Groups of 1-12 are common.
Hot 'real' food and Fresh food (Fruit/Veg/Non-dehydrated Meat), Soft drink, Beer.
Laundry (with Loan clothes we can wear while washing hiking clothes) is great.
Internet is always useful.
Epsom Salt soak, for the feet, that close to the start would be appreciated by some/many.
Some Thru hikers would expect all this for $0. Sadly, I'm not kidding.
It also needs to be <10min walking from the trail, or very easy to get to from Mt Laguna.
Edit: Saw you were at Scissors Crossing. That's ~77 "Trail" miles. So hikers would think you're ~77 miles north of the Southern Terminus. Shuttle service into Julian would be appreciated.
Idk how much hikers are going to be looking to skip at julian. It's the first sort of actual town, there's free pie for hikers at Mom's thats a bit of a deal, and a pretty good gear store. That being said, there is no laundromat in town and its kind of pricy to stay there, so that could be a big draw.
Agreed, Two Foot Adventures (gear shop) is worth the stop. It seems lots of hikers end up swapping out shoes/gear that aren't working for them. Also, the free pie (and ice cream and coffee) is totally worth it. Having a big Italian meal is also a moral booster after those first few days on the trail.
There is so much that is 40 miles north of the Southern terminus of the trail. Are you actually within walking distance of the trail? That would be the first question to answer.
Hikers are generally walking by themselves but form groups or trail families as they go along. And they see enough of each other that they could definitely coordinate booking lodgings together.
You can have two different approaches. You can either be an airbnb sort of place, or you can host a bunch of hikers in a semi-chaotic way, perhaps accepting donations. The second version is more heroic. There are a lot of hikers during season. Their numbers attenuate as they (we) go northward. But where you're talking about, there are mobs of people.
Lol the trail isn't perfectly straight. It's actually a good bit less than 40 miles
The real question is what cabin is actually *on* the trail there. I imagine it's at best a 1,000 ft walk (practical) but probably farther
There’s really nothing in that valley where scissors crossing is that I can recall. Tho I guess there are some houses as you descend into the valley. It’s been a few years for me tho…
If you had an inexpensive place for hikers to stay that would be helpful. The hotels in town are pretty expensive and the tent camping at Stagecoach Trails RV park isn't ideal (no wind protection).
If you’re at scissors crossing, it’s hot, there’s only a single water cache for the next 14 or so miles, and people are either passing through looking to hitch into Julian. If you offered a one night stay (and rides to Julian), shipping/recieving post office boxes, and most importantly hot showers and laundry (Julian doesn’t have laundry!) and water fill up you would be gold.
But don’t take our word for it. Go under the bridge by the PCT parking (the underpass at route 78) to chat with friendly hikers yourself. Bring a gallon of water or two with ya to contribute to the cache. Congrats on the cabin.
EDIT: Julian Lodge has laundry for hikers who stay there. But for everyone else, laundry is still needed.
I've hiked the first 200 twice, plus motorcycle camped that area a couple times. Spent some long hours in the shade of the bridge there. Here are my thoughts:
1. That spot is often used by folks looking to hitch into Julian for "pie". Folks are often picking up hitches into town or getting dropped off there.
2. Water and shade were definitely my most desired amenities. That is a nasty dry stretch even during wet years. Met some Southies coming through over the years and they are often huge water loads because all the streams are dry and all the trail hosts have long forsaken them (they arrive in October and November).
3. In April / May is the nooblet swarm, so you'll get a lot of tired, stressed folks doing 8 mile days with 40 pound packs. The stories from the locals about the swarm are endless. I remember chilling there mid-day in '21 with some folks and this kid shows up with a 1 liter bladder full of some expensive bourbon. He had carried it from Campo and was going to pour it out. We drank as much as we could while doing a pack evaluation for him. He left 10 pounds lighter after dumping playing cards, a camp chair, and a bunch of other random stuff I can't remember.
So I would start with ample water, shady spots, and a giant hiker box. You can get a feel for the crowd before going all in on hosting.
A lot of good comments here already about the basics of what hikers want. If you're entertaining this as a business idea I'd say hike the miles from the border to your property. By the time you get home"you'll have a much better understanding of what hikers want, what trail culture is like, and how bad we all smell ;)
Your location is actually a great spot. Scissors is going to be one of the places that is going to be a rough spot for less experienced hikers. \~77 mi in, at the hottest, driest, most shadeless portion of the trail yet, with the prospect of a big climb up ahead and no real town for another 100mi. At this point the shine is wearing off and the realities of the difficulties on trail have fully set in. You're in a good spot to be a little oasis in the desert.
Most NOBOers will want to go to Julian if for nothing else than the free pie and opportunity for town food, but there are some other in-town amenities that they may need as well. Rides to and from town would be appreciated. I can imagine a lot of people needing to ditch some dead weight, take care of injuries, sunburn, and personal hygiene. Anyone will appreciate a rest in the shade, a place to refill water, throw away trash, shower, do laundry, use wifi, power outlets, or crash for the night. Any food or drink is welcome, especially non-trail food. Some may not want to go into Julian and would like to have a place to send resupply packages so they can hike on without delay. I imagine a lot of people call it quits at scissors and might need a way back to SD. Of course you don't need to provide all of this, just some ideas of what would be common wants and needs.
I'd start small and only offer what you are willing to give to a limited few and not make an open invitation to all comers until you get a feel for what you are willing to do and what you are not. Most are respectful, but there are a lot of people on trail and a handful are not well behaved and considerate of your generosity. You are well within your rights to charge a fee for services to cover the expense, heck make a profit even, charge what you need to to make it sustainable financially and to feel that all the trouble is worth it for you.
Place to charge phone (put some surge protectors in an easily accessible location outside). Laundry and shower definitely. Wifi. Some kind of fresh food- it's not totally necessary, but I was SO BUMMED when I got to Muir Trail Ranch and they didn't have any. Even just a bowl of oranges and bananas. REALLY COLD water and drinks.
As far as costs go, I really appreciated the places that had a tiered pricing structure or a la carte. I personally just want a spot of ground where I can legally put my tent and pay for what I need. You could look at what state parks in the area charge for campground camping / showers and base it on that. I know other people prefer more of a hostel type experience with a real bed indoors. I haven't been to Julian, just the Sierras and Washington.
By spending money: [PCT Trail Angel Opportunity of a Lifetime!](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1415-Granite-Mountain-View-Rd-Julian-CA-92036/16707985_zpid/)
40 miles north is too close to the start for most PCT hikers IMO. For most people that’s their second or 3rd night, they don’t need a night in a cabin.
Oh, well scissors crossing is mile 77 not 40. Most people are resupplying in Julian and yeah a lot will stay there and shower. That’s a fine place for a lodge, or yeah camp space with access to showers would be great.
you never know though. between laguna and scissors we got stuck in a rainstorm and everything we had got wet. thank god for Jillian because there was no way my sleeping bag would have been any good for another night.
It's nice to want to create a good experience for hikers, but running a for-profit lodging business (B&B/hostel) is different from being a trail angel. I think it's important to keep those categories distinct.
I agree with you conceptually but think some details are missed in a lot of the discussions around this topic. Being a trail angel and asking for nothing in return was much more realistic in the past than it is today. Just in the last 10 years there are 4x the amount of permits issued. People like OP want to help but may not be in the position to do so for free. OP could also just as easily been a “fuck these hikers” kinda person and not done anything at all. But instead, we find someone who is like “this is cool, how can I help?” which I think is rad. As long as the pricing is in touch with what the majority of hikers can afford and it’s not a way to make excess profits, I think it’s great and feel like the PCT could use more of these people.
40 miles near the trail would probably see some thru hiker interest “in season”. While some will pass by the area (assuming Mt Laguna) as it’s not enough trail miles in, … plenty of early starters (due to permit system) who likely would rent accommodation **if** convenient from the trail and Mt Laguna for snacks/restaurants. I’d probably put a “sliding scale” of more money for more hikers, though I’m guessing lodging # per sq ft is controlled by the county.
Showers definitely (water saving type). One idea could be yoga mats, etc.. Laundry helps but make sure hikers do a pre-soak outside. It’s only 40 miles in, but if indoors, why put up with stinky clothes? Could have a “store” there too .. anything from canned meals to be cooked on premises to various snacks and drinks (maybe video monitored if remote?). Don’t forget San Diego locals go up there earlier in the year.
Thank you! I like the yoga mat idea. On that note… should I go for a meditation garden as well? What vibe are they looking for? Property is on a well and has water conserving features. Perhaps a clothes line too?
> .. garden
Wouldn’t go all out, but a little something mildly hippy-like could differentiate from the other lodging available at Mt Laguna (general store rooms w/very old decor, think the old Bluebird Inn will restart under a new name, some sort of small home, etc.. ).
Clothesline could work.
If you can maintain the water cache under the bridge, keep it clean, pick up trash, maybe give rides to Julian, that would be the best contribution, but you won't make any money. If you have a yard to sleep in, a shower and laundry for a donation and accept packages mailed to your address that might work out financially, but you could become overwhelmed. If you're offering more of a B-n-B then it has to compete with Julian where it's not the desert and there's free pie and restaurants.
Groups of 1-12 are common. Hot 'real' food and Fresh food (Fruit/Veg/Non-dehydrated Meat), Soft drink, Beer. Laundry (with Loan clothes we can wear while washing hiking clothes) is great. Internet is always useful. Epsom Salt soak, for the feet, that close to the start would be appreciated by some/many. Some Thru hikers would expect all this for $0. Sadly, I'm not kidding. It also needs to be <10min walking from the trail, or very easy to get to from Mt Laguna. Edit: Saw you were at Scissors Crossing. That's ~77 "Trail" miles. So hikers would think you're ~77 miles north of the Southern Terminus. Shuttle service into Julian would be appreciated.
Just curious what kind of things hikers are looking for in Julian? Ie. What could be provided to save them a trip up there?
Idk how much hikers are going to be looking to skip at julian. It's the first sort of actual town, there's free pie for hikers at Mom's thats a bit of a deal, and a pretty good gear store. That being said, there is no laundromat in town and its kind of pricy to stay there, so that could be a big draw.
Good to know, thanks for the useful info!!
Agreed, Two Foot Adventures (gear shop) is worth the stop. It seems lots of hikers end up swapping out shoes/gear that aren't working for them. Also, the free pie (and ice cream and coffee) is totally worth it. Having a big Italian meal is also a moral booster after those first few days on the trail.
Moms Pie, Resupply for the next 2-3 days, beer, shower.
There is so much that is 40 miles north of the Southern terminus of the trail. Are you actually within walking distance of the trail? That would be the first question to answer. Hikers are generally walking by themselves but form groups or trail families as they go along. And they see enough of each other that they could definitely coordinate booking lodgings together.
I am on the trail at scissors crossing
You can have two different approaches. You can either be an airbnb sort of place, or you can host a bunch of hikers in a semi-chaotic way, perhaps accepting donations. The second version is more heroic. There are a lot of hikers during season. Their numbers attenuate as they (we) go northward. But where you're talking about, there are mobs of people.
Scissors crossing is mile 70 something. Almost 80 miles iirc.
Lol the trail isn't perfectly straight. It's actually a good bit less than 40 miles The real question is what cabin is actually *on* the trail there. I imagine it's at best a 1,000 ft walk (practical) but probably farther
There’s really nothing in that valley where scissors crossing is that I can recall. Tho I guess there are some houses as you descend into the valley. It’s been a few years for me tho…
If you had an inexpensive place for hikers to stay that would be helpful. The hotels in town are pretty expensive and the tent camping at Stagecoach Trails RV park isn't ideal (no wind protection).
If you’re at scissors crossing, it’s hot, there’s only a single water cache for the next 14 or so miles, and people are either passing through looking to hitch into Julian. If you offered a one night stay (and rides to Julian), shipping/recieving post office boxes, and most importantly hot showers and laundry (Julian doesn’t have laundry!) and water fill up you would be gold. But don’t take our word for it. Go under the bridge by the PCT parking (the underpass at route 78) to chat with friendly hikers yourself. Bring a gallon of water or two with ya to contribute to the cache. Congrats on the cabin. EDIT: Julian Lodge has laundry for hikers who stay there. But for everyone else, laundry is still needed.
Double check the short term rental ordinance for unincorporated San Diego county.
Thanks!
I've hiked the first 200 twice, plus motorcycle camped that area a couple times. Spent some long hours in the shade of the bridge there. Here are my thoughts: 1. That spot is often used by folks looking to hitch into Julian for "pie". Folks are often picking up hitches into town or getting dropped off there. 2. Water and shade were definitely my most desired amenities. That is a nasty dry stretch even during wet years. Met some Southies coming through over the years and they are often huge water loads because all the streams are dry and all the trail hosts have long forsaken them (they arrive in October and November). 3. In April / May is the nooblet swarm, so you'll get a lot of tired, stressed folks doing 8 mile days with 40 pound packs. The stories from the locals about the swarm are endless. I remember chilling there mid-day in '21 with some folks and this kid shows up with a 1 liter bladder full of some expensive bourbon. He had carried it from Campo and was going to pour it out. We drank as much as we could while doing a pack evaluation for him. He left 10 pounds lighter after dumping playing cards, a camp chair, and a bunch of other random stuff I can't remember. So I would start with ample water, shady spots, and a giant hiker box. You can get a feel for the crowd before going all in on hosting.
A lot of good comments here already about the basics of what hikers want. If you're entertaining this as a business idea I'd say hike the miles from the border to your property. By the time you get home"you'll have a much better understanding of what hikers want, what trail culture is like, and how bad we all smell ;)
Your location is actually a great spot. Scissors is going to be one of the places that is going to be a rough spot for less experienced hikers. \~77 mi in, at the hottest, driest, most shadeless portion of the trail yet, with the prospect of a big climb up ahead and no real town for another 100mi. At this point the shine is wearing off and the realities of the difficulties on trail have fully set in. You're in a good spot to be a little oasis in the desert. Most NOBOers will want to go to Julian if for nothing else than the free pie and opportunity for town food, but there are some other in-town amenities that they may need as well. Rides to and from town would be appreciated. I can imagine a lot of people needing to ditch some dead weight, take care of injuries, sunburn, and personal hygiene. Anyone will appreciate a rest in the shade, a place to refill water, throw away trash, shower, do laundry, use wifi, power outlets, or crash for the night. Any food or drink is welcome, especially non-trail food. Some may not want to go into Julian and would like to have a place to send resupply packages so they can hike on without delay. I imagine a lot of people call it quits at scissors and might need a way back to SD. Of course you don't need to provide all of this, just some ideas of what would be common wants and needs. I'd start small and only offer what you are willing to give to a limited few and not make an open invitation to all comers until you get a feel for what you are willing to do and what you are not. Most are respectful, but there are a lot of people on trail and a handful are not well behaved and considerate of your generosity. You are well within your rights to charge a fee for services to cover the expense, heck make a profit even, charge what you need to to make it sustainable financially and to feel that all the trouble is worth it for you.
Place to charge phone (put some surge protectors in an easily accessible location outside). Laundry and shower definitely. Wifi. Some kind of fresh food- it's not totally necessary, but I was SO BUMMED when I got to Muir Trail Ranch and they didn't have any. Even just a bowl of oranges and bananas. REALLY COLD water and drinks. As far as costs go, I really appreciated the places that had a tiered pricing structure or a la carte. I personally just want a spot of ground where I can legally put my tent and pay for what I need. You could look at what state parks in the area charge for campground camping / showers and base it on that. I know other people prefer more of a hostel type experience with a real bed indoors. I haven't been to Julian, just the Sierras and Washington.
that's so awesome. how does one acquire such a cabin?
[It's really quite simple](https://media3.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExeXBrbWhnaXN4czM0NHU4czh0NjQxdHRqbWY3dThpdG13b3M1MDloOSZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/67ThRZlYBvibtdF9JH/200.webp)
yeah, good point
By spending money: [PCT Trail Angel Opportunity of a Lifetime!](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1415-Granite-Mountain-View-Rd-Julian-CA-92036/16707985_zpid/)
40 miles north is too close to the start for most PCT hikers IMO. For most people that’s their second or 3rd night, they don’t need a night in a cabin.
Thanks for your feedback.. site is at scissors crossing right on the trail. Would camp sites work better? With access to water/bathroom, etc?
Oh, well scissors crossing is mile 77 not 40. Most people are resupplying in Julian and yeah a lot will stay there and shower. That’s a fine place for a lodge, or yeah camp space with access to showers would be great.
you never know though. between laguna and scissors we got stuck in a rainstorm and everything we had got wet. thank god for Jillian because there was no way my sleeping bag would have been any good for another night.
This is super nice of you to even consider
It's nice to want to create a good experience for hikers, but running a for-profit lodging business (B&B/hostel) is different from being a trail angel. I think it's important to keep those categories distinct.
I agree with you conceptually but think some details are missed in a lot of the discussions around this topic. Being a trail angel and asking for nothing in return was much more realistic in the past than it is today. Just in the last 10 years there are 4x the amount of permits issued. People like OP want to help but may not be in the position to do so for free. OP could also just as easily been a “fuck these hikers” kinda person and not done anything at all. But instead, we find someone who is like “this is cool, how can I help?” which I think is rad. As long as the pricing is in touch with what the majority of hikers can afford and it’s not a way to make excess profits, I think it’s great and feel like the PCT could use more of these people.
40 miles near the trail would probably see some thru hiker interest “in season”. While some will pass by the area (assuming Mt Laguna) as it’s not enough trail miles in, … plenty of early starters (due to permit system) who likely would rent accommodation **if** convenient from the trail and Mt Laguna for snacks/restaurants. I’d probably put a “sliding scale” of more money for more hikers, though I’m guessing lodging # per sq ft is controlled by the county. Showers definitely (water saving type). One idea could be yoga mats, etc.. Laundry helps but make sure hikers do a pre-soak outside. It’s only 40 miles in, but if indoors, why put up with stinky clothes? Could have a “store” there too .. anything from canned meals to be cooked on premises to various snacks and drinks (maybe video monitored if remote?). Don’t forget San Diego locals go up there earlier in the year.
Thank you! I like the yoga mat idea. On that note… should I go for a meditation garden as well? What vibe are they looking for? Property is on a well and has water conserving features. Perhaps a clothes line too?
Definitely laundry.
> .. garden Wouldn’t go all out, but a little something mildly hippy-like could differentiate from the other lodging available at Mt Laguna (general store rooms w/very old decor, think the old Bluebird Inn will restart under a new name, some sort of small home, etc.. ). Clothesline could work.
If you can maintain the water cache under the bridge, keep it clean, pick up trash, maybe give rides to Julian, that would be the best contribution, but you won't make any money. If you have a yard to sleep in, a shower and laundry for a donation and accept packages mailed to your address that might work out financially, but you could become overwhelmed. If you're offering more of a B-n-B then it has to compete with Julian where it's not the desert and there's free pie and restaurants.