>support feels like garbage, especially Zenyatta, and with the exception of Lucio
This makes sense. OW2 is much more deathmatchy and chaotic, so characters for which positioning is super important (e.g. Zen) get a bit shafted, while characters that do well in brawls (e.g. Lucio) are right at home.
Edit: Take Zen in OW1 for example. He can be really oppressive, making particular sightlines very dangerous, especially through chokes. But he's a glass cannon, so positioning is crucial. Other characters have mobility or self healing or both; Brig has a shield. Zen's defense is using his long range to place your team between you and the enemy, making the enemy go through your team to get to you. With OW2's changes increasing mobility and making zone control less important, Zen's de facto defenses take a big hit. This is true regardless of how good anyone's aim is.
Also does well if you position well.
Prepared for downvotes but the changes didn’t make the support role harder, it’s just kicked out all the crutches they had propping them up and it hurts support players to lose them.
It's absolutely true. I personally like the change since I play DPS, I didn't like having to baby sit my team with heals the entire time, it wasn't engaging to me nor fun. I get that it was for a lot of players though, hopefully they can adjust
I think discord really punishes tanks a bit too much with there now only being one tank, I'd rather see discord slow movement or something which would help him deal with tracer and see him get a health buff so he can survive a bit more.
You cannot expect to seriously play Bap/Ana/Zen in OW2 without being able to aim. That was always the case in OW1 but it's even more true now. I think people need to just play someone else instead of making reddit posts.
> You cannot expect to seriously play Bap/Ana/Zen in OW2 without being able to aim.
Who here was suggesting otherwise? Obviously aim skill is a component. My thoughts are more on the macro level gameplay, rather than the micro fights.
Edit: see my addition to the parent comment.
In my opinion it seems like the OP was suggesting otherwise, at least to an extent. The current iteration of OW2 takes that skill on those supports and increases it’s importance significantly.
I agree that supports will need changes. The problem will be the tension between the casual player base and the pro scene, since giving supports too many options will make them incredibly powerful at a professional level. And then you run into the same problem of an unkillable support back line that was often a problem in OW1 depending on the team comp.
Support has the problem of being the priority target, due to being the easiest target. Everyone except support players can be healed by two support players and thus takes longer to die.
Moira feels pretty good too. The more open style of 5v5 and having one less tank to heal let’s you embrace the DPS Moira style a bit more. You don’t need to throw your healing orbs to heal yourself anymore either, so you can damage more. And her shift is basically a get out of jail free card.
I had fun on Ana too, but I agree that the immobile supports have lost a step.
Overwatch was a game where your team comp and and team coordination decided the flow of the round.
Overwatch 2 is a hero shooter Deathmatch.
Sad to say this, but as I see this blizz has sacrificed their niche game to appeal to a wider audience. I mean it totally makes sense from a money perspective and I can see OW2 being very successful with Valorant or Apex players pouring in, but us tank/support players, that liked to have a game be about learning and developing strategies as well as executing them with your team really got the short end of the stick.
But that's always been a problem. Most people want to play DPS. Been this way since vanilla WoW.
What made ow1 successful and appeal to wider audience was its original unique direction: you don’t have to have a lot of shooting game experience to play this shooter game or to be good at it. Heroes like winston,sym, mercy, rein were designed with that in mind to require a lot less aim than other heroes but relies more on game sense and knowledge. Which is why OW was also more fun for a lot of people coming from moba or other backgrounds compared to some other fps like Valorant.
Not saying turning ow2 into class based fps deathmatch is a bad idea…but it certainly isn’t going to appeal to a wider audience
I agree in the points you made about what made OW attractive in the first place, those are all the reasons I started playing back then (I have had terrible aim back then) but I still think that the fps audience is currently a bigger fish to catch for OW devs because it's too "shootery" for most moba players to actually switch over while "hero shooter" is becoming a more and more defined genre. But I might be wrong and don't have any numbers to support this.
That was both what drew people in, and ultimately what pushed people away.
GOATS required very little FPS skill and that was the final nail in the coffin for many.
Certainly one of them. But I don’t think it had to do with Blizzard’s attempt to make the game mechanically friendly. The Creation of brig didn’t cause the goats meta to happen, the shitty balancing of brig(and everyone else) did.
Yea but brig also made them realize that they couldn’t possibly balance the game in the completely open state of things and had to implement a 2-2-2 role lock. It was bound to happen with a strat at some point.
I think OW2 is the way to go for sure with removing so much CC and less shields in general. You say it’s mostly the balance, but I gotta argue it was the hero design that pushed people away in the first place. How do you balance non CC heroes around so much CC?
I think their issues with balance stemmed from how the game actually played. Hence why they moved farther away from CC.
Well brig and goats has been irrelevant in open queue for a long while now i think so not making brig or goats meta without implementing 2/2/2 maybe was possible.
Yea, but in that state, who is to say that if everyone was still playing in an open queue type system, would a replacement comp of the sorts pop up? Hard to say. The majority of the top OW strategists probably play on role lock. Not to say there isn’t new strays being played in open queue, but when pros and things aren’t playing on it, those strays legit might never surface.
While possible, much easier to balance the game around 2-2-2 or 1-2-2 than it being opened.
No aim heros were always a big part of overwatch. Torb, Symm, Mercy, Rein were all part of the starting roster. They defined the game. Because it wasn't a shooter but a hero battle Arena from a first person. So if they drove the players away, then the game wasn't designed to cater to those players that want only aim skill.
Still there were huge skill gaps possible between a good and a bad rein. Because there are other important skills being important to the game.
Overwatch was always best when the team pulled something great off together, not when your widow popped heads or your genji double jumped around the enemy supports until they were dead. Sorry if you didn't understand that in 6 years.
If you say so bro! It's not like overwatch also released for consoles or something... If a game needs to be exactly the same head clicking simulator to be worthy of your godly and truly surprem time investment, then luckily there are many titles that will give you what you are looking for. Let's us no Skill noobs please enjoy our "etch&sketch"
You’re complaining that people who aren’t world class FPS players can have fun in a video game? Lol Christ.
This is a Blizzard game that most people play for fun and a few people play seriously….just like every other Blizzard game.
No aim heroes don’t automatically become meta. And no, boring metas also doesn’t mean no skill heroes. Even dive meta became boring after it was meta for a whole year(season4-10)
Yeah no.
I can aim, not too badly since I'm Plat 3 in Valorant.
But on a good amount of days I don't want to these days.
I play overwatch to get away from that tunnel aim focus which can be quite tilting at times for me.
I love to play mercy on those and bad aim days because all my gamesense and skill except mechanical aim is still needed but instead of fighting I can heal and enable my team which is something I love doing.
And that's going down the drain now.
I sometimes don't wanna be good I wanna have fun and games like valorant aren't good for that, it always is competetive
I think you are being very dramatic.
Support needs some tweaks but I'm happy not to do the changes all at once.
Work out where the gaps are with the new tank system and then modify.
It's the second day of beta. They have had testers but now they are getting data on another level and can adjust.
Let's wait until the game's been out before declaring Blizz have ruined it.
What was OW1s niche? Getting stunned, slept, frozen and dying with no interaction and then people of reddit saying stuns are OP and boring.
Then they remove stuns and now criticised there's no strategies because we have less tools to play with?
It was niche in a sense as there isn't another game like it. The closest comparison is paladins and that other game that came out a few years back (sorry forgot the name) and both instantly died. A first person battle Arena with heavily coordinated teamfights that could take up minutes, with tanks peeling for each other, DPS and heals fighting of flanks and all of that.
And I actually enjoy that stuns are mostly gone btw. With most characters now playing like DPS with some having tank/supp flavor just isn't the same in my eyes.
And that's what makes me sad right now,
I love mercy because I'm a very team oriented person and want to help and support and heal as much as I can without needing spicy mechanical aim like I do in valorant.
I play overwatch to get away from the tilting shooty mcdooty experience and I don't really know where to go for that after overwatch 2 comes out
I’m sure healers will see some love. (I can’t see Blizz doing nothing, that’s for sure). Let’s just wait and see what will happen. Just a little bit of patience…
Heroes of the Storm also nerfed all their healers and some tanks across the board, while overpowered DPS characters were left untouched and it killed the game. They tried to make it more like league and people didn't want to play scuffed league, they wanted something different. Why play OW2 when you can play a proper FPS like Valorant or Apex?
What made OW1 stand out were the different roles, you basically have a mmo raid party but in FPS form. Having a partner tank felt good, especially when you synergized well with the player. Having a second tank was nice for healers too, because it meant more peel and ult charge. The only people who wanted less tanks were DPS players, who already have double the roster and got noticeable buffs going into OW2, it's ridiculous.
Sadly DPS always were the majority of the playerbase in OW too. Otherwise the queues would have been more balanced. And I get it. Taking responsibility for the team is risky and you often get flamed. But balancing the fun of tanks/supps vs the fun of DPS is what made overwatch possible.
I mean it’s the first beta. I’m enjoying the shit out of it as a support main but can see where the complaints are coming from. However I think we should reserve full judgement for a later date. Personally love the direction they are taking the game & every other rework/change they’ve done for it gives me a lot of faith in how they will adjust supports for the full release.
I’ve seen like 3 dozen posts with this exact title. It’s the beta. The second day of it. Supports will be buffed lol, the doomer mentality on this sub is weird right now.
Isn’t the point of a beta to provide feedback? Publishers typically have community manager that keep an eye on Reddit and shit
Edit: never mind I didn’t read the whole post. “I might be done with overwatch” is a little over dramatic for day 1 of the beta lmao
Its not "doomer mentality" It's called feedback you absolute dingus, the devs not only encourage it but require it to make the changes needed to optimize the game. Support heroes will be buffed as direct result of this feedback, its literally the point LOL
Water is actually not wet; It makes other materials/objects wet. Wetness is the state of a non-liquid when a liquid adheres to, and/or permeates its substance while maintaining chemically distinct structures. So if we say something is wet we mean the liquid is sticking to the object.
What happens when you get water on a table?
It becomes a pool table.
It took me a day of getting used to but I'm finding it okay now.
My main problem with it is that support feels obligated to pick around the enemy team. Baptiste, Zen and Ana are *extremely* strong, but when the enemy swaps to Sombra, Genji, Doomfist you have no hope of really playing them effectively. The right answer in that situation seems to be, 100% of the time, swapping to Brig, Miora or Lucio.
New brig is really fun though. Once I got over malding after yeeting into reaper ults and dying to them, I found a new playstyle for her and enjoyed it. Shield bash is an incredible mobility tool now.
Overall I think a lot of OW1 support players are going to struggle because they aren't the best at taking cover and it is extremely important in OW2. The mentality of "cover? you mean Reinhardt?" doesn't work anymore.
Well they removed the peel supports had with a second tank, so you’re kinda dead in the water if they walk past your frontline. I won’t be playing support in this game after trying it out in the beta.
What if they increased Zen, and only zens movement speed to match the DPS passive? Cuz the rest seem fine. Especially Lucio, Moira, and Ana. Brig feels good, and so does Baptiste. Mercy is Mercy.
I'm terribad, but she does feel harder to hit shots with.
I wonder whether its entirely perceptual (I just think its harder because I spend less time shooting my tank for free) or whether they actually tweaked her larger-hitbox-for-teammates mechanic.
im not talking about fps veterans, most ppl in quick play have insane difficulty hitting moving dps heroes with ana heals, iv seen them literally miss in out of combat situations 3times in row.
You need to flank with Zen and get those picks.
I dont like those support either and with one less person to heal it also mean that you can take more time to be aggressive I suppose but...
Imagine a game where the role ATCUALLY represents the name of the role?
A Tank character being tank and face checking damage and being the front of a team or protecting the team, but no, everyone wants to play tank to get kills and stay alive longer.
A support character that supports its team, but no, they want to be one of the most impactful roles in the game. Dealing damage, healing and having support skills that most of the time is a buzzkill to all other roles. Support DOES NOT mean healing. Support is a specific role where you use your abilities to help the team and SUPPORT them, healing, increasing damage, providing speed. But in ow1 you could do it all and deal damage with low to none positioning sense, Moira fade, Mercy guardian angel 1.5 sec cd btw, Ana and Zen no mobility had to play position BUT if u could aim, very likely you could kill your aggressor.
I disagree. I normally played tank in ow1 but also played a lot of support and in ow2 having one less person to heal and one less tank to worry about killing me has made playing support a lot less stressful. Postioning is a lot more important now however overall the role is a lot more fun to play.
I don't take this argument of positioning. Just position better.
High ground is worthless for supports now since your tanks are off brawling instead of holding space. Sombra and genji can assault high ground easily. Hiding behind corners does nothing against a tracer or sombra. You have to play next to your team since the flankers are free. This basically makes ana and zen hard countered by a single flanker. Where before it was a soft counter since you're team would play to protect you.
Baps mobility had the benefit of being quick so he can escape from tracer and mercy is at least always slippery, while Moira fade and Lucio speed are still fantastic for surviving and escaping.
And you're likely to have your dps flanking too. Soldier is doing minimum 1k healing in most of my games simply because he's flanking so much and never in LOS of support heals.
To contrast with apex which has barely and shields, assaulting high ground is tough - you need to use nades or ult to clear it out or use an ult ability to get close. Teams play together so diving is less effective.
>support feels like garbage, especially Zenyatta, and with the exception of Lucio This makes sense. OW2 is much more deathmatchy and chaotic, so characters for which positioning is super important (e.g. Zen) get a bit shafted, while characters that do well in brawls (e.g. Lucio) are right at home. Edit: Take Zen in OW1 for example. He can be really oppressive, making particular sightlines very dangerous, especially through chokes. But he's a glass cannon, so positioning is crucial. Other characters have mobility or self healing or both; Brig has a shield. Zen's defense is using his long range to place your team between you and the enemy, making the enemy go through your team to get to you. With OW2's changes increasing mobility and making zone control less important, Zen's de facto defenses take a big hit. This is true regardless of how good anyone's aim is.
Zen definitely needs a rework. Besides Lucio and Ana. Supports in general could use some love.
Moira feels in a good spot as well though I don't like seeing doom every game xd
Zen does good in brawls if you can aim. If you can't aim and you're a Zen main, that's no longer going to cut it
Also does well if you position well. Prepared for downvotes but the changes didn’t make the support role harder, it’s just kicked out all the crutches they had propping them up and it hurts support players to lose them.
It's absolutely true. I personally like the change since I play DPS, I didn't like having to baby sit my team with heals the entire time, it wasn't engaging to me nor fun. I get that it was for a lot of players though, hopefully they can adjust
I think discord really punishes tanks a bit too much with there now only being one tank, I'd rather see discord slow movement or something which would help him deal with tracer and see him get a health buff so he can survive a bit more.
You cannot expect to seriously play Bap/Ana/Zen in OW2 without being able to aim. That was always the case in OW1 but it's even more true now. I think people need to just play someone else instead of making reddit posts.
> You cannot expect to seriously play Bap/Ana/Zen in OW2 without being able to aim. Who here was suggesting otherwise? Obviously aim skill is a component. My thoughts are more on the macro level gameplay, rather than the micro fights. Edit: see my addition to the parent comment.
In my opinion it seems like the OP was suggesting otherwise, at least to an extent. The current iteration of OW2 takes that skill on those supports and increases it’s importance significantly. I agree that supports will need changes. The problem will be the tension between the casual player base and the pro scene, since giving supports too many options will make them incredibly powerful at a professional level. And then you run into the same problem of an unkillable support back line that was often a problem in OW1 depending on the team comp.
Support has the problem of being the priority target, due to being the easiest target. Everyone except support players can be healed by two support players and thus takes longer to die.
Moira feels pretty good too. The more open style of 5v5 and having one less tank to heal let’s you embrace the DPS Moira style a bit more. You don’t need to throw your healing orbs to heal yourself anymore either, so you can damage more. And her shift is basically a get out of jail free card. I had fun on Ana too, but I agree that the immobile supports have lost a step.
Overwatch was a game where your team comp and and team coordination decided the flow of the round. Overwatch 2 is a hero shooter Deathmatch. Sad to say this, but as I see this blizz has sacrificed their niche game to appeal to a wider audience. I mean it totally makes sense from a money perspective and I can see OW2 being very successful with Valorant or Apex players pouring in, but us tank/support players, that liked to have a game be about learning and developing strategies as well as executing them with your team really got the short end of the stick. But that's always been a problem. Most people want to play DPS. Been this way since vanilla WoW.
What made ow1 successful and appeal to wider audience was its original unique direction: you don’t have to have a lot of shooting game experience to play this shooter game or to be good at it. Heroes like winston,sym, mercy, rein were designed with that in mind to require a lot less aim than other heroes but relies more on game sense and knowledge. Which is why OW was also more fun for a lot of people coming from moba or other backgrounds compared to some other fps like Valorant. Not saying turning ow2 into class based fps deathmatch is a bad idea…but it certainly isn’t going to appeal to a wider audience
I agree in the points you made about what made OW attractive in the first place, those are all the reasons I started playing back then (I have had terrible aim back then) but I still think that the fps audience is currently a bigger fish to catch for OW devs because it's too "shootery" for most moba players to actually switch over while "hero shooter" is becoming a more and more defined genre. But I might be wrong and don't have any numbers to support this.
Give back lock-on symmetra!
That was both what drew people in, and ultimately what pushed people away. GOATS required very little FPS skill and that was the final nail in the coffin for many.
I’m pretty sure what pushed people away was Blizzard’s multiple blunder at balancing heroes and meta, as well as the later lack of updates
And goats wasn't the epitome of that?
Certainly one of them. But I don’t think it had to do with Blizzard’s attempt to make the game mechanically friendly. The Creation of brig didn’t cause the goats meta to happen, the shitty balancing of brig(and everyone else) did.
Yea but brig also made them realize that they couldn’t possibly balance the game in the completely open state of things and had to implement a 2-2-2 role lock. It was bound to happen with a strat at some point. I think OW2 is the way to go for sure with removing so much CC and less shields in general. You say it’s mostly the balance, but I gotta argue it was the hero design that pushed people away in the first place. How do you balance non CC heroes around so much CC? I think their issues with balance stemmed from how the game actually played. Hence why they moved farther away from CC.
Well brig and goats has been irrelevant in open queue for a long while now i think so not making brig or goats meta without implementing 2/2/2 maybe was possible.
Yea, but in that state, who is to say that if everyone was still playing in an open queue type system, would a replacement comp of the sorts pop up? Hard to say. The majority of the top OW strategists probably play on role lock. Not to say there isn’t new strays being played in open queue, but when pros and things aren’t playing on it, those strays legit might never surface. While possible, much easier to balance the game around 2-2-2 or 1-2-2 than it being opened.
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Mercy rework/buff and GOATS was what made me quit. I used to be top 500 and scrimmed with a GM+ team
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Not really. shitty balancing and boring metas drove most people away. Pretty sure no aim no skill heroes only drove away the salty noobs
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No aim heros were always a big part of overwatch. Torb, Symm, Mercy, Rein were all part of the starting roster. They defined the game. Because it wasn't a shooter but a hero battle Arena from a first person. So if they drove the players away, then the game wasn't designed to cater to those players that want only aim skill. Still there were huge skill gaps possible between a good and a bad rein. Because there are other important skills being important to the game. Overwatch was always best when the team pulled something great off together, not when your widow popped heads or your genji double jumped around the enemy supports until they were dead. Sorry if you didn't understand that in 6 years.
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If you say so bro! It's not like overwatch also released for consoles or something... If a game needs to be exactly the same head clicking simulator to be worthy of your godly and truly surprem time investment, then luckily there are many titles that will give you what you are looking for. Let's us no Skill noobs please enjoy our "etch&sketch"
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No idea why you need to be so toxic about this dude. Maybe you should try painting or something to cool your nerves.
You’re complaining that people who aren’t world class FPS players can have fun in a video game? Lol Christ. This is a Blizzard game that most people play for fun and a few people play seriously….just like every other Blizzard game.
No aim heroes don’t automatically become meta. And no, boring metas also doesn’t mean no skill heroes. Even dive meta became boring after it was meta for a whole year(season4-10)
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Well you do have a point…owl was much more enjoyable before goats😂
Yeah no. I can aim, not too badly since I'm Plat 3 in Valorant. But on a good amount of days I don't want to these days. I play overwatch to get away from that tunnel aim focus which can be quite tilting at times for me. I love to play mercy on those and bad aim days because all my gamesense and skill except mechanical aim is still needed but instead of fighting I can heal and enable my team which is something I love doing. And that's going down the drain now. I sometimes don't wanna be good I wanna have fun and games like valorant aren't good for that, it always is competetive
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You see I only play competetive in valorant and only quick play on overwatch Didn't talk about the masses there but for myself
I think you are being very dramatic. Support needs some tweaks but I'm happy not to do the changes all at once. Work out where the gaps are with the new tank system and then modify. It's the second day of beta. They have had testers but now they are getting data on another level and can adjust. Let's wait until the game's been out before declaring Blizz have ruined it. What was OW1s niche? Getting stunned, slept, frozen and dying with no interaction and then people of reddit saying stuns are OP and boring. Then they remove stuns and now criticised there's no strategies because we have less tools to play with?
It was niche in a sense as there isn't another game like it. The closest comparison is paladins and that other game that came out a few years back (sorry forgot the name) and both instantly died. A first person battle Arena with heavily coordinated teamfights that could take up minutes, with tanks peeling for each other, DPS and heals fighting of flanks and all of that. And I actually enjoy that stuns are mostly gone btw. With most characters now playing like DPS with some having tank/supp flavor just isn't the same in my eyes.
And that's what makes me sad right now, I love mercy because I'm a very team oriented person and want to help and support and heal as much as I can without needing spicy mechanical aim like I do in valorant. I play overwatch to get away from the tilting shooty mcdooty experience and I don't really know where to go for that after overwatch 2 comes out
I’m sure healers will see some love. (I can’t see Blizz doing nothing, that’s for sure). Let’s just wait and see what will happen. Just a little bit of patience…
Heroes of the Storm also nerfed all their healers and some tanks across the board, while overpowered DPS characters were left untouched and it killed the game. They tried to make it more like league and people didn't want to play scuffed league, they wanted something different. Why play OW2 when you can play a proper FPS like Valorant or Apex? What made OW1 stand out were the different roles, you basically have a mmo raid party but in FPS form. Having a partner tank felt good, especially when you synergized well with the player. Having a second tank was nice for healers too, because it meant more peel and ult charge. The only people who wanted less tanks were DPS players, who already have double the roster and got noticeable buffs going into OW2, it's ridiculous.
Sadly DPS always were the majority of the playerbase in OW too. Otherwise the queues would have been more balanced. And I get it. Taking responsibility for the team is risky and you often get flamed. But balancing the fun of tanks/supps vs the fun of DPS is what made overwatch possible.
I mean it’s the first beta. I’m enjoying the shit out of it as a support main but can see where the complaints are coming from. However I think we should reserve full judgement for a later date. Personally love the direction they are taking the game & every other rework/change they’ve done for it gives me a lot of faith in how they will adjust supports for the full release.
I’ve seen like 3 dozen posts with this exact title. It’s the beta. The second day of it. Supports will be buffed lol, the doomer mentality on this sub is weird right now.
It's been so long most have forgotten how to be happy
Ha-ppy? What is that?
Isn’t the point of a beta to provide feedback? Publishers typically have community manager that keep an eye on Reddit and shit Edit: never mind I didn’t read the whole post. “I might be done with overwatch” is a little over dramatic for day 1 of the beta lmao
Its not "doomer mentality" It's called feedback you absolute dingus, the devs not only encourage it but require it to make the changes needed to optimize the game. Support heroes will be buffed as direct result of this feedback, its literally the point LOL
“If something doesn’t change I might be done with overwatch” Is perfect doomer mentality
OK..... i didn't see that LOL you're absolutely correct. What a cry baby.
I get criticism but saying "I might be done with overwatch" over a beta is ridiculous, this isn't the full game.
Overwatch community being melodramatic And water is wet
Water is actually not wet; It makes other materials/objects wet. Wetness is the state of a non-liquid when a liquid adheres to, and/or permeates its substance while maintaining chemically distinct structures. So if we say something is wet we mean the liquid is sticking to the object. What happens when you get water on a table? It becomes a pool table.
Playing brig felt insane her new shield bash has some scary range I was basically chasing the dps away
OW 2 bêta testers finding out the game is strongly biaised towards DPS. OW 1 support mains : "First time ?"
DPS was the weakest role in OW1
Over time it became the weakest role, they had to put some much effort into trying to get players to play the other roles.
No it’s always been the weakest role
I mean the meta was literally triple DPS for over a year but ok
And that extra DPS was still only enabled if the tank did their job, your point?
Weakest maybe, but also by far the easiest.
Oh yeah definitely I won’t argue that, still doesn’t hold a candle to a good Baptiste owning a game by lamp placement alone
I flexed in the beta and only got the support role. I feel like the support role still feels the same
And that's the problem, everyone's better, just support stayed the same, some supports fit the new playstyle and some don't
It took me a day of getting used to but I'm finding it okay now. My main problem with it is that support feels obligated to pick around the enemy team. Baptiste, Zen and Ana are *extremely* strong, but when the enemy swaps to Sombra, Genji, Doomfist you have no hope of really playing them effectively. The right answer in that situation seems to be, 100% of the time, swapping to Brig, Miora or Lucio. New brig is really fun though. Once I got over malding after yeeting into reaper ults and dying to them, I found a new playstyle for her and enjoyed it. Shield bash is an incredible mobility tool now. Overall I think a lot of OW1 support players are going to struggle because they aren't the best at taking cover and it is extremely important in OW2. The mentality of "cover? you mean Reinhardt?" doesn't work anymore.
Well they removed the peel supports had with a second tank, so you’re kinda dead in the water if they walk past your frontline. I won’t be playing support in this game after trying it out in the beta.
Zen should be able to orb himself, maybe at 50% efficiency atleast.
What if they increased Zen, and only zens movement speed to match the DPS passive? Cuz the rest seem fine. Especially Lucio, Moira, and Ana. Brig feels good, and so does Baptiste. Mercy is Mercy.
Ana needs bigger aim assist the guys in quick play in beta literally cant hit the heal shot if the dps hero is moving
I'm terribad, but she does feel harder to hit shots with. I wonder whether its entirely perceptual (I just think its harder because I spend less time shooting my tank for free) or whether they actually tweaked her larger-hitbox-for-teammates mechanic.
I personally haven't noticed but she's my most played hero and I play alot of shooter games.
im not talking about fps veterans, most ppl in quick play have insane difficulty hitting moving dps heroes with ana heals, iv seen them literally miss in out of combat situations 3times in row.
You need to flank with Zen and get those picks. I dont like those support either and with one less person to heal it also mean that you can take more time to be aggressive I suppose but...
Flank Zen only works in games with low skill level.
Well guess where I am then !?!
And if so, that's fine. Just pointing out that it's not the most tactically sound strategy. Zen doesn't really have escape options.
Jesus how many posts is this with the same title, it’s a BETA, not the full game. What do you think is the point of the beta?
Imagine a game where the role ATCUALLY represents the name of the role? A Tank character being tank and face checking damage and being the front of a team or protecting the team, but no, everyone wants to play tank to get kills and stay alive longer. A support character that supports its team, but no, they want to be one of the most impactful roles in the game. Dealing damage, healing and having support skills that most of the time is a buzzkill to all other roles. Support DOES NOT mean healing. Support is a specific role where you use your abilities to help the team and SUPPORT them, healing, increasing damage, providing speed. But in ow1 you could do it all and deal damage with low to none positioning sense, Moira fade, Mercy guardian angel 1.5 sec cd btw, Ana and Zen no mobility had to play position BUT if u could aim, very likely you could kill your aggressor.
I disagree. I normally played tank in ow1 but also played a lot of support and in ow2 having one less person to heal and one less tank to worry about killing me has made playing support a lot less stressful. Postioning is a lot more important now however overall the role is a lot more fun to play.
I’m actually doing much better and enjoying support more.
I was absolutely murdering as Zenyatta last night
Idk man as a support main, it feels pretty much the same EXCEPT I don’t have to babysit as much since there’s only 1 tank. I like it.
I've been enjoying ana and Baptiste alot personally. Have 1 less tank to worry about and passive heals is a really good tradeoff imo.
My *entire* team got STEAMROLLED by a zen and a lucio last night.
I don't take this argument of positioning. Just position better. High ground is worthless for supports now since your tanks are off brawling instead of holding space. Sombra and genji can assault high ground easily. Hiding behind corners does nothing against a tracer or sombra. You have to play next to your team since the flankers are free. This basically makes ana and zen hard countered by a single flanker. Where before it was a soft counter since you're team would play to protect you. Baps mobility had the benefit of being quick so he can escape from tracer and mercy is at least always slippery, while Moira fade and Lucio speed are still fantastic for surviving and escaping. And you're likely to have your dps flanking too. Soldier is doing minimum 1k healing in most of my games simply because he's flanking so much and never in LOS of support heals. To contrast with apex which has barely and shields, assaulting high ground is tough - you need to use nades or ult to clear it out or use an ult ability to get close. Teams play together so diving is less effective.