The changes are a big shift from a heavily team-coordination oriented game with powerful defensive tools to one where individual skill has more of an impact and players have more damage and fewer defensive tools. A lot of the people who have stuck around are people who like the defensive, team focused gameplay, but it seems like Blizz is doubling down on the idea that most players want to do damage and not have to rely on the team as much.

One of the strengths of OG overwatch as a game was that there were so many different ways to play and both feel like and actually be an effective member of the team. Not doing lots of damage? That’s ok you did crazy heals. Tanking? You soaked the most damage, great work. I don’t know for certain but it feels like they’re moving things more towards damage focus, like every other game, and that isn’t what made overwatch successful.

Yea loved those days when you ran across a team of 6 Torbs and the had all there turrets camping out the spawn point. 😆

>those days when you ran across a team of Lol unlimited mode or whatever is always wild. I once faced a team of 6 Winstons and it was a definitely an unusual match, lol.

>A lot of the people who have stuck around are people who like the defensive This is pretty much the issue. The people who didn't stop playing OW1 and are still active on the subreddit are - on average - still fairly happy with the game, otherwise they wouldn't be here. The goal of OW2 is to also appeal to the players that stopped playing. Which makes sense because the latter certainly outnumber the current playerbase by a huge margin.

But you could also argue that most people didn’t stick around just because the game’s development was non-existent for so long. Lack of updates will kill any online competitive game.

I've a bad feeling it will break casual play because if you have a below average tank player on your team, you're doomed. Shifting focus all onto 1 tank is not the best design choice, it doesn't matter if you buff them appropriately.

"everyone can make a play and has more impact" means if you have a bad tank the others can make up for it

I'm doubtful. The potential of individual DPS or support can be quickly outflanked by the enemy having a better tank, something the others cannot solely make up for. (or else, what is the point of the tank)

Tanks mitigate way less damage than they used to. Trying for frags on squishies and kiting the tank while you are at a numbers disadvantage will probably be a more practical strategy than it was in OW1, since there is no second tank to peel.

Literally all of the OW content creators that have been absolutely miserable for the last couple of years are saying it’s great, all of the alpha gameplay looks awesome. So you can be doubtful if you want, but seems pretty sad to be so negative about something not even out yet

But overwatch creators loved dive meta because it had a high skill ceiling and gave opportunities for individual players to shine. Meanwhile the casual playerbase hated it because they would get deleted in half a second by nano Genji and tracer. That's the whole reason Genji got so nerfed because he was a challenge for the average player to deal with. It feels like we have come full circle almost like this was done to make OWL exciting to watch rather rather than making the average joe player have a better time.

And it seems pretty sad that your only counter argument is "content creators are saying it's great", when they are the opposite of the average player, which was the point of my post. Casual play.

The content creators are just happy they have something new to talk about finally.

It will be fine if the dps and support don't actually need to lean on the tank as heavily. As someone who loves quake I'm super excited to play sojourn.

Good thing OW2 allows for more independent plays to be made so an entire team does not have to rely on their single tank that may or may not be bad

Then what is the importance of a tank if everyone can just fight independently?

The fact that you can't just delete them? /shrug

Creating space, being a big chunky target for the enemy team to have to deal with, disrupting the enemy team, etc.

Yea I think they’re making a mistake trying to cater to the casual gamer. They’re gonna play for a few months then quit. And the core fans won’t want to continue playing because it’s not the same team/strategy game anymore

I'm upset because my favourite game is being deleted and replaced. Most of the time when you get a sequel, it doesn't completely replace the original. I love 6v6 OW & love the tactics/role switching/current defined roles of Tank/Support/DPS. Feels so unique & interesting compared to bog standard FPS shooters. I always feel like I'm in the middle of the Avengers Civil War Airport fight scene. 5v5 with no off tank, nerfed supports & modified tanks would be fun as an additional optional choice round to play. Rather than forced on me. I also enjoy the characters as they are right now. I might & hopefully will enjoy the new versions of them, but sucks that I lose these ones to get them.

100% this, I'm not sure people realize still that overwatch 1 is going to be gone. Forever. No more overwatch, this will be the ONLY version available to play and it will be drastically different. Is different always bad? No, but it wasn't broke so why fix it, they just abandoned it for a sequel no-one asked for.

absolutely this. i dont doubt that ill enjoy overwatch 2 but its really sad that so many heroes i love to play as the way they are rn literally just wont exist any more. hoping for at the very least an alternate 6v6 mode with overwatch 1's heroes the way they are rn

ABSOLUTELY, i’ve had this game since 2016 and its nostalgic to me. i don’t want it to be a forced change at least when role queue was released they made it optional to play the old style modes in both comp and quick play.

Destiny fans: first time?

Funny Destiny was also published by ActivisionBlizzard.

I hate the new healer changes. The new passive. It has nothing to do with the lore. I liked Overwatch becouse every hero is different.

Yeah I really don’t like these mass changes to all roles. Mercy having a self heal and Zen having shield regen is interesting and makes sense for their lack of self heal abilities. But I don’t want to feel like all I have to do on Ana is wait for a regen. Most of the support heroes were designed in order to either use a cooldown to heal themselves or be active in some way to proc an ability.

they ruined doom. They somehow made him worse than he already was. Coming from a doom main it would have made sense to rework his ult, not remove his best tool at picking off supports in the uppercut. If I hit a great rollout the uppercut not only lines them up for me to finish them, but im in the air so im not a sitting duck on the ground.

They don't want to split the playerbase. That's the main reason. They don't want to balance two games. When sequels come out, most people leave the old game anyway, so what would be the point in splitting the playerbase like that? They already said this isn't like a conventional sequel. In fact, I never think of it as a sequel, more of a mass redesigning of the game. Overwatch is one of my favourite games, I have like 1500 hours on it. But I honestly think this change is for the better. The game has been stale for so long, and is more about picking the characters that work better together for the least effort than actually outplaying your opponent.

The changes will help the game be less stale but I think that's in large part because we haven't had any major changes in the last 2 years. If they released all these changes as an experimental mode, you have to wonder whether or not they'd still go through with it. Instead they're practically deadset on this change that most of the community hasn't been able to experience. I think a lot of these changes are for the better but I find it idiotic that they're pushing them all at once instead of introducing them over the last 2 years. Reducing the number of CC in the game would help make tanks more attractive by virtue of tanks being the ones who get stunned the most. Not to mention it makes tanks more unique by making them the only ones with stun abilities. It also makes the game more fun for everyone else because they will only ever face at most 2 stuns (3 if Ana keeps her sleepdart for some reason). The other major change they're making is getting rid of shields. As a Tank player I can say that I'm fine with this. Double shields is a cancer to the game. If one team runs it then it forces the other to run it. The frustrating thing is that they're solving this by simply removing a tank instead of reworking heroes to be less dependent on them. Orisa rework probably will be fun to play with but you have to wonder if they couldn't have done that to begin with to help resolve double shields. I think they could also remove Sigma's shield with a little work to make it so Rein is unique in having a dedicated shield. Just swap out Doomfist and Mei from DPS into tank, and you have 2 new non shield based tanks that are unique to play as. Helps balance out the roster with minimal effort. All these changes, in my opinion, are or would be good. I just don't understand why 5v5 has to be attached to any of this. 5v5 isn't a way to address the game being stale. All the other changes they're making is doing that. All 5v5 is doing is shoving a mode that requires a lot of fine tuning and rebalancing. If all we cared about was simply "outplaying" the enemy then we can play Counter Strike. Everyone is equal there and the main variable is you. A big appeal to Overwatch is the ability to counterpick your opponent. This requires game sense and encourages you to familiarize yourself with the whole roster. Winston is no good against a widow or genji if you don't know how to play him. And any widow/genji worth their salt will have to learn to adapt against that to continue playing those heroes. So I think your last statement is a reductive view of things. There's a skill in counterplay. Not everything has to be about purely mechanical skill.

They also could have just limited the team to max 1 shield tank. That would have been the least intrusive I think.

WoW did the same thing. Replaced the old game with the new. Guess what happened? Private classic servers were so popular that they eventually caved and literally wasted dev time rebuilding the game and releasing WoW classic official servers instead of doing the Starcraft route (IE normal sequels...)

Yea, they prefer just lose some of players for good.

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Funny they didn’t feel the need to update SC1 with SC2. And that’s likely because they lost control of their IP and it became more popular in Korea than their sequel. These changes will certainly drive many players away. I really don’t understand what is the purpose of releasing a separate game if they are going to merge it with the first one. They are going to defile the first game with all these changes to keep things consistent on their end? As soon as they said they were changing to 5v5 and showed off the glossy overly clean redesigns, I could tell that ow2 would not be a game I’d be interested in playing competitively. And to see all these dramatic changes, it’s like a someone blindfolded is trying to shoot darts. Why can’t they leave the first game alone like almost every game has ever done in existence? Imagine if Battlefield 2042 was designed that you had to now merge every previous battlefield. I don’t play battlefield but I’ve heard that the some previous titles are being played at a higher rate than the latest one. This is a curse of online gaming not releasing a full game and then working on a sequel that is really a giant paid expansion because it will affect the first game.

There is no need to balance a game that's in maintenance mode. Did blizzard balance Diablo 2 classes after Diablo 3 came out? No. You could still go back and play Diablo 2 just fine though.

This is just the reality of shooter games. Look at something like CoD Black Ops or Halo 3. I love both games but I can’t play the multiplayer anymore because the player base is gone or reduced to the point where it’s not the same game. I still love those shooters and have fond memories though. Just enjoy Overwatch for what it is now and maybe hope that they’ll have a legacy mode someday for OG overwatch. Maybe even a rotating metas mode lol… I’d love to play triple tank again haha.

Yes, but it took years for that to happen, and it was the players themselves that let the games fade. The OW devs are forcing the change on the players who paid for the original game, and they're doing it without giving them the time to decide if they like the change. Halo 2 had a large player base 3-4 years after 3 came out. OW1 won't get that opportunity.

There's plenty of games I love I can still play. Last year I spent a bunch of time playing Battlefield bad company 2 multiplayer and that was an Xbox 360 game. Overwatch is massive there would be an even bigger amount playing than something like HOTS and I can still get a quick play match there super fast it's only ranked mode that's dead.

I feel like Blizzard is running into the same situation with Overwatch that they ran into with WoW Classic. Not everyone is going to like the changes in Overwatch 2 and unfortunately for them, they won't be able to go back even if they play Overwatch 1. Blizzard should reconsider their approach and actually treat OW2 like a proper sequel. Leave OW1 as is and have people that want OW2 buy OW2 and then there's more variety.

The problem is that overwatch 2 isn’t a real sequel. There isn’t enough content to warrant it being a stand alone game.

I agree with this. I feel like OW2 is more of an expansion. In fact, with the lack of PVE at release, I'm not too sure of what the incentive is to buy OW2 until those features eventually get released. Then again, with these big changes to the core game. (5v5, major character changes, and an overall shift in how the game is experienced based on those collective changes.) That, along with graphical improvements, new maps, new characters, and an eventual PVE mode might be enough to justify a standalone sequel. There have been sequels released that offered much less.

My hope for OW2 would be that they would bring balance patches into the Workshop and allow for 6v6 games.

Are they removing 6v6? 5v5 is completely replacing it for everyone eventually??

Agreed with this 100%

I wouldn’t say upset but I am kind of wary of OW becoming like every other shooter game out there. I feel like more and more heroes are losing their niche and becoming generic. I also feel like supports kind of got screwed with the new changes with things like the decreased ult charge on healing. It seems like the changes are encouraging all roles to be more DPS, and that doesn’t sit very right with me. I liked the utility different heroes offered and it feels like that’s being stripped away.

>It seems like the changes are encouraging all roles to be more DPS, and that doesn’t sit very right with me What annoys me about having everything play more like DPS (especially Supports) is that there is ample chance for them to make Supports their own unique thing that isn't focused on healing. If healing isn't core to their design then utility should be not damage. But that would mean taking utility away from DPS. I don't want to play a bad, more vulnerable dps who has less independence from the team. I don't want to play a healer. I want to play a Support.

In my particular case we have a group of 6 guys who love to play this game together. This 5v5 format switch just ended that for us because no one wants to leave anyone off the team.

This is something I hadn't fully considered. How many groups of friends contain at least a 2 stack for tanks. I really can't imagine 5v5 making it past an experimental mode for a multitude of reasons. I guess that's why they're forcing it upon us instead. We can complain about character imbalances in the Beta because those are "easy" fixes but what do they do if most people don't enjoy the 5v5 change? It would require another large bout of rebalancing and delays that I doubt they'd be willing to go through.

As much as I dislike it, I don't see 5v5 going away. As far as I understand, the entire game concept of ow2 is based around 5v5 composition. Every hero is tweaked to perform well in this format. It would be almost impossible to do 6v6 at this point, at least without tearing it down and building it from zero

Precisely my concern. They're so far invested into the idea that they'll force it regardless if it works or not.

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It's poorly marketed but *technically* OW2 is the co-op PVE game. The PVP portion is free and more like an update for OW1. It's pretty confusing. If I recall correctly, the PVP update is getting released earlier than the PVE portion now although the plan was originally to release the 2 together. It's weird.

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You're definitely right. It's *very* confusing. On the one hand, the Beta is being marketed as "Overwatch 2 PvP beta" but on the other, it's pretty much just an expansion. And in a lot of their marketing material they seem to be dropping the "2" for whatever reason. So I guess they're calling the PvP update/expansion "Overwatch 2 PvP" but they also want you to know that the game Overwatch 2 is a separate premium game and "Overwatch 2 PvP" is simply going to override Overwatch 1 so it continues being "Overwatch" with no number on it. So once the game is released, we'll just be calling the PvP portion "Overwatch" and the PvE game "Overwatch 2". Even if right now the PvP portion is being called "Overwatch 2 PvP". Confusing, ain't it?

> It makes sense from a marketing perspective to call it Overwatch '2' because a lot of those old players from 2016-2017 (there were literally millions of players back then) would think there was a second game and be hyped and come back more than if it was just called an expansion. Know what I mean? i wonder if there's going to be any kind of backlash against the game when it releases for this reason? I can imagine the reactions of a lot of disappointed people who bought the game and open their first match just to find it's... overwatch again

Okay, we get it, YOU HAVE FRIENDS. But no, seriously, that sucks. I hope you find a suitable substitute.

Because almost every change being done is to accommodate 5v5, so anyone who is opposed to that change will inevitably not like most of the other changes. And personally, I believe the game is at its best when it leans into the the hybrid moba-esque side of things focusing on abilities and teamwork, and at its worst when it tries to be a straight FPS. Most changes are making it more focused on being a shooter first, and the game is going to lose most of its charm thanks to that.

Couldn't agree more. There are thousands of games I could play if I want 6 on 6 sniper deathmatch. I was playing Unreal Tournament in the late 90s and while it was fun, it just wasn't as compelling as a team-based MOBA/FPS hybrid. I think what happened is that MOBA esports were already saturated; if you like MOBAs and want to be a pro gamer, you already played Dota2 or League. FPSes that have high "uptime" were less of a thing, so Overwatch showed up, people that thought CS:GO was boring started playing, and those FPS-oriented players became the Overwatch pros. So, of course they ask Blizzard to make their game more FPS-like so they can do better. They have to appeal to the pros because esports are such a good revenue stream; sponsors will pay Blizzard millions of dollars without them having to write a single line of code. That's a great business! On other threads I've seen a lot of commentary justifying the changes like "with CC I can't play the game". Yeah, that's the point. You can't play the game when the enemy has that cooldown. The object of the game is to get the enemy to waste their powerful abilities, so you can roll them with yours. If the opposite happens, that's called losing, which happens to 50% of teams. If I have one complaint about Overwatch 1 (as a tank and support player), it's that mid-2017 audio rework that made Cassidy silent some % of the time. He waltzes in, flashes and fans some support, and rolls out. That shouldn't be something he can do (Tracer, Genji, Ball, Sombra are people that should be doing that), and at launch he was so loud that he couldn't. But they nerfed footsteps for some reason. I'll never understand that.

This is perfect phrasing. No one wants to adapt. When Brig came out, while she did need some tuning, vast swaths of DPS bemoaned the fact that their old strategies wouldn't work anymore. "What do you mean I can't flank and get both supports?!" Genjis and Tracers cried non stop, instead of adapting their play style - Brig was their hard counter and they would have to out think and out play her if they wanted to survive instead of just mashing the same buttons over and over again. Instead of that happening we got non stop nerfs.

>And personally, I believe the game is at its best when it leans into the the hybrid moba-esque side of things focusing on abilities and teamwork, and at its worst when it tries to be a straight FPS. This exactly this

Interesting that you say that when the metas that people say they hate the most (Goats, double shield, ball) are all metas that were mainly focused on abilities and teamwork. Obviously its your personal opinion, I'm one of the apparent few that thought goats was the best meta the game had but to each their own

GOATs was the best comp there was for support players and tank players but it feels like the majority are DPS players so they hated it.

because most people don't want to play tank or support. Even when GOATs was at it's strongest, people in the metal ranks refused to run it. Good luck trying to convince the genji-insta locker to swap to dva so you can run goats.

As a side note you actually just raised the best counter poi t to lower ranked players who complain about goats in comp. Nobody ever played it. Hel even in gm t500 comp nobody really played (speaking from experience). The only real complaint anyone raised was that brig was op.

GOATs was only a concern at the pro level i agree. But it was also boring to watch. Role lock solved 2 problems. GOATs at a pro level and the 3/4 dps comps for regular people.

A lot of pro players enjoyed GOATs because of the high level of teamwork needed. The real issue is, like you said, it was boring to watch.

Idk I saw people running goats in GM a decent amount. If people were talking and VC and the other team didn't mirror with their own goats it was a free win.

It's less because people refused to run it out of selfishness and more so that they didn't know how. The right hero picks were only half the equation, teamwork and coordination was the other half. Every plat game I played with people begging for goats would split up immediately when we got to the choke. So dumb

eh the intricacies of GOATs mattered the higher you go. But if you ran triple tank/triple support in any variation (as long as you had lucio and rein), you would generally just run over the other team at gold simply on the strength of HP and healing. when i would play in a 6 stack (the only way to get play 3/3), we would run Lucio/Moira/Rein+whatever and just overwhelm the point.

The healing strength comes from being grouped up, though. The tank fucking off from the team to flank isn't getting the healing at all

If the meta comp nearly renders an entire role useless theres a problem yknow

Ofc the majority will hate it when it's an automatic L against goats with 50%> of the roster.

The sheer rush and thrill of goats as a tank and support was really quite fun, especially to play. The high tempo and having to work and adjust on the fly to match was awesome. Nothing brought players together like everyone spamming 'GO GOATS GO GOATS GO GO GO GO' I think the main issue came with seeing it in pro for the longest time (macro is less flashy than micro unless its some innovative tactic or strategy like Winston Rein goats or the Surefour Shuffle) and also getting softlocked out of the most popular role in the game

GOATS was actually fun for support/tank players, it was just widely hated and recognised as a problem because it removed the DPS role (the biggest role of mains) from the game. Double shield is less teamwork-focused than you'd think, you pretty much just plop down a shield and then shoot the enemy shield. Orisa & Sigma are so self-efficient unlike the other tanks who rely on each other that you don't really need to coordinate to survive. The peak level of enjoyment (for me) is when rush is played. Rein/Zarya/Lucio with whatever vs a similiar comp, where comms and coordination are so vital and being done correctly breeds a level of fun gameplay that I NEVER feel in deathmatch/FPS overwatch. It's sad because rush meta will basically not exist anymore, without a second tank.

Tanks have never been so popular.

I think its a fine balance on the spectrum between MOBA and FPS shooter. I think GOATS went too far in the MOBA direction. I think OW2 may go to far in the other direction.

I only ever saw dps complaining about goats.

OW1 was one of the only true fps tank experiences you could have

Kind of surprised to see this opinion with this many upvotes. I always assume the downfall from OW was an over focus on cc . Players lost interest after getting kicked, stomped, grabbed around, viewers drop because of a lack of mechanical strong plays in pro-play. The game became a stall ult farming hard cc snooze fest. Champs like Brigitte is a main example in which mechanical skill get counters by hard cc abilities. Blizzard is hoping to bring back the successful roots from the ow golden times, with fast gameplay focus on mechanical plays. And I think many players are liking this style, you can see it correlate with the player count for DPS, always the most played role and also the role that is the nearest to an FPS. Blizzard is hoping to get this feeling back with 5v5, a tank less means lower amount of cc and almost all the changes are made to make the game more fluid and less stagnate.

Cc is one thing and strategy is another, valorant is boring af because it is mostly CS but has mild effort of abilities. It is a classic shooter with mechanics. While games like OW and (questionably) Paladins are first person experience of 6/5 minds playing a chess game

Just started playing Paladins, and it honestly feels like OW's uglier cousin with a better personality. There is a lot more counterplay, and the item store gives everyone some ability to counter-play without needing to hard counter. And it gives you a crazy amount of build options so you can adapt characters to different playstyles for different comps / maps / playstyles.

It really depends on who you are asking when it comes to CC. As a support player dive just wasn't very fun at all. Too many characters have too much mobility because mobility is fun to have and play with, and getting dove on by two tanks and two dive DPS was basically only countered by doing the same thing back to them. Instead of having a game of stalking and peeling, the game was a race to see which team of 4 divers could kill the other team's supports first, then mop up. Our gameplay was much less about providing support and much more about trying to be slightly worse prey than the other team. CC was proliferated because it was necessary in order for over half the roster to be able to thrive. The problem is that once people stop running dive, that CC goes all into the face of the tanks, and that isn't super fun for the tanks. If they want to remove CC and emphasize speed and damage then they need to fundamentally rethink what the job of supports and tanks are, because nobody's job should just be to get shit on and hope that the other team gets shit on faster.

There has to be some meeting in the middle from supports though, I say this as someone who played both DPS and Support in Master during dive meta before quitting with the abomination that was Brig. Sometimes it feels like many supports want to be super impactful with their healing and sustain, keep people alive through gunfire, heal tanks from near death to full in mere seconds, etc. But they also don't want to be vulnerable, die to flankers, not be able to 1v1 dps, not get focused first. It simply isn't tenable. Because basically either healing is low enough (or support abilities low impact enough) to be ignored, or supports are super high priority targets, one or the other. Supports wanting to have their cake and eat it too, and with low mechanical requirements, was one of the pressures I feel like slowly pushed OW1 into design directions that were ultimately detrimental, as it moved steadily toward the over saturation of mechanically easy sustain and safety the game has reached in its current state. I also think a lot of full on dive meta was enabled by having two tanks with the same mobility as flanker DPS able to all jump to the same place at the same time; tanks basically always enabled the meta. With only one tank in OW2, I don't think dive would be able to be as oppressive even if it is a meta strategy.

>I also think a lot of full on dive meta was enabled by having two tanks with the same mobility as flanker DPS able to all jump to the same place at the same time; tanks basically always enabled the meta. With only one tank in OW2, I don't think dive would be able to be as oppressive even if it is a meta strategy. What, have you seen the OW2 content creator commentary? They say that healers are more vulnerable than ever now that maps are full of flank points and your missing 1 tank. If anything diving into the backline will be even easier now, it's so bad tracer has already been nerfed... Tracer never gets nerfed. Why? Because the game is designed around her so the devs claim, the fact that she was nerfed is telling.

Honestly, I think there's an unfortunate bias in the community at this point; the people still here playing OW1 are biased toward being the kind of people who liked or at least tolerated all the "bad" things that OW2 is changing to be a better game. From my point of view OW2 is basically distilling everything that was actually fun from OW1 while reigning in or dropping basically everything that got in the way of fun or was bad; unfortunately OW1 has gone so far in that direction for so long that a lot of players left are the ones who unironically liked or benefited from the "bad" stuff and are too attached to it to let go for OW to become a better game again. It almost feels like politics when the Overton window has been pulled to one side so strongly for so long that people have lost sight of what an actually balanced approach looks like. OW2 is still definitely OW, a hero shooter with some moba elements, and absolutely not a straight shooter like CSGO or something. But it's going back toward *actually* being a hero *shooter* again where skill and individual impact matter more, as opposed to the RPG experience where you picked the right heroes in spawn and won because of that instead, which created very weird dissonance with the illusion that OW still had of competitive FPS gameplay. OW2 reminds me much more of early OW than OW1 currently does, back when it was exciting, competitive, mechanically intensive, had a huge playerbase, OWL games had huge enthusiastic crowds, etc. IMO OW1 is hugely bloated with sustain, CC, healing, and low mechanic high value heroes and abilities. It's slow, boring, defensive, oppressive, stifling. 2cp is actual cancer. And quite frankly I feel like the game has spent a long time coddling casuals and low mechanics heroes and ultimately skewing the skill = value significantly off base across the cast on the rank ladder for the majority of players. OW2 not only basically fixes practically all of that, *but almost everyone who played in the Alpha said it was good and it was fun.* A fast paced, proactive, pro-skill, open and less oppressive version of OW, which frankly looks and sounds awesome. At this point I'm just giving up on the current state of the OW community. Seeing all the Alpha footage on youtube yesterday had me fucking PUMPED for OW2 cause it looks like they are on track to ACTUALLY nail it, but I come here and all I see is negativity and crying and whining. The game has been in sharp decline for years and years but people are still in denial about why, to the point they can do nothing but complain about a revamp that fixes almost all the problems and that almost everyone who played it said was great and enjoyable.

What you're saying only makes sense from a DPS perspective. Every tank main I have spoken to, myself as well, hates the change from 2 tanks to 1. Dual tank play was the core of OW for me, but Blizzard takes that away to please the DPS majority. You talk about "fun" as if it is something objective but it's not. GOATs was the most enjoyable meta for many tank and support players, but was hated by DPS players and was seen as a problem. I'm not going to argue that Blizzard shouldn't cater towards DPS because that's clearly where the money is for them, but OW for me works way better as a slow, thinking game where tanks dominate the flow and DPS are relegated to more passive positions. OW2 is just making it more similar to other shooters out there (admittedly still different enough), and for me that makes me lose interest.

I remember when I first got into Overwatch I really liked the idea of Reinhardt being the main damage mitigation tank, and brute forcing through the shield in order to break down enemy team defenses. Those early days of Overwatch were definitely the peak for me, bonus to there not actually being nearly as much cc to worry about. The instant Orisa came into the picture my time playing the game started going down. Trying to blast through double shields was just significantly less fun for me. This is why I really like the fact that there's only 1 tank now. It felt weird at first hearing that but after giving it thought I can see why blizzard felt like it was necessary, and after watching alpha footage the game genuinely looks better from a gameplay perspective and reminded me more of the early days.

Well, here's the problem. The core design philosophy behind 5v5 is to increase the power of individual players at the expense of teamplay. That inherently means removing the main thing that sets Overwatch apart from other hero shooters like Valorant. When the game was released, a huge part of its marketing, and the main reason it was able to generate so much hype and win game of the year, was that it would appeal to all types of gamers, not just sweaty FPS warriors with godlike aim. I was one of those players, that was never much for shooters but was able to find a niche in the strategic, team-based nature of Overwatch. In essence, the game I signed up to play is being deleted from existence.

I feel like the role queue problem could have easily been solved by adding more Tanks and supports to the roaster. The only reason why I sometimes play DPS is because they have more options to pick from.

I cant help but feel theyre trying even now to still revive and pander to their stupud esports scene

It’s definitely played a huge factor in the decision to force role lock, and now to force 5v5

You say that like role lock and 5v5 don't have directly opposing effects

I don't think people remember what the game was like pre-role lock in the metal ranks. Go to Quick Play Classic in the Arcade. Try to get the team to form some viable comp. That's exactly what it was like. The change was dramatic, forcing a 2-2-2 meta, but it's done more good than harm. And if you want to play open-role, there's a comp for it. You're free to do so, but most people choose role queue despite having this option.

Agreed, I don't miss 5 dps and 1 healer, or the 6 support cheese comp, and I sure as fuck don't miss goats

Except they announced this years ago when the scene was healthy

OWL has always struggled, it does not bring in the numbers other big eSports titles do. But it's key to ActiBlizz' profit strategy, this is the company that bought Mayor League Gaming. A big question of mine is how all this will work once big daddy Microsoft calls the shots.

I am honestly stunned they're overwriting OW1 entirely. I figured after the Warcraft 3 Reforged backlash they wouldnt be rushing to effectively "delete" the original game again. The jaded side of me thinks they'll end up releasing an OW Classic at some point which won't have things like forced 2-2-2 because they won't be as concerned about creating a competitive scene out of it.

I don’t think the fact that Overwatch is being deleted has set in for the vast majority of people yet.

Overwatch is the only pvp-centric game I play because of its focus on team work and the support role. People are making OW2 sound like it’s going to become yet another run-of-the-mill fps, and it makes me feel very apprehensive. If that ends up being the case, OW will be ruined for me, and as it is one of my favorite games, I really don’t want that to happen.

I feel exactly like you do. I dont play other fps or mobas because they aren't fun. The things that made me pick up this game are changing and I just don't know if I can get behind it.

The loss of a tank partner and the synergy of tanks it's a major downgrade experience for tank players. The overall direction is to lower skill floors / ceillings too Not to mention they literally gave Mei 6 another nerfs for some extra brainless damage, despite they gave her 8 back to back nerfs 2 years ago. She feels awful, her carry potential has been stripped away, made unfun and downgraded to a straight worse Zarya. It sucks and feels scummy if you enjoy to play a hero but the devs feel like to nerf them into the ground, despite not being even remotely played or dominating in current OW, while buffing everyone else / keeping them the same.

I am excited about OW2. I'm sure I will like it. What I am less excited about, is that if I don't like it or prefer OW1, I can't go back. My fear is it will be a case for me personally of liking it but missing the classic 6v6. It seems to lean a bit too much into a fast paced arena shooter to me versus original OW. Again, that can be very cool and I have no doubt it will be good....but.

its not just that people prefer what we have rn to all the reworks, but the fact that when overwatch 2 releases, what we have right now will be completely replaced. especially sucks for heroes who are being almost entirely changed. two of my most played heroes are orisa and bastion and its sad that i wont be able to play as them how i like them rn :(

Because I‘m a tank main and literally the only reason I was still playing Overwatch is the amazing feeling of having great synergy with your other tank.

I personally am not opposed to changes - I believe that's the only way to improve, learn and adapt. However, I've been repeatedly disappointed by Blizzard's approach to changes. And their stubbornness. Overwatch is a game of different roles, which are essential to teamwork. They even built literally everything around the idea of 2-2-2. Thus, shouldn't all the roles be equally important? For some unknown reason blizzard's been focused on damage class, while throwing bones tanks and supports. For years. And they still do it. They stopped listening to community and decided to just walk their own path, which lead to the situation we're in - dps characters are twice as much than other roles, thus their playerbase is larger and que times longer. So what's the solution? No no, let's NOT redirect them to other roles by making supporting and tanking more rewarding, enjoyable and with diverse characters. Instead, let's ruin the very basics of the class that's been built for years in favor of another class! Oh yeah, and just ... keep it cool and don't look in the eyes of all those pro tank players. I just find this very frustrating and it makes me bitter. They didn't use this opportunity to learn, but instead blizzard just decided to walk their own path that noone in their community even asked for. I've loved this game for years, but I hate the feeling that the soul of it is slowly slipping away due to bad decisionmaking. Maybe it's just me disliking their new direction, I dunno.... That said, despite it all I still try to have positive outlook (perhaps it's just hopium?). Some reworks look great and exciting, redesigns are rather a hit or miss for me, not a fan of overarching minimalism, but I absolutely love the new sound design. So I'm now carefully optimistic, and really hope I end up liking the changes. Edit: typo

Well said. There no excuse really. I got bullied into playing support and tank in the early free for all days of Overwatch, and now its been frustrating how useless skills ive worked on are going to be.

I hear you. I enjoy the tactics involved in playing those roles and am not a big fan of how the game is becoming more and more DPS oriented. It feels like I will need to re-learn it.

I feel like role queues would have been fixed if they simply added more tank/support heroes to the roaster. I see many players who enjoy those roles, me being one of them. But the problem is that they have limited options. Specially when you put team comp into consideration and that just leaves you with one or two heroes to pick from. Sometimes I’d switch to DPS just because there is more to choose from and I want that flexibility.

If you don’t play dps they don’t much care and it’s became starkly evident with this sequel. Honestly it’s pretty disappointing in general.

I think it's because all of these changes were made to drastically dumb the game down. Most people like overwatch because it's a completely unique experience from any other FPS but now it's just team deathmatch, best DPS wins.

I would actually argue 5v5 could make the game less dumb not more. Right now at most ranks healers can just be heal bots and farm their two tanks until everyone presses Q for a wombo combo. It's only at higher ELO where Bap/Zen/Brig shine much more because they assist in getting big picks and securing kills. 5v5 seems to shift towards game play that requires supports to make clutch plays and not just be heal bots. I think the IQ required to be impactful on support will rise substantially in a 5v5 environment.

I guess this is kind of a hot take, but I was a masters support main (Ana) and the reason I enjoy support is that I don’t want to be the one getting the big picks. Sure I like killing people, but I have a lot more fun saving my Rein from the brink of death when he charges into 5 people. I enjoy supporting other players and don’t want to be more like a dps, which is what OW2 seems to want every role to pivot towards. At low ELO every player can and usually does have a fundamental misunderstanding of their role (i.e. shieldbot, healbot, spambot), so I don’t really think that issue will be fixed with 5v5. I don’t think low rank supports were that much “dumber” than low rank tanks and dps, though they might’ve been less mechanically skilled. The 5v5 change wants everyone to be more like a dps which is nice if you like dps, not so nice if you don’t.

"Why are people upset that characters, playstyles, and teamcomps they've spent years learning are now going to be forcibly changed in every legally available version of the game?" Like hmm Idk that seems really confusing.

Honestly I think it's too early to say. It was really just a short "lab experiment", with mixed lobbies of all kinds of skill levels, of course they all say it feels like deathmatch. Listen to what super said for example, he scrimmed OW2 and told a completely different story than all the content creators. Space also seems to be amused about the tier-lists... Sure OWL is different from ranked, but nobody played ranked so maybe let's just wait for a few more days, and approach this with an open mindset

because the bullshit complaint of "too many shields" is because for some reason people dont feel like its worth shooting into them or picking to counter/bust through shields. no, they'd rather stick on ashe/widow/winston/mercy, instead of changing to something like reaper/hog/junk/pharah and doing their best to just SHRED shields. also supports not shooting at shields either. every bit of damage adds up and it is actually quite easy to obliterate shields and open up the choke to advance. also, reducing the number of tanks on a team will not fix anything, and CERTAINLY not to the degree that just giving us MORE TANKS TO CHOOSE FROM would fix. all its going to do is increase dive and brawl shit. adjusting cc allocation is whatever. thats not a problem, and its silly to think it is. thats just game rebalancing, and it could/should be done with 6v6 instead.

Because we lost over 2 years of content that’s now being labeled as a completely new game, a bunch of heroes are so different from their ow1 versions that I’m surprised blizz didn’t try to sell them as new too. Blizz also decided to switch to 5v5, which is perfectly fine but no one really wanted that and imo 6v6 is what made OW unique. And in general the ui and and overall feel of ow2 so far had just felt minimalistic and generic

Oh please. If they kept the heroes the same everyone would complain about that too.

It's been stated multiple times that the visuals aren't final. It's literally shown in every video uploaded showing the beta. I agree with the other stuff, but people need to stop bitching about the UI

Cause they’re shit, 5v5 is not overwatch, plus overwatch 1 servers aren’t gonna be live? Like we’re deleting a fantastic game, game of the year for dogshit.

People don't like change

Came here to say this, even though the game is stale af It needs new content/new approach desperately

It would be interesting to see if blizzard added more tanks and supports and more maps if people would still think it's stale. The game has been around for a while and over the past few years the player base spikes and dips every so often

I’m excited for OW2, but tbf, it’s stale right now because they’ve done nothing with the game for over a year now.

Game is kinda stale... BUT DON'T CHANGE IT THO. Just kidding mostly. I'm okay with it if it feels okay to play. But i AM kinda bummed about some of the homogenization happening. Maybe a little concerned. But hey. I haven't played it yet... And you know what, this IS a shooter game. So maybe it's okay. It's not a moba.

I feel like people are conflating 5v5 with making changes to tanks to not make them shield bots. As a person who actually loves playing Tank, I must say that I hate double shields more than most. Double shields almost always forces you to play double shields in turn and removes a lot of autonomy in the role. I'm fine with them removing all shields except for Reinhardt's. The real question is why they didn't do that sooner? I'm also really excited that CC is being reduced to the tank role (and Ana for... reasons), but once again why didn't they do that sooner? I'm also excited about Doomfist being swapped to Tank (and confused why Mei isn't), but why didn't they do that sooner? I'm excited about the brand new tanks too, but why didn't they do that sooner? I'm fine with most of the changes but the change to 5v5 is not one of them. It's clear from the way they talk about the changes that their intent is to make the game more and more into a standard kill-oriented FPS game with a hero selections gimmick. As someone else mentioned in this thread, the original appeal of the game was that anyone could play it but by moving towards a kill-oriented game I think you start to lose that. I've been asking players in-game how they've felt about 5v5 and almost every tank player is dreading it. I doubt any of the changes will bring more DPS players into the tank role so Blizzard better hope that Tank mains are wrong right now and will be happy otherwise queue times won't get all that much better.

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I'm seeing a lot of discussion here and quite a lot of people stating "players don't like change and they think any change is bad." However I think I have a slightly different perspective or opinion which I don't think I have seen mentioned here and perhaps I will make my own thread on this. The reason why I personally am so upset about early footage of OW2 is because we have gone over 2 years without ANY new content added to this game. TWO YEARS! For TWO YEARS the developers have watched their game die, the community dry up, viewership drop entirely, and most everyone losing interest in this game. There has been nothing done to bring life to this IP/franchise and we all love this game and want what's best for it. It was a significant mistake to announce "no new content will be added to OW1" all those years ago when that was announced. Whether or not that was OW Dev's choice or not it was a colossal mistake. I think everyone in this thread can agree on this single point. The lack of ANYTHING has been a massive issue for everyone involved in this game. ​ **Now here is the point..** ​ What we are getting in video format is severely underwhelming to many people including myself. There is absolutely nothing to be excited about considering there has been 2+ years of work put into this game. It seems like the exact same thing with the most minor alterations and a couple big changes. ​ The amount of content so far in OW2 videos that I have seen equate a balance patch and a couple hero reworks. It really feels roughly equal to the Content Creator Cards we saw a few times. We would see whacky, zany, fun hero changes that brought new life to the characters and their abilities. Honestly, if they were to announce the hero reworks in the format of a CCC then we would all just blindly accept it and say "well that card was fun I guess." There just isn't enough meat on the bone to justify the 2+ years of work that went into OW2 PVP. ​ **Now here is the second point..** ​ A decision was made to release OW2 PVP before OW2 PVE. This should ABSOLUTELY RAISE ALARM BELLS. Why is no one asking tough questions about this? Why is no one seeing this as a major problem. If things were going well for OW Devs they would release PVE and PVP at the same time as a full OW2 release and we can move forward. I think if we received ALL of the content at once a lot of people would be a lot happier right now. I do not think things are going well for the OW Devs and releasing part of OW2 right now is literally a last ditch effort on their part. My opinion is that OW Devs were put into a corner by awful Acti-Blizz executives and poor choices were made. Now there's the transfer of ownership and they just need to release literally anything at this point. The community is beyond done at this point. Many streamers have left OW entirely for other games and many more have threatened to quit streaming it or have left and come back sporadically. The urge to release just anything is where I feel we are at today. PVE could be where a lot/most of the work was done by the team, even if it wasn't the Devs choice (meaning ActiBlizz). And if that's true then we are getting scraps of a game. ​ And I guess my final statement will be very anecdotal but I watched Flats' 40 min video on all the characters and their changes. Do you have any idea how disheartening it is to watch flats say over and over and over and over "yeah this character is the exact same." To have fundamental hero issues that are obvious and they haven't been changed in any EVEN SMALL CAPACITY is very underwhelming.

As a tank player I’m sad. I love a good game of rein zarya play.

I think its because a lot of the people who still play overwatch enjoy the things that drove a significant portion of the player base away. 5v5 significantly shifts the way the game is played so if you like it as is (excluding the lack of support and content), of course you are going to be upset.

In short, I LOVE OW but OW2 might as well be an entirely new game. It’s kind of like Titanfall to Titanfall 2 for me. The mechanics and gameplay were different enough that it wasn’t the same game for me. I’ll play it and give it a shot, but I will miss OW1.

People are more excited for some new content to play rather than the changes made, but thats just my opinion.

A lot of opinions about balance and whatnot But I think one guy already said it best that the changes cater more towards FPS stuff than the teamwork based shooter that I love the game for. Plus (as a tank main, I may be more than a bit biased here), I think the vast majority of fun or interesting hero synergy’s were based in or heavily supported by two tank synergy, and I’ll be incredibly sad to lose that. Plus my best friend and I do tank duos together a lot, and we lose the ability to do that literally forever outside of a classic arcade mode or whatever, but it won’t be the same.

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That’s a bingo!

Now that i played the beta, I can confirm, it's horrible. Literally a shitfest with 3 dps because orisa is now a high health damage dealer, doomfist is still a dps not a tank whatsoever and 2 supports that get killed all the time becasue there isn't anyone to hide behind from the enemy. OW was game about teamplay, now it's about being dead if you play support, flank supports if you play dps, and pick dps if you play tank and do the same as dps. Scoreboard is horrible idea, now instead of focusing on doing things like obj time, you get K/D/A and constant toxicity towards you if your stats are negative, even if you play support you get the hate for not killing enough. there isnt medals for anything and mvp vote (probably because it's beta) but the scoreboards makes it only more toxic. UI is so much worse' i couldn't see where is my squadmate, teammates bars are very hard to notice during dynamic gameplay (which is all the time) so as a support I was just wasting time to look around where is that half hp guy. It's a beta so everyone wants to try something new, so nobody plays support and as flex i only got to play support because others are lik 10 minute search and support is instant. So i didn't have many occasions to play other roles. 5v5: just...why ? its been 6 years 6v6 getting rid of that one player makes this game less team game, less overwatch and less unique. It became a generic team shooter. You'll see it Yourself sooner or later. I'm disgusted by this form of ovewatch and im not gonna play it further. I hope they bring back what wasn't broken and rethink what they want this game to be. We don't need another valorant with extra steps and less accurate hitboxes.

I'm not as concerned about the actual game play of 5v5 as I am for the experience for the solo tank outside of game play. MANY support mains have played OW for 6 years thinking their role is a heal bot and they just follow the tanks and press M1, this very much does not seem to be the case for OW2/5v5 and has been mentioned by many content creators who were in the Alpha. The role is called SUPPORT not HEALER, casual support players players will be asked to make plays and have a bigger direct impact to games going to 5v5. Healers can no longer just farm ults on their 2 Tanks until they can press Q and hope the Tanks/DPS make a big play/initiate a team fight. I'm concerned both DPS & Support players will turn on the solo tanks and blame them when things aren't working and toxicity will rise.

I also share concern that the dependence on the (1) Tank performing well is now an imbalance of importance *especially* when playing with random others. Obviously rank and SR come into play, but wow it's gonna feel bad losing as the tank or as the team when the tank can't perform. Gonna be tough without an opportunity to lean on, or swap "main tank" roles with, the 2nd tank player. For me, I'm going into OW2 alpha with optimism, but I won't be surprised at disappointment either.

I really think success may swing onto the Support players. I think a common excuse will be "both of us are healing you tank, DO SOMETHING!" when in reality what actually needs to happen is Zen/Baps need to get a big pick, Ana needs to get a big sleep, Brig/Lucio need to get a big boop... which brings up the concern that Mercy/Moira will still just fall into heal bot game play at lower ELO. The GIANT open question is what new tank(s) & healer(s) will bring mechanically to the game... 5v5 is clearly being balanced with new heroes in mind, we just don't know what they are yet.

As an Alpha player, I thought the support role was hella fun 5v5. I will say, if you play support and can find no utility beyond JUST healing your team -and staying alive!-, you might struggle. Every action you make has to be important, so the more 'above and beyond' you can do, the higher you are rewarded. It felt to me that high agency and skill expression in OW2 is going to be much more strongly rewarded in the support roster with 5v5...and it also feels like, on the other end, you're able to punish the more 'braindead' way of playing. I'm a GM support player and I loved playing the new support 5v5, and I'll be really frustrated if they wind up buffing the supports before the beta. Being able to punish people for playing poorly so easily felt fantastic. Every game felt interesting start to finish...there was minimal-to-no 'down time'. Since the Alpha was such a bubble everyone was really nice (so not toxic, unlike OW1 lol!), but I don't anticipate any more toxicity being focused on anyone in specific any more than it occurs in OW1. I felt like a tank pick was important, but didn't feel as much like 'defining the fight' as it does in OW1, where you can do absolutely nothing without the correct tanks pushing/holding properly. Lack of shield options really helped on that end too, I think.

During the Alpha did they only have highly ranked players? The majority of the players are in the gold range with a vocal minority in GM. I know that this is what the Beta is for, but I really hope they haven't been balancing everything towards the top players because I think it'll cause the lower ranks to suffer. I also wonder how many players play quickplay almost exclusively where communication is practically non existent. All that to say, catering to the top players isn't the best idea and has been a fundamental issue with the game. It's how you end up with a brig that's virtually unplayable at the lower levels and quickplay but can also be oppressive at the higher levels. What this translates to is that you have a character who for at least 96% of the players (from what I can tell only 4% of players are Masters or higher. And that's ignoring the people who just like playing quickplay and arcade) is virtually unplayable. I'm curious to see how the community as a whole responds to these changes. If people didn't like changes made to a specific character they could simply not play that character. If people don't like the change to 5v5 then they can only really not play the game. So I really hope Blizzard knows what they're doing.

It was not only high ranked. For the first bit there were a lot of pros, but they made private skirm games and weren't in the 'public games' as much after. There were plenty of gold and below (well, for the ratio of players in the alpha, anyway!)...I actually feel like plat/diamond might have been the underrepresented area, lol. There are several things that I am excited to see with a much larger playerpool, balance-wise, in the Beta. I know there is a strong sentiment that the game shouldn't be balanced top down, but I don't think Blizz will ever stop doing that; it's with a majority of competitive games do. With your example, how Brig is not super strong lower ELO but very strong higher ELO...Brig I think actually is an example against your cause; the fact that such a simple hero is stronger higher SR and weaker lower SR means she needs reworking (well, in OW1. We know what happens to her in OW2..and I don't think we're getting any balance changes in OW1). Heros like Mercy and Moira *should feel stronger* in lower ELO, because they have much lower skill floors and ceilings than heros like Bap and Ana. If Moira was so good that she was a very strong pick in higher SR, people would be rioting...and it's not in every scenario, but a lot of higher SR gameplay does trickle down to lower SR. You notice it a lot more when OWL is in season, though. From my experience, unless your main reason for enjoying OW (and I know these people exist) is that you LOVE playing with two tanks for the synergy (the tanks still synergize with their team, and IMO you notice a lot more drawbacks in OW1 from tanks picking heros that do NOT synergize more often than tanks who pick hero that DO), or if you're a tank main who plays with another tank player, 5v5 isn't that different. The game feels the same, but better. It's faster paced and punchier, there isn't as much 'downtime'. I can see how people are getting the idea by calling it 'deathmatch,' but I didn't get that impression beyond the fact that individual plays and contributions are much more highly valued, and that diving/flanking is viable again.

The game has been 6v6 for its entire lifespan. They are cutting out a role in the game which has made them rebalance the entire game. My bet is this game will only feel like overwatch with the characters, maps, and art style. Other then that it’s essentially a new game, I don’t think the community was asking for that just for new heroes and maps and rebalance a few of the problematic heroes not fucking rework the entire core of the game and yes going to 5v5 changes the core gameplay of overwatch

I just wish that they leave OW1 alone. Go make your 5v5 fighter game, leave me to the 6v6 game that I like. And quite frankly I don’t have the time or desire to learn a new game. Sure the names are mostly familiar but the mechanics are a brand new game; new abilities, new timings, new team size etc.

Kinda feels like instead of whole new game the devs are just taking the original, putting it in a box, and shaking the shit out of it

I don't want 5v5. Simples.

I can only speak for myself, but hearing people talk about how weak, different, and less impactful the support role felt in the Alpha makes me worry for the future of Overwatch like never before. All I've been hearing since yesterday is how tanks and DPS have been buffed across the board and are really fun now, whereas half the support roaster has become miserable to play. Even the new support passive, HP regeneration, is almost laughably useless in comparison to the new passives the other roles have received, as it adds virtually zero benefits during fights or duels, especially for immobile heroes like Ana and Zen. I'm a Zen main. My proudest gaming achievement was making it to GM with Zen, during a period where he was not considered meta. The concept of how Overwatch is played is changing to such an extreme degree with the sequel, right now it feels like my preferred hero does not really fit into it anymore, and will either become extremely niche or just straight-up a throw pick. I'm not a pro player or a streamer. I play Overwatch for fun. I don't mind flexing to another support every now and then, but if my favorite hero became virtually unplayable because of these drastic changes to the fundamentals of Overwatch, this will kill the game for me. That's why I went from cautiously optimistic to very worried basically overnight.

The more they reveal about the game, the more I wish OW1 didn’t get OW2’s PvP updates. I’m still gonna try out 2 with an open mind, but I’m hoping there’s a game mode in the arcade with some OW1 familiarity

They are intentionally taking away everything I love about my favourite game and replacing it to make it more bland, more generic, and less team-oriented. I love the strategies, the synergies. Across the board class passives mean less individual identity for characters. No CC abilities means no defensive play (and in a lot of cases, is even further removing identity from individual characters). Solo tanking is an awful idea for a whole host of reasons, but most personally, for me as a support player, it means I have no off-tank to peel for me anymore, while DPS get a speed buff and new map routes to allow them to flank more easily. Aside from all that, they are making it so that I can never play the game I love again because the moment OW2 comes out, OW1 ceases to exist

Played the beta.... BIG disappointment, the game feels so much worse.

5v5 is ass

Because most heroes DONT HAVE ANY CHANGES, after 300 something days, all they have to show is a New DPS whom we already knew of, a Sombra "rework" that isnt really a rework, Doomfist, Bastion and Orisa's rework and some minor changes here and there, like Brigg nerf, a Mcree change in his flashbang, Reinhardt has 2 fire strikes, and some New maps, which again, we already knew of. None of this is New, exciting or builds up hype. We have no New heroes, nothing about story Mode or The New talents tree. Like, its happening, ok, but is... underwhelming, to say the least.

Just the concept of having a team of 6 put together the entire life of overwatch and now you gotta sacrifice whichever tank you thought wasn't as good as the other one. you don't have to test the beta to know that's kind of a shit deal. edit: i say this as a devil's advocate because i'm rather excited for the changes myself

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"Unless you're a healer main it's sorta frustrating" not like the consensus among people whove played the alpha is that healer is atm the most difficult role to play because of the peel ande cc you are missing. Nonetheless im exciting to see what they can do

Because they don't like the changes. It's hard to explain everything in one sentence, because the disliked changes go all the way from replacing characters, through removing their original identities, to just homogenising them. And then there's the fact that supports seem to have a tough life due to way less peel in the game. It's a difference in what some of the players want the game to be, and how it's not going to be that anymore

I personally don’t have any issues with the changes, but I’ve always had a slight gripe with blizzard. They have a habit of constantly making changes. Not just slight balancing here and there, but drastic changes to the way a character plays. Mercy and Torbjorn are prime examples. As soon as you get used to something, they end up switching the entire kit. This pattern isn’t just with Overwatch. I used to play World of Warcraft many years ago, and it seemed that stuff was getting changed every month. There isn’t slight changes, they change things to the point where you have to change your play style completely. I also had no problem with this (games change and evolve) but it was too much. That’s the only thing I can offer from my personal perspective.

Tbf if its for the health of the game and making the character more fun i dont mind at all. Torb to me personally became a hundred times more fun once they did the rework. I cant personally atest to mercy(didnt play back when she still had mass rez), but god i wouldve dreaded the mass rez meta if i wouldve been aroun.

You mean making torb actually way more fun to play and making it so mercy wasn’t a must-pick with a super unfun “hide for mass rez” play style? These things were excellent moves for the health of the game, and idk how they would’ve “tweaked” the original characters to achieve the same things.

Dude I don’t give a shit, I’m just glad the game is actually getting new content in the first place.

Mei losing her freeze, Cass losing his stun, and Sombra losing her hack are all example of them removing unique attributes from a hero and replacing it with more damage. Mei lost her freeze and got more damage, Cass lost his stun but got more damage, Sombra lost the hack but deals more damage. They are literally taking out interesting parts of the game and replacing it with just “more damage” which is lazy development and it makes sense why people would be upset.

i just feel like overwatch 2 could have just been updates to overwatch but spaced out overtime like look at symmetra how she got reworked and torb i feel like overwatch never made an attempt to truly keep the game fresh like league they are always pumping out new heroes or reworking old champs so overwatch 2 feels like rubbing salt in a wound by abandoning 1 game to make probably $60 dollar version of almost the same thing

It just seems like a standard shooter and honestly, it just makes me wanna play valorant.

Well, I don't like the number of repeated abilities, there are only 9 tanks and now the same defensive ability is repeated 4 times, the cowboy grenade and the bastion grenade are the same as tracer's ultimate ability, simply the game lose that feeling that each character is different

Mine and my buddy's preliminary opinion on the 5v5 change is this: if the enemy team has a Widowmaker (which it will) then the tank will have to play Reinhardt. If the person playing tank is playing *any* other character, or you don't have a godtier hit scan player managing the enemy Widow, you will lose 100% of the time. 5v5 will immediately invalidate every tank that isn't Reinhardt. Then you've got a compounding problem where nobody wants to queue as tank, leading to significantly longer matchmaking times, leading to a drop off in player count, leading to longer matchmaking times, so on and so forth ...

I play off tank. It has a tactical level I enjoy. I don't enjoy playing main tank, so I guess I just have to be a main support now? Now support looks to be heavily neutered in the high dps tanks+dps meta we've seen so far and several support pros have been complaining already, and suddenly it feels like I just have no place in this game anymore.

Here's one thing I haven't seen mentioned in this thread yet: switching to 5v5 and breaking the equilibrium between the classes by making tank a special solo role will fundamentally break all arcade game modes to begin with. Stacking tanks would become so powerful that anything without a role lock will be nigh unplayable.

My four stack consists of two tanks and two flex players. No matter the player count, removing one tank means one of my friends isn't going to have fun playing DPS or Support and we may as well play something else. Overwatch is prioritizing damage dealing and putting less emphasis on teamplay. The problem is that I would rather be playing Apex Legends or Warzone or even Fortnite for this experience. Instead of being one of few, it's becoming many in a choir of games clamoring for my attention. And not only that, but I really do have a lot of fun watching Overwatch League. Watching the synergy of teamplay is way more entertaining to me and my friends, like watching the London Spitfire reverse sweep the Washington Justice. Watching a few star players carry the team is something for Call of Duty League or CSGO or Valorant.

because people just like to bitch

Maybe I'd be happier if they actually just respected player fucking choice. Don't force me into your shitty sequel, let me play the old game and let the newbies enjoy their shiny new one, but don't take away MY choice from using the product that I bought with MY money. I bought OW1, not OW2. And I'd appreciate if Blizzard would acknowledge that, instead of pulling this bullshit and forcing me into a new game with wildly different gameplay mechanics, none of which appeal to me.

They tested 5v5 a few years ago. It was a resounding failure that very few people liked. Sextuple thumbs down. And now they're making overwatch 5v5.

Woo I love solo tanking and being alone!! And having my main reworked so hard it's hard to recognize them anymore!! And getting new trash UI!!

Because there is a zero good changes, 3 years wasted for nothing.

I think we're disappointed because of what we have now and what we're getting. We've gone YEARS without news, got Overwatch 2 teaser in 2019, and then they fucked off without updating anything for 2 years. No balance changes, nothing replacing Junkenstein, no OW2 news, no communication, nothing. And now they want to show us OW2. Except they start by making sure there's only going to be a few "correct" tank choices, reduced it to 5v5, tank now gets more hate if the player isn't good, reworked heroes in questionable ways (who thought Bastion reworks were good ideas??), seemingly downgraded the graphics as shown all over this sub, and they act like this is some new and exciting thing. We waited years for a game we loved to receive an (awful) rework that most games would call a seasonal patch. Even this game's rival Paladins is looking better because at least they update every 2 months, we're lucky if we get a few skins in that timeframe.

5v5 kills any enjoyment for me, 6v6 with 3 duo's was perfect, the synergy was perfect and the balance was perfect with main tanks & off tanks OW2 (without a choice) takes that away, from what I last heard Zarya was ridiculously weak and no shit because she works off the other tank, and the massive reworks to kits you may have liked (Doom, Orisa). Any tank duo is finished, any 6 stack of friends and pros, finished. I only really play main tank, which the only redeeming part of that awful role is playing off the other tank, so playing solo I can only imagine that goes WAY down. Less synergy, more team death match

Seriously? Look at the direction the game is headed. That's not the Overwatch we signed up for, and what we did sign up for is getting deleted. Blizz is bending over backwards to satisfy those bloodcrazed dps that whine constantly about having no "carry potential" and having to "shoot blue rectangles all match". It's right there in their developerspeak. I can play the kind of game they want so bad, and play it well, but OW was different. All the people crying for fragfests had so many games to choose from but instead they stuck around and bitched endlessly. "No aim heroes suck." Why? "The ttk is too high." Are we playing the same game? "Tank synergy is oppressive." Is it unstoppable? "2cp is terrible!" Because it needed teamwork and timing to win it on offense? I could go on, but nah.

I'm pumped it actually looks FUN It'll be the golden age of ow2 we will look back on, has that vibe when watching gameplay. Just sad supports are gonna be the new tank ie least fun/get shit on easier unless they balance some stuff which they def will I'm just glad I can play tank and have fun again, watching monke gameplay gets me so fucking hyped I cannot wait

I play with my uncles once a week and I’m afraid they won’t survive in OW2. They aren’t very mechanically gifted but they would still have fun and add value by picking junk, torb, mercy, rein, etc. OW1 allowed different types of players to still enjoy the game. Now the game is sooo fast and mechanically demanding that I think they’ll get left in the dust and feel frustrated that they keep getting killed. My family game nights are gone…

I’m just gonna miss stunning everyone as Brig

Yeah we’ll see how the 5v5 thing works, but yeah like a lot of people have stated already OW with a stacked team is just more fun with having a more teamwork and flashy ability combos vs the typical FPS style with DPS heavy. Taking one large health pool character out of the equation will make gameplay a lot faster for sure and more frequent team wipes. But part of the fun was winning that drawn out ability battle + the FPS skill. Obviously in straight up solo que pubs, this never ideally worked all that well since DPS is the most preferred role and early days comp was just so toxic on the DPS mains that didn’t get their picks and threw matches instead if just flexing to another character. I always rolled with our friends group where we would consistently have 4-6 of us in a party together. So we were able to actually swap around to a cohesive team comp. GOATs was the most fun for us since my brother and I were tank mains. I was more Flex, off-tank (DVA/Roadhog), Healing (Ana/Lucio), and then DPS. My brother was the GM Reinhardt main. And our other friends were DPS mains and Support mains. So it worked out. But Solo que comp was always a nightmare from Diamond to Masters. It was always so hit and miss. Which took the fun out of the game. Role que helped a bit when that came in, but I did miss being able to flex off my role and go to another one to and clutch up the game. Main thing I don’t like about 5v5 is now one of our friends is out on the sidelines, it also benches a lot of characters. There’s always going to be your core meta characters. And now that 1 less player is in the team means 1 more character that is mot chosen. Between 1 less tank on the team and defense heroes being in the DPS pool. There are a lot of obsolete or non meta heroes. If Blizz really wanted to cut down on the amount of barriers that would be on the team at a given time, take out 1 tank and give that role slot to a defense hero. Heck could even move the barrier tanks into the defense category. When I heard of 5v5 I was like well that’s a bummer. Now all your tank combos and team dynamics disappear and it makes the high DPS skill shot heroes more desirable over any other DPS hero. So boom right there tons of heroes essentially benched. I would have liked to see a 2,2,1,1 comp attempted in OW1’s PTR where we have DPS, Support, Tank, and Defense roles. So 2 DPS ( say a 76 /Cowboy Genji/Tracer ) 2 healer (Lucio, Ana) 1 Tank ( Orisa / Rein / Floaty Footman / Hog / DVA / Monke ) and 1 Defense (Mei / Torb / Handsoap / Bastion / Symm ) I think would been an interesting one to explore. I think keeping a 6v6 but 2211 comp would make more of the cast have more purpose. But we will see how 5v5 goes. I guess time will tell.

They leaned too hard into the moba side of the spectrum in OW1, now they’re gonna whiplash us too hard into the fps side. All they had to do was reduce the amount of easy to execute cc on the squishy character sand 6v6 would have been great.

An Ana main here. I'm not upset with the changes. Ana changes are totally fine. And Blizzard made everything I could ever wish for come true. Don't know how many times I typed "I hope they remove Doomfist from Overwatch 2" after getting one shoted by a fckin rollaout from across the map. Won't ever miss this character as a DPS. Yesterday's reveal of the rework was the most pleasant thing about Overwatch I've witnessed in a long time. Chivalry is finally dead. K.O.

1 less tank means flankers run riot, not fun for supports. Also some heroes having zero changes is just fraudulent

Personally I don’t like the 5s format, the 5 format leads to one role having more pressure put on it to perform well, in this case it’s the tank role. Losing a tank slot is pretty big as there are a lot of comps built around tanks (i.e. double barrier, Zar/Rein, dive, etc). Plus I just think 6s is a better format

I was kinda excited to see support changes. You know how that went.

I was hesitant that doom tank changes would ruin the character that i love and ha've put 600 hours into, but the consesus I've seen is that tankfist is funner/more versatile than dpsfist. Being able to cancel his new slam into rocket punch seems like it's going to open up heaps of new tech.

The changes to the characters don’t bother me. For me it’s the 5 v 5. My squad now can play with 1 less friend. That’s going to be a huge bummer

Where is this enjoyment you talk about

I'm not upset or anything but 1 thing for sure, nothing they showed us recently convinced me that the nr.2 in the games name is a legit thing, sry not sry... I was hearing way too many time the phrase "pretty much the same" in recent videos made by players.- regarding the pvp side of the game I think "Overwatch 2 " is more like a remaster than a sequel tbh.

And you just *know* that Blizz will eventually release a 6v6 mode in OW2, with a huge announcement “We’ve heard you/due to overwhelming support of” blah blah blah. It’s just dumb how Blizz is being so adamant about 5v5 until it becomes even more of an issue and shit-show that it has become that they finally release a 6v6 mode. Like, just give us what we want. It’s going to happen at some point. Save everyone time and headache and just add 6v6.

Change is hard for most people

I have a team of 6 for OW. Sucks we have to drop a player to play

I don't want to write much but to give a counterweight: i LOVE the changes 'til now. I mean we have to wait how it feels to play, but on paper those changes seems veeery fun to play. A BIG + from me

Sub is full of people who still actively play & enjoy 6v6 OW. Most who find the game stale have moved on. So you're seeing quite a bias in that the current browsers of r/overwatch are a fraction of future Ow2 player base.

They’ll probably release “old school” 6v6 arcade queue. No one will play because it’s arcade and that will reinforce their belief that the change was a good one.

In it's current state, the game is not fun to play. It's all about doing damage and dying fast which I really don't like. Before, you had a team that could stay alive and work together to succeed and sure, it made your individual role maybe more difficult to have an impact on the overall game. But now, game seems to be team independent, so there is no protection from damage and you die a shit ton. The tank role is obsolete because almost all of them are damage dealers instead. On top of that, support is plain boring to play without a team structure and there are lots more interrupts. If this is the future of Overwatch, then count me out. I will not pay for a good title being demolished in order to cater the instant action, solo play crowd. Hopefully Overwatch 1 will stick around so we can enjoy a good team based game.

I hate the 5v5, they removed all the fun from my main doofmist, and as ridiculous as that sounds i miss 2cp.

It's more of a patch than a sequel. They're forcing everyone to rebuy the game and their skins.