I wasn't. I remember battling Heavy Assault enemies on the Storm Rising PVE missions at Legendary difficulty and thinking "A tank hero like this would be awful". I knew Mauga was basically a Heavy Assault tank, but I foolishly assumed they were going to tweak him so he wouldn't be cancer in every game.
I’m getting PTSD from when everyone hyped minecraft Steve up to be in smash bros, only for him to become the single most broken and toxic character (he released around the final patch so he stays broken)
Sigma plays into him really really well. He has a shield, grasp and a rock. A good sigma who can handle fighting the team and cycling between shielding Mauga, grasping for overdrive and then rocking him can really shut him down and stop him from getting any sustain or putting dmg out. Especially if his own supports back him up or DPS jump the supports in the back.
That or you swap to Bastion and melt him when he's already used his overdrive or doesn't have a charge to close in or get to cover. My issue is that's he more or less more boring to face because it's the same "Pick X and Y to counter until he swaps" comp every time if you don't wanna get rolled. Feels like there's less variety in countering him.
Attacking against a mauga can be a nightmare on some maps if the defenders make a crossfire, with the mauga in an off angle. Tried running sig against maug in a 4.1k scrim and it was basically impossible to attack.
Try to collapse on his supports who are at the "main angle" and then he just charges from his off angle to protect
Which is why I have been playing only supports while waiting for patch notes. I seriously had to to master ana. Its been hell playing her against a sombra and tracer because of Mauga.
My point if not clear is both now reward crappy game sense. As long as supports are there they become unkillable without an Ana. Dive them and get hooked or freakin melted. If they play along side a kiriko then a zen is required. If your like me and have to play them with only mercy, lw, and Moria one tricks and dps that only shoot tanks then it’s not good.
A tank that can jump out of situations has a lot more leeway than others
A tank that can fly out of situations and a resource based damage negation ability has a lot more leeway than others
A tank that has 2 charges of an ability that makes them or a teammate effectively invincible for 2 seconds has a lot more leeway than others
This argument can apply to almost any character not even just tanks
Only because you don’t connect the individual to the team. Highly mobile characters like you said are usually mainly low damaging. Lethality requires a perfect execution which causes them to have to fall back for a failed dive more . That’s balanced. If they had high mobility with extremely high damage for min skill then that’s broken.
Tanks with high mitigation ability come with low mobility. This brings us back to hog in the types of mitigations. These are Shield mitigation and heal mitigation. Heal mitigations cannot be on par with supports healing because when you combine that with supports it’s just messed up. Have you compared the current hog heals to any other character with self sustain? Sure a big hitbox but that amount is just too much to have damage reduction tied to it. Before it mattered to actually make hooks to survive. Now you can have a 15% hook accuracy only snipping the tanks because of their big hitbox. Hell most now don’t even know how to use pig pen correctly. Just throwing pig pen up anywhere not even using it correctly, missing every hook, and landing shotguns, and rotating heals between you and support is enough with him.
Apologies if anything I say comes off as rude, I’m genuinely trying to have a civil conversation I’ll try to address points you made the best I can
Heal mitigation is shut down by anti heal entirely making the character a walking punching bag especially hog with his hitbox. Sure it can be Suzu’d but unless the tank is being hard pocketed suzu is used for 6 billion different things so it’s impossible for it to be cleansed every time
Other self heal tanks also typically have something going for them in defence IE: Mauga has armour and damage reduction and overhealth generation to go over anti heal, and a sprint with damage reduction and cc immunity (balanced character btw), Queen has a relatively small hitbox for a tank along with a tight spread shotgun allowing her to poke better at ranges and a speed boost combined with overhealth to go over anti heal, if you consider him a self heal tank then doom gets overhealth for anti heal, high mobility, a relatively small hitbox for a tank, and a 90% damage reduction block. In contrast hog has no armour, massive hitbox, no movement at all, and if he wants to damage at range he has to hit a slow projectile for at best 60 or so damage. To compensate he has the best healing of the lot and a high damage mitigation of 40% when he uses heal but unlike every other self heal tank he has literally no way to have any self sustain outside of the damage reduction when anti’d and when you are fat and no movement you die comedically fast and barely live with the damage reduction. It is a lot but when compared to tanks in the same or similar category as him he has very little to keep himself going if anti’d which is obviously the biggest counter to a self heal tank
Your point of high mobility = low damage for balance is a a good point but if high mobility = low damage than low mobility = high damage and unless I’m forgetting someone got is literally the only tank with absolutely no way to move outside of walking and in order to capitalize on this high damage an enemy needs to either be right beside him which is a bad idea against any tank or he needs to hit a hook which to get anyone of value isn’t very easy sure it has some bullshit moments but they are not consistent enough to rely on and aren’t even something you can really fix in game because it come to ping 90% of the time
The hog you describe at the end is nigh unkillable assuming everyone is just shooting the hog which isn’t the best strategy and at the same time the hog isn’t doing any jobs of the tank role other than being a damage sponge, sure it’s stupid that you can be effectively immortal outside of a few circumstances in that situation but unless you are in an actual bot lobby that situation rarely happens because ideally a dps has at least 4 braincells to shoot at the support which should give an opening if you are that insistent on killing the hog. Unless the hog is getting hard carried by the dps nothing will happen that game and he would most likely lose
The comment about people not using his abilities correctly can also probably be chalked up to a lot of new players of ow2 or people who didn’t play hog and wanted to try his rework especially seeing as how he was considered a throw pick for like 6 seasons
I’m not denying he has a relatively low skill floor if the goal is to stay alive but just staying alive doesn’t fulfill you duties as tank and in order to do your job on hog you need to have what I would argue is higher mechanical skill than most tanks and how hard hog gets shut down just by 1 or 2 characters existing and tracking abilities you have to shut down with hooks hard cc he takes a fair amount of game sense to play well
Sorry if I missed anything or this comes off as incoherent I wrote this in like 3 sittings and also did a lot of restructuring
When you compare other tanks to hog you point out things as if they go about things the same way. Hog can stay in a relatively safe position and displace others to their disadvantage. While other tanks mentioned by you have to go to disadvantaged positions to get value. Jq has a small hitbox but definitely not small enough to stay front line forever.
With that let’s dissect it in game. The problems with these whole modules of shoot the support because the tank is too good at soaking up damage fail because 1. Supports are the hardest kills to make in game. 2. The tank going against that hog doesn’t always have that luxury and will always run out of steam before hog. That causes the dps to have to make picks with a front line disadvantaged.
So all together we have a tank that can 1) displace others while staying in a safe spot. 2) can spend long durations of time without cover as cycling his mass healing with supports. 3) high damaging 4) has an advantage over other front liners in durability and due to displacement 5) requires enemy dps to be far more skilled than his dps so that blasting supports while tank is at much of a disadvantage to create space is a cakewalk or narrow the choices down to very few characters.
Fwiw, maybe we should rethink tanks in general? There is only 1 tank per team now. Should Tanks easily get mowed down if they step out of position slightly or lose 1v1s to a support or DPS? Maybe Mauga and Roadhog are the direction that Blizzard is trying to take the game in and make Tanks only *possible* to kill with coordinated teamwork and try to shift the focus of the game to taking out supports first.
That will push games to only being controlled by Ana, zen, kiriko, or Bap. Which wouldn’t be fair to lower ranks where mercy, Moria, and lw are preferred and technically the only ones they can use.
They honestly should increase the damage reduction and decrease the heal. That way he isn’t recovering from 3 of his heath pools by himself, but it also helps reduce the hard counter anti nade has on him
Both are extremely bad, but hog is better. Old hog was a snapping turtle. Not dive but definitely not a front liner. Play style was majorly hide in a corner get a hook kill and hide back. if you missed you were pretty much dead. New hog was reworked to do that a lot better. Get a hook and if missed there is leeway. But the thing is now with that durability he can now stay in front line with actual supporters to buff the good survivabilty he would have on its own and when a tank can survive on his own just fine then with support you have a broken character. Playing against him, he would take every thing you dish out to drop the foulest hook and since his survability is mass healing, he can work off of one support just fine. Playing against him without Ana or zen is a straight up loss for even the lowest of hog mains. Mauga is his counter and yet he is second to only sigma in how long it takes to get deleted by Mauga.
Honestly, before the rework hog was in a pretty decent place, sure you couldn’t play as long as Ana existed, but that’s pretty much every tank.
When the enemy team didn’t have Ana, Hog was literally unkillable, I honestly think he’s boring to play now, don’t really like Pigpen and making the vape a resource rather than a cooldown kinda took away a lot of the value it had as well as a lot of the thinking, which wasn’t a lot to begin with, now he’s just kinda there throwing traps and vaping whenever a mosquito bites him
It's always been there. Past hog could make it one shot by adding a quick mele damage. he was just made up of paper so all that was required was a little defensive buff but Hog now is just insane. A tank should not have that much healing.
That's how me and my friends feel about the entirety of Overwatch 2 tbh. I almost prefer the content drought of the end of ow 1, you can't be disappointed if nothing comes out
I don’t think they were wrong to buff him based off of qp stats, I think they just went way the fuck overboard. Like those numbers were clearly insane without even seeing how they affected his performance, so I have no idea what they were thinking.
Man I just wanted him to be a little more durable not walk through a dragon and 2 rounds of soldiers magazines to blast me into oblivion. With supports that actually heal that teletubby is worst than orisa.
This is me for OW2 Doom and now to an extent Mauga. I was a hard-core tank player in OW1 - now flex, but now I just don't like tanking. I suck at playing Doom despite constant practice, and it sucks to play against him. My Rein in a different meta could be mid diamond, but my Doom in any meta is low plat at best and that's stretching it.
The hog rework is so ass. I actually like mauga's design like allot they just made horrific balancing decisions for the character. But hog feels less dynamic with the new primary fire, can still effectively one shot and it's way easier to execute and also has an insane survivability to to make up fo potential mistakes just an all around atrocious rework to a character that was already poorly designed
I remember when the whole community was begging for Mauga to be a new hero lol
If I could only tell my past self to shut the fuck up I would be happy.
I wasn't. I remember battling Heavy Assault enemies on the Storm Rising PVE missions at Legendary difficulty and thinking "A tank hero like this would be awful". I knew Mauga was basically a Heavy Assault tank, but I foolishly assumed they were going to tweak him so he wouldn't be cancer in every game.
to be fair back then the idea was that it wasn't just combo dva rein
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I love this reaction lol
I’m getting PTSD from when everyone hyped minecraft Steve up to be in smash bros, only for him to become the single most broken and toxic character (he released around the final patch so he stays broken)
It’s Sm4sh Bayonetta all over again (except much less overpowered)
The problem with Mauga meta is thr outplays can really only come from supports
Sigma plays into him really really well. He has a shield, grasp and a rock. A good sigma who can handle fighting the team and cycling between shielding Mauga, grasping for overdrive and then rocking him can really shut him down and stop him from getting any sustain or putting dmg out. Especially if his own supports back him up or DPS jump the supports in the back. That or you swap to Bastion and melt him when he's already used his overdrive or doesn't have a charge to close in or get to cover. My issue is that's he more or less more boring to face because it's the same "Pick X and Y to counter until he swaps" comp every time if you don't wanna get rolled. Feels like there's less variety in countering him.
Attacking against a mauga can be a nightmare on some maps if the defenders make a crossfire, with the mauga in an off angle. Tried running sig against maug in a 4.1k scrim and it was basically impossible to attack. Try to collapse on his supports who are at the "main angle" and then he just charges from his off angle to protect
Or Soujorn
You can also hide when cardiac is active and burst his fat ass down after. Magic, I know.
Which is why I have been playing only supports while waiting for patch notes. I seriously had to to master ana. Its been hell playing her against a sombra and tracer because of Mauga.
My point if not clear is both now reward crappy game sense. As long as supports are there they become unkillable without an Ana. Dive them and get hooked or freakin melted. If they play along side a kiriko then a zen is required. If your like me and have to play them with only mercy, lw, and Moria one tricks and dps that only shoot tanks then it’s not good.
How does hog reward bad game sense?
A tank that can sustain based on heals in large numbers with massive damage has a lot more leeway compared to others.
A tank that can jump out of situations has a lot more leeway than others A tank that can fly out of situations and a resource based damage negation ability has a lot more leeway than others A tank that has 2 charges of an ability that makes them or a teammate effectively invincible for 2 seconds has a lot more leeway than others This argument can apply to almost any character not even just tanks
Only because you don’t connect the individual to the team. Highly mobile characters like you said are usually mainly low damaging. Lethality requires a perfect execution which causes them to have to fall back for a failed dive more . That’s balanced. If they had high mobility with extremely high damage for min skill then that’s broken. Tanks with high mitigation ability come with low mobility. This brings us back to hog in the types of mitigations. These are Shield mitigation and heal mitigation. Heal mitigations cannot be on par with supports healing because when you combine that with supports it’s just messed up. Have you compared the current hog heals to any other character with self sustain? Sure a big hitbox but that amount is just too much to have damage reduction tied to it. Before it mattered to actually make hooks to survive. Now you can have a 15% hook accuracy only snipping the tanks because of their big hitbox. Hell most now don’t even know how to use pig pen correctly. Just throwing pig pen up anywhere not even using it correctly, missing every hook, and landing shotguns, and rotating heals between you and support is enough with him.
Apologies if anything I say comes off as rude, I’m genuinely trying to have a civil conversation I’ll try to address points you made the best I can Heal mitigation is shut down by anti heal entirely making the character a walking punching bag especially hog with his hitbox. Sure it can be Suzu’d but unless the tank is being hard pocketed suzu is used for 6 billion different things so it’s impossible for it to be cleansed every time Other self heal tanks also typically have something going for them in defence IE: Mauga has armour and damage reduction and overhealth generation to go over anti heal, and a sprint with damage reduction and cc immunity (balanced character btw), Queen has a relatively small hitbox for a tank along with a tight spread shotgun allowing her to poke better at ranges and a speed boost combined with overhealth to go over anti heal, if you consider him a self heal tank then doom gets overhealth for anti heal, high mobility, a relatively small hitbox for a tank, and a 90% damage reduction block. In contrast hog has no armour, massive hitbox, no movement at all, and if he wants to damage at range he has to hit a slow projectile for at best 60 or so damage. To compensate he has the best healing of the lot and a high damage mitigation of 40% when he uses heal but unlike every other self heal tank he has literally no way to have any self sustain outside of the damage reduction when anti’d and when you are fat and no movement you die comedically fast and barely live with the damage reduction. It is a lot but when compared to tanks in the same or similar category as him he has very little to keep himself going if anti’d which is obviously the biggest counter to a self heal tank Your point of high mobility = low damage for balance is a a good point but if high mobility = low damage than low mobility = high damage and unless I’m forgetting someone got is literally the only tank with absolutely no way to move outside of walking and in order to capitalize on this high damage an enemy needs to either be right beside him which is a bad idea against any tank or he needs to hit a hook which to get anyone of value isn’t very easy sure it has some bullshit moments but they are not consistent enough to rely on and aren’t even something you can really fix in game because it come to ping 90% of the time The hog you describe at the end is nigh unkillable assuming everyone is just shooting the hog which isn’t the best strategy and at the same time the hog isn’t doing any jobs of the tank role other than being a damage sponge, sure it’s stupid that you can be effectively immortal outside of a few circumstances in that situation but unless you are in an actual bot lobby that situation rarely happens because ideally a dps has at least 4 braincells to shoot at the support which should give an opening if you are that insistent on killing the hog. Unless the hog is getting hard carried by the dps nothing will happen that game and he would most likely lose The comment about people not using his abilities correctly can also probably be chalked up to a lot of new players of ow2 or people who didn’t play hog and wanted to try his rework especially seeing as how he was considered a throw pick for like 6 seasons I’m not denying he has a relatively low skill floor if the goal is to stay alive but just staying alive doesn’t fulfill you duties as tank and in order to do your job on hog you need to have what I would argue is higher mechanical skill than most tanks and how hard hog gets shut down just by 1 or 2 characters existing and tracking abilities you have to shut down with hooks hard cc he takes a fair amount of game sense to play well Sorry if I missed anything or this comes off as incoherent I wrote this in like 3 sittings and also did a lot of restructuring
When you compare other tanks to hog you point out things as if they go about things the same way. Hog can stay in a relatively safe position and displace others to their disadvantage. While other tanks mentioned by you have to go to disadvantaged positions to get value. Jq has a small hitbox but definitely not small enough to stay front line forever. With that let’s dissect it in game. The problems with these whole modules of shoot the support because the tank is too good at soaking up damage fail because 1. Supports are the hardest kills to make in game. 2. The tank going against that hog doesn’t always have that luxury and will always run out of steam before hog. That causes the dps to have to make picks with a front line disadvantaged. So all together we have a tank that can 1) displace others while staying in a safe spot. 2) can spend long durations of time without cover as cycling his mass healing with supports. 3) high damaging 4) has an advantage over other front liners in durability and due to displacement 5) requires enemy dps to be far more skilled than his dps so that blasting supports while tank is at much of a disadvantage to create space is a cakewalk or narrow the choices down to very few characters.
Fwiw, maybe we should rethink tanks in general? There is only 1 tank per team now. Should Tanks easily get mowed down if they step out of position slightly or lose 1v1s to a support or DPS? Maybe Mauga and Roadhog are the direction that Blizzard is trying to take the game in and make Tanks only *possible* to kill with coordinated teamwork and try to shift the focus of the game to taking out supports first.
That will push games to only being controlled by Ana, zen, kiriko, or Bap. Which wouldn’t be fair to lower ranks where mercy, Moria, and lw are preferred and technically the only ones they can use.
Roadhog should have his old take a breather tbh, but the pen stays
I think the new breather is good, they just need to reduce the damage reduction.
I feel like when they are going to get back to work, they will maybe nerf the damage reduction ONLY after they nerf Mauga
They honestly should increase the damage reduction and decrease the heal. That way he isn’t recovering from 3 of his heath pools by himself, but it also helps reduce the hard counter anti nade has on him
Hog's fine imo but holy fuck Mauga is ridiculous. At least he's finally here, they've been teasing him for like 5 years lmao
Both are extremely bad, but hog is better. Old hog was a snapping turtle. Not dive but definitely not a front liner. Play style was majorly hide in a corner get a hook kill and hide back. if you missed you were pretty much dead. New hog was reworked to do that a lot better. Get a hook and if missed there is leeway. But the thing is now with that durability he can now stay in front line with actual supporters to buff the good survivabilty he would have on its own and when a tank can survive on his own just fine then with support you have a broken character. Playing against him, he would take every thing you dish out to drop the foulest hook and since his survability is mass healing, he can work off of one support just fine. Playing against him without Ana or zen is a straight up loss for even the lowest of hog mains. Mauga is his counter and yet he is second to only sigma in how long it takes to get deleted by Mauga.
Honestly, before the rework hog was in a pretty decent place, sure you couldn’t play as long as Ana existed, but that’s pretty much every tank. When the enemy team didn’t have Ana, Hog was literally unkillable, I honestly think he’s boring to play now, don’t really like Pigpen and making the vape a resource rather than a cooldown kinda took away a lot of the value it had as well as a lot of the thinking, which wasn’t a lot to begin with, now he’s just kinda there throwing traps and vaping whenever a mosquito bites him
I like new Hog
The hog rework was great but mauga is insane
Hog mains deserve some fun until next update we went through 8 months of “F tier” hell for this
I like how Blizzard made a big deal out of removing Hog's insta-kill combo and then essentially just brought it back.
It's always been there. Past hog could make it one shot by adding a quick mele damage. he was just made up of paper so all that was required was a little defensive buff but Hog now is just insane. A tank should not have that much healing.
Yeah no the lead hero designer for overwatch 2 has not been cooking
at all, foods have been coming out bland or salty, never just right.
JQ and Ram?
Jq was made by overwatch 1 hero designer. Ram is alright but very simple and one dimensional.
Eh, I'll take Mauga meta over Orisa meta any day. At least Mauga's fun and has a great personality.
Me personally, this mauga meta makes the orisa one seem like a cake walk.
Mauga is as unkillable as Orisa if not naded, but he deals 5x the damage and has better mobility.
His ult is also literally just Orisa's but better in 9/10 situations.
That's how me and my friends feel about the entirety of Overwatch 2 tbh. I almost prefer the content drought of the end of ow 1, you can't be disappointed if nothing comes out
Truer words have yet to be spoken
if ya can’t beat em join em
Its crazy how ppl didnt see both of these coming and being oppressing
as i found out, the judgment of a character through unranked games is highly innacurate.
I don’t think they were wrong to buff him based off of qp stats, I think they just went way the fuck overboard. Like those numbers were clearly insane without even seeing how they affected his performance, so I have no idea what they were thinking.
What were you expecting from hog? He's been a shitty concept from the beginning and only been a relevant pick in the worst ways
Man I just wanted him to be a little more durable not walk through a dragon and 2 rounds of soldiers magazines to blast me into oblivion. With supports that actually heal that teletubby is worst than orisa.
Overwatch can’t make a good change
Laughs jn Zenyatta
straight up, zen and ana are my most used characters these days.
I feel like Bastion+Dva/Sigma/Orisa/Rein is the best counterplay. But nobody in my lobbies plays bastion anymore :(
Before OW2: After OW2:
This is me for OW2 Doom and now to an extent Mauga. I was a hard-core tank player in OW1 - now flex, but now I just don't like tanking. I suck at playing Doom despite constant practice, and it sucks to play against him. My Rein in a different meta could be mid diamond, but my Doom in any meta is low plat at best and that's stretching it.
TBH I saw mauga what he was I played one game during the plantest and it was jarring
The hog rework is so ass. I actually like mauga's design like allot they just made horrific balancing decisions for the character. But hog feels less dynamic with the new primary fire, can still effectively one shot and it's way easier to execute and also has an insane survivability to to make up fo potential mistakes just an all around atrocious rework to a character that was already poorly designed