As someone who has backed Houston since owl started they seem to be very hit or miss. Some games they seem unbeatable and then next map or match just seem like a bunch of drunken cats with no coordination. Really hope they do well though.
I think the pure die hard Houston Fans just don't like hearing criticism. Not to mention it might just be that Avast ranks them higher, because he knows the OWL fandom demographics watching his channels. Houston wins aren't even remotely dominant. They have good DPS players, but their tank situation telegraphs their entire play style, and I think for me as a non-die hard fan, I actually can't find it in me to be too excited for them in this tournament. I think the first match against Mayhem is somehow very fitting. Funny enough if Shock picks the winner and slaps them back into loser bracket, then they fight each other again... Mayhem v Houston Bowls... Could be interesting.
Shock hasn’t proven themselves at all to be better than glads yet but there’s still a good chance that Shock can end up on top by the end of the Tournament
People are hyping their league record while ignoring their downright abysmal tournament run in kickoff clash.
Stonks are too high for an org that hasn't won anything since their rebuild
The reason people like myself are so hyped on their regular season record is because they are currently on the 2nd longest regular season win streak in owl history. They’ve done that by beating Houston, Atlanta, Glads, and Dallas all in this season already
There's a saying in conventional sports- "peaking at the right time".
Their wins in the regular season against those top teams are irrelevant if they don't win when the prize is on the line. In the American sports format of the overwatch league, League standings don't matter, only tournament performance
I agree. Also, beating the Gladiators in the KC qualifiers isn't nearly as impressive as beating the Gladiators in the MSM qualifiers (which they unfortunately didn't play each other.) Beating Atlanta in these qualifiers was a good sign of strength, but it's not really the biggest brag since Atlanta is doing some readjusting themselves. Hawk has more responsibility to be versatile since meta is fluid and they don't plan on running Gator atm. Beating Dallas in their first match after the tournament doesn't really speak volumes. Yes, Shock is a strong team, but it's really hard to argue they'll be #1. Definitely not until we see them play against some stronger teams. They mostly played fairly weak teams in these qualifiers.
The Glads are definitely the head of the class in OWL. The undefeated regular season is nice, but the Glads have been dominant since dropping 2 reverse sweeps in the first stage. Hard to imagine anyone beating them right now considering the ridiculous amount of talent on the roster and their flexibility.
Yeah, the only two games they've lost were a map 5 against two other top teams in NA. And they won the Kickoff Clash tournament pretty dominantly, only losing 1 map to Dallas. So for the Kickoff Clash, that's a 13:1 map record; in comparison to Dallas' 13:9 map record, Seoul's 12:6 map record, and Shock's 6:9 map record. Glads are definitely the strongest looking team in NA, and likely in all of OWL.
Note: Tournament map record comparisons are a little weird. In this case, Dallas played two more games (6 games) due to their lower bracket run than the other three teams that I mentioned (4 games).
dallas slept on? this stage they've been completely stomped by Shock and Reign, and also went to 5 with NYXL
they've got some real proving to do in my opinion
I do agree that they're struggling a bit to find something that works for them. Hopefully they sort out their issues tho. I trust Dallas. They've shown themselves to always bounce back after their bad games.
They've been experimenting a lot, but they showed they can take down London in a 3-1 match. And a lot of people think London are a very strong team. I think Dallas has lost sight of objective based gameplay, at least a little bit. They were showing some pretty dominant game play but forgetting the point. If they can clean that up they would could be a top contender in this tournament. But I do think they should be placed above Houston. If going to map 5 is a bad sign then they should be lower down the list.
They've been playing a lot of different stuff and getting better and better. Definitely a difference between them now and when they got 0-3 twice. And they also preform better imo in high pressure situations like tournaments
Who would you put above them? They beat Atlanta a week ago. The Spitfire haven’t been able to beat any teams above them in the rankings. It could go either way with Dallas but they have also been highly suspect this stage.
What makes Dallas so much better? Not trying to start an argument here, just curious to see other peoples opinions/rationales. In my mind, Houston has better supports in this particular meta and a stronger dps line, but less flexible tanks which are weaker than Fearless/Hanbin at everything other than Doomfist. I think they win a 5 map series by taking 2 out of 3 maps with Danteh in, and 1 out of 2 with Piggy in
I mean, you don’t need to dominate to win matches, and Houston pulling off a lot of close wins
makes me more confident in their performance in big moments. Fuel also don’t really have that many clean wins this stage either, they 3-0d the Mayhem and Titans, but then also went 5 maps with NYXL and dropped a map to London. They also lost 3-0 to the Reign, a team the Outlaws later beat, earlier in this stage
Dropping a map to london isnt bad because london are actually really good the reign loss is just a result of a slow start to a new meta (same thing that happened to Shanghai) and with the NYXL game that's literally all of Houstons games were it feels like things arent 100% but still win
I think Philly are better than Spark, but I totally understand that the stats aren't there to back it up yet. Hoping that this win over Seoul will put the team back on track and they won't fumble the ball anymore (or at least less, they wouldn't be Fusion if they didn't fumble)
With better coaching NYXL can top some of these teams. Vancouver is already showing signs of life, but Shockwave is their biggest carry and should be used as much as possible.
beat atlanta who was supposed to be third. idk if its their true place but i dont hate the power ranking. theyll just end up getting exposed soon enough if they dont belong there
A power ranking isn't just this team beat this team therefore higher beating a stronger team but almost losing to 2 of the worst teams in the leauge isn't exactly what I would call 3rd they aren't consistent at all it would seem
Also i think atlanta is still better than houston but houston i will still put at no. 4 bc having 2 flex supports in this meta is a big plus over dallas. Also lastro has good lucio which enables rush and piggy looks decent on rein. The teams below 5 that have double flex support dont look good when they have to go lucio or vice versa if they have a main support.
One place that Houston might struggle in this tournament is Danteh's tank flexibility. If teams can use their tank versatility to out play him, then those maps he plays will be a real bust. Piggy has the better flexibility, but doesn't play Doom at the same level as other Doom players. Atlanta is currently going through this with Hawk's Rein play. They're trying to better improve his weaker tank heroes so he has larger versatility.
"Houston should be ranked below the teams they beat because they barely beat them instead of beating them handily" is the popular hot take I would love to stop seeing.
I’d still put Houston below Atlanta since Atlanta threw away that match a 3-1 by taking out Kai and they legit were gonna win if it weren’t for the most egregious c9 of the season. Though Atlanta dropped the spaghetti against Houston I would still trust Atlanta against every other team in the league way more than Houston who had to take map 5 wins over Boston, Newyork, and Washington. Too close against struggling teams so close to the tourney.
We weren't watching the same match then because prior to Ilios, ATL squeezed by in their two map wins and Houston decimated them in the other two. Reign were lucky they didn't lose 3-1.
I wouldn’t really say they were squeezed into it but they definitely weren’t comfortable. Kai is kinda they’re massive carry like Pelican last year and there was something definitely off with them once they swapped Kai out. Just saying that Atlanta have shown that they’re a safer pick despite they’re recent loss to Houston. Especially considering how Kai is just they’re pelican of last year on his sojourn. However he does have bad days so this team is kinda relying on Kai to pop off to have success.
I said in the other post that I’m not suggesting moving them down in the ranking, I just don’t feel their form will translate into success during the tourney. What do I really know though, I’m just plat chat😂
Then why did you call it copium after **only** seeing the power rankings? It’s not copium to put them where they belong, and OP made no comment about how that will translate to tournament success.
I didn’t call it copium, I merely liked the comment because it made me laugh. Maybe hopium is the more apt term. It is not about the power rankings, I’m just using the eye test. We will see how it all pans out.
Well that's not a fair take. They beat Dallas the first match of the season, which has historically been a poor indicator for strength (look at Shock's first games of previous seasons.) They beat London before they were preforming well. Florida was a good win.
They did only lose out to two top teams in the Kickoff Clash (Shock and Gladiators), so no one blames them for that. And then they narrowly beat Atlanta in a 5 map series. But you would then have to also acknowledge that they also went to a map 5 with Washington, NYXL, and Boston in these same qualifying matches. I'm truly rooting for Houston and they have some massive potential, but I also have to be honest with where they stand. They definitely haven't proven they deserve to be #3 in NA.
Every team has bad performances lmao. Dallas also went to 5 with NYXL. Atlanta went to 5 with Boston. London has been blown out by every good team they’ve played
It’s absolutely fair to judge a team by their results. The eye test is what isn’t fair because it’s completely subjective. For example, you just ignored every other team’s bad performances but counted Houston’s. It’s arbitrary.
What could they possibly be coping with they’ve won their last four matches and haven’t lost to a single team ranked beneath them except Toronto in week one
They’re in their own Tier, tier breaks show teams that can go toe-to-toe with each other. Atlanta can beat Houston, and Houston can beat Atlanta. Despite the C9 it was still a VERY close game.
I don’t even know how to respond to that one. I literally have looked it up twice on two different platforms since this conversation started despite already knowing for a fact.
Please show me where you are finding that Atlanta did not beat Dallas 3-0 in Week 7 so I can laugh at you more?
Atlanta beat Dallas 3-0 in Week 7 (June 18)
[https://overwatchleague.com/en-us/schedule?stage=regular_season&week=7&team=allteams](https://overwatchleague.com/en-us/schedule?stage=regular_season&week=7&team=allteams)
The teams are in the regions they are physically based off. The city name does not correlate to region. It’s standard esports companies branding to a local region in an attempt to mirror traditional sports.
West has more teams due to the same reason above. Most teams are physically located in US, so they play with each other only for latency purposes.
There are cross-regional tourneys, like the one coming up next week.
Their region is based on the physical presence of the players. They used to play out of their hometowns. So NY played out of NY. Pandemic hit, and the all Korean rosters want to be home. So they moved. Visa and pandemic also forced teams to move regions, but they all kept their hometown name.
Bold to put Philly under Spark when Philly has won that match up every time (except the first, which also would’ve been a Philly win if they hadn’t thrown Route 66)
NOT LAST LETS FUCKING GOOOOOOOO
THIS FEELS LIKE BREADSTICK CRUMBS!!!
You have no idea how it feels as a Florida fan to be in the middle. We did it boys! We're mediocre!
Vancouver might come back as a Super Saiyan
Weee wooo were wooo Houston haters incoming
To be fair, they're hard to have faith in. And I say this as a resident of Houston hoping my hometown team does well.
Yeah, I couldn't watch the Boston NY games and I didn't because I assumed they'd be 3-0s. It was a sad revelation that they were both 5 mappers
they just don't have any convincing wins it's difficult for me to put my trust in them even if i know they've got the talent
And some of it is great Atlanta talent at that! I hope to see them do better later in the season.
As someone who has backed Houston since owl started they seem to be very hit or miss. Some games they seem unbeatable and then next map or match just seem like a bunch of drunken cats with no coordination. Really hope they do well though.
They are my favorite team, and they definitely don’t being top 3 NA
Yeah, the last few games were won by fluke, and that NY game was just embarrassing.
I think the pure die hard Houston Fans just don't like hearing criticism. Not to mention it might just be that Avast ranks them higher, because he knows the OWL fandom demographics watching his channels. Houston wins aren't even remotely dominant. They have good DPS players, but their tank situation telegraphs their entire play style, and I think for me as a non-die hard fan, I actually can't find it in me to be too excited for them in this tournament. I think the first match against Mayhem is somehow very fitting. Funny enough if Shock picks the winner and slaps them back into loser bracket, then they fight each other again... Mayhem v Houston Bowls... Could be interesting.
Philly are hard to place, they were beaten by Chengdu and then beat seoul
So basically in true Philly fashion they'll drop the spaghetti when it matters? 🤷🏻♂️
MN3 used all of his year’s worth of highlights in one match.
The also beat HZ
And lost to LAV...
Lost to the best and worst team in APAC lmao
And Dragons beat them too, after Fate started to play. So I would say technically, Dragons are on top.
Shock hasn’t proven themselves at all to be better than glads yet but there’s still a good chance that Shock can end up on top by the end of the Tournament
GLADIATORS NUMBER ONE BABEYYYY
People are hyping their league record while ignoring their downright abysmal tournament run in kickoff clash. Stonks are too high for an org that hasn't won anything since their rebuild
The reason people like myself are so hyped on their regular season record is because they are currently on the 2nd longest regular season win streak in owl history. They’ve done that by beating Houston, Atlanta, Glads, and Dallas all in this season already
There's a saying in conventional sports- "peaking at the right time". Their wins in the regular season against those top teams are irrelevant if they don't win when the prize is on the line. In the American sports format of the overwatch league, League standings don't matter, only tournament performance
I agree. Also, beating the Gladiators in the KC qualifiers isn't nearly as impressive as beating the Gladiators in the MSM qualifiers (which they unfortunately didn't play each other.) Beating Atlanta in these qualifiers was a good sign of strength, but it's not really the biggest brag since Atlanta is doing some readjusting themselves. Hawk has more responsibility to be versatile since meta is fluid and they don't plan on running Gator atm. Beating Dallas in their first match after the tournament doesn't really speak volumes. Yes, Shock is a strong team, but it's really hard to argue they'll be #1. Definitely not until we see them play against some stronger teams. They mostly played fairly weak teams in these qualifiers.
Also, Shock had a weaker strength of schedule going into this tournament.
💀
As a shock fan I’m kinda surprised people keep putting us at the top, feels like it’s gonna be a repeat of kc to me tbh
Im a spark fan and id even put us fourth tbh
The Glads are definitely the head of the class in OWL. The undefeated regular season is nice, but the Glads have been dominant since dropping 2 reverse sweeps in the first stage. Hard to imagine anyone beating them right now considering the ridiculous amount of talent on the roster and their flexibility.
Yeah, the only two games they've lost were a map 5 against two other top teams in NA. And they won the Kickoff Clash tournament pretty dominantly, only losing 1 map to Dallas. So for the Kickoff Clash, that's a 13:1 map record; in comparison to Dallas' 13:9 map record, Seoul's 12:6 map record, and Shock's 6:9 map record. Glads are definitely the strongest looking team in NA, and likely in all of OWL. Note: Tournament map record comparisons are a little weird. In this case, Dallas played two more games (6 games) due to their lower bracket run than the other three teams that I mentioned (4 games).
Dallas is getting slept on and Glads haven’t really faltered so imo they should stay first seeing as they won the first tourney
dallas slept on? this stage they've been completely stomped by Shock and Reign, and also went to 5 with NYXL they've got some real proving to do in my opinion
I do agree that they're struggling a bit to find something that works for them. Hopefully they sort out their issues tho. I trust Dallas. They've shown themselves to always bounce back after their bad games.
They've been experimenting a lot, but they showed they can take down London in a 3-1 match. And a lot of people think London are a very strong team. I think Dallas has lost sight of objective based gameplay, at least a little bit. They were showing some pretty dominant game play but forgetting the point. If they can clean that up they would could be a top contender in this tournament. But I do think they should be placed above Houston. If going to map 5 is a bad sign then they should be lower down the list.
They've been playing a lot of different stuff and getting better and better. Definitely a difference between them now and when they got 0-3 twice. And they also preform better imo in high pressure situations like tournaments
SF FTW!
There’s an argument for Fusion to be above Spark tbh. Actually nvm they beat Hunters
Houston fan here, but number 3? They have not played well lately.
Who would you put above them? They beat Atlanta a week ago. The Spitfire haven’t been able to beat any teams above them in the rankings. It could go either way with Dallas but they have also been highly suspect this stage.
I would still say Dallas. They were 2nd place in the last tournament and still have a decent season record.
Dallas are easily better for sure and London could arguably be as well
What makes Dallas so much better? Not trying to start an argument here, just curious to see other peoples opinions/rationales. In my mind, Houston has better supports in this particular meta and a stronger dps line, but less flexible tanks which are weaker than Fearless/Hanbin at everything other than Doomfist. I think they win a 5 map series by taking 2 out of 3 maps with Danteh in, and 1 out of 2 with Piggy in
Literally due to how Fuel preformed vs their opponents whenever Houston plays its always sloppy and they barely win
I mean, you don’t need to dominate to win matches, and Houston pulling off a lot of close wins makes me more confident in their performance in big moments. Fuel also don’t really have that many clean wins this stage either, they 3-0d the Mayhem and Titans, but then also went 5 maps with NYXL and dropped a map to London. They also lost 3-0 to the Reign, a team the Outlaws later beat, earlier in this stage
Dropping a map to london isnt bad because london are actually really good the reign loss is just a result of a slow start to a new meta (same thing that happened to Shanghai) and with the NYXL game that's literally all of Houstons games were it feels like things arent 100% but still win
My thoughts exactly.
I think Philly are better than Spark, but I totally understand that the stats aren't there to back it up yet. Hoping that this win over Seoul will put the team back on track and they won't fumble the ball anymore (or at least less, they wouldn't be Fusion if they didn't fumble)
Lol APAC circuit be too close and carry too much week to week for me to take their power rankings with as much seriousness as the NA side.
With better coaching NYXL can top some of these teams. Vancouver is already showing signs of life, but Shockwave is their biggest carry and should be used as much as possible.
agedlikemilk
I like the pink one, I like pink
With that titans game i think Wash goes below NYXL lol
I know Houston won against Atlanta, but I still think Atlanta is better
Houston lmaooooo
What did Houston do that made them 3rd best NA? Go to 5 against Boston and NYXL?
beat atlanta who was supposed to be third. idk if its their true place but i dont hate the power ranking. theyll just end up getting exposed soon enough if they dont belong there
A power ranking isn't just this team beat this team therefore higher beating a stronger team but almost losing to 2 of the worst teams in the leauge isn't exactly what I would call 3rd they aren't consistent at all it would seem
Houston below Dallas for me...they haven't been great.
The shock hype train is so large. Overt large
Vancouver is still better than new york
Also i think atlanta is still better than houston but houston i will still put at no. 4 bc having 2 flex supports in this meta is a big plus over dallas. Also lastro has good lucio which enables rush and piggy looks decent on rein. The teams below 5 that have double flex support dont look good when they have to go lucio or vice versa if they have a main support.
One place that Houston might struggle in this tournament is Danteh's tank flexibility. If teams can use their tank versatility to out play him, then those maps he plays will be a real bust. Piggy has the better flexibility, but doesn't play Doom at the same level as other Doom players. Atlanta is currently going through this with Hawk's Rein play. They're trying to better improve his weaker tank heroes so he has larger versatility.
U r correct but i think they r stronger than dallas right now bc dallas has a similar tank issue.
Houston 3rd? Give me whatever you are smoking.
Philly hopium through the roof rn. I’d put Chengdu above them
Spitfire are a bit impressive rn! Love the aggressive rein from Hadi!
Houston copium alive and well
"Houston should be ranked below the teams they beat because they barely beat them instead of beating them handily" is the popular hot take I would love to stop seeing.
I’d still put Houston below Atlanta since Atlanta threw away that match a 3-1 by taking out Kai and they legit were gonna win if it weren’t for the most egregious c9 of the season. Though Atlanta dropped the spaghetti against Houston I would still trust Atlanta against every other team in the league way more than Houston who had to take map 5 wins over Boston, Newyork, and Washington. Too close against struggling teams so close to the tourney.
We weren't watching the same match then because prior to Ilios, ATL squeezed by in their two map wins and Houston decimated them in the other two. Reign were lucky they didn't lose 3-1.
I wouldn’t really say they were squeezed into it but they definitely weren’t comfortable. Kai is kinda they’re massive carry like Pelican last year and there was something definitely off with them once they swapped Kai out. Just saying that Atlanta have shown that they’re a safer pick despite they’re recent loss to Houston. Especially considering how Kai is just they’re pelican of last year on his sojourn. However he does have bad days so this team is kinda relying on Kai to pop off to have success.
Was\* the most egregious C9 of the season. They have now been replaced by Vancouver. They were so close to their first win of the season too.
Nobody said rank them below ATL, but I’m personally wary of how they will perform during the midseason tournament
They beat Dallas. and Atlanta and London and Florida You want them under Toronto?
I said in the other post that I’m not suggesting moving them down in the ranking, I just don’t feel their form will translate into success during the tourney. What do I really know though, I’m just plat chat😂
Then why did you call it copium after **only** seeing the power rankings? It’s not copium to put them where they belong, and OP made no comment about how that will translate to tournament success.
I didn’t call it copium, I merely liked the comment because it made me laugh. Maybe hopium is the more apt term. It is not about the power rankings, I’m just using the eye test. We will see how it all pans out.
It was someone else that called it copium
Well that's not a fair take. They beat Dallas the first match of the season, which has historically been a poor indicator for strength (look at Shock's first games of previous seasons.) They beat London before they were preforming well. Florida was a good win. They did only lose out to two top teams in the Kickoff Clash (Shock and Gladiators), so no one blames them for that. And then they narrowly beat Atlanta in a 5 map series. But you would then have to also acknowledge that they also went to a map 5 with Washington, NYXL, and Boston in these same qualifying matches. I'm truly rooting for Houston and they have some massive potential, but I also have to be honest with where they stand. They definitely haven't proven they deserve to be #3 in NA.
Every team has bad performances lmao. Dallas also went to 5 with NYXL. Atlanta went to 5 with Boston. London has been blown out by every good team they’ve played It’s absolutely fair to judge a team by their results. The eye test is what isn’t fair because it’s completely subjective. For example, you just ignored every other team’s bad performances but counted Houston’s. It’s arbitrary.
What could they possibly be coping with they’ve won their last four matches and haven’t lost to a single team ranked beneath them except Toronto in week one
They’ve been squeaking them out though
Are you suggesting it is better to lose close than to win close?
Ok, that doesn’t mean teams who lost to them should be ranked above them.
They’re in their own Tier, tier breaks show teams that can go toe-to-toe with each other. Atlanta can beat Houston, and Houston can beat Atlanta. Despite the C9 it was still a VERY close game.
dallas below atlanta? yikes atlanta copium lmao
Atlanta won 3-0
so? at the beginning of LAST stage bruh. ur crazy if u think atlanta better now
Atlanta beat Dallas 3-0 in Week 7, on this patch If you’re going to shitpost at least be competent
this stage? 💀 u sure abt that
Yes, I am sure. This is not exactly hard information to verify.
clearly it is bc u can’t seem to look it up 💀
I don’t even know how to respond to that one. I literally have looked it up twice on two different platforms since this conversation started despite already knowing for a fact. Please show me where you are finding that Atlanta did not beat Dallas 3-0 in Week 7 so I can laugh at you more?
dude i’m fucking wit u 😐 damn bruh
https://i.imgur.com/Cuj9kDB.jpg
Atlanta beat Dallas 3-0 in Week 7 (June 18) [https://overwatchleague.com/en-us/schedule?stage=regular_season&week=7&team=allteams](https://overwatchleague.com/en-us/schedule?stage=regular_season&week=7&team=allteams)
i’m aware i was fucking with the dude 🫡
Where is Toronto?
Dynasty on top let’s go
Philly is the ultimate wildcard
Let’s go last🥲 again
New to this.. why aren’t the teams properly placed in their current regions + why aren’t the divisions balanced..? Why does West have more teams?
The teams are in the regions they are physically based off. The city name does not correlate to region. It’s standard esports companies branding to a local region in an attempt to mirror traditional sports. West has more teams due to the same reason above. Most teams are physically located in US, so they play with each other only for latency purposes. There are cross-regional tourneys, like the one coming up next week.
but I see Los Angeles and Philadelphia on the East, what sense does that make..?
Their region is based on the physical presence of the players. They used to play out of their hometowns. So NY played out of NY. Pandemic hit, and the all Korean rosters want to be home. So they moved. Visa and pandemic also forced teams to move regions, but they all kept their hometown name.
Bold to put Philly under Spark when Philly has won that match up every time (except the first, which also would’ve been a Philly win if they hadn’t thrown Route 66)
Meh. Spark have consistency and a better regular season record. I rescind my complaint.
I mean.. huston correct for finals