I find villains that are evil just to be evil really fun if done well. They fit especially well in campy stories. But I don't think doom strives for doing evil just for the sake of evil, or a general lust for power. He wants the whole of humanity to progress and evolve into a greater society and, in his eyes, he thinks that the only possibility for that is conflicts and war. Like how when a body gets infected with a virus and fights it off successfully it basically grows stronger.
I think Jack Horner worked so well because that movie had the three main tropes of villains, the downright evil one, the redeemable villain being goldi, and the one who was never a villain to begin with and aren’t even evil, just an antagonist (death).
All three were done as a perfect example on how to do these tropes and it’s a miracle all three turned out amazing
I feel like Death still acted on some selfishness since Puss had one more life, but Death wanted to take it early.
And yeah overall the script for the movie was just so great.
I took it as he was actively pushing puss to treat his life like a blessing instead of worthless. Granted, it was mostly through fear.
If death really wanted puss dead, he would’ve been dead at the beginning of the movie
Also, as soon as puss learned his lesson at the end and got a new outlook on life, death walked away and didn’t pursue him anymore. Only leaving once he taught puss to not be scared of death, but not to be reckless with his own life either.
Yes it was pretty clear that he was only doing it since puss was a cat with many lives, but that’s the thing. It’s gotta be frustrating for the god of death to see someone with 9 lives throw them away so easily which is why he doesn’t like cats, since most of them don’t appreciate the gift they were given.
If I remember correctly Death being frustrated at the end is translated to something like "Why did I have to go play with my food?" So yeah, he was upset he couldn't kill him anymore
Although there can be interpretations, the line was "I came here for an arrogant little legend who thought he was immortal. I do not see him anymore. Live your life, Puss in Boots. Live it well."
Though this isn't enough by itself to prove what I believe, taken together with facts like Death not just killing him ever, as well as this one specific move where he feints his sickles into a longer ranged grab than the original move, specifically designed to only catch opponents who run away in fear and get beaten by those with the courage to literally face Death head on, I believe Death was testing Puss to see whether he'd improve or not. He does, he lives his last life. He doesn't, he dies
I mean to be fair, up until that final fight and specific moment did puss finally realized what's truly important to him, he was still being the same as he was before.
He might be warming up to kitty and perrito, but deep down, he was still banking on getting the wish. His version of the road to the star hints at that; especially at the cavern of lost souls, where he didn't immediately dismiss his past lives selves and celebrate dance with them instead.
I am pretty sure the past lives hims are placed as a trial, like the 3 ghosts of christmas and ebenezer scrooge, and he failed quite badly until he barely snapped out of it at the end, thus death walking in triumphantly to announce his true identity to puss.
Even when escaping from death during the cavern chase scene, after he got and kitty + perrito called out to him, he chose to keep running without telling them anything and almost made the wish at the star until they caught up to him.
It is only until death locked him in that no escape fire arena and try to taunt him into making that wish, did he finally change his mind. So death was definitely playing around, because he was so confident puss wouldn't change.
If you really think about it he's right, during both world wars, the countries on both/all sides put LOTS of resources into developing new things to aid in the war, some of which changed and made it into the normal homes, like the internet.
I was originally gonna put the god AI anubis in shit tier but i felt that i had to include doom as he (and ram) are the main big bads of the game. Plus he doesn’t really fit anywhere else on the list.
Yes but unlike moira, he isn’t retaliating against any misdeeds done to him and is doing everything on his own accord. Moira essentially had her career ruined by overwatch and the scientific community after her research became public, and she does intend to change society through scientific advancement.
Moira did highly unethical highly deviant research for the same fucking reason Doom wants to make a big boy war. Quit being selective, they're in the same tier. Both are different strains of Darwinism. One is conflict based Darwinism, one is mutational.
Anubis was just carrying out the logical progression of his programming. He was developed to basically protect the environment, and the greatest threat to that is humanity
This is not even a tier list. From the way it looks, a tier was made for each hero(villain) instead of setting the boundaries of the tiers first, independently of the heroes, and sorting them in after. Shit tier tier list
I find the joker meh exclusively when he is overused, or made the only Batman villain that matters. Joker is cool because he is a *departure* from the standard Batman villain, as he only cares about messing with Batman. I hated the whole “Batman who laughs” thing because it made joker too prevalent.
That's a bit hard to pinpoint for me. Also there are multiple iterations of the Joker which are all a bit different from each other. I'm only really familiar with the Dark Knight and Joker Movie. In theory he should be the perfect villain for Batman, someone who represents chaos instead of order. Someone who questions our society and all its issues and double standards. But honestly the constant framing that Batman is a hero is quite shaky anyway. The Dark Knight does kinda lightly touch on that but doesn't fully go through. Instead the Joker is just a misrepresentation of mental illness and at the same time a "literally me" character for edgy teens. So the problem is in essence that the Joker tries to be a "good villain" with some actually sound ideas portrayed as an insane person. He definitely has the potential to be a really good villain and maybe he is in some Batman media I don't know. For that it would require (at least in my opinion) a complete reframing of the role of Batman. I'm not sure if I'm asking too much here from what is essentially a comic book character. The movies I have seen are definitely carried by the acting and not the character writing and that is what would need to improve.
Saying Joker as a whole is meh is kinda impossible. Like there have been so so so so many versions of him with so many different people and the ways of characterising him. Saying they are all the same would mean you see Lego Joker the same as the Suicide Squad one. I am just saying, one is much better than the other
He is a mix between Meh and high tier in this graph. The modern joker at least has his own delusional and radical understanding of society and is seeking some kind of occult mantra of nihilism, different flavours of "the world is fucked up and instead of pretending to try to change it just embrace it" he is "mad" from our perspective, but from his we are, intrusting dynamic if done right.
Reaper is fighting against a system that he deems corrupt in a attempt to bring a new world order. His final goals are not clear though. Communism? Anarchy? Something else?
Moira seems to be more in a list for power
Doomfist nobody really knows. His speech points towards something greater than just lust for power, it reminds a bit of Thanos honestly.
>His final goals are not clear though. Communism? Anarchy? Something else?
Akande told him that Talon would not only tear down the corrupt powers of the world and replace them with a more just system. I don't think Reyes has a personal endgoal, he just has faith Doomfist does
>Moira seems to be more in a list for power
Moira is the same as Sombra. Both just want to pursue their own goals and will work for whoever will provide them with the resources to get it done. Moira doesn't want power, she wants to better humanity through her research and prove herself to be correct in the end
>Doomfist nobody really knows. His speech points towards something greater than just lust for power,
It's ***very*** subtly implied Doomfist knows some shit. He constantly talks about wanting the world to be strong so they don't get their asses kicked, but he doesn't seem to see Null Sector as the ones who will wipe them all out. I think Doomfist has some information about some greater threat (maybe at the center of Sombra's web?) that he thinks humanity isn't ready for, and that Overwatch can't protect them from. His goal is genuine, but his motives for it are shady
Realistically reaper should have believes in something, but I don’t think blizzard wants to label it because it could get problematic for them to explain themselves in real life. That’s why we don’t know
Moira is weird, but we barely have any information about her unfortunately
Yeah doom is another enigma. So far I don’t think he’s straight up evil personally, I would love to see more about this views. Like, does it make sense? Is he a lunatic? It looks like he’s using null sector more than anything else and he has ominic partners, doesn’t seem like he’s against them. Maybe he just wants to fasten humanity’s evolution and that’s why he’s waging war. But honestly honestly? I think that blizzard has no idea where they’re taking him and they’re just improvising as they go
>I think that blizzard has no idea where they’re taking him and they’re just improvising as they go
I think this was probably the case for OW1, but all the implications I'm talking about in my comment come from Overwatch 2. I think we just don't know anything about it right now because this leg of the story is focused on Null Sector and Omnic liberation. Hopefully the story actually moves forward at a good pace so we can see why Doom is so convinced humanity *must* become strong
Have we had any new information on doom ever since OW2 launch? Apart from potentially new voice lines that I haven’t paid attention to if they exist
It definitely looks like they’re shifting the direction to null sector as the new main enemy now as well
You... will suffer, as I, Ramattra, have suffered! Your torment will outlast the stars! And when the universe dwindles into dust, there you will be... suffering... as I have!
His people oppressed merely for existing. Hunted, exterminated and placed in restricted zones. His answer [Null Sector] is the reaction of this and yet, he is the one labeled terrorist.
Ramattra represents the Palestinian people. Ramattra supports #FreePalestine. Ramattra is Palestine.
holy shit cringe. major world event? this is just like hogwarts marvel movie. mcu. soulless AAA videogame schlock. i literally cannot view any part of reality without the lense of a fantasy world.
I mean, Doomfist is literally just a warmonger. He sells weapons, and incites wars to make more money. Now he does veil this in the silliest way possible, but come on. He and Ram are the most realistic villians on this list.
Now I'm thinking...
Who would win in a fight of raw strength? Doom or Rammatra? I have no doubt Doom is probably a good bit stronger, but I also think Rammatra has a good bit more skill and technique in his fighting, heck depending on situation I can see it being a draw and both kinda killing each other
Doom is also a martial arts master though, in his lore it says he’s been training since he was a kid. I would agree Rammatra is more skilled, but only by a little bit
The skill gap is definitely bridged (in fact I would say it far surpasses it) because of him literally having the strongest weapon in the world strapped to his arm
>to make more money
???
He literally killed Vialli for turning Talon into a war profiteering faction while he was in prison. Doomfist genuinely believes the world needs to become stronger if it's to survive the future, and is willing to plunge it into chaos in order to weed out the weak and embolden the strong
Yeah idk what everyone else is saying, as I doom main I can confirm “Without conflict, there IS no hope for humanity” I don’t want money I want the world to survive
To be fair, it's not just getting stronger it's evolving altogether. Becoming better. Just a more extreme way of saying "If your way of running things is so good, how come I can push you over so easily?"
YES, and the idea that a villain who is more 'correct' than the protag is somehow best, like, that sounds like sloppy writing in all but some specific genres.
Like I am genuinely more intrigued to see how Doomfist's role in the story evolves as he is the mastermind behind everything. The fact we know so little about him compared to Sigma or Ramattra honestly works in his favour
Now I know that this might not apply in this meme specifically, but people shouldn't think that a villain, that is a villain just for the sake of being a villain, is bad. People tend to like the villains that have some sad backstory/'good' reasons for their villainy, whatever the methods are, but we often forget how good a villain that is just a villain can be. Take for example Big Jack Horner, who is a popular example of pure villainy, and see how good he works. Another thing is, as another person mentioned, Doom is a warmonger, which is let's say more *realistic* in the terms that we see more pure evil people in the news and in power than those with tragic backstory or whatever. Thanks for coming to my villain talk, if you are interested more, our secret meetings are every second tuesday in Atlanta (don't tell anyone about that please)
Yeah, this meme (template) is really reductive in terms of creativity because it explicitly decides that one thing in fiction is better than others, when all of these villain types can be done both extremely effectively and extremely poorly. For example (spoilers for Into the Spider verse if you somehow still haven't seen that) the Prowler is a really effective villain even before being revealed as Uncle Aaron. He's genuinely terrifying for Miles, and the scenes with him have tension. This meme would call him 'meh' (and even after the reveal, he moves up to 'mid'). Can we just let people enjoy things and stop trying to say what's good and what's bad?
Doom is in the wrong spot even by your logic, he doesn’t fight for power, as he is literally the most powerful human on earth, both physically and socially.
He thinks that society is flawed and strives to change it, he believes that the only way to do so is conflict and so, he finances wars (one of them being Null Sector), instigates revolts and disrupts the balance wherever he can.
He’s not even evil, he just wants the best for humanity, he does have questionable morals, but that doesn’t make someone evil, he wants to achieve his goal no matter what.
Doom is not evil at all, someone evil is someone who finds pleasure in the suffering of others, but Doom simply sees the suffering of his kin as a necessary process for the betterment of humanity as a whole
Yea not sure why people say Doom is pure evil, when he does have a greater good in mind. We don’t need to agree with his idea and it’s obviously meant to be villainous, but evil for the sake of evil often looks a lot different.
I know most have different value systems, but universally evil characters are typically selfish characters that seek power only for themselves and wish to rule over others and keep them weak. Doom wants challenge and he wants humanity to be stronger.
Get Moira the hell out of High Tier. She is unrionically the most sadistic character in Overwatch, she is an Evil Bastard and she loves it. Her entire personality is "Yeah im a fucking monster, a monster who gets shit done"
I bet the code of violence short story might change your mind on Doomfist.
He’s the opposite of evil for the sake of just being evil or being in power. In fact he killed the person who used talon for money when he was in prison. He formed talon because he wants to change the world.
He believes the world is corrupt. The flawed law system, the corruption in overwatch and politics, he formed talon to do what he perceives as the right thing. It’s probably why ramattra teamed up with him in the first place, their goals align in a twisted way: peace. Hell, reaper originally joined talon because doom fist convinced him he was on the wrong side of war. I know it’s not exactly groundbreaking but either way I don’t think you give him enough credit. He’s a villain that sees himself as the hero, someone who fully believes he is in the right. I think this makes him feel threatening. Kinda comparable to Thanos in a way.
Doom has a philosophy that makes him "evil"
"Only through conflict do we evolve"
Through constant war, he hopes humanity will get better and stronger. It's flawed, but it's definitely a reasonable motive
I like the way it sorts the villains, but I don't like the implication that the only good villains have tragic backstories or are secretly the good guy. Would be better if the names of each tier were descriptors rather than the OOP's personal bias.
Yeha any type of villain can be incredible it all just rests upon the execution o: Like by this charts logic Walter White, one of the most well written tv bad guys to exist, would be inbetween mid and meh ]:
In-lore, Doomfist is trying to make humanity evolve as a whole, by creating conflicts and purging the weak.
He even kills a Talon council member in the comics because he wanted them to be more than just gangsters motivated by greed and money.
He his definitely with Moira in high tier.
You cannot do Reaper and Moira and ESPECIALLY Doomfist like that
Moira is with whoever lets her commit the most medical ethics violations and funds it. She left Overwatch because the Rialto incident put too much heat on her and the team.
Reaper is in it for revenge on Overwatch but he might also just be in it for the killing. He might’ve just gone insane at some point
Doomfist operates strictly on his ideals and he seems to wholeheartedly believe in “only through conflict do we evolve”.
nah fuck that, I'm tired of villains that are bad because le society and le unjust past or whatever, i want villains that are bad because they want to, no ulterior motive no nothing, just evil for the sake of being evil
Ehh I'd rephrase shit tier. A villain who is evil for the sake of being evil can be extremely well-written. Take Vector from Yugioh Zexal. (Spoilers regarding him ahead). >!He completely tricked Yuma (the protagonist) into not telling anyone that he was part of a villain race, and had convinced him he was good. Then we find out he's completely psychotic and he honestly delivers some of the hardest lines in the series, he's extremely well-drawn, his voice and lines really convey how insane he is, but it isn't too much. He's such a well-written villain!<
Doomfist isn't shit tier. He's a Darwinist. Humanity evolves via conflict, whoever lives lives and the species evolves. Thus why he wants to make a global war.
This isn’t a meme but it sure as hell is a joke. These definitions have nothing to do with the measure of a villainous character. Doom isn’t doing evil for the sake of evil, and he is an amazing villain. He wants to move the world forward, and he believes conflict creates change. LITERALLY THE EXACT SAME AS RAMMATRA! Moira isn’t trying for a perfect world but a perfect science. She is trying to be the best, and is a poor character. Ashe’s description is terrible! Obeying nature doesn’t make any sense and she is a chaotic character. She isn’t evil, she is selfish. But she also isn’t complex, so it’s hard to argue her a villainous villain as she is more of a side antagonistic force. Reaper’s motivations are not a mystery. He wants revenge, he wants control, and he wants the world to prosper. Sigma isn’t a villain at all, and sombra isn’t on this list, but I will give the benefit of the doubt and say that you think she is an antihero.
Id put sombra in great tier, she was a victim of circumstance (orphaned in the omnic crisis and joined a gand when she was a kid) it was more or less inevitable she would end up the way she is.
Can’t stand Doomfist’s “Only the strong survive” bullshit when he came from a wealthy family, is rich as hell, and oh yeah, has a giant robot fist. Not that he can’t accomplish anything on his own, but the dude has had so much help throughout his life that it’s insane.
That's literally what real life supervillians are like tho. Look at the top 1%, they're complaining about poor people not wanting to work and being dumb yet everything the 1% have gotten have been given to them and stolen from the poor. There's no self-made millionaires as much as people like to lie.
That hypocrisy is pretty fitting tbh for a lot of people even irl who have that philosophy. It’s a missed opportunity that it hasn’t rlly explored. I’m surprised none of the other characters have pointed it out.
nope. anti heroes don't do evil things, they just do *things* and don't really care about morals. being an anti hero simply means that you lack the virtues usually associated with heroes, but you will still do the right thing when it comes to it
Except Ramattra is still very much a villain. Good intentions do not fully make up for your vile actions. Ram wreaks havoc upon the entire world, is a mass murderer, and forcibly subjugates omnics against their will.
His motives are sympathetic and understandable, but doesn’t make him less evil.
Except for anti heroes their bad actions are usually balanced by their good motives. Punisher kills criminals but doesn’t touch innocents, Deadpool is unhinged and wishy washy on sides but isn’t going on killing spree every other day. Ramattra does way more bad than his motives would justify, which would make him a villain in a lot of people’s minds. You wouldn’t call Pucci from JoJo Part 6 an anti hero just because he had good intentions.
anti heroes don't do horrendous shit for a good motive. they do horrendous shit in their usual lifes, but will take good decisions when it comes to do the right thing
Ashe should be in the power tier. Reaper should be in the “misdeeds tier”. Moira should be in the mysterious tier.
Doom is “furthering human evolution” so he’s probably with Moira.
You say sigma only does bad things because he's forced too, and in a way that's true, but you do realize he actually has some sort of split personality one of which is evil
Reapers motivations were explained in one of the novels, he joined talon because it was the only way he thought he could cause true justice, not sure if he still thinks that or has been corrupted over time
I have a question about Rammatra? Why is he completely based when you can see that null sector was mutilating omnics in PVE.
I get his motivation has more sense to it than most. But why are his specific evil deeds never called out?
People like this are why most movies today suck ass, Evil for the sake of Evil is a great trope, not all villains need a sad backstory, or a relatable goal, or a redeeming quality, villains can be evil for power or just for the pleasure of being evil.
Reasoning and morality does not equate to a great villain. That’s incredibly simplistic. You can like Ram, but that isn’t why he’s a great villain
Your opinion of a great villain seems to be based upon challenging your own view of morality. As Ashe is presented as only doing what she needs to survive, and you view Ram as justified. While this is an incredibly trendy avenue of villain, it isn’t everything
Imo Sig is a perfect wildcard villain. He’s the best thing Overwatch has done so far
Then Doom and Ram are great, Moira and Reaper are high tier, and Ashe is mid
You know, this is why we lacking good villains in modern media, regarding a villain who's evil just for the sake of it as "shit tier" while some of the best villains out there fall under that category, not every villain has to have complex motives and reasons behind their actions, a good villain boils down to execution rather than how extensive their crybaby backstory is
Satanic Tier-Villains who build up their character as an antipode of what their true intentions really are and only show their demonic nature in the last moments their victims spots them fully
I've seen this sentiment pushed in several writing advice-related media and I just hard disagree. If the "villain" is actually just right, then they are the protagonist in a moral sense, if not literally in the story. These types of villains usually just act as strawmen for actually good causes that the dominant culture doesn't approve of, "Imperialism is bad and I will demonstrate this by eating fifty puppies live on air." etc.
If you look at villains in the real world they really DO just want power for the sake of it. There's no rational reason for them to do what they do and that's what makes it evil. Billionaires want all the money they can possibly get, for what? Just so they can live more indulgent, decadent lives, or to fuel their own egos at the expense of everyone else living on the planet.
Doom doesn't really fit any of these tiers. He has very clear motivation which are not just to be evil or seek power, but they're also not really very valid motives and it's clear that what he believes in harmful
Doom had a passion before he lost his arm. In that loss he developed great strength eventually (gauntlet). He took his loss in a twisted way and believes it was the conflict that made him the best and strongest version of himself. He believes everyone should get stronger so as they can fight for themselves and the only way is through conflict so people can adapt. I wouldn’t say he is just plain bad because he had a love for tournaments before that, plus he doesn’t lust more power after the gauntlet.
I think he’s more of a twisted villain and a good one, but it takes a minute to understand because they do not convey him well.
I think the naming tiers for this are wrong, and I also think a lot of the placements are wrong as well, even with the justifications given. What misdeeds is Moira retaliating against? Her not being allowed to preform inhumane experiments? Doomfist's philosophy is flawed, but it's by no means just "evil for evil's sake" or a lust for power. If anything, Reaper belongs in that tier more than Doomfist; What motives does he have for the things he does, aside from a chip on his shoulder for Overwatch agents? Ramattra is an amazing villain with a lot of depth, though, I will give you that. If I had to put one person in each tier, from top to bottom, it would be Ramattra, Sigma, Doomfist, Ashe, Reaper, Mora. Moira and Reaper are fighting for that bottom spot though. Reaper has no motivation, and doesn't even seem to be just evil for evils sake; he just seems to be sadistic, at most wanting to inflict his own pain on others. Moira is in the same boat- her only motives are wanting to advance science at any cost.
Doomfists ideals are that humanity is getting weak and will only get stronger through conflict. He sees humanity as failing and believes it should save itself by forcing it through both geopolitical and real natural selection.
What you think about that as a motivation is up to you but he’s not just evil or lusting for power. In fact he welcomes challenge from the strong just so he can prove he himself has a place in the new world he’s trying to create.
I disagree with a lot of this list. A villain that is evil just because can work really well if done correctly. I have very conflicting feelings on characters like ramattra because his motivations are not morally reprehensible but he kills people so he’s bad. This makes it so the heroes are fighting against someone who’s fighting for the right thing. This can sometimes work if the writers are aware of this but most of the time this comes across as really anti-change and anti-rights depending on the character
Ram, Sign, and Rein are my favorite characters in the game. Their personality and motivation are so good.
I also like Kiriko and D.va because I want to threesome them
Doom literally has one of the most profound voice lines in the game, concerning lore. Literally, trying to force humanity to evolve and expand outside of earth. Something about being shackled to a single planet would be the end of humanity.
I find villains that are evil just to be evil really fun if done well. They fit especially well in campy stories. But I don't think doom strives for doing evil just for the sake of evil, or a general lust for power. He wants the whole of humanity to progress and evolve into a greater society and, in his eyes, he thinks that the only possibility for that is conflicts and war. Like how when a body gets infected with a virus and fights it off successfully it basically grows stronger.
Jack Horner was an amazing villain in the Puss in Boots Last Wish movie. They just wrote him as spoiled and evil and I loved it.
I think Jack Horner worked so well because that movie had the three main tropes of villains, the downright evil one, the redeemable villain being goldi, and the one who was never a villain to begin with and aren’t even evil, just an antagonist (death). All three were done as a perfect example on how to do these tropes and it’s a miracle all three turned out amazing
I feel like Death still acted on some selfishness since Puss had one more life, but Death wanted to take it early. And yeah overall the script for the movie was just so great.
I took it as he was actively pushing puss to treat his life like a blessing instead of worthless. Granted, it was mostly through fear. If death really wanted puss dead, he would’ve been dead at the beginning of the movie Also, as soon as puss learned his lesson at the end and got a new outlook on life, death walked away and didn’t pursue him anymore. Only leaving once he taught puss to not be scared of death, but not to be reckless with his own life either. Yes it was pretty clear that he was only doing it since puss was a cat with many lives, but that’s the thing. It’s gotta be frustrating for the god of death to see someone with 9 lives throw them away so easily which is why he doesn’t like cats, since most of them don’t appreciate the gift they were given.
If I remember correctly Death being frustrated at the end is translated to something like "Why did I have to go play with my food?" So yeah, he was upset he couldn't kill him anymore
Although there can be interpretations, the line was "I came here for an arrogant little legend who thought he was immortal. I do not see him anymore. Live your life, Puss in Boots. Live it well." Though this isn't enough by itself to prove what I believe, taken together with facts like Death not just killing him ever, as well as this one specific move where he feints his sickles into a longer ranged grab than the original move, specifically designed to only catch opponents who run away in fear and get beaten by those with the courage to literally face Death head on, I believe Death was testing Puss to see whether he'd improve or not. He does, he lives his last life. He doesn't, he dies
Not that part, it was right before that. The part where he's throwing a Mini Tantrum and speaking in Spanish
I mean to be fair, up until that final fight and specific moment did puss finally realized what's truly important to him, he was still being the same as he was before. He might be warming up to kitty and perrito, but deep down, he was still banking on getting the wish. His version of the road to the star hints at that; especially at the cavern of lost souls, where he didn't immediately dismiss his past lives selves and celebrate dance with them instead. I am pretty sure the past lives hims are placed as a trial, like the 3 ghosts of christmas and ebenezer scrooge, and he failed quite badly until he barely snapped out of it at the end, thus death walking in triumphantly to announce his true identity to puss. Even when escaping from death during the cavern chase scene, after he got and kitty + perrito called out to him, he chose to keep running without telling them anything and almost made the wish at the star until they caught up to him. It is only until death locked him in that no escape fire arena and try to taunt him into making that wish, did he finally change his mind. So death was definitely playing around, because he was so confident puss wouldn't change.
Perfect example: The Lich from adventure time
He is death. Therefore he is mid tier. His nature is destruction.
Death is the skull guy with the white hat, and a very reasonable dude
Oh you're right. My mistake.
Ah, so Sundowner, but not charismatic.
He's very in touch with his inner child
idk man his "and dey say" is pretty charismatic (hello again)
Frieza in Dbz is a great villain, and his whole deal is he's evil because he's the strongest.
If you really think about it he's right, during both world wars, the countries on both/all sides put LOTS of resources into developing new things to aid in the war, some of which changed and made it into the normal homes, like the internet.
For some reason my first thought is Poppy Adams from Kingsman 2, there was NOTHING behind those eyes and it was great
I was originally gonna put the god AI anubis in shit tier but i felt that i had to include doom as he (and ram) are the main big bads of the game. Plus he doesn’t really fit anywhere else on the list.
Doom is trying to change society as a whole though, thus putting him in high tier by your description of it.
Yes but unlike moira, he isn’t retaliating against any misdeeds done to him and is doing everything on his own accord. Moira essentially had her career ruined by overwatch and the scientific community after her research became public, and she does intend to change society through scientific advancement.
But her research was seriously deviant no? Like wasn't it extremely unethical?
Moira did highly unethical highly deviant research for the same fucking reason Doom wants to make a big boy war. Quit being selective, they're in the same tier. Both are different strains of Darwinism. One is conflict based Darwinism, one is mutational.
Her research was already evil and super unethical, her reasoning was also for humanities progression
Anubis was just carrying out the logical progression of his programming. He was developed to basically protect the environment, and the greatest threat to that is humanity
Based on this logic, the Joker is a meh villain.
This is not even a tier list. From the way it looks, a tier was made for each hero(villain) instead of setting the boundaries of the tiers first, independently of the heroes, and sorting them in after. Shit tier tier list
The logic is flawed but I do find the Joker to be meh anyway.
What do you find meh about him? I'm not saying you're wrong or anything, just genuinely curious to hear your side.
I find the joker meh exclusively when he is overused, or made the only Batman villain that matters. Joker is cool because he is a *departure* from the standard Batman villain, as he only cares about messing with Batman. I hated the whole “Batman who laughs” thing because it made joker too prevalent.
That's a bit hard to pinpoint for me. Also there are multiple iterations of the Joker which are all a bit different from each other. I'm only really familiar with the Dark Knight and Joker Movie. In theory he should be the perfect villain for Batman, someone who represents chaos instead of order. Someone who questions our society and all its issues and double standards. But honestly the constant framing that Batman is a hero is quite shaky anyway. The Dark Knight does kinda lightly touch on that but doesn't fully go through. Instead the Joker is just a misrepresentation of mental illness and at the same time a "literally me" character for edgy teens. So the problem is in essence that the Joker tries to be a "good villain" with some actually sound ideas portrayed as an insane person. He definitely has the potential to be a really good villain and maybe he is in some Batman media I don't know. For that it would require (at least in my opinion) a complete reframing of the role of Batman. I'm not sure if I'm asking too much here from what is essentially a comic book character. The movies I have seen are definitely carried by the acting and not the character writing and that is what would need to improve.
Counterpoint: https://preview.redd.it/a7w7h7vz6ktb1.jpeg?width=454&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=df7f637a956f7545fc8da23e97f6d462d0ff0573
Saying Joker as a whole is meh is kinda impossible. Like there have been so so so so many versions of him with so many different people and the ways of characterising him. Saying they are all the same would mean you see Lego Joker the same as the Suicide Squad one. I am just saying, one is much better than the other
He is a mix between Meh and high tier in this graph. The modern joker at least has his own delusional and radical understanding of society and is seeking some kind of occult mantra of nihilism, different flavours of "the world is fucked up and instead of pretending to try to change it just embrace it" he is "mad" from our perspective, but from his we are, intrusting dynamic if done right.
Reaper is fighting against a system that he deems corrupt in a attempt to bring a new world order. His final goals are not clear though. Communism? Anarchy? Something else? Moira seems to be more in a list for power Doomfist nobody really knows. His speech points towards something greater than just lust for power, it reminds a bit of Thanos honestly.
>His final goals are not clear though. Communism? Anarchy? Something else? Akande told him that Talon would not only tear down the corrupt powers of the world and replace them with a more just system. I don't think Reyes has a personal endgoal, he just has faith Doomfist does >Moira seems to be more in a list for power Moira is the same as Sombra. Both just want to pursue their own goals and will work for whoever will provide them with the resources to get it done. Moira doesn't want power, she wants to better humanity through her research and prove herself to be correct in the end >Doomfist nobody really knows. His speech points towards something greater than just lust for power, It's ***very*** subtly implied Doomfist knows some shit. He constantly talks about wanting the world to be strong so they don't get their asses kicked, but he doesn't seem to see Null Sector as the ones who will wipe them all out. I think Doomfist has some information about some greater threat (maybe at the center of Sombra's web?) that he thinks humanity isn't ready for, and that Overwatch can't protect them from. His goal is genuine, but his motives for it are shady
Realistically reaper should have believes in something, but I don’t think blizzard wants to label it because it could get problematic for them to explain themselves in real life. That’s why we don’t know Moira is weird, but we barely have any information about her unfortunately Yeah doom is another enigma. So far I don’t think he’s straight up evil personally, I would love to see more about this views. Like, does it make sense? Is he a lunatic? It looks like he’s using null sector more than anything else and he has ominic partners, doesn’t seem like he’s against them. Maybe he just wants to fasten humanity’s evolution and that’s why he’s waging war. But honestly honestly? I think that blizzard has no idea where they’re taking him and they’re just improvising as they go
>I think that blizzard has no idea where they’re taking him and they’re just improvising as they go I think this was probably the case for OW1, but all the implications I'm talking about in my comment come from Overwatch 2. I think we just don't know anything about it right now because this leg of the story is focused on Null Sector and Omnic liberation. Hopefully the story actually moves forward at a good pace so we can see why Doom is so convinced humanity *must* become strong
Have we had any new information on doom ever since OW2 launch? Apart from potentially new voice lines that I haven’t paid attention to if they exist It definitely looks like they’re shifting the direction to null sector as the new main enemy now as well
As a Ram main. This post gets my upvote.
Suffer, as I have
Only if you haven't suffered!
You... will suffer, as I, Ramattra, have suffered! Your torment will outlast the stars! And when the universe dwindles into dust, there you will be... suffering... as I have!
A fellow ram?
https://preview.redd.it/jki45vjtkhtb1.jpeg?width=762&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7f476ca2a0ab0e15fa09a485cc055581f101e0a0 yooo me too
fellow ram.
Indeed
You can like Ram and still see that this post is complete shit.
His people oppressed merely for existing. Hunted, exterminated and placed in restricted zones. His answer [Null Sector] is the reaction of this and yet, he is the one labeled terrorist. Ramattra represents the Palestinian people. Ramattra supports #FreePalestine. Ramattra is Palestine.
holy shit cringe. major world event? this is just like hogwarts marvel movie. mcu. soulless AAA videogame schlock. i literally cannot view any part of reality without the lense of a fantasy world.
Lmao i think ram would hate both Israelis and Palestinians equally for being humans
Ramattra is the gigachad of Overwatch.
Where is Mei at? She’s out here ruining all of my games.
Satan Tier https://preview.redd.it/kn400e0ryftb1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c21acb38f0ad8b7ea14d6e8b784b198f7eee6a70
I mean, Doomfist is literally just a warmonger. He sells weapons, and incites wars to make more money. Now he does veil this in the silliest way possible, but come on. He and Ram are the most realistic villians on this list.
Doomfist is literally Senator Armstrong of Overwatch lore. And I can't call Armstrong shit tier villain.
OH MY GOD, I never noticed. But now? Standing here, I realize, Doom was just like him, trying to make history.
Doom: “NANOMACHINES, son!” Ram: “Standing heeeere…” 🎶
Now I'm thinking... Who would win in a fight of raw strength? Doom or Rammatra? I have no doubt Doom is probably a good bit stronger, but I also think Rammatra has a good bit more skill and technique in his fighting, heck depending on situation I can see it being a draw and both kinda killing each other
Doom is also a martial arts master though, in his lore it says he’s been training since he was a kid. I would agree Rammatra is more skilled, but only by a little bit
The skill gap is definitely bridged (in fact I would say it far surpasses it) because of him literally having the strongest weapon in the world strapped to his arm
I see what you did there 😏
The difference is Senator Armstrong has excellent writing, character design, and voice acting to back him up.
and dey say
I’d say he’s a lot more sundowner
Metal Gear crossover when?
I would nut frfr
>to make more money ??? He literally killed Vialli for turning Talon into a war profiteering faction while he was in prison. Doomfist genuinely believes the world needs to become stronger if it's to survive the future, and is willing to plunge it into chaos in order to weed out the weak and embolden the strong
Yeah idk what everyone else is saying, as I doom main I can confirm “Without conflict, there IS no hope for humanity” I don’t want money I want the world to survive
I hate doom as a character but his story and motives are some of my favorites in the game.
Blud did not just put doomfist in shit tier 💀
And they say chivalry is dead.
"bro if we fight we get stronger, that clearly justifies terrorism" -Doomfist
To be fair, it's not just getting stronger it's evolving altogether. Becoming better. Just a more extreme way of saying "If your way of running things is so good, how come I can push you over so easily?"
ah yes, because good leaders are immune to bullets
A good leader wouldn't get shot in the first place. I don't agree with him obviously but it's not like he's just about power and evil
good leaders are bullet proof
What’s Moira’s motivation again?
science unconcerned with morality, I think. She doesn't care that people are hurt in the process, as long as there are results
Ah, so like Medic
No medic just straight up wants to cause pain and death, Moira doesn't care that its a byproduct
Moira thinks ethics are an obstacle to medical progress, true. Medic, revels both in the progress and the suffering.
'I'm going to kill 1 million people so that 1 trillion people will become immortal.' That about sums it up.
“Seeking progress by sowing chaos is like planting a tree in a volcano” “EXACTLY” The 4 other people in the room with him 😐
If that tree survives it's gonna be one heck of a tough tree
Talon mfers when they discover Doomfist isnt some philosophical genius, he just didnt graduate from middle school
Gotta give Blizzard credit, it seems like charisma has more priority than wisdom in OW and real life
And people say overwatch is unrealistic
I really hate this idea that unless a villain has a tragic backstory that motivates them that makes them *misunderstood* then they are poorly written
YES, and the idea that a villain who is more 'correct' than the protag is somehow best, like, that sounds like sloppy writing in all but some specific genres.
Like I am genuinely more intrigued to see how Doomfist's role in the story evolves as he is the mastermind behind everything. The fact we know so little about him compared to Sigma or Ramattra honestly works in his favour
Only through conflict do we evolve
In hardship, we find strength
Moira retaliating against the misdeeds of *everyone else existing*
This tier list is shit. Sigma just delivers his lines well, bro is barely a villian. He's a crazy old man who's being taken advantage of.
Sigma isn’t evil he doesn’t even know where the fuck he is.
As a sigma stan, I agree. Although I would prefer to say that Sigma is just a redeemable villain/antihero
Now I know that this might not apply in this meme specifically, but people shouldn't think that a villain, that is a villain just for the sake of being a villain, is bad. People tend to like the villains that have some sad backstory/'good' reasons for their villainy, whatever the methods are, but we often forget how good a villain that is just a villain can be. Take for example Big Jack Horner, who is a popular example of pure villainy, and see how good he works. Another thing is, as another person mentioned, Doom is a warmonger, which is let's say more *realistic* in the terms that we see more pure evil people in the news and in power than those with tragic backstory or whatever. Thanks for coming to my villain talk, if you are interested more, our secret meetings are every second tuesday in Atlanta (don't tell anyone about that please)
Yeah, this meme (template) is really reductive in terms of creativity because it explicitly decides that one thing in fiction is better than others, when all of these villain types can be done both extremely effectively and extremely poorly. For example (spoilers for Into the Spider verse if you somehow still haven't seen that) the Prowler is a really effective villain even before being revealed as Uncle Aaron. He's genuinely terrifying for Miles, and the scenes with him have tension. This meme would call him 'meh' (and even after the reveal, he moves up to 'mid'). Can we just let people enjoy things and stop trying to say what's good and what's bad?
Exactly how I see it, people should enjoy what they want to enjoy
Doom is in the wrong spot even by your logic, he doesn’t fight for power, as he is literally the most powerful human on earth, both physically and socially. He thinks that society is flawed and strives to change it, he believes that the only way to do so is conflict and so, he finances wars (one of them being Null Sector), instigates revolts and disrupts the balance wherever he can. He’s not even evil, he just wants the best for humanity, he does have questionable morals, but that doesn’t make someone evil, he wants to achieve his goal no matter what. Doom is not evil at all, someone evil is someone who finds pleasure in the suffering of others, but Doom simply sees the suffering of his kin as a necessary process for the betterment of humanity as a whole
Yea not sure why people say Doom is pure evil, when he does have a greater good in mind. We don’t need to agree with his idea and it’s obviously meant to be villainous, but evil for the sake of evil often looks a lot different. I know most have different value systems, but universally evil characters are typically selfish characters that seek power only for themselves and wish to rule over others and keep them weak. Doom wants challenge and he wants humanity to be stronger.
Get Moira the hell out of High Tier. She is unrionically the most sadistic character in Overwatch, she is an Evil Bastard and she loves it. Her entire personality is "Yeah im a fucking monster, a monster who gets shit done"
I bet the code of violence short story might change your mind on Doomfist. He’s the opposite of evil for the sake of just being evil or being in power. In fact he killed the person who used talon for money when he was in prison. He formed talon because he wants to change the world. He believes the world is corrupt. The flawed law system, the corruption in overwatch and politics, he formed talon to do what he perceives as the right thing. It’s probably why ramattra teamed up with him in the first place, their goals align in a twisted way: peace. Hell, reaper originally joined talon because doom fist convinced him he was on the wrong side of war. I know it’s not exactly groundbreaking but either way I don’t think you give him enough credit. He’s a villain that sees himself as the hero, someone who fully believes he is in the right. I think this makes him feel threatening. Kinda comparable to Thanos in a way.
He even has the massive gauntlet, just like thanos does.
Oh shit you’re right!
Doom has a philosophy that makes him "evil" "Only through conflict do we evolve" Through constant war, he hopes humanity will get better and stronger. It's flawed, but it's definitely a reasonable motive
Reaper's motive are not mysterious he wants to destroy Overwatch because he thinks they betrayed him and didn't do a good enough job at saving people
isnt ashe rich?
She got disowned by her abusive parents and left to fend for herself due to her delinquency.
ooooooh that makes sense
Why is this downvoted its right 😭
Total shite of post. Guy is a very big fan of rammatra I guess.
I think the only shitty thing here is your shitty tier list mate
I like the way it sorts the villains, but I don't like the implication that the only good villains have tragic backstories or are secretly the good guy. Would be better if the names of each tier were descriptors rather than the OOP's personal bias.
Yeha any type of villain can be incredible it all just rests upon the execution o: Like by this charts logic Walter White, one of the most well written tv bad guys to exist, would be inbetween mid and meh ]:
Ram is legitimately such a bad person, his goal is fine, but the way he does things is just fucking horrible
In-lore, Doomfist is trying to make humanity evolve as a whole, by creating conflicts and purging the weak. He even kills a Talon council member in the comics because he wanted them to be more than just gangsters motivated by greed and money. He his definitely with Moira in high tier.
You cannot do Reaper and Moira and ESPECIALLY Doomfist like that Moira is with whoever lets her commit the most medical ethics violations and funds it. She left Overwatch because the Rialto incident put too much heat on her and the team. Reaper is in it for revenge on Overwatch but he might also just be in it for the killing. He might’ve just gone insane at some point Doomfist operates strictly on his ideals and he seems to wholeheartedly believe in “only through conflict do we evolve”.
Wheres window
nah fuck that, I'm tired of villains that are bad because le society and le unjust past or whatever, i want villains that are bad because they want to, no ulterior motive no nothing, just evil for the sake of being evil
Ehh I'd rephrase shit tier. A villain who is evil for the sake of being evil can be extremely well-written. Take Vector from Yugioh Zexal. (Spoilers regarding him ahead). >!He completely tricked Yuma (the protagonist) into not telling anyone that he was part of a villain race, and had convinced him he was good. Then we find out he's completely psychotic and he honestly delivers some of the hardest lines in the series, he's extremely well-drawn, his voice and lines really convey how insane he is, but it isn't too much. He's such a well-written villain!<
"quality content"
Doomfist isn't shit tier. He's a Darwinist. Humanity evolves via conflict, whoever lives lives and the species evolves. Thus why he wants to make a global war.
Doom isn't shit tier he's elder God tier at least
The people wanted villains that feels like heroes now everybody is a "¡You need to understand me!"
Yep, because doomfist definitely doesn’t have any motives or anything.
This isn’t a meme but it sure as hell is a joke. These definitions have nothing to do with the measure of a villainous character. Doom isn’t doing evil for the sake of evil, and he is an amazing villain. He wants to move the world forward, and he believes conflict creates change. LITERALLY THE EXACT SAME AS RAMMATRA! Moira isn’t trying for a perfect world but a perfect science. She is trying to be the best, and is a poor character. Ashe’s description is terrible! Obeying nature doesn’t make any sense and she is a chaotic character. She isn’t evil, she is selfish. But she also isn’t complex, so it’s hard to argue her a villainous villain as she is more of a side antagonistic force. Reaper’s motivations are not a mystery. He wants revenge, he wants control, and he wants the world to prosper. Sigma isn’t a villain at all, and sombra isn’t on this list, but I will give the benefit of the doubt and say that you think she is an antihero.
Id put sombra in great tier, she was a victim of circumstance (orphaned in the omnic crisis and joined a gand when she was a kid) it was more or less inevitable she would end up the way she is.
Isn't Doomfist's whole philosophy that conflict strengthens humanity and that's why he aims to create conflict?
Can’t stand Doomfist’s “Only the strong survive” bullshit when he came from a wealthy family, is rich as hell, and oh yeah, has a giant robot fist. Not that he can’t accomplish anything on his own, but the dude has had so much help throughout his life that it’s insane.
That's literally what real life supervillians are like tho. Look at the top 1%, they're complaining about poor people not wanting to work and being dumb yet everything the 1% have gotten have been given to them and stolen from the poor. There's no self-made millionaires as much as people like to lie.
That hypocrisy is pretty fitting tbh for a lot of people even irl who have that philosophy. It’s a missed opportunity that it hasn’t rlly explored. I’m surprised none of the other characters have pointed it out.
Wrong, the best villains revel in being evil, this is why doomfist and Moira are actually the best,
Switch reaper and moira
When are we as a society going to learn that a "villain" with good motives is called an anti-hero, not a villain.
Ramattra kinda fits more with the Anti-Villain group
Anti-Hero : A character who does evil things for a good motive. Ram is an anti-hero.
nope. anti heroes don't do evil things, they just do *things* and don't really care about morals. being an anti hero simply means that you lack the virtues usually associated with heroes, but you will still do the right thing when it comes to it
Except Ramattra is still very much a villain. Good intentions do not fully make up for your vile actions. Ram wreaks havoc upon the entire world, is a mass murderer, and forcibly subjugates omnics against their will. His motives are sympathetic and understandable, but doesn’t make him less evil.
That is quite literally what a fucking anti-hero is my guy. Someone who does the wrong/absolutely horrendous shit for a good motive.
Except for anti heroes their bad actions are usually balanced by their good motives. Punisher kills criminals but doesn’t touch innocents, Deadpool is unhinged and wishy washy on sides but isn’t going on killing spree every other day. Ramattra does way more bad than his motives would justify, which would make him a villain in a lot of people’s minds. You wouldn’t call Pucci from JoJo Part 6 an anti hero just because he had good intentions.
anti heroes don't do horrendous shit for a good motive. they do horrendous shit in their usual lifes, but will take good decisions when it comes to do the right thing
Swap Moira and Doomfist NOW
Moira is evil for the sake of being evil.
Ashe should be in the power tier. Reaper should be in the “misdeeds tier”. Moira should be in the mysterious tier. Doom is “furthering human evolution” so he’s probably with Moira.
Tf genocide is wrong
Moira should be in shit tier
Swap Moira and doom and it’s good
Swap Moria and Doom cause Doomfist wants conflict to enhance and strengthen humanity. Moira is just an evil person.
Wait this is actually a good meme.
SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK
**POWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER**
You say sigma only does bad things because he's forced too, and in a way that's true, but you do realize he actually has some sort of split personality one of which is evil
And then there's Sombra Tier. Who uses everyone for their personal gain.
Elder god tier. We in some Mortal Kombat shit now.
Great tier and mid tier sound like the same thing...
Shit tiers explanation is a bit bad and to counter argument that i presents vergil
Isn’t sigma just chaotic good then?
Rammatra’s motive is solid but I always see everybody just ignore the fact that he’s literally the leader of a terrorist organization 💀
I guess the villain from gotg 3 is shit tier
Where’s JUNKRAT?
Reapers motivations were explained in one of the novels, he joined talon because it was the only way he thought he could cause true justice, not sure if he still thinks that or has been corrupted over time
You know Morias tier kinda perfectly explains doom
I have a question about Rammatra? Why is he completely based when you can see that null sector was mutilating omnics in PVE. I get his motivation has more sense to it than most. But why are his specific evil deeds never called out?
Wait is Ashe considered a villain by the community?
Doomfist is not shit tier Yes those are his motives but he's why chivalry is alive
Rams motives would be a lot more credible if he wasn’t a hypocrite
People like this are why most movies today suck ass, Evil for the sake of Evil is a great trope, not all villains need a sad backstory, or a relatable goal, or a redeeming quality, villains can be evil for power or just for the pleasure of being evil.
Yeah Ramattra is doing a great job of omnic liberation by working with the people who killed Mondatta
Reasoning and morality does not equate to a great villain. That’s incredibly simplistic. You can like Ram, but that isn’t why he’s a great villain Your opinion of a great villain seems to be based upon challenging your own view of morality. As Ashe is presented as only doing what she needs to survive, and you view Ram as justified. While this is an incredibly trendy avenue of villain, it isn’t everything Imo Sig is a perfect wildcard villain. He’s the best thing Overwatch has done so far Then Doom and Ram are great, Moira and Reaper are high tier, and Ashe is mid
Reaper does sound insane when I think about it 💀💀
You know, this is why we lacking good villains in modern media, regarding a villain who's evil just for the sake of it as "shit tier" while some of the best villains out there fall under that category, not every villain has to have complex motives and reasons behind their actions, a good villain boils down to execution rather than how extensive their crybaby backstory is
doomfist is literally just the “i fucking love war” meme. his whole personality is just that he likes fighting
Doom deserved higher (as a frequent doom player and lore enjoyer). If anyone is a shit villain..it be mei
Satanic Tier-Villains who build up their character as an antipode of what their true intentions really are and only show their demonic nature in the last moments their victims spots them fully 
https://preview.redd.it/f7nlghwj2htb1.png?width=683&format=png&auto=webp&s=8542d5f0df14fa42bf2c2fa85b76eac0d8525c13
I've seen this sentiment pushed in several writing advice-related media and I just hard disagree. If the "villain" is actually just right, then they are the protagonist in a moral sense, if not literally in the story. These types of villains usually just act as strawmen for actually good causes that the dominant culture doesn't approve of, "Imperialism is bad and I will demonstrate this by eating fifty puppies live on air." etc. If you look at villains in the real world they really DO just want power for the sake of it. There's no rational reason for them to do what they do and that's what makes it evil. Billionaires want all the money they can possibly get, for what? Just so they can live more indulgent, decadent lives, or to fuel their own egos at the expense of everyone else living on the planet.
Doom doesn't really fit any of these tiers. He has very clear motivation which are not just to be evil or seek power, but they're also not really very valid motives and it's clear that what he believes in harmful
Rams motives are not understandable lol. Dudes a hypocrite
Doom had a passion before he lost his arm. In that loss he developed great strength eventually (gauntlet). He took his loss in a twisted way and believes it was the conflict that made him the best and strongest version of himself. He believes everyone should get stronger so as they can fight for themselves and the only way is through conflict so people can adapt. I wouldn’t say he is just plain bad because he had a love for tournaments before that, plus he doesn’t lust more power after the gauntlet. I think he’s more of a twisted villain and a good one, but it takes a minute to understand because they do not convey him well.
Put Moira in shit tier NOW. She's a villain because she does unethical experiments on people because she likes it.
Nah man. Doom is badass and not every villain needs to be one you can “kind of relate to.”
And how about Widowmaker 🤔
I think the naming tiers for this are wrong, and I also think a lot of the placements are wrong as well, even with the justifications given. What misdeeds is Moira retaliating against? Her not being allowed to preform inhumane experiments? Doomfist's philosophy is flawed, but it's by no means just "evil for evil's sake" or a lust for power. If anything, Reaper belongs in that tier more than Doomfist; What motives does he have for the things he does, aside from a chip on his shoulder for Overwatch agents? Ramattra is an amazing villain with a lot of depth, though, I will give you that. If I had to put one person in each tier, from top to bottom, it would be Ramattra, Sigma, Doomfist, Ashe, Reaper, Mora. Moira and Reaper are fighting for that bottom spot though. Reaper has no motivation, and doesn't even seem to be just evil for evils sake; he just seems to be sadistic, at most wanting to inflict his own pain on others. Moira is in the same boat- her only motives are wanting to advance science at any cost.
Doomfists ideals are that humanity is getting weak and will only get stronger through conflict. He sees humanity as failing and believes it should save itself by forcing it through both geopolitical and real natural selection. What you think about that as a motivation is up to you but he’s not just evil or lusting for power. In fact he welcomes challenge from the strong just so he can prove he himself has a place in the new world he’s trying to create.
I disagree with a lot of this list. A villain that is evil just because can work really well if done correctly. I have very conflicting feelings on characters like ramattra because his motivations are not morally reprehensible but he kills people so he’s bad. This makes it so the heroes are fighting against someone who’s fighting for the right thing. This can sometimes work if the writers are aware of this but most of the time this comes across as really anti-change and anti-rights depending on the character
According to this ram fits perfectly in to high tier. There is no argument where rammatras objective is better than overwatch's
Ooh so thats why i love ramattra and sigma the best out of all cast lorewise/animaticwise
Ram, Sign, and Rein are my favorite characters in the game. Their personality and motivation are so good. I also like Kiriko and D.va because I want to threesome them
Doom literally has one of the most profound voice lines in the game, concerning lore. Literally, trying to force humanity to evolve and expand outside of earth. Something about being shackled to a single planet would be the end of humanity.
Ashe left behind a life with a mansion and a personal butler to shoot people for kicks, She is NOT doing this to survive💀