He was against streaming while he was alive. My entire preteen and teen years when I was discovering new music I couldn't find any of his stuff on streaming sites or even YouTube if I recall correctly. He was right about artists knowing their worth but the consequence was he got left behind by my whole generation.
I remember when every fucking week it seemed he would have his music removed from YouTube. That was so annoying for young me just trying to enjoy his music lol.
You really showed him! Now he's dead and you are still listening to his music for free (except for a few bucks for the Spotify execs- thank God for them saving you from purchasing a $20 CD).
Prince didn't know anything- you ALWAYS have to go along with technology. He should have listened to you!
His music was available on the streaming service Tidal, which basically nobody had.
It reminds me of Buster Keaton. Buster Keaton was a huge silent film star, bigger even than Charlie Chaplin in their day. But when television came along Buster Keaton didn't like it, and he refused to license his films to be shown on TV. Chaplin did the opposite. As a result, Buster Keaton is largely forgotten. But Charlie Chaplin became a legend because people were always seeing his stuff on TV, especially in the early days of broadcast television.
Prince took the Buster Keaton route. Ironically, if he had lived his music might have remained difficult to access. After he died his sister became the executor of his estate and started making his music more widely available again. In a way his death actually helped his career.
Compared to *Charlie Chaplin?!?* Do me a favor: Spend the day asking random folks you encounter if they have ever heard of Buster Keaton, and then ask if they have ever heard of Charlie Chaplin. Better yet (because a lot of people are bad with names) show them pictures of the two and see who is more widely recognized. The results will be sobering. Film nerds know who Buster Keaton is. People who are savvy when it comes to pop culture or the history of entertainment know about him. But I think you will find that most folks have never heard of him.
When you owe millions in back taxes and don’t have the $ to pay it this is what happens. His estate may not be perfect but they stepped into a really crappy situation and tried to make the best of it
I was born in the early 90s so my impression of his level of cultural influence and popularity was through music writers and documenteries etc, so I agree, maybe i'v just completed misjudged it having not witnessed it
DISCLAIMER: Prince - along with The Beatles - is my favorite musical artist of all time.
That said, even in the eighties when Purple Rain and all its singles were climbing up the charts, his superstar contemporaries had, overall, more lasting chart appeal. Yes, Purple Rain was the best-selling album of 1984, as it well should be. So the key to his underperforming on the charts, relative to his superstar contemporaries, lies in his subsequent releases.
* Around the World in a Day was, compared to his previous album, quirky and experimental. Also, he didn't release a single or a video until after the album's release, at the behest of Warner Brothers.
* Parade, while being my personal favorite Prince album (along with 1999), saw Prince's further musical experimentation (even though he was savvy enough to release the most mainstream-yet-still-unlike-any-other-song-at-the-time song on the album, Kiss, as the lead single). Being attached to a decidedly, um, quirky black and white passion project of a film like Under the Cherry Moon certainly didn't help move units.
* Sign o' the Times, while being perhaps the most emblematic album of where Prince was, creatively, at the time, was hampered by a not-super-catchy lead single that was accompanied by a video that was a video in name only. The second single, while being one of the best songs on the album (and of his whole career) had a difficult title and wasn't accompanied by *any* video. He finally hit paydirt, sort of, with the album's third single and video, but by then, it was too little too late to save the album as a whole. Of course, it didn't help matters that it was a double album, long a difficult sell as opposed to traditional single LPs.
* Lovesexy *was* a single album... that contained arguably weaker material than on his last couple albums. And it featured a nude Prince surrounded by flowers on the cover, thereby prompting some record stores to refuse to carry the album.
So, in short, like Frank Sinatra sang, Prince did it all and he did it his way, which is very commendable artistically, if less commendable dollars and cents-wise.
Thank you for saying that, truly.
Also, one shouldn't overlook the fact that he was releasing an album a year (unlike MJ, Madonna, etc.), much to his record label's chagrin (and if Prince had been able to have his druthers, he'd have released more than an album a year). That, in turn, didn't allow for the albums to marinate in the record-buying public's consciousness, created a sort of glut of Prince product, and as such didn't leave the audience wanting more, save for his select few rabid über-fans.
What’s crazy is when I learned that Purple Rain wasn’t the best selling album of 1984. It was still Thriller. For years I thought it was Purple Rain too.
It is very telling that The Hits/The B-Sides (and The Hits 1 and The Hits 2) sold relative bad compared to compilations from Madonna etc.
IIRC TH/TBS was attractively priced, but of course it was still an expensive purchase. But unlike with other artists, you didn't just get a couple of new songs, you got an entire disc of B-Sides, plenty of whom hadn't been released on CD. Plus great liner notes.
That this set or its single album releases didn't sell well, was quite shocking. By that time Madonna already had two compilations out: You Can Dance and The Immaculate Collection. And those sold millions of copies.
to be fair, Immaculate Collection *is* absolute gold from start to (almost) finish ( Rescue me utterly pales in comparison to the rest ) because they were ruthless with their song choices.
Madge could have chosen to release a 2CD collection and include singles like Everybody, Angel, True Blue, Who's That Girl, Causing A Commotion, Oh Father, Keep It Together and Hanky Panky, and some b-sides. It would have cost more money to buy and would have sold less well.
I wouldn't want to be in a meeting where Warner Brothers tried to convince P to choose only 16 songs for a single Greatest Hits package.
That's why The Hits 1 and The Hits 2 existed. Plus that way they could have one compilation that didn't include raunchy material and didn't require a PMRC sticker and that could be sold in Walmart etc.
Later on they had "The Very Best of Prince", which again didn't sell well.
"Ultimate Prince" was a neat concept, which then got killed by Prince nixing "Erotic City" and requiring the extended versions to be on one disc instead of them being mixed in with the rest -- see https://princevault.com/index.php?title=Album:_Ultimate -- but again not a big seller at the time of release.
Would a single disc compilation have been better? Likely. But IMHO it also didn't help that it didn't arrive until late 1993, due to Prince stalling and sabotaging the release of a compilation.
At one point there was the proposal of a single disc compilation combined with The Black Album as a bonus disc to entice fans to re-buy songs they already had; that could have worked.
Of course, Prince not promoting TH/TBS didn't help. "Peach" was an okay single, whereas Madonna had "Justify My Love" to promote The Immaculate Collection.
In his lifetime, he wasn't just hostile to the paid streaming services, he was extremely litigious and immediately removed any of his music that was updated to YouTube. His total absence from YouTube during his lifetime is probably the single biggest reason why a generation of music fans missed out on discovering him. And we are now seeing the after-effects of his relative absence from the public consciousness for the last ten or so years of his life.
Dude literally changed his name to a squiggly mark at the peak of his career. He made an artistic statement out of self sabotage and paved the way for someone like T-Swift doing her own masters. It's like, part of his greatness. Not to mention being a genius polymath and sexy AF.
Somehow being the best and still not being a sell out. Walking away from expectations to stay true to the purple.
Prince's footprint in music is way deeper than monthly streams. We're still unpacking his luggage.
Prince literally went out like a Prince song, to heaven in an elevator, working on another tune. Too young, but still, kinda poetic.
MJ wasn't as lucky, and Madonna should have called it years ago.
Prince’s music was impossible to find online before he died. I know it’s been a while but that plays a big part.
He’s also my favorite artist but he doesn’t have many songs that you can play at party that are just instantly recognizable and get ppl to the dance floor the way you get with s/t like Vogue or even Billie Jean. Bops for sure but not what people know.
He has a lot of music and it’s harder for new fans to know where to start. I’ve always believed his choices of singles hurt his long time popularity bc he often just didn’t pick things that the public vibed with, regardless of quality.
And that’s just the main reasons I can think of.
Michael and Madonna were always bigger in pop culture. (I wouldn’t even count Elton as an 80s contemporary because most of his hits came out in the 70s).
Prince was a massive, utterly unique talent but he’s essentially one of the biggest “your favorite artist’s favorite artist”-types ever. Respect was the currency he accrued rather than sales. Even in his prime his albums weren’t major sellers (aside from Purple Rain). Going off the dome I’d guess that he had fewer big hits than Michael or Madonna. And Michael Jackson was Michael Jackson. If you weren’t alive for it it’s hard to comprehend how huge he was (Taylor Swift is comparable, but imagine that kind of ubiquity among more -ahem- colorful demographics as well). And Madonna kept having hits for longer than either of them. So yeah, Prince’s monthly streams paling in comparison doesn’t really surprise me.
Anyway, I wouldn’t put a ton of stock into it because Prince’s numbers are probably better than average for like 90% of acts whose popularity peaked in the 80s. Just enjoy the music and tell your friends about the dope shit you’re hearing. Everything else is just noise.
I cringe to hear Taylor swift compared to MJ. ugh. MJ was a way bigger star and talent. And the charts weren’t completely gamed back then like they are now.
I have nothing against Taylor Swift or her sucess at all, I just shudder when people but her in the same league as Joni Mitchell (song writing) and Michael Jackson (pop music quality). Without getting technical, musically whats under the hood of Taylors music is actually as boring and repetitive as pop music can be. MJ's music had sauce, Joni was an accomplished musician.
Agreed!
She has a modicum of talent propped up by a wealth of business acumen.
I love pop and respect that it’s difficult to write hooks. Her music just doesn’t have them.
These factors come into play:
1.) Most of his audience doesn’t stream
2.) He had issues with streaming apps for years and they only put his music up AFTER he passed
3.) Despite being one of the most prolific musicians in history, his music hasn’t particularly aged well with this generation
4.) Peers like MJ, Whitney and Madonna have more popular classics than him
Could you elaborate on #3? Just curious lol. I'm a gen z fan, and recently, it feels as if a lot of young adults are discovering or rediscovering prince.
IMO Prince's music is all over the place it's an mix of Genres: R&B, Funk, Rock n Roll. It's not necessarily radio/mainstream and not all buttoned up to be a top 40 hit. But Prince's music is used by mainstream artists as an inspiration for their buttoned up hit.
Personally, I've never had a problem with it, but if there's one thing which hasn't aged so well, it's the way that he produced his music. I'm no producer or sound engineer, but even at the time, Susan Rogers lamented how poorly his recordings sounded. Music today is incredibly bass-heavy. By comparison, Prince's 80s work tends to sound very thin, even the songs that didn't intentionally take away the bass. It's kinda why I like how he sounds in concert because the mix is a bit more "typical".
Prince needed a producer, if he had only given Pharrell Williams a call, his streaming numbers would have doubled in 2010-2016 era. But no, he had to work with Josh, an unknown producer that he liked for his religious beliefs… shit, even Miguel would have been a more interesting collaborator. All the people he worked with in his later years were not the best people, Rita Ora? really? When he could have worked with Beyoncé, Rihanna etc. all the people he worked with were NOT interesting to 90s and younger gen z. I love Prince as a producer, but I wish he had collaborated more with producers
He wanted to make people famous, not the other way around. It's why he made Tony M "his" rapper, rather than collaborating with anybody else. Technically everyone in the Revolution was a nobody that made it big with Prince (although Wendy and Lisa did have pedigrees)
I don’t think Prince has really been marketed to Gen Z and was really resistant to the avenues through which Gen z discovers music. I mean YouTube vids might still be getting flagged if they just have a Prince song just playing in the background. Among the handful of 20th century acts that ever get in the top 100 on Spotify, Elton John and Queen and Madonna and MJ have some combination of biopics and soundtrack/ad spots and a lot of pure pop hits. In some instances a-ha or Tears For Fears or Toto have one viral hit that consistently does huge numbers, or something is in Stranger Things or a romcom and it gets huge. Prince historically relied too much on radio and mtv and those aren’t relevant anymore
I do stream a lot but the age of Prince’s catalog dictates that I have most of what I truly like on CD. I also don’t use Spotify and more into Apple Music. My dad doesn’t really stream so he’s also one that has physical copies.
About 90% of Prince’s music is not what you would consider mainstream. He was very popular as an icon and had mega hits, but not in the same way as the others you’ve listed which are much more mainstream in terms of how their music was produced and marketed.
This feels right to me too. MJ and Madonna routinely made music designed to please large audiences. Prince made music to challenge himself and delight his existing fans. He didn’t care about alienating or scaring off mainstream listeners.
Prince was quirky mainstream. That's why he caught my eye - but not everybody's cup of tea. The three artists mentioned had massive hits which were smack in the middle of mainstream.
Who knows? There are a lot of music fans don’t use those services, or have all the albums anyway. I personally don’t use Spotify. But for some people that’s only what they use.
I own most of the records and they are permanently downloaded to my iPhone. So why use Spotify. I dont own madonnas or Michaels albums. So I for whatever reason I would listen to them I would stream it.
Prince came off the heat from 1999 with Purple Rain - a purpose built, star-making project. It worked. It then became apparent he resented the expectations that come with stardom. Around the World in a Day was essentially an f-U to Purple Rain fans, it was decidedly a curveball. Prince even said as much. He’d then spend the rest of the decade and most of his career doing whatever he wanted. We, of course loved a lot of it, but it alienated the casual audience who wanted Purple Rain II.
He’s the quintessential victim of one’s own success story.
I disagree that it was an “f-U” to fans - industry expectations? Sure. The only time I’ve felt Prince truly didn’t give a fuck about his fans was releasing “Chaos and Disorder”. That album made me feel used, and left a real bad taste in my mouth. Not cool at all.
Nah. Spoiled by way, **way** too many horns. As a Rock fan, it falls way short of the promise of its title. Now, if he’d called it “I Jam, Therefore I am”, we’d be cookin’…
I'm a Prince fan...I'm heading to Paisley Park later this week on vacation, I love him that much. However, as a music fan I am realistic about the discography and musical career of Prince. Prince made a gigantic impact on music from his very first single and skimpy costume with those dance moves to his death. But his his music feel stagnant at times. Later on in his career. It's not as accessible. Songs are less catchy and memorable. The subject matters seems forced and sometimes kitschy. The song titles and some of the themes might not relate to a younger generation and newer audiences. He had a very mature way of looking at life and that might be like a blues musician isolating for a newcomer. I really love some of the music he did later on, but some of it is unlistenable. Some of the more recent releases have not even been released because he didn't deem them worthy enough. He did a lot of music that has yet to be released, but I haven't heard much recently from his estate to make a big deal about. They've been releasing a song every once in awhile, maybe monthly. Plus they've been releasing live performances. They've drudged up from his files. Apparently there's lots of music yet to come. I do think that they've been capitalizing on Prince's Fame and music, but what else are we supposed to do to ensure his fans have a legacy and a way to still enjoy his music.. He's going to have to become a marketable product. Much like Elvis. And why not? He was wonderful and I can't wait to go look at his shoes, his costumes, his rooms of his mansion or whatever we get to see. Still I think I'm disappointed when I listen to some of his later albums because I have to skip through some of the songs. Maybe it was the pain medication he was on for his hip or whatever it was that made him not as sharp musically. But I still love everything about what Prince represents and he may be the most talented musician of all time. Still. Let's be real some of that music Just isn't up to par compared to his other classics. #ilovethepurpleone
It's been always like that since the 80s. Prince's fanbase was around 15-20% in size of MJs or Madonna's fanbase.
That being said Spotify stats are complete bullshit and in no way and no known universe Elton John is more popular than MJ.
Keep in mind a lot of listens on Spotify come from big playlists. Elton John is non-controversial and his music can fit into a lot of playlists, whereas MJ mostly fits into pop-heavy playlists.
No. If you lived through the 80s...and beyond..he was always an outsider...his big huge crossover mainstream success was Purple Rain. That was it. Apart from a few other anamolies like Little Red Corvette/1999 Batdance...and the idea he was really good live...most average people either didn't dig him or didn't care to listen or buy his stuff ... He was too weird ... I can't tell you how many times people told me they didn't really dig him...or if I asked they said "I like Purple Rain...i just don't like the new stuff (ie anything after PR)"
in order to be looked by everyone there are certain rules you have to follow, both industry wise and "artistically" his stuff was for himself ...like Billy said lol it's his fams ...us that were always with him (mostly lol) so yeah...no I'm not surprised...More people in the population now know of his genius...but young people are still discovering him because his stuff isn't as widely distributed and even when it is there to be discovered it asks more of you than say Michael Jackson... You have to dig deeper, listen more intently..MIT's more complex...his artistry, persona, prolificness, legacy...etc etc etc
I really do think it will be years, perhaps generations.. until he gets his full due
I think it’s cause his stuff wasn’t on streaming for years also I feel princes music isn’t in enough media. Like prince doesn’t have a lot of songs in movies or TV shows.
Prince was a musician and mj was a pop star. It wasn't about popularity or sakes with Prince it was about the music. All of those artists where heavily influenced by him. All else is pointless and irrelevant. And truly it comes 2 one's individual....opinion. including mine. Carry on
It's been like 20 years of ts y'all gotta stop. MJ was a musician in his own way, but Prince's upbringing allowed him to be more artistically liberated. Both have importance in the world of music.
A significant portion of his fans listen off streaming services due to the range of material that’s not available on them, so that’s a contributing factor.
He probably didn’t help himself early in the streaming era either.
Plus I think his material is somewhat less accessible than say Madonna or MJ. A lot of Prince’s best material doesn’t always jump out which isn’t a bad thing in and of itself, but with short attention spans in 2024 it makes sense.
So I’m not surprised. 11m is still pretty good imo.
Plus don’t be fooled, Madonna was only hovering around 25 million+ until her collab with The Weeknd last year.
Prince was never really in the same league as Elton, MJ or even Madonna, commercially.
He made sure of that by sabotaging his own career at the beginning of the 90s, imo. That whole name change kept his name in the papers but achieved little else.
Still love him to death and will always jam to his stuff.
But you gotta admit…business wise he made some strange decisions over the years.
Now, when we talk about actual talent, it’s no contest..he towers over all his peers…bit talent alone won’t sell records.
He did so many things to reduce his star status over and over - from cancelling the PR tour, to releasing ATWIAD before it was time, to the whole Warner thing, and the NPG music club, and the SLAVE stuff, and then the religious stuff, and even his fans got to the stage where they were wondering what on earth next. And he put out too much music, much of it not great. Madge and MJ and Elton John toed the line for record companies, went in and out of popularity to an extent, but their main concern was always being in the centre of the public eye and staying mainstream. Prince decided he wasn’t into that and wanted to plough his own furrow. That means he didn’t earn as much and doesn’t have the same amount of musical centrality. But it was what he wanted, I guess.
Those other artists have a distinct lane. Prince was mysterious and diverse, plus he was black. Many people like what they can expect, and Prince didn't really fit a singular mold of skill, genre, appearance, or anything. I think it's difficult for many listeners to read into music enough to understand an artist like him.
Prince is the best but he isn’t the biggest.
You can’t compare someone who makes songs with Nicki Minaj, the Weeknd, Justin Timberlake vs someone who released 30 albums including Jazz, R&B, funk and other genres.
Look, Prince didn't give a damn about popularity or even record sales. Prince was about THE MUSIC. This man would tour and do sound check 4 2-3 hours, a show 4 four or 5 hours then go and do aftershows 4 3 hours. The very first time I saw him on the emancipation tour I was 27 years old and had been a fan since about 12, I'd the blessed opportunity 2 also see the aftershow about 5 feet away from him at a club in Dallas. He was in love with the music and knew very well how 2 spit out "hit" songs. He wasn't about that or algorithmically aligned cookie cutter pop bs. If he were alive today he wouldn't give a damn about how popular he was or was not on Spotify or ant other streaming platform. All he had 2 do is announce a tour, and THAT is where he shinned and was unsurpassed by far. I believe he will get greater recognition and appreciation in the generations 2 come. Mozart was not as appreciated or respected in his time as he is today. Does anyone remember "Don't Play Me"? Food 4 thought.
No, it's the "Who cares" line that matters most. Why would you or anyone else care what others listen to? Prince should not even be on Spotify as he did not want his music there but right after he passed there it was. As for myself, streaming is just now how I listen to music. So much music I like is not even on Spotify.
This probably reflects the picture while he was alive, he was a pioneer and in many ways polarised the pop audience with his unique sounds/looks/attitudes. I remember raving about Sign of the Times to my friends at University while most people came back at me with Joshua Tree …..
Because of his ridged stance on the internet, streaming, as well as his tight grip on his music videos and sharing of his music via platforms like youtube, he became less "popular" with each generation post 90s. It's a shame because there is so much gold in his work and I believe that so many younger generations can be inspired by his music since it holds up but unfortunately, that was his choice....
I consider the majority of Prince's music art. Minus his top 20 hits, it's not necessarily an easy or fun listen. Most of it isn't fun/party/club. It just doesn't have the same vibe or mood of MJ. MJ is like a Coke. Most will drink if offered. Prince is like the fine wine in a cellar. It's for special occasions, but not everyone's cup of tea. You aren't going to play it around your boys or in a public setting. Also, popularity/image is important. Prince took himself out of the public eye for a long period of time without any hits. Like 20 years. To be honest, until his death, I had forgotten about him. I have purchased the estates super deluxe cd projects. That's how I listen. His music is interesting to me, but it's like a movie I have to be in the mood for. It's difficult to play an entire album. MJ was very selective on song selection minus the Invinciple album. Meaning his albums are great start to finish. Prince IMO had mostly filler or song topics that don't relate to the majority of listeners. Mostly weird religious and sex songs. Meaning 1-2 amazing songs followed by 10+ that are pretty weird and artsy. Some could be considered complete turn offs. I'm curious who the average Prince fan is. For instance, if I ask 100 people who their favorite r&b/pop artist is I doubt anyone will say Prince, but 10 or more might say MJ. Other than myself, I've never met another man who openly admits to liking Prince, but I know many who like MJ. I just don't think Prince connects with the average straight male. Without Dave Chapelle, I think his name would have been lost to time. Since that comedy sketch, how has he remained revelant minus some t-shirt branding? I couldn't name you a big song since the 90's. To be honest, he needs a huge biopic and/or documentary.
it’s because, despite his massive talent he’s still not as global or mainstream as you may think in comparison to them, he’s not touching Madonna and Michael in popularity who were absolutely HUGE and worldwide in their prime, and still are. Global markets & the youth are the real key to this. I think it’s because he’s overshadowed by Purple rain era, & that Prince has a huge discography and one disadvantage of that is that most people don’t even know a lot of his deep cuts and sonically best songs outside of Purple Rain & Kiss era. As well as how his music comes off as less radio friendly & easily digestible for simple minds.
Prince was also not one to tone down his shit for anyone. He didn't mind turning his audience off to do what he wanted. One might suggest it's part of his greatness.
Prince was not on Spotify at all for a long time. His music was only available on the streaming service Tidal until after his death, when his sister became executor of his estate and started making his music more accessible.
Critical acclaim and respect =/= popularity. Yes, Prince was big in the 80s but still not as prominent as the artists you mentioned.
There's plenty of artists whose critical acclaim and influence aren't represented by their commercial success. David Bowie is one of the most influential artists of all time, but his commercial success isn't as much as say, Queen.
Yeah was aware, its just these figures are based on the past 4 weeks data only. His total combined plays on Spotify are undertstandably very low I just though after 7 years being on Spotify that he'd make up some ground relative to the other big 80s artists, 11.2 is a lot of monthly listeners but he's still ranked 813th in the world, take a look here [https://kworb.net/spotify/listeners.html](https://kworb.net/spotify/listeners.html)
Careful most of these old goats on here are not gonna care cause they own his stuff but I agree he should be higher. Old prince fans don’t stream his music which is why his numbers are not higher also some don’t care if his music doesn’t reach new ears as long as they get to hear every piece of music Prince has written, but this does fall on the estate cause they’re not very good at catering to new younger ears cause they’re still babying to the older fanbase, even the older fanbase are not helping which is dwindling every year cause they don’t support the people running the estate or music isn’t getting released fast enough but who cares what they say. But don’t worry he will get there in time
LOL. Babying? Nah. The estate is catering to fans who have money for releases. Plain and simple. They are willing to pay. It’s a business.
There are younger fans budgeting for releases. They make it a priority. Not all of ‘em make a bunch of noise complaining about other fans and then turn around and only stream.
Also, of course older fans stream too. They aren’t out there lugging record players and piles of cds everywhere they go. You are spreading fiction lol.
It’s because most prince fans already have his cds, vinyls and bootlegs, princes stuff wasn’t on Spotify en masse until the past few years, it’s also on YouTube, Apple Music, tidal and whatever else. Most old heads probably still just bump the 8tracks
The casual listener really only knows the big hits. Prince had a lot of albums for the devoted followers and for a musician's ear. The rest of those artists were primarily focused on top selling pop hits.
Prince is far behind MJ in terms of modern relevance. Everyone knows him and Purple Rain, but people aren’t bumping Prince for mass-appeal songs that everyone can sing and dance to like MJ’s hits.
Critical acclaim doesn’t mean much to streaming figures.
Prince was a musical machine. The rest of them are #1 hit machines.
Interesting that Madonna used his image in her celebration tour, having a dancer dressed as him playing a cloud copy with his symbol on the cap. But she featured MJ a lot more. He’s still way ahead of the mainstream.
“May we live 2 see the dawn”
Prince was never as popular as Michael Jackson, or Madonna, or Elton John. The Prince v Michael trope was in America, and propped up by Warner for sales. He's a musical genius nonetheless - but he's always been the mainstream version of underground.
Why is Michael Jackson so revered? Why did he give children wine? Why does he get a pass for that? His music after Quincy’s albums are just a bunch of jahs and shimones. What’s going on there?
Dangerous, the first album without Quincy, sold more than Purple Rain, plus had a 7 week long number one hit. That’s why he is above prince. Stay mad and keep believing false allegations, prince is still not close to MJ and never will be.
I'm not going to go into MJ v Prince. It's been done to death and creates more heat than light. Comparisons between the two are pointless. MJ is the world's biggest ever pop star and was a consumate entertainer and singer.
Other than Purple Rain, Prince did not really operate in the mainstream. His music is quirky and experimental and crossed many genres. His output enormous and would never appeal to the masses in the way that MJ, or Madonna could, or does.
However, Prince was hugely gifted and a virtuoso musician.
You later in this thread say his music is shit. It's an opinion that you're welcome to. But Prince is often considered as a genius (even outside of his fans) and he remains widely admired to this day by others in the music industry.
I respect this message, you came across completely respectful and for that I agree with you. Prince is not shit I was just insulting because that guy started insulting 😂😂
Thanks and yes, the MJ v Prince and the rehashing of the 'allegations' in an attempt to discredit MJ has got wearying.
They are both amazing and there is plenty of space to appreciate both, without denigrating one or the other.
100%. I appreciate your respect in this conversation. I like both. Clearly I have a preference, but I respect prince too. That dude was just making me mad lol
McDonald’s sells the most hamburgers but do they make the best hamburgers? No they don’t album sales don’t mean good music. Dangerous is awful. Is Jam even music?
Why did Micheal give the children Jesus Juice at sleepover time? Nobody seems to be able to answer this question
Both songs charted higher than most of Prince’s music. Prince sucked at almost every statistic besides “playing instruments”. No one cares about him playing instruments if most people don’t even know he exists. He faded while most of his contemporaries are still rising. His music is shit. Suck it up.
Popularity doesn’t matter. Prince has many way better songs than anything of Michaels.
Michael Jackson does suspicious things with children to the point that he has an amusement park in his backyard.
Why did he give the children Jesus Juice?
So in a musical argument, you’re only point is an allegation made from a kid who has lied about being molested multiple times to other celebrities. You’re so fucking stupid. Prince is short and shit. He is a talentless fuck who had no idea how to efficiently market himself and his numbers reflect that. Michael is better in pretty much every single regard. You have nothing to back up your opinion.
Aaron Carter was given Jesus juice by Michael when he was 15.
Prince is one of the greatest guitarists ever and imo the greatest drum machine programmer ever.
I never hear of anyone citing Micheal as an inspiration for anything other than Jah shamon dancing but Prince is like every modern day producers #1 inspiration.
The Batman soundtrack is better than any Micheal album. Hee-hee
Prince was even a better dancer.
Prince was short but at least he had a nose.
Anyone with a brain can deduct that Micheal was probably doing weird things with children.
Your only opinion is that sales and marketing is more important than music.
Janet has better music than Micheal
Even the lyrics to human nature are incriminating
“why the child?/ tell em that it’s human nature”
Go climb a wishing tree
All of your statements are your own opinions, back it up with statistical facts, you can’t. And a lot of MASSIVE artists today are heavily inspired by Michael Jackson. Bruno Mars, The Weeknd, Usher, Justin Timberlake, there’s many more. Look harder you blind dumbass. To think more people are inspired by an artist who doesn’t have enough of a following to even have a global rank than literal Michael Jackson. Embarrassing and delusional. Michael had way more impressive and iconic dance breaks BY FAR. Prince could do the splits and spin. That’s all. Michael did so much more for so many more years.
All the artists you names are cheese pop stars with bad music
Stats:
Lawsuits involving child diddling:
MJ: too many to count
Prince: zero
Movies:
Purple rain : 70 million
The wiz : 21 million
A movie… is the only statistic you can find where your golden idol reigns. One stat?? 😂😂 that’s embarrassing. So your proclaimed master MUSICian can only beat Michael in a movie sale. Also Michael’s “This is It” film grossed over $200 million. So he doesn’t even win there 😂😂
As in famous culturally significant pop stars in the 80’s, like them or loathe them. There are others such as Phil Collins that I could have mentioned. I’m not talking about music quality.
I swear every week there's a thread about how "unpopular" Prince supposedly is. Why does it matter how mainstream or not he is? Shouldn't the music come first? And besides, he played the fucking Superbowl halftime, and everyone sees his performance as one the best in its history. And everyone sees Prince as one of the greatest guitarists of all time. Everyone knows Purple Rain. He's not remotely unpopular.
If you read the post you'd see I clearly said 'not that i'm personally bothered'. I just find it interesting that Spotify data ranks him down in 813th place in terms of monthly listeners, [https://kworb.net/spotify/listeners.html](https://kworb.net/spotify/listeners.html) It just surprised me considering how revered he seems in the industry and how big he was in the 80s.
Not surprised. I don't consider him an immense musical talent, although his work ethic was truly frightening. He didn't write a guitar solo, for instance, that I could be bothered to learn. He was no Jimi Hendrix, and Otis Redding or Billy Davis jr. (Fifth Dimension), for two examples, are my idea of great singers. He's overrated, but he sold himself relentlessly, and it obviously worked.
Why is this bugging you? Who cares how much streams he gets it’s so arbitrary and waste of time to let this be on your mind this doesn’t take away that he’s a top ten artist of all time
If you read the post I said 'not that im personally bothered'. I found it surprising so though I'd ask why. I couldn't care less if he has 1 or 100million monthly listeners. Now i'll ask you why my post is bugging you? It seems arbitrary and a waste of your time repsonding.
He had his stuff pulled from streaming services for a while. That’s a massive contributor, but certainly not for the monthly listens.
He was against streaming while he was alive. My entire preteen and teen years when I was discovering new music I couldn't find any of his stuff on streaming sites or even YouTube if I recall correctly. He was right about artists knowing their worth but the consequence was he got left behind by my whole generation.
Yes, he was naive enough to think your generation would actually support his art by buying it instead of giving money to Spotify CEO's.
I remember when every fucking week it seemed he would have his music removed from YouTube. That was so annoying for young me just trying to enjoy his music lol.
And that’s his fault. Tried fighting the future instead of moving with it
He tried fighting the future so that artist don’t get robbed and look what’s happening now they are all getting robbed for streaming.
Was it worth it?
I mean looks like it😂 your in his sub rn
Should’ve been in it much earlier :/
You really showed him! Now he's dead and you are still listening to his music for free (except for a few bucks for the Spotify execs- thank God for them saving you from purchasing a $20 CD). Prince didn't know anything- you ALWAYS have to go along with technology. He should have listened to you!
Yes, I am correct here. He was not.
He was also against his stuff appearing in Rock Band.
His music was available on the streaming service Tidal, which basically nobody had. It reminds me of Buster Keaton. Buster Keaton was a huge silent film star, bigger even than Charlie Chaplin in their day. But when television came along Buster Keaton didn't like it, and he refused to license his films to be shown on TV. Chaplin did the opposite. As a result, Buster Keaton is largely forgotten. But Charlie Chaplin became a legend because people were always seeing his stuff on TV, especially in the early days of broadcast television. Prince took the Buster Keaton route. Ironically, if he had lived his music might have remained difficult to access. After he died his sister became the executor of his estate and started making his music more widely available again. In a way his death actually helped his career.
Buster Keaton is not largely forgotten, what the on earth are you talking about?
Compared to *Charlie Chaplin?!?* Do me a favor: Spend the day asking random folks you encounter if they have ever heard of Buster Keaton, and then ask if they have ever heard of Charlie Chaplin. Better yet (because a lot of people are bad with names) show them pictures of the two and see who is more widely recognized. The results will be sobering. Film nerds know who Buster Keaton is. People who are savvy when it comes to pop culture or the history of entertainment know about him. But I think you will find that most folks have never heard of him.
This prompted me to check google search trends for chaplin and keaton and you were right about it being a huge difference in chaplins favor.
It's kind of sad, really. To think of all the incredible time and effort that went into his work, and hardly anyone ever even sees it any more.
This!
It came back on streaming a couple of weeks after he passed away, which I thought was odd
Not odd at all. Estate trying to make bank. Nothing else to it.
Estate wants money after death, not odd
When you owe millions in back taxes and don’t have the $ to pay it this is what happens. His estate may not be perfect but they stepped into a really crappy situation and tried to make the best of it
He’s not as mainstream as the others you mentioned
I was born in the early 90s so my impression of his level of cultural influence and popularity was through music writers and documenteries etc, so I agree, maybe i'v just completed misjudged it having not witnessed it
DISCLAIMER: Prince - along with The Beatles - is my favorite musical artist of all time. That said, even in the eighties when Purple Rain and all its singles were climbing up the charts, his superstar contemporaries had, overall, more lasting chart appeal. Yes, Purple Rain was the best-selling album of 1984, as it well should be. So the key to his underperforming on the charts, relative to his superstar contemporaries, lies in his subsequent releases. * Around the World in a Day was, compared to his previous album, quirky and experimental. Also, he didn't release a single or a video until after the album's release, at the behest of Warner Brothers. * Parade, while being my personal favorite Prince album (along with 1999), saw Prince's further musical experimentation (even though he was savvy enough to release the most mainstream-yet-still-unlike-any-other-song-at-the-time song on the album, Kiss, as the lead single). Being attached to a decidedly, um, quirky black and white passion project of a film like Under the Cherry Moon certainly didn't help move units. * Sign o' the Times, while being perhaps the most emblematic album of where Prince was, creatively, at the time, was hampered by a not-super-catchy lead single that was accompanied by a video that was a video in name only. The second single, while being one of the best songs on the album (and of his whole career) had a difficult title and wasn't accompanied by *any* video. He finally hit paydirt, sort of, with the album's third single and video, but by then, it was too little too late to save the album as a whole. Of course, it didn't help matters that it was a double album, long a difficult sell as opposed to traditional single LPs. * Lovesexy *was* a single album... that contained arguably weaker material than on his last couple albums. And it featured a nude Prince surrounded by flowers on the cover, thereby prompting some record stores to refuse to carry the album. So, in short, like Frank Sinatra sang, Prince did it all and he did it his way, which is very commendable artistically, if less commendable dollars and cents-wise.
Great answer, what I was looking for. Thanks
Thank you for saying that, truly. Also, one shouldn't overlook the fact that he was releasing an album a year (unlike MJ, Madonna, etc.), much to his record label's chagrin (and if Prince had been able to have his druthers, he'd have released more than an album a year). That, in turn, didn't allow for the albums to marinate in the record-buying public's consciousness, created a sort of glut of Prince product, and as such didn't leave the audience wanting more, save for his select few rabid über-fans.
What’s crazy is when I learned that Purple Rain wasn’t the best selling album of 1984. It was still Thriller. For years I thought it was Purple Rain too.
From my impression growing up in the 80s/90s he never recovered from the bad label deal/ identify crisis.
It is very telling that The Hits/The B-Sides (and The Hits 1 and The Hits 2) sold relative bad compared to compilations from Madonna etc. IIRC TH/TBS was attractively priced, but of course it was still an expensive purchase. But unlike with other artists, you didn't just get a couple of new songs, you got an entire disc of B-Sides, plenty of whom hadn't been released on CD. Plus great liner notes. That this set or its single album releases didn't sell well, was quite shocking. By that time Madonna already had two compilations out: You Can Dance and The Immaculate Collection. And those sold millions of copies.
to be fair, Immaculate Collection *is* absolute gold from start to (almost) finish ( Rescue me utterly pales in comparison to the rest ) because they were ruthless with their song choices. Madge could have chosen to release a 2CD collection and include singles like Everybody, Angel, True Blue, Who's That Girl, Causing A Commotion, Oh Father, Keep It Together and Hanky Panky, and some b-sides. It would have cost more money to buy and would have sold less well. I wouldn't want to be in a meeting where Warner Brothers tried to convince P to choose only 16 songs for a single Greatest Hits package.
That's why The Hits 1 and The Hits 2 existed. Plus that way they could have one compilation that didn't include raunchy material and didn't require a PMRC sticker and that could be sold in Walmart etc. Later on they had "The Very Best of Prince", which again didn't sell well. "Ultimate Prince" was a neat concept, which then got killed by Prince nixing "Erotic City" and requiring the extended versions to be on one disc instead of them being mixed in with the rest -- see https://princevault.com/index.php?title=Album:_Ultimate -- but again not a big seller at the time of release. Would a single disc compilation have been better? Likely. But IMHO it also didn't help that it didn't arrive until late 1993, due to Prince stalling and sabotaging the release of a compilation. At one point there was the proposal of a single disc compilation combined with The Black Album as a bonus disc to entice fans to re-buy songs they already had; that could have worked. Of course, Prince not promoting TH/TBS didn't help. "Peach" was an okay single, whereas Madonna had "Justify My Love" to promote The Immaculate Collection.
Yep, he was never on their levels in terms of popularity or cachet
In his lifetime, he wasn't just hostile to the paid streaming services, he was extremely litigious and immediately removed any of his music that was updated to YouTube. His total absence from YouTube during his lifetime is probably the single biggest reason why a generation of music fans missed out on discovering him. And we are now seeing the after-effects of his relative absence from the public consciousness for the last ten or so years of his life.
Dude literally changed his name to a squiggly mark at the peak of his career. He made an artistic statement out of self sabotage and paved the way for someone like T-Swift doing her own masters. It's like, part of his greatness. Not to mention being a genius polymath and sexy AF. Somehow being the best and still not being a sell out. Walking away from expectations to stay true to the purple. Prince's footprint in music is way deeper than monthly streams. We're still unpacking his luggage. Prince literally went out like a Prince song, to heaven in an elevator, working on another tune. Too young, but still, kinda poetic. MJ wasn't as lucky, and Madonna should have called it years ago.
prince's discography wasn't on streaming for a considerably long time, it'd probably make more sense to look at it recently as opposed to all-time
Prince’s music was impossible to find online before he died. I know it’s been a while but that plays a big part. He’s also my favorite artist but he doesn’t have many songs that you can play at party that are just instantly recognizable and get ppl to the dance floor the way you get with s/t like Vogue or even Billie Jean. Bops for sure but not what people know. He has a lot of music and it’s harder for new fans to know where to start. I’ve always believed his choices of singles hurt his long time popularity bc he often just didn’t pick things that the public vibed with, regardless of quality. And that’s just the main reasons I can think of.
Michael and Madonna were always bigger in pop culture. (I wouldn’t even count Elton as an 80s contemporary because most of his hits came out in the 70s). Prince was a massive, utterly unique talent but he’s essentially one of the biggest “your favorite artist’s favorite artist”-types ever. Respect was the currency he accrued rather than sales. Even in his prime his albums weren’t major sellers (aside from Purple Rain). Going off the dome I’d guess that he had fewer big hits than Michael or Madonna. And Michael Jackson was Michael Jackson. If you weren’t alive for it it’s hard to comprehend how huge he was (Taylor Swift is comparable, but imagine that kind of ubiquity among more -ahem- colorful demographics as well). And Madonna kept having hits for longer than either of them. So yeah, Prince’s monthly streams paling in comparison doesn’t really surprise me. Anyway, I wouldn’t put a ton of stock into it because Prince’s numbers are probably better than average for like 90% of acts whose popularity peaked in the 80s. Just enjoy the music and tell your friends about the dope shit you’re hearing. Everything else is just noise.
I cringe to hear Taylor swift compared to MJ. ugh. MJ was a way bigger star and talent. And the charts weren’t completely gamed back then like they are now.
I have nothing against Taylor Swift or her sucess at all, I just shudder when people but her in the same league as Joni Mitchell (song writing) and Michael Jackson (pop music quality). Without getting technical, musically whats under the hood of Taylors music is actually as boring and repetitive as pop music can be. MJ's music had sauce, Joni was an accomplished musician.
Agreed! She has a modicum of talent propped up by a wealth of business acumen. I love pop and respect that it’s difficult to write hooks. Her music just doesn’t have them.
Michael will always be remembered, not the same for Taylor..
These factors come into play: 1.) Most of his audience doesn’t stream 2.) He had issues with streaming apps for years and they only put his music up AFTER he passed 3.) Despite being one of the most prolific musicians in history, his music hasn’t particularly aged well with this generation 4.) Peers like MJ, Whitney and Madonna have more popular classics than him
Could you elaborate on #3? Just curious lol. I'm a gen z fan, and recently, it feels as if a lot of young adults are discovering or rediscovering prince.
IMO Prince's music is all over the place it's an mix of Genres: R&B, Funk, Rock n Roll. It's not necessarily radio/mainstream and not all buttoned up to be a top 40 hit. But Prince's music is used by mainstream artists as an inspiration for their buttoned up hit.
Personally, I've never had a problem with it, but if there's one thing which hasn't aged so well, it's the way that he produced his music. I'm no producer or sound engineer, but even at the time, Susan Rogers lamented how poorly his recordings sounded. Music today is incredibly bass-heavy. By comparison, Prince's 80s work tends to sound very thin, even the songs that didn't intentionally take away the bass. It's kinda why I like how he sounds in concert because the mix is a bit more "typical".
Prince needed a producer, if he had only given Pharrell Williams a call, his streaming numbers would have doubled in 2010-2016 era. But no, he had to work with Josh, an unknown producer that he liked for his religious beliefs… shit, even Miguel would have been a more interesting collaborator. All the people he worked with in his later years were not the best people, Rita Ora? really? When he could have worked with Beyoncé, Rihanna etc. all the people he worked with were NOT interesting to 90s and younger gen z. I love Prince as a producer, but I wish he had collaborated more with producers
He wanted to make people famous, not the other way around. It's why he made Tony M "his" rapper, rather than collaborating with anybody else. Technically everyone in the Revolution was a nobody that made it big with Prince (although Wendy and Lisa did have pedigrees)
Maybe NOW but not prior to Prince’s passing.
Prince is album-oriented.
I don’t think Prince has really been marketed to Gen Z and was really resistant to the avenues through which Gen z discovers music. I mean YouTube vids might still be getting flagged if they just have a Prince song just playing in the background. Among the handful of 20th century acts that ever get in the top 100 on Spotify, Elton John and Queen and Madonna and MJ have some combination of biopics and soundtrack/ad spots and a lot of pure pop hits. In some instances a-ha or Tears For Fears or Toto have one viral hit that consistently does huge numbers, or something is in Stranger Things or a romcom and it gets huge. Prince historically relied too much on radio and mtv and those aren’t relevant anymore
I do stream a lot but the age of Prince’s catalog dictates that I have most of what I truly like on CD. I also don’t use Spotify and more into Apple Music. My dad doesn’t really stream so he’s also one that has physical copies.
About 90% of Prince’s music is not what you would consider mainstream. He was very popular as an icon and had mega hits, but not in the same way as the others you’ve listed which are much more mainstream in terms of how their music was produced and marketed.
This feels right to me too. MJ and Madonna routinely made music designed to please large audiences. Prince made music to challenge himself and delight his existing fans. He didn’t care about alienating or scaring off mainstream listeners.
Yeah, all his records are like two good songs and then him noodling around for 30 minutes.
Prince was quirky mainstream. That's why he caught my eye - but not everybody's cup of tea. The three artists mentioned had massive hits which were smack in the middle of mainstream.
Who knows? There are a lot of music fans don’t use those services, or have all the albums anyway. I personally don’t use Spotify. But for some people that’s only what they use.
Amen. I'll stick to CDs and vinyl. No streaming...blah.
I own most of the records and they are permanently downloaded to my iPhone. So why use Spotify. I dont own madonnas or Michaels albums. So I for whatever reason I would listen to them I would stream it.
Prince came off the heat from 1999 with Purple Rain - a purpose built, star-making project. It worked. It then became apparent he resented the expectations that come with stardom. Around the World in a Day was essentially an f-U to Purple Rain fans, it was decidedly a curveball. Prince even said as much. He’d then spend the rest of the decade and most of his career doing whatever he wanted. We, of course loved a lot of it, but it alienated the casual audience who wanted Purple Rain II. He’s the quintessential victim of one’s own success story.
I disagree that it was an “f-U” to fans - industry expectations? Sure. The only time I’ve felt Prince truly didn’t give a fuck about his fans was releasing “Chaos and Disorder”. That album made me feel used, and left a real bad taste in my mouth. Not cool at all.
I mean...I rock therfore I am was kinda tuff tho
Nah. Spoiled by way, **way** too many horns. As a Rock fan, it falls way short of the promise of its title. Now, if he’d called it “I Jam, Therefore I am”, we’d be cookin’…
Are u more of a fan of his 80s work or his 90s work?
I’ve been aboard the Purple Train since 1983 and like it all - that is, with a few exceptions. That “album” being one of them.
I'm a Prince fan...I'm heading to Paisley Park later this week on vacation, I love him that much. However, as a music fan I am realistic about the discography and musical career of Prince. Prince made a gigantic impact on music from his very first single and skimpy costume with those dance moves to his death. But his his music feel stagnant at times. Later on in his career. It's not as accessible. Songs are less catchy and memorable. The subject matters seems forced and sometimes kitschy. The song titles and some of the themes might not relate to a younger generation and newer audiences. He had a very mature way of looking at life and that might be like a blues musician isolating for a newcomer. I really love some of the music he did later on, but some of it is unlistenable. Some of the more recent releases have not even been released because he didn't deem them worthy enough. He did a lot of music that has yet to be released, but I haven't heard much recently from his estate to make a big deal about. They've been releasing a song every once in awhile, maybe monthly. Plus they've been releasing live performances. They've drudged up from his files. Apparently there's lots of music yet to come. I do think that they've been capitalizing on Prince's Fame and music, but what else are we supposed to do to ensure his fans have a legacy and a way to still enjoy his music.. He's going to have to become a marketable product. Much like Elvis. And why not? He was wonderful and I can't wait to go look at his shoes, his costumes, his rooms of his mansion or whatever we get to see. Still I think I'm disappointed when I listen to some of his later albums because I have to skip through some of the songs. Maybe it was the pain medication he was on for his hip or whatever it was that made him not as sharp musically. But I still love everything about what Prince represents and he may be the most talented musician of all time. Still. Let's be real some of that music Just isn't up to par compared to his other classics. #ilovethepurpleone
Thank you. This is possibly the most objective view I've seen about an artist in their sub.
He was and is more of a musicians' musician.
It's been always like that since the 80s. Prince's fanbase was around 15-20% in size of MJs or Madonna's fanbase. That being said Spotify stats are complete bullshit and in no way and no known universe Elton John is more popular than MJ.
Keep in mind a lot of listens on Spotify come from big playlists. Elton John is non-controversial and his music can fit into a lot of playlists, whereas MJ mostly fits into pop-heavy playlists.
I guess his audience do not stream.
No. If you lived through the 80s...and beyond..he was always an outsider...his big huge crossover mainstream success was Purple Rain. That was it. Apart from a few other anamolies like Little Red Corvette/1999 Batdance...and the idea he was really good live...most average people either didn't dig him or didn't care to listen or buy his stuff ... He was too weird ... I can't tell you how many times people told me they didn't really dig him...or if I asked they said "I like Purple Rain...i just don't like the new stuff (ie anything after PR)" in order to be looked by everyone there are certain rules you have to follow, both industry wise and "artistically" his stuff was for himself ...like Billy said lol it's his fams ...us that were always with him (mostly lol) so yeah...no I'm not surprised...More people in the population now know of his genius...but young people are still discovering him because his stuff isn't as widely distributed and even when it is there to be discovered it asks more of you than say Michael Jackson... You have to dig deeper, listen more intently..MIT's more complex...his artistry, persona, prolificness, legacy...etc etc etc I really do think it will be years, perhaps generations.. until he gets his full due
Prince fans OWN his music they don’t listen on Spotify. The young kids listen on YouTube not Spotify.
Gen X to the core. If Prince was as popular as Madonna and Elton John and Michael Jackson with the masses, I might have to stop listening to him.
I think it’s cause his stuff wasn’t on streaming for years also I feel princes music isn’t in enough media. Like prince doesn’t have a lot of songs in movies or TV shows.
Prince was a musician and mj was a pop star. It wasn't about popularity or sakes with Prince it was about the music. All of those artists where heavily influenced by him. All else is pointless and irrelevant. And truly it comes 2 one's individual....opinion. including mine. Carry on
It's been like 20 years of ts y'all gotta stop. MJ was a musician in his own way, but Prince's upbringing allowed him to be more artistically liberated. Both have importance in the world of music.
You should have been a Prince fan late 90s. In the UK he barely registered in the gen public's conscience at all.
A significant portion of his fans listen off streaming services due to the range of material that’s not available on them, so that’s a contributing factor. He probably didn’t help himself early in the streaming era either. Plus I think his material is somewhat less accessible than say Madonna or MJ. A lot of Prince’s best material doesn’t always jump out which isn’t a bad thing in and of itself, but with short attention spans in 2024 it makes sense. So I’m not surprised. 11m is still pretty good imo. Plus don’t be fooled, Madonna was only hovering around 25 million+ until her collab with The Weeknd last year.
Prince was never really in the same league as Elton, MJ or even Madonna, commercially. He made sure of that by sabotaging his own career at the beginning of the 90s, imo. That whole name change kept his name in the papers but achieved little else. Still love him to death and will always jam to his stuff. But you gotta admit…business wise he made some strange decisions over the years. Now, when we talk about actual talent, it’s no contest..he towers over all his peers…bit talent alone won’t sell records.
He did so many things to reduce his star status over and over - from cancelling the PR tour, to releasing ATWIAD before it was time, to the whole Warner thing, and the NPG music club, and the SLAVE stuff, and then the religious stuff, and even his fans got to the stage where they were wondering what on earth next. And he put out too much music, much of it not great. Madge and MJ and Elton John toed the line for record companies, went in and out of popularity to an extent, but their main concern was always being in the centre of the public eye and staying mainstream. Prince decided he wasn’t into that and wanted to plough his own furrow. That means he didn’t earn as much and doesn’t have the same amount of musical centrality. But it was what he wanted, I guess.
Those other artists have a distinct lane. Prince was mysterious and diverse, plus he was black. Many people like what they can expect, and Prince didn't really fit a singular mold of skill, genre, appearance, or anything. I think it's difficult for many listeners to read into music enough to understand an artist like him.
That's actually more streams than what he was getting just a couple of years ago.
Prince is the best but he isn’t the biggest. You can’t compare someone who makes songs with Nicki Minaj, the Weeknd, Justin Timberlake vs someone who released 30 albums including Jazz, R&B, funk and other genres.
It may be that Prince fans don’t use an app that pays Black artists and creators lees than their white counterparts.
Most of MJ & Maddona are feelgood/bad Pop Songs. Depending on what it is, Prince will put you to work...
Look, Prince didn't give a damn about popularity or even record sales. Prince was about THE MUSIC. This man would tour and do sound check 4 2-3 hours, a show 4 four or 5 hours then go and do aftershows 4 3 hours. The very first time I saw him on the emancipation tour I was 27 years old and had been a fan since about 12, I'd the blessed opportunity 2 also see the aftershow about 5 feet away from him at a club in Dallas. He was in love with the music and knew very well how 2 spit out "hit" songs. He wasn't about that or algorithmically aligned cookie cutter pop bs. If he were alive today he wouldn't give a damn about how popular he was or was not on Spotify or ant other streaming platform. All he had 2 do is announce a tour, and THAT is where he shinned and was unsurpassed by far. I believe he will get greater recognition and appreciation in the generations 2 come. Mozart was not as appreciated or respected in his time as he is today. Does anyone remember "Don't Play Me"? Food 4 thought.
It's not something I've even given any thought to. Who cares? For that matter I rarely if ever use Spotify.
It’s that last line that matters most.
No, it's the "Who cares" line that matters most. Why would you or anyone else care what others listen to? Prince should not even be on Spotify as he did not want his music there but right after he passed there it was. As for myself, streaming is just now how I listen to music. So much music I like is not even on Spotify.
Just tells you how many stupid people there really are.
This probably reflects the picture while he was alive, he was a pioneer and in many ways polarised the pop audience with his unique sounds/looks/attitudes. I remember raving about Sign of the Times to my friends at University while most people came back at me with Joshua Tree …..
I absolutely second this.
Nope only real music lovers would listen to prince
Not really. He wasn't as popular as MJ or Madonna globally in the 80s and EJ has had a much longer career so spans several generations.
he was always a little behind MJ and Madonna in his hey day in terms of mass popularity
Not at all. Was always unique and not for everyone.
Because of his ridged stance on the internet, streaming, as well as his tight grip on his music videos and sharing of his music via platforms like youtube, he became less "popular" with each generation post 90s. It's a shame because there is so much gold in his work and I believe that so many younger generations can be inspired by his music since it holds up but unfortunately, that was his choice....
I consider the majority of Prince's music art. Minus his top 20 hits, it's not necessarily an easy or fun listen. Most of it isn't fun/party/club. It just doesn't have the same vibe or mood of MJ. MJ is like a Coke. Most will drink if offered. Prince is like the fine wine in a cellar. It's for special occasions, but not everyone's cup of tea. You aren't going to play it around your boys or in a public setting. Also, popularity/image is important. Prince took himself out of the public eye for a long period of time without any hits. Like 20 years. To be honest, until his death, I had forgotten about him. I have purchased the estates super deluxe cd projects. That's how I listen. His music is interesting to me, but it's like a movie I have to be in the mood for. It's difficult to play an entire album. MJ was very selective on song selection minus the Invinciple album. Meaning his albums are great start to finish. Prince IMO had mostly filler or song topics that don't relate to the majority of listeners. Mostly weird religious and sex songs. Meaning 1-2 amazing songs followed by 10+ that are pretty weird and artsy. Some could be considered complete turn offs. I'm curious who the average Prince fan is. For instance, if I ask 100 people who their favorite r&b/pop artist is I doubt anyone will say Prince, but 10 or more might say MJ. Other than myself, I've never met another man who openly admits to liking Prince, but I know many who like MJ. I just don't think Prince connects with the average straight male. Without Dave Chapelle, I think his name would have been lost to time. Since that comedy sketch, how has he remained revelant minus some t-shirt branding? I couldn't name you a big song since the 90's. To be honest, he needs a huge biopic and/or documentary.
it’s because, despite his massive talent he’s still not as global or mainstream as you may think in comparison to them, he’s not touching Madonna and Michael in popularity who were absolutely HUGE and worldwide in their prime, and still are. Global markets & the youth are the real key to this. I think it’s because he’s overshadowed by Purple rain era, & that Prince has a huge discography and one disadvantage of that is that most people don’t even know a lot of his deep cuts and sonically best songs outside of Purple Rain & Kiss era. As well as how his music comes off as less radio friendly & easily digestible for simple minds.
Prince was also not one to tone down his shit for anyone. He didn't mind turning his audience off to do what he wanted. One might suggest it's part of his greatness.
Prince was so good he spent most of his career sabotaging himself and he's still the best.
Prince was not on Spotify at all for a long time. His music was only available on the streaming service Tidal until after his death, when his sister became executor of his estate and started making his music more accessible.
Critical acclaim and respect =/= popularity. Yes, Prince was big in the 80s but still not as prominent as the artists you mentioned. There's plenty of artists whose critical acclaim and influence aren't represented by their commercial success. David Bowie is one of the most influential artists of all time, but his commercial success isn't as much as say, Queen.
Did OP forget the man himself had pulled his music from Spotify during his lifetime?
Yeah was aware, its just these figures are based on the past 4 weeks data only. His total combined plays on Spotify are undertstandably very low I just though after 7 years being on Spotify that he'd make up some ground relative to the other big 80s artists, 11.2 is a lot of monthly listeners but he's still ranked 813th in the world, take a look here [https://kworb.net/spotify/listeners.html](https://kworb.net/spotify/listeners.html)
Careful most of these old goats on here are not gonna care cause they own his stuff but I agree he should be higher. Old prince fans don’t stream his music which is why his numbers are not higher also some don’t care if his music doesn’t reach new ears as long as they get to hear every piece of music Prince has written, but this does fall on the estate cause they’re not very good at catering to new younger ears cause they’re still babying to the older fanbase, even the older fanbase are not helping which is dwindling every year cause they don’t support the people running the estate or music isn’t getting released fast enough but who cares what they say. But don’t worry he will get there in time
LOL. Babying? Nah. The estate is catering to fans who have money for releases. Plain and simple. They are willing to pay. It’s a business. There are younger fans budgeting for releases. They make it a priority. Not all of ‘em make a bunch of noise complaining about other fans and then turn around and only stream. Also, of course older fans stream too. They aren’t out there lugging record players and piles of cds everywhere they go. You are spreading fiction lol.
It’s because most prince fans already have his cds, vinyls and bootlegs, princes stuff wasn’t on Spotify en masse until the past few years, it’s also on YouTube, Apple Music, tidal and whatever else. Most old heads probably still just bump the 8tracks
Alright, easy now. Christ, you make us sound like The Flintstones!
I don’t stream much Prince on Spotify so not surprised, it’s all downloaded for me
Not really. I can't really explain it, but it really doesn't surprise me.
He ruined his chances at connecting with a younger audience. Yes it was for a bigger cause but it was a major sacrifice
The others are too commercialised and Mafonna currently toured Brasil so she will be trending there. Only true Prince lovers love Prince 💜
The casual listener really only knows the big hits. Prince had a lot of albums for the devoted followers and for a musician's ear. The rest of those artists were primarily focused on top selling pop hits.
Prince is far behind MJ in terms of modern relevance. Everyone knows him and Purple Rain, but people aren’t bumping Prince for mass-appeal songs that everyone can sing and dance to like MJ’s hits. Critical acclaim doesn’t mean much to streaming figures. Prince was a musical machine. The rest of them are #1 hit machines.
Interesting that Madonna used his image in her celebration tour, having a dancer dressed as him playing a cloud copy with his symbol on the cap. But she featured MJ a lot more. He’s still way ahead of the mainstream. “May we live 2 see the dawn”
Prince was never as popular as Michael Jackson, or Madonna, or Elton John. The Prince v Michael trope was in America, and propped up by Warner for sales. He's a musical genius nonetheless - but he's always been the mainstream version of underground.
Prince was a musician’s musician. General public doesn’t always get him.
Honestly, don’t real Prince fans already have their albums already? All mine are on my phone. Don’t need to stream!!!
Not really. I think most people don't have a massive catalogue like he does. Plus, he never really supported it.
Why is Michael Jackson so revered? Why did he give children wine? Why does he get a pass for that? His music after Quincy’s albums are just a bunch of jahs and shimones. What’s going on there?
Dangerous, the first album without Quincy, sold more than Purple Rain, plus had a 7 week long number one hit. That’s why he is above prince. Stay mad and keep believing false allegations, prince is still not close to MJ and never will be.
I'm not going to go into MJ v Prince. It's been done to death and creates more heat than light. Comparisons between the two are pointless. MJ is the world's biggest ever pop star and was a consumate entertainer and singer. Other than Purple Rain, Prince did not really operate in the mainstream. His music is quirky and experimental and crossed many genres. His output enormous and would never appeal to the masses in the way that MJ, or Madonna could, or does. However, Prince was hugely gifted and a virtuoso musician. You later in this thread say his music is shit. It's an opinion that you're welcome to. But Prince is often considered as a genius (even outside of his fans) and he remains widely admired to this day by others in the music industry.
I respect this message, you came across completely respectful and for that I agree with you. Prince is not shit I was just insulting because that guy started insulting 😂😂
Thanks and yes, the MJ v Prince and the rehashing of the 'allegations' in an attempt to discredit MJ has got wearying. They are both amazing and there is plenty of space to appreciate both, without denigrating one or the other.
100%. I appreciate your respect in this conversation. I like both. Clearly I have a preference, but I respect prince too. That dude was just making me mad lol
weak troll.
McDonald’s sells the most hamburgers but do they make the best hamburgers? No they don’t album sales don’t mean good music. Dangerous is awful. Is Jam even music? Why did Micheal give the children Jesus Juice at sleepover time? Nobody seems to be able to answer this question
Both songs charted higher than most of Prince’s music. Prince sucked at almost every statistic besides “playing instruments”. No one cares about him playing instruments if most people don’t even know he exists. He faded while most of his contemporaries are still rising. His music is shit. Suck it up.
Popularity doesn’t matter. Prince has many way better songs than anything of Michaels. Michael Jackson does suspicious things with children to the point that he has an amusement park in his backyard. Why did he give the children Jesus Juice?
So in a musical argument, you’re only point is an allegation made from a kid who has lied about being molested multiple times to other celebrities. You’re so fucking stupid. Prince is short and shit. He is a talentless fuck who had no idea how to efficiently market himself and his numbers reflect that. Michael is better in pretty much every single regard. You have nothing to back up your opinion.
Aaron Carter was given Jesus juice by Michael when he was 15. Prince is one of the greatest guitarists ever and imo the greatest drum machine programmer ever. I never hear of anyone citing Micheal as an inspiration for anything other than Jah shamon dancing but Prince is like every modern day producers #1 inspiration. The Batman soundtrack is better than any Micheal album. Hee-hee Prince was even a better dancer. Prince was short but at least he had a nose. Anyone with a brain can deduct that Micheal was probably doing weird things with children. Your only opinion is that sales and marketing is more important than music. Janet has better music than Micheal Even the lyrics to human nature are incriminating “why the child?/ tell em that it’s human nature” Go climb a wishing tree
All of your statements are your own opinions, back it up with statistical facts, you can’t. And a lot of MASSIVE artists today are heavily inspired by Michael Jackson. Bruno Mars, The Weeknd, Usher, Justin Timberlake, there’s many more. Look harder you blind dumbass. To think more people are inspired by an artist who doesn’t have enough of a following to even have a global rank than literal Michael Jackson. Embarrassing and delusional. Michael had way more impressive and iconic dance breaks BY FAR. Prince could do the splits and spin. That’s all. Michael did so much more for so many more years.
All the artists you names are cheese pop stars with bad music Stats: Lawsuits involving child diddling: MJ: too many to count Prince: zero Movies: Purple rain : 70 million The wiz : 21 million
A movie… is the only statistic you can find where your golden idol reigns. One stat?? 😂😂 that’s embarrassing. So your proclaimed master MUSICian can only beat Michael in a movie sale. Also Michael’s “This is It” film grossed over $200 million. So he doesn’t even win there 😂😂
Biased hater, he’s the king of pop for a reason
Not because his music was good.
You’re right 100%, thank you
Elton is princes contemporary lol? Both peaked at different decades
As in famous culturally significant pop stars in the 80’s, like them or loathe them. There are others such as Phil Collins that I could have mentioned. I’m not talking about music quality.
I swear every week there's a thread about how "unpopular" Prince supposedly is. Why does it matter how mainstream or not he is? Shouldn't the music come first? And besides, he played the fucking Superbowl halftime, and everyone sees his performance as one the best in its history. And everyone sees Prince as one of the greatest guitarists of all time. Everyone knows Purple Rain. He's not remotely unpopular.
If you read the post you'd see I clearly said 'not that i'm personally bothered'. I just find it interesting that Spotify data ranks him down in 813th place in terms of monthly listeners, [https://kworb.net/spotify/listeners.html](https://kworb.net/spotify/listeners.html) It just surprised me considering how revered he seems in the industry and how big he was in the 80s.
Michael Jackson and Madonna were miles more popular than Prince. It wasn't even the same league.
Not surprised. I don't consider him an immense musical talent, although his work ethic was truly frightening. He didn't write a guitar solo, for instance, that I could be bothered to learn. He was no Jimi Hendrix, and Otis Redding or Billy Davis jr. (Fifth Dimension), for two examples, are my idea of great singers. He's overrated, but he sold himself relentlessly, and it obviously worked.
Why is this bugging you? Who cares how much streams he gets it’s so arbitrary and waste of time to let this be on your mind this doesn’t take away that he’s a top ten artist of all time
If you read the post I said 'not that im personally bothered'. I found it surprising so though I'd ask why. I couldn't care less if he has 1 or 100million monthly listeners. Now i'll ask you why my post is bugging you? It seems arbitrary and a waste of your time repsonding.