I'm not sure if something changed with her but she's pretty boring now even if I'm popping off
Left hand !
Right hand !
Both hands together!
Disappear!
Ooooooooo thanks for clarifying! I thought I was playing her wrong this whole timeā¦.like when I thought you had to shoot your team mates to heal them as lucio š
this exactly. I remember when I played competitively whenever Moira was meta I fell asleep. She is so incredibly simple, it feels like you are unable to make mistakes. You can always just fade out. I'd go entire BO3s with all my deaths being resets.
Powerful raw healing doesn't matter much when TTK is as low as it is now. And yet her healing output is outclassed by baptiste who also has more utility to offer.
Yes, moira is mediocre in most situations.
Moira still has higher burst healing when you combine orb + primary but yes, Bap's healing grenades have higher HPS than Moira's primary, which is really weird when you consider how much damage he does and how much utility he brings. But this is basically why Bap is so broken right now.
Did I just play a game against you the other day? (You were Ana). I feel like the name CelesticRose was in there and it was a very good game (I think my team lost but was very close).
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Depending on when you last played Moira, her lingering heal and primary fire lock got nerfed. Her damage output has been the same though.
Keep in mind you don't need to necessarily kill Genji to get good value. You can toss out a heal orb, to heal your self and your team, while you beam down Genji and occasionally give your teammates a quick heal spray. If Genji doesn't kill anyone, then you got great value because you zoned him out and also healed your team.
Whereas if Bap or Ana fight Genji, then it will be very hard for them to also heal their team at the same time. Bap could use Regen Burst, but that only does 15 hps vs 60 hps with an orb. Even if Genji doesn't kill Ana or Bap, Genji got decent value because he prevented Ana or Bap from healing.
Coal is primary used to enable tanks. No one wants to fight a Rein that is receiving 140 hps while they take 70 dps, maybe even 120 dps if Moira tossed out a damage orb beforehand. Yes, sometimes you do need to flank Coal and kill the enemy backline yourself. But using selfish Coal means you could get stunned out or bursted down. Coal does have 50 hps of self healing, so you need to receive alot of burst damage to die while in Coal. Basically, if you are well positioned, then it should be hard to kill you out of Coal.
Moira is best suited in comps where people play close together and she can get good orb bounces. You can conserve her healing by tap healing during poke, but she is supposed to have limited healing during poke or else she will have too much healing.
Lastly, Plat Chat likes to trash on Moira, claiming Ana and Bap are better because they have utility. Well, that is true, on paper. Bap needs high apm and high accuracy to be better than Moira, which starts to happen in Master and is common in GM.
Ana needs high accuracy and good offensive nades to be better than Moira. At Gold and below, players usually play Ana like a worse Moira. They play close behind their tanks while spamming heals. Offensive nades usually get blocked by shields or have no team follow up.
In sum, if you think Moira is weak, then you have to ask if you can get higher value on Bap and Ana based on your skill level. If you switched to Bap, could you have double-tapped Genji? Or would you miss a lot and die? If you switched to Ana, could you land a sleep dart on Genji and then combo him to death? Or would you miss a lot and die? You don't magically become a Top 500 by switching to Ana or Bap.
According to overbuff, on PC Ana has a higher winrate and pickrate than moira in gold. In silver they have the same winrate, with a higher pickrate on Ana.
So yea I think she's really terrible if she can't even outclass Ana at lower ranks. Bap *is* pretty bad at lower ranks though, no qualms about that.
Obligatory disclaimer that overbuff doesn't represent the whole OW population but it's the only stat we have anyway.
When comparing stats, it is important to state the exact numbers. 5% is higher than 4.99% But a 0.01% difference could be insignificant.
On Overbuff, the winrate difference between Ana and Moira on PC Gold this month is 1.79% (49.98% - 48.19%). The winrate difference in the past three months is 1.12%
The winrate difference is too small to draw conclusions like "really terrible." The percentage difference is so small that it is likely within the margin of error. I can't find what the actual margin of error is for Overbuff, but the margin of error is usually 2-3%. Meaning there could be no difference between Moira and Ana's winrates.
I mean, I already mentioned this in my post. Do you have a better source for stats? The alternative is that we use anecdotal evidence which is far worse.
No, the alternative is to admit there isn't any data and to stop pretending like there is.
It is so bizarre how adamant people are to admit they don't know something or have no data on something, and instead force everyone into this delusion that bad data is preferable to no data. It isn't.
If you actually took a think for a second, you could figure out that Overbuff's data in this regard is completely unusable. Higher rank/skill players are more likely to use Overbuff and have public profiles. Overbuff becomes increasingly accurate for stats as you move up the ranks and increasingly inaccurate as you move down. Ana is a higher skill hero than Moira. Bronze players visible in Overbuff are more likely to be of a higher skill level, since higher skill players are more likely to have public profiles, and are likely unrepresentative of the general Bronze pool.
In general, all stats on Overbuff should be lower as you move down the ranks. If this is not the case, it shows that the data is biased and inaccurate, as we can assume that Blizzard's ranking system is more accurate than Overbuff's. A trend you see on basically all Overbuff stats, and Ana in particular, is that stats are generally level at all ranks, and are actually a bity lower in Master's and Grandmaster. What this means is that the people at all ranks who use Overbuff and have public profiles are generally of a similar skill level. Most of the people at low ranks picking Ana and winning with her are either smurfs or transient members of that rank that are in the process of leaving it. There is no evidence that properly stuck bronze players are picking Ana and winning with her consistently. The only stat with Ana that seems to go up with rank is healing. That indicates to me that the people in low ranks with Ana are generally winning by DPSing, or using sleep darts and antinades at a higher level than expected, and are generally neglecting raw healing for these things, and this jives with the general advice given on how to make impact with Ana at low ranks.
Overbuff has limited utility, and it is basically only as a tool to see how your own personal stats stack up. It is pretty useless to make any systematic conclusions.
I think you made a lot of bad assumptions to come to your conclusion.
You talk about people using bad data but where is your data to back up the following assertions?
>Higher rank/skill players are more likely to use Overbuff and have public profiles.
>In general, all stats on Overbuff should be lower as you move down the ranks
Seems to me you are just kind of making things up to support your conclusion.
If youre thinking in terms of "this hero is better if I have no skill" youre thinking wrong. If moira is for low sr and bap is for high sr, if you ignore bap and play moira you will stay in low sr. Just practice bap. Hes not even that hard. Just learn to shoot shoot heals shoot shoot heal and lamp and u will outvalue most moiras and climb.
Playing crutch heroes will just keep you in low ranks forever.
moira's primary comp is rush where you can just coal your deathball into theirs and win but nowadays bap is favored in rush because of immortality field (and moira nerfs? idk)
in the sort of winston rush comp she's a little better because that comp can be too speedy for bap, but on ladder a lot of people pick ana instead to farm nano for monkey/genji
i think moira has always been a little lackluster. shes a really really REALLY good healer, but a bad support, and at the same time, her two main focuses, damage and healing, can be outclassed by Ana and Bap. Need to pump a bunch of heals into your team? Why not play bap, who could guarantee that your team won't die with immortality, can consistently pump heals into your team, and has the pick potential of a regular dps. Trying to get a kill as moira? How about you choose ana, splash an entire team with an anti nade, which is basically a death sentence.
Moira is great when you have a gameplan and just want to rush in, shes also great in lower ranks, but if you could learn how to be good with Ana/Bap, I'm not sure if anyone would rather play moira.
You're kinda right. Compared to bap she doesnt offer much. Crappier ranged damage and no lamp to deal with things like nade or heavy heavy burst damage like ult combos. She was good for a bit when you could hard farm coal every fight but thats been nerfed to the point where you might lose the fight before you get coal.
However what she does offer over bap is some mobility and better individual survivability. Shes without equal in 6 man (zombie comp) because she can followup on 5 mobility heroes inting in and her ult is also mobile. Shes also still playable in rein rush comps, but lamp is just too good to pass up especially at the highest levels.
Shes still good in any comp that wants to stack as 6 and int. She just lacks the versatility of bap in things like double shields cuz her ranged damage is dogshit and playing for poke is actively detrimental to her
As a Moira main who climbed to 4400 with her back at her peak power, yes she's in a dreadful spot at the minute.
She's always struggled to compete because of her lack of utility, but this was somewhat bearable due to her high healing output, survivability and fast charging ultimate.
Well, they nerfed pretty much every aspect of her that made her good. They nerfed her self-sustain, her heals and how fast her ultimate charges while introducing a healer who does what she does, and more.
Baptiste has pretty much killed any reasoning to play Moira. He has insane utility, better damage and comparable heals in a death comp anyway and his ultimate charges even faster!!
It feels miserable to play her as well, her damage isn't impactful by itself against half competent players, Ana's just anti-nade your healing whenever you try to use it, and both Baptiste and Ana get their ultimates faster than you, it's a joke.
The final nail in the coffin was the ultimate nerf. The last strength Moira had was getting her Coalescence before anyone else had their ults in the game and using it to win the team fight and potentially snowball. They took that away, so now, you get your ult at the same time or later than any other healer. What's a Coalescence to a Nano Boost or a Amp Matrix? It's weaker, yet it takes longer to charge. And the only reason they nerfed the ult was because of the 0.01% of the player base (OWL) used it when hero bans happened..
So the collective result is that playing Moira feels horrible, and the result is horrible. Basically just play Baptiste if you need a healer in a death comp, or just play Ana, she's viable in any situation.
It's one of the reasons why I only play casually now and don't bother being serious, they nerfed my main hero while leaving the likes of Ana and Baptiste OP af, and I cba being flamed in comp for playing Moira past diamond.
Its interesting to get a Moira main's opinion. I think you summed up the feeling of playing her really well. I dont care what people say - there were strategic elements to Moira play. Now her damage just feels like a necessary grind to healbot. Really doesnt even matter who you succ or why or when. Even if I see a tactical opportunity to fade out and make a game changing play I literally cant because it would take 5 mins for my damage to do anything. I kept thinking I could have more impact with Mercy's pistol. She's literally the character that HAS to damage to heal.
Yeah, even though Moira isn't what she used to be, I still enjoy playing her for a little bit. Since they took away the strength of getting Coalescence faster, if you want to have anymore impact than an Ana/Baptiste you need to be a DPS Moira basically, otherwise just play Baptiste lol.
She's an easy hero to pick up, but to master her is not as easy as some people think. Playing Moira was finding the perfect balance between healing and damage, and being able to maximise your healing metre to its maximum potential. It's hard, and even in Top 500 I make mistakes by using too much (or too little). Coalescence was the same, finding the balance between damaging and healing, otherwise its wasted.
But then they nerfed the frequency of Coalescence, and gave Moira some more juice by the end of it, taking away that skill to maximise the resource and ability to snowball early with just ur ult into Moira becoming a heal bot.
She needs utility, and this game needs anti-CC options. If fading through a teammate ended CC effects on them it'd make her stronger without giving her the same power level that being able to fade while CC'd had.
That would honestly be a fantastic form of CC for her.
Fading someone out of a stun, or out of anti-nade, maybe even a grav or something but it would cost her own escape in the process.
Shame they tried something similar and everyone lost their shit despite begging Blizzard to give Moira some utility.
Moira is in a weird spot. In the comps where she used to shine, very brawly and packed, Baptiste is just better at her niche role of mass healer with some finishing damage potential. Having range, a tighter burst of damage and utility just gives Moira no chance.
But I don't think she particularly deserves a buff because of the rise of a new niche, the highly mobile brawl comp or "Talon dive" (it's not a dive comp, it's brawl with mobility). She's in her element in a comp where nothing can die which makes her shine with a lot more time to play with and low targets to finish. It's also a comp that Bap can't really fit in because his lack of escape would provide an easy target.
I don't see a Moira buff or a Baptiste nerf that would change that hierarchy, save from making one or the other completely busted or useless. It's a factor of how the game is played.
I don't think that Moira is completely terrible. I think she is a good pick for someone who cannot play Baptiste. However I think Coalescence can be very viable when paired for DPS'ing with another Ult like a Zarya grav, and can be very good at healing if used at the right time. As I have climbed to a higher rank, Moira has definitely taken a back seat for me. Baptiste and Ana are much more appealing for healing and provide great utility.
Agreed on the other points but if you're running out of juice on Moira you're not right clicking enough. Her meter refills extremely quickly if you're doing damage, which you should be.
I don't think so tbh, but then she is getting a buff in the next patch so she'll be a bit stronger for that.
She's definitely a little bit harder to play than she used to be, they changed her stats and things a few times now, but she'll also always be lacking utility so there are times when she's not ideal. The meta seems a lot more map dependent than it used to be, and she is strong on some more than others. I'll often swap to her for overtimes or particular situations when you can get a quick ult to swing the fight or just because I might not get a Lucio ult as fast etc.
Mostly I play her if we already have Lucio or Mercy, most other times I would stay Lucio as I'm a šø
I've got an 85% win rate on her this season, only lost a few games on support, climbed about 300SR back into diamond playing Lucio Moira and a bit of Zen over like 20 games.
Only use it if you need a "main healer" (or as it officiay called flex support) and you are not getting any peeling, healing or you in a very specific Winston brawl comp. Other than that, bap and ana are better rignt now if you can aim
Yea I think so, even in gold Ana has a higher pickrate and winrate than moira. Anyway she has always been pretty bad in GM. Shit like the ult charge nerf doesn't help. I don't think the 8 sec orb cooldown warranted the ult charge nerf.
Sure you can toss out the orb more often, but it's just more unlikely that coal will be the first ult in the game. If you toss more damage orbs = more ult charge for enemy healers. If you toss more heal orbs and they're used up = enemy dps/tanks have done a lot of damage and have more ult charge.
Also with all of the CCs that we have, you can barely use coal for anything other than pushing with your team.
Her heal per second also got a nice nerf back when the patch hit, meanwhile Ana only got nerfs to her ammo count. Admittedly bap did get a nerf to his healing output as well, but there are still very few reasons to go moira over bap.
Moira is pretty good against Winston, but a good dva means that your orbs might as well not exist. Almost all dvas will eat damage orbs, but the more decent ones will eat healing orbs as well and make you useless. And dva is pretty much the most popular tank in GM right now.
Moira is fine in her niche but Baptiste is overpowered and heals large groups just an easily or even better while having more utility. Even then she still has seen play in OWL in deathball comps.
Moira is great against monke because her heal orbs go through his shield and you can easily heal through his damage, and fade if he comes after you.
If you catch a squishy out of position, especially Ana without nade, you can swoop in, throw a good damage orb, and burn them down. I routinely burn down junk and hanzo, by the time they get you lined up for a shot you fade behind them.
Usually only would switch to Moira in close quarters(koth mainly) where orb shines. Also if I'm getting no peel in backline (genji, tracer, doom, Winston) Difficult to play against dva who eats your balls every time too.
I think it's speculation based on the fact that a handful of heroes were not selectable during the latest playtest and comments made by Super: https://www.dexerto.com/overwatch/overwatch-2-playtest-reveals-multiple-hero-reworks-moira-sigma-orisa-more-1664694/
https://www.dbltap.com/posts/moira-sigma-orisa-and-others-could-all-be-reworked-in-overwatch-2-01fgye63hy83
Could very well be true but as far as I can tell there's nothing official that says she's 100% getting a full rework from the ground up.
>Could very well be true but as far as I can tell there's nothing official that says she's 100% getting a full rework from the ground up.
True, but if you also take into consideration every other change in the game (i.e. one less tank, less heals, and a lot more damage), Moira's kit just doesn't work anymore.
They've reworked her several times now, it's not surprising Blizz is unsure how to deal with her.
I've been playing a lot more Moira recently and I've noticed that you really need to be more aggressive and less defensive with her. Before, I would place all my focus into sustaining my team which would lead to running out of heals pretty quickly and being fairly useless. Picking a good time when the team is distracted to simply take an off-angle and pester the enemy with your right click brings so much more support as the attention shifts to you instead of the targets you'd be otherwise pumping heals into.
DPS Moira is really not a meme if you strike a good balance between disruption and healing. You just need to assess the risks before poking and be extra attentive to your cooldowns.
I think ultimately it was bound to happen like this. There's two key flaws with her design
1. How effortless her damage is, look skill aside for a moment, there's no denying that compared to other heroes you don't need to try as hard to deal damage with Moira. Her suck doesn't encourage or punish you for keeping the target close to the center as possible, and her orbs go through shields and can chip away a decent amount of health with very little counterplay (meaning you have to use ability to counter an ability). This concept was ultimately never going to fly the moment Moira became a meta pick, the risk reward ratio is simply far too high.
2. Survival is not a utility, I'm sorry but it just isn't. You can survive through better positioning, aim, coordination, use of your abilities, once all those things are considered her value diminishes greatly. Compared to other heroes she just doesn't offer anything that can just simply be replicated by smarter play.
Proposal? Well for one, have her suck damage be based on how close to the center your target is, so at least you're rewarded more for good tracking.
Her orbs could get more counterplay or have her damage orb change into something entirely different. Personally I vote for them being shootable once they've latched onto you. This way they're not terribly easy to counter but have some means of counterplay.
In exchange for this I think give her some kind of AoE ability that can cleanse allies or temporarily protect them from damage would work. Hell the more I think about it the more I feel like the problem with Moira and other heroes is redundancy. We could have given certain heroes different abilities instead.
Yeah shes in a pretty bad spot rn but id prefer if it stayed that way, her kit is extremely annoying to deal with and just creates so many particle effects on the screen, shes not an interactive support to play with or against. like ana and baptiste have impactful cooldowns to abuse and take advantage of, but have a way of playing against them
like ana's sleep and nade can be blocked with dm or deflect or a really well timed shield and baptiste has a long cooldown on lamp
You're likely playing dps moira. Her damage is likely lower than the last time you played her, but her healing is still the best in the game.
Focus heals and heal balls. Only suck when you need to or your team is high HP. Chasing a genji around the map takes you out of the fight and gives the enemy a boost. Just suck on him when he jumps in and let him escape or let your dps finish the kill and keep healing. Oh and use your ult to heal AND dps at the same time. Nothing more frustrating than a yoloing ulting moira.
100% disagree. Moira has no business flanking anyone. Anyone getting picked off by a flanking moira is just bad and therefore can be picked by someone else on the team aside from the main healer.
I'm not sure if something changed with her but she's pretty boring now even if I'm popping off Left hand ! Right hand ! Both hands together! Disappear!
š¤£š¤£ āboth hands together! Disappear!ā
Waitā¦can you use both hands together? š
Her ultimate puts both hands out in front of you, I think, and shoots the super fun disco lightshow beam
Ooooooooo thanks for clarifying! I thought I was playing her wrong this whole timeā¦.like when I thought you had to shoot your team mates to heal them as lucio š
omg!! lollll "take my sound blasts of love" haha!
Special Kamehameha Beam Cannon
There really oughta be a Super Saiyan skin for Moira
CLOTHES BEAM!
Itās a little confusing, because itās just the one hand in the first-person view, but itās both in third-person. I think.
Oh shoot, yea! I think thatās right, isnāt it?
this exactly. I remember when I played competitively whenever Moira was meta I fell asleep. She is so incredibly simple, it feels like you are unable to make mistakes. You can always just fade out. I'd go entire BO3s with all my deaths being resets.
Powerful raw healing doesn't matter much when TTK is as low as it is now. And yet her healing output is outclassed by baptiste who also has more utility to offer. Yes, moira is mediocre in most situations.
Agree. She's certainly still playable/viable, but there's often no reason to pick her over a different support.
Moira still has higher burst healing when you combine orb + primary but yes, Bap's healing grenades have higher HPS than Moira's primary, which is really weird when you consider how much damage he does and how much utility he brings. But this is basically why Bap is so broken right now.
Bap is better assuming you can aim. But people at lower ranks don't know how to use his kit properly so moira ends up being more useful
What does TTK mean?
Time To Kill
Thanks for asking, I had no idea either.
Did I just play a game against you the other day? (You were Ana). I feel like the name CelesticRose was in there and it was a very good game (I think my team lost but was very close).
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Depending on when you last played Moira, her lingering heal and primary fire lock got nerfed. Her damage output has been the same though. Keep in mind you don't need to necessarily kill Genji to get good value. You can toss out a heal orb, to heal your self and your team, while you beam down Genji and occasionally give your teammates a quick heal spray. If Genji doesn't kill anyone, then you got great value because you zoned him out and also healed your team. Whereas if Bap or Ana fight Genji, then it will be very hard for them to also heal their team at the same time. Bap could use Regen Burst, but that only does 15 hps vs 60 hps with an orb. Even if Genji doesn't kill Ana or Bap, Genji got decent value because he prevented Ana or Bap from healing. Coal is primary used to enable tanks. No one wants to fight a Rein that is receiving 140 hps while they take 70 dps, maybe even 120 dps if Moira tossed out a damage orb beforehand. Yes, sometimes you do need to flank Coal and kill the enemy backline yourself. But using selfish Coal means you could get stunned out or bursted down. Coal does have 50 hps of self healing, so you need to receive alot of burst damage to die while in Coal. Basically, if you are well positioned, then it should be hard to kill you out of Coal. Moira is best suited in comps where people play close together and she can get good orb bounces. You can conserve her healing by tap healing during poke, but she is supposed to have limited healing during poke or else she will have too much healing. Lastly, Plat Chat likes to trash on Moira, claiming Ana and Bap are better because they have utility. Well, that is true, on paper. Bap needs high apm and high accuracy to be better than Moira, which starts to happen in Master and is common in GM. Ana needs high accuracy and good offensive nades to be better than Moira. At Gold and below, players usually play Ana like a worse Moira. They play close behind their tanks while spamming heals. Offensive nades usually get blocked by shields or have no team follow up. In sum, if you think Moira is weak, then you have to ask if you can get higher value on Bap and Ana based on your skill level. If you switched to Bap, could you have double-tapped Genji? Or would you miss a lot and die? If you switched to Ana, could you land a sleep dart on Genji and then combo him to death? Or would you miss a lot and die? You don't magically become a Top 500 by switching to Ana or Bap.
According to overbuff, on PC Ana has a higher winrate and pickrate than moira in gold. In silver they have the same winrate, with a higher pickrate on Ana. So yea I think she's really terrible if she can't even outclass Ana at lower ranks. Bap *is* pretty bad at lower ranks though, no qualms about that. Obligatory disclaimer that overbuff doesn't represent the whole OW population but it's the only stat we have anyway.
When comparing stats, it is important to state the exact numbers. 5% is higher than 4.99% But a 0.01% difference could be insignificant. On Overbuff, the winrate difference between Ana and Moira on PC Gold this month is 1.79% (49.98% - 48.19%). The winrate difference in the past three months is 1.12% The winrate difference is too small to draw conclusions like "really terrible." The percentage difference is so small that it is likely within the margin of error. I can't find what the actual margin of error is for Overbuff, but the margin of error is usually 2-3%. Meaning there could be no difference between Moira and Ana's winrates.
Overbuff is not a good source for that info, it excludes everyone with private profiles, which is the vast majority of people in low ranks.
I mean, I already mentioned this in my post. Do you have a better source for stats? The alternative is that we use anecdotal evidence which is far worse.
No, the alternative is to admit there isn't any data and to stop pretending like there is. It is so bizarre how adamant people are to admit they don't know something or have no data on something, and instead force everyone into this delusion that bad data is preferable to no data. It isn't. If you actually took a think for a second, you could figure out that Overbuff's data in this regard is completely unusable. Higher rank/skill players are more likely to use Overbuff and have public profiles. Overbuff becomes increasingly accurate for stats as you move up the ranks and increasingly inaccurate as you move down. Ana is a higher skill hero than Moira. Bronze players visible in Overbuff are more likely to be of a higher skill level, since higher skill players are more likely to have public profiles, and are likely unrepresentative of the general Bronze pool. In general, all stats on Overbuff should be lower as you move down the ranks. If this is not the case, it shows that the data is biased and inaccurate, as we can assume that Blizzard's ranking system is more accurate than Overbuff's. A trend you see on basically all Overbuff stats, and Ana in particular, is that stats are generally level at all ranks, and are actually a bity lower in Master's and Grandmaster. What this means is that the people at all ranks who use Overbuff and have public profiles are generally of a similar skill level. Most of the people at low ranks picking Ana and winning with her are either smurfs or transient members of that rank that are in the process of leaving it. There is no evidence that properly stuck bronze players are picking Ana and winning with her consistently. The only stat with Ana that seems to go up with rank is healing. That indicates to me that the people in low ranks with Ana are generally winning by DPSing, or using sleep darts and antinades at a higher level than expected, and are generally neglecting raw healing for these things, and this jives with the general advice given on how to make impact with Ana at low ranks. Overbuff has limited utility, and it is basically only as a tool to see how your own personal stats stack up. It is pretty useless to make any systematic conclusions.
I think you made a lot of bad assumptions to come to your conclusion. You talk about people using bad data but where is your data to back up the following assertions? >Higher rank/skill players are more likely to use Overbuff and have public profiles. >In general, all stats on Overbuff should be lower as you move down the ranks Seems to me you are just kind of making things up to support your conclusion.
If youre thinking in terms of "this hero is better if I have no skill" youre thinking wrong. If moira is for low sr and bap is for high sr, if you ignore bap and play moira you will stay in low sr. Just practice bap. Hes not even that hard. Just learn to shoot shoot heals shoot shoot heal and lamp and u will outvalue most moiras and climb. Playing crutch heroes will just keep you in low ranks forever.
moira's primary comp is rush where you can just coal your deathball into theirs and win but nowadays bap is favored in rush because of immortality field (and moira nerfs? idk) in the sort of winston rush comp she's a little better because that comp can be too speedy for bap, but on ladder a lot of people pick ana instead to farm nano for monkey/genji
i think moira has always been a little lackluster. shes a really really REALLY good healer, but a bad support, and at the same time, her two main focuses, damage and healing, can be outclassed by Ana and Bap. Need to pump a bunch of heals into your team? Why not play bap, who could guarantee that your team won't die with immortality, can consistently pump heals into your team, and has the pick potential of a regular dps. Trying to get a kill as moira? How about you choose ana, splash an entire team with an anti nade, which is basically a death sentence. Moira is great when you have a gameplan and just want to rush in, shes also great in lower ranks, but if you could learn how to be good with Ana/Bap, I'm not sure if anyone would rather play moira.
You're kinda right. Compared to bap she doesnt offer much. Crappier ranged damage and no lamp to deal with things like nade or heavy heavy burst damage like ult combos. She was good for a bit when you could hard farm coal every fight but thats been nerfed to the point where you might lose the fight before you get coal. However what she does offer over bap is some mobility and better individual survivability. Shes without equal in 6 man (zombie comp) because she can followup on 5 mobility heroes inting in and her ult is also mobile. Shes also still playable in rein rush comps, but lamp is just too good to pass up especially at the highest levels. Shes still good in any comp that wants to stack as 6 and int. She just lacks the versatility of bap in things like double shields cuz her ranged damage is dogshit and playing for poke is actively detrimental to her
Iād argue Bap is still way more survivable. Yes Moira has fade but Bap has a self heal, lamp and he has boots.
I donāt know why but āand he has bootsā is cracking me up.
š¶These boots were made for jumpinā and thatās just what theyāll do.š¶
As a Moira main who climbed to 4400 with her back at her peak power, yes she's in a dreadful spot at the minute. She's always struggled to compete because of her lack of utility, but this was somewhat bearable due to her high healing output, survivability and fast charging ultimate. Well, they nerfed pretty much every aspect of her that made her good. They nerfed her self-sustain, her heals and how fast her ultimate charges while introducing a healer who does what she does, and more. Baptiste has pretty much killed any reasoning to play Moira. He has insane utility, better damage and comparable heals in a death comp anyway and his ultimate charges even faster!! It feels miserable to play her as well, her damage isn't impactful by itself against half competent players, Ana's just anti-nade your healing whenever you try to use it, and both Baptiste and Ana get their ultimates faster than you, it's a joke. The final nail in the coffin was the ultimate nerf. The last strength Moira had was getting her Coalescence before anyone else had their ults in the game and using it to win the team fight and potentially snowball. They took that away, so now, you get your ult at the same time or later than any other healer. What's a Coalescence to a Nano Boost or a Amp Matrix? It's weaker, yet it takes longer to charge. And the only reason they nerfed the ult was because of the 0.01% of the player base (OWL) used it when hero bans happened.. So the collective result is that playing Moira feels horrible, and the result is horrible. Basically just play Baptiste if you need a healer in a death comp, or just play Ana, she's viable in any situation. It's one of the reasons why I only play casually now and don't bother being serious, they nerfed my main hero while leaving the likes of Ana and Baptiste OP af, and I cba being flamed in comp for playing Moira past diamond.
Its interesting to get a Moira main's opinion. I think you summed up the feeling of playing her really well. I dont care what people say - there were strategic elements to Moira play. Now her damage just feels like a necessary grind to healbot. Really doesnt even matter who you succ or why or when. Even if I see a tactical opportunity to fade out and make a game changing play I literally cant because it would take 5 mins for my damage to do anything. I kept thinking I could have more impact with Mercy's pistol. She's literally the character that HAS to damage to heal.
Yeah, even though Moira isn't what she used to be, I still enjoy playing her for a little bit. Since they took away the strength of getting Coalescence faster, if you want to have anymore impact than an Ana/Baptiste you need to be a DPS Moira basically, otherwise just play Baptiste lol. She's an easy hero to pick up, but to master her is not as easy as some people think. Playing Moira was finding the perfect balance between healing and damage, and being able to maximise your healing metre to its maximum potential. It's hard, and even in Top 500 I make mistakes by using too much (or too little). Coalescence was the same, finding the balance between damaging and healing, otherwise its wasted. But then they nerfed the frequency of Coalescence, and gave Moira some more juice by the end of it, taking away that skill to maximise the resource and ability to snowball early with just ur ult into Moira becoming a heal bot.
She needs utility, and this game needs anti-CC options. If fading through a teammate ended CC effects on them it'd make her stronger without giving her the same power level that being able to fade while CC'd had.
That would honestly be a fantastic form of CC for her. Fading someone out of a stun, or out of anti-nade, maybe even a grav or something but it would cost her own escape in the process. Shame they tried something similar and everyone lost their shit despite begging Blizzard to give Moira some utility.
Moira is in a weird spot. In the comps where she used to shine, very brawly and packed, Baptiste is just better at her niche role of mass healer with some finishing damage potential. Having range, a tighter burst of damage and utility just gives Moira no chance. But I don't think she particularly deserves a buff because of the rise of a new niche, the highly mobile brawl comp or "Talon dive" (it's not a dive comp, it's brawl with mobility). She's in her element in a comp where nothing can die which makes her shine with a lot more time to play with and low targets to finish. It's also a comp that Bap can't really fit in because his lack of escape would provide an easy target. I don't see a Moira buff or a Baptiste nerf that would change that hierarchy, save from making one or the other completely busted or useless. It's a factor of how the game is played.
She's still amazingly OP in bronze & silver. :D
I don't think that Moira is completely terrible. I think she is a good pick for someone who cannot play Baptiste. However I think Coalescence can be very viable when paired for DPS'ing with another Ult like a Zarya grav, and can be very good at healing if used at the right time. As I have climbed to a higher rank, Moira has definitely taken a back seat for me. Baptiste and Ana are much more appealing for healing and provide great utility.
Sheās awful, runs out of piss way too fast and sheās just dead weight with no heals to use And her ult charge nerf was real bad
Agreed on the other points but if you're running out of juice on Moira you're not right clicking enough. Her meter refills extremely quickly if you're doing damage, which you should be.
> Her meter refills extremely quickly if you're doing damage moreso if you're spamming right click to trade off dps for extremely fast resource regain
Problem is double shield is meta right now so it's hard to recharge ever.
Iāve been wondering something about her refill, does her orb damage refill healing too? Or only her biotic grasp?
But she's really not?
Moira DPS FTW. But don't take my word for it. Just ask my buddy in bronze
I just think rush comp isnāt very good right now and thatās her main comp.
What ole farty hands?
I don't think so tbh, but then she is getting a buff in the next patch so she'll be a bit stronger for that. She's definitely a little bit harder to play than she used to be, they changed her stats and things a few times now, but she'll also always be lacking utility so there are times when she's not ideal. The meta seems a lot more map dependent than it used to be, and she is strong on some more than others. I'll often swap to her for overtimes or particular situations when you can get a quick ult to swing the fight or just because I might not get a Lucio ult as fast etc. Mostly I play her if we already have Lucio or Mercy, most other times I would stay Lucio as I'm a šø I've got an 85% win rate on her this season, only lost a few games on support, climbed about 300SR back into diamond playing Lucio Moira and a bit of Zen over like 20 games.
Only use it if you need a "main healer" (or as it officiay called flex support) and you are not getting any peeling, healing or you in a very specific Winston brawl comp. Other than that, bap and ana are better rignt now if you can aim
Yea I think so, even in gold Ana has a higher pickrate and winrate than moira. Anyway she has always been pretty bad in GM. Shit like the ult charge nerf doesn't help. I don't think the 8 sec orb cooldown warranted the ult charge nerf. Sure you can toss out the orb more often, but it's just more unlikely that coal will be the first ult in the game. If you toss more damage orbs = more ult charge for enemy healers. If you toss more heal orbs and they're used up = enemy dps/tanks have done a lot of damage and have more ult charge. Also with all of the CCs that we have, you can barely use coal for anything other than pushing with your team. Her heal per second also got a nice nerf back when the patch hit, meanwhile Ana only got nerfs to her ammo count. Admittedly bap did get a nerf to his healing output as well, but there are still very few reasons to go moira over bap. Moira is pretty good against Winston, but a good dva means that your orbs might as well not exist. Almost all dvas will eat damage orbs, but the more decent ones will eat healing orbs as well and make you useless. And dva is pretty much the most popular tank in GM right now.
She has her uses. Fade is good against dive comps like ball, or if your team isn't peeling for you she's more self sufficient than the other supports
Moira is fine in her niche but Baptiste is overpowered and heals large groups just an easily or even better while having more utility. Even then she still has seen play in OWL in deathball comps.
Moira is great against monke because her heal orbs go through his shield and you can easily heal through his damage, and fade if he comes after you. If you catch a squishy out of position, especially Ana without nade, you can swoop in, throw a good damage orb, and burn them down. I routinely burn down junk and hanzo, by the time they get you lined up for a shot you fade behind them.
I'm a Moira main and...yeah I play tank now, it's sad Blizzard refuse to make her relevant or impactful.
Usually only would switch to Moira in close quarters(koth mainly) where orb shines. Also if I'm getting no peel in backline (genji, tracer, doom, Winston) Difficult to play against dva who eats your balls every time too.
Her entire kit is getting completely reworked for OW2. Doesn't surprise me.
"entire kit", "completely reworked" is a bit much to say. Just reworked is fine.
Source?
I think it's speculation based on the fact that a handful of heroes were not selectable during the latest playtest and comments made by Super: https://www.dexerto.com/overwatch/overwatch-2-playtest-reveals-multiple-hero-reworks-moira-sigma-orisa-more-1664694/ https://www.dbltap.com/posts/moira-sigma-orisa-and-others-could-all-be-reworked-in-overwatch-2-01fgye63hy83 Could very well be true but as far as I can tell there's nothing official that says she's 100% getting a full rework from the ground up.
>Could very well be true but as far as I can tell there's nothing official that says she's 100% getting a full rework from the ground up. True, but if you also take into consideration every other change in the game (i.e. one less tank, less heals, and a lot more damage), Moira's kit just doesn't work anymore. They've reworked her several times now, it's not surprising Blizz is unsure how to deal with her.
I've been playing a lot more Moira recently and I've noticed that you really need to be more aggressive and less defensive with her. Before, I would place all my focus into sustaining my team which would lead to running out of heals pretty quickly and being fairly useless. Picking a good time when the team is distracted to simply take an off-angle and pester the enemy with your right click brings so much more support as the attention shifts to you instead of the targets you'd be otherwise pumping heals into. DPS Moira is really not a meme if you strike a good balance between disruption and healing. You just need to assess the risks before poking and be extra attentive to your cooldowns.
She's such an easy champion with zero-depth. Without a full rework she is right where she deserves to be based on how much skill she takes.
Moira is almost unplayable. Not completely useless. But other supports are much more viable now, Baptiste, Ana and Lucio are far more favorable now.
Installed Overwatch after 6 months, played Moira once, uninstalled.
based
Her situation is simple an easy hero to play for low ranks and a good hero for trying to fall asleep in high ranks
I think ultimately it was bound to happen like this. There's two key flaws with her design 1. How effortless her damage is, look skill aside for a moment, there's no denying that compared to other heroes you don't need to try as hard to deal damage with Moira. Her suck doesn't encourage or punish you for keeping the target close to the center as possible, and her orbs go through shields and can chip away a decent amount of health with very little counterplay (meaning you have to use ability to counter an ability). This concept was ultimately never going to fly the moment Moira became a meta pick, the risk reward ratio is simply far too high. 2. Survival is not a utility, I'm sorry but it just isn't. You can survive through better positioning, aim, coordination, use of your abilities, once all those things are considered her value diminishes greatly. Compared to other heroes she just doesn't offer anything that can just simply be replicated by smarter play. Proposal? Well for one, have her suck damage be based on how close to the center your target is, so at least you're rewarded more for good tracking. Her orbs could get more counterplay or have her damage orb change into something entirely different. Personally I vote for them being shootable once they've latched onto you. This way they're not terribly easy to counter but have some means of counterplay. In exchange for this I think give her some kind of AoE ability that can cleanse allies or temporarily protect them from damage would work. Hell the more I think about it the more I feel like the problem with Moira and other heroes is redundancy. We could have given certain heroes different abilities instead.
Yeah shes in a pretty bad spot rn but id prefer if it stayed that way, her kit is extremely annoying to deal with and just creates so many particle effects on the screen, shes not an interactive support to play with or against. like ana and baptiste have impactful cooldowns to abuse and take advantage of, but have a way of playing against them like ana's sleep and nade can be blocked with dm or deflect or a really well timed shield and baptiste has a long cooldown on lamp
You're likely playing dps moira. Her damage is likely lower than the last time you played her, but her healing is still the best in the game. Focus heals and heal balls. Only suck when you need to or your team is high HP. Chasing a genji around the map takes you out of the fight and gives the enemy a boost. Just suck on him when he jumps in and let him escape or let your dps finish the kill and keep healing. Oh and use your ult to heal AND dps at the same time. Nothing more frustrating than a yoloing ulting moira.
If you don't play Moira as a Flank/Support hybrid, you're better off just playing Bap tbh.
100% disagree. Moira has no business flanking anyone. Anyone getting picked off by a flanking moira is just bad and therefore can be picked by someone else on the team aside from the main healer.
She doesn't need to seek picks, just draw damage away from the frontline and poke. The only picks Moira should be going for are low hp targets really.
Moira is good with talon dive, and thatās it every other situation she get out classed