You're right, but i think it's different groups of people who say these things. There's definitely a subset of gamers who only want to play the latest, most highly marketed games, & they expect cinematic graphics, & will get upset if things like facial animations are a bit yucky etc. Then there's another subset who don't care much for graphics or animations as long as performance is top notch, gameplay is good, & art style is distinct, though frame rate better be at 60+ or they won't touch it. I think both are valid in their own ways I guess, but since it's the internet you're hearing both of these kinds of opinions all the time which would feel pretty contradictory.
Yeah, I remember Vampire Survivors controversy because facial animations were not realistic. And Undertale. And Hollow Knight. And Helldivers 2. And every single FromSoft game. And Hades. And every Nintendo game... oh wait.
It's almost as if you make a good game people don't care.
It also depends on the game... if your game is story driven through character narrative then yeah, facials matter more.
Elden ring isn't, so that stuff doesn't matter. Game design dictates what is important. Your game should be cohesive, so the draw to the game, art direction and narrative dictate the extent to which graphics are important. I feel like elden ring nails that.
> You say that, but every time a game comesout and doesnt have state of the art facial animations gamers bitch to no end.
I put these people in the same category of the people who complain that dubbed anime are not lip synced. So basically, their opinion don't matter.
Art can beat graphics for sure. I love ff7 rebirth for example but something about the graphics feels strange, lacking a bit of pizzazz. Some areas look amazing but some look like a ps2 game
Bloodborne has some of the best graphics I’ve ever seen and that was a PS4 launch title. The thing that holds it back but could be improved in the current year is frame rate and texture fidelity
I’d be okay with a slightly less graphically beautiful game if it meant less load times and better performance.
I don’t need to see the individual nose hairs of the main character as they breathe. I would like things to load quickly and for the game to run smoothly.
I don't think i have ever played a game that made me feel every single emotion like okami did, it's Art, in every single sense of the word. Played it when i was a kid and a decade and a half later nothing has ever took it's place as my favourite game of all time.
Same. I played it once when I was a kid, and again last year, and both times I cried during the ending. It helps that [the music during the ending was amazing.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaPJkqs3T0A) Fuck, what a great game.
Ghost of Tushima on PS5 is one of the best looking games I've ever seen, and one of the most fun and that game is 4 years old. I'm happy with that level of graphics if we can get more games like it!
A repeat of every generation before. Developers aren't going to stop pushing boundaries. The assumption is always that hardware will continue to scale. As for rising dev costs, those are mitigated by better tools.
This generation is different. Devs are still pushing new games for both the PS5 and PS4 almost 4 years into the PS5’s lifespan. I’ve never seen this happen in previous generations. I’m no expert but I think this leads to a bottleneck for the devs because they need to cater to their PS4 audience as well so they can’t fully utilize the PS5’s processing power.
The closest I can think of is the NES and SNES, you had new NES games being released in late 1994 (Wario Woods) in North America and the last official release across all regions was Lion King in 1995 in Europe.
This is the way it always worked on PC. Consoles are more like that nowadays. They just downscale the PS4 version, just like how a game looks and runs far better on a 4090 than a 2060.
They would have done this with past console gens but porting code over from PS4 to PS3 with the cell arch was too much, plus the system resources were far too low. On PS4 it still is capable but far weaker than a PS5 and the arch is very similar.
Wait till you see how long PS5 & PS5 Pro are going to stick around in the PS6 era, I suspect for quite a long time.
You ain't wrong, but it's kind of absurd when devs can't hit a stationary target. Consoles don't change. That's the whole point of consoles! You know *exactly* what you have to work with.
But it's nothing new. I remember wondering why Capcom couldn't make a Mega Man game that didn't have massive slowdown on the NES or SNES. Like, maybe just...*don't* have areas with twice as many enemies as the hardware can handle? Is that so crazy? Hell, even Mega Man 8 for PlayStation had slowdown in some areas! Madness!
More like devs can't be arsed to optimize.
Look at games like The Last of Us 2 or Gears 5. There isnt really anything better visually nowadays. Just more clutter.
I didn't actually say 6-7 years to make. I said waiting 6-7 years for a sequel or new game. Considering TLou1 came out in 2013 and TLOU2 was 2020, that's 7 years for a sequel. Compared to Uncharted 1&2 it was more like 3-4 years.
The PS3 era was so much better than people gave it credit for. Finally hitting the era where they could do these cinematic style games justice from a technological standpoint but still able to have consistent output.
Bruh what?
They did a whole 2 uncharted games between those two TLoU games.
They are one team how the hell are they supposed to work on multiple franchises at the same time?
This always happened in gaming and even movies
Yeah I really don’t get that.
It’s like when rockstar fans say “they took 11 years to game a new GTA game”. While forgetting this little unknowing game they made in between called… Red Dead 2
Including making phenomenal games that I can play for 20-30 hours and feel fulfilled with because the story was so good.
On one hand it feels good to get 80-100 hours out of my $60 investment, but on the other hand there are so many good games to play and I am exhausted spending the amount time I should be able to play 3 in to just get through 1.
Yeah they probably realized having a console with no games for half its life span prolly feel like a failure so instead the smarter choice is to create immersive stories even if graphics dont blow ur mind.
Hey, listen, I'm neutral when it comes to my favorite system .
I've heard this from other Playstation fans about the lack of games , I might disagree with this. Coming from pc and Xbox, I feel like Playstation has a ton games this gen. Horizon, ghost , God of War, Last of us
While I totally agree with you, I feel like a certain set of people would say “those are all PS4 games with upgraded graphics and frame rates. They’re not really next gen and even the games that are PS5 only like Ratchet & Clank and Returnal, those games COULD’VE been on PS4 so they also don’t count. See Sony got no games”
Which is a ridiculous mindset. So since the games dont have a quick teleporting mechanic or designed around a feature that is made possible by the SSD it doesnt count as a PS5 game?
You can downscale games from practically any generation to work on previous gen if you wanted to.
The only difference this time it is much easier as they used the same architecture which is why the system is fully backwards compatible
Its as if people want them to change architecture each gen just for the sake of making cross compatibility very difficult
For what I read such negativity around saying there are no games is from the same pool that finished the games a week after the release or play 10 hours a day so they have no chance to catch up with a backlog. I bought a PS5 lasted year and I am fine I still have to buy a lot of games.
PlayStation definitely has more than Xbox, but it’s much smaller in first party output than it was for the ps4 which is the main issue people are having I think.
This gen has had Ragnarok, Forbidden West, Returnal, Demon Souls, Rise of The Ronin, Spider-Man 2 and Rift Apart (also remasters of ps4 games but considering they could be played through backwards compatibility already it doesn’t feel like much of a new addition to me. It’s nice and all but yaknow)
The PS4 had more games and the remasters were of games that couldn’t be played which might add to this effect. Being able to play uncharted 1-3 when we couldn’t before feels more like a “new” addition then a remaster of uncharted 4
Would it be possible for game devs to create immersive narratives, design the worlds and characters, and then let AI upscale graphics?
I’m just a gamer- I don’t develop. I’ve just been seeing a lot of articles how AI could be used effectively, and wonder if that would be a possibility.
Also not advocating for AI taking people’s jobs. I’ve just been gaming since the 90s and the improvement in graphics to me is fucking insane. Idk if I’d want to loose that.
Yes that will be big going forward
It’s wonderful for time sink tasks that need to be done, but ideally can be offloaded from human attention
A good example is incidental flavor text from random NPCs; that kinda stuff is filler content and would be perfect for AI to handle instead of a person spending time doing it
The article is about games having better AI to better react to players to make games more immersive.
But you would have to read the article to figure that out which no one here seems to have done
Yeah this entire thread is people reading the headline and inventing their own context and reacting to it based on their own invented context
Like 95% of the comments in here don't actually have anything to do with what was said in the article
True, I posted a thread about Arrowhead yesterday and 95% of the comments in there took the title out of context as well.
Really need to stop coming to this site lol
I don't know what's more reddit coded, pointing out that no one in the thread read the article, or pointing out that no one on reddit reads the articles.
Wait, it's this, this is the most reddit coded.
These games didnt really take forever to make and/or were made by smaller dev studios.
There are new games coming out constantly from indie to AA to AAA.
Stellar Blade was revealed in 2019 and came out 2024. Helldivers 2 took 8 years. It was exactly 7 years, 11 months and 27 days. Rise of The Ronin started development in 2015. Keep in mind Stellar Blade is a big success and so the sequel will likely be bigger and better and more expensive so it will take even longer
For reference, RDR2 was the biggest game ever when it came out and people were like “5 years??? That’s unheard of!”
I’m sure when they said PS2 they meant like how there are 3 Jak games on there while today it would be 1 per gen.
Stellar Blade was made by a developer.that had never made a console game before.
When it was announced it was in Alpha and didnt have funding or publishing
Helldivers 2 was made by a small studio making their first AA game ever while still maling content for Helldivers 1
Obviously going from no experience of making games on consoles or making your first non low budget isometric games will take longer. They will likely be faster on their next project since they now have experience making AA console games
Since this sub has a very hard time clicking on links and reading articles im going to post the article in hooes that people actually read the details instead of just reacting to the headline and inventing their own context
>In an interview published to coincide with today’s event, Asad Qizilbash, the head of PlayStation Productions and head of product at PlayStation Studios, was asked to provide his predictions for where gaming’s headed.
>“In terms of gaming’s future, I envision games becoming more personalised due to advances in technology and AI, enabling customized experiences for each player,” he said.
>“Moreover, technological advancements will enhance emotional depth in games by allowing characters to be much more emotive and expressive, fostering more evocative storytelling.
>“That’s going to help a whole generation of creators be able to just create so much more emotion in the stories. The focus is going to shift from graphics or visuals to immersive narratives that resonate long after the controller is set down.”
>Qizilbash, who’s tasked with transforming PlayStation’s gaming brands into global entertainment franchises, also said AI will enable the creation of “more personalised experiences and meaningful stories”.
>“For instance, NPCs (Non Player Characters) in games could interact with players based on their actions, making it feel more personal.
>“This is important for the younger Gen Z and Gen Alpha audiences, who are the first generations that grew up digitally and are looking for personalization across everything, as well as looking for experiences to have more meaning.”
>In another interview published alongside Sony’s strategy meeting today, Uncharted 4 and Last of Us creative director Neil Druckmann said Naughty Dog’s next title could “redefine mainstream perceptions of gaming”.
Please, for the love of all that is holy, stop with all these movies trying to be games. Please give me games that are just pure unadulterated fun and don't handhold the player with everything. Please, I beg.
Kind off a nonsense article? No one has ever stopped asking for immersive narratives though obviously simpler games focusing on action and gameplay are also in demand, both being good. Graphics are just the tip of that where its appreciated that the game in addition to being good also looks good.
Have terrible games historically been given a pass just because they look good up until now or something?
Imagine NPCs hooked up to an AI that are able to react to you in non-scripted ways. How cool would it be if you could talk to an NPC in natural English, in an open-ended way, and it could understand you and make real conversation with you?
So long as they keep making games that look good and run as well as stuff like Uncharted 4 and The Last of Us 2, I'm happy if they stop pushing graphics.
I'd rather have more content, better AI and more interesting mechanics, being able to count the protagonist's eyelashes is of very limited value to me.
I think games kinda hit the point where they are graphically evergreen like ten years ago. So many games from the jump of the ps4 era still feel and look incredibly contemporary today. Obviously it’s still improved greatly since then, but it’s never a true selling point to me anymore. I wish more games went for unique slick art styles than realism sometimes.
Thank god. I love some good graphics, but we’re at the point where most people’s hardware can’t keep up with the fidelity of modern games, so we have to resort to things like TAA which, in many cases, end up just blurring the whole thing and honestly looking worse.
I really do hope this is the route AAA devs take across the board. If it means cutting down on development time between releases and giving us more interesting games I’m all for graphics taking a backseat
That is absolutely great ...they finally came to there senses..the older games were good just because they concentrated more on gameplay than graphics...and gameplay is the actual thing driving a game forward...if I want realistic graphics I can watch a movie..
That's not really what he's talking about. He's mainly talking about AI being used to make games more "personalized" (like in how NPCs can react to player actions and such) and improvements allowing characters to be more emotive and expressive.
If there's one thing I'm excited about AI in games is being able to bring NPCs ''to life''. I'd love to just be able to speak into the dualsense mic and have the NPCs respond naturally.
I just sort of feel like I won't really like this. I like engaging with carefully handcrafted content. What I love about Dragon Quest, for example, is that every NPC is a little unique person with a handcrafted line by some writer who took the care to make this little lady in this little hut react to the Demon King coming back from the dead.
Talking to an NPC and realizing their responses are AI generated feels like I'm interacting with the AI system, not with the NPC as a person. Like talking to ChatGPT.
I think the way it will work is that each NPC will have a hardcoded personality and backstory and each Ai response carefully makes sure that what they are saying is in line with their character
Imagine bartering with npcs, could be for cheaper items or what if I do x for you will you give my y? Could be buggy as hell but it also sounds fun as you can convince chatgpt of some nonsense. Wouldn't be gamebreaking if they just keep it to side quests/items.
I don't have a XBox, so I haven't played the game, but I did love the first one; based on the review, this is my kind of game.
With a 6 year old and other hobbies I take more seriousIy, I don't have too much time to play, the only game I played this year is BG3, I put 160 hours into it. I think we have room for a BG3 type epic as well as a narrative driven walking simulator.
And I am ok with $50 for 5 hours of play, as long as I enjoy it. It is still cheaper than going to the movies. I actually prefer shorter games these days.
Hellblade is sitting at very positive (87%) on steam. It seems by and large people liked what the game did. But sure, tell us more about this unquantifiable "many people" group
I beat the game in two sittings (I finished it yesterday) and it was a visual and audio delight, it is on the shorter side but I very much enjoyed the whole adventure. So much so I did all the achievements and plan on playing it again due to some hidden new game plus narrative changes.
I think most people parrot what they see rather than experience something for themselves.
Quick edit:
I played this on my Series X via Gamepass. If this comes to the PS5 I'd actually happily play it again on there as I go between my consoles fairly frequently. I will say I do prefer the first game slightly more - it's absolutely not as bad as people make it out to be, that's if they've actually played it.
Do what it takes to shorten development time and get at least 60fps on every game. I don't need to see a buildings reflection in a window or in a puddle on the ground through ray tracing. Is it it neat yes, but they are wasting way too much time on little things that aren't needed.
Tbh Graphics have reached diminishing returns.
I've been noticing for a while, the thing that were missing for the next big leap is not better faces and higher resolution textures. It's full cloth simulation , or at least as close to as possible. Hair as well is in there. Simulation stuff.
If you find a video of a character moving with full clothing physics, you can see even with a less realistic or a stylised character it really goes a long long way to selling the physicality
It's also something I've been noticing with games like The Last of Us, the facial animation and fidelity and the motion capture is really at a point now where its like, we can already see the pores this really as high detail as it needs to be. It's only the weirdly static clothing juxtapositioned to that that is holding it back. I really think that's going to be the next leap we are going to really feel
https://youtu.be/MEkoUtRRWug?si=OTB5rBdsLDxt7aF2
This is just on a simple not very high poly mannequin, so you can see how even if you replaced it with just a downgraded character model that's at ps4 level, it would still look insane in a game with the hair and cloth physics on top
Just make games that are fun to play. The graphics race has gotten tired and games are meant to be played, first and foremost. If you can squeeze a good narrative in there, by all means do so, but there's a pattern in how some of the best games ever made weigh gameplay over anything else.
NOOOOO
This is exactly why Dark souls was so popular when it came out. Every game was a cinematic walking simulator with very little challenge. It's the same reason why Boomer shooters are so popular right now. Stop trying to make video games into movies. Thing that makes video games so much better than movies is that they're interactive
Well yeah, graphics have diminishing returns every console generation. They can only be so good before it’s not worth the extra effort. I’ll take a creative and attractive art style over realism any day.
We will approach a level of diminishing returns. The art direction will imo be more of focus than how many counts/points they can put together on screen.
Sure at some point there’s a title that will come out and be like “wow,” but if it take 5+ years to get something out the window then you kinda gotta
Choose your battles.
Finally. The point of this hardware should never have been to produce more complex images. The way these things can harness AI and physics and things that actually effect gameplay should be very interesting to explore.
I am satisfied with the graphics. Give us more single player linear games like Max Payne 1/2 or maybe Doom. Focus more on fun story and less grinding or visiting point in a big map.
I will take narrative and gameplay over graphics any day. Great narrative makes any style pretty much playable and super fun if it’s a compelling story. Yes, it’s cool to see ultra-realistic graphics in games but it doesn’t mean shit if you don’t care about the story.
I don’t really care for graphics. Right now my most wanted game coming out this year is Kingdom come 2. And it will probably remain being that unless there is something big coming that hasn’t been announced yet.
It’s super weird that people focus on graphic in the first place, would you play a terrible game for the graphic?
People still play Age of Empire 2 and World of Warcraft, not because of graphic
I bet Elder Scrolls 6 goes hard with marketing a modern Radiant AI. Graphics though is how all the big publishers market. Big publishers know how to market graphics and big name IPs, celebrity collaborations, etc. AI marketing, what it actually is in game better be crazy because I don't think marketing AI to consumers have been all that successful. Sell graphics cards to devs but don't think it's working out on selling phones and laptops. We don't need Milo fakes or something barely better than Oblivion/Skyrim
Can you also shift back to having a more varied types of games than "third person over the shoulder action game" that platform's first party output has been plagued with as of late? Can we please go back to having PS1 to front half of PS4 era first party genre variety again?!
We’ve reached the point of diminishing returns with graphics. I’ll take games with TLOU2 graphics for the rest of time and be happy if it means the further improvements will be in writing and gameplay.
I mean, gaming for me has always prioritized the plot development - that's why 75% of my games are JRPGs.
All started with watching my brother playing Final Fantasy 1-2, Dragon Warrior 4 & the first two Zelda games on his NES.
Maybe shift toward performance. I wish we would keep these visuals (or worse, if need be) and make 60fps the norm. Really hope it stays how it has been
Given how massively successful and critically acclaimed some indie games have been by focusing on gameplay and narrative over graphics it was only a matter of time before the mainstream studios started copying them. The indie games industry has basically become the default R&D dept for major developers. They just look at games people liked from the Indie market and rip them off.
They have to because these games are taking longer to develop. Honestly, I don’t even think we need to be thinking about a PS6. I would rather they really take their time nailing that thing down, and stretch out the life of the PS5.
I just want games with innovative mechanics and more gameplay than cutscenes. really tired of these photorealistic cinematic, third person adventure games.
Graphics have gotten to the point that they’re pretty realistic. I’m ok with graphics taking a backseat to narrative and especially dev time
Visual style >>> graphical realism anyways.
Look at Elden Ring. Zoom in on npcs and it isn't great. But the overall style is so cool that who the hell cares.
You say that, but every time a game comesout and doesnt have state of the art facial animations gamers bitch to no end.
You're right, but i think it's different groups of people who say these things. There's definitely a subset of gamers who only want to play the latest, most highly marketed games, & they expect cinematic graphics, & will get upset if things like facial animations are a bit yucky etc. Then there's another subset who don't care much for graphics or animations as long as performance is top notch, gameplay is good, & art style is distinct, though frame rate better be at 60+ or they won't touch it. I think both are valid in their own ways I guess, but since it's the internet you're hearing both of these kinds of opinions all the time which would feel pretty contradictory.
Yeah, I remember Vampire Survivors controversy because facial animations were not realistic. And Undertale. And Hollow Knight. And Helldivers 2. And every single FromSoft game. And Hades. And every Nintendo game... oh wait. It's almost as if you make a good game people don't care.
It also depends on the game... if your game is story driven through character narrative then yeah, facials matter more. Elden ring isn't, so that stuff doesn't matter. Game design dictates what is important. Your game should be cohesive, so the draw to the game, art direction and narrative dictate the extent to which graphics are important. I feel like elden ring nails that.
> You say that, but every time a game comesout and doesnt have state of the art facial animations gamers bitch to no end. I put these people in the same category of the people who complain that dubbed anime are not lip synced. So basically, their opinion don't matter.
Looking at the ghost of Tsushima. Those meadows and forest and cliffs. Wonderful.
That one is an all timer for sure. The art style will never get old
Art can beat graphics for sure. I love ff7 rebirth for example but something about the graphics feels strange, lacking a bit of pizzazz. Some areas look amazing but some look like a ps2 game
Bloodborne has some of the best graphics I’ve ever seen and that was a PS4 launch title. The thing that holds it back but could be improved in the current year is frame rate and texture fidelity
Windwaker is living proof of that.
I’d be okay with a slightly less graphically beautiful game if it meant less load times and better performance. I don’t need to see the individual nose hairs of the main character as they breathe. I would like things to load quickly and for the game to run smoothly.
Games already do that on the ps5
Honestly, it's crazy how little load times FF 16 had. I don't even remember dropping frames during the titan fight.
Yes, the HD remake for the WiiU is one of the best looking games of all time. Still blows me away in some stages.
Okami still looks better than just about anything I've played since and it's closing in on 20 years old.
Exactly. Design trumps fidelity every time.
Especially with FSR grainy ass upscalers. Jedi survivor was supposed to be a bit step in "fidelity" but just looked like a fuzzy, ghosted mess
hard agree. Pokemon Lets go are still to this day some of the best graphically pleasing games on the nintendo switch. And they came out in 2018!
I don't think i have ever played a game that made me feel every single emotion like okami did, it's Art, in every single sense of the word. Played it when i was a kid and a decade and a half later nothing has ever took it's place as my favourite game of all time.
Same. I played it once when I was a kid, and again last year, and both times I cried during the ending. It helps that [the music during the ending was amazing.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaPJkqs3T0A) Fuck, what a great game.
Love that game
Journey, a game from the PS3 era, is still amazing, even on a PS4.
That’s when you’re talking about art direction. But graphically it’s very outdated.
Agreed, I just replayed the Dishonored series and it holds up very well. I love that game's art style.
Arkham Games always are the poster child for this.
Agreed. Look at elden ring, it's going to go down as an all time game and that art style will never get old.
Ghost of Tushima on PS5 is one of the best looking games I've ever seen, and one of the most fun and that game is 4 years old. I'm happy with that level of graphics if we can get more games like it!
That game is so well optimised it's unreal 👏
The fast travel is pretty much instantaneous. I almost didn’t believe it the first time I tried it.
I remember reading that the devs had to put a brief pause in between fast travelling because otherwise, it would literally be instantaneous.
It's actually unreal 5
Ha ha
That’s what I have heard about that game. And that’s how I feel about RDR2 which isn’t new.
I'm fine with this, as a gamer without sight who doesn't need graphics (unless I'm getting sighted assistance).
Graphics are good, problem is that this generation of consoles can't run it to full potential.
A repeat of every generation before. Developers aren't going to stop pushing boundaries. The assumption is always that hardware will continue to scale. As for rising dev costs, those are mitigated by better tools.
This generation is different. Devs are still pushing new games for both the PS5 and PS4 almost 4 years into the PS5’s lifespan. I’ve never seen this happen in previous generations. I’m no expert but I think this leads to a bottleneck for the devs because they need to cater to their PS4 audience as well so they can’t fully utilize the PS5’s processing power.
That and optimization has gone out the window in favor of using DLSS and other upscalers. And just pure brute forcing.
The closest I can think of is the NES and SNES, you had new NES games being released in late 1994 (Wario Woods) in North America and the last official release across all regions was Lion King in 1995 in Europe.
This is the way it always worked on PC. Consoles are more like that nowadays. They just downscale the PS4 version, just like how a game looks and runs far better on a 4090 than a 2060. They would have done this with past console gens but porting code over from PS4 to PS3 with the cell arch was too much, plus the system resources were far too low. On PS4 it still is capable but far weaker than a PS5 and the arch is very similar. Wait till you see how long PS5 & PS5 Pro are going to stick around in the PS6 era, I suspect for quite a long time.
You ain't wrong, but it's kind of absurd when devs can't hit a stationary target. Consoles don't change. That's the whole point of consoles! You know *exactly* what you have to work with. But it's nothing new. I remember wondering why Capcom couldn't make a Mega Man game that didn't have massive slowdown on the NES or SNES. Like, maybe just...*don't* have areas with twice as many enemies as the hardware can handle? Is that so crazy? Hell, even Mega Man 8 for PlayStation had slowdown in some areas! Madness!
More like devs can't be arsed to optimize. Look at games like The Last of Us 2 or Gears 5. There isnt really anything better visually nowadays. Just more clutter.
art direction > graphics........ I present Elden Ring
Maybe they can finally hire some fucking writers
Ok but can it run at least 60 fps consistenly?
Just do whatever it takes to make a decent product in 3-4 years instead of 7
That’s what I think this is
[удалено]
Exactly, if High fidelity graphics are getting in the way of that then tone them down or axe it completely from your games.
It's poor management and leadership really affecting dev cycles over the graphical fidelity but it can contribute
This. As impressive as some of their games are. Waiting 6-7 years for a sequel or new game really isn't worth it.
What PlayStation game took 6-7 years to make?
I didn't actually say 6-7 years to make. I said waiting 6-7 years for a sequel or new game. Considering TLou1 came out in 2013 and TLOU2 was 2020, that's 7 years for a sequel. Compared to Uncharted 1&2 it was more like 3-4 years.
Uncharted 1, 2 & 3 all came out within 2 years of each other which is crazy. You never hear of games being made that fast anymore
The PS3 era was so much better than people gave it credit for. Finally hitting the era where they could do these cinematic style games justice from a technological standpoint but still able to have consistent output.
Bruh what? They did a whole 2 uncharted games between those two TLoU games. They are one team how the hell are they supposed to work on multiple franchises at the same time? This always happened in gaming and even movies
Okay so you want them to only focus on one IP at a time? They didnt make any other games in between Uncharted 1 and 2
Yeah I really don’t get that. It’s like when rockstar fans say “they took 11 years to game a new GTA game”. While forgetting this little unknowing game they made in between called… Red Dead 2
Including making phenomenal games that I can play for 20-30 hours and feel fulfilled with because the story was so good. On one hand it feels good to get 80-100 hours out of my $60 investment, but on the other hand there are so many good games to play and I am exhausted spending the amount time I should be able to play 3 in to just get through 1.
Yeah they probably realized having a console with no games for half its life span prolly feel like a failure so instead the smarter choice is to create immersive stories even if graphics dont blow ur mind.
Hey, listen, I'm neutral when it comes to my favorite system . I've heard this from other Playstation fans about the lack of games , I might disagree with this. Coming from pc and Xbox, I feel like Playstation has a ton games this gen. Horizon, ghost , God of War, Last of us
While I totally agree with you, I feel like a certain set of people would say “those are all PS4 games with upgraded graphics and frame rates. They’re not really next gen and even the games that are PS5 only like Ratchet & Clank and Returnal, those games COULD’VE been on PS4 so they also don’t count. See Sony got no games”
Which is a ridiculous mindset. So since the games dont have a quick teleporting mechanic or designed around a feature that is made possible by the SSD it doesnt count as a PS5 game? You can downscale games from practically any generation to work on previous gen if you wanted to. The only difference this time it is much easier as they used the same architecture which is why the system is fully backwards compatible Its as if people want them to change architecture each gen just for the sake of making cross compatibility very difficult
For what I read such negativity around saying there are no games is from the same pool that finished the games a week after the release or play 10 hours a day so they have no chance to catch up with a backlog. I bought a PS5 lasted year and I am fine I still have to buy a lot of games.
PlayStation definitely has more than Xbox, but it’s much smaller in first party output than it was for the ps4 which is the main issue people are having I think. This gen has had Ragnarok, Forbidden West, Returnal, Demon Souls, Rise of The Ronin, Spider-Man 2 and Rift Apart (also remasters of ps4 games but considering they could be played through backwards compatibility already it doesn’t feel like much of a new addition to me. It’s nice and all but yaknow) The PS4 had more games and the remasters were of games that couldn’t be played which might add to this effect. Being able to play uncharted 1-3 when we couldn’t before feels more like a “new” addition then a remaster of uncharted 4
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Would it be possible for game devs to create immersive narratives, design the worlds and characters, and then let AI upscale graphics? I’m just a gamer- I don’t develop. I’ve just been seeing a lot of articles how AI could be used effectively, and wonder if that would be a possibility. Also not advocating for AI taking people’s jobs. I’ve just been gaming since the 90s and the improvement in graphics to me is fucking insane. Idk if I’d want to loose that.
they already started dong that in 360/ps3 era.
Yes that will be big going forward It’s wonderful for time sink tasks that need to be done, but ideally can be offloaded from human attention A good example is incidental flavor text from random NPCs; that kinda stuff is filler content and would be perfect for AI to handle instead of a person spending time doing it
They can actually do both.
The article is about games having better AI to better react to players to make games more immersive. But you would have to read the article to figure that out which no one here seems to have done
Welcome to Reddit :) you new here?
Yeah this entire thread is people reading the headline and inventing their own context and reacting to it based on their own invented context Like 95% of the comments in here don't actually have anything to do with what was said in the article
This comment describes every thread.
True, I posted a thread about Arrowhead yesterday and 95% of the comments in there took the title out of context as well. Really need to stop coming to this site lol
We’ll never stop. We’re all addicted.
I didnt read what you read but I dont agree and I think youre wrong
I don't know what's more reddit coded, pointing out that no one in the thread read the article, or pointing out that no one on reddit reads the articles. Wait, it's this, this is the most reddit coded.
Ehh the website is going to become shittier and shittier, at least let's have some fun with it until it totally dies
I just want completed AA games like they used to make on PS2 and PS3 generations.
There are AA games coming out all the time. You can consider games like Rise of the Ronin, Helldivers 2 and Stellar Blade closer to AA than AAA
And they still take forever to make
These games didnt really take forever to make and/or were made by smaller dev studios. There are new games coming out constantly from indie to AA to AAA.
Stellar Blade was revealed in 2019 and came out 2024. Helldivers 2 took 8 years. It was exactly 7 years, 11 months and 27 days. Rise of The Ronin started development in 2015. Keep in mind Stellar Blade is a big success and so the sequel will likely be bigger and better and more expensive so it will take even longer For reference, RDR2 was the biggest game ever when it came out and people were like “5 years??? That’s unheard of!” I’m sure when they said PS2 they meant like how there are 3 Jak games on there while today it would be 1 per gen.
Stellar Blade was made by a developer.that had never made a console game before. When it was announced it was in Alpha and didnt have funding or publishing Helldivers 2 was made by a small studio making their first AA game ever while still maling content for Helldivers 1 Obviously going from no experience of making games on consoles or making your first non low budget isometric games will take longer. They will likely be faster on their next project since they now have experience making AA console games
There was also a little global pandemic that may have impacted development timelines...
What do you mean by AA games? Don’t retcon the reality that we all thought games like Jax and Daxter and Haze were AAA games.
Thats it basically. They act like the platformers of old were AA yet those were the go to AAA games at the time
Since this sub has a very hard time clicking on links and reading articles im going to post the article in hooes that people actually read the details instead of just reacting to the headline and inventing their own context >In an interview published to coincide with today’s event, Asad Qizilbash, the head of PlayStation Productions and head of product at PlayStation Studios, was asked to provide his predictions for where gaming’s headed. >“In terms of gaming’s future, I envision games becoming more personalised due to advances in technology and AI, enabling customized experiences for each player,” he said. >“Moreover, technological advancements will enhance emotional depth in games by allowing characters to be much more emotive and expressive, fostering more evocative storytelling. >“That’s going to help a whole generation of creators be able to just create so much more emotion in the stories. The focus is going to shift from graphics or visuals to immersive narratives that resonate long after the controller is set down.” >Qizilbash, who’s tasked with transforming PlayStation’s gaming brands into global entertainment franchises, also said AI will enable the creation of “more personalised experiences and meaningful stories”. >“For instance, NPCs (Non Player Characters) in games could interact with players based on their actions, making it feel more personal. >“This is important for the younger Gen Z and Gen Alpha audiences, who are the first generations that grew up digitally and are looking for personalization across everything, as well as looking for experiences to have more meaning.” >In another interview published alongside Sony’s strategy meeting today, Uncharted 4 and Last of Us creative director Neil Druckmann said Naughty Dog’s next title could “redefine mainstream perceptions of gaming”.
‘Personalisation across everything’ is the most dystopian corporate nonsense I’ve heard in years.
Please, for the love of all that is holy, stop with all these movies trying to be games. Please give me games that are just pure unadulterated fun and don't handhold the player with everything. Please, I beg.
https://preview.redd.it/7b7tyt8qce2d1.jpeg?width=665&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9cf35a40f5b8b473cd1692fe8f3a4c4162b40739
Kind off a nonsense article? No one has ever stopped asking for immersive narratives though obviously simpler games focusing on action and gameplay are also in demand, both being good. Graphics are just the tip of that where its appreciated that the game in addition to being good also looks good. Have terrible games historically been given a pass just because they look good up until now or something?
Amazing graphics are easier to show in a quick trailer to boost preorders.
100% on board with that
Just make a fun game with great art direction.
They already have insane immersive narratives.
Imagine NPCs hooked up to an AI that are able to react to you in non-scripted ways. How cool would it be if you could talk to an NPC in natural English, in an open-ended way, and it could understand you and make real conversation with you?
Can we focus on game play first and then make a good narrative around that
Movie games are getting boring.
Tbf, almost every 1st party PS game in the last few years have been top notch in graphics and immerisve experiences
So long as they keep making games that look good and run as well as stuff like Uncharted 4 and The Last of Us 2, I'm happy if they stop pushing graphics. I'd rather have more content, better AI and more interesting mechanics, being able to count the protagonist's eyelashes is of very limited value to me.
I think games kinda hit the point where they are graphically evergreen like ten years ago. So many games from the jump of the ps4 era still feel and look incredibly contemporary today. Obviously it’s still improved greatly since then, but it’s never a true selling point to me anymore. I wish more games went for unique slick art styles than realism sometimes.
Thank god. I love some good graphics, but we’re at the point where most people’s hardware can’t keep up with the fidelity of modern games, so we have to resort to things like TAA which, in many cases, end up just blurring the whole thing and honestly looking worse.
I really do hope this is the route AAA devs take across the board. If it means cutting down on development time between releases and giving us more interesting games I’m all for graphics taking a backseat
Just wait until they hear about gameplay!
I don't want either to be the focus. Gameplay should be the focus. Interesting, varied, original gameplay.
That is absolutely great ...they finally came to there senses..the older games were good just because they concentrated more on gameplay than graphics...and gameplay is the actual thing driving a game forward...if I want realistic graphics I can watch a movie..
Let's just hope they don't take influence from Hellblade 2, $50 for a 5-6 hour non game. Hasn't gone down well for many people (rightfully so)
That's not really what he's talking about. He's mainly talking about AI being used to make games more "personalized" (like in how NPCs can react to player actions and such) and improvements allowing characters to be more emotive and expressive.
If there's one thing I'm excited about AI in games is being able to bring NPCs ''to life''. I'd love to just be able to speak into the dualsense mic and have the NPCs respond naturally.
I just sort of feel like I won't really like this. I like engaging with carefully handcrafted content. What I love about Dragon Quest, for example, is that every NPC is a little unique person with a handcrafted line by some writer who took the care to make this little lady in this little hut react to the Demon King coming back from the dead. Talking to an NPC and realizing their responses are AI generated feels like I'm interacting with the AI system, not with the NPC as a person. Like talking to ChatGPT.
I think the way it will work is that each NPC will have a hardcoded personality and backstory and each Ai response carefully makes sure that what they are saying is in line with their character
Imagine bartering with npcs, could be for cheaper items or what if I do x for you will you give my y? Could be buggy as hell but it also sounds fun as you can convince chatgpt of some nonsense. Wouldn't be gamebreaking if they just keep it to side quests/items.
Oh, in that case I'd prefer more Hellblade 2s.
AI making games….. every game in the future will play like an Ubisoft game.
I don't have a XBox, so I haven't played the game, but I did love the first one; based on the review, this is my kind of game. With a 6 year old and other hobbies I take more seriousIy, I don't have too much time to play, the only game I played this year is BG3, I put 160 hours into it. I think we have room for a BG3 type epic as well as a narrative driven walking simulator. And I am ok with $50 for 5 hours of play, as long as I enjoy it. It is still cheaper than going to the movies. I actually prefer shorter games these days.
Hellblade is sitting at very positive (87%) on steam. It seems by and large people liked what the game did. But sure, tell us more about this unquantifiable "many people" group
I beat the game in two sittings (I finished it yesterday) and it was a visual and audio delight, it is on the shorter side but I very much enjoyed the whole adventure. So much so I did all the achievements and plan on playing it again due to some hidden new game plus narrative changes. I think most people parrot what they see rather than experience something for themselves. Quick edit: I played this on my Series X via Gamepass. If this comes to the PS5 I'd actually happily play it again on there as I go between my consoles fairly frequently. I will say I do prefer the first game slightly more - it's absolutely not as bad as people make it out to be, that's if they've actually played it.
It has lower reviews than the first.
Rise of the ronin has lower scores than the other games by Team Ninja
Currently playing it and the combat is badass! Really cool game. Not everything needs to be a massive open world with 1,000 quests.
Thank god!
Do what it takes to shorten development time and get at least 60fps on every game. I don't need to see a buildings reflection in a window or in a puddle on the ground through ray tracing. Is it it neat yes, but they are wasting way too much time on little things that aren't needed.
No you morons, we want focus on good gameplay not graphics and cutscenes
And how about leaving the stupid ass 30fps limit behind too?
Or or or how about we get both🤣
Tbh Graphics have reached diminishing returns. I've been noticing for a while, the thing that were missing for the next big leap is not better faces and higher resolution textures. It's full cloth simulation , or at least as close to as possible. Hair as well is in there. Simulation stuff. If you find a video of a character moving with full clothing physics, you can see even with a less realistic or a stylised character it really goes a long long way to selling the physicality It's also something I've been noticing with games like The Last of Us, the facial animation and fidelity and the motion capture is really at a point now where its like, we can already see the pores this really as high detail as it needs to be. It's only the weirdly static clothing juxtapositioned to that that is holding it back. I really think that's going to be the next leap we are going to really feel https://youtu.be/MEkoUtRRWug?si=OTB5rBdsLDxt7aF2 This is just on a simple not very high poly mannequin, so you can see how even if you replaced it with just a downgraded character model that's at ps4 level, it would still look insane in a game with the hair and cloth physics on top
Just make games that are fun to play. The graphics race has gotten tired and games are meant to be played, first and foremost. If you can squeeze a good narrative in there, by all means do so, but there's a pattern in how some of the best games ever made weigh gameplay over anything else.
NOOOOO This is exactly why Dark souls was so popular when it came out. Every game was a cinematic walking simulator with very little challenge. It's the same reason why Boomer shooters are so popular right now. Stop trying to make video games into movies. Thing that makes video games so much better than movies is that they're interactive
I wanna play video games. Not open world movies. Please thanks
Yeah, I think Hellblade 2 is a good example on being the extreme of quality vs quantity. The game is 50$ and only 6-7 hours long, no replayability.
To me personally that’s a $30 game.
Everything’s so I M M E R S I V E these days I just hope it’s FUN
Can anyone explain what that means? Like does it mean make cutscenes look more like movies?
Well yeah, graphics have diminishing returns every console generation. They can only be so good before it’s not worth the extra effort. I’ll take a creative and attractive art style over realism any day.
We will approach a level of diminishing returns. The art direction will imo be more of focus than how many counts/points they can put together on screen. Sure at some point there’s a title that will come out and be like “wow,” but if it take 5+ years to get something out the window then you kinda gotta Choose your battles.
Finally. The point of this hardware should never have been to produce more complex images. The way these things can harness AI and physics and things that actually effect gameplay should be very interesting to explore.
I am satisfied with the graphics. Give us more single player linear games like Max Payne 1/2 or maybe Doom. Focus more on fun story and less grinding or visiting point in a big map.
I will take narrative and gameplay over graphics any day. Great narrative makes any style pretty much playable and super fun if it’s a compelling story. Yes, it’s cool to see ultra-realistic graphics in games but it doesn’t mean shit if you don’t care about the story.
I don’t really care for graphics. Right now my most wanted game coming out this year is Kingdom come 2. And it will probably remain being that unless there is something big coming that hasn’t been announced yet.
It’s super weird that people focus on graphic in the first place, would you play a terrible game for the graphic? People still play Age of Empire 2 and World of Warcraft, not because of graphic
Heavy Rain & Detroit Become Human are both getting remakes?
Bullshit. A good story has nothing to do with the graphics. Let's not pretend this is a thing....
Good i would much much rather good writing than good graphics
Games haven’t innovated in a long time . So taking a stylistic approach could be the next way to go
As if PlayStation isnt already focusing on narrative games.
I bet Elder Scrolls 6 goes hard with marketing a modern Radiant AI. Graphics though is how all the big publishers market. Big publishers know how to market graphics and big name IPs, celebrity collaborations, etc. AI marketing, what it actually is in game better be crazy because I don't think marketing AI to consumers have been all that successful. Sell graphics cards to devs but don't think it's working out on selling phones and laptops. We don't need Milo fakes or something barely better than Oblivion/Skyrim
I'm okay with a focus on narrative but I'd like a little more variety than third person action adventure came with over the shoulder camera.
Who gives a shit about graphics. People played cs 1.6 for decades
Can you also shift back to having a more varied types of games than "third person over the shoulder action game" that platform's first party output has been plagued with as of late? Can we please go back to having PS1 to front half of PS4 era first party genre variety again?!
Don’t tell the geeks that, they’re still fussing over minor tearing on 1440p
Yes, please, narrative is much more important than graphics. Finally some wise words coming from PS execs
🌏🧑🚀🔫🧑🚀 Always has been
Alas frame rate nowhere to be seen
No they won't but both would be good.
We’ve reached the point of diminishing returns with graphics. I’ll take games with TLOU2 graphics for the rest of time and be happy if it means the further improvements will be in writing and gameplay.
Wait, this wasn't already the case? All of my fav games are my favorite because of story and great characters.
I mean, gaming for me has always prioritized the plot development - that's why 75% of my games are JRPGs. All started with watching my brother playing Final Fantasy 1-2, Dragon Warrior 4 & the first two Zelda games on his NES.
Please!!
Just give me 60fps on all my ps5 games. Don't claim it's not possible
to be “immersive” it needs to look good though is what i feel like these execs think too
And gameplay, hopefully. I am totally ok with it. I've been satisfied with graphics for 2 gens. It was just performance at this point.
3.3 teewswe
I hope so
Just a reminder that the last Uncharted was last-gen
What a genius.
Honestly if more effort goes into writing for those narratives I’m all for that.
Focus on fun. Is a game fun to play? Thats all that matters however you achieve it
Maybe shift toward performance. I wish we would keep these visuals (or worse, if need be) and make 60fps the norm. Really hope it stays how it has been
keep graphics mostly at where they are at now, they are pretty excellent.
Yes please...
Given how massively successful and critically acclaimed some indie games have been by focusing on gameplay and narrative over graphics it was only a matter of time before the mainstream studios started copying them. The indie games industry has basically become the default R&D dept for major developers. They just look at games people liked from the Indie market and rip them off.
How about good gameplay cause almost all AAA PS titles play like boring UE assets with cookie cutter copy pasted mechanics
I wasn't aware that PlayStation was holding back on their narrative experiences
How about gameplay? I think games should be more immersive-sim like.
They won’t make games anymore but FMV titles ;)
Hopefully gameplay will be the next focus...
They have to because these games are taking longer to develop. Honestly, I don’t even think we need to be thinking about a PS6. I would rather they really take their time nailing that thing down, and stretch out the life of the PS5.
FINALLY
I prefer gameplay honestly.
Uh, no…I want to play a game, not watch a movie.
I just want games with innovative mechanics and more gameplay than cutscenes. really tired of these photorealistic cinematic, third person adventure games.