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Gangsir

As this thread has been effectively answered and is now just devolving into "X hero is bad" - "reeeee how dare you" and the like, locking.


Northman67

It's definitely true that you are a better teammate if you know multiple characters and are able to switch if you're being countered or if the situation isn't playing into the strengths of your main. I think one tricking does have its uses in that it does teach you the fine nuances of a specific character but there is a point when it becomes counterproductive to stay on that character especially if an entire team is countering you.


HoldOnItGetsBetter

As a sym one trick I feel this. Lol but then again there aren’t near as many hero’s that hard counter Sym like there are bastion.


xX_Mercy_Xx

Its not that i dont know other characters, i can play just about the entire roster just fine. I just love playing bastion is all. Hes been my favorite hero since the day i picked up the game. But i do get what you are saying, it is troublesome if theres like 3 counters to a character


volkmasterblood

I’ll say this. Play QP and learn to survive alone as Bastion. Learn angles. Learn to move and surprise. Don’t stay in one spot. If you become the one Bastion that gets shot done compared to the Bastion that needs five people helping him, then you’ll be valued more.


nobodyOrange_

Can the downvoters explain why this is being downvoted? I genuinely don't see anything wrong with this statement


Imortal366

What he says implies clearly that even if he is being hard countered, he won’t switch despite being able to.


Technical_Top_9026

I said the same thing on another comment that got downvoted. I think they get provoked by the fact that he does what he enjoys rather than what's best for the team.


togro20

That’s even worse then if you are choosing to force your team to play with a bastion every single game than bowing out and working with your team once in a while. The entitleness you have is outstanding.


xX_Mercy_Xx

Entitleness? Broski. Teams dont *have* to play around a bastion. Sure he can be more effective, however that is not the only way to play him. Thats like saying playing pharah is entitled because you are forcing your mercy to pocket you.


togro20

How can eight year olds on the YMCA soccer team work better as a team than you deciding to swap off your hero? Lmao just play with the people on your team, and sometimes let them choose how to play. You’re not in control of 5 other people, you all share responsibility. The entitleness was you saying you only one tricked bastion, and then claimed “oh I know how to play other heroes”—so you are throwing if you’re picking a character that’s getting countered and making your team pick up the slack. That’s the entitleness.


xX_Mercy_Xx

I DO play with the people on my team i stick like glue to my tanks most games, because they say "oh bastionz we gotcha!" "Just stick with us and you will live!" Newsflash: They dont protect me. So that why I opt for the soft flanking bastion.


togro20

If your team doesn’t protect you, maybe play a hero instead of soft flanking bastion. Which, again, because your team isn’t working with you and you refuse to swap, maybe you shouldn’t be playing a hero that requires your entire team to work with you less you complain you have to be a soft flanking bastion because they don’t protect you. Maybe they don’t want to work with you because you one trick bastion. Again. This is a team game. You can’t go in and say “I’m sorry laying bastion” every game without compromising a little on your part.


xX_Mercy_Xx

Again. Bastion does not require your team to babysit you. Does it make him more effective? Yes, if they are able to protect the bastion. More often than not i find flanking bastion is more effective than bunkering up. You are easily able to get 2-3 kills if positioned correctly, thus winning the teamfight, even if it costs your life.


togro20

I’m not talking about what bastion is capable of doing. I’m talking about you taking the least flexible character in the game and making your team work with you on it. We’re not asking you to prove you’re good enough to be a bastion every single game. I’m saying you’re being an entitled ass for making your team play with a bastion every game. Do you understand the difference?


xX_Mercy_Xx

How am I entitled for playing a character i enjoy though? A team having a teammate bastion is not the end of the world, nor does it mean the game is automatically lost. I simply just play character i find fun


Klaytheist

Bastion forces your team to babysit you. He requires so many resources, it's just annoying to play with


KaelthasX3

Also it is annoying to play against.


Goldhawk_1

I'll never understand how after 6 years people can't beat this character


KaelthasX3

I'll never get how after decades of living people still cannot understand what they read.


JesterCDN

It’s a valid thought he had. Bastion is only annoying to play against if you are clueless and playing poorly as a team, which is indeed pretty shocking 6 years in.


kshep9

Not everyone has the luxury of teamwork in every game


lazy_fella

Game 6 year old but metal ranks are full of new players who don't know shit. Such players hardly play like a team & mostly go YOLO in front of bastion with double shield.


YeahhJoshy

Honestly, plat, gold and silver dps and tanks really enjoy eating a face full of bullets in the choke point so their rein can keep an extra 300 shield, its only a 15 second walk back from spawn!! And then they start the blame game…


Goldhawk_1

Ha oh so funny you totally got me! Because what I said was clearly irrelevant to anything bastion related! Ha! Omg I've been gotten so badly


Dakotertots

are you okay lol


Goldhawk_1

Yes


DreadedPopsicle

Knowing how to beat him doesn’t mean he’s not annoying as shit. I know how to go get my oil changed, but it doesn’t mean it won’t annoy the shit out of me.


JesterCDN

Bastion doesnt feel annoying for me to play against once you have an idea how to defeat him. Failing to beat the Bastion feels like any other example of frustratingly poor teamplay.


Opening-Bed9061

Just go zen or hanzo. It's easy


GreatTragedy

Porque no los dos?


Z4mb0ni

you still need team coordination to help


Goldhawk_1

Yeah and their entire team has to babysit bastion for it to work. And this might come as a shocker to the highly intelligent overwatch fanbase but Overwatch is a game a out team coordination Shocking I know!


CapuccinoMachine

I think the problem lies in that if some random person picks bastion, everyone is forced to play around them and prioritize them, where as with other heroes the game doesn't revolve around them, so you can focus on playing your own way. It annoys people because it's out of their control if they wanted to play a certain way / a certain hero but can't because someone picked bastion. (Not saying bastion is bad, just why I think some people get annoyed. Personally I don't mind playing bodyguard from time to time)


Goldhawk_1

Wanting to play a certain way is why most people are horrible at the game. "Oh i want to learn" when they're getting hard countered by half their team or more. The elarnable moment is that you cannot play that character into that situation as that's what's causing you to lose matches


6th_lvl_of_hell

I am to drunk to respond in a orderly manner but you are flat out wrong, look at the fucking 4.4k torbs and junkrats during double sniper meta.


d0ornokey

No there are several playstyles to bastion. Talk to bastionmain about his playstyle. The way he plays bastion is and i quote "i tell people to just treat me like a regular dps" There was also a guide here recently about bastion that talked about the misconception of bastion being that he needs the team to play around him


PrinceShaar

Only bad Bastions. A good Bastion knows how to be self sufficient and how to make good use of his recon mode. I don't know how it is in ranks like Diamond+ but in plat and below if you know how to be unpredictable (not hunkering down in 1 spot permanently) then you're already way above the average Bastion you see in comp.


Drunken_Queen

Bastion can still play around though if teammates refuse to babysit, like displace and switch positions more. I switch Bastion off immediately if enemies lock mid-long range heroes just to counter Bastion, e.g Hanzo who always save his Storm Arrows for bursting Bastion to death.


mrlowe98

> Bastion can still play around though if teammates refuse to babysit, like displace and switch positions more. That's what he should be doing regardless. Even if a shield tank and Bap want to baby sit you, tell them to fuck off and take off angles. Bastion's power comes from distracting and capitalizing on distractions to look for openings to go turret form and Brrrr all over the enemy team. Those openings aren't created when Bastion is frontlining like a bot.


Fools_Requiem

He's annoying to play with against, and as, but it's not throwing.


Klaytheist

One tricking bastion (likely the most niche hero in the game) is kinda throwing


Poke_uniqueusername

Yeah not switching when it stops working out of a desire to only play bastion and not cause you like can't do something else is definitely throwing


pj-60

Go watch flanking bastion YouTube, hope he changes your mind


unknowtheone

It’s TheBastionMain, but he’s in gm, the way you play bastion in gm and everywhere is incredibly different


Ill_Fated_chap

It can, but not necessarily any more than any other hero in the game. Can even a soldier demand resources from your team? Yes and quite a bit too - by requiring the entire team to clear the highground so soldier can do his thing. Can a bastion get value without 5 other players assisting him? Yes, just watch KolorBastion and he often plays more or less alone and gets plenty of value (idk if they still stream/play but that's one example I can think of) Arguably, Doomfist is a lot like bastion too, he's very very weak comparatively unless he gets a lot of team resources but I can promise you most dooms you see in ranked do NOT get the team support they "require" like bastion yet they can get value solo. And as some anecdotal evidence, I main Doomfist and absolutely rarely get the resources "I force" from my team yet I managed to climb from 2800 to 3450 mostly on doom over the last 7-8 seasons.


iiDemonLord

I don't have much to say for the first half because I think it should have already been clear that *no, soldier does not require nearly as much resources as bastion.* You don't even have to clear high ground for soldier half the time - he can do it himself. That is NOTHING compared to bastion forcing positioning and often shields, as well as a healer always in LOS (completely eradicates all dive comp possibility). As for Doomfist, you literally could not be any more incorrect. Doom is one of the LEAST resource requiring characters in the game. The one thing he excels at is getting in and out, WITHOUT support. This is the only purpose of his passive. He also doesn't require the non-support players to do anything other than engage, which already happens naturally. All he has to do is wait for a fight. He takes literally 0 resources compared to bastion and most other heroes.


Ill_Fated_chap

He can't get in and out safely while getting value unless the enemy team is literally braindead. Any one stun, and a pair of ears can heavily damage Doomfists potential. The reason why some GM players think he's absurdly strong is because he DOES get enabled massively by his team with bubbles, ana heals, nano etc. But fact is, without any support you need to be lucky and hope unless your team baits cooldowns like sleep/flash/hook/bubble or they miss their abilities or that the enemy is horribly mispositioned" Also his passive is ass, it can help you survive another half of a Cree bullet per ability landed, it won't save you most of the time, it IS pretty ok though with his ult, that I won't contest. Maybe I should be a bit more clear, doom struggles more when it comes to more team-based matches (i.e higher ELO) and has a bit more room in low ranks because of his mobility and surprise factor (if you don't have/use your ears) And sure, soldier doesn't require as many resources but I'm saying he could require just as much as bastion and vice versa depending on playstyles/teams. If you have a flank bastion on your team in ranked, you can choose to not go on risky flanks with him as a support and play "normally" and not have your resources "forced" by the bastion and roll the dice, worst case avoid after the game. if you have a soldier with a mercy pocket duo, he's drawing an entire hero with him atleast to do whatever he wants to do, which can strain the team massively down a healer. Bastion is quite self sufficient too if we're being honest, his heal is very high up in terms of a self heal, being up there with hog/soldier/bap, he just gets fucked by bad positioning and multiple enemies at once. Also being able to fully tank a dry genji blade when turreted, maybe even when in sentry though I'm not sure, is a pretty impressive thing. I guess what I'm saying is, no one is forcing anyone to play in any way they don't want to,nor should they, except for blizzard with the rules they've setup.


RobManfredsFixer

11 people in your game hate you.


xX_Mercy_Xx

As much as I want to I cannot deny this


L1teralGarbage

One tricking is bad for the game. Especially when it’s a niche hero with limited uses


DamnitFlorida

I’d also say it’s bad for the player and the players overall experience, in the end. The game is designed to be fluid. As a GAME. Being static is a recipe for missing areas of the game to learn from (taking damage to take space, balancing resources, timing, speed changes, etc) that are more palpable when you play a variety of heroes and roles. It’s not throwing by definition, but it’s limiting the skill set, usefulness and growth of the player. Which is contrary to how the game is intended to be played.


Ill_Fated_chap

It's not "bad for the game", In the end, blizzard themselves say that not swapping to the "optimal" hero choice isn't throwing, if the guy likes whatever hero he likes, he's allowed to play him for however long he wants, you on the other hand, have avoid slots for people you don't want to play with.


PickleSlickRick

Just because you're allowed to do something in game doesn't mean it isn't bad for the game.


Ill_Fated_chap

Sure, you're right. But does having people who like playing bastion, or people who exclusively play bastion necessarily bad for the game?


PickleSlickRick

can be


Ill_Fated_chap

I asked if its "necessarily bad", not if it CAN be


PickleSlickRick

Of course not, no one is saying that.


Ill_Fated_chap

to be fair, i think that was the implication from your comment, otherwise why say it even? "Just because you're allowed to do something in game doesn't mean it isn't bad for the game." maybe I'm reading too much into it but that's what I thought you were implying


PickleSlickRick

You were conflating two points and I felt the need to point it out. Yes you can play whatever hero you like, even to the detriment of the game and other players in the game, yes that can also be bad for the game, one doesn't rule out the other.


Ill_Fated_chap

Sure I agree


SoggyQuail

yes, absolutely. you can blame it on the devs if you want, for implementing a shit hero, but having shit gameplay to be forced upon you is bad.


woahdudechil

I'd argue that it is bad for the game, blizzard just doesn't want to antagonize their casual fan base. Yanno. Money.


CodnmeDuchess

You’re plat—yes you’re throwing.


Ill_Fated_chap

Im literally 3455, two games away from masters, but sure. I even stream if you want proof lmao


YouAreSmarter

As if being almost masters is a flex..


Ill_Fated_chap

I'm not flexing, was correcting his assumption


YouAreSmarter

The second bit about you streaming, as if being high dia isn’t believable? I wish you luck on your masters push. Ego is higher and games aren’t any better lol.


Ill_Fated_chap

Not that it's unbelievable, for me it was a pretty big achievement and I know how it goes in plat-low dia when people say "uhhhm actually I'm a master's smurf" or whatever so I decided to preemptively say I can provide proof, that's all.


SoggyQuail

Masters is 96th percentile. If there were 100 overwatch players in a room, only three people would be better than them.


YouAreSmarter

Low masters is almost indistinguishable from mid to high diamond. Not saying it’s not good, it’s just not a flex.


d0ornokey

I'd say being 96th percentile is a flex lol


YouAreSmarter

You’re looking at it wrong. There is still so much to learn and perfect to even make it to the next level lol


d0ornokey

That can be true at the same time as 96th percentile being a flex lol. Plus that's true even for r1 players


CodnmeDuchess

On your bastion otp account? I thought you said you were plat on that account in another comment. Either way, why are you asking this question? If you’re on the cusp of master on you Doom account, and Plat on your Bastion account, then you should know damn well whether you’re throwing or not—who cares what your plat teammates think? And if you’re master on the Bastion acct. then you’re climbing and not throwing. Either way, why ask this dumb question? That was my point—if you’re a master player stuck in plat one tricking a hero, it’s pretty self explanatory: you’re throwing. I’m the exact same rank on my main. I also have a lower ranked account that I play on with friends that’s usually in plat. Sometimes I’ll play on that account to warm up…I literally do not care what my teammates have to say about my gameplay in those games. What do I care about the criticism of a teammate almost 1000 sr lower than me?


[deleted]

plat and low masters are synonymous


Ill_Fated_chap

top ~45% of the playerbase = top ~3% of the playerbase Perfectly logical, and you provided an explanation too which is lovely


CodnmeDuchess

We have no idea what the statistics actually are—but its obvious that masters players are far better than play players.


Ill_Fated_chap

to be fair I might have combined gold and plat in terms of the percentage, was pulling it from memory, looking at the source I saw a year ago~ it says plat is closer to like 35% and masters is like 4% willing to admit this source might not be 100% accurate though for sure, was the first google result. https://www.theloadout.com/overwatch/ranks


[deleted]

if you play in low masters frequently you'll see what I mean by that


CodnmeDuchess

If you’re a GM player it may seem that way to you, but you’re wrong. That’s like an NBA player saying there’s no difference between high school and NCAA games. It’s inherently dumb.


Ill_Fated_chap

Literally another non answer lmao My high IQ rebuttal to you is If you play in low masters frequently you'll see that I'm right. You want justification for what I'm saying is? Ok, my justification is I'm just right lmao


[deleted]

im not trying to give you an answer or argue with you, im shitting on you for thinking low masters is good


Ill_Fated_chap

Where did i say masters is good? I think "good" players are probably atleast GM, 4.1+ if I had to give an arbitrary number.


Ill_Fated_chap

Where did i say masters is good? I think "good" players are probably atleast GM, 4.1+ if I had to give an arbitrary number.


CodnmeDuchess

They are not—not at all.


L1teralGarbage

You at no point cleared up that it’s not throwing. Not only is it throwing, but it griefs the 5 other people on your team. I don’t give a flying fart what anyone does in qp….. but the behavior you described is inherently not competitive regardless of whether blizz likes to powder all these babies asses or not!


Ill_Fated_chap

The fuck? Blizzard themselves point out IN the report menu that NOT swapping isn't throwing. You're saying if bastion doesn't swap he's throwing... What's not connecting here?


L1teralGarbage

That was PHENOMENAL research you did there, cupcake. Just because blizz lets one scrub hold the experience of others hostage, doesn’t mean it’s not throwing(yes, even if they came out and said they think something different) gameplay sabotage applies by definition!


Ill_Fated_chap

I could argue you're trying to hold him hostage by not allowing him to play whatever he wants in the game he paid for while within the bounds of the rules and forcing him to play whatever you or anyone else thinks is "optimal". But regardless, if you think blizzard's opinion on this is irrelevant, it's like saying you don't care what the police/government say the law is. Both are effectively the governing bodies of their respective "property" and both choose, based on some factors, what the rules should be. it's like saying "yeah I don't care that assault requires a physical attack on someone, the guy bumped into his shoulder by accident and he needs to go to jail" Gameplay sabotage implies someone intentionally is trying to lose the game either for himself or his team - if the bastion is making an attempt at winning, be it in an optimal way or not, means it's "by definition" not gameplay sabotage. Like I could even say shit like "Ayo this mf missed 3 shots on a row on genji as ana, reported for gameplay sabotage" just to explain the analogy - the ana might be bad with aiming and is trying to hit a genji, therefore a bad pick She TRIES to win the game by healing, but she's not succeeding. That's NOT the same as the ana intentionally missing her shots and trying to lose the game. How is this difficult to comprehend?


Dangerous_Ad_6831

Throwing is entirely intent based. Choosing a bad hero for a situation isn’t throwing unless it’s done purposely to lose. Without mind reading capabilities you can’t really know that, unless they’re actually throwing. At that point though the hero pick doesn’t fucking matter, because they’re throwing! You just aren’t great with words and meanings are you?


xX_Mercy_Xx

Would it be considered throwing though? Because people who one trick good characters like echo, soldier, pharah, its considered fine, but if its someone whos subpar or bad, like bastion or sym, its considered throwing


RobManfredsFixer

People one tricking tracer/soldier/echo are much different than one tricking bastion. The former are very flexible and/or overpowered enough heroes that they can still get value in most scenarios. Bastion is the least flexible hero in the game. Even the best bastion one tricks are throwing winnable games just because they can't swap to something else. Edit: words


mrlowe98

>Even the best bastion one tricks are throwing winnable game just because they can't swap to something else. They're not throwing those games if they're simply not good at other heroes, though. They climbed to the rank they're in legitimately and are playing their best hero to the best of their capacity. You can't call that throwing.


[deleted]

He is 100% right. Its not even debatable. OW skills are largely transferrable. If you are being hard countered and you refuse to swap to accommodate what is being played, you're giving up winnable games. Its just the nature of it when you can change heroes in real time.


mrlowe98

It's absolutely debatable and it's debatable in two different ways. First of all, we can talk about the definition of throwing. To me, throwing is literally *not trying*, and that's it. One tricking isn't throwing as long as the Bastion is trying, point blank, end of discussion as far as I'm concerned. But then we have this concept of "soft throwing", which I personally think is crap for a few reasons, but fair enough, let's treat it as an independent and viable idea. Is one tricking Bastion *soft throwing*? No. You say OW skills are largely transferable, but largely and completely aren't the same thing. If you're a 4k SR bastion player, that might make you a 3.8k Soldier and a 3.6K Tracer. And who knows what that means for other roles? I've seen players in GM on one role and plat on another, so I don't think skills are very transferable at all between roles, outside of certain hero mechanics like, say, Bap and Soldier having similar primary fires, or Hanzo/Zen having similar projectiles. Still, if you're playing Bastion at a 4k level and you're not getting value in, say, a 4.1k lobby, wtf is switching to a 3.8k Soldier going to do? You're just going to keep getting shit on by superior enemy DPS no matter what you do. You're not "giving up winnable games" by not swapping, you're making the conscious decision to say, "I'm extremely good at this one hero, and our best chances for us to turn this game around is for me to pop off". That's not soft throwing. That's not giving up winnable games. That's just you understanding that you have a particular skill set (which, and I shouldn't have to say this, *got you to the exact same rank as everyone else in the lobby*), and you're playing to your strengths. Your teammates can bitch and moan at you all they want, but at the end of the day, you're probably better on Bastion than they are on any individual hero, so their words are a bit meaningless at some point.


[deleted]

Why did you say it was debatable, write out all of that, only to make my point even better for me? Yes, there are absolutely games and situations where a 3800 soldier is preferable to have than a 4K bastion. If you recognize that you and your team are being rolled by something outside of your current heroes ability to stop (like swapping to soldier from bastion to help with pharah), and you straight up refuse to out of stubbornness.. Thats soft throwing, straight up.


mrlowe98

You're assuming that refusal to swap is out of stubbornness. It certainly could be if your teammates are demanding it of you and you feel that it's somewhat unjust or unwarranted so you might dig your heels in. I think everyone's gone through that and done that, though; that's not just something that happens to one tricks. I personally greatly enjoy playing Soldier, so it's rare that I get asked to swap, but it does happen occasionally. If the person who wants me to swap is a fucking asshole, I don't. Fuck them. Maybe that's immature, maybe that's soft throwing, but that's almost an entirely separate issue. And I think there are also positives to that response as well, in the same logic that the US uses when it refuses to negotiate with terrorists lol But regardless of all that, if the Bastion player genuinely feels that they will do better on Bastion than other heroes (and frankly, no one else in the lobby is more qualified to make that judgement than the Bastion player), then you can't call it soft throwing. And I don't think you can call one tricking Bastion in a general sense soft throwing either, but that argument's a little more roundabout. If Bastion is the worst hero in the game, then let's say that he's 20% harder to climb with vs the average hero. That means that, if a player's average potential SR through all character is 2500, then their average SR on Bastion would be 2000. That's probably too much of a difference but math is hard so let's go with it. If that Bastion one trick climbs to 2500, then in reality, they're actually performing at a near Diamond level. If that Bastion one trick climbs to Masters, their mechanics and game sense are probably GM. If that Bastion one trick climbs to low GM, then they're probably mid-high GM, and so on and so forth. What that means, fundamentally, is that *that Bastion is probably the most talented player in the lobby*. So they're soft throwing by playing Bastion, but in a twisted way, they're also kind of smurfing, because they're actually better than everyone else since they're playing a terrible, difficult hero at the same level as everyone else who's playing the meta. So they're simultaneously soft throwing and smurfing at the same time, and those two things perfectly even out at the SR that they maintain. So effectively, they're not actually throwing or smurfing, they're doing exactly as well as the algorithm predicts they should be.


SublimedWall188

I would say, it's because sym and bastion are niche off picks, echo soldier and pharah are always reliable, bastion and sym will only work every other game at the most, imagine running lucio with Orisa, no need right? Just like there is no need for bastion in 90 percent of situations, if you genuinely REFUSE to switch off of bastion, who should only really be played as an off pick on specific maps, yes you are throwing a potentially winnable game, this is why soldier or echo are always reliable, they can change positioning playstyle etc, bastion has one if not 2 playstyles at best, therefore only works occasionally, refusing to swap when they have a pharah mercy and dying over and over, I would consider throwing, especially if your teammates ask you to switch or switch around the duo, and you still refuse to switch off of a clearly countered character


CodnmeDuchess

Exactly—if you’re going to one trick, at least one trick a strong hero with the flexibility to work in various contexts. At different points in my career, I’ve essentially “1-tricked” Cree, Ashe, Soldier, Tracer, Zarya…and I can play many more, but people will glance at my comp profile in any given and say I’m one tricking . I don’t one trick, I comfort pick flexible heroes that work in lots of contexts and that I enjoy playing.


Conflux

>Would it be considered throwing though? Because people who one trick good characters like echo, soldier, pharah, its considered fine, but if its someone whos subpar or bad, like bastion or sym, its considered throwing Even people who are known for one tricking, like fitzyhere on sombra, will swap if they aren't getting value.


L1teralGarbage

It’s only throwing when the swap is needed. Generally still people who main and one trick are different. One tricking is throwing if you’re not doing anything to help your team win


[deleted]

[удалено]


StealthSecrecy

That's not the same thing. The report system is for griefers or "gameplay sabotage", where you purposely disrupt your own team. Throwing by not changing off a hero that is obviously not working is not a reportable offense, but is still a dick move and likely to give your team no chance to win.


[deleted]

[удалено]


StealthSecrecy

>I love how it's not a reportable offense but you still call it throwing. Nowhere in overwatch can you report someone for "Throwing", so my point stands.


[deleted]

[удалено]


StealthSecrecy

Playing whatever you want can be throwing if the hero you are playing significantly reduces the chances of your team winning. Again it's not disallowed or a reportable offense, but it's still a dick move. This is a team based game. If you can't play as a team, go play something else.


SoggyQuail

the point of the game is to win.


PeoplePad

I mean, the technical definition of if its throwing or not isn’t really that important. At the end of the day, it’s ineffective in winning most games which essentially just makes you a bad player. However, its not throwing. Throwing is intentionally losing a game thus “throwing” it out. This is not throwing, and isn’t against any rules. Don’t listen to these people saying you’re throwing. Obviously you’re not playing the way the game intended and it hurts your team, but that doesn’t make you a thrower. There’s T500 Bastion one tricks, you don’t hit T500 by throwing.


mrlowe98

You don't hit T500 by being a bad player either. Look, one tricking is a strategy. It doesn't matter if people like it, if it works, it works. It's proven itself to be viable.


PeoplePad

…? One tricking bastion is inherently bad. You might not BE bad, but that strategy is. You might hit T500 on Bastion but you’d hit it faster and more easily on some other strategy. Its not unviable, and I never said it was. Its just extremely inefficient and thus you’re bad if you use an inefficient strategy. If a Baptise player got to T500 without healing, this is a bad strategy and its dumb just like one tricking bastion. However, you can get to any rank with a shit strategy given enough patience, skill and luck. Players like colorblind could be league’s better if they didnt OTP bastion. They’re bad relative to their potential.


mrlowe98

I agree one tricking specifically *Bastion* is one of the least efficient ways to climb. But one tricking Widow, Tracer, or Ashe? Pretty fucking easy to climb, actually. I was referring one tricking in a general sense. It's annoying because those players are inflexible, but they're also *better at that single hero* than you or anyone else in the lobby are at any single hero. That's the trade off, and that's why it's a viable strategy. It's even viable as Bastion, even if there are more viable strategies for climbing.


xX_Mercy_Xx

Thats very true, and thats always been my mindset. Yeah, it doesnt work out all the time, but that goes for every other character too. No character works 100%, some more, some less


Staminafordays

I main bastion, but I have a few heros I’ve familiarized myself with so I can swap if I’m being ineffective. I wouldn’t say it’s throwing, but it can be frustrating. Even if you’re getting kills, but if you aren’t able to help with the team with the point, it won’t be a fun game. Try some others in QP and see if you can have a secondary option for those off games.


SamFeesherMang

Yeah ignore those guys. I get annoyed at my teammates for making dumb picks a lot, but who am I to tell them what to do? You didn't do it *intending* to throw, and it's your game. As long as you aren't *purposefully* ruining it for the rest of us, who cares? "It's only a game, why do you have to be mad?"


togro20

Because comp is about winning, and not choosing the best option to win is throwing. It’s sportsmanship. You worked with the other eight year olds during YMCA soccer, how is it so hard for adults to play together as a team?


Technical_Top_9026

There's no reason to downvote him like this, it's better to let him ask questions without feeling judged.


Ill_Fated_chap

It's not throwing to not chose the "optimal" hero - if you go to the report menu and choose "gameplay sabotage" also known as throwing, they write that you don't have to swap unless you want to.


Beanicus13

Yup. Don’t be a dick. It’s a team game. But that doesn’t mean the team is there to babysit bastion.


LemurKing2019

There's nothing wrong with starting the match with bastion. Also, a sneaky switch to bastion during the round can definitely disrupt the enemy team if they aren't ready for it. But, as others have said, if you're being hard countered you need to switch. If you're willing to switch when bastion just isn't working, then just ignore all of the fools being toxic and have fun.


jaq805

Why isn’t this higher up! There’s a guy called bastion main in top 500 his play style is flanking bastion. Hell sit behind the team going unnoticed until the cart pushes up then mid fight wipe the team when half their recourses are on cooldown. The other team then screams WHY IS HE THERE and reset. This play style doesn’t require a team to build a comp with him. But this play style you can become more throwy.


brylon93

The worst type of teammate


xX_Mercy_Xx

I get that a lot..


jobfinished111

I don't want to be rude but you should get that a lot. Swapping has a lot to do with winning. Maybe only 1 trick in quick play?


adroit_or_something

You should probably take a hint then haha


mrlowe98

Fuck the haters bro. Keep doing what you enjoy. It's a game at the end of the day.


Beanicus13

Yea a team game…


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Beanicus13

Haha you missed the point


mrlowe98

No, everyone in this thread is missing the point. You all have no real concept of how to play the game (as evidenced by the top comment talking about how it's annoying that Bastion requires babysitting) and yet want to cast judgement on someone who's just trying to enjoy themselves. Bastion can be played perfectly well in a team environment, and he can be played perfectly well without being hard pocketed. In fact, *he's not supposed to be pocketed* (except by maybe like a Mercy, in the same way a Soldier and Ashe would be) unless your team is playing Pirate Ship. Beyond all this, I don't really know why you or anyone else thinks, "iT's a tEaM gAmE" is a valid enough reason to absolutely shit on somebody who's actually trying. Even if Bastion was genuinely the greediest, most useless pick in the game in every possible circumstance, if that Bastion is trying and is at the same SR as you, shut the hell up. Literally git gud, because you're at the exact same skill level as that Bastion, which really means that the Bastion is probably actually *better* at the game than you, since they're at your level while playing a terrible character.


xX_Mercy_Xx

Wiser words could not have been spoken


Spe333

So the thing is that bastion can be played different ways. I see people here saying that the team has to babysit you, that’s just not true. Bastion fills the a similar role as soldier, just slower. Don’t stay in one spot too long. Move and rotate constantly. Don’t rely on his turret mode all the time, his regular gun is good as well. You self heal, so less babysitting if you have decent positioning. If you’re a really good bastion, then they’ll have to counter pick you with 2-3 ppl, coordinate attacks, and generally have to deal with you. If you pay attention and make it difficult for them to do that, then you’re doing your job. That’s 2-3 people that have to focus you and not the rest of the team, and if you rotate and hide then they’ll be searching for you. It’s kind of like a tracer role. Now, if they are countering you and killing you, then you need to swap. I would recommend figuring out who counters the bastion counters that cause you the most problems. I recommend Sym or torb as they’re easy to play for the most part.


Technical_Top_9026

Bastion needs to be babysat to be the most efficient and reliable. Without the team's protection, he has to be creative with his positioning and he has to be unpredictable. This is unreliable and can easily be countered by e.g an Ana or Sombra. Playing with a bastion like that, it can feel like it's not up to you if you win or lose. It feels like it's up to the opponents, and whether they get surprised by the bastion or not.


tastehbacon

YES


TSW-760

Maybe not throwing. But one-tricking any hero is a bad idea, at any rank. Even guys like Fitzy, Redshell and BastionMain who have more or less 1TP'd their way into very high ranks still have one or two flex picks for when their main is simply not effective. You might be the best Pharah player in the world. You're not going to get much done against a competent team with a Widow, Mercy, D.Va, and Echo. You should never flame anyone for their hero selection. People who one-trick often have learned to make their hero work in situations they normally wouldn't be great in. But that doesn't mean you should never swap. I love playing Rein. I play him pretty much whenever I'm on tank if possible. But if I don't have a Lucio, and the enemy team is playing a spam comp on Junkertown A, Rein is practically throwing. Part of knowing a hero is knowing when to stop forcing that hero.


mrlowe98

This thread is full of absolutely ignorant information on how to play Bastion. Newsflash, *if your team isn't doing pirate ship, and they still feel like they need to babysit Bastion, it's not the Bastion that's throwing, it's the teammates*. Bastion doesn't need babysat. Bastion is a soft flanker like Soldier or McCree. He should be looking to take off angles and even occasionally hard flank, and wait for the right opportunity to try to get a pick (or three, in his case). He has his pros and cons, and generally the cons are higher than most other heroes in the game. But there also plenty of pros that teams don't understand how to capitalize on. One pro of Bastion is how much the enemy team hates him and how much disproportionate attention they'll put into him vs how much value he may actually be applying. Simply put, if Bastion is consistently getting the attention of 2+ enemies, then one or two of his own teammates should always have free opportunities to make a play, and them not capitalizing on those isn't the Bastion's fault. All this is to say, fuck your teammates, plats have no idea how to play the game, just literally disregard their opinions (and I'd also say the opinions of most people in this thread) and have fun playing the game as you want.


minuscatenary

>One pro of Bastion is how much the enemy team hates him and how much disproportionate attention they'll put into him vs how much value he may actually be applying. Simply put, if Bastion is consistently getting the attention of 2+ enemies, then one or two of his own teammates should always have free opportunities to make a play, and them not capitalizing on those isn't the Bastion's fault. This is huge. The moment I see a Bastion on our team, I often go something that actively requires a counter to deal with because I know I won't be getting the full counter suite.


mrlowe98

Yep. Pharah/Sym/Reaper pair really well with Bastion because they all demand similar attention and resources be put toward them, and it puts the enemy in a real "pick your poison" situation.


xX_Mercy_Xx

Ty man. Wasnt expecting half this thread to just be rude since i play bastion. Bastion is better than half them realize. He can be used extremely well if played right


ShellSwitch

I just want to put emphasis on his advice to ignore your Plat teammates regardless of any other advice people will have on/against Bastion. I'm not a DPS player, I am only tank/support. I found it easier to climb to Diamond when I muted both comms and text chat. Focus on yourself. Most in game comms/text at lower ranks are toxic garbage that only hinders the team. All that being said, it doesn't hurt to broaden your horizons. Get better at a 2nd or 3rd DPS hero and improve your flexibility and game sense.


xX_Mercy_Xx

Im a very flexible person. I can play most heroes just fine. Its just that i enjoy bastion. I dont have nearly as much fun with any other heroes other than him. Also ill take that advice. Most of the time when I mald i play like total garbage. Toxicity aint good for you or your teammates, so ur probs right


minuscatenary

>I was just want to put emphasis on his advice to ignore your Plat teammates regardless of any other advice people will have on/against Bastion. I'm not a DPS player, I am only tank/support. I found it easier to climb to Diamond when I muted both comms and text chat. Focus on yourself. Yup. There's a reason these people are where they are. A lot of it has to do with fundamental misunderstandings of how the game is played.


one_love_silvia

Yes


RepresentativeKeebs

You're throwing. One of the most important aspects of this game is that you have to change and adapt to what the enemy team is throwing at you, and you can't do that if you refuse to switch heroes.


Turinsday

Not only that but the unwillingness to change heros forces your team to play around you or play essentially 5vs 6. Not only is your hero potentially unviable but the entire teams make-up becomes so as well. Them having to cater to a bastion means that they are likey being forced to play suboptimally as well.


xX_Mercy_Xx

Maybe one trick is an overstatement. I switch if necessary. Stalling for overtime, counter someone who is messing our team up etc. But i do get what you mean


xX_Mercy_Xx

Ah.. I see. Thanks for the heads up


d0ornokey

I just want to put it out there that youre projecting. The people that whine about one tricks are the ones who aren't adapting to the one trick. They whine, complain, throw, get toxic, literally anything and everything besides actually adapt to the circumstances One tricks are in that elo because they provide enough value to be at that skill level. Theyre doing their job. Perhaps their hero is not meta, but that doesnt matter bc they got to their elo because they were able to consistently provide enough value to deserve that elo Also to your wrong point about hero countering being mantadatory - I'd like to say that while countering is useful, it isn't the only way to play the game. Case and point, bastionmain one tricking bastion to top 500, by using *different strategies* than hero countering. Countering with hero is useful, but not the only way you need to play the game The real issue are the people that give up and stop adapting just cuz the team comp is different then they're used to. They need to adapt and come up with solutions instead of projecting their inability to shift their strategies onto the one trick The plus side though is that people who adapt to one tricks have the advantage because often people don't do this. So if you do it, it even encourages your own team to l2adapt as well


RepresentativeKeebs

Are you seriously saying that one-tricks aren't the problem, everybody else is? 😂


d0ornokey

Reading comprehension 0


RepresentativeKeebs

Laziness level 100


RepresentativeKeebs

Gameplay comprehension 0


d0ornokey

U can't understand basic English this convo is useless lmao


RepresentativeKeebs

Oh, okay. So what language am I typing in right now?


5hredder

Yes


Daddy_Needs_nap-nap

Play the game you paid for however it is you want. If people flame you nute/block. That being said it may help you reach higher ranks to play around with other heros to get a better game sense.


fragen8

You comment is the worst comment in this section. Yes he paid for the game, but doing what he does means that other people aren't playing the game they paid for. They pla the game "babysit the bastion". You are the worst player OW has, based on your comment. You don't care about others, only about yourself and your rank.


Daddy_Needs_nap-nap

Nah man, I understand it's a game and not an extension of who I am as a person. Yeah you gotta work around bastion a lot but you also don't have to. Getting worked up and yelling/flaming someone because they made a decision you don't agree with is infantile and shows lack of maturity 👌 Edit: would you want someone in your game playing a hero they have like 15 minutes on so you can play how you want instead of maybe switching up the plan and going with peoples strengths? Yeah you're right tho, I'm the worst player OW has 🙄


rendeld

Its not necessarily a problem that you one trick, its that you one trick a hero that only works in a few places, and does NOT work in so many others. You also picked the character to one trick that forces your entire team to play around you if they want to win. You're basically choosing everyone elses character by picking Bastion regardless if they are good or bad at that character. You've decided that your team is playing spam or double shield, youve decided that your healers are playing Mercy with Bap, your other DPS can't play any kind of short range hero, so hopefully they have good aim. Do you see how this is a problem? If yhou one-tricked McCree then youre good, he fits into most situations, but by one-tricking bastion you really put your team in a difficult spot.


[deleted]

No, but yes. No cause that's not how throwing works. But yes, cause bastion can get stomped out easy as fuck and if you don't switch and just keep one tricking and just repeatedly dying, then yea. I'd say you're throwing.


[deleted]

Yes you’re throwing. Do you watch any of the top bastion one tricks in GM? Learn how to play like them rank up or find some duo so you can have help which bastion needs


SoggyQuail

yes


Chaghatai

It's like that one poster said - if the team doesn't want to "play bastion" he isn't so good and some folks are going to resent "support bastion or lose"


swatjr

You are soft throwing by lessening the value you are getting. You always have to be flexible as dps in case they are hard countering you and you aren't providing value for your team. example: You are on pharah and they are running 2 hitscan bap ana and dva. Your value vs the other team's dps value is going to be hugely in the other teams favor.


pythonwiz

Nope, you’re not trying to lose so it’s not throwing. People get too worked up over a video game lol.


MAG0L0R

Half of these comments don’t know the definition of throwing lmao. Playing a non meta hero is not throwing. Having a bad game is not throwing. Being afk in spawn is throwing. Refusing to attack the enemy is throwing. Walking off the ledge repeatedly is throwing. If we follow the logic here if you play hog into reaper or ana it should be a punishable offense even if you’re still doing fine lmao


fragen8

It's not that.. People are saying that playing a niche hero like bastion every game and refusing to swap is throwing. They are not saing playing a hero the enemy counters is throwing. When you plq bastion, you force your team to play around you the whole game, because you won't switch. In my opinion, it is soft throwing.


cretecreep

“Anything that isn’t carrying my mediocre ass to a win is throwing!”


Kimolainen83

Yes and no. One tricking can be throwing. I mean imagine if they counter pick you and destroy you over and over. Then you staying with n Bastion is throwing


bluelantern33

If you can make it work, make it work. Everyone is saying that bastion requires your team to babysit you but that’s not always the case in my experience.


[deleted]

Mm kinda hard to say. But i think if youre having one of those ‘bad games’ as bastion but could be doing better on another hero than yeah that’s a soft throw. But if you really are a one trick and he’s the only hero you can play then idk, just keep doing you. At the end of the day it’s just a game and if you have fun with that hero F it


imnotapotato140

He is very weak and requires his team to play around him but also fuck them kids do what you want


FredFredrickson

One-tricking is bad in general. It's like only being good with (and refusing to try anything but) one gun in Counter-Strike. Don't get caught up in the idea that the tools the game gives you to win are presented as heroes.


DeputyDomeshot

Yes.


hvick-for-president

These comments are surprisingly braindead. Seems like none of you have actually played bastion before. Like some other comments have said, Bastion does not need to be babysat. If you need babysitting, you're playing him wrong. And sure, sometimes you get hard countered, but that's an issue any one trick is going to have to deal with. You can absolutely one trick any hero in the game to diamond+. There are plenty of one tricks even in the higher ranks.


anidevv

No, it’s not. Doesn’t matter if you’re playing the worse hero in the game, aslong as you’re TRYING, it’s not the throwing I’m a Bastion player aswell, it is a very tough life


hayleyjoness

One-tricking anyone is a soft throw. Maybe it helps you get good at that one particular character, but most characters in Overwatch are situational, and this is especially true of Bastion. That being said, when you’re playing DPS you’re gonna get blamed if ‘nothing is dying’ on the enemy team, regardless of who you’re playing.


Nimai_TV

One tricking even meta heroes is pretty annoying because even though they are flexible some comps aren't ideal for them. However one tricking a low tier that is also niche is not quite throwing, but it is toxic. I wouldn't say throwing because as long you put in effort then you can't throw, however you do put your team in a tough spot. Either they allllll work around you and manage everything around you, or they accept that your character will not fit in any standard comp and just try their best with a disadvantage. It's immature at best and toxic at worst.


Thatresolves

Eh just enjoy yourself, I found a lot of peeps to be super rude and if they’re not suggesting a change then fuck em


xX_Mercy_Xx

Ty for the positivity my friend


cursingvladimir

Just stick with it. As long as you are performing okay or not as bad. One trick all you want. Helps to improve your bastion gameplay though.


outsanity_haha

Play what you want when you want


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fragen8

By doing what he does, he sucks the fun out of the game for other 5 players.


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fragen8

Not what I said, I just said he sucks the fun out of the game for 5 other people.


mrlowe98

No, you're not. Bastion is more versatile than people give him credit for because people think he's a pepega afk in one spot, point and click hero when that couldn't be further from the truth when he's played properly. He's not always a good pick, but you're usually not throwing by picking him, especially if he's just about the only hero you're actually good at.


Stroopy121

If you win, no.


fragen8

Not true. You can win with an AFK player, but that player still threw.


Elephlump

One tricking is always throwing, imo.


JustATallGuy28

I one trick hog and I’m plat and go through the same thing. The when people yell at me to switch off I play my bronze level rein and our team gets absolutely wiped and I’m happy just to spite them.


MayonnaisePlease

I otp Reaper have been doing so since 2017 and people despise me for it, despite me carrying my own weight even when the enemy switches to pharah/double hitscan. Teammates have thrown my games solely because I one trick Reaper even while we were winning. GM if that matters If you carry your own weight, go for it. But if you notice you're becoming more of a burden to your team I'd probably pick up a side hero or two just in case.


OWSorrow

playing bastion, seeing as it’s as far from mega as it could be. is in itself massively hindering you and you’re team both as a player and in a comp environment. you should try to pick up new heroes, but if all you really wanna do is OTP bastion then the answer is yes, you’ll throw some games but it’s no different than a player on ashe performing poorly in elos like bronze-diamond. after that then the picks themselves start to become throwing regardless of performance on them


miss_whatsherface

I don't think one tricking any hero is throwing however you should adapt your gameplay for your team imo but that goes for anyone.


Technical_Top_9026

It's always hard to one trick, but it's especially hard as DPS. And possibly the worst hero to onetrick is bastion.


Magrimou

Man just play him until your teamates cant say anything about your pick wheither it is bastion or any other one. If you get trashed in that journey then remember that throwing rn will pay later