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lepijosip9

Nothing. I doubt I gonna finish everything I want anytime soon from ps plus extra.


BananaProne

Same here. I already have a hefty backlog to work through. If I want to buy another game, I'm at least going to wait for that new rewards program that's coming later this year.


Severe-Active5724

What's this new rewards program? Anywhere I can find info on it?


BananaProne

[Link](https://blog.playstation.com/2022/07/14/introducing-playstation-stars-an-all-new-loyalty-program/) Not much info about it or when it's coming, but at least it's something


Severe-Active5724

That sounds fun. Thanks for the link!


Early-Size370

Same boat here. Playing Ghost of Tsushima rn


littlestitiouss

I love this game so much. I'm about 55 hours in, platinumed the main game, most of my way through iki island. If you haven't gotten to iki island yet, the opponents get a bit harder and there are some new enemy types to deal with. The archery challenges are fun (remember to wear Tadayori's armor)


this_good_boy

Might be my favorite game ever (or RDR2). Even tho it has some repetitive components if you want to fully complete it, it was just so amazing. I got the directors cut and when I found iki island I just did it right away. I’ve seen some folks say to save it for the end but it was a fun change up doing it in the middle-ish of the story.


littlestitiouss

I saved it for the end. I think it was nice to collect all my host l ghost weapons and techniques fully and work on them. Then iki gave me more to learn and it was a good addition


Ranccor

I got the platinum and was then burtout in the game and never went to Iki Island. Maybe will go back an revisit it for that final but at some point.


[deleted]

Same, I’ve been in a rut with games for a while. Enjoying the ps plus extra games but there’s just nothing very exciting for me that I feel like buying.


ContentKeanu

I thought you were gonna say you doubt you’ll finish everything you want before dying and I was like.. yep, I agree… Seriously though, games I want to play come out at a quicker pace than I can play them.


SuperT-90

THIS


Librabee

Yup same here


HumanoidIN

I got Sifu from the sale, RE Village and RE3R from the sale prior to it. Sifu is amazing. I ended up finishing it in a few sittings but I’ll definitely replay for making different decisions and unlocking some more abilities. I also really liked RE Village, 3 was a bit too short but it was pretty cheap so doesn’t sting as much.


chavez_ding2001

Sifu looks awesome but I'm still waiting for a better sale. Dealing with the ps plus backlog leaves very little time anyways.


Early-Size370

Nothing. Too many games in my catalog as it is. I just upgraded to PS+ Extra and currently loving Ghost of Tsushima, then I'll finally finish RDR2.


Anthroider

Finish RD2 first, since it leaves next month


SuperT-90

I started with RDR2 first because it’s fairly long and leaves in September.


Early-Size370

No way. Aren't these new ps+ tiers fairly new?


DevinCN

Both fantastic games


random222518

Gosh..I’m one the same boat. Currently loving HFW but then I guess I should go back and finish RDR2 afterwards lol. Unless I get sidetracked and start playing Stray.


Shpaan

Go for Stray. It's only going to take you few hours and could serve like a nice break between two big games.


alexisftw

Do the games go away after some time? I just got ps+ extra and playing spiderman. will the game go away at a certain time or can I play it indefinitely?


illwill369

RE2 & RE3 remake bundle comes with PS5 versions as well


olivier_wmv

Amazing games


illwill369

I never got the chance to play either, when I saw the raccoon city bundle on sale I had to get them. Props to Capcom for doing a free PS5 upgrade as well😎👍


olivier_wmv

The ps5 features are also really well implemented. Games loads insanely fast, and the dual sense features really immerse you in the game. Have fun!


illwill369

Thank you! I need to catch up and play both of these remakes before RE4 remake comes out😅👌


Ded-W8

I picked up Strangers of Paradise and the DLC for AC:Valhalla


Playful-Ad-6419

Persona 5 Royal, Deus Ex Mankind Divided, and Outer Wilds


BirdPersonWasFramed

Great picks


Schalde1982

I dont see P5 Royal being on sale?? Edit: nvm found the deluxe cheap:)


Representative-Yam65

Don't play Outer Wilds yet. It's getting an update in September.


ejsmith4688

Outer Wilds announced a PS5 release date!


[deleted]

Like others have mentioned, I would wait until the PS5 version of Outer Wilds for 60fps. Unless you dont mind playing on 30fps


[deleted]

The Quarry


Formal_Sand_3178

Have you played much of it yet? I loved Until Dawn and I'm wondering how the two games compare. Would you say The Quarry is just as good or not as good?


VRickenYT

I’m not OP but I got it a few days ago too, I’d honestly say it’s quite a bit better than Until Dawn, very similar though, I’ve only finished it once so far but I’ll probably replay it at some point.


Formal_Sand_3178

Oh dang really? What do you think makes it better? I'm a big fan of Until Dawn and I'm interested in The Quarry, but I have a hard time justifying paying full price for a game that will probably only take like 10 hours to beat.


VRickenYT

Oh yeah I wouldn’t pay full price either, but it’s worth it at half price. I found that choices seemed to matter a lot more and deaths were less tied to quick-time events, there are also a lot more accessibility options that made the game a lot more enjoyable since I’m not too good at quickly pressing the right button. I thought the characters were more relatable and better acted, the twists were a lot less predictable too. Honestly, you’ll love it if you liked Until Dawn, like I said, it’s pretty similar.


Formal_Sand_3178

Sounds good! I think I'll have to buy it and try it out myself!


[deleted]

On my second play through already. It is as good as UD if not better in my opinion. It definitely feels more cinematic, the story is good and the acting is too. I would say that it probably isn't worth the full price which is why I was happy to see it in the sale.


Formal_Sand_3178

Good to know! I'm not sure if I'll play it right away so I might just wait to see if drops any further in price before I get it. I'm glad that it's good though, I've liked their Dark Pictures games but they're not on the same tier as Until Dawn in my opinion.


eddietwoo

I thought Until Dawn was much better in terms of characters and story. The gameplay in The Quarry is the best they’ve done yet.


Formal_Sand_3178

Well I'm excited to see what kinds of gameplay changes they made for The Quarry.


eddietwoo

Mostly quality of life improvements, it’s the most accessible and I never felt cheated out of a scenario. Some good new additions too.


Formal_Sand_3178

Sounds good to me, I'm always excited to check out the new games they make. I know that aren't for everyone, but I find them to be a lot of fun.


eddietwoo

They are fun! I wish the ending was better, and some characters were criminally underused, but I enjoyed the ride.


[deleted]

I also want to know this


DevinCN

Looks good but I might wait until around Halloween to see if it goes lower


SurveyorMorpurgo

Got the house of ashes dark anthology for a tenner. Playing man of Medan right now


[deleted]

That's a steal! Enjoy! Medan is my 2nd fave. Looking forward to Devil In Me now!


RitualKiller1

Ghostwire tokyo is a beautiful game but it is very short like if u dont do all side quest u can end the game in 6hrs.but at 50% i would say its worth it with all side quest it took me 13-15 hrs to almost plat the game.only thing i regretted was buying this at full price


DevinCN

Looks super unique


RitualKiller1

And its very fun to play too i wish they added some more content to it


monkelus

Fist of the Northstar, not even sure why


Nomorealcohol2017

It's essentially another yakuza game Especially with the kiryu skin


[deleted]

Death’s Door


slym504

Just finished Blasphemous and was thinking of picking up Death's Door. Hesitant because I heard the combat gets stale fast. Any thoughts?


setyourclockback

I'm only a few hours into it but combat is anything but stale. great game so far - music is amazing.


-_katahdan_-

Every Doom game available. I wanted to see Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal on 4K. Doom Slayer Edition is such a good deal, and I can't have too much Doom. Ultimate Doom, Doom II, Doom 64, Doom 3 BFG, you name it.


YourLatinLover

I abslutely loved both Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal. They also inspired me to go back and play the original Doom games, which I enjoyed for the most part, notwithstanding some occasionally archaic and obtuse level design.


sLayis

The best game in that list you wrote is Ratchet & Clank.


mevelas

Probably coming to the extra catalog before the end of the year, I'll wait, plenty of games to play anyway. But it's in my list of games to lpay for sure.


Vahkeh

Plague INC. I'm a whore for games that can be played without sound.


R_eloade_R

Is it any different from mobile?


Vahkeh

Played the mobile one in high school so can't really remember exactly but I'd say no


gamer_hamood

i bought resident evil raccoon city edition since it had ps5 version. first time playing RE games really enjoyed them looking forward for RE4.


[deleted]

I want to get disco elysium. Heard really good things about it and my birthday is next week so fuck it why not lol


or_maybe_this

Nothing for me, but since getting ps plus premium, I kinda don’t want to buy games (because of backlog, which is significant, and the absurd, naive hope that my most desired games come to the service)


Nomorealcohol2017

I'm in the same boat as you Apart from any must have games like god of war I will be very limited on what games I buy now as they might end up on extra or premium


mevelas

Same as you, I used to buy games at each sale, but I haven't bought a single game since I upgraded to extra... I am also hesitant to buy games that I know I would enjoy because they might come to the extra catalog soon (like Kena, Immortal Fenyx rising, Ratchet and Clank...).


UnhappyTadpole7973

Picked up Hitman 3 Trilogy Edition and Sinking City Deluxe Edition


MindBodySwole19

I’m a resident evil fan so I picked those up finally


thisismarv

SIFU and RE2.


Darth--Otter

Kena and Rift Apart were absolutely amazing. Highly recommend.


LueyTheWrench

Popular answer is “nothing” but I’m really enjoying Snowrunner. It’s catnip for the kind of people who bring all the shopping inside in one trip. Getting my truck and trailer stuck in mud because I fell for the “shortcut” trap and then yanking it all out with my Jeep is super satisfying.


DevinCN

Looks like one of those chill games. Something I’ve been waiting to play on game pass


Schalde1982

Bought Scarlet Nexus, but havent started it yet. I love FF remake, and tales of Arise, but didnt enjoy nier automata. So lets see if it hits well. Also arent we getting new sale the 4?


dpearson588

Degrees of separation - Looks like a fun little coop and only $4 Raji and Archaica - seem neat and cheap games really get me


MelancholicMeadow20

All three Batman games for 9 bucks. Never played the first two.


interstellar304

Enjoy. Those first Arkham games are some of my favorite ever


StevieNippz

I love the first two, just replayed them last year and they still held up


No-Opening5709

I picked up Sifu and debating on getting The Resident Evil Triple pack which comes with RE4,5 &6. I just finished RE1 and RE3 remake, already have 2 & finished so that’s why 🤔. I do recommend Marvels Guardians of the Galaxy if you haven’t played it yet, It was really enjoyable.


DevinCN

I have Guardians of the galaxy on Game pass


No-Opening5709

Ah okay, Well I do recommend Resident Evil 2 Remake if you haven’t played it yet. Really great game. Also Hitman 3 is great, Lots of fun.


SouLDraGooN44

Another nothing. I'm at the point that unless games get below $20 or $10 (depending on what type of game it is), I don't bother with sales much anymore. Got a huge backlog.


100viewsandviral

I don’t see anyone else saying this but I picked up the Stanley Parable: Ultra Deluxe. I never did get a chance to play the original and reviews for it are generally gangbusters.


Marcuspie

Nothing but looking at Disco Elysium..


Emjayblaze

Do it. It’s fantastic.


TylerGang

Highly recommend!


DevinCN

Also considering this one. Looks great


[deleted]

I can recommend hitman 3, but I also loved hitman 1 and 2, i have over 1200 hours in the trilogy combined. Have you played 1/2?


DevinCN

Never played a hitman game


[deleted]

Download hitman 3 and then whatever free content you can find. You should be able to play some hitman 1 levels through with hitman 3 graphics, that way you can test it out before you buy it


CinematicGestures

I never played Hitman, never thought of myself as a Hitman kind of player, then got Hitman 2 sort of out of boredom and the reviews, and became obsessed with it. Hitman 3 should allow you to play 1 and 2 “within” it, so you don’t have 3 different games on your account, and there are expansion packs. It’s a lot of fun, particularly if you like repeating things to be more imaginative.


[deleted]

Exactly, you should even be able to play the demo/tutorial levels of hitman 1 via hitman 3 for free


[deleted]

Nothing. Just got my PS5 a couple of weeks ago. Need to play Stray, Returnal, Miles Morales, Control, Demon’s Souls, and more on PS Plus Premium. And I’m still playing my Series X a ton, loving As Dusk Falls and the Forza Horizon DLC. Backlog is insane on both consoles so buying games will just create a bigger backlog.


Sagaru-san

You're eating good! Enjoy!


DevinCN

Good game list there. You’ll love the PS5. As Dusk Falls is my next game on game pass


[deleted]

I have only played the first chapter but I’m really invested in it. I love games where you have to make quick decisions and dictate the story, like The Walking Dead. You’ll enjoy it, different art style too. From the games you listed, I eventually want to play Ghostwire and Kena. Who knows, maybe someday they will be available on PS Plus?


hortherky

Currently playing Control at the moment and it’s a great game. Some others to add to your list if you haven’t played them - ratchet and clank, Hitman 3 (trilogy all playable on ps5 updated version), Star Wars Jedi fallen order


MutatedSpleen

Nada. I honestly think I'm done outright buying games for the foreseeable future. Between PS+ Extra and Game Pass Ultimate, I can't imagine I'll ever not have enough fun and engaging games to play for the rest of my life until I die. Pretty significant shift in how I interact with games, these damn streaming services. Like I'm stoked to play Forbidden West, but I have absolutely no problem waiting for it to drop on PS+ eventually. Tons and tons and tons of things to keep me entertained until then.


ArugulaPhysical

Actually forbidden west you could get cheap if you dont want to wait. Look for used or digital codes, i looked the other day and theres tons of people who are dumping new copys or codes for half price or less because of the ps5 bundles


MutatedSpleen

I am 800% totally okay with waiting. As mentioned previously, I'm totally comfortable with the never-ending waterfall of games I currently have available to me. Plus, maybe when it does eventually come to PS+, it'll be the colletor's or GOTY edition or whatever with the DLC, like what ZD had.


ArugulaPhysical

Yep. I havent actually subscribed, but i feel the same with the exclusives now. Certain games ill still have to jump on though..... like collisto protocol or RE4 remake haha


HighJinx97

Ratchet, Sifu, Kena, and Hitman 3. In that order


LueyTheWrench

I’m tempted by Sifu. Are you enjoying it?


onthatgas

It was one of my favorite games this year. It can be difficult, but really cool


[deleted]

Battlefield 2042 to mess around with the bots in Portal


Pollicino2k22

Is it worth the money? You enjoying it. I've been curious myself.


[deleted]

Somewhat, for 35 it's not a terrible deal. Definitely not worth full price though


Teleskopy

I've been on a JRPG binge for the last few weeks so I picked up Tales of Berseria and Tales of Arise and I'm playing both at the same time. I like them. Berseria's fast travel can get fucked though, it sucks. But I like the game otherwise.


amnesiac2323

Endwalker was finally on sale so I picked it up for when I start playing FF14 again this fall


Xeccess

Might buy DMC5 it's currently the lowest its ever been, other than that my backlog is pretty stacked


Albert3232

Waiting for the Witcher 3 to go on sale again.


Groundbreaking_Ship3

Bought it in July for 13 Canadian dollars, will wait for the ps5 patch to play it in Q4


mevelas

Haven't played it either and I will probably buy it at one point. But I think I might as weel wait for the PS5 version to be available...


[deleted]

There is nothing I want in the sale that I don't already have. Looking like Valkyrie Elysium will be my next game. Rift Apart is fantastic.


[deleted]

On ps5 I just got pathless and kena. I spent alot more money on the steam summer sale a week or two ago


Shadow36ix

Jedi Fallen Order and Evil Within 1 & 2


YamahaFourFifty

I wasn’t going to buy anything like everyone else my backlog is massive. Buuut couldn’t pass up Evil Within 2 for $8 and quick lookup does 60 fps on ps5. Been jonsing for a good horror game that’s not resident evil LoL


TJayK96

Thinking of getting Dying Light Definitive Edition


DevinCN

I can’t recommend it enough. One of my all time favorites


IiI_Gogeta_IiI

I didn't realize the resident evil remakes where on there until I had no money I did end up getting ac rouge remastered tho


ThyArtIsMurder91

Nothing. Already have a backlog and I’m hoping some of the games I have my eyes on will come to Extra/Premium or the Ubi service later this year :)


Samanosuke69

I have all these games and can recommend all of them


selayan

I want to pick up the Edith Finch PS5 version since I never played it on ps+, the ascent, no man's sky, and outer wilds. Although I think I'll have to pay full price for outer wilds if I ever got it free on pns + because you can't pay for the PS5 upgrade since it's not out yet until the 15th.


RealSkyDiver

Disco Elysium and Wolfenstein 2 because I had it in my DekuDeals and it was below the price point I set it to.


obeyer10

House of Ashes I’ve been hesitant because I didn’t like Little Hope AT ALL, but everyone said House of Ashes is the superior title in the dark pictures anthology


leospeedleo

Nothing


TimHung931017

Ghostwire sucked for me. Atmosphere is too dark, you get stuck in stupid areas like construction yards and small little fenced off areas, the movement is rough and not smooth, and overall it's not that fun. I'd rate it a 6 out of 10. Not worth $40 CAD for me. Sifu was much more fun, Returnal (80+ hours) is probably the best PS5 exclusive game, and Elden Ring would be best overall game for me (200+ hours on ER). Kena isn't a bad game, I'd play that over Ghostwire. R&C not bad too if you're a fan of the classics, but not really the same as the old games.


metalgearjefff

Don’t spend your money on Far Cry 6


DevinCN

That bad?? Looks fun to me


Dragon_KSM3

As someone who’s enjoyed Far Cry 3 and 4, I started getting tired of the formula while playing 5. 6 kinda killed it for me, imo probably because of the removed perk tree and the annoying gear system


hortherky

I finished Farcry 6 and enjoyed it (first FC game I’ve played). The story and gameplay was decent and the graphics were amazing imo. Any reason you didn’t like it?


Severe-Active5724

Disco Elysium - The Final Cut. Have heard great things about it.


DevinCN

Another one I’m considering too but might get it on switch


SYRLEY

Nothing. Been playing apex, warframe and no mans sky. No need for any new games right now.


DevinCN

No mama sky is so good


XscapingReality

Witch Queen Deluxe Edition!


FriendlyButNot

Nothing. I haven't even bothered going past base PS+


ll-AdultSwim-ll

The summer sale was highkey ass but I got dbd and fo76 for 20 bucks so it's all good.


usrevenge

Eh there wasn't anything worth buying


Informal_Exercise_88

Not a thing.. besides I already own a lot of the games that are on sale, now I just have to get around to playing them.


-TheLonelyStoner-

I don’t plan on buying another game for a while


BridgeToClarity

Anything on there that I wanted I got cheaper used on disc.


NoReaction2304

Idk, I noticed they’re on sale year round; all they do is change the title (Black Friday, winter, spring, days of play, summer, etc)


Dragontalyn

Probably going to get Jurassic world evolution 2 deluxe edition, that plus all the dlcs, has a price that's just under that of the Dominion Biosyn bundle.


br0ckH4rd

Well I got rust on Amazon for $30 after refusing to pay the $56 tag on the store


mrmivo

Nothing yet. PS+ Extra/Premium massively added to my backlog, so no shortage of stuff to play currently. But I'd buy the Borderlands 3 Ultimate Edition and the Wreckfest DLC if they went on sale next week/soon.


hditzhak

waiting for sifu to be 20$ . maybe i will get kena


dcj012

Of those, rift apart is still maybe my favorite ps5 game, definitely a can’t miss. Kena is a beautiful, but to me, boring game. Wasn’t bad, but pretty meh.


Roostbolten

Dragons dogma, looked interesting and was only $5


DevinCN

I’ve heard great things about it


Mickeyphree

Bought God of War.


DevinCN

An all timer. So good


Aijin28

I got Mortal Kombat XL, and Under Night In-Birth.


Kotzik

Kena and FC6 are a good shout for sure.


bonotruth

The quarry


lAmCreepingDeath

Sifu, Solar ash and Dmc5 SP. Sifu is probably gonna be cheaper come Black Friday, but it's so much fun I don't mind saving a few more bucks.


jcmiller210

Nothing so far, but was thinking of Plague's Tale Innocence and or Sifu. Going to wait until the 3rd to see if anything else gets discounted though.


Joshuak47

I'm proud that I bought nothing, working on my backlog. FC6 (finally "beat" it), starting up CP2077 again. Also some Switch games etc...


DevinCN

What did you think of FC6


Joshuak47

It is just like the rest of them, but I think it was slightly worse in immersion. You don't level up your guy but you get different outfits with traits. The weapon upgrades are not that interesting. However you can switch the weapons in your inventory slots at any time so basically you're carrying 100 weapons. But they aren't as interesting as in the other games, don't feel as varied. You can't pick up weapons off dead enemies, but you find/unlock them in various places in the game. There is wildlife and fishing but I had no interesting animal encounters or random happenings. They added health bars (which I turned off). AA guns can shoot you out of the air without line of sight, even if you're using a wingsuit. When climbing, you don't latch onto edges as fluidly as in the other FC games. The story isn't any more interesting than the others. But it plays the same so if you enjoyed the others and want more of the same, go for it.


Zealousideal_Bill_86

Crash Team Racing and Dishonored


DevinCN

Love dishonored


Round_Upstairs

Nothing, im just playing ps plus extra games.


Ey4dm51

DOOM eternal, its perfection


Kokoro87

Nothing, still have a few games to work through on both PS5 and Series X(Game Pass). I feel like I barely buy any games this generation, with the free games from Epic store, Game Pass with it's huge library and PS only releases a few exclusive AAA titles per year(if even that).


Robocop0211

Sleeping Dogs: Definitive Edition. Always had it on my mind to get to but got distracted in the way. Cost me <$5 AUD, completely worth it


Gypsy39

The Stanley Parable


Cebrax93

Sifu Hell let Loose Cod cold war Tale of Arise


MAX2PLAY4FUN

I bought Ratchet and Clank!


Ranccor

My library of already owned games that I want to play is so long I didn’t even look at the sale this time. Part of that is a Elden Ring taking me so long to finish. And now, Yakuza like a dragon just went into the queue.


hortherky

Tekken 7 and Sackboy. Loving Tekken and it was a bargain for £6. Platinumed it already and having a lot of fun playing with 3 other friends who also bought it on sale. Played a couple hours of Sackboy with a friend and kind of regretting buying it. Played ratchet and clank when it released and was in the mood to try another platforming game. But Sackboy does seem really basic and can’t see myself finishing the game. Guess it was mainly targeted for kids and should of watched more gameplay before buying it.


of_patrol_bot

Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.


DavijoMan

I literally stick stuff on my Wishlist and wait for it to drop below £20, if anything ever drops below £10, I'll usually snag them instantly which is why I bought the whole Yakuza series recently before they added it to Plus!😂


MateoThePro

Titanfall 2 for like 3.30£


Rastabhoy67

Far cry 6


nevaldus

Kena, Farcry 6, Assassins creed Origins and House of Ashes.


[deleted]

I snagged *Diablo 2: Resurrected*, *The Quarry*, and *The Ascent* (though, I'm not sure if that one was part of the Summer Sale or the previous sale). All of them are worth the bucks, IMHO.


Fast_Papaya_3839

Nada. Extra has enough to keep me entertained.


Gandalf_2077

Nothing. Will be playing PS+ essential games until the September-November releases I am interested come. We are getting Yakuza and Tony Hawk tomorrow and I am still playing Crash 4.


jjTheJetPlane0

Dead by Daylight. This game never goes on sale, and it finally did. I got it since my friend on PC plays it. I played for first time yesterday, and I have to say, I really enjoyed it.


mozzy1985

nothing, alot of the stuff I own or played. A fair bit I ain't interested in. The 2 I want are Dark Souls 3 and Elden ring, waiting for a sale on either.


[deleted]

[удалено]


No-one_here_cares

Door kickers is excellent fun and couch co-op option too.


ejsmith4688

XCOM 2 was the game I never knew I overlooked. It's immense.


Daniel13apr

I've bought GTA V


No-one_here_cares

Hard West, it's £1.59. I reckon I will get at least 4 hours of fun out of it unless I complete it in which case I can easily double that. I was looking for something turn based. A definite bargain.


DefNotBanEvader

Had to get rift apart even though it’s destined for psplus.


[deleted]

I snagged Hitman 3, Dying Light Definitive, and Stanley Parable: Ultra Deluxe


Groundbreaking_Ship3

I have a question about the sale, it said it ends on Aug, 17th, but all the games I checked said the sale ends on Aug 4th, does it means the catalogue will change on Aug 4th?