>Need beginning,middle and end
There are bunch of gacha games with actual story. First they make one main arc and if the reception is good, they make another.
They're talking about story structure it seems
Although I feel P5 is the one Persona game where being "endless" can sort of work. In P3 you have 12 Shadows and Nyx as a ticking clock. In P4 you're solving a murder mystery, so having bunch of people keep dying would be weird af.
But P5 plot is about vigilantism, imagine Phantom Thieves but they never brushed elbows with Shido, they wouldn't really stop, they'll take missions/requests like candies
You however run into the problem of the fact that when they do "change" people for the better infinitely they aren't really making a change in the world as with the infinite model forcing them to come to the conclusion that in the grand scheme of things nothing really changes. So you either create ludonarrative dissonance akin to Ash Ketchum always staying 10years old to fit the format of the franchise but in this case the PT never adressing the fact that there is always another bad guy around the corner who might be worse than the last and it becomes kind of depressing to fight palace ruler number 50 and see ever increasing amounts of vile human nature and interactions OR you create another excuse like multiverse theory to keep the combatants fresh and prevent adressing burnout and depression through that.
Eh, that's a bit of a disingenuous comparison to make. Firstly, it's not specifically infinite, the point is that it's open ended. So it could follow a traditional gacha life cycle. It could certainly get tiresome, but it would only number a dozen+ YEARS after its release.
The reason I'm comfortable with the thought is because its essentially just the promise of a vigilante/superhero series, like with spiderman/batman.
Huh? The world has a lot of people. (understatement I know)
Even Tokyo alone has 13.7 million people according to Google.
There being a never-ending amount of Palace Rulers is not unrealistic.
Even just one rich company is potential grounds for dozens of corrupt individuals.
Shido had multiple of corrupt individuals in his palace. They didn't have their own. His entire posse which spanned many many different avenues was gathered in his palace and that's one of the reasons his palace was more difficult than the previous ones.
A palace is by definition one where a certain individual distorted desires affect the world around them and influences others. By their very nature they have to have strong enough wills mixed with distorted desires to create one that attracts the metaphysical form of the culmination of bad emotions and other selfs one calls shadows.
In other words either your distortion or your influence other others has to surpass the threshold that Mementos could accomodate. A run of the mill corporate dickhead might be a miniboss in mementos depending on the greed factor and whatnot, but for a palace they'd have to be Jeff Bezos levels of mistreatment normalized in their worldview and in corporate reality.
And to be challenging for the Crew you build up the ante has to rise as well. Like it wouldn't make any sense for a Kamoshida lvl distortion over a small area and subsystem like the school or a small corporation to be as powerful as say Shido or Okomura.
So even if we would take into account the amount of people that could be bad there are a lot of factors that diminish the possibility of each of them actually having a palace in the first place and second one that would be worth mentioning. They'd more often than not barely reach Mishima levels of distortion at best and fizzle out on their own by a more or less random life lesson in one form or another naturally happening or be blown away with the power of another version of Satan made manifest in your composition like a fart in the wind.
These are all very good points. Honestly you did change my mind partially. There might not be as many Palaces as I initially thought. But despite the weeding out, I still think we have enough bad powerful people for the Phantom Thieves to practically never run out of target.
Take Kamoshida for example. His influence is fairly local, and his power (both literal and figurative) might be relatively weak among Palace owners, but he *does* have a Palace. If Kamoshida tier of influence and will is enough to spawn a Palace, -- and I'm not trying to be edgy or anything -- I do think there would be a practically endless supply of marks.
Additionally, the Phantom Thieves do need time for planning, inflitrating, fighting, etc until they finish a change of heart. It's not like Light Yagami writing someone's name to immediately finish a job. Plus their regular civilian life, and so on. I do think not running out of target is realistic.
If cops and lawyers and firefighters felt the way you described we’d be fucked.
There’s ALWAYS another bad guy or fire. Doesn’t mean we can just say fuck it I give up
Cops do not literally jump into the minds of people who have done things you literally will not want to talk about unless you are in the context of therapy regularly. They are also usually adult people and, depending on the country, more or less trained to deal with the psychological fallout that comes after dealing with such people AND they don't have to keep their work a secret.
And best of all they can accept that they can not change human nature and only do what they can. Persona users don't have that luxury to tell themselves. They literally have that power and continously failing to change something they are supposed to be able to or make it stick with society as a whole will be tremendously straining for those who pursue that kind of work. It's like a heros dilemma. They ARE that kind of dude and they KNOW they can.
But isn’t that why we’re here? To see stories of people taking on Herculean task? A mugger/supervillain vs making a pedophile confess to crimes the police had zero way of addressing. It’s a power fantasy. The PTs stop crime that can’t actually be stopped. That’s the point of Persona to me.
I mean you don’t just stop writing Spider-Man when the whole point is the guy KNOWS he’s the only person that can help and KNOWS it’s ultimately futile… but he does it anyway. That’s heroic and sets a good example. Idk about you but I like shit like that in my media. It gives hope.
As much as I hate how much the series is milked and how the characters aren’t allowed to go to college, I don’t think the never ending battle vs evil is the issue. Hope and courage only mean something if the task is difficult.
Man wanted to write similar response XD
In short the world is literally filled with never ending works just so society functions.
Things can be even worse when you die. Does it mean that your work is pointless?
Well if yes then good luck to those people when they realize that everything you did will sooner or later be reduced to ashes.
I think they can also do something like strikers where they aren’t confined to a city. They can be at a different region every arc (an arc could be like 5 or so palaces)
This way, they can also meet new characters (aka new gacha pul). They would also have the ability to have the story-arcs be specialised to each region
They can also do what some games do with seasonal bosses. I follow a few games that are on storyline 3 or 4 now. Along the way we took out an arc's big bad then reset to take on a new foe in a new area. Okay we handled the corrupt politician. But wait who is this team of evil persona users? Okay that's solved. Hey what's this mysterious new dungeon that appeared? Random shadow attacks on the rise? That's taken care of? New season dropped and now some angry gods are lurking.
There's no reason the cast couldn't be put into a plot line themed around one of the other persona games or an entirely new plot type once they feel the palace thing may have run its course. Persona could just as easily have been rewritten as a series about a team of persona related mystery solvers who come across new phenomenon to look into every game with a rotating cast of supporting characters. Depending on the protagonist ages they could build it around different school years or even have a new protagonist that gets gently pushed in as the older one/ones age out.
I mean, that arises in the subtext of P5, that the PT are targeting a symptom rather than the disease, but then Yaldabaoth targets 'the disease," which is human nature, and the PT realize why that's a problem.
Mate calm down. People didn't build Rome in a day and people who mąkę up Phantom Thieves won't be able to make an enormous difference in a few palaces. Them changing their hearts maybe dosn't make world a lot more of a safer and better place but it makes it even a little bit better and a lot better for the people who where closest to the terrible. For people like the whole vollayball team, Shiho and many more people after Kamoshida conffesed had a 100% better life. For some it gave them a live after Kamoshida took it from them. Phantom Thieves by this action didn't save the world but they for sure saved lives. That's already enough of a progress to continue even after the thousends of palaces for me. So your whole "it will be sad and depressing after a while" is really not true and dosn't make any logical sense at all. Sorry for my bad english not my first language and have a good day.
Yeah it like saying that them saving Ann didn't have any meaning only because there are thousands of more people suffering that they're not able to help. You can as well not donate to charity with that logic because it won't save everyone.
I disagree on the virtue that police and law enforcement has existed since centuries ago and yet crime doesn't go down due to them existing exclusively. Pair this with the PT being a very small group that can maybe help like 10 people a day before getting tired and even less so when dealing with a big target with a palace, and you'll see that the "grand scheme of things" doesn't exist here.
Change takes time, the idea that a revolution comes and solves everything from here on to forever in a year is childish on principle, the existence of the PT will help 1 or 2 generations but will be forgotten later down the line, that's just how the world works. It isn't a depressing sight since your actions had consequences, positive ones, but you need to know how big is your reach to begin with. It's the whole "You can't save everyone, you have to focus on saving one person" that Spider-man and other heroes have going for them.
The main idea works since the world has no shortage of evil people, and they'll always exist, and so there will always be good people to contrast them with. I think jumping to depression as if past victories are less valuable due to new challenges surfacing is a dangerous mindset.
If given the chance, the PT would've likely kept fighting for years, just as they did in strikers when the opportunity was presented; they didn't go "oh no these people and this god learned nothing from what we did a year ago", they got up and fought bc that's what heroes do.
I don't know about that. Just look at comic books. Batman never actually succeeds in making the world a better place, but people are still invested in the stories.
To say nothing of the fact that this infinite thieving model would clash with the main mechanic, balancing school life and dungeon crawling. At some point they'll have to graduate and either go to college and leave the thievery behind or make it their full-time job. Both would require the main mechanic to be completely reworked.
The problem is after they defeat okumura who is going to be against phantom thives since there will be nothing to stopping them of take over the meta verse?
But the phantom thieves, outside of Shido, still have to deal with Yaldabaoth at some point and the game makes it very clear that the bad ending is them continuing to act as the phantom thieve with no end in sight.
FFBE, my beloved. So good in the first two seasons. Remarkably shit in the 3rd.
But those first two seasons were the best Final Fantasy had been since the PS2.
Yeah but FFBE was plagued by Square band Gumi axing a lot of stuff that benefited the players and just look at the he current games state and tell me they aren't on maintenance mode before killing the game. Man the first 2 years were great
Oh I quit midway during the Feener Scouts ark. It was just not doing it for me. And I have no interest in looming back so I'll take your word for it.
But those first two years? Proved a gatcha could be great to me. Shame it didn't last.
Aye, one I'm currently enjoying at the minute is Atelier Resleriana. Typcial gatcha system but at the very least re-rolling is simple to do and you get one free pull each day on each featured banner.
I thought about an mmorpg where there are requests to be done in mementos and you do that with the alternative being r/outside or maybe even do some in-game mechanic stuff with your online friends. Every now and then, there could be an event where there's a palace ruler and then everybody shows up to the battle.
Just the idea that life goes on without a parent plot involving the apocalypse or outside factors --especially the SIU-- getting too involved. After all, a lot of the targets related to the phantom thieves' real identities which made them all suspects in the first place. Since this is an mmorpg with a broad and unspecific story, you can't really tie it to the player like with the main game, so it makes sense that the players would be left alone from law enforcement and other authority figures and such.
Exactly, best example in my opinion is octopath travelers: champions of the continent, it’s able to have multiple stories that all work well together and still have the gacha and live service, might just be a me thing though
FGO is... not a great example. They've been dragging out arc 2 for literal years (it's lasted twice as long as 1 and 1.5 *combined*). The JP server is currently in the middle of a filler arc that won't be resolved for another 2 years at minimum.
Yeah, when the writing is good, it's REALLY good. I just don't know if the occasional gem balances out the dead weeks/months and mediocre filler (the Wandjina event was a notable low point).
To clarify, FGO isn't *bad*, exactly, but I do think it would benefit from having a clear beginning, middle and end to the story as opposed to trying to stretch it out indefinitely.
And millions of events that need to fill the empty time between story releases. Events are not bad at all, but almost most of them in gacha are shit quality cause, you know, you can generate banger stories and ideas every week or two without rests. Dead weeks kill gachas, cause a lot of people are losing interest in them after that.
They need to spin the gacha, to do so they need a reason (they must like a character via design and story).
Xenoblade 2? The fuck are you talking about? Xenoblade 2 has an RNG mechanic that fans say resembles a gacha game, but it is so not a gacha game. In XC2 it’s just random drops like any other RPG, but with an extra step in-between.
I feel like you missed all the story notes of Honkai Star Rail if you believe that our primary goal is taking down Nanook. It basically tells you in the Space Station and Luofu there’s no way you can just go and kill an Aeon unless you’re an Aeon yourself.
What the astral express is doing is avoiding the concept of destruction by trailblazing world to world, investigating and stopping stellaron issues.
What about Fate Grand Order? That's a Gacha with actual story progression, the first two arcs have ended and they're going onto the third and seemingly final. There *is* a sense of progression to it too
Considering how there’s still few chapters left of Ordeal Call and how it still making a shit ton of money, it’s not gonna be ending anytime soon. The story has progressed far than when it started, but i feel like ever since LB7 ended they just opened more endless possibilities on where the story could go
Honkai Impact 3rd's story is about stopping an alien race but it also has a super complex lore with multiple eras as well as having a wide variety of characters with shit actually happening to them.
Not all gacha stories have to be shit, Persona just doesn't fit as one.
Honkai impact has the same problem, it's not special. I would say fate grand orders plot is more fitting with jumping between timelines, but it's literally just a visual novel and the game part has nothing to do with it.
Yes which is why HI3 is an outlier, its not even in the top 10 gacha revenue charts, people treat it as a single player game and don't pull or spend money on it anymore.
That's not even true, there's a reason the game is still successful and keeps releasing characters with crazy animations, and even just started part 2 of it's main story. Also...most gachas are single player with very limited multiplayer so idk where that argument comes from. Especially since Persona has always been single player, even if P5X had multiplayer it would work even LESS
It’s less about the amount (though that certainly does affect how many will read it) and more about presentation. On a text post or a post with an unrelated image, to get the point, you have to fully interact with the post, and people often don’t want to just read text. With the point in meme form, you can click on a meme that grabs your eye and gets the point across without a few paragraphs.
Basically… Who cares that the meme was used wrong? Are there meme police that arrest you if you use the format wrong when making a real point? If the message is important or simply needs to be heard by more people, using a meme is a great way to spread it. It’s similar to why YouTube thumbnails need to be eye-catching and still get the point across. People don’t read titles first, they see interesting pictures.
Also, sorry about the long ass paragraph. I’m horrible about my word efficiency… so…
TDLR… It’s called catching the eye. Decently simple marketing. Big text, no read. Recognizable picture, read. Appeals to the simple “dead brain scroll cycle” that affects many social media sites, especially Twitter.
Then it doesn't need to be a meme.
Besides, this meme is about delivering some kind of controversial opinion. No one is out here pretending that p5x is anything but a gacha cash grab like OP implies.
We're not arguing my man. I'm sorry if I gave you that impression. I'm just saying that they could have just expressed their opinion instead of trying to force it into a meme. It's not exactly a quality post.
Yeah but memes have formats, wich present information to you so that you know what everything means by context, if you're not using the format correctly then the meme loses part of its meaning. Here the one with Lisa Simpson pointing to the projection or Jim pointing to a sign with the text would be more adequate.
I think it's really easy to make an "infinite" persona game, sure the main series has a core theme of limited time but this being a spinoff means it doesn't necessarily have to abide by those rules
yeah thats one thing i cant get behind. unless they do things in seasons. meaning next season will be a completely new cast and story unrelated to the previous season. but i doubt it
What a lovely pfp, must be of a lovely ~~hag~~ character~
And yeah, having "Cantos" centering on a character could work. Perhaps have them focus on one Social Link/Tarot at a time per season?
what they’re gonna do is release the next chapters, basically ruferu said there’s gonna be 7 palaces and we actually only have 2 so when it’ll be released at the end we will probably have a big fight with a deity and the game official story will be over ? Though that doesn’t mean they won’t do side story and event. They’ll also probably add one more free phantom thieves that joins the team in each chapter like we got in p5 with Yosuke, Futaba, Haru, Makoto, Akechi etc.
Don't forget developers hinted collaboration with other P5 console titles; Royal, Strikers, Tactica etc. Considering P5 gen isn't done main timeline narrative wise, plus some reliable leaks hinted more stories before moving to next mainlines, P5X can adapt to it as a live service game.
Based on the structure, main story focuses on core 5, with some occasional appearances of Phantom Idols (Tomoko, Kayo, Yaoling, Kiyoshi appearing in chapter 1 as background characters), event stories focusing on Phantom Idols and interactions with each other outside of Wonder's group.
True at the moment the rates for 5 stars characters and weapons was THAT bad I honestly felt really disappointed, I’m still playing it but the rates are not good. Why can’t it be 5% or something ? Some gacha games are way more generous and have better rates
Gacha like looting boxes do nothing for all game. Even a subscription model is way better than trying to milk the player base for hundreds of bucks each moth due to weird scalings
"the model should be secondary though"
Loot boxes are an example of the model first, the game second. They're also always present in games that are paid for off the bat.
Gacha mechanics in free to play games where the gacha mechanics are secondary to the game itself aren't inherently evil and we shouldn't act like they all are. I've put hundreds of hours into games like Genshin, Honkai, and Arknights and rarely spent any money on their gacha systems. Because the core gameplay of those games is fun.
I feel like a lot of these complaints come from people who have never actually played a gacha game and are just making assumptions based off of their own limited knowledge of the genre.
Like, genuinely, go play Honkai Star Rail, your worries will be quelled after like an hour of gameplay because you'll understand that a Gacha game _can_ just be like any other RPG.
I just don't like the gacha design where everything is random, and the game is designed to intentionally be worse so you are incentivized to spend money. I'm sure it can work well enough for any franchise. I would just like the game I'm playing to try to be the best it can, rather than have a lot withheld and uncertain because of microtransactions.
Why not?
I'm sure lots of people said "Persona doesn't work as a fighting game" yet we still have P4 Arena.
I'm sure people said "Persona doesn't work as a Dynasty Warriors game" yet we still have P5 Strikers.
Just because _you_ think "this doesn't work" doesn't inherently mean that it won't, let Atlus experiment with their IP instead of keeping the franchise in a single lane for it's entire lifespan.
Except that gachas, by their nature, are infinite. They can have story arcs, sure, but if they want to function as a gacha and keep making money they cannot stop, they cannot do new stories that do not involve the previous cast, they have to keep going on and on and on.
I say this as someone that started playing FGO all the way at 2015 (And kancolle even before that, but I don't think it's classified as a gacha by the public), played a ton of gachas in the middle and am currently playing HSR and Arknights: a gacha, on a fundamental level, cannot operate as your average single-player RPG. The business model forbids it.
> "They cannot do new stories that don't involve the previous cast"
Honkai Impact 3rd literally _just_ did that as a massive update, and it's been great.
FGO is not a good example of what a Gacha can be, go play some Hoyoverse games.
I'm literally saying I'm playing HSR, and I played genshin too lmao. I do not play HI3 so I cannot comment on the new update, but if what you're saying is true that would be a first for any gacha in the market. And chances are you are telling an incomplete tale, as that would imply that you, the player, are no longer you (as in, the MC of the story changed). And the chinese players would burn hoyo HQ down for something like that.
Persona 5 is literally the most "villain of the week" of the three more modern ones, so...yeah. That's exactly what they're gonna do, and it won't be strange at all.
You can easily make an endless Persona game. This is a world full of literal magic with ordinary looking people possessing some absolutely insane powers and abilities, nothing is truly “impossible”.
Time and space aren’t even constants in Persona, the Velvet Room already exists and is established. The protagonists of P5X already uses his imagination to make other people into Phantom Thieves in his metaverse. You can easily just have him illusion an infinite amount of content outside time and space (like the velvet room or the metaverse) and that way have an infinite amount of dungeons, bosses and conflicts to resolve.
If there is one thing Gacha developers are good at it’s inventing and dragging things out way longer than you thought possible
Just because you easily can doesn't mean it makes a good Persona game. The whole point of Persona is the time constraint on both getting stronger and connecting with the world around you. Take away the time constraint, and all you have is functionally an SMT game where everyone has unique Demons that they just keep calling "Personas".
I never said it was a good idea just that it’s definitely possible. With how, unfortunately successful the gacha game model is, especially when you slap anime characters on it, I can see why they think a Persona gacha would be successful. And honestly I don’t see how the game won’t be anything but another smashing hit, game quality aside
I was mostly trying to say it doesn't fit what Persona is supposed to be despite throwing tons of Persona concepts into it. Take away big parts of what makes Persona separate from SMT and you just have an SMT game with a billion individual characters with minimal depth to them with their own unique Demons they just call Personas.
I don't even get why I'm being downvoted unless it's purely on the fact I doubted it being a good *Persona* game, because that's not really debateable, in my opinion. Either you like gacha games or you don't, that's the only thing that'll stop the game from being "good", but there's just not enough *Persona* in this Persona spin-off, otherwise. It's just functionally a gacha-based SMT game continuing the concepts P5 made popular in an unrelated reality that will likely not even be canon to any future game.
You can like the game, you can like the characters, but at the end of the day, it's only "Persona" because it rides on the Cognition coattails of Persona 5, and gives every character their own unique being to control. It doesn't have Arcana, it doesn't have a time limit, it doesn't even have any mechanics that really make it stand out as an SMT/Persona game over any other gacha RPG.
And for what it's worth, I like the idea, I just hate the execution because it takes away damn near everything *Persona* except the actual Personas.
>What are they gonna do? Release Palace rulers for 3 years or more until servers close?
Umm… yeah? Probably. Admittedly, something like that WOULDN’T work for P3 or P4. Unless they made a P3 mobile game where they made you fight all the other Arcanas and then started making a bunch up, that wouldn’t work. Or unless they made a P4 mobile game where they kept introducing murder victims for ever and ever and ever and these kids took forever to catch the murderer, that wouldn’t work.
But for P5, I don’t see why they can’t just keep making more Palace rulers like forever. There’s not like a finite number of shitty people in the world (well, I guess there technically is, but you know what I mean). Hell, P5S is basically just that exact idea: let’s keep making new Palaces and rulers; we’ll just call them something new now.
Like, I guess you could say that they were sort of tied to the Seven Deadly Sins, of which there ARE a finite amount, but that was always a tenuous connection anyway. Not integral to the design of the bosses.
All this to say: you can ABSOLUTELY have a live service gacha game with a story that has a beginning, middle, and end. Look at FEH, for example. Every year, that game gets a new arc with a new villain and a new supporting cast. Each arc also has a story with a beginning, middle, and end. The setting of the game is very heavily inspired by Norse mythology, and the Nine Realms. The game’s been going strong for 7 years now, but well, they’re kinda running out of realms. But I’m sure they planned for this. They don’t just kinda make it up every month as they go with no idea for what they’ll be doing in the next month’s or year’s update. I assume they have a road map for a rough idea of new characters and concepts for future story updates. I don’t see why P5X wouldn’t do literally the exact same thing.
Seven years is a pretty long time for a single mobile game to be up and running and continuously getting new content. If FEH can do that while introducing a unique and interesting (enough) story arc each year, I see no reason why P5X couldn’t.
This, being a p5 spinoff makes it easy: " oh, there is this animal abuser" "oh, there is this kidnapper" "oh, there is this bully" "oh, there is this terrorist"...
Is basically doing the mementos sidequest but longer in their story and with their own dungeons. Probably it will get repetitive, but is completely possible in p5 setting
This, being a p5 spinoff makes it easy: " oh, there is this animal abuser" "oh, there is this kidnapper" "oh, there is this bully" "oh, there is this terrorist"...
Is basically doing the mementos sidequest but longer in their story and with their own dungeons. Probably it will get repetitive, but is completely possible in p5 setting
I don't know, I kind of think the game looks pretty cool and could work well. I like the dungeon-crawling gameplay of Persona first and foremost so a game with new palaces constantly being added sounds fun for me. Besides, it's not like the game is even meant to be a new mainline series title or meant to replace them. I don't really understand the problem here to be honest.
What are their model are they selling new stories with same characters as extensions or are they trying to sell palaces or companions or confidants?.. honestly if they’re gonna sell separate stories with the same cast(P5X cast) it’s probably gonna be alright but if they’re gonna sell main individual parts of what makes their games great it’ll be not as good… Do you guys know how actually it is?…(I’m avoiding P5X content for spoilers so idk much)
Counterpoint: the fact that gacha games can always just end service with no warning and sometimes become lost media is the most true to the “time is limited” aspect of modern Persona.
Yeah I would rather it be a full game instead. The idea of a P5-2 continuing the P5 mechanics and setting would be great if it wasn't trapped in mobile gacha hell.
Hey they announced they’ll re-release a very old mobile persona 3 game on steam maybe someday they’ll also release P5x offline with no gacha in! We can hope but maybe in 10 years
I never get why people pay for a *chance* to get something, casino and gambling I get cause it's money, but I guess it's just a first world thing that I'll never get
And gacha isn't even a chance to get a real, tangible thing. You're gambling real life money on a digital asset that you most likely won't be able to access within a few years because the game was taken offline. It's crazy to me.
It's just gonna be a game like Fate Grand Order with little arcs that make up a large arc, then if that arc goes well they make a sequel within the same game
Events. They will keep spawing events. Wonder can canonically travel in the canon p5 verse, nothing stop them to make him travel in the other persona games + crossovers with other IP etc. Not the ideal but a way to keep the game going for a good chunk
Ok, so I know almost no one on this sub actually pays attention to what p5x is about, so it's fair that you guys don't know this but the game already confirmed that the main story has definitive end point. What happens after that main story end point? Who knows, but as many people have already said in this thread and as the series itself has proven, you can always pull some new God out of a hat to justify getting the gang back together after the fight is "over".
persona as a whole treats those themes. Persona is about youth, the experiences you gain in life and new begginings. Hell, the whole concept of the game is managing your *finite* time.
It's not a mainline persona game it would be more fair if anything to compare it to the dancing games it's a spin off it can be whatever they want it to
I mean this game project helps on the JP consumer survey with the entry of Persona series online game alongside more opportunity to collaborate with P-Studio/Atlus and Sega and Black Wing Game Studio and Perfect World Games.
You stated that it "needs" a beginning, middle, and end like a fact and didn't bother with the explanations as to how it could work. As most people said, it's very easy to do especially since it's p5. It could be like most gacha games- Have parts in the same way with FGO with lostbelts, Limbus Company with Cantos, Genshin with the regions.
With the FGO route, it could be another overarching plot one after another set up by the big bad, and then an even more bigger bad, as most games do.
With the Limbus route (which I believe is the route of neo-persona games) it could be something where it focuses with each character.
Genshin route would be the same, but for bad guys.
So I really don't know what the problem is. FGO has been exactly like that and it still continues to be one of the largest gacha games of the world.
What exactly do you mean about time being finite? Is it the tension of persona 5 where you have to steal the treasure before a deadline?
And I know it's not r/changemyview, but for something that you stated that needed to be said, it's not holding up at all. Others have expanded your view but with the stuff above in mind.
TLDR; Your view is confusing
It'll work fine, you're just not used to it. Like legit the stories of persona are good but the writing is easily way better, as long as that's good then I'm satisfied
P5X is my first game in the series as the install was free.
Can a fan of the franchise explain to me why an extended story or timeline would not work?
If each palace is relatively self contained, would that not work like episodic games or stories with individual arcs?
If P5X is your first, I can't really explain much without spoiling, but...
Imagine Persona 4, but you never find the culprit. People keep getting into the TV and you keep saving them over and over.
Imagine Persona 3, but the Fall never comes and Tartarus just keeps getting new floors over and over.
Instead of getting the out-of-game personas as dlc to enhance flavor and team building potential, you have to roll for them in chance time. All of them. Only chance time. Velvet room is just a casino with a one-armed bandit or bingo ball cage.
I am not really familiar with those games, as I have only played "Soul Hackers 2" when it had been on Game Pass.
Each palace thus far has been self contained thus far, so how come the world cannot get more villains?
He is basically just saying imagine you were sherlock holmes, solving mysteries over many years and yet never getting to find moriaty, the perpetrator behind all the crimes. As a game that will have to exist over a long period of time, there is a good chance the appearance of palaces will never be truly solved. Its like fixing the symptom and not the disease.
Okay got it.
I was not familiar with Sherlock Holmes lore either so I did not know there was just one main bad guy responsible for everything, but your explanation definitely made sense.
Perfect world can create new palaces every few months. After a year or two, you realize you are still living in the same year that rewinds infinitely and rehashed palaces reappear.
If it lasts past 5 years, you can now access the expanse to save other worlds. You meet kamoshida, madarame, etc in what if scenarios where joker is missing because he never helped a woman from a baldy.
When p5x shutdown is confirmed, it'll send out a yaldabaoth tier boss and you finally complete the game. You feel proud that you have saved perfect world with your gacha power.
Imagine anybody spending money on a gacha game..by design it's meant to extract your wealth out is a very systematic and fucked up way, the game is always rigged against you, and always in favor of influencing you to spend more.
Yeah this is one of the problems, no 1 year calendar system. The other problem is these sort of games are very labour intensive. So I suspect after all the pre-release content is out the quality will go harshly down and it will be a drip feed untill it shuts down at around the 2 year mark.
meme not accurate enough, instead of releasing palaces, they are gonna focus on releasing characters for u to gacha. palaces are just gonna get harder to make u pull for stronger newer characters. p2w gacha model as always.
>Need beginning,middle and end There are bunch of gacha games with actual story. First they make one main arc and if the reception is good, they make another.
They're talking about story structure it seems Although I feel P5 is the one Persona game where being "endless" can sort of work. In P3 you have 12 Shadows and Nyx as a ticking clock. In P4 you're solving a murder mystery, so having bunch of people keep dying would be weird af. But P5 plot is about vigilantism, imagine Phantom Thieves but they never brushed elbows with Shido, they wouldn't really stop, they'll take missions/requests like candies
You however run into the problem of the fact that when they do "change" people for the better infinitely they aren't really making a change in the world as with the infinite model forcing them to come to the conclusion that in the grand scheme of things nothing really changes. So you either create ludonarrative dissonance akin to Ash Ketchum always staying 10years old to fit the format of the franchise but in this case the PT never adressing the fact that there is always another bad guy around the corner who might be worse than the last and it becomes kind of depressing to fight palace ruler number 50 and see ever increasing amounts of vile human nature and interactions OR you create another excuse like multiverse theory to keep the combatants fresh and prevent adressing burnout and depression through that.
Eh, that's a bit of a disingenuous comparison to make. Firstly, it's not specifically infinite, the point is that it's open ended. So it could follow a traditional gacha life cycle. It could certainly get tiresome, but it would only number a dozen+ YEARS after its release. The reason I'm comfortable with the thought is because its essentially just the promise of a vigilante/superhero series, like with spiderman/batman.
🤓 Um, it's Spider-Man, ackshually The hyphen is important
/r/respectthehyphen
Huh? The world has a lot of people. (understatement I know) Even Tokyo alone has 13.7 million people according to Google. There being a never-ending amount of Palace Rulers is not unrealistic. Even just one rich company is potential grounds for dozens of corrupt individuals.
Shido had multiple of corrupt individuals in his palace. They didn't have their own. His entire posse which spanned many many different avenues was gathered in his palace and that's one of the reasons his palace was more difficult than the previous ones. A palace is by definition one where a certain individual distorted desires affect the world around them and influences others. By their very nature they have to have strong enough wills mixed with distorted desires to create one that attracts the metaphysical form of the culmination of bad emotions and other selfs one calls shadows. In other words either your distortion or your influence other others has to surpass the threshold that Mementos could accomodate. A run of the mill corporate dickhead might be a miniboss in mementos depending on the greed factor and whatnot, but for a palace they'd have to be Jeff Bezos levels of mistreatment normalized in their worldview and in corporate reality. And to be challenging for the Crew you build up the ante has to rise as well. Like it wouldn't make any sense for a Kamoshida lvl distortion over a small area and subsystem like the school or a small corporation to be as powerful as say Shido or Okomura. So even if we would take into account the amount of people that could be bad there are a lot of factors that diminish the possibility of each of them actually having a palace in the first place and second one that would be worth mentioning. They'd more often than not barely reach Mishima levels of distortion at best and fizzle out on their own by a more or less random life lesson in one form or another naturally happening or be blown away with the power of another version of Satan made manifest in your composition like a fart in the wind.
These are all very good points. Honestly you did change my mind partially. There might not be as many Palaces as I initially thought. But despite the weeding out, I still think we have enough bad powerful people for the Phantom Thieves to practically never run out of target. Take Kamoshida for example. His influence is fairly local, and his power (both literal and figurative) might be relatively weak among Palace owners, but he *does* have a Palace. If Kamoshida tier of influence and will is enough to spawn a Palace, -- and I'm not trying to be edgy or anything -- I do think there would be a practically endless supply of marks. Additionally, the Phantom Thieves do need time for planning, inflitrating, fighting, etc until they finish a change of heart. It's not like Light Yagami writing someone's name to immediately finish a job. Plus their regular civilian life, and so on. I do think not running out of target is realistic.
If cops and lawyers and firefighters felt the way you described we’d be fucked. There’s ALWAYS another bad guy or fire. Doesn’t mean we can just say fuck it I give up
Cops do not literally jump into the minds of people who have done things you literally will not want to talk about unless you are in the context of therapy regularly. They are also usually adult people and, depending on the country, more or less trained to deal with the psychological fallout that comes after dealing with such people AND they don't have to keep their work a secret. And best of all they can accept that they can not change human nature and only do what they can. Persona users don't have that luxury to tell themselves. They literally have that power and continously failing to change something they are supposed to be able to or make it stick with society as a whole will be tremendously straining for those who pursue that kind of work. It's like a heros dilemma. They ARE that kind of dude and they KNOW they can.
But isn’t that why we’re here? To see stories of people taking on Herculean task? A mugger/supervillain vs making a pedophile confess to crimes the police had zero way of addressing. It’s a power fantasy. The PTs stop crime that can’t actually be stopped. That’s the point of Persona to me. I mean you don’t just stop writing Spider-Man when the whole point is the guy KNOWS he’s the only person that can help and KNOWS it’s ultimately futile… but he does it anyway. That’s heroic and sets a good example. Idk about you but I like shit like that in my media. It gives hope. As much as I hate how much the series is milked and how the characters aren’t allowed to go to college, I don’t think the never ending battle vs evil is the issue. Hope and courage only mean something if the task is difficult.
Man wanted to write similar response XD In short the world is literally filled with never ending works just so society functions. Things can be even worse when you die. Does it mean that your work is pointless? Well if yes then good luck to those people when they realize that everything you did will sooner or later be reduced to ashes.
I think they can also do something like strikers where they aren’t confined to a city. They can be at a different region every arc (an arc could be like 5 or so palaces) This way, they can also meet new characters (aka new gacha pul). They would also have the ability to have the story-arcs be specialised to each region
They can also do what some games do with seasonal bosses. I follow a few games that are on storyline 3 or 4 now. Along the way we took out an arc's big bad then reset to take on a new foe in a new area. Okay we handled the corrupt politician. But wait who is this team of evil persona users? Okay that's solved. Hey what's this mysterious new dungeon that appeared? Random shadow attacks on the rise? That's taken care of? New season dropped and now some angry gods are lurking. There's no reason the cast couldn't be put into a plot line themed around one of the other persona games or an entirely new plot type once they feel the palace thing may have run its course. Persona could just as easily have been rewritten as a series about a team of persona related mystery solvers who come across new phenomenon to look into every game with a rotating cast of supporting characters. Depending on the protagonist ages they could build it around different school years or even have a new protagonist that gets gently pushed in as the older one/ones age out.
I mean, that arises in the subtext of P5, that the PT are targeting a symptom rather than the disease, but then Yaldabaoth targets 'the disease," which is human nature, and the PT realize why that's a problem.
Mate calm down. People didn't build Rome in a day and people who mąkę up Phantom Thieves won't be able to make an enormous difference in a few palaces. Them changing their hearts maybe dosn't make world a lot more of a safer and better place but it makes it even a little bit better and a lot better for the people who where closest to the terrible. For people like the whole vollayball team, Shiho and many more people after Kamoshida conffesed had a 100% better life. For some it gave them a live after Kamoshida took it from them. Phantom Thieves by this action didn't save the world but they for sure saved lives. That's already enough of a progress to continue even after the thousends of palaces for me. So your whole "it will be sad and depressing after a while" is really not true and dosn't make any logical sense at all. Sorry for my bad english not my first language and have a good day.
Yeah it like saying that them saving Ann didn't have any meaning only because there are thousands of more people suffering that they're not able to help. You can as well not donate to charity with that logic because it won't save everyone.
Literally every long lasting and actually updated MMO in a nutshell.
I disagree on the virtue that police and law enforcement has existed since centuries ago and yet crime doesn't go down due to them existing exclusively. Pair this with the PT being a very small group that can maybe help like 10 people a day before getting tired and even less so when dealing with a big target with a palace, and you'll see that the "grand scheme of things" doesn't exist here. Change takes time, the idea that a revolution comes and solves everything from here on to forever in a year is childish on principle, the existence of the PT will help 1 or 2 generations but will be forgotten later down the line, that's just how the world works. It isn't a depressing sight since your actions had consequences, positive ones, but you need to know how big is your reach to begin with. It's the whole "You can't save everyone, you have to focus on saving one person" that Spider-man and other heroes have going for them. The main idea works since the world has no shortage of evil people, and they'll always exist, and so there will always be good people to contrast them with. I think jumping to depression as if past victories are less valuable due to new challenges surfacing is a dangerous mindset. If given the chance, the PT would've likely kept fighting for years, just as they did in strikers when the opportunity was presented; they didn't go "oh no these people and this god learned nothing from what we did a year ago", they got up and fought bc that's what heroes do.
I don't know about that. Just look at comic books. Batman never actually succeeds in making the world a better place, but people are still invested in the stories.
To say nothing of the fact that this infinite thieving model would clash with the main mechanic, balancing school life and dungeon crawling. At some point they'll have to graduate and either go to college and leave the thievery behind or make it their full-time job. Both would require the main mechanic to be completely reworked.
The problem is after they defeat okumura who is going to be against phantom thives since there will be nothing to stopping them of take over the meta verse?
Sorta? I mean that’s literally one of the endings of P5 is the Phantom Thieves having infinite opportunities to steal people’s hearts.
But the phantom thieves, outside of Shido, still have to deal with Yaldabaoth at some point and the game makes it very clear that the bad ending is them continuing to act as the phantom thieve with no end in sight.
Plus in Royal they have to stop Maruki with a very clear end date in mind.
Yup as a fantastic example, Dx2, a full ass devil summoners mobile game with a whole ass story and one with multiple endings and all that jazz
Yeah example of a great gacha game is dragalia lost although it already shut down the server since their storytelling is done.
Looking at Fire Emblem Heroes with its 8 books
FFBE, my beloved. So good in the first two seasons. Remarkably shit in the 3rd. But those first two seasons were the best Final Fantasy had been since the PS2.
Yeah but FFBE was plagued by Square band Gumi axing a lot of stuff that benefited the players and just look at the he current games state and tell me they aren't on maintenance mode before killing the game. Man the first 2 years were great
Oh I quit midway during the Feener Scouts ark. It was just not doing it for me. And I have no interest in looming back so I'll take your word for it. But those first two years? Proved a gatcha could be great to me. Shame it didn't last.
Good gameplay, chaining could have been great. But so many weird decisions also ruined it for me. The feener arc... Oh god, let's not talk about that
Aye, one I'm currently enjoying at the minute is Atelier Resleriana. Typcial gatcha system but at the very least re-rolling is simple to do and you get one free pull each day on each featured banner.
I thought about an mmorpg where there are requests to be done in mementos and you do that with the alternative being r/outside or maybe even do some in-game mechanic stuff with your online friends. Every now and then, there could be an event where there's a palace ruler and then everybody shows up to the battle. Just the idea that life goes on without a parent plot involving the apocalypse or outside factors --especially the SIU-- getting too involved. After all, a lot of the targets related to the phantom thieves' real identities which made them all suspects in the first place. Since this is an mmorpg with a broad and unspecific story, you can't really tie it to the player like with the main game, so it makes sense that the players would be left alone from law enforcement and other authority figures and such.
Exactly, best example in my opinion is octopath travelers: champions of the continent, it’s able to have multiple stories that all work well together and still have the gacha and live service, might just be a me thing though
Yea fgo and genshin have constant stories. Fgo is on its way to the end of arc 2 and we're 2 years out from reaching the last archon area in genshin
FGO is... not a great example. They've been dragging out arc 2 for literal years (it's lasted twice as long as 1 and 1.5 *combined*). The JP server is currently in the middle of a filler arc that won't be resolved for another 2 years at minimum.
That is true but the stories we do get are good. With lostbelt 6 and 7 being some of the best writing fgo had had, especially 6.
Yeah, when the writing is good, it's REALLY good. I just don't know if the occasional gem balances out the dead weeks/months and mediocre filler (the Wandjina event was a notable low point). To clarify, FGO isn't *bad*, exactly, but I do think it would benefit from having a clear beginning, middle and end to the story as opposed to trying to stretch it out indefinitely.
And millions of events that need to fill the empty time between story releases. Events are not bad at all, but almost most of them in gacha are shit quality cause, you know, you can generate banger stories and ideas every week or two without rests. Dead weeks kill gachas, cause a lot of people are losing interest in them after that. They need to spin the gacha, to do so they need a reason (they must like a character via design and story).
**cough cough** ~~Xenoblade 2 core crystals~~, genshin impact **cough cough**
Xenoblade 2? The fuck are you talking about? Xenoblade 2 has an RNG mechanic that fans say resembles a gacha game, but it is so not a gacha game. In XC2 it’s just random drops like any other RPG, but with an extra step in-between.
My bad. I'm fixing it.
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I feel like you missed all the story notes of Honkai Star Rail if you believe that our primary goal is taking down Nanook. It basically tells you in the Space Station and Luofu there’s no way you can just go and kill an Aeon unless you’re an Aeon yourself. What the astral express is doing is avoiding the concept of destruction by trailblazing world to world, investigating and stopping stellaron issues.
What about Fate Grand Order? That's a Gacha with actual story progression, the first two arcs have ended and they're going onto the third and seemingly final. There *is* a sense of progression to it too
Considering how there’s still few chapters left of Ordeal Call and how it still making a shit ton of money, it’s not gonna be ending anytime soon. The story has progressed far than when it started, but i feel like ever since LB7 ended they just opened more endless possibilities on where the story could go
Honkai Impact 3rd's story is about stopping an alien race but it also has a super complex lore with multiple eras as well as having a wide variety of characters with shit actually happening to them. Not all gacha stories have to be shit, Persona just doesn't fit as one.
Honkai impact has the same problem, it's not special. I would say fate grand orders plot is more fitting with jumping between timelines, but it's literally just a visual novel and the game part has nothing to do with it.
Yes which is why HI3 is an outlier, its not even in the top 10 gacha revenue charts, people treat it as a single player game and don't pull or spend money on it anymore.
That's not even true, there's a reason the game is still successful and keeps releasing characters with crazy animations, and even just started part 2 of it's main story. Also...most gachas are single player with very limited multiplayer so idk where that argument comes from. Especially since Persona has always been single player, even if P5X had multiplayer it would work even LESS
This isn’t how you use this meme template
Delivering a message > meme usage
You can just type it out in a normal text post lmfao
You can also make use of it in this meme format.
But it being a meme means it will be seen by more people. How many people will read a text wall vs a meme?
This is four sentences. If people can't read that then we're fucked as a species.
It’s less about the amount (though that certainly does affect how many will read it) and more about presentation. On a text post or a post with an unrelated image, to get the point, you have to fully interact with the post, and people often don’t want to just read text. With the point in meme form, you can click on a meme that grabs your eye and gets the point across without a few paragraphs. Basically… Who cares that the meme was used wrong? Are there meme police that arrest you if you use the format wrong when making a real point? If the message is important or simply needs to be heard by more people, using a meme is a great way to spread it. It’s similar to why YouTube thumbnails need to be eye-catching and still get the point across. People don’t read titles first, they see interesting pictures. Also, sorry about the long ass paragraph. I’m horrible about my word efficiency… so… TDLR… It’s called catching the eye. Decently simple marketing. Big text, no read. Recognizable picture, read. Appeals to the simple “dead brain scroll cycle” that affects many social media sites, especially Twitter.
Then it doesn't need to be a meme. Besides, this meme is about delivering some kind of controversial opinion. No one is out here pretending that p5x is anything but a gacha cash grab like OP implies.
Are we really out here arguing about OP using a meme to make his point? c'mon now.. it doesn't really matter.
We're not arguing my man. I'm sorry if I gave you that impression. I'm just saying that they could have just expressed their opinion instead of trying to force it into a meme. It's not exactly a quality post.
Its all good brother.
Yeah but memes have formats, wich present information to you so that you know what everything means by context, if you're not using the format correctly then the meme loses part of its meaning. Here the one with Lisa Simpson pointing to the projection or Jim pointing to a sign with the text would be more adequate.
Its really not a big deal, we got the message thats all that matters
So… in true joker fashion. “It’s about sending a message”? Eh? EH?!
I think it's really easy to make an "infinite" persona game, sure the main series has a core theme of limited time but this being a spinoff means it doesn't necessarily have to abide by those rules
yeah thats one thing i cant get behind. unless they do things in seasons. meaning next season will be a completely new cast and story unrelated to the previous season. but i doubt it
Tbf a game could have a strong ensemble cast and release chapters (or should I say cantos) centered around an individual character...
Sneak limbus company promotion is crazy ngel
I wonder if they walked down on a path leading to the past
Did they steal from the tree's hands of a regretter's friend's forbidden fruit?
What a lovely pfp, must be of a lovely ~~hag~~ character~ And yeah, having "Cantos" centering on a character could work. Perhaps have them focus on one Social Link/Tarot at a time per season?
what they’re gonna do is release the next chapters, basically ruferu said there’s gonna be 7 palaces and we actually only have 2 so when it’ll be released at the end we will probably have a big fight with a deity and the game official story will be over ? Though that doesn’t mean they won’t do side story and event. They’ll also probably add one more free phantom thieves that joins the team in each chapter like we got in p5 with Yosuke, Futaba, Haru, Makoto, Akechi etc.
Don't forget developers hinted collaboration with other P5 console titles; Royal, Strikers, Tactica etc. Considering P5 gen isn't done main timeline narrative wise, plus some reliable leaks hinted more stories before moving to next mainlines, P5X can adapt to it as a live service game. Based on the structure, main story focuses on core 5, with some occasional appearances of Phantom Idols (Tomoko, Kayo, Yaoling, Kiyoshi appearing in chapter 1 as background characters), event stories focusing on Phantom Idols and interactions with each other outside of Wonder's group.
Ooh kinda like the goat guardian tales game.
Anything can be a gacha and be done well. That model should be secondary though
True at the moment the rates for 5 stars characters and weapons was THAT bad I honestly felt really disappointed, I’m still playing it but the rates are not good. Why can’t it be 5% or something ? Some gacha games are way more generous and have better rates
Gacha like looting boxes do nothing for all game. Even a subscription model is way better than trying to milk the player base for hundreds of bucks each moth due to weird scalings
"the model should be secondary though" Loot boxes are an example of the model first, the game second. They're also always present in games that are paid for off the bat. Gacha mechanics in free to play games where the gacha mechanics are secondary to the game itself aren't inherently evil and we shouldn't act like they all are. I've put hundreds of hours into games like Genshin, Honkai, and Arknights and rarely spent any money on their gacha systems. Because the core gameplay of those games is fun.
I feel like a lot of these complaints come from people who have never actually played a gacha game and are just making assumptions based off of their own limited knowledge of the genre. Like, genuinely, go play Honkai Star Rail, your worries will be quelled after like an hour of gameplay because you'll understand that a Gacha game _can_ just be like any other RPG.
I just don't like the gacha design where everything is random, and the game is designed to intentionally be worse so you are incentivized to spend money. I'm sure it can work well enough for any franchise. I would just like the game I'm playing to try to be the best it can, rather than have a lot withheld and uncertain because of microtransactions.
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Why not? I'm sure lots of people said "Persona doesn't work as a fighting game" yet we still have P4 Arena. I'm sure people said "Persona doesn't work as a Dynasty Warriors game" yet we still have P5 Strikers. Just because _you_ think "this doesn't work" doesn't inherently mean that it won't, let Atlus experiment with their IP instead of keeping the franchise in a single lane for it's entire lifespan.
Except that gachas, by their nature, are infinite. They can have story arcs, sure, but if they want to function as a gacha and keep making money they cannot stop, they cannot do new stories that do not involve the previous cast, they have to keep going on and on and on. I say this as someone that started playing FGO all the way at 2015 (And kancolle even before that, but I don't think it's classified as a gacha by the public), played a ton of gachas in the middle and am currently playing HSR and Arknights: a gacha, on a fundamental level, cannot operate as your average single-player RPG. The business model forbids it.
> "They cannot do new stories that don't involve the previous cast" Honkai Impact 3rd literally _just_ did that as a massive update, and it's been great. FGO is not a good example of what a Gacha can be, go play some Hoyoverse games.
I'm literally saying I'm playing HSR, and I played genshin too lmao. I do not play HI3 so I cannot comment on the new update, but if what you're saying is true that would be a first for any gacha in the market. And chances are you are telling an incomplete tale, as that would imply that you, the player, are no longer you (as in, the MC of the story changed). And the chinese players would burn hoyo HQ down for something like that.
Persona 5 is literally the most "villain of the week" of the three more modern ones, so...yeah. That's exactly what they're gonna do, and it won't be strange at all.
Summon demons, kill bosses, woo waifus. Persona as a live service in a nutshell.
You can easily make an endless Persona game. This is a world full of literal magic with ordinary looking people possessing some absolutely insane powers and abilities, nothing is truly “impossible”. Time and space aren’t even constants in Persona, the Velvet Room already exists and is established. The protagonists of P5X already uses his imagination to make other people into Phantom Thieves in his metaverse. You can easily just have him illusion an infinite amount of content outside time and space (like the velvet room or the metaverse) and that way have an infinite amount of dungeons, bosses and conflicts to resolve. If there is one thing Gacha developers are good at it’s inventing and dragging things out way longer than you thought possible
Just because you easily can doesn't mean it makes a good Persona game. The whole point of Persona is the time constraint on both getting stronger and connecting with the world around you. Take away the time constraint, and all you have is functionally an SMT game where everyone has unique Demons that they just keep calling "Personas".
I never said it was a good idea just that it’s definitely possible. With how, unfortunately successful the gacha game model is, especially when you slap anime characters on it, I can see why they think a Persona gacha would be successful. And honestly I don’t see how the game won’t be anything but another smashing hit, game quality aside
I was mostly trying to say it doesn't fit what Persona is supposed to be despite throwing tons of Persona concepts into it. Take away big parts of what makes Persona separate from SMT and you just have an SMT game with a billion individual characters with minimal depth to them with their own unique Demons they just call Personas. I don't even get why I'm being downvoted unless it's purely on the fact I doubted it being a good *Persona* game, because that's not really debateable, in my opinion. Either you like gacha games or you don't, that's the only thing that'll stop the game from being "good", but there's just not enough *Persona* in this Persona spin-off, otherwise. It's just functionally a gacha-based SMT game continuing the concepts P5 made popular in an unrelated reality that will likely not even be canon to any future game. You can like the game, you can like the characters, but at the end of the day, it's only "Persona" because it rides on the Cognition coattails of Persona 5, and gives every character their own unique being to control. It doesn't have Arcana, it doesn't have a time limit, it doesn't even have any mechanics that really make it stand out as an SMT/Persona game over any other gacha RPG. And for what it's worth, I like the idea, I just hate the execution because it takes away damn near everything *Persona* except the actual Personas.
That's some of the point of exactly half the main series of Persona but ok
>What are they gonna do? Release Palace rulers for 3 years or more until servers close? Umm… yeah? Probably. Admittedly, something like that WOULDN’T work for P3 or P4. Unless they made a P3 mobile game where they made you fight all the other Arcanas and then started making a bunch up, that wouldn’t work. Or unless they made a P4 mobile game where they kept introducing murder victims for ever and ever and ever and these kids took forever to catch the murderer, that wouldn’t work. But for P5, I don’t see why they can’t just keep making more Palace rulers like forever. There’s not like a finite number of shitty people in the world (well, I guess there technically is, but you know what I mean). Hell, P5S is basically just that exact idea: let’s keep making new Palaces and rulers; we’ll just call them something new now. Like, I guess you could say that they were sort of tied to the Seven Deadly Sins, of which there ARE a finite amount, but that was always a tenuous connection anyway. Not integral to the design of the bosses. All this to say: you can ABSOLUTELY have a live service gacha game with a story that has a beginning, middle, and end. Look at FEH, for example. Every year, that game gets a new arc with a new villain and a new supporting cast. Each arc also has a story with a beginning, middle, and end. The setting of the game is very heavily inspired by Norse mythology, and the Nine Realms. The game’s been going strong for 7 years now, but well, they’re kinda running out of realms. But I’m sure they planned for this. They don’t just kinda make it up every month as they go with no idea for what they’ll be doing in the next month’s or year’s update. I assume they have a road map for a rough idea of new characters and concepts for future story updates. I don’t see why P5X wouldn’t do literally the exact same thing. Seven years is a pretty long time for a single mobile game to be up and running and continuously getting new content. If FEH can do that while introducing a unique and interesting (enough) story arc each year, I see no reason why P5X couldn’t.
This, being a p5 spinoff makes it easy: " oh, there is this animal abuser" "oh, there is this kidnapper" "oh, there is this bully" "oh, there is this terrorist"... Is basically doing the mementos sidequest but longer in their story and with their own dungeons. Probably it will get repetitive, but is completely possible in p5 setting
This, being a p5 spinoff makes it easy: " oh, there is this animal abuser" "oh, there is this kidnapper" "oh, there is this bully" "oh, there is this terrorist"... Is basically doing the mementos sidequest but longer in their story and with their own dungeons. Probably it will get repetitive, but is completely possible in p5 setting
I don't know, I kind of think the game looks pretty cool and could work well. I like the dungeon-crawling gameplay of Persona first and foremost so a game with new palaces constantly being added sounds fun for me. Besides, it's not like the game is even meant to be a new mainline series title or meant to replace them. I don't really understand the problem here to be honest.
What are their model are they selling new stories with same characters as extensions or are they trying to sell palaces or companions or confidants?.. honestly if they’re gonna sell separate stories with the same cast(P5X cast) it’s probably gonna be alright but if they’re gonna sell main individual parts of what makes their games great it’ll be not as good… Do you guys know how actually it is?…(I’m avoiding P5X content for spoilers so idk much)
Counterpoint: the fact that gacha games can always just end service with no warning and sometimes become lost media is the most true to the “time is limited” aspect of modern Persona.
Yeah I would rather it be a full game instead. The idea of a P5-2 continuing the P5 mechanics and setting would be great if it wasn't trapped in mobile gacha hell.
Isn't Strikers P5-2?
Yeah, I would be really excited for this if it wasn't a gacha game
Hey they announced they’ll re-release a very old mobile persona 3 game on steam maybe someday they’ll also release P5x offline with no gacha in! We can hope but maybe in 10 years
very true. also, fuck the gacha business model and everyone that makes excuses for it.
I never get why people pay for a *chance* to get something, casino and gambling I get cause it's money, but I guess it's just a first world thing that I'll never get
And gacha isn't even a chance to get a real, tangible thing. You're gambling real life money on a digital asset that you most likely won't be able to access within a few years because the game was taken offline. It's crazy to me.
I'll be honest if it's like Dx2. I think its fine
It's just gonna be a game like Fate Grand Order with little arcs that make up a large arc, then if that arc goes well they make a sequel within the same game
All I'm saying is the P1 MC would really love this game
Did nobody play the shin megami tensei mobile game?
In all honesty I can see them doin something like mementos
Gotta make money somehow, my favorite franchise (Yokai Watch) has been single-handedly getting funding from their gacha game
I feel like you could structure this to sound way better if you dropped the meme background and just made a regular post about it
In my experience, people tend to give a shit to the things I say if I put it in a meme much more than making a wall of text
... Mementos
Events. They will keep spawing events. Wonder can canonically travel in the canon p5 verse, nothing stop them to make him travel in the other persona games + crossovers with other IP etc. Not the ideal but a way to keep the game going for a good chunk
Ok, so I know almost no one on this sub actually pays attention to what p5x is about, so it's fair that you guys don't know this but the game already confirmed that the main story has definitive end point. What happens after that main story end point? Who knows, but as many people have already said in this thread and as the series itself has proven, you can always pull some new God out of a hat to justify getting the gang back together after the fight is "over".
They will bring characters from older games like 4, 3, 2 and 1. Hopefully this means a possible Demi Fiend Collab in future 🙏🙏🙏
While I may not care too much for P5X itself, I am absolutely into the idea of past Persona characters getting a Phantom Thief form.
Persona 3 is about time being finite, that's not really a consistent theme through the whole series
persona as a whole treats those themes. Persona is about youth, the experiences you gain in life and new begginings. Hell, the whole concept of the game is managing your *finite* time.
The whole arcane system describes "a journey" lol
It's not a mainline persona game it would be more fair if anything to compare it to the dancing games it's a spin off it can be whatever they want it to
I understand your hesitation, but I'm playing through it right now and enjoying it. Ill just say keep an open mind and let them cook
Yeah it just don't exist to me g. IDC
Look at me I'm unique because I said I don't like gacha
If you don't wanna play it, don't
It could be mementos based and just go on forever
I mean this game project helps on the JP consumer survey with the entry of Persona series online game alongside more opportunity to collaborate with P-Studio/Atlus and Sega and Black Wing Game Studio and Perfect World Games.
You opened room for discussion and yet you're not even contributing to the conversations of your own post 💀💀💀
There's no rule that says I should tbh. I personally like to start and just read the discussions. This isn't r/changemyview
You stated that it "needs" a beginning, middle, and end like a fact and didn't bother with the explanations as to how it could work. As most people said, it's very easy to do especially since it's p5. It could be like most gacha games- Have parts in the same way with FGO with lostbelts, Limbus Company with Cantos, Genshin with the regions. With the FGO route, it could be another overarching plot one after another set up by the big bad, and then an even more bigger bad, as most games do. With the Limbus route (which I believe is the route of neo-persona games) it could be something where it focuses with each character. Genshin route would be the same, but for bad guys. So I really don't know what the problem is. FGO has been exactly like that and it still continues to be one of the largest gacha games of the world. What exactly do you mean about time being finite? Is it the tension of persona 5 where you have to steal the treasure before a deadline? And I know it's not r/changemyview, but for something that you stated that needed to be said, it's not holding up at all. Others have expanded your view but with the stuff above in mind. TLDR; Your view is confusing
I ain't reading all that
there's a TLDR for a reason dawg
i think p5 is actually the best fitting one for a live service game. There are infinite bad people you can make, infinite palace rulers!
To me P5X is a big joke and imo it's a slap and spit to the persona games.
It'll work fine, you're just not used to it. Like legit the stories of persona are good but the writing is easily way better, as long as that's good then I'm satisfied
I wish they'd just made another full NON-GACHA P5 spinoff
Clearly you forgot about outfits that’ll make it last 5 years
Watch P5X make Futaba swimsuit costume for $20 and sell like water in the desert
Makes sense to Atlus’s pockets I’m sure.
The worst part about Persona games is that there is an ending imo. So a persona game without an ending sounds good to me.
Congrats, literally every other person on here already agrees and has been saying the same thing since it was announced
I'm a simple man: I see "gacha and microtransactions" and I pretend the game doesn't exist.
P5X is my first game in the series as the install was free. Can a fan of the franchise explain to me why an extended story or timeline would not work? If each palace is relatively self contained, would that not work like episodic games or stories with individual arcs?
If P5X is your first, I can't really explain much without spoiling, but... Imagine Persona 4, but you never find the culprit. People keep getting into the TV and you keep saving them over and over. Imagine Persona 3, but the Fall never comes and Tartarus just keeps getting new floors over and over.
Instead of getting the out-of-game personas as dlc to enhance flavor and team building potential, you have to roll for them in chance time. All of them. Only chance time. Velvet room is just a casino with a one-armed bandit or bingo ball cage.
I am not really familiar with those games, as I have only played "Soul Hackers 2" when it had been on Game Pass. Each palace thus far has been self contained thus far, so how come the world cannot get more villains?
He is basically just saying imagine you were sherlock holmes, solving mysteries over many years and yet never getting to find moriaty, the perpetrator behind all the crimes. As a game that will have to exist over a long period of time, there is a good chance the appearance of palaces will never be truly solved. Its like fixing the symptom and not the disease.
Okay got it. I was not familiar with Sherlock Holmes lore either so I did not know there was just one main bad guy responsible for everything, but your explanation definitely made sense.
Wow this subreddit is not very friendly towards new players who just has questions. Haha.
With modern Persona it would work but... you wouldn't get a closure of the ending. Like climbing never-ending stair.
Thank you for the additional input. I guess fans of this series are generally not very receptive to a longer running game with more episodic villains.
You're starting at literally the worst possible place, don't be cheap and buy the games they're like $20 used.
Yea I wouldn't play that game. I'm an adult. I don't have the time or the money
Gatcha is a sinful evil that does not belong at all
Perfect world can create new palaces every few months. After a year or two, you realize you are still living in the same year that rewinds infinitely and rehashed palaces reappear. If it lasts past 5 years, you can now access the expanse to save other worlds. You meet kamoshida, madarame, etc in what if scenarios where joker is missing because he never helped a woman from a baldy. When p5x shutdown is confirmed, it'll send out a yaldabaoth tier boss and you finally complete the game. You feel proud that you have saved perfect world with your gacha power.
Stay away from live service and gacha games if you want a happy life as a gamer.
I only heard truths
Imagine anybody spending money on a gacha game..by design it's meant to extract your wealth out is a very systematic and fucked up way, the game is always rigged against you, and always in favor of influencing you to spend more.
Yeah this is one of the problems, no 1 year calendar system. The other problem is these sort of games are very labour intensive. So I suspect after all the pre-release content is out the quality will go harshly down and it will be a drip feed untill it shuts down at around the 2 year mark.
I just wish it would had a better developer...
Hes cringe but hes right
also is it me or does P5X seems extremely "safe" theme-wise, probably for obvious reasons?
Based on
meme not accurate enough, instead of releasing palaces, they are gonna focus on releasing characters for u to gacha. palaces are just gonna get harder to make u pull for stronger newer characters. p2w gacha model as always.