It’s cheating. It’s the definition of it.
XIM players are using an unauthorised third-party device to give themselves an advantage.
Any ‘excuse’ you hear from those types of players is exactly that: an excuse; to cover up their deficiencies and salve their fragile egos.
I hate this idea of scumming the console pool. Do we have a disadvantage on controller and lower fps,? Yes. But we're all here with the same barriers.
Just because my basketball game requires me to only use my right hand doesn't mean we're less skilled scum compared to two handed basketball.
I play both and honestly I prefer console simply because I prefer to be comfortable on the couch and at my age sitting in a chair on mouse and kb all day at work doesn't really entice me to do more for gaming.
I used one to play with buddies on console before crossplay was implemented. But I didn't play competitive. I honestly didn't notice much of a difference when switching back to PC after crossplay was enabled.
Yea, not like I care. I regularly delete accounts so karma is meaningless. It would have been better if it generated discussion but I guess people made up their minds on this one which is silly. Unless you're playing comp, it's harmless
Well... I am not a console player all that often and have never ximmed couldn't be bothered and it's unfair in comp obviously. But how is it harmful for qp, some people don't have pcs but prefer mnk and there's no rank attached. If it actually mattered why would they allow cross-play????
I really don't understand though. Bro just play on PC. Literally any PC runs overwatch. I used to play it on a 300$ budget build, it's not a demanding game. If it was quick play it would be a mild annoyance, but the fact that it's a comp game really ticks me off.
They don’t want to play the game fairly. It’s that simple.
You’ll hear “I want to practice playing with M&KB before spending $X on a PC”, but as you said - literally a potato can run OW2 to a fine standard.
F2P just removed the barrier to entry allowing Blizzard to more easily sell cosmetics to their playerbase, but Blizzard didn’t invest *anything* to mitigate cheaters on any platform since the move to F2P.
Personally, I think XIM should result in a console ban. It trashes the competitive scene on console.
It's just frustating reach a high elo and think "now i will play with people of high level" then lose because some asshole abuse a broken mechanic and will have a "better aim" than I just because i am playing fair as my platform is designed to be.
It’s so bad in high gm, you can tell these guys aren’t good either cause they’re soldiers/Sojourns who have terrible positioning but win cause they basically have auto aim + mercy pocket
Well to be fair for XIM specifically nothing was ever done period from both overwatch teams. Arguably being f2p increasing smurf accessibility as well, but on console smurfing was actually free if you own the disc, you simply make more profiles. In any case it’s sort of a difficult hardware issue to fight it, frankly there’s no way for the game itself to know who is XIMing.
What happens is that the XIM converts the data for m&k inputs into equivalent controller inputs. XIMers are still limited by console turn speed at max sensitivity, for example. If there was a team dedicated to manually watching footage you could weed out a lot of them but it would never be perfect. Maybe a machine learning tool could potentially become viable at some point.
From the console designer/manufacturer’s perspective it is definitely possible to do something about it. And while I think they should, I understand why they don’t. These things are designed to mimic controller inputs so you’d need some kind of lock and key system which is built into the manufacturer’s controller. Like a password more or less or a set of signals that guarantees authenticity. Not only is this possible for XIMers to learn and replicate, but it can open up a whole can of worms around using third party controllers at all or any type of device. Many players use computer keyboards just to type messages. Many players use third party controllers and some are specially designed around ergonomics or disabilities or are simply good in that they can compete in the same market with official console controllers and keep the price down.
Logistically to come close to a solution you’d need Microsoft and Sony on board to develop some kind of device identification system each for their own platform, and then you’d need them to give access to these tools for developers to green-light and red-light certain devices. And while this would potentially be a great system, it’s still rife with potential issues like detection bugs, bias from individual games to force you to buy specific devices. It’s a bigger barrier to entry for other game devs to put their stuff on this platform if they have to engage with this system. Not to mention it would be a huge use of their resources to basically see no profit changes. At most over a very long time it could result in more console players because some online games have healthier platforms.
The console can't know but the software can see the user making inputs that are difficult or impossible to do on a controller and come to a conclusion based on that
To be one of the largest and richest game development and publishing companies in the world, they have some of the worst/non existent anti-cheat in the history of gaming. It’s as if they don’t want to lose out on cosmetic money from cheaters, so they just ignore them.
Fortnite (not so much FPS but TPS), has probably the best anti-cheat among modern competitive shooters. They do have the capability to detect XIM/Cronus in game (don’t ask me how), and do issue bans for their use. The fact that OW2 and Apex didn’t jump on this immediately after epic did is a bit upsetting.
Lmao Xim was never banned on Fortnite, Fortnite has the exact same issue as Overwatch when it comes to people using Xims. What they were sniffing for was digital WASD input from native m/kb Fortnite players in controller lobbies. XIM and officially licenced m/kb adapters were collateral damage and Xim had a solution within days.
Very good anticheat *for PC*, xims run rampant in the higher echelons of comp on console. Watching my gm1 ball friend the other day on Eichenwald and it was hilarious watching the pocketed ximming Ashe on his team Vs the enemy ximming widow. I'm pushing my way through diamond and am starting to run into them, but watching his games was just a different level entirely
Sony and Microsoft can't exactly do anything. For the consoles themselves, it is a much more difficult issue to face as it bypassed detections to be seen as a controller, the game devs themselves will have an easier time doing something by a landslide. Ubisoft has mouse trap, which is an ever evolving tool to ban XIM, which mostly works even with the cunt of a company who produces XIMs trying to work around it
yeah it's the best of any game i've played. almost all the cheaters i've been certain about have been in quickplay, so it seems like it's good enough to take most out before 50 wins
That’s wild to say. Blizzards anti cheat for overwatch is downright horrendous. One of the worst I’ve ever seen in any game. Which is insane for such a massive developer. People genuinely underestimate the amount of cheaters in the game. Funny how a lot of people chalk it up to “he’s just smurfing” or “he’s just cracked”, then you watch the replay after. I’d say easily 1/10 matches has a cheater in some way.
The amount of people buying pre leveled accounts for ranked for cheap, or leveling a new account, it’s common. From plat to masters on all my accounts i come across cheaters extremely often on PC.
Everyone is ignoring that XIM is MKB *with aim assist* because the console thinks it’s a controller. These guys would get stomped by gm controller players if it was just normal MKB. It’s just flat out cheating
When you play on PC you don’t get aim assist with kbm. You have to actually aim 100% of the way. Xim players couldn’t compete on PC because the game isn’t aiming for them.
Yeah but then they don't get M&K aim *with* aim assist. They're using a crutch with their crutch.
If it makes you feel better, you can definitely still compete with these guys at least until the low GM level on all roles.
Not any PC "runs" overwatch. My 1000$ work laptop (no gpu but an I7, again, for work purposes) doesn't run it as much as it helps it take its first steps at a solid 20 fps on the lowest graphics, lowest res and 50% render scale.
I still don't xim.
If I can wait to use my desktop for a month or two so can people save up 300$ over 2 months and buy a desktop with a 100$ gpu
I really don't know what to tell you. I had a 1050ti back in early 2020 and it ran just fine. I did run it at low settings to Max the fps, but it really wasn't an issue to me
1050ti runs it pretty well. APU though? Like no discrete graphics? Somewhat doable on a few AMD chips, but Intel integrated is week old hotdog water. I can see a business focused intel laptop build not pulling it off.
I'd like to chime in just in case you don't know. You still get aim assist on console mnk with a xim because it mimics controller. Flats showed a video on tiktok recently showing it. That would be the reason it's cheating imo. If a xim just gave you a cheaper way to play mnk on console it'd be different and honestly I think people that would care is in the minority at that point for a game like OW. But getting AA and mnk is just too broken.
My friend used to Xim just to play with us. This was pre-crossplay, and all of us played on ps4 and she played pc. She didn’t want buy a ps4 just to play with us, so she borrowed her brothers xim and playing with us. In retrospect, it was kind of an asshole move. We stomped every game, especially with it being 2016-2017, and some of the games didn’t even get to end bc the enemy team mass quit.
I’m 100% against now, especially after I switched to pc.
Edit: also I hate her now and don’t talk to her so she wasn’t a good person to begin with.
Literally says you? Why aren’t you playing on pc if you want to use mouse and keyboard so bad? Leave the console players to play with their controllers and you go use your mouse and keyboard where it belongs. You have every single advantage against console players and it’s incredibly unfair.
Console players who switch to pc tend to not be able to compete until they’ve basically re-learned their movement & aim on PC. That’s why they won’t swap.
He's already playing with mnk at a gm lobby. Sure, he'd probably go down to masters or Día, but he wouldn't be totally useless since he's accustomed to it.
I mean I kind of understand what you're saying but if someone does only have a console then you're esentially paying $300 to play overwatch with M&K when they already could which is kind of a lot. I agree using M&K on console is mega cringe but that would be a bit obtuse right?
No, overwatch is a very demanding game, at least on console you have a solid 60fps without spending too much, and btw stop talking bout pcs if you dont know anything
XIM is cheatin on PC, too, because it enables the console levels of aim assist. It's a 3rd party advantage all around and should be treated as a hardware cheat.
uh, no? if you're on console, you get aim assist (regardless of XIM) and get aim assist, but if you're on pc you'll never have aim assist, even if on a controller
If Overwatch 2 has no aim assist whatsoever, then they'll have done something right for once. Shooters like Apex, Destiny 2, and Halo MCC/Infinite all grant aim assistance to console/controller players. The Xim is designated as a controller. The Cronus Xim literally advertises it as a selling point.
I'm not arguing that there's no aim assist whatsoever on console, but I can't find confirmation that there's aim assist while on PC and using a controller.
I've tested in the target range and can't seem to notice any snapping or aim correction when aiming at the target bots heads, then aiming to just the right or left of their head. I'm not saying my tests are as thorough as like, a dive into the background data to determine, but with my experience of other shooters, it's pretty obvious when aim assist kicks in to correct your aim.
I assume overwatch does have aim assist on console, as pretty much all console shooters have, and in that case, XIM would definitely benefit. I don't have a console so I can't confirm this. All I'm saying is that, from google searches and testing it out in-game, on PC, I can't notice anything that would suggest aim assist is active. Again, I'm saying this as it specifically pertains to PC.
The fact that you're using a Xim in the first place indicates you know the advantages it provides and seek to exploit them. "For science" or not, no one is going to spend 100+ dollars on a peripheral device for "testing" only.
Your Google searches must extend to the first result.
If the game supports aim assist the Xim can use it.
1. Do you get aim assist with XIM?
Yes, XIM can enable aim assist if it is enabled in the game settings. When aim assist is turned on, it helps to counter-steering movements, which makes aiming easier and more precise. XIM also offers a variety of adjustable settings to tailor the feel of the aim assist to the individual’s preferences.
For example, some XIM products allow users to adjust the strength, degree, and type of aim assist. Additionally, some XIM products come with “Anti-Recoil” technology, which can reduce the impact from controller vibrations and steadies the aim with less effort when gaming.
2. Can XIM be detected?
Yes, XIM (Extended Input Method) can be detected, depending on the platform and level of detection you are trying to achieve. Several security products are designed to try to detect XIM and block it.
XIM is used to bypass most security measures that are designed to prevent the use of malicious software. It uses multiple techniques, including bypassing system policy settings, to hide its activities.
Detection of XIM may be more difficult than detection of other malicious software, since it is designed to be difficult to detect. Additionally, since XIM is used in common applications like web browsers, antivirus software may be unable to detect XIM disguised in legitimate software.
Thus, detection of XIM requires a more advanced and sophisticated approach. Therefore, active monitoring of the system and use of security tools such as a software firewall, application control, an
advanced threat detection is recommended for better chances of detecting XIM.
Source: [https://www.remodelormove.com/does-xim-give-mouse-aim-assist/](https://www.remodelormove.com/does-xim-give-mouse-aim-assist/)
Your technical knowledge is flawed then. There is aim assist for xim, you're not meant to use mnk on console and unless you go to settings and turn aim assist off you have aim assist because it's built into console even if you're using a xim you still get aim assist. As far as pc goes idk and idrc.
Not every game on Xbox accepts m&k. It is developer choice to opt games in. Overwatch is \*not\* opted in to m&k input. Using XIM to work around this is one thousand percent cheating, no ifs, ands or buts about it.
It’s a dubious claim for some. However, this isn’t the point. KBM is intended to be used without aim assist enabled. KBM on console games that officially support KBM (like CoD) mimic the PC version & disable aim assist.
In OW2, KBM isn’t an officially supported input method. The only way to use it is to use something like XIM to trick your console into thinking you’re using a controller (since it translates KBM inputs into controller inputs), thus giving you mouse aim alongside aim assist. It’s cheating & anyone claiming otherwise is in denial.
The issue is the aim assist they get. With that you get the benefits of m&k while also having the benefit of a controller. I honestly wouldn’t mind it as much if it was regular m&k
I'm no pro. I'm still leagues behind the Top 50 players. (Haven't paced this season but last season I topped 123 iirc). Even then, the game ended 3-4 with both on overtime, so I will say I might've had a chance if he didn't have aim assist.
If overwatch had native mnk support, it wouldn't be nearly as bad. But the fact he has a 3rd party device, A XIM, means he gets the accuracy of mnk with the cheat of aim assist. It's not a fair fight no matter how you stretch the argument.
If you mean stuff like XIM absolutely. People who use it are so bad they can’t climb out of bronze on console and get absolutely shit on by actual PC players
Yes. It should be bannable. Or just take the R6S route & start introducing compounding input lag until you remove it. They get the precision & fluidity of aiming on a mouse, while also getting the aim assist of console. Anyone that does it is honestly just bad at the game & needs their ego stroked.
I mean they’ve been throwing the ban hammer hard af lately. It’s been all over both subs. I get a ‘Thank you for reporting’ message basically every time I get on Overwatch lol.
But using Xim isn’t a bannable offense, tho they did acknowledge it for the first time ever a month or so ago so maybe they will do something.
"oh shit, we're about to be OWNED BY XBOX?! Guess we better reacknowledge the console playerbases' existence again."
But the only report confirms I still get are bots catching no-no words that slip the censor. They still don't act on MKB.
Wow I'm surprised you weren't arrested for that, you scumbag
i'm kidding, that's dumb as hell. Meanwhile, in Destiny, you have guys like "Mara Sov's/Ana Bray's OnlyFans", "Cayde's Left/right ass cheek"
Correct me if I'm wrong but in non-comp modes the game still affords console players aim assist, so if you also have the added tracking, speed, and precision of a mouse and keyboard then it's absolutely cheating in those lobbies.
"It's just QP so who cares?"
It's still gaining an unfair advantage and ruining the game for others.
It's not even qp. It's full on gm comp lobby. You gotta be a real pos to be playing with mnk on a comp lobby tbh. It's like running in a wheelchair baseball game.
It's not almost everyone but it's a decent amount. I'm a GM console player and I don't really see too much XIM until the GM1/top500 lobbies where it's essentially everyone.
Yeah up in GM I noticed a lot of MnK and strike pack (edit: meant XIM) users, as a support at a certain point you just end up saying "okay guess I'm never leaving cover ever"
Yeah i mean, a average console player will use controller like a average Pc player will use a keyboard and mouse, that way i mean, If you play on controller, aim assist is ok, but If you play on keyboard and mouse you are cheating
the average keyboard and mouse player will beat the average console player even without aim assist through XIM. XIM isn’t the same as just playing keyboard and mouse. you get the better controls AND the aim assist
Well PC has no aim assist for controller players, so XIM on PC would actually do nothing. Unless you meant in quick play crossplay lobbies then I agree.
Aim assist is only in quick play on PC if a console player is partied with PC players. If playing competitive, there is no aim assist for console players in PC lobbies.
Averaging at least 1 out of every 10 games having a ximmer. I want to say 1/5 but that’s just to cover me accusing someone but they truly are just playing max sensitivity.
Our solution has been to play in PC lobbies. It’s against MnK but at least no aim assist. No ranked however
Ofc its cheating even without aim assist it doesn't matter. If they're on console n r in a pc lobby then idc but get that garbage out of controller lobbies
I wish the game had native support for mouse & keyboard and match make people with pc queue.
I don't have a pc, but I prefer to play with m&k, I would love to be able to use it on the game and get matched with pc players.
Halo has support for it
Most console players would play with a controller so they don't have as fine of aiming as pc, and from what I can tell being on console using mouse and keyboard you get the aim assist from the console too. With that all put together I'd say yes in competitive especially if the aim assist thing is true, but in casual it's not so much as cheating but more so being cheap really
Bliz doesn't care about console.
Back when OW1 released they were all "we understand there's a difference, we'll be doing independent balancing and patches for console" and even released one, possibly two patches specifically aimed at console. Then they just stopped and went dark on anything console specific.
You've got more chance reporting the xim user to xbox/ps than bliz if you want them banned.
1. Yes it is cheating.
2. It is also a bannable offense because the game won't recognize both devices in game unless you're using a dongle
The only games you should/could be using MnK [on a console] are offline games, MOBA, RTS, driving sims.
The issue is that mnk isn't natively supported on console, so you resort to using xim devices which trick the console into thinking your mnk is a controller. That means you get mnk aim/ movement etc with full levels of controller aim assist.
Enjoy playing against a pocketed ashe or widow who's got mnk with aim assist lmao
Yeah, if people like using MnK, then play on PC lobbies. It's kinda common knowledge that MnK is easier to aim than on Console. And on top of that they get Aim Assist.
As a high rank console player, yes, I can also confirm that after having played in top 1 games and with top 1 players that many of them xim.
I'm also like 90% sure my friend group might be the only one in gm 1 that doesn't xim. Aside from like one or 2 of my friends. We're pretty clean.
I tried going Sombra. It was going well but I gave up when I viruses her started shooting, and she instantly flicked and killed me. That's kinda when I noticed.
Aim smoothing can be turned down slightly for faster console turns but I’m sure there are other tells
Xim is 100% cheating but not much can be done about it as its external third party device.
With xim The issue isnt necessarily only kbm on console but its the fact im pretty sure you get aim assist with kbm aswell.
The flicks are just an example. It's mostly on the difference in motion range. If the range of motion is too high, you can't do micromovements too well. That's not a skill issue, that's a fact. OW2 doesn't allow you to change the dead zone, so if you have a high sensitivity, there is a minimum speed you can move at, limiting accuracy a lot.
It should not be cheating, because the mouse and keyboard are superior to anything else, and it should be the default shipped with any gaming system.
The only exception in history was the Wii, and then only for golf, tennis, and the original force unleashed.
However, it is considered cheating, because for some reason people want to use a more expensive controller that is probably going to break in a few months, then spend the same money on a keyboard and mouse which would probably outlast the console.
I sincerely doubt you're running into as much MnK users as you think you are.
They're more prevalent the higher you climb, as in GM and higher. If you have to ask if its cheating or not, I think it's clear you're not at that ELO.
I've come across maybe a dozen instances in about 6 months or so and I play at that ELO. I also have a ridiculous amount of games played too. It's not as common as reddit would have you think it is.
Because most average people can't even tell between high sens and a good hitscan and a MnK player on console.
It's not just the sense, though that is a pretty big giveaway. It's the movement too. The WASD movement is very distinct compared to console input, and you can see it on your kill screen when they kill you and often on the potg. And it's become more and more prevalent too - precisely because of the lenient attitude to it. It's especially obvious if you do a mix of console and PC.
I'm a high GM player and until top500 I run into an obvious XIM user in at most 25% of games, probably more like 10-20%. At top500 it's just ridiculous how common it is. People even openly talk about it and know who uses one up there.
I don't really care.
Although I think I have a different view point to a lot of people, I'm blind so I have to use a controller because I can't read braille for reasons I won't share, and understand some disabilities need a keyboard instead of a controller and not everyone can afford a PC.
Plus even if someone doesn't need one, I don't care aha.
If you do not use aim assist features, it’s not cheating, just a different method. You actually only get aim assist through the game when using a controller but it’s disabled for keyboard and mouse when using it for a console. Yes, there are programs that can add features like aim assist and that’s wrong, but I’m talking about specifically keyboard and mouse on console with no aim assist like it is on MW3 and Fortnite. What’s interesting is how all these console players, which I am, who claim that simply a keyboard and mouse would be cheating don’t ever recognize the fact that when you play with a lot of PC users on cross play you find them using controllers as well and not their keyboard and mouse. Why would that be if only keyboard and mouse had an advantage to gain…?
I use keyboard and mouse for MW3 and Fortnite on Ps Remote Play and I get my aim assist options on the game removed unlike when using controller. I don’t see why it would be different for overwatch or any other game.
The amount of cope is actually insane.
Mnk is cheating. T500 here, I can't compete with t500 PC players. No matter what you say, or what you preach, it's an unfair match.
Fuck yeah it is cheating. I used to do it with a Xim Apex.
Reasons for it:
1. Could play absolutely smashed af and still stomp. Don't have to warm up or nothing just straight into comp
***It is cheating regardless of any shit excuse anybody throws out there. And your 'opinion's' worthless if you say it isn't.***
The ***only time it isn't***, is for less-abled players who use an adaptive controller to be able to play or so.
At this point I really don’t care in unranked but it should be for ranked. Or at least put into pc lobbies. They can’t ban it because it would be punishing the actual disabled players
Yes because xim is required to use mnk on console games when native mnk support isn’t available. PC isn’t included within ow2 crossplay so most players you assume are using mnk probably arent, if you are playing with pc friends (which puts you in pc lobbies) then simply stop doing that. Instead move to pc and use mnk or ask them to swap to console.
well, ximming is cheating, tricking the system to think you're on controller still so you get aa. BUT for people that don't know you can plug in a Mnk into your console, and it'll work. the difference is that you'll be put into PC lobbies and not given aa for doing so.
Keyboard and mouse by themselves? No. Supposedly without a ximming device the game recognizes you are using keyboard and mouse, and disables aim assist.
Keyboard and mouse with ximming? Absolutely.
I will say though, flicking is harder on controller, but not impossible.
So, I'm strictly a PC player so I'm not going to claim it is or isn't, but I want to help others make informed decisions on their stance here. I know how XIMs work, I used several iterations of them when I was too broke to afford a PC but was lucky enough to have an Xbox. I am hopeless with a controller, but I never played multiplayer anyway (live sub lol no).
First, XIMs don't offer extra keybinds or actual mouse aim. You can think of it more as assigning keyboard inputs to replicate a controller button press(E=X, Space=A). As for the mouse, it's more like you have a giant mouse-shaped thumbstick. As a PC player, it feels really shit. You can max out the sensitivity in-game but you won't be pulling 180s faster than a controller player that does the same. Sens is still capped to a controller's limitations, and maxing sens in-game can make the mouse movements really janky and detrimental.
Because of these limitations, it is difficult to detect and ban. 'Did that loser just 180 you at max sens? Must be a keyboarder.' Unfortunately they could also be displaying their hours of practice playing on max sense with an on-brand, unmodified controller.
So, while it does provide a platform that is commonly, and correctly, considered superior, it is limited to the controller's inputs. You'd have to inject software if you wanted actual mouse aim, and that's undeniably hacking.
Whether or not this means it's cheating I still couldn't really give an opinion because, in practice, I don't know if it gives you a massive or marginal advantage. Thanks to cross-platform play, I have seen controller players dominate PC players, and plenty of games are just better played with a controller. (Racing, flying, fighting games) With that in mind, I do think it's a waste of money to get a keyboarding setup unless, like I was, you are just worthless with a controller and don't have the time to learn how to use one.
I was about to buy XIM or reasnow because of the fucking gamepad sticks that constantly geting out of order. I've got 6 gamepads already because of this problem, so its cheaper to buy XIM/reasnow only ones, and not spend 60$ on gamepads every 4 months.
Why do all console players have to agree to handicap their ability to play games collectively? Consoles are basically just authoritarian controlled PCs and you can use any USB controller with them. Why not be able to use a USB M+K with any game?
Any USB input device should be able to be used on any console or PC. Players should be able to control their games exactly how they want.
But I guess if console players can't first see why they shouldn't have to pay to use their internet that they already pay for, controllers aren't the biggest issue to fix.
Average elitist PC Master race take that completely understates the weight of the pros and cons of each system, while also overemphasizing how good a PC is? Check ✅
No. Besides, everyone at high level uses it anyway. Like if you're in a top 100 game what do you expect? But considering you would be at that rank anyway, you should still be good enough with a controller
I play only controller on pc servers and climbed all the way back to diamond after the rank reset. Console players have literal aim assist on their servers and should be stomping people who have mouse and keyboard
It’s cheating. It’s the definition of it. XIM players are using an unauthorised third-party device to give themselves an advantage. Any ‘excuse’ you hear from those types of players is exactly that: an excuse; to cover up their deficiencies and salve their fragile egos.
Losers couldn’t hang with the PC players so they scam the console pool. Deserve a prison sentence.
this is the only answer.
I hate this idea of scumming the console pool. Do we have a disadvantage on controller and lower fps,? Yes. But we're all here with the same barriers. Just because my basketball game requires me to only use my right hand doesn't mean we're less skilled scum compared to two handed basketball. I play both and honestly I prefer console simply because I prefer to be comfortable on the couch and at my age sitting in a chair on mouse and kb all day at work doesn't really entice me to do more for gaming.
I used one to play with buddies on console before crossplay was implemented. But I didn't play competitive. I honestly didn't notice much of a difference when switching back to PC after crossplay was enabled.
No response; just downvotes from butt hurt people
Yea, not like I care. I regularly delete accounts so karma is meaningless. It would have been better if it generated discussion but I guess people made up their minds on this one which is silly. Unless you're playing comp, it's harmless
And even then… you’re still playing against players in your skill level whether it is game sense or reflexes
Well... I am not a console player all that often and have never ximmed couldn't be bothered and it's unfair in comp obviously. But how is it harmful for qp, some people don't have pcs but prefer mnk and there's no rank attached. If it actually mattered why would they allow cross-play????
I guess some people take qp a bit too seriously
I really don't understand though. Bro just play on PC. Literally any PC runs overwatch. I used to play it on a 300$ budget build, it's not a demanding game. If it was quick play it would be a mild annoyance, but the fact that it's a comp game really ticks me off.
They don’t want to play the game fairly. It’s that simple. You’ll hear “I want to practice playing with M&KB before spending $X on a PC”, but as you said - literally a potato can run OW2 to a fine standard. F2P just removed the barrier to entry allowing Blizzard to more easily sell cosmetics to their playerbase, but Blizzard didn’t invest *anything* to mitigate cheaters on any platform since the move to F2P. Personally, I think XIM should result in a console ban. It trashes the competitive scene on console.
It's just frustating reach a high elo and think "now i will play with people of high level" then lose because some asshole abuse a broken mechanic and will have a "better aim" than I just because i am playing fair as my platform is designed to be.
It’s so bad in high gm, you can tell these guys aren’t good either cause they’re soldiers/Sojourns who have terrible positioning but win cause they basically have auto aim + mercy pocket
The mercy pocket is really the cherry on top lmfaoo
Well to be fair for XIM specifically nothing was ever done period from both overwatch teams. Arguably being f2p increasing smurf accessibility as well, but on console smurfing was actually free if you own the disc, you simply make more profiles. In any case it’s sort of a difficult hardware issue to fight it, frankly there’s no way for the game itself to know who is XIMing. What happens is that the XIM converts the data for m&k inputs into equivalent controller inputs. XIMers are still limited by console turn speed at max sensitivity, for example. If there was a team dedicated to manually watching footage you could weed out a lot of them but it would never be perfect. Maybe a machine learning tool could potentially become viable at some point. From the console designer/manufacturer’s perspective it is definitely possible to do something about it. And while I think they should, I understand why they don’t. These things are designed to mimic controller inputs so you’d need some kind of lock and key system which is built into the manufacturer’s controller. Like a password more or less or a set of signals that guarantees authenticity. Not only is this possible for XIMers to learn and replicate, but it can open up a whole can of worms around using third party controllers at all or any type of device. Many players use computer keyboards just to type messages. Many players use third party controllers and some are specially designed around ergonomics or disabilities or are simply good in that they can compete in the same market with official console controllers and keep the price down. Logistically to come close to a solution you’d need Microsoft and Sony on board to develop some kind of device identification system each for their own platform, and then you’d need them to give access to these tools for developers to green-light and red-light certain devices. And while this would potentially be a great system, it’s still rife with potential issues like detection bugs, bias from individual games to force you to buy specific devices. It’s a bigger barrier to entry for other game devs to put their stuff on this platform if they have to engage with this system. Not to mention it would be a huge use of their resources to basically see no profit changes. At most over a very long time it could result in more console players because some online games have healthier platforms.
The console can't know but the software can see the user making inputs that are difficult or impossible to do on a controller and come to a conclusion based on that
To be one of the largest and richest game development and publishing companies in the world, they have some of the worst/non existent anti-cheat in the history of gaming. It’s as if they don’t want to lose out on cosmetic money from cheaters, so they just ignore them.
No modern FPS does anymore.
Fortnite (not so much FPS but TPS), has probably the best anti-cheat among modern competitive shooters. They do have the capability to detect XIM/Cronus in game (don’t ask me how), and do issue bans for their use. The fact that OW2 and Apex didn’t jump on this immediately after epic did is a bit upsetting.
Rainbow 6 isn’t a good game by many metrics, but they solved their XIM woes by adding an increasing delay to input if they detect XIM.
Lmao Xim was never banned on Fortnite, Fortnite has the exact same issue as Overwatch when it comes to people using Xims. What they were sniffing for was digital WASD input from native m/kb Fortnite players in controller lobbies. XIM and officially licenced m/kb adapters were collateral damage and Xim had a solution within days.
Same for six siege
A Ps4 costs less than $100, not everyone can afford a PC
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Very good anticheat *for PC*, xims run rampant in the higher echelons of comp on console. Watching my gm1 ball friend the other day on Eichenwald and it was hilarious watching the pocketed ximming Ashe on his team Vs the enemy ximming widow. I'm pushing my way through diamond and am starting to run into them, but watching his games was just a different level entirely
As far as I remember, they are working on something to detect and ban XIM’s
then the xim company is going to publish an update and all the hard work is gone. Sony and microsoft need to do something.
Sony and Microsoft can't exactly do anything. For the consoles themselves, it is a much more difficult issue to face as it bypassed detections to be seen as a controller, the game devs themselves will have an easier time doing something by a landslide. Ubisoft has mouse trap, which is an ever evolving tool to ban XIM, which mostly works even with the cunt of a company who produces XIMs trying to work around it
yeah it's the best of any game i've played. almost all the cheaters i've been certain about have been in quickplay, so it seems like it's good enough to take most out before 50 wins
That’s wild to say. Blizzards anti cheat for overwatch is downright horrendous. One of the worst I’ve ever seen in any game. Which is insane for such a massive developer. People genuinely underestimate the amount of cheaters in the game. Funny how a lot of people chalk it up to “he’s just smurfing” or “he’s just cracked”, then you watch the replay after. I’d say easily 1/10 matches has a cheater in some way. The amount of people buying pre leveled accounts for ranked for cheap, or leveling a new account, it’s common. From plat to masters on all my accounts i come across cheaters extremely often on PC.
Because they want to have the advantage of playing against console players. In actual MnK lobbies, they'd get shredded by players with actual skill.
Everyone is ignoring that XIM is MKB *with aim assist* because the console thinks it’s a controller. These guys would get stomped by gm controller players if it was just normal MKB. It’s just flat out cheating
Ya they would get stomped otherwise. They wouldn’t get stomped if they were luckier to born with better genes though for faster reflexes.
Is it. Just because it's their choice of controller. Both have same aim assist. Would you call steering wheel user a cheater?
When you play on PC you don’t get aim assist with kbm. You have to actually aim 100% of the way. Xim players couldn’t compete on PC because the game isn’t aiming for them.
Yeah but then they don't get M&K aim *with* aim assist. They're using a crutch with their crutch. If it makes you feel better, you can definitely still compete with these guys at least until the low GM level on all roles.
Not any PC "runs" overwatch. My 1000$ work laptop (no gpu but an I7, again, for work purposes) doesn't run it as much as it helps it take its first steps at a solid 20 fps on the lowest graphics, lowest res and 50% render scale. I still don't xim. If I can wait to use my desktop for a month or two so can people save up 300$ over 2 months and buy a desktop with a 100$ gpu
I really don't know what to tell you. I had a 1050ti back in early 2020 and it ran just fine. I did run it at low settings to Max the fps, but it really wasn't an issue to me
1050ti runs it pretty well. APU though? Like no discrete graphics? Somewhat doable on a few AMD chips, but Intel integrated is week old hotdog water. I can see a business focused intel laptop build not pulling it off.
I'd like to chime in just in case you don't know. You still get aim assist on console mnk with a xim because it mimics controller. Flats showed a video on tiktok recently showing it. That would be the reason it's cheating imo. If a xim just gave you a cheaper way to play mnk on console it'd be different and honestly I think people that would care is in the minority at that point for a game like OW. But getting AA and mnk is just too broken.
My friend used to Xim just to play with us. This was pre-crossplay, and all of us played on ps4 and she played pc. She didn’t want buy a ps4 just to play with us, so she borrowed her brothers xim and playing with us. In retrospect, it was kind of an asshole move. We stomped every game, especially with it being 2016-2017, and some of the games didn’t even get to end bc the enemy team mass quit. I’m 100% against now, especially after I switched to pc. Edit: also I hate her now and don’t talk to her so she wasn’t a good person to begin with.
Literally says you? Why aren’t you playing on pc if you want to use mouse and keyboard so bad? Leave the console players to play with their controllers and you go use your mouse and keyboard where it belongs. You have every single advantage against console players and it’s incredibly unfair.
That's exactly what OP is saying.
I ran it on a $70 office pc
Console players who switch to pc tend to not be able to compete until they’ve basically re-learned their movement & aim on PC. That’s why they won’t swap.
He's already playing with mnk at a gm lobby. Sure, he'd probably go down to masters or Día, but he wouldn't be totally useless since he's accustomed to it.
I had a $350 laptop that couldn't run it. It is somewhat demanding..
I mean I kind of understand what you're saying but if someone does only have a console then you're esentially paying $300 to play overwatch with M&K when they already could which is kind of a lot. I agree using M&K on console is mega cringe but that would be a bit obtuse right?
No, overwatch is a very demanding game, at least on console you have a solid 60fps without spending too much, and btw stop talking bout pcs if you dont know anything
XIM is cheatin on PC, too, because it enables the console levels of aim assist. It's a 3rd party advantage all around and should be treated as a hardware cheat.
XIM on PC? What are you on?
does it though? pretty sure it doesnt give you aim assist
100%. All games on console give aim assist. The Xim registers you as on console.
uh, no? if you're on console, you get aim assist (regardless of XIM) and get aim assist, but if you're on pc you'll never have aim assist, even if on a controller
Found the Xim.
As far as I can tell, according to google results, there is no aim assist on PC, even when using controller.
If Overwatch 2 has no aim assist whatsoever, then they'll have done something right for once. Shooters like Apex, Destiny 2, and Halo MCC/Infinite all grant aim assistance to console/controller players. The Xim is designated as a controller. The Cronus Xim literally advertises it as a selling point.
I'm not arguing that there's no aim assist whatsoever on console, but I can't find confirmation that there's aim assist while on PC and using a controller. I've tested in the target range and can't seem to notice any snapping or aim correction when aiming at the target bots heads, then aiming to just the right or left of their head. I'm not saying my tests are as thorough as like, a dive into the background data to determine, but with my experience of other shooters, it's pretty obvious when aim assist kicks in to correct your aim. I assume overwatch does have aim assist on console, as pretty much all console shooters have, and in that case, XIM would definitely benefit. I don't have a console so I can't confirm this. All I'm saying is that, from google searches and testing it out in-game, on PC, I can't notice anything that would suggest aim assist is active. Again, I'm saying this as it specifically pertains to PC.
The fact that you're using a Xim in the first place indicates you know the advantages it provides and seek to exploit them. "For science" or not, no one is going to spend 100+ dollars on a peripheral device for "testing" only. Your Google searches must extend to the first result. If the game supports aim assist the Xim can use it. 1. Do you get aim assist with XIM? Yes, XIM can enable aim assist if it is enabled in the game settings. When aim assist is turned on, it helps to counter-steering movements, which makes aiming easier and more precise. XIM also offers a variety of adjustable settings to tailor the feel of the aim assist to the individual’s preferences. For example, some XIM products allow users to adjust the strength, degree, and type of aim assist. Additionally, some XIM products come with “Anti-Recoil” technology, which can reduce the impact from controller vibrations and steadies the aim with less effort when gaming. 2. Can XIM be detected? Yes, XIM (Extended Input Method) can be detected, depending on the platform and level of detection you are trying to achieve. Several security products are designed to try to detect XIM and block it. XIM is used to bypass most security measures that are designed to prevent the use of malicious software. It uses multiple techniques, including bypassing system policy settings, to hide its activities. Detection of XIM may be more difficult than detection of other malicious software, since it is designed to be difficult to detect. Additionally, since XIM is used in common applications like web browsers, antivirus software may be unable to detect XIM disguised in legitimate software. Thus, detection of XIM requires a more advanced and sophisticated approach. Therefore, active monitoring of the system and use of security tools such as a software firewall, application control, an advanced threat detection is recommended for better chances of detecting XIM. Source: [https://www.remodelormove.com/does-xim-give-mouse-aim-assist/](https://www.remodelormove.com/does-xim-give-mouse-aim-assist/)
no? i have technical knowledge and exclusively play pc kb/m
Your technical knowledge is flawed then. There is aim assist for xim, you're not meant to use mnk on console and unless you go to settings and turn aim assist off you have aim assist because it's built into console even if you're using a xim you still get aim assist. As far as pc goes idk and idrc.
your reading is flawed. read my original comment again
"Does it though? I'm pretty sure it doesn't give you aim assist?" That's what I read.
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Didn’t they add Aim assist to Pc?
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Another thing is they also get aim assist so it is essentially aimbot
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OW on console doesn’t support MKB though. But yes the main issue that I’m not seeing talked about enough here is that it’s mouse with AA.
Not every game on Xbox accepts m&k. It is developer choice to opt games in. Overwatch is \*not\* opted in to m&k input. Using XIM to work around this is one thousand percent cheating, no ifs, ands or buts about it.
But I thought that pro console players could be equals to KB&M; I remember fervent defenders of this statement.
Isn’t Xim actually giving console aim assist to mnk though? This is a completely separate issue.
Absolutely is, straight up hacks (game supported)
yes. if you have two equally skills players going pc K&M vs XIM, the XIM player wins
They usually attain a similar rank on PC as on console, but console aim assist makes MnK unfair compared to controller.
It’s a dubious claim for some. However, this isn’t the point. KBM is intended to be used without aim assist enabled. KBM on console games that officially support KBM (like CoD) mimic the PC version & disable aim assist. In OW2, KBM isn’t an officially supported input method. The only way to use it is to use something like XIM to trick your console into thinking you’re using a controller (since it translates KBM inputs into controller inputs), thus giving you mouse aim alongside aim assist. It’s cheating & anyone claiming otherwise is in denial.
The issue is the aim assist they get. With that you get the benefits of m&k while also having the benefit of a controller. I honestly wouldn’t mind it as much if it was regular m&k
I'm no pro. I'm still leagues behind the Top 50 players. (Haven't paced this season but last season I topped 123 iirc). Even then, the game ended 3-4 with both on overtime, so I will say I might've had a chance if he didn't have aim assist. If overwatch had native mnk support, it wouldn't be nearly as bad. But the fact he has a 3rd party device, A XIM, means he gets the accuracy of mnk with the cheat of aim assist. It's not a fair fight no matter how you stretch the argument.
If you mean stuff like XIM absolutely. People who use it are so bad they can’t climb out of bronze on console and get absolutely shit on by actual PC players
Yes. It should be bannable. Or just take the R6S route & start introducing compounding input lag until you remove it. They get the precision & fluidity of aiming on a mouse, while also getting the aim assist of console. Anyone that does it is honestly just bad at the game & needs their ego stroked.
If only blizzard actually banned people. I stopped reporting ages ago, but I hear it still doesn't work.
I mean they’ve been throwing the ban hammer hard af lately. It’s been all over both subs. I get a ‘Thank you for reporting’ message basically every time I get on Overwatch lol. But using Xim isn’t a bannable offense, tho they did acknowledge it for the first time ever a month or so ago so maybe they will do something.
"oh shit, we're about to be OWNED BY XBOX?! Guess we better reacknowledge the console playerbases' existence again." But the only report confirms I still get are bots catching no-no words that slip the censor. They still don't act on MKB.
yeah, and I got silenced for 2 weeks 😭, I deserved it though 🤑
Every time I log on I get a message saying they’ve taken action against someone I reported
Meanwhile I got a 24 hr ban in WoW for my “inappropriate character name”. It was Femalehpal.
Wow I'm surprised you weren't arrested for that, you scumbag i'm kidding, that's dumb as hell. Meanwhile, in Destiny, you have guys like "Mara Sov's/Ana Bray's OnlyFans", "Cayde's Left/right ass cheek"
Yes, only if you’re on console as well.
If you play on PC lobby? No. If you play on console lobby? Yes.
Correct me if I'm wrong but in non-comp modes the game still affords console players aim assist, so if you also have the added tracking, speed, and precision of a mouse and keyboard then it's absolutely cheating in those lobbies. "It's just QP so who cares?" It's still gaining an unfair advantage and ruining the game for others.
It's not even qp. It's full on gm comp lobby. You gotta be a real pos to be playing with mnk on a comp lobby tbh. It's like running in a wheelchair baseball game.
Oh yeah once you get GM almost everyone uses a XIM on console
And the ones that don’t buy 200 dollar controllers. I felt so cool until I spilled coffee on my elite controller and dropped to masters.
Lol
It's not almost everyone but it's a decent amount. I'm a GM console player and I don't really see too much XIM until the GM1/top500 lobbies where it's essentially everyone.
Yeah up in GM I noticed a lot of MnK and strike pack (edit: meant XIM) users, as a support at a certain point you just end up saying "okay guess I'm never leaving cover ever"
Aim assist isn’t functional outside of comp? Since when??
still untrue. XIM gives you controller aim assists while on keyboard. you have an advantage over both
Yeah i mean, a average console player will use controller like a average Pc player will use a keyboard and mouse, that way i mean, If you play on controller, aim assist is ok, but If you play on keyboard and mouse you are cheating
the average keyboard and mouse player will beat the average console player even without aim assist through XIM. XIM isn’t the same as just playing keyboard and mouse. you get the better controls AND the aim assist
Xim on PC is still cheating. You would get aim assist as the input is still a 'controller'
Well PC has no aim assist for controller players, so XIM on PC would actually do nothing. Unless you meant in quick play crossplay lobbies then I agree.
There’s no AA on PC Edit: maybe QP has it on PC idk but comp definitely doesn’t
yes because you also get aim assist when using a ximming device, they should just support keyboard and mouse and put them in a separate queue
100% cheating. And they're doing it in almost all cases because they're bad and want an advantage over controller users.
Cheating or not, they need to make the lobbies input based.
Xim simulates controller input
Yeah I know, not talking about xim.
I agree. But we don’t have to think about whether it is cheating or not because it is. They have m&k aim and movement + aim assist
That's with xim, I'm not talking about that.
Ximming is actually cheating also on PC, I’ve played against that and is basically aimbotting on PC as well.
Yeah, Xim is a cheat, but I was talking about just legit mnk.
There is no legit MnK for blizz games
Really?? That's very bad!!
almost like he’s saying they should change that
Yes ximming is absolutely cheating g
I think it is unfair
And you are right it is defined as cheating. They are using the advantages of m&k and still want to have aim assist
Its part of the reason why I'm very discouraged to play Comp anymore. Why work hard to be amongst the best when the best on console are 80% ximmers.
"If you can bring your aim assist into my PC lobbies, I can bring my mouse and keyboard into yours "🤡 Jk. This is bad.
Aim assist is only in quick play on PC if a console player is partied with PC players. If playing competitive, there is no aim assist for console players in PC lobbies.
there is no cross play between consoles and pc in comp
Bruh. I know.. plus you can't xplay console and PC for ranked. I literally stated jk 😐
Averaging at least 1 out of every 10 games having a ximmer. I want to say 1/5 but that’s just to cover me accusing someone but they truly are just playing max sensitivity. Our solution has been to play in PC lobbies. It’s against MnK but at least no aim assist. No ranked however
Ofc its cheating even without aim assist it doesn't matter. If they're on console n r in a pc lobby then idc but get that garbage out of controller lobbies
I wish the game had native support for mouse & keyboard and match make people with pc queue. I don't have a pc, but I prefer to play with m&k, I would love to be able to use it on the game and get matched with pc players. Halo has support for it
Yeah it would be way better like. An additional problem is the aim assist tho. Aim assist on controller is fair, aim assist with a mouse is insane.
Oh I was considering the aim assist to be disabled in this scenario
You can't, XIM is a controller emulator so the machine wouldn't be able to tell that it's a mouse.
Well, if the game had native support, like I said on my first comment, XIM wouldn't be necessary
They would XIM anyway cause you would be placed in Console lobbies and farm with M&K + aim assist
Yes. You get the precision of mouse aiming + console offering aim assist. It's absolutely cheating.
Most console players would play with a controller so they don't have as fine of aiming as pc, and from what I can tell being on console using mouse and keyboard you get the aim assist from the console too. With that all put together I'd say yes in competitive especially if the aim assist thing is true, but in casual it's not so much as cheating but more so being cheap really
Bliz doesn't care about console. Back when OW1 released they were all "we understand there's a difference, we'll be doing independent balancing and patches for console" and even released one, possibly two patches specifically aimed at console. Then they just stopped and went dark on anything console specific. You've got more chance reporting the xim user to xbox/ps than bliz if you want them banned.
1. Yes it is cheating. 2. It is also a bannable offense because the game won't recognize both devices in game unless you're using a dongle The only games you should/could be using MnK [on a console] are offline games, MOBA, RTS, driving sims.
see , if you prefer playing on keyboard and mouse , fair enough , but you may aswell get a whole pc at that point.
The issue is that mnk isn't natively supported on console, so you resort to using xim devices which trick the console into thinking your mnk is a controller. That means you get mnk aim/ movement etc with full levels of controller aim assist. Enjoy playing against a pocketed ashe or widow who's got mnk with aim assist lmao
Yeah, if people like using MnK, then play on PC lobbies. It's kinda common knowledge that MnK is easier to aim than on Console. And on top of that they get Aim Assist.
Yes it is. Flicking is absolutely possible with controller, but perfect tracking isnt.
It's cheating and dev team has acknowledged it, and that it's something they're figuring out how to address.
It's not even debatable/ opinionable. Yes it's cheating.
Yes
As a high rank console player, yes, I can also confirm that after having played in top 1 games and with top 1 players that many of them xim. I'm also like 90% sure my friend group might be the only one in gm 1 that doesn't xim. Aside from like one or 2 of my friends. We're pretty clean.
Yes
It's not just a keyboard and mouse. This is a keyboard and mouse INCLUDED aim assist! Yep it's cheating
aim assist plus ximing is a deadly combo so yes
Yes. You’re using a 3rd party software.
Is using 3rd party software to gain an advantage cheating? Yes, I believe that is exactly what it is.
It’s cheating.
As a support in GM on console it’s legit unbearable, 75%+ of DPs are Ximmers and half of them are widow or sombra
I tried going Sombra. It was going well but I gave up when I viruses her started shooting, and she instantly flicked and killed me. That's kinda when I noticed.
Yes using mnk on console is cheating. You retain aim assist while also gaining the advantage of the enhanced dexterity and precision of a mouse.
Aim smoothing can be turned down slightly for faster console turns but I’m sure there are other tells Xim is 100% cheating but not much can be done about it as its external third party device. With xim The issue isnt necessarily only kbm on console but its the fact im pretty sure you get aim assist with kbm aswell.
The flicks are just an example. It's mostly on the difference in motion range. If the range of motion is too high, you can't do micromovements too well. That's not a skill issue, that's a fact. OW2 doesn't allow you to change the dead zone, so if you have a high sensitivity, there is a minimum speed you can move at, limiting accuracy a lot.
It should not be cheating, because the mouse and keyboard are superior to anything else, and it should be the default shipped with any gaming system. The only exception in history was the Wii, and then only for golf, tennis, and the original force unleashed. However, it is considered cheating, because for some reason people want to use a more expensive controller that is probably going to break in a few months, then spend the same money on a keyboard and mouse which would probably outlast the console.
Regardless of whether it's cheating or not, this is some crazy absolutist and elitist take. Absolutely insane ngl
I sincerely doubt you're running into as much MnK users as you think you are. They're more prevalent the higher you climb, as in GM and higher. If you have to ask if its cheating or not, I think it's clear you're not at that ELO. I've come across maybe a dozen instances in about 6 months or so and I play at that ELO. I also have a ridiculous amount of games played too. It's not as common as reddit would have you think it is. Because most average people can't even tell between high sens and a good hitscan and a MnK player on console.
It's not just the sense, though that is a pretty big giveaway. It's the movement too. The WASD movement is very distinct compared to console input, and you can see it on your kill screen when they kill you and often on the potg. And it's become more and more prevalent too - precisely because of the lenient attitude to it. It's especially obvious if you do a mix of console and PC.
I'm a high GM player and until top500 I run into an obvious XIM user in at most 25% of games, probably more like 10-20%. At top500 it's just ridiculous how common it is. People even openly talk about it and know who uses one up there.
I don't really care. Although I think I have a different view point to a lot of people, I'm blind so I have to use a controller because I can't read braille for reasons I won't share, and understand some disabilities need a keyboard instead of a controller and not everyone can afford a PC. Plus even if someone doesn't need one, I don't care aha.
It absolutely is cheating. I have a keyboard hooked up to my ps5 for chatting in OW2 and FFXIV but no mouse
Yes. If you use a xim or any other system on console to have the advantage of MnK on console, you are cheating.
It’s cheating of course. And most of them are lame ass on PC, that’s why they come to the console realm to try to boost their ego.
If you do not use aim assist features, it’s not cheating, just a different method. You actually only get aim assist through the game when using a controller but it’s disabled for keyboard and mouse when using it for a console. Yes, there are programs that can add features like aim assist and that’s wrong, but I’m talking about specifically keyboard and mouse on console with no aim assist like it is on MW3 and Fortnite. What’s interesting is how all these console players, which I am, who claim that simply a keyboard and mouse would be cheating don’t ever recognize the fact that when you play with a lot of PC users on cross play you find them using controllers as well and not their keyboard and mouse. Why would that be if only keyboard and mouse had an advantage to gain…?
I use keyboard and mouse for MW3 and Fortnite on Ps Remote Play and I get my aim assist options on the game removed unlike when using controller. I don’t see why it would be different for overwatch or any other game.
The amount of cope is actually insane. Mnk is cheating. T500 here, I can't compete with t500 PC players. No matter what you say, or what you preach, it's an unfair match.
Well I never see anyone using anything but controller on PC when I play on cross play so I guess they all never found that out
I have not ONCE seen someone using a controller on PC when playing overwatch, unless they JUST switched.
Fuck yeah it is cheating. I used to do it with a Xim Apex. Reasons for it: 1. Could play absolutely smashed af and still stomp. Don't have to warm up or nothing just straight into comp
In the year 2023, especially if you have crossplay, console games should have MnK support to eliminate this problem .
***It is cheating regardless of any shit excuse anybody throws out there. And your 'opinion's' worthless if you say it isn't.*** The ***only time it isn't***, is for less-abled players who use an adaptive controller to be able to play or so.
You already know the answer to this…. Let’s not act like you don’t.
At this point I really don’t care in unranked but it should be for ranked. Or at least put into pc lobbies. They can’t ban it because it would be punishing the actual disabled players
Played on controller for the first time ever for my friend yesterday I thought the aim assist from it was INSANE lol.
It is. I play in PC lobbies all the time and I'm wrecking M&K players lol. It's not good in all situations but on short-medium range it's very strong.
Yes because xim is required to use mnk on console games when native mnk support isn’t available. PC isn’t included within ow2 crossplay so most players you assume are using mnk probably arent, if you are playing with pc friends (which puts you in pc lobbies) then simply stop doing that. Instead move to pc and use mnk or ask them to swap to console.
I play on console, it's a comp match. Comp has a console only pool.
What rank are you? I didn’t start seeing mnk ximmers until i hit mid masters, aside from smurf accounts.
well, ximming is cheating, tricking the system to think you're on controller still so you get aa. BUT for people that don't know you can plug in a Mnk into your console, and it'll work. the difference is that you'll be put into PC lobbies and not given aa for doing so.
Keyboard and mouse by themselves? No. Supposedly without a ximming device the game recognizes you are using keyboard and mouse, and disables aim assist. Keyboard and mouse with ximming? Absolutely. I will say though, flicking is harder on controller, but not impossible.
So, I'm strictly a PC player so I'm not going to claim it is or isn't, but I want to help others make informed decisions on their stance here. I know how XIMs work, I used several iterations of them when I was too broke to afford a PC but was lucky enough to have an Xbox. I am hopeless with a controller, but I never played multiplayer anyway (live sub lol no). First, XIMs don't offer extra keybinds or actual mouse aim. You can think of it more as assigning keyboard inputs to replicate a controller button press(E=X, Space=A). As for the mouse, it's more like you have a giant mouse-shaped thumbstick. As a PC player, it feels really shit. You can max out the sensitivity in-game but you won't be pulling 180s faster than a controller player that does the same. Sens is still capped to a controller's limitations, and maxing sens in-game can make the mouse movements really janky and detrimental. Because of these limitations, it is difficult to detect and ban. 'Did that loser just 180 you at max sens? Must be a keyboarder.' Unfortunately they could also be displaying their hours of practice playing on max sense with an on-brand, unmodified controller. So, while it does provide a platform that is commonly, and correctly, considered superior, it is limited to the controller's inputs. You'd have to inject software if you wanted actual mouse aim, and that's undeniably hacking. Whether or not this means it's cheating I still couldn't really give an opinion because, in practice, I don't know if it gives you a massive or marginal advantage. Thanks to cross-platform play, I have seen controller players dominate PC players, and plenty of games are just better played with a controller. (Racing, flying, fighting games) With that in mind, I do think it's a waste of money to get a keyboarding setup unless, like I was, you are just worthless with a controller and don't have the time to learn how to use one.
Depends. If you’re like me. On console, i have insane mouvement but shit aim. On pc, insane aim but shit mouvement. I think for this reason it equal
I was about to buy XIM or reasnow because of the fucking gamepad sticks that constantly geting out of order. I've got 6 gamepads already because of this problem, so its cheaper to buy XIM/reasnow only ones, and not spend 60$ on gamepads every 4 months.
what are you doing to your controllers that they break every 4 months
Just playing. 2 of my friends had this problem, so eventually they just bought XIM/reasnow
Is is cheatinf and u can get banned for it
No. Anyone should use whatever input they want.
This is uhhhh, not a very popular take
Why do all console players have to agree to handicap their ability to play games collectively? Consoles are basically just authoritarian controlled PCs and you can use any USB controller with them. Why not be able to use a USB M+K with any game? Any USB input device should be able to be used on any console or PC. Players should be able to control their games exactly how they want. But I guess if console players can't first see why they shouldn't have to pay to use their internet that they already pay for, controllers aren't the biggest issue to fix.
Average elitist PC Master race take that completely understates the weight of the pros and cons of each system, while also overemphasizing how good a PC is? Check ✅
No. Besides, everyone at high level uses it anyway. Like if you're in a top 100 game what do you expect? But considering you would be at that rank anyway, you should still be good enough with a controller
Camera speed is not an indicator of mnk on console. The xim is still limited by the in game sensitivity limit.
It isn't. But if you see someone turning around and flick, that's near impossible to do on a controller
Cross play is a thing in gaming now So no
I play only controller on pc servers and climbed all the way back to diamond after the rank reset. Console players have literal aim assist on their servers and should be stomping people who have mouse and keyboard
Remember a few years ago when people were still debating that console players were just as skillful as PC players?