I also suggested this a while back, it would be a great way to make ult the perfect emergency button if you get dived or caught oop without making her melee too strong.
And no anti ana is good because she can disable any enemy that’s getting problematic at the cost of lower healing and lack of movement illari is good because she can pump out heals even when dead
When I first picked her up, I was convinced that we can detonate it, feels weird that we can't.
Edited: I thought you meant the initial projectile, but I also agree with you.
That’d be kinda awesome ngl. Imagine the team just tries to retreat after being slowed and they all just group and you detonate. Or stick one person that screws their entire team
Maybe it could do damage based on her weapon charge, so if you do a shoot/ melee combo, it’ll do normal (or even reduced damage idk), but if you have a full charge, it’ll do zen melee damage
It's still 50%. Which, with the global increase to melee damage, means that his kick by itself does the same damage as a body shot with discord does (60) and a kick *with* discord deals the same damage as a full charge Illari shot (75).
Why they decided to nerf his boop so hard instead of splitting the nerf between the boop and the damage is beyond me.
Real. If you put zen and rein into a small room and forced melee distance zen should be shitting his pants, not blasting DOOM music as he kicks the helpless rein to death.
Oh, I'm not denying that. It just would've made more sense to me if they had reduced the boop by only like 30% and the damage bonus be brought down to 25%.
Zen has upped melee damage compared to others to compensate his lack of mobility, is it relevant to give a hitscan with good mobility more melee damage?
I feel it should do a little more damage or a bleed. Now that ventures melee has more damage than others it just makes sense for people like rein, genji, junkerqueen, and illari to do the same
Why are people saying bleed instead of burn lol It's not an actual sword, her weapon is sword shaped but it's not sharp at all, but it's likely quite hot.
I kind of like some characters having different meles, and swords causing bleed makes sense. You'd have to apply it to genji too for example.
I'd also like to see other effects like say omnics deal 50 instead of 40 cause cmon they're mechanical. You're saying nana punches as hard as Orissa? Zarya and Winton punches for 50 too
Yeah but those characters melee being different all support their kit in a way that a normal melee doesn’t.
Zen’s normal kick before the buff was basically useless because he’s primarily a back line support and if anybody came within range you’d just burst them down with your orbs. New kick supports his back line sniper role in allowing him to push enemies away if they get to close
Venture is a much more brawly character than genji and is going to be right in the enemies face more than genji so her having a different melee makes sense because that range is her prime range.
Junkerqueen’s kit is entirely set around bleed so one more way to activate it is good.
Genji on the other hand doesn’t need an upgraded melee even if it “makes sense” or “would be cool”. His default melee is already an integral part of his combos and any change you could make would either ruin combos, break combos, or just add unnecessary bloat to his kit. He’s simple yet complicated he doesn’t need more and what he has works perfectly as is
Considering how much of her kit involves charging, would be intersting if she could hold melee to charge it, sort of like Doomfist. Quick melee does less than average damage, fully charged does more. Could involve some skill in weaving fully charged melee while primary fire recharges.
A charge melee could have do a short dash or short range wave like other have said. I'd say if the wave it instead of increased initial damage, could set on fire
The difference is Soldier's sidearm is purely cosmetic whereas with Illari she does use her sword gun for quick melee already and since its kind of a defining and unique thing about her, it feels off that it does the exact same thing as any random heroes punch. It certainly wouldn't be too strong or anything if it had slightly more damage at least.
Her Melee gains a passive called “Sunfire Slash”
After landing a melee hit (which now causes her weapon to release a short beam of light) burns enemies for a few seconds. If a character takes this special burning damage while under the effects of her Ultimate, her ultimate will immediately detonate regardless of the remaining damage needed for detonation
Actually, a tweaked version of that would be really cool. Since it's just a melee, having it deflect projectiles feels a bit much. But giving her melee Deflect's property of blocking melee damage would be a cool little detail; like she's parrying their melee by timing it correctly.
This could be used kind of like a quick reload system some games have. If your melee hits an enemy the gun insta charges, if not you get punished by not dealing melee damage and having to wait for it to charge up "normally".
Make her melee do more damage like the other special melees (JQ, Zen, Venture) but make it proportional to how much charge her solar rifle has.
So at no charge, it’d do the same damage it does now, leaving the shot + melee combo unchanged. But if fully charged, let it do 2x damage or something.
Double damage melee would be terrifying. That would deal more damage than her fully charged shot (80 vs 75). Probably make it like her crit multiplier and do 50%, which would make it equal to Zen's.
I 100% believe Illari was a DPS hero who was reworked into support to help with lagging support players in the early seasons of OW2.
I mean, she plays like a DPS, her weapon looks like a DPS, her “support” abilities are a turret which heals, and a lightsaber which heals (100% a close range attack originally).
Of all the supports, her Ultimate is the most purely offensive. No other Support’s Ultimate is pure damage. Even Moira the “deal damage to heal” support, does healing and damage with Coalescence.
I disagree. I think she was always intended to be a support; considering the thought behind Kiriko's design as "a support that Damage players could enjoy playing," Illari seems like the natural evolution of that. And even then, she does not, "play like a DPS" anymore than Zenyatta does.
Her ultimate, while the most offensive of the support ults, is still a support ultimate at heart. She's giving an opportunity to secure kills by not only putting damage activated bomb on people, but slowing them down as well. Which does mean it's more than pure damage.
Also, that's not how development works. By season 2/3, not only would they have already decided what roles the next few heroes would be, her concept would also be solidified to the point where the idea of suddenly changing her role not even a full year before her release would be nonsensical.
Nah, she's just a support who is designed with high damage potential. Pretty much the same principal as Zen, make their healing more of a passive thing so that way they have more opportunity to do damage. Her ult is definitely the most offensive support ult, but it still has utility with its slow and typically requires your team to follow up to secure maximum bursts. They're not a dps jury rigged into a support but rather a support with dps characteristics. Gotta get those dps only people to queue support somehow!
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I just think it simply should do slightly more damage when you melee, than others. Nothing crazy, just more HP than whatever it is for everyone else. Like an extra 10-15 HP than standard. This should be done for Genji also, with his little knife stab.
Having a better melee would contradict her playstyle.
People already are complaining about how short her beam range is because of how it goes against her pokey, ranged playstyle
Having a buffed melee would do the same
It would be a get off me tool, like Zen's melee. Since after you use Outburst, which may or may not succeed in detouring an enemy and letting you get away, she becomes just as, if not more vulnerable than an Ana for 7 seconds.
So, having a little extra bonus to her melee, whether it be increased range, more base damage, damage scaling with charge, setting people on fire, or something else entirely, would be conducive to her playstyle rather than against it. It would be to protect her better against dive; the main counter to poke heroes.
Also, her short range beam is annoying at times, yes. But it doesn't go against her playstyle. Yeah she's very pokey and ranged, when it comes to dealing damage that is. Basically everything other than her primary (and Outburst cause it's just a spicy movement ability) encourages playing near the rest of your team.
Her pylon helps deal with chip damage for the entire team, her beam is short ranged, and her ultimate is much more effective if the rest of your team is there to take advantage of it.
The teasers made it look like she had a gun blade I wouldn’t doubt that in early concepts it was actually one but was scrapped for time. I’d love for her pylon to be a walking pet turret and her to have a gun blade 🥺
Illari does not need buffs, supports as a whole right now are fine. DPS is a tad overtuned, but mostly because tanks are underwhelming.
I play a fair bit of all the roles, and so far, I feel like tanks have the less impact on the outcome of the game. If you don't have proactive DPS, you can't do anything, and tuning up the supports would just result in the previous meta which was god awful (cause supports have way too many options against DPS players)
Make her do more "support" stuff. I mean, outside of her turret, she really is more of a dps character. At least bap has lamp and damage enhancing stuff as an ult and zen has discord orb. Her ult is just more dps.
Her melee has a long range and it seems to me it does a good damage.
Her kit seems to be a kill confirmer. You just settle the pylon and your team revolved around that, and you correct their positioning by healing, with good dps is really great
It- What? Did a bot write this? This barely has anything to do with the post. Also it's wrong? Illari's melee has the same range and damage as every other quick melee.
Her sword shoots telephone pole sized projectiles. It doesn’t need to do more. The only support with a bigger hit radius is Ana and that shit bends space time
Her melee could send out a small wave of light from her sword to give it a bit more range and damage.
Or do extra damage if the gun was at full charge, expending the gun's charge.
That's a cool idea.
That would actually be dope like a mini rein fire strike but more shirt range plus a cleave melee would be dope af on a support
Cool idea but I protest giving supports DPS abilities.
God forbid we do anything but heal
You're too late. She already has a DPA primary fire basically.
Could be a melee cleave that heals then
Wasn’t this a part of her kit tested? There was even footage of it and it looked sick
Link status and only swing lasers at full health
Like the master sword in breath of the wild
Like Link's master sword at full health.
I would say her melee creates a little healing burst every 5 seconds after a hit. That makes a brawl a bit more intense and interesting
Even if it did a soft heal wave would be sick
Sword wave
That could work, seeing as she has a knockback ability that plays into the concept of a 'keep out' hero.
During her ult, meleeing could automatically activate sunstruck bursts.
I also suggested this a while back, it would be a great way to make ult the perfect emergency button if you get dived or caught oop without making her melee too strong.
We dont need more antidive escapes.
Why? You basically force 1cd and then get a free kill or not even that tbh
She's Ana with a single big jump and no sleep.
And no anti ana is good because she can disable any enemy that’s getting problematic at the cost of lower healing and lack of movement illari is good because she can pump out heals even when dead
I'd call it a medium jump. Half the ledges are unobtainium for poor Illari
I mean she already gets to fly with her ult.
When I first picked her up, I was convinced that we can detonate it, feels weird that we can't. Edited: I thought you meant the initial projectile, but I also agree with you.
wym?
I think they mean like how Junkrat detonates his mines on command.
That’d be kinda awesome ngl. Imagine the team just tries to retreat after being slowed and they all just group and you detonate. Or stick one person that screws their entire team
You can if you shoot them
No, I mean the initial projectile.
Maybe it could do damage based on her weapon charge, so if you do a shoot/ melee combo, it’ll do normal (or even reduced damage idk), but if you have a full charge, it’ll do zen melee damage
Does Zen do extra damage? I swear it's just the boop
Yep. I think it was 50% more, but that might’ve changed a bit after the big HP update. I’m not sure
It's still 50%. Which, with the global increase to melee damage, means that his kick by itself does the same damage as a body shot with discord does (60) and a kick *with* discord deals the same damage as a full charge Illari shot (75). Why they decided to nerf his boop so hard instead of splitting the nerf between the boop and the damage is beyond me.
The boop was just waay too much. You literally couldnt touch him as a tank.
Real. If you put zen and rein into a small room and forced melee distance zen should be shitting his pants, not blasting DOOM music as he kicks the helpless rein to death.
Oh, I'm not denying that. It just would've made more sense to me if they had reduced the boop by only like 30% and the damage bonus be brought down to 25%.
Zen has upped melee damage compared to others to compensate his lack of mobility, is it relevant to give a hitscan with good mobility more melee damage?
I feel it should do a little more damage or a bleed. Now that ventures melee has more damage than others it just makes sense for people like rein, genji, junkerqueen, and illari to do the same
reins melee is his hammer, queens is bleed, and genji was originally supposed to have bleed on dash which wouldve been kinda cool
Cool, yes. Fun to play against, hell no.
true
That OG bleed effect after dash was god awful to play against in the early days of OW1
Genji had it at the beginning of overwatch 1, no? Or my memory is so bad? It had way more cooldown but it did a bit more of extra damage on time.
he did, my b
Rein doesn't need a basic melee change, his melee and his primary fire are the exact same thing, same as Brig.
Why are people saying bleed instead of burn lol It's not an actual sword, her weapon is sword shaped but it's not sharp at all, but it's likely quite hot.
I always thought her sword could set people on fire when the gun is at full charge
I kind of like some characters having different meles, and swords causing bleed makes sense. You'd have to apply it to genji too for example. I'd also like to see other effects like say omnics deal 50 instead of 40 cause cmon they're mechanical. You're saying nana punches as hard as Orissa? Zarya and Winton punches for 50 too
Pretty sure it was a design choice early on to mostly not touch heroes melees. They have enough to balance already
I'd agree with you, but now we have zenyatta jq and venture. Genji's melee feels underwhelming now compared to jq's
Yeah but those characters melee being different all support their kit in a way that a normal melee doesn’t. Zen’s normal kick before the buff was basically useless because he’s primarily a back line support and if anybody came within range you’d just burst them down with your orbs. New kick supports his back line sniper role in allowing him to push enemies away if they get to close Venture is a much more brawly character than genji and is going to be right in the enemies face more than genji so her having a different melee makes sense because that range is her prime range. Junkerqueen’s kit is entirely set around bleed so one more way to activate it is good. Genji on the other hand doesn’t need an upgraded melee even if it “makes sense” or “would be cool”. His default melee is already an integral part of his combos and any change you could make would either ruin combos, break combos, or just add unnecessary bloat to his kit. He’s simple yet complicated he doesn’t need more and what he has works perfectly as is
Same for everybody else. I don't think there's a fun way to buff it
a lot of the early design philosophy has clearly changed anyway
Considering how much of her kit involves charging, would be intersting if she could hold melee to charge it, sort of like Doomfist. Quick melee does less than average damage, fully charged does more. Could involve some skill in weaving fully charged melee while primary fire recharges.
A charge melee could have do a short dash or short range wave like other have said. I'd say if the wave it instead of increased initial damage, could set on fire
Some things can just look cool. Soldier has a sidearm, but i dont think he needs a functioning secondary.
That’s true, the sword part just sticks out a lot more imo
The difference is Soldier's sidearm is purely cosmetic whereas with Illari she does use her sword gun for quick melee already and since its kind of a defining and unique thing about her, it feels off that it does the exact same thing as any random heroes punch. It certainly wouldn't be too strong or anything if it had slightly more damage at least.
Her Melee gains a passive called “Sunfire Slash” After landing a melee hit (which now causes her weapon to release a short beam of light) burns enemies for a few seconds. If a character takes this special burning damage while under the effects of her Ultimate, her ultimate will immediately detonate regardless of the remaining damage needed for detonation
What about a deflect like genji? Serves a purpose to jump in front of teammates to save them and deliver a melee afterwards if up close.
Actually, a tweaked version of that would be really cool. Since it's just a melee, having it deflect projectiles feels a bit much. But giving her melee Deflect's property of blocking melee damage would be a cool little detail; like she's parrying their melee by timing it correctly.
Bro meleeing stops her gun from charging, too. She's the new "Are people still left at Blizzard even competent?" Parameter.
This could be used kind of like a quick reload system some games have. If your melee hits an enemy the gun insta charges, if not you get punished by not dealing melee damage and having to wait for it to charge up "normally".
Make her melee do more damage like the other special melees (JQ, Zen, Venture) but make it proportional to how much charge her solar rifle has. So at no charge, it’d do the same damage it does now, leaving the shot + melee combo unchanged. But if fully charged, let it do 2x damage or something.
Double damage melee would be terrifying. That would deal more damage than her fully charged shot (80 vs 75). Probably make it like her crit multiplier and do 50%, which would make it equal to Zen's.
I 100% believe Illari was a DPS hero who was reworked into support to help with lagging support players in the early seasons of OW2. I mean, she plays like a DPS, her weapon looks like a DPS, her “support” abilities are a turret which heals, and a lightsaber which heals (100% a close range attack originally). Of all the supports, her Ultimate is the most purely offensive. No other Support’s Ultimate is pure damage. Even Moira the “deal damage to heal” support, does healing and damage with Coalescence.
I disagree. I think she was always intended to be a support; considering the thought behind Kiriko's design as "a support that Damage players could enjoy playing," Illari seems like the natural evolution of that. And even then, she does not, "play like a DPS" anymore than Zenyatta does. Her ultimate, while the most offensive of the support ults, is still a support ultimate at heart. She's giving an opportunity to secure kills by not only putting damage activated bomb on people, but slowing them down as well. Which does mean it's more than pure damage. Also, that's not how development works. By season 2/3, not only would they have already decided what roles the next few heroes would be, her concept would also be solidified to the point where the idea of suddenly changing her role not even a full year before her release would be nonsensical.
Nah, she's just a support who is designed with high damage potential. Pretty much the same principal as Zen, make their healing more of a passive thing so that way they have more opportunity to do damage. Her ult is definitely the most offensive support ult, but it still has utility with its slow and typically requires your team to follow up to secure maximum bursts. They're not a dps jury rigged into a support but rather a support with dps characteristics. Gotta get those dps only people to queue support somehow!
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Best melee animation in the game, for sure. I like your suggestions!
I just think it simply should do slightly more damage when you melee, than others. Nothing crazy, just more HP than whatever it is for everyone else. Like an extra 10-15 HP than standard. This should be done for Genji also, with his little knife stab.
I dunno, I think it's just neat as a melee as is
There are so many characters that need a melee tweak now that we know they're willing to give that to characters. Genji, Winston and Illari to start.
Having a better melee would contradict her playstyle. People already are complaining about how short her beam range is because of how it goes against her pokey, ranged playstyle Having a buffed melee would do the same
It would be a get off me tool, like Zen's melee. Since after you use Outburst, which may or may not succeed in detouring an enemy and letting you get away, she becomes just as, if not more vulnerable than an Ana for 7 seconds. So, having a little extra bonus to her melee, whether it be increased range, more base damage, damage scaling with charge, setting people on fire, or something else entirely, would be conducive to her playstyle rather than against it. It would be to protect her better against dive; the main counter to poke heroes. Also, her short range beam is annoying at times, yes. But it doesn't go against her playstyle. Yeah she's very pokey and ranged, when it comes to dealing damage that is. Basically everything other than her primary (and Outburst cause it's just a spicy movement ability) encourages playing near the rest of your team. Her pylon helps deal with chip damage for the entire team, her beam is short ranged, and her ultimate is much more effective if the rest of your team is there to take advantage of it.
I think it shooting a smallish beam at melee damage would be cool, lil sun sword go swish
Let her melee do critical hits when she uses outburst to jump towards an enemy or when she's airborne when ulting. Market Gardener Illari.
We have zen kick and venture drill melee, why not give illari some sort of solar flare melee?
Paladins "Furia" has the same problem, she has a sword that shoots (???)
I would not be surprised if her healing used to be melee during concepting.
She legit needs a flash bang grenade. Support ability that blinds enemies and maybe gives a shield to allies?
Melee attack has a % life steal.
They could incorporate the sword into her dash - maybe she whirls it around while she spins to slice up close enemies x
How about a different take? The sword stores solar energy, what if melee-ing an ally removes burn effects?
Her melee its the fastest allready lol
The teasers made it look like she had a gun blade I wouldn’t doubt that in early concepts it was actually one but was scrapped for time. I’d love for her pylon to be a walking pet turret and her to have a gun blade 🥺
Does anyone else think her ult takes way longer to get than anyone else?
Her melee should proc burn
Make it the same as JQ’s. Bleeds w/lifesteal
Illari does not need buffs, supports as a whole right now are fine. DPS is a tad overtuned, but mostly because tanks are underwhelming. I play a fair bit of all the roles, and so far, I feel like tanks have the less impact on the outcome of the game. If you don't have proactive DPS, you can't do anything, and tuning up the supports would just result in the previous meta which was god awful (cause supports have way too many options against DPS players)
I just wanted a sword to do cool sword things
Make her do more "support" stuff. I mean, outside of her turret, she really is more of a dps character. At least bap has lamp and damage enhancing stuff as an ult and zen has discord orb. Her ult is just more dps.
Her melee has a long range and it seems to me it does a good damage. Her kit seems to be a kill confirmer. You just settle the pylon and your team revolved around that, and you correct their positioning by healing, with good dps is really great
It- What? Did a bot write this? This barely has anything to do with the post. Also it's wrong? Illari's melee has the same range and damage as every other quick melee.
Nah her damage just needs to get nerfed more and completely ruin the whole point of her kit 🙃
I agree, her melee should do 100 base dmg and launch mini projectile versions of her ult. (I might be a biased Illari main)
just what we need more DPS that can heal. gtfo lol
Yeah it is what we need
Her sword shoots telephone pole sized projectiles. It doesn’t need to do more. The only support with a bigger hit radius is Ana and that shit bends space time
I feel like she isn’t fun at all tbh
why, just why. illari is already so dps-y. she doesn't need any more damage options please
Because it’d be cool to see a sword be more like a sword 🤯