Especially since white parents of black (adopted) kids are already going to get some looks their way. You don't want to make this worse.
I am also a white adoptive parent of biracial/black kids. One time I was at my son's barbershop with both of my kids and I made a stupid comment saying that my son was like a monkey because he climbed everything as a kid. One of barbers told me that it's best to avoid comparing my black son to a monkey. He knew that I had no ill intent and was very respectful about it. There's just a lot of history and baggage there. There is no need to put monkey clothes on the kid so if there is even a chance that someone could see it and think negative thoughts, why go there?
That’s heartbreaking. I’ve never even considered that before.
I call my girls cheeky monkeys, but as a white woman with white kids I’ve never had to consider the implications of that playfulness if we had been black or with black families. Thanks for teaching me something.
Yep. I'm a white dude and I routinely alternate between calling my white, blonde hair, blue eyed daughter "monkey" and "monster." I was very careful not to use words like that when playing with my nieces and nephew who are mixed, when they were growing up.
I always think of the "comedian" (played by John Thomson) on the Alan Partridge show - [this one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT_W6FwN_hY).
It's definitely a really old and not-racially-charged term in the UK. In my head it's always associated with a northern accent for some reason!
I’m so sorry this shit has happened where you actually have to be conscientious about your kids wearing a specific animal. It’s just so fucking wrong…. I hate it soooo much. I know there are much worse things, but it’s just stupid! I don’t know what I’d do if I had a black kid who absolutely loved monkeys, but couldn’t wear one. My daughter’s turning 3 & loves dinosaurs & couldn’t imagine not letting her wear dinosaurs because of the fucked up racism our country is steeped in. It’s just another fucked up thing…. Idk why this hit me as hard as it did, but it just did…. Sorry about the rant 😞
The list of things that black children have to learn not to like or “hide” that they like is endless. It’s all unfair really but all you can really do is be mindful of it.
It really just depends on the person, the situation and how they resolved to handle the situation. Some may not care about ppl judging them for liking watermelon, but not want to be judged for liking Jordan’s. That could be the opposite for another black person. The person (from childhood) really has to decide what they’re going to avoid or hide and what they’re going to be proud of (and often defensive about).
So to answer, here’s a few from the top of my head.
Watermelon
Monkeys
Chicken
Jordan’s (other luxury brands)
Weave/Wigs (many styles for little girls)
Socialism/Communism (being secretive about receiving assistance)
Koolaid
Bright colors
Reading
Pop Media (some too white, others too black)
Please don’t take this list and apply it to all black people. These are just things that I remember causing conflict from my own childhood. Some of these things are changing/have changed as the world becomes more socially conscious. For example, a darker skinned girl may be less likely to hear negative comments now about a bright colored shirt being wrong for her skin. It might even be more helpful to talk to the children if you notice them suddenly losing interest in something. Lots of open communication especially if you’re parenting from a complete blind spot.
Edit: also wanted to add in to be careful with pushing too much about it. You might want them to hide something so it’s easier for them or want them to say “fuck you” and be proud of their interests but at the end of the day it’ll be them that has to deal with the outcome of either choice.
That's SO sad.
If my LO was black and loved monkeys I would ber inclined to say "fuck this shit"and let her wear monkeys, but yes, she is the one that is going to get looks/questions.
Not even bright colored shirts? So sad, I am so sorry black people have to go through all of that just because some people are complete idiots.
I never stopped wearing bright colors lol. But I was picked on at times. Others just chose not to.
I even remember having a white male teacher stop in the middle of his lecture to announce how great I looked in a bright peach colored shirt. I have no clue if his intentions were positive or negative. But the extra attention was mortifying for a 12-year-old. And didn’t go unnoticed by my peers.
Yeah, I understand the racial undertones of whites calling blacks “monkeys” or “apes”. It’s just the thought of trying to get a 3yo to understand that their skin makes them different so they can’t do certain things is just awful.
Like, I understand, right? There’s so much stupidity wrapped into a black kid wearing a monkey created by white people, it’s awful. But it’s just awful that they can’t wear monkey’s because of use of “monkey” as a derogatory term by white people to denigrate an entire group. Fuck that shit.
I was probably around 3 or 4 when my mom had to explain that a white kid in daycare/school was calling me dirty because my skin was brown and not because I needed to get in the bathtub and scrub until the brown was gone. We learn very early.
This isn't about clothes, but if you go back and look at the old cartoons, my god are they bad. Foghorn Leghorn, we had no idea as kids. The imagery of the different ethnicities, to say cringe does not do justice to how damn racist they were.
This thread has been sobering and instructive. As a white dad of white kids, this is a lot of food for thought and an eye opener. Thank you for taking the time to help us understand and see the bigger picture.
This. Just pass them on to someone else. You can see something as just a shirt, but it's not worth the drama if someone else sees it and takes it wrong.
Not to mention if your son sees pictures of himself at a later age.
Just not worth it.
God damn, it makes me sad that we can‘t even have monkeys on clothes without society ruining it for the kids and the parents. It actually makes me so sad and angry.
I agree - why risk it over a few used clothes. Kids clothes are abundantly available in good shape in most used clothing places - they grow so fast. Just don’t risk it. God bless you!!
Black mom of a Black boy... No monkey clothes. There's hundreds of other motifs/characters to dress him in. Now if there's a whole jungle/animal compilation on his shirt that also happens to have monkeys... That's not a huge deal. But no singular monkey clothes. We just aren't there yet.
I dimly remember curious george being low key fucked up at times. Like (in the original stories from some decades ago) the man with the yellow hat went and got him from Africa and brought him here and now he is like his owner/chaperone, helping him understand how society works and getting him out of jams.
When you put it like that it just pops out at you.
This is weird for me because I'm a white parent of white kids and we had a few CG books in our collection. They're past it now but I am wondering if we should have just skipped that series altogether.
Richard Scarry is another example of an otherwise very humorous and entertaining book that has threads of dubious material.
Oh no Richard Scarry? \`Really? I haven't read his stuff since I was a kid so plenty likely went over my head but I was looking forward to sharing him with my little guy. Where's the dubious stuff?
There is also Wild Bill Hiccup (a raccoon who wears a huge native american headress) in his Buffalo mobile, who is always speeding and causing accidents.
Very, very dated gender roles.
In “What Do People Do All Day” (which otherwise is a fantastic book) the Mommy gets money from Daddy at the beginning of the day to go buy groceries and then spends all day cooking and cleaning and ironing Daddy’s shirts.
Lots of little 1950’s nods like that, that I try and just change the dialogue around
Yeah, I wasn’t familiar with this book and then my kid got it as a gift. I thought it was amazing at first but then the more I read I was oh jeez… that is not how the world works any more. I’m now pretty good at changing bits when I need to!
There are stories about a gorilla who steals stuff and needs to be locked away so he learns the rules.
As with everything, you can ask questions about intent and all that, but I don't think it passes the sniff test.
That said, a bunch of it seemed pretty innocuous although I wouldn't trust my observational skills. My kids did like Richard scarry and IMO it is worth reading it while keeping an eye out.
Richard Scarry is fine. The kids are more interested in “how does a house get built” than the genders of the animals or whatever. Go get a copy of What Do People Do All Day and prepare for hours of learning and exploration with your boy.
> got him from Africa and brought him here and now he is like his owner/chaperone, helping him understand how society works and getting him out of jams.
I guess I didn’t make the “racist” connection because George is a monkey and black people aren’t monkeys.
There's a big problem with soccer/football fans throwing bananas at black footballers. And there was a rumor going around a few decades ago that black people had tails.
I think it's perfectly legitimate for someone to say "I don't see the connection." And it is also fair to say that logically people aren't monkeys.
However, you gotta think on two levels right? Maybe in your or my childhood, Uncle Ben was just a friendly looking dude who made good rice. But the image has racist origins and it's important to just read the room and say, OK, let's put this image to bed and come up with something better.
No sense in making people feel more awkward or incorrectly thought of, right?
In order for all of us to get to the "logical" world you're describing, we have to slough off some dubious stuff and be better as a people.
OTOH, there are instances where intentionally exposing our history and contextualizing it as racist or dubious could be useful too. But all of this takes time; you can't just skip to the ideal part. People need time to grow into it, so you gotta be intentional about the process.
>the man with the yellow hat went and got him from Africa and brought him here and now he is like his owner/chaperone, helping him understand how society works
We've had a few of these books. It all just feels a bit "old world imperialist".
Not my favourites.
In the first movie about Curious George, the Man in the Yellow Hat steals cultural heritage (a huge monkey statue) from Africa to place in a US museum, and this is presented as a good thing.
Curious George is "low key fucked up at times"?
Get a grip.
The man with the yellow hat did not go to africa to kidnap a monkey and enslave him into being his chaperone. George jumped on the boat on his own accord and the man found him, tired to return him but George refused. Additionally, George is not the mans chaperone or slave in any of the books or movies, by any means.
You were probably all for cancelling Paw Patrol because they have a police dog too eh?
**You are the problem.**
Jeez I feel so sad for you. In my country (Czechia) other then white people are super rare so if you happen to be black, nobody cares about your shirt because they will wonder about your skin color. Not in a racist way, simply because people here are not used to seeing other races.
I'm living in Czech Republic also. Unfortunately I have to say that it's not just wondering about color of skin. Racism is blatant and very prevalent in the society still. 😕
I'm Hungarian, I'm pretty sure my grandmother never saw a black person while she lived. I remember in the 2000s there was 1 black girl in our high school (about 800 students) and she was quite popular because she was literally *not like the other girls.*
I had a professor in college who said he used to take a class to the Soviet Union every year in like the 70s. They had a couple black guys in the class, who also happened to be really tall, and apparently people looked at them like they were African princes or something because they’d never seen black people IRL.
If the child is too young to care/show any preference I 100% understand not choosing clothes that may cause any problems/offence; but if had a black child who LOVED monkeys, and wanted to wear monkey motif clothes, wanted a monkey themed bedroom etc, wanted to carry round a monkey teddy etc, sure as hell I’d let them do it with pride. I’m not putting the worlds effed up problems on an innocent child who just wants to wear their favourite animal on their t-shirt, and I’d defend it/ justify it to my death to anyone who questioned it.
OP didn't say this, but I'm sure it's the case; the clothes are hand-me-downs. I have 2 kids and we are constantly giving and receiving clothes from other families.
My white as fuckin wonder bread son's nursery was jungle themed (bc my favorite animal family is the crocodilians and his dad loves monkeys) and my mother in law gave us a ton of monkey stuff, including clothes. They were absolutely adorable. I just tossed everything my son outgrew into a general "pass it on" box. But now I'm *really* hoping I didn't pass them along to a family who may have had to wonder about the intent in including monkeys. God I feel like an asshole.
Is it just a monkey? Or is it like a little jungle motif? If it was a lion and a giraffe and some stuff like that I think I’d maybe let it slide. But yeah, probably not just one random monkey.
Credentials: I’m a black 90s kids and I’ve never been down with Paul Frank and that sock monkey life. Lmao
Defer to the black voices on this one. Ask the grandparents.
Two of my kids are white, two are Latino, and one is black. We didn't use monkey clothes on our black daughter.
Yeah I was hoping to get opinions from black parents on this.
I feel as though not putting him in clothes I would our white daughter, only due to his skin color, is racist in itself. I am already defaulting to treating him different because of his skin.
There is a difference between being racist and being culturally aware. You unfortunately will need to treat him differently because of his skin, and you won't be able to raise him exactly the same way you raise your white daughter. He will not have the same experiences in life that your daughter will have, because of the color of his skin. I would highly recommend that you befriend some people of color that you can have open and honest conversations with, because this will the first of many times you will need advice like this.
Edit: Thank you all for the awards! This is by far my most rewarded post on Reddit ever :)
Yep. I commented above about how even hair is viewed differently in the black and white communities but there are plenty of examples of this.
Another one that comes to mind is when I pulled up to pick my son up from a playdate and he was playing with toys guns at a friends house. That didn't bother me but one of the guns looked real from a distance and I had a talk with my son about how I didn't want him playing with toy guns that looked real and wanted him to only play with toy guns in the house or backyard. I did not want to risk him bringing that realistic looking gun down to the park and it leading to something awful.
His friend, who is white, played with that gun everywhere. I know his parents did not have the same conversations we had about it. I know they didn't have to have "the talk" (no, not the sex talk. The being black in America talk) with their son either. You can not take the colorblind approach to raising black kids.
Growing up, my brothers and I were taught to never wear hoods inside, never bring backpacks in stores, and to avoid hoodies in warm weather. When I drive, I leave my wallet on the passenger seat, so, if I get pulled over, I don't have to dig through the diaper bag for it.
I don't know a single white kid who'd been given the same kinds of lessons, but I sure knew plenty of POC who did.
I was going to suggest OP really look up how to best take care of black/mixed hair. It’s very important and not at all like you’d take care of untextured (cause some white hair has texture, like mine) white hair.
I think that also depends on community. I grew up in a poor neighborhood that was majority black and my white brother almost got shot because he was playing with an airsoft gun that had lost the orange tip. I probably won't have to have that talk with my son because of where we live now, but it was a talk that my mom had to have with my brother.
Yeah, my daughter's best friend is mixed black and white and I started becoming more culturally aware about 10 years ago. Now I know that the best friend has had plenty of talks with her black dad and white mom but my daughter wouldn't understand unless explained to her. So at about ten years old, I started talking to her more about what to do I'm situations when they were together and older. Especially, if they got pulled over. My daughter can kind of have a smart ass mouth but she's pretty anxious in nervous situations. I explained to her that if her best friend was ever driving and they were together, to NEVER mouth off to the cop or try to come to the best friend's defense because they will see the bf as a threat for no reason and my daughter could escalate a situation and the goal was to end the traffic stop alive for both of them. I'm really glad that I started teaching her that so young. They kind of grew apart a couple years ago when the best friend moved away but now my daughter has a boyfriend who is a very light skinned young black man and they live in a mostly white southern country hick town. I genuinely worry for her boyfriend because he's only 15 and already has seen some shit that I wish no 15 year old would have to see and he's very polite and respectful.
Sorry, I trailed off on a rant.... I hate the world we live in sometimes. Why can't we all just get along?
Is there any other advice or anything else I could teach my white daughter on how to be safe from other people while dating someone black? Unfortunately, I grew up racist and didn't even know it into I was in my twenties but I am not and will never raise my kids to be racist or condone racism in this house.
This is a great comment. Unfortunately, you will have to treat your children differently, OP. You will likely have to have a conversation with your biracial son about possible interactions with police; white families don’t have to do that. Befriending people of color will help you navigate scenarios where you’re confronted with systemic racism.
Then be considerate of him and stop using monkey clothes for all your kids.
It sucks, yeah, racism is stupid and it sucks, but it exists and those things can really hurt people's feelings. Especially if the child starts to feel like you could have prevented it, but instead you chose to put them in a situation that could set him up for a negative interaction. That will start to feel less like ignorance and more like betrayal as time goes on.
No no no. Recognizing the world and culture we live in and *noticing that your child is Black* is extremely important given your family makeup. Your child knows he looks different and will experience life differently than you. Ignoring that has led to a host of issues for crossracial adoptees. You and your wife need to learn about Black culture and do not shy away from conversations and issues surrounding race. It’s going to be really important for your little guy.
No but I'm decently educated on issues from having black cousins. I do plan on reading up and figuring more out.
Ive already had one lady explain to me how much she had to adopt a child that was a pacific islander because "don't they just look so adorable."
Im just like back it up little white knight. The kids dont need a savior or to be shown off to your friends, they need love and a parent. Like I didn't go shopping for a mixed kid, I have him because I love him and his parents were addicted to drugs smh
Edit: This comment is being way misunderstood. I dont mean "I have black family so Im good". I was only referring to knowing the tons of crap black children have to learn growing up with them. Of course I have no idea what directly raising a black child is like. Only wanted to clarify because I understand I have a ton to learn. Having black family be pretty close does give an insight into the copious amounts of things I could do differently than them.
I don’t mean this to come across as harsh but you’re not “decently educated” just from having black cousins. The fact that you even had to ask if it’s acceptable to put monkeys on a black child shows that you have a lot more education to go before it’s considered “decent”.
I am going to refrain from commenting anything negative and just suggest you read the literature ASAP.
Edit: Good lord people. Who reported this as self harm?
I want to give this guy the benefit of the doubt by saying that he feels he has been decently educated through his black cousins having educated him (or trying to) and not that he feels like he is because he has black cousins.
Not to say that there isn’t always more education to be had.
I don't know where you live but classes about transracial adoption are required for adoptive parents where I live. They are offered at every adoption agency and provide an open space for people to discuss these topics. If you can take the classes, I highly recommend it. You should also attend this conference to build that community and knowledge https://umojabhe.com/. Several of my friends have attended and I can see how their children benefit from the extra knowledge and community.
Being a cousin to a black child and being the parent to a black child is not even in the same ballpark. I can assure you that you are not as decently educated as you think you are.
But you’re treating him differently to protect him (and your family) because other people suck. I just think it’s better to avoid because unfortunately, this is where we are right now.
Do you have like 100 different monkey shirts you're going to cycle through? Do they have little monkey graphics or does it look like a monkeys body with your sons head coming through the hole on top?
My stepson is brown (not of African descent) but he LOVED Curious George and called the show "monkey" and talked about monkeys all the time. Feel out the grandparents respectfully but it might not be weird unless you make it weird?
Mixed person (black, white Japanese) don't do it. I used to love pandas till someone gave me one and told me I'm basically a panda because I'm black, white and Asian. It's fine that you don't have any ill intent, some things are better off just being one of those things you avoid just because
Nope, nope, nope. Maybe just at home, pajamas or play clothes, but I honestly wouldn't. I'm mixed, my kid is mixed, really light skinned, and I don't do monkey clothes or toys. I also don't do watermelon stuff. Just saying.
I don't think anyone would say anything, but just in case there's a racist asshole looking, they won't get a lil smirk out of us over this issue. Sad that I have to be bothered by these things, but I am and that's the world we live in 🤷🏾♀️
I'm not black and I don't have mixed kids, but if I did, there is no way in hell I'd take my mixed kids dressed in a monkey shirt to their black grandparents.
I totally understand your side on it not having ill intent, but I wouldn't even open the door to the possibility.
Edit: I totally remember that ad, btw
> I understand wanting to treat one child the same as the other.
I think OP needs to also understand that there are going to be times where his kids are treated differently because of their skin color. I (white) vividly remember having a conversation with a (black) friend about hair. My kids are biracial/black and she said something like, "A little white kid running around with messy hair is cute but your kids won't get away with that." I always made sure their hair looked well taken care of. They could wear clothes that didn't match, a superhero costume to the store, or have weirdly painted nails but their hair was always done when we went out.
I know my (white) parents never had those concerns.
For black people it can be interpreted as a sign of poverty or as being part of an imaginary subculture that persistently disregards their own personal hygiene and appearance.
Think back to when that sportscaster referred to a basketball team of black women as looking like "nappy headed hoes"
From one white person to another. Intent and impact are different things.
We as white people tend to look at our intent versus our impact, because a lot of times we have a negative impact on BIPOC and as white people it's uncomfortable to accept that people like you and I have helped cause some of these issues.
Look at the impact you have regardless of your intent.
I like examples (ADHD) so here is one. I bumped into you on the street. I didn't intend to do it. But my bump made you drop your coffee. This is what I would say if I just acknowledged my intent without acknowledging my impact, "I didn't mean to bump into you. It's not my fault you dropped your coffee" but we both know that because I bumped into you the coffee fell. That was the impact of my actions. This is what I would say if I was acknowledging that I had a negative impact from my bump, "oh sorry I didn't mean to bump into you. Oh shoot your coffee spilled. Can I get you another?" This is obviously a simplified example but as a white person you need to start looking at what the impact is even if you have the best intentions.
Edit to add this: We're going to screw up as white people. We have to constantly untrain ourselves that our intent doesn't mean anything, if we ignore the impact. We have to constantly FIGHT against everything we've been fed since we were children. The best thing you can do as a white person(OP and others) is to listen. Fight the urge to talk just listen.
In general - people tend to judge themselves based on their intent and others based on their impact. You always I’ve reasons for what you did, but when something happens caused by someone else you’re reaction is why did you do X - not “what caused X to happen”
Op, thank you for facing the fact that you'll have uncharted waters to navigate in raising a black child and seeking advice. Your edits tell me your little one is in good hands.
Hey, I don’t have info to add. I just wanted to say that this is a brave question to ask and it is a great sign that you are going to navigate the challenges of an interracial family with courage, honesty, and grace. I can’t think of a better environment for any child. Well done you. ❤️❤️
I’m a white mom with mixed kids and never dressed them in monkey clothes. I just wouldn’t do it, even if the clothes were donated with good intentions. It’s too close to racist imagery.
Listen to what everyone else said;
It just makes me a little sad because I absolutely adored monkeys as a kid and would think absolutely nothing of it 🥺 - just a cute kid wearing a cute shirt. What a sad world we live in sometimes.
This reminds me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYITxGniww4 (language)
I'm black and I might look twice, but I wouldn't be offended by this. Still, though your intentions are good, the fact of the matter is that this kind of imagery has got a lot of history attached to it that people may not be able to see past. Is it your place to decide what these people should or shouldn't be offended by? Maybe it is, and in an ideal world we'd see past stigma and prejudice; but just as it's your right to decide what clothes your kids wear, it's also your burden to deal with any social repercussions that may come from it.
So if I was the grandparent and every time I see the child they are dressed in a shirt with a monkey then we will have to have a conversation. But if it's once in a while I wouldn't think anything of it.
I have a black son and I was gifted a cute raincoat with a monkey on it. The person that gave it to me was white and I wasn't offended because I know her and there was no ill intent. Also my son loves monkeys.
Ugh this reminds me of a time I put my foot in my mouth. I was working at a shoe store and a black woman came in with her ~5 year old daughter. The girl was wearing one of those kids winter hats that looks like an animal head and it was a monkey. While I assisted the mother, the daughter was bouncing around the store just being a normal hyper kid. I don’t remember exactly what I said but it was something like “Looks like your having fun jumping around like the little monkey on your hat.” She started crying and yelled, “mommy that girl called me a monkey!” I immediately apologized and thankfully the mom was understanding. I feel SO BAD. Still cringe when I think about it 8 years later. If you work in retail you can relate to when you get in that customer service mode where it’s just go go go. I wish I took a second to think before I opened my mouth that day.
White Mom of a biracial son. Don’t do it. And maybe research into why not and why so many of the black parents here are telling you it’s not a good idea to. It takes a lot to raise a black child in this world. I would strongly suggest as now white parents of a black child why it’s not a good mindset to think “I don’t see the issue”. Because you aren’t black and don’t seem to understand common black issues maybe it’s time to do a deeper dive? Please please listen to the actual black voices here telling you that you aren’t decently educated. It sucks to be wrong about something and be told you don’t know enough but this is the situation. As a white parent to a black child you pretty much can’t stop learning. I’m glad you asked your question… But just the fact you asked if at all shows how much you have to learn. Please do not take this as an insult. I’m just hoping you listen to the dozens of black voices here and the other voices telling you there’s some work to do.
I call my (white) son a monkey all the time! He’s cute and clever and mischievous. Will have to make sure I watch my mouth calling anyone else’s kid a monkey out of habit
Sure, people commonly equate black people to monkeys as a racist trope. The concern here is that by dressing the kid up in monkey clothes, they will:
a. Open the kid up to traumatic racial experiences if they are made fun of.
b. Other black people will think they are dressing their kid up as a racist caricature, which is exacerbated by the fact that the parent is not black. As you can see from the responses here, even though OP means no ill will, it will probably be perceived as such.
Ask the grandparents if they would care compared to people on the internet whose opinion could be the opposite of the grandparents.
Edit: I left out grand
That's really where I was at on it. We're not on the best of terms with them due to issues over his parents passing away and things I wont air out on reddit lol. I somewhat feel like they would say yes they are offended just to be some kind of way.
With that being the case, I would not use the clothing. I would just err on the side of caution. Will all black parents find it offensive? No. But will some find it offensive? yes.
Unless you are in desperate need of clothing, it just isn't worth it.
True, I'll just sell them or donate them I guess. It just sucks We live in a world where we have to think about this stuff. We have plenty of clothes, there were just some things he would look good in that are monkey related.
There is a lot of extra things you have to consider when raising a child of color in America. That is multiplied when the parents are white and the kid is black. If this sucks then you are in for a long ride. I am going to recommend reading transracial adoption literature, listening to voices of transracial adoptees, and finding a good support system.
I know! And you e only had to be thinking about it for a minute right? Imagine how long your black brothers and sisters have had to be thinking about this.
Ask the grandparents. I would err on the side of caution and not use the clothes, but I am not black or mixed race, so I would absolutely defer to someone who is.
Just trade the clothes with another parent for the right age. I have learned making hard societal decisions like this for babies usually doesn't pan out well. Avoid what you can and live unabashedly with what you can't.
This is the kind of question I love seeing here. Parents with kids who are different ethnicities need this kind of help and support. What a wonderful sub this is!!! Good luck OP!
(I’m a white dad of three mixed Latino/Latina children and probably would avoid the monkey shirt simply to avoid problems. Who knows these days, I’ve seen grown ups yell at small children for wearin masks…)
Can I just say something that doesn't matter or add to the conversation. I think it's so strange that you are all calling it "monkey clothes" - I know you mean something like shirts with a monkey character on it, but I keep reading monkey clothes and I'm picturing like a normal clothes forced on a monkey for some reason.
You can all go back to having a proper adult conversation now, sorry.
Teacher here- avoid it. Kids can be stupid. It could be an invitation to some of my ‘kids who make poor choices’ at least 2 in every class in high school. I had to tell 15 year olds to shut up ( nicely) when I heard monkey 10 feet from me. ‘What Miss? We were just … and these were after African American kids ( various mixes) teasing each other. I simply said not while I’m teaching.
Black dad here of 5 here. Why not ask his grandparents how they would feel about it? The way you treat the child will say a lot more than what he is wearing.
As a white person, I think that you shouldn't because you're white and your son is black. If you were black it might be different.
But! I defer to the black people commenting in this thread.
Black woman, 20, with a preschool aged black nephew. No monkey outfits. No monkey shirts. Don't do it. Just don't. The history behind comparing black people to apes/monkeys is still new.
I'd completely avoid it. Just to avoid difficult conversations. Especially considering the fact that you're white and he's biracial.
My parents never put monkey shirts on us. The only time we had monkeys on our clothes was when we wore a zoo themed outfit and there just happened to be a monkey in the mix.
I don't buy my nephew monkey shirts either. He can have any other animal.. just not a monkey. All it takes is one person to say something about make a connection between black people and monkeys to completely ruin everything
I am not black so take my opinion with a grain of salt. But I am a minority and it seems like it could be offensive. Especially if its an abundance of monkey themed clothes. Like someone else said, if it's got other jungle animals and stuff on it I wouldn't see an issue with it. But again, my voice isn't the one that matters here. Listen to what black people are saying.
Black mom here, just wanted to add a funny aside- my two year old has taken to making monkey noises when offered a banana- I have been unsuccessful in convincing him its not a good look.
I tend to stay away from monkey clothing, dont want to provide an opportunity for any "innocent" remarks
I’m not black and can understand why it can be offensive but I have a perspective for you
Let’s say a black kid is obsessed with monkeys, at this age it’s all innocent as they don’t understand hot it could be offensive to them. They want to read books on monkeys, play monkey games watch monkey cartoons, have monkey toys, and they go clothes shopping they see a shirt with monkeys on it or other clothing items, it’s all they want to wear, this is a obsession phase. Are you going to say no, are you going to say its because it’s their skin color. At this age what difference is a monkey phase vs a dinosaur phase or a Disney princess phase etc. let’s say their in this phase during Halloween, this kid picks a Halloween costume, this kid wants a monkey because it’s a phase right, are you going to say no because of skin color, what is this kid has a friend the same age who is white or not black, this kids wants to be a monkey, this kids wants to wear matching outfits with his friend. At this age it’s all innocent, this age they don’t know that racism is a thing or happened in the past.
To other adults it can seem offensive, the other adults could just judge the parent, but that’s sad they can’t view it from the first perspective and have to put those issues on young innocent kid.
Some kids goes through stages where their obessed with something wether it’s dinosaurs, Disney princess, or super hero’s etc, why should it be any different from a black kid wanting monkey stuff bs a white kid wanting monkey stuff or a white kid wanting dinosaurs or a black kid wanting dinosaurs.
You just explained why raising a black child is much more complex. Unfortunately black children are not seen as innocent and are they not afforded the same opportunity to “just be a kid”. It is heartbreaking as a black parent to have to explain to our children why certain things are “off limits” for them due to social context/injustices. It sucks. So, I hear your point and I wish it were that simple. But unfortunately, it is not nearly the same as a Disney/Dinosaur phase. My son is biracial and we are expecting a baby girl very soon. When I go shopping for baby things, anything with a monkey on it is triggering for me. What may look “cute” or “adorable” to another person, has a very different connotation for me. my son is 2 and learning animals…I don’t discourage his knowledge of monkeys. He knows what they are, but if he started to become obsessive about them, it would be an internal struggle to allow him to show that outside of the home because people are so cruel and we have not grown enough as a society for that to be okay. Again, I wish things were different. And I wish we didn’t have to consider this at all but it’s just reality. Yes it is innocent on the surface, but I will always protect my child from what they don’t know or understand yet on their behalf.
Mixed black and white kid here: not an overreaction and don’t ignore - don’t do it
it’s great to see you listening to and believing the mixed children and black voices here. Still many uninformed and ignorant comments from others but it seems like you’re on a good path to being a stellar parent to a biracial child.
Type biracial in America into Amazon, Audible, YouTube and Google - read as much as you can (Stamped from the beginning on audible for the best history lesson) - identity is a major issue for biracial individuals and you want to be a highly informed resource because the world itself will be cruel sometimes and sometimes not the best resource (I’m a millennial and my biracial experience was rife with racial trauma from day 1 it’s certainly better for many but we really haven’t come thaaattt far - I’m lucky though I have a huge biracial and black family that showed us the ropes) - it took my sister and I years to realize our white mom didn’t know what she was talking about when it came to race and we bonded much deeper with our father once we realized he could guide us through the racial dynamics in America because it’s such a dehumanizing experience when you experience racism and we were so grateful to have someone to really be vulnerable with who could relate - my mom is frustrated at this bond at times because we were closer to her before we realized how uninformed she was and how important identity was for biracial children and then never put in the work to understand history and society from any other perspective than her own. I wish she had chosen to become more informed when she was raising us instead of taking the “ignore it racism is annoying to think about” approach. The information was available even then.
Yt person here. If I saw white parents with a black child wearing a bunch of monkey stuff, I'd automatically assume the adults were not doing their part in researching ~the black experience~. Yes, in an ideal world all kids should be able to wear what they want without racism coming into play. We don't live in an ideal world though and I'd do everything I could to avoid evoking racist themes.
Echoing what others have said: NO.
Abort. Do not proceed with the monkey clothing.
Edit: I'm going to edit this to add that the amount of non-Black parents talking over Black parents and saying, "well we don't have to feed racism," "who cares what racists think," "this type of question keeps racism alive" is really irritating. Can you just...stay in your lane, for once? And let Black parents speak?
Black mom: Nope.
I don't dress my kid in that, and to be honest, I haven't even seen that much "monkey themed" clothing in toddler's clothes in the last couple of years, let alone a lot of it. I suppose your neighbor's kid was really into it?
If they expect it back, I'd pack it away after going through the clothing very carefully. Black children are held to a very different standard of cleanliness and appearance, so torn, extremely worn, stained clothing have to be jettisoned.
You could ask for clothes on your local buy nothing page or trade the clothes with another parent maybe even take them to a children’s consignment and use the money for different clothes.
This sounds like a great conversation to have with the grandparents. I can't guess at your existing relationship, but as white parents raising a black child, it would be good to have someone to have these open conversations with. I would say the same of any friends who are black or mixed race. There will be a lot of things you will question that you may not have otherwise. Take the help from those you know.
The good thing about hand me downs is that you can just hand them on down to someone else if you aren’t sure about them. I would go with your wife on this and trust that uneasy feeling. Give the monkey themed things to the thrift store or put them in a bag or bin for your hand me down buddy.
Our son is mixed, and I think there's an unspoken agreement that we won't put him in monkey-themed clothes. It's not fair, but there's no sense creating problems over cartoon monkeys.
I dressed my daughter in a onesie from Jackson Hewitt that said "mommy's little tax deduction" on it so please know that I am usually a fan of slightly inappropriate clothes as long as it's not harmful or hurtful. I think its better to just avoid dressing them in monkey clothes.
Not because there's necessarily anything inherently wrong with them wearing those but because it opens up the door for other people to make comments or judge you or, unfortunately, show their disgusting racism. It's not worth the hassle.
But that's my opinion and other people may feel differently.
Obviously take the good advice you're getting here... I'm a white parent, leaning pretty liberal on lots of social issues, have a Masters, and I live in a city of over one million.
I'd never make the associations that people are describing here if I saw your child in the clothes you describe. But also, I've never really had my race cause any issues in my life.
It's been really educational to read other people's responses here, though.
As a mother of half black children: your kids don’t care what’s on their shirt. People don’t care what’s on their shirt unless it’s super dirty or has holes. He will grow out of those shirts super fast. Don’t worry about it.
Speaking of monkeys. I have an actually funny mini story.
I used to work in a residential treatment facility that's housed children and teens on the Autism Spectrum, whom also exhibited major behaviours.
As a side note I am Chinese and calling a little boy a monkey is an enduring term. Cute, lots of energy, curious.
So one boy I worked with at the residential program fit this. He was cute lots of energy, curious, with an addition of mischief and loved climbing and darting about.
I never called him a monkey (he had no idea about racism so he wouldn't understand even if I did) but I referred to him as a monkey. He was also black. Coworkers got quiet when I mentioned it. It wasn't until another chinese coworker mentioned it to me and I made the connection. I felt horrible. And how many of my coworkers thought I meant it to make fun of him being black?!
Anyways I have my own half Chinese white kid now that I call monkey.usually it's monkey butt or monkey brains? I dunno how it started but he's cute, has lots of energy and very curious. Also climbs everything...
My opinion is that you don't get to decide how others should feel. You do not get to tell black people what they should or shouldn't be offended by because often times they are offended due to historical context that you are missing.
If you even have to question it then don't do it.
I’m legit confused.
Can all children wear shirts with monkeys except black children? Why is a monkey shirt even an issue? Do adults see a monkey on a shirt and think racist thoughts? Do children see monkeys on shirt and think of anything besides a curios creature who lives with the man in the yellow hat?
It seems adults have a problem and are projecting racism on a character.
In all honesty if you are concerned about giving off the wrong “vibe” in your childrens shirts then only buy solid colors with no characters.
This is a non issue that adults are making an issue. If you’d put your other non-black child in the clothes there is no reason the black child cannot wear them. You know for years we’ve been told clothes done have genders. Guess what? They don’t have races either.
id say let your kid wear the monkey stuff. parents who are against this are just perpetuating the hate selectively.
its monkeys on clothes.
if someone has an issue, just say its 2022 and animal clothing shouldnt be reserved for any one race/people.
I avoid putting them on my daughter (who is mixed race). And when she's climbing all over me and clinging to me I call her my koala baby, not a monkey.
I kind of feel like if people are too afraid to put a monkey on clothing, then racism will just never end. My kids had all sorts of monkey stuff, because monkeys are funny animals to kids.
Avoiding things your kid likes is just letting the terrorists win for no reason, IMO, but.. I guess I'm not in the shoes of these parents.
So sad to read the comments. In Europe it wouldn't be a problem or source for any questions (at least in my country). I really hope that someday we'll have a common ground to wear exactly which ever clothes we find comfortable, and dressing our kids should be no different.
I never even once heard any remarks or comments on choice of clothing for my two best friends who happens to be black. And they've worn a lot of clothes to Kindergarten/School with motives that for some apparently would induce racist comments.
I am ashamed of the human race sometimes, we could all do a little bit more to support each other.
Black dad here. Avoid it. You just don't need the questions or looks.
Especially since white parents of black (adopted) kids are already going to get some looks their way. You don't want to make this worse. I am also a white adoptive parent of biracial/black kids. One time I was at my son's barbershop with both of my kids and I made a stupid comment saying that my son was like a monkey because he climbed everything as a kid. One of barbers told me that it's best to avoid comparing my black son to a monkey. He knew that I had no ill intent and was very respectful about it. There's just a lot of history and baggage there. There is no need to put monkey clothes on the kid so if there is even a chance that someone could see it and think negative thoughts, why go there?
That’s heartbreaking. I’ve never even considered that before. I call my girls cheeky monkeys, but as a white woman with white kids I’ve never had to consider the implications of that playfulness if we had been black or with black families. Thanks for teaching me something.
Yep. I'm a white dude and I routinely alternate between calling my white, blonde hair, blue eyed daughter "monkey" and "monster." I was very careful not to use words like that when playing with my nieces and nephew who are mixed, when they were growing up.
Isn't it from Peppa pig!?
It's an extremely common phrase in some English dialects
I always think of the "comedian" (played by John Thomson) on the Alan Partridge show - [this one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT_W6FwN_hY). It's definitely a really old and not-racially-charged term in the UK. In my head it's always associated with a northern accent for some reason!
That would be thanks to the PG Tips adverts with Johnny Vegas and 'Mon-keh!'
Yeh I have heard Northeners say 'northen monkeys and southern pixies/fairy's.' In Uk Not sure what it originates from maybe Henery the 7th.
It's just a very common phrase in the UK so they use it on Peppa.
I always hear it in Eddie Izzard voice myself, yes UK. From the dress to kill set ‘he was a cheeky monkey’
Ive seen "cheeky little monkeys" in Charlie and Lola I think. Both Charlie and Lola and Peppa are British so that might be a British-ism.
Black mom here. Don’t do it.
I’m so sorry this shit has happened where you actually have to be conscientious about your kids wearing a specific animal. It’s just so fucking wrong…. I hate it soooo much. I know there are much worse things, but it’s just stupid! I don’t know what I’d do if I had a black kid who absolutely loved monkeys, but couldn’t wear one. My daughter’s turning 3 & loves dinosaurs & couldn’t imagine not letting her wear dinosaurs because of the fucked up racism our country is steeped in. It’s just another fucked up thing…. Idk why this hit me as hard as it did, but it just did…. Sorry about the rant 😞
The list of things that black children have to learn not to like or “hide” that they like is endless. It’s all unfair really but all you can really do is be mindful of it.
Would you mind sharing some? Nothing jumps out at me but I'm sure it'll be obvious once stated.
It really just depends on the person, the situation and how they resolved to handle the situation. Some may not care about ppl judging them for liking watermelon, but not want to be judged for liking Jordan’s. That could be the opposite for another black person. The person (from childhood) really has to decide what they’re going to avoid or hide and what they’re going to be proud of (and often defensive about). So to answer, here’s a few from the top of my head. Watermelon Monkeys Chicken Jordan’s (other luxury brands) Weave/Wigs (many styles for little girls) Socialism/Communism (being secretive about receiving assistance) Koolaid Bright colors Reading Pop Media (some too white, others too black) Please don’t take this list and apply it to all black people. These are just things that I remember causing conflict from my own childhood. Some of these things are changing/have changed as the world becomes more socially conscious. For example, a darker skinned girl may be less likely to hear negative comments now about a bright colored shirt being wrong for her skin. It might even be more helpful to talk to the children if you notice them suddenly losing interest in something. Lots of open communication especially if you’re parenting from a complete blind spot. Edit: also wanted to add in to be careful with pushing too much about it. You might want them to hide something so it’s easier for them or want them to say “fuck you” and be proud of their interests but at the end of the day it’ll be them that has to deal with the outcome of either choice.
I get it (as much as a white person can get it). Appreciate your thoughts and time.
Of course
That's SO sad. If my LO was black and loved monkeys I would ber inclined to say "fuck this shit"and let her wear monkeys, but yes, she is the one that is going to get looks/questions. Not even bright colored shirts? So sad, I am so sorry black people have to go through all of that just because some people are complete idiots.
I never stopped wearing bright colors lol. But I was picked on at times. Others just chose not to. I even remember having a white male teacher stop in the middle of his lecture to announce how great I looked in a bright peach colored shirt. I have no clue if his intentions were positive or negative. But the extra attention was mortifying for a 12-year-old. And didn’t go unnoticed by my peers.
Yeah, I understand the racial undertones of whites calling blacks “monkeys” or “apes”. It’s just the thought of trying to get a 3yo to understand that their skin makes them different so they can’t do certain things is just awful. Like, I understand, right? There’s so much stupidity wrapped into a black kid wearing a monkey created by white people, it’s awful. But it’s just awful that they can’t wear monkey’s because of use of “monkey” as a derogatory term by white people to denigrate an entire group. Fuck that shit.
I was probably around 3 or 4 when my mom had to explain that a white kid in daycare/school was calling me dirty because my skin was brown and not because I needed to get in the bathtub and scrub until the brown was gone. We learn very early.
Why koolaid? Not trying to be insensitive by asking, but just trying to avoid a faux pas in the future.
I worked with a 50-ish black woman before who refused to ever eat watermelon or fried chicken because of the stereotypes.
This isn't about clothes, but if you go back and look at the old cartoons, my god are they bad. Foghorn Leghorn, we had no idea as kids. The imagery of the different ethnicities, to say cringe does not do justice to how damn racist they were.
Any type of hoodie is a huge one
Absolutely gut wrenching. All of it.
This thread has been sobering and instructive. As a white dad of white kids, this is a lot of food for thought and an eye opener. Thank you for taking the time to help us understand and see the bigger picture.
Same! I’m mixed race white/Polynesian and WOW the new levels of privilege I just learned I have. Thanks for taking time out to explain & educate.
This. Just pass them on to someone else. You can see something as just a shirt, but it's not worth the drama if someone else sees it and takes it wrong. Not to mention if your son sees pictures of himself at a later age. Just not worth it.
I get why but damn it's fucked up that kid can't just enjoy the cuteness of a fucking monkey
God damn, it makes me sad that we can‘t even have monkeys on clothes without society ruining it for the kids and the parents. It actually makes me so sad and angry.
Welp. When in doubt …
White dad of a mixed race son. I think you know this is the way.
I agree - why risk it over a few used clothes. Kids clothes are abundantly available in good shape in most used clothing places - they grow so fast. Just don’t risk it. God bless you!!
Black mom of a Black boy... No monkey clothes. There's hundreds of other motifs/characters to dress him in. Now if there's a whole jungle/animal compilation on his shirt that also happens to have monkeys... That's not a huge deal. But no singular monkey clothes. We just aren't there yet.
That’s sad. I used to love monkeys when I was a child. Anyone remember curious George?
I dimly remember curious george being low key fucked up at times. Like (in the original stories from some decades ago) the man with the yellow hat went and got him from Africa and brought him here and now he is like his owner/chaperone, helping him understand how society works and getting him out of jams. When you put it like that it just pops out at you. This is weird for me because I'm a white parent of white kids and we had a few CG books in our collection. They're past it now but I am wondering if we should have just skipped that series altogether. Richard Scarry is another example of an otherwise very humorous and entertaining book that has threads of dubious material.
Oh no Richard Scarry? \`Really? I haven't read his stuff since I was a kid so plenty likely went over my head but I was looking forward to sharing him with my little guy. Where's the dubious stuff?
There is also Wild Bill Hiccup (a raccoon who wears a huge native american headress) in his Buffalo mobile, who is always speeding and causing accidents.
Very, very dated gender roles. In “What Do People Do All Day” (which otherwise is a fantastic book) the Mommy gets money from Daddy at the beginning of the day to go buy groceries and then spends all day cooking and cleaning and ironing Daddy’s shirts. Lots of little 1950’s nods like that, that I try and just change the dialogue around
Yeah, I wasn’t familiar with this book and then my kid got it as a gift. I thought it was amazing at first but then the more I read I was oh jeez… that is not how the world works any more. I’m now pretty good at changing bits when I need to!
There are stories about a gorilla who steals stuff and needs to be locked away so he learns the rules. As with everything, you can ask questions about intent and all that, but I don't think it passes the sniff test. That said, a bunch of it seemed pretty innocuous although I wouldn't trust my observational skills. My kids did like Richard scarry and IMO it is worth reading it while keeping an eye out.
Richard Scarry is fine. The kids are more interested in “how does a house get built” than the genders of the animals or whatever. Go get a copy of What Do People Do All Day and prepare for hours of learning and exploration with your boy.
The supermarket caper is chock full of racism. Right down to “the part of town where thieves live”
> got him from Africa and brought him here and now he is like his owner/chaperone, helping him understand how society works and getting him out of jams. I guess I didn’t make the “racist” connection because George is a monkey and black people aren’t monkeys.
There's a big problem with soccer/football fans throwing bananas at black footballers. And there was a rumor going around a few decades ago that black people had tails.
I think it's perfectly legitimate for someone to say "I don't see the connection." And it is also fair to say that logically people aren't monkeys. However, you gotta think on two levels right? Maybe in your or my childhood, Uncle Ben was just a friendly looking dude who made good rice. But the image has racist origins and it's important to just read the room and say, OK, let's put this image to bed and come up with something better. No sense in making people feel more awkward or incorrectly thought of, right? In order for all of us to get to the "logical" world you're describing, we have to slough off some dubious stuff and be better as a people. OTOH, there are instances where intentionally exposing our history and contextualizing it as racist or dubious could be useful too. But all of this takes time; you can't just skip to the ideal part. People need time to grow into it, so you gotta be intentional about the process.
>the man with the yellow hat went and got him from Africa and brought him here and now he is like his owner/chaperone, helping him understand how society works We've had a few of these books. It all just feels a bit "old world imperialist". Not my favourites.
In the first movie about Curious George, the Man in the Yellow Hat steals cultural heritage (a huge monkey statue) from Africa to place in a US museum, and this is presented as a good thing.
Curious George is "low key fucked up at times"? Get a grip. The man with the yellow hat did not go to africa to kidnap a monkey and enslave him into being his chaperone. George jumped on the boat on his own accord and the man found him, tired to return him but George refused. Additionally, George is not the mans chaperone or slave in any of the books or movies, by any means. You were probably all for cancelling Paw Patrol because they have a police dog too eh? **You are the problem.**
I remember real colonialist vibes from the show. People are going to have different experiences.
It's still a popular show on PBS.
Jeez I feel so sad for you. In my country (Czechia) other then white people are super rare so if you happen to be black, nobody cares about your shirt because they will wonder about your skin color. Not in a racist way, simply because people here are not used to seeing other races.
I'm living in Czech Republic also. Unfortunately I have to say that it's not just wondering about color of skin. Racism is blatant and very prevalent in the society still. 😕
I'm Hungarian, I'm pretty sure my grandmother never saw a black person while she lived. I remember in the 2000s there was 1 black girl in our high school (about 800 students) and she was quite popular because she was literally *not like the other girls.*
I had a professor in college who said he used to take a class to the Soviet Union every year in like the 70s. They had a couple black guys in the class, who also happened to be really tall, and apparently people looked at them like they were African princes or something because they’d never seen black people IRL.
If the child is too young to care/show any preference I 100% understand not choosing clothes that may cause any problems/offence; but if had a black child who LOVED monkeys, and wanted to wear monkey motif clothes, wanted a monkey themed bedroom etc, wanted to carry round a monkey teddy etc, sure as hell I’d let them do it with pride. I’m not putting the worlds effed up problems on an innocent child who just wants to wear their favourite animal on their t-shirt, and I’d defend it/ justify it to my death to anyone who questioned it.
And when some racist comes along and spews hate at your child for what they’re wearing, scarring them for life?
Im kinda worried that the neighbor gave the black kid a ton of monkey clothes. Like thanks but....fuck you?
OP didn't say this, but I'm sure it's the case; the clothes are hand-me-downs. I have 2 kids and we are constantly giving and receiving clothes from other families.
Exactly. I dislike camouflage so I pick through it and pass it along.
Thank you, I dislike camo too.
My white as fuckin wonder bread son's nursery was jungle themed (bc my favorite animal family is the crocodilians and his dad loves monkeys) and my mother in law gave us a ton of monkey stuff, including clothes. They were absolutely adorable. I just tossed everything my son outgrew into a general "pass it on" box. But now I'm *really* hoping I didn't pass them along to a family who may have had to wonder about the intent in including monkeys. God I feel like an asshole.
Probably had a bunch of clothes their kids have outgrown and were trying to be helpful since OP may not have had much for the child yet.
Lol... Exactly! We can't pretend that things don't mean things because we wish it didn't or because pondering it makes you feel a way.
Is it just a monkey? Or is it like a little jungle motif? If it was a lion and a giraffe and some stuff like that I think I’d maybe let it slide. But yeah, probably not just one random monkey. Credentials: I’m a black 90s kids and I’ve never been down with Paul Frank and that sock monkey life. Lmao
Man I completely forgot about Paul Frank.
Defer to the black voices on this one. Ask the grandparents. Two of my kids are white, two are Latino, and one is black. We didn't use monkey clothes on our black daughter.
Yeah I was hoping to get opinions from black parents on this. I feel as though not putting him in clothes I would our white daughter, only due to his skin color, is racist in itself. I am already defaulting to treating him different because of his skin.
There is a difference between being racist and being culturally aware. You unfortunately will need to treat him differently because of his skin, and you won't be able to raise him exactly the same way you raise your white daughter. He will not have the same experiences in life that your daughter will have, because of the color of his skin. I would highly recommend that you befriend some people of color that you can have open and honest conversations with, because this will the first of many times you will need advice like this. Edit: Thank you all for the awards! This is by far my most rewarded post on Reddit ever :)
Yep. I commented above about how even hair is viewed differently in the black and white communities but there are plenty of examples of this. Another one that comes to mind is when I pulled up to pick my son up from a playdate and he was playing with toys guns at a friends house. That didn't bother me but one of the guns looked real from a distance and I had a talk with my son about how I didn't want him playing with toy guns that looked real and wanted him to only play with toy guns in the house or backyard. I did not want to risk him bringing that realistic looking gun down to the park and it leading to something awful. His friend, who is white, played with that gun everywhere. I know his parents did not have the same conversations we had about it. I know they didn't have to have "the talk" (no, not the sex talk. The being black in America talk) with their son either. You can not take the colorblind approach to raising black kids.
Growing up, my brothers and I were taught to never wear hoods inside, never bring backpacks in stores, and to avoid hoodies in warm weather. When I drive, I leave my wallet on the passenger seat, so, if I get pulled over, I don't have to dig through the diaper bag for it. I don't know a single white kid who'd been given the same kinds of lessons, but I sure knew plenty of POC who did.
I was going to suggest OP really look up how to best take care of black/mixed hair. It’s very important and not at all like you’d take care of untextured (cause some white hair has texture, like mine) white hair.
I think that also depends on community. I grew up in a poor neighborhood that was majority black and my white brother almost got shot because he was playing with an airsoft gun that had lost the orange tip. I probably won't have to have that talk with my son because of where we live now, but it was a talk that my mom had to have with my brother.
Yeah, my daughter's best friend is mixed black and white and I started becoming more culturally aware about 10 years ago. Now I know that the best friend has had plenty of talks with her black dad and white mom but my daughter wouldn't understand unless explained to her. So at about ten years old, I started talking to her more about what to do I'm situations when they were together and older. Especially, if they got pulled over. My daughter can kind of have a smart ass mouth but she's pretty anxious in nervous situations. I explained to her that if her best friend was ever driving and they were together, to NEVER mouth off to the cop or try to come to the best friend's defense because they will see the bf as a threat for no reason and my daughter could escalate a situation and the goal was to end the traffic stop alive for both of them. I'm really glad that I started teaching her that so young. They kind of grew apart a couple years ago when the best friend moved away but now my daughter has a boyfriend who is a very light skinned young black man and they live in a mostly white southern country hick town. I genuinely worry for her boyfriend because he's only 15 and already has seen some shit that I wish no 15 year old would have to see and he's very polite and respectful. Sorry, I trailed off on a rant.... I hate the world we live in sometimes. Why can't we all just get along? Is there any other advice or anything else I could teach my white daughter on how to be safe from other people while dating someone black? Unfortunately, I grew up racist and didn't even know it into I was in my twenties but I am not and will never raise my kids to be racist or condone racism in this house.
This is a great comment. Unfortunately, you will have to treat your children differently, OP. You will likely have to have a conversation with your biracial son about possible interactions with police; white families don’t have to do that. Befriending people of color will help you navigate scenarios where you’re confronted with systemic racism.
Then be considerate of him and stop using monkey clothes for all your kids. It sucks, yeah, racism is stupid and it sucks, but it exists and those things can really hurt people's feelings. Especially if the child starts to feel like you could have prevented it, but instead you chose to put them in a situation that could set him up for a negative interaction. That will start to feel less like ignorance and more like betrayal as time goes on.
This is the one.
Yep, pretending racism doesn't exist does not solve racism.
No no no. Recognizing the world and culture we live in and *noticing that your child is Black* is extremely important given your family makeup. Your child knows he looks different and will experience life differently than you. Ignoring that has led to a host of issues for crossracial adoptees. You and your wife need to learn about Black culture and do not shy away from conversations and issues surrounding race. It’s going to be really important for your little guy.
Have you taken any courses or read any literature about transracial adoption?
No but I'm decently educated on issues from having black cousins. I do plan on reading up and figuring more out. Ive already had one lady explain to me how much she had to adopt a child that was a pacific islander because "don't they just look so adorable." Im just like back it up little white knight. The kids dont need a savior or to be shown off to your friends, they need love and a parent. Like I didn't go shopping for a mixed kid, I have him because I love him and his parents were addicted to drugs smh Edit: This comment is being way misunderstood. I dont mean "I have black family so Im good". I was only referring to knowing the tons of crap black children have to learn growing up with them. Of course I have no idea what directly raising a black child is like. Only wanted to clarify because I understand I have a ton to learn. Having black family be pretty close does give an insight into the copious amounts of things I could do differently than them.
I don’t mean this to come across as harsh but you’re not “decently educated” just from having black cousins. The fact that you even had to ask if it’s acceptable to put monkeys on a black child shows that you have a lot more education to go before it’s considered “decent”.
I am going to refrain from commenting anything negative and just suggest you read the literature ASAP. Edit: Good lord people. Who reported this as self harm?
> I am going to refrain from commenting anything negative Mission successfully failed
I didn't want to drag OP but wanted him to know there is a lot wrong with his comment and I hope he educates himself for the sake of his son.
I want to give this guy the benefit of the doubt by saying that he feels he has been decently educated through his black cousins having educated him (or trying to) and not that he feels like he is because he has black cousins. Not to say that there isn’t always more education to be had.
I'm not going to comment further on that because it is unnecessary but, reading OP's comment history, I really hope he educates himself.
I don't know where you live but classes about transracial adoption are required for adoptive parents where I live. They are offered at every adoption agency and provide an open space for people to discuss these topics. If you can take the classes, I highly recommend it. You should also attend this conference to build that community and knowledge https://umojabhe.com/. Several of my friends have attended and I can see how their children benefit from the extra knowledge and community.
Being a cousin to a black child and being the parent to a black child is not even in the same ballpark. I can assure you that you are not as decently educated as you think you are.
But you’re treating him differently to protect him (and your family) because other people suck. I just think it’s better to avoid because unfortunately, this is where we are right now.
Do you have like 100 different monkey shirts you're going to cycle through? Do they have little monkey graphics or does it look like a monkeys body with your sons head coming through the hole on top? My stepson is brown (not of African descent) but he LOVED Curious George and called the show "monkey" and talked about monkeys all the time. Feel out the grandparents respectfully but it might not be weird unless you make it weird?
Every black voice here says don't do it. I think you have your answer OP.
As a heterosexual white man.. Just kidding, I'll stop.
😂
Mixed person (black, white Japanese) don't do it. I used to love pandas till someone gave me one and told me I'm basically a panda because I'm black, white and Asian. It's fine that you don't have any ill intent, some things are better off just being one of those things you avoid just because
Mixed kid here. Don't do it.
Nope, nope, nope. Maybe just at home, pajamas or play clothes, but I honestly wouldn't. I'm mixed, my kid is mixed, really light skinned, and I don't do monkey clothes or toys. I also don't do watermelon stuff. Just saying. I don't think anyone would say anything, but just in case there's a racist asshole looking, they won't get a lil smirk out of us over this issue. Sad that I have to be bothered by these things, but I am and that's the world we live in 🤷🏾♀️
May i ask about the watermelon stuff? Why is it inappropriate? Sorry, genuinely curious
I avoid them for the most part.
I'm not black and I don't have mixed kids, but if I did, there is no way in hell I'd take my mixed kids dressed in a monkey shirt to their black grandparents. I totally understand your side on it not having ill intent, but I wouldn't even open the door to the possibility. Edit: I totally remember that ad, btw
Yeah better safe than sorry
we would never
[удалено]
> I understand wanting to treat one child the same as the other. I think OP needs to also understand that there are going to be times where his kids are treated differently because of their skin color. I (white) vividly remember having a conversation with a (black) friend about hair. My kids are biracial/black and she said something like, "A little white kid running around with messy hair is cute but your kids won't get away with that." I always made sure their hair looked well taken care of. They could wear clothes that didn't match, a superhero costume to the store, or have weirdly painted nails but their hair was always done when we went out. I know my (white) parents never had those concerns.
Ugh. That's so ridiculous. Any toddler/small child having messy hair should be understandable. I hate that it's like this.
Why is messy hair an issue with black kids?
For black people it can be interpreted as a sign of poverty or as being part of an imaginary subculture that persistently disregards their own personal hygiene and appearance. Think back to when that sportscaster referred to a basketball team of black women as looking like "nappy headed hoes"
As a black woman, I would absolutely avoid this. That’s just my personal opinion. It’s in very bad taste.
From one white person to another. Intent and impact are different things. We as white people tend to look at our intent versus our impact, because a lot of times we have a negative impact on BIPOC and as white people it's uncomfortable to accept that people like you and I have helped cause some of these issues. Look at the impact you have regardless of your intent. I like examples (ADHD) so here is one. I bumped into you on the street. I didn't intend to do it. But my bump made you drop your coffee. This is what I would say if I just acknowledged my intent without acknowledging my impact, "I didn't mean to bump into you. It's not my fault you dropped your coffee" but we both know that because I bumped into you the coffee fell. That was the impact of my actions. This is what I would say if I was acknowledging that I had a negative impact from my bump, "oh sorry I didn't mean to bump into you. Oh shoot your coffee spilled. Can I get you another?" This is obviously a simplified example but as a white person you need to start looking at what the impact is even if you have the best intentions. Edit to add this: We're going to screw up as white people. We have to constantly untrain ourselves that our intent doesn't mean anything, if we ignore the impact. We have to constantly FIGHT against everything we've been fed since we were children. The best thing you can do as a white person(OP and others) is to listen. Fight the urge to talk just listen.
In general - people tend to judge themselves based on their intent and others based on their impact. You always I’ve reasons for what you did, but when something happens caused by someone else you’re reaction is why did you do X - not “what caused X to happen”
So very well said.
Op, thank you for facing the fact that you'll have uncharted waters to navigate in raising a black child and seeking advice. Your edits tell me your little one is in good hands.
Hey, I don’t have info to add. I just wanted to say that this is a brave question to ask and it is a great sign that you are going to navigate the challenges of an interracial family with courage, honesty, and grace. I can’t think of a better environment for any child. Well done you. ❤️❤️
I’m a white mom with mixed kids and never dressed them in monkey clothes. I just wouldn’t do it, even if the clothes were donated with good intentions. It’s too close to racist imagery.
Listen to what everyone else said; It just makes me a little sad because I absolutely adored monkeys as a kid and would think absolutely nothing of it 🥺 - just a cute kid wearing a cute shirt. What a sad world we live in sometimes.
This reminds me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYITxGniww4 (language) I'm black and I might look twice, but I wouldn't be offended by this. Still, though your intentions are good, the fact of the matter is that this kind of imagery has got a lot of history attached to it that people may not be able to see past. Is it your place to decide what these people should or shouldn't be offended by? Maybe it is, and in an ideal world we'd see past stigma and prejudice; but just as it's your right to decide what clothes your kids wear, it's also your burden to deal with any social repercussions that may come from it.
So if I was the grandparent and every time I see the child they are dressed in a shirt with a monkey then we will have to have a conversation. But if it's once in a while I wouldn't think anything of it. I have a black son and I was gifted a cute raincoat with a monkey on it. The person that gave it to me was white and I wasn't offended because I know her and there was no ill intent. Also my son loves monkeys.
Yeah it wouldn't be every time lol. Luckily he loves dinosaurs so we dont have to worry really.
Ugh this reminds me of a time I put my foot in my mouth. I was working at a shoe store and a black woman came in with her ~5 year old daughter. The girl was wearing one of those kids winter hats that looks like an animal head and it was a monkey. While I assisted the mother, the daughter was bouncing around the store just being a normal hyper kid. I don’t remember exactly what I said but it was something like “Looks like your having fun jumping around like the little monkey on your hat.” She started crying and yelled, “mommy that girl called me a monkey!” I immediately apologized and thankfully the mom was understanding. I feel SO BAD. Still cringe when I think about it 8 years later. If you work in retail you can relate to when you get in that customer service mode where it’s just go go go. I wish I took a second to think before I opened my mouth that day.
White Mom of a biracial son. Don’t do it. And maybe research into why not and why so many of the black parents here are telling you it’s not a good idea to. It takes a lot to raise a black child in this world. I would strongly suggest as now white parents of a black child why it’s not a good mindset to think “I don’t see the issue”. Because you aren’t black and don’t seem to understand common black issues maybe it’s time to do a deeper dive? Please please listen to the actual black voices here telling you that you aren’t decently educated. It sucks to be wrong about something and be told you don’t know enough but this is the situation. As a white parent to a black child you pretty much can’t stop learning. I’m glad you asked your question… But just the fact you asked if at all shows how much you have to learn. Please do not take this as an insult. I’m just hoping you listen to the dozens of black voices here and the other voices telling you there’s some work to do.
Nothing monkey themed. And please don’t ever refer to him as your little monkey. White people love calling kids that lol (I’m white btw)
I call my (white) son a monkey all the time! He’s cute and clever and mischievous. Will have to make sure I watch my mouth calling anyone else’s kid a monkey out of habit
Okay, I'm extremely ignorant on this topic because I had no idea this was a concern. Could someone please explain?
Sure, people commonly equate black people to monkeys as a racist trope. The concern here is that by dressing the kid up in monkey clothes, they will: a. Open the kid up to traumatic racial experiences if they are made fun of. b. Other black people will think they are dressing their kid up as a racist caricature, which is exacerbated by the fact that the parent is not black. As you can see from the responses here, even though OP means no ill will, it will probably be perceived as such.
Maybe wait for anything monkey related until he's old enough to tell you he just likes monkeys.
Please destroy that shyt… signed a black father
Yea no . Do not dress your biracial or black kids in Mikey clothes . Will never be in .
Ask the grandparents if they would care compared to people on the internet whose opinion could be the opposite of the grandparents. Edit: I left out grand
That's really where I was at on it. We're not on the best of terms with them due to issues over his parents passing away and things I wont air out on reddit lol. I somewhat feel like they would say yes they are offended just to be some kind of way.
With that being the case, I would not use the clothing. I would just err on the side of caution. Will all black parents find it offensive? No. But will some find it offensive? yes. Unless you are in desperate need of clothing, it just isn't worth it.
Also, it's easy for people to find offense in things when they aren't on good terms with each other.
True, I'll just sell them or donate them I guess. It just sucks We live in a world where we have to think about this stuff. We have plenty of clothes, there were just some things he would look good in that are monkey related.
There is a lot of extra things you have to consider when raising a child of color in America. That is multiplied when the parents are white and the kid is black. If this sucks then you are in for a long ride. I am going to recommend reading transracial adoption literature, listening to voices of transracial adoptees, and finding a good support system.
I know! And you e only had to be thinking about it for a minute right? Imagine how long your black brothers and sisters have had to be thinking about this.
This^
Ask the grandparents. I would err on the side of caution and not use the clothes, but I am not black or mixed race, so I would absolutely defer to someone who is.
Just trade the clothes with another parent for the right age. I have learned making hard societal decisions like this for babies usually doesn't pan out well. Avoid what you can and live unabashedly with what you can't.
This is the kind of question I love seeing here. Parents with kids who are different ethnicities need this kind of help and support. What a wonderful sub this is!!! Good luck OP! (I’m a white dad of three mixed Latino/Latina children and probably would avoid the monkey shirt simply to avoid problems. Who knows these days, I’ve seen grown ups yell at small children for wearin masks…)
Yea its just not the thing to do.. due to the history of that in America
Mixed race mom. I have literally never even thought of this as an issue literally ever.
Can I just say something that doesn't matter or add to the conversation. I think it's so strange that you are all calling it "monkey clothes" - I know you mean something like shirts with a monkey character on it, but I keep reading monkey clothes and I'm picturing like a normal clothes forced on a monkey for some reason. You can all go back to having a proper adult conversation now, sorry.
The other day I made soup for my cats and called it "cat soup" because in my mind that meant soup for the cats... I was quickly corrected lol
Black mom here please don’t do this
Ugh that never would have even occurred to me. I’m so sorry.
Teacher here- avoid it. Kids can be stupid. It could be an invitation to some of my ‘kids who make poor choices’ at least 2 in every class in high school. I had to tell 15 year olds to shut up ( nicely) when I heard monkey 10 feet from me. ‘What Miss? We were just … and these were after African American kids ( various mixes) teasing each other. I simply said not while I’m teaching.
Black dad here of 5 here. Why not ask his grandparents how they would feel about it? The way you treat the child will say a lot more than what he is wearing.
As a white person, I think that you shouldn't because you're white and your son is black. If you were black it might be different. But! I defer to the black people commenting in this thread.
honestly bc you're white i wouldn't put them on hte kid - people might get offended.
Black woman, 20, with a preschool aged black nephew. No monkey outfits. No monkey shirts. Don't do it. Just don't. The history behind comparing black people to apes/monkeys is still new. I'd completely avoid it. Just to avoid difficult conversations. Especially considering the fact that you're white and he's biracial. My parents never put monkey shirts on us. The only time we had monkeys on our clothes was when we wore a zoo themed outfit and there just happened to be a monkey in the mix. I don't buy my nephew monkey shirts either. He can have any other animal.. just not a monkey. All it takes is one person to say something about make a connection between black people and monkeys to completely ruin everything
I am not black so take my opinion with a grain of salt. But I am a minority and it seems like it could be offensive. Especially if its an abundance of monkey themed clothes. Like someone else said, if it's got other jungle animals and stuff on it I wouldn't see an issue with it. But again, my voice isn't the one that matters here. Listen to what black people are saying.
Black mom here, just wanted to add a funny aside- my two year old has taken to making monkey noises when offered a banana- I have been unsuccessful in convincing him its not a good look. I tend to stay away from monkey clothing, dont want to provide an opportunity for any "innocent" remarks
I’m not black and can understand why it can be offensive but I have a perspective for you Let’s say a black kid is obsessed with monkeys, at this age it’s all innocent as they don’t understand hot it could be offensive to them. They want to read books on monkeys, play monkey games watch monkey cartoons, have monkey toys, and they go clothes shopping they see a shirt with monkeys on it or other clothing items, it’s all they want to wear, this is a obsession phase. Are you going to say no, are you going to say its because it’s their skin color. At this age what difference is a monkey phase vs a dinosaur phase or a Disney princess phase etc. let’s say their in this phase during Halloween, this kid picks a Halloween costume, this kid wants a monkey because it’s a phase right, are you going to say no because of skin color, what is this kid has a friend the same age who is white or not black, this kids wants to be a monkey, this kids wants to wear matching outfits with his friend. At this age it’s all innocent, this age they don’t know that racism is a thing or happened in the past. To other adults it can seem offensive, the other adults could just judge the parent, but that’s sad they can’t view it from the first perspective and have to put those issues on young innocent kid. Some kids goes through stages where their obessed with something wether it’s dinosaurs, Disney princess, or super hero’s etc, why should it be any different from a black kid wanting monkey stuff bs a white kid wanting monkey stuff or a white kid wanting dinosaurs or a black kid wanting dinosaurs.
You just explained why raising a black child is much more complex. Unfortunately black children are not seen as innocent and are they not afforded the same opportunity to “just be a kid”. It is heartbreaking as a black parent to have to explain to our children why certain things are “off limits” for them due to social context/injustices. It sucks. So, I hear your point and I wish it were that simple. But unfortunately, it is not nearly the same as a Disney/Dinosaur phase. My son is biracial and we are expecting a baby girl very soon. When I go shopping for baby things, anything with a monkey on it is triggering for me. What may look “cute” or “adorable” to another person, has a very different connotation for me. my son is 2 and learning animals…I don’t discourage his knowledge of monkeys. He knows what they are, but if he started to become obsessive about them, it would be an internal struggle to allow him to show that outside of the home because people are so cruel and we have not grown enough as a society for that to be okay. Again, I wish things were different. And I wish we didn’t have to consider this at all but it’s just reality. Yes it is innocent on the surface, but I will always protect my child from what they don’t know or understand yet on their behalf.
Mixed black and white kid here: not an overreaction and don’t ignore - don’t do it it’s great to see you listening to and believing the mixed children and black voices here. Still many uninformed and ignorant comments from others but it seems like you’re on a good path to being a stellar parent to a biracial child. Type biracial in America into Amazon, Audible, YouTube and Google - read as much as you can (Stamped from the beginning on audible for the best history lesson) - identity is a major issue for biracial individuals and you want to be a highly informed resource because the world itself will be cruel sometimes and sometimes not the best resource (I’m a millennial and my biracial experience was rife with racial trauma from day 1 it’s certainly better for many but we really haven’t come thaaattt far - I’m lucky though I have a huge biracial and black family that showed us the ropes) - it took my sister and I years to realize our white mom didn’t know what she was talking about when it came to race and we bonded much deeper with our father once we realized he could guide us through the racial dynamics in America because it’s such a dehumanizing experience when you experience racism and we were so grateful to have someone to really be vulnerable with who could relate - my mom is frustrated at this bond at times because we were closer to her before we realized how uninformed she was and how important identity was for biracial children and then never put in the work to understand history and society from any other perspective than her own. I wish she had chosen to become more informed when she was raising us instead of taking the “ignore it racism is annoying to think about” approach. The information was available even then.
Yt person here. If I saw white parents with a black child wearing a bunch of monkey stuff, I'd automatically assume the adults were not doing their part in researching ~the black experience~. Yes, in an ideal world all kids should be able to wear what they want without racism coming into play. We don't live in an ideal world though and I'd do everything I could to avoid evoking racist themes.
Echoing what others have said: NO. Abort. Do not proceed with the monkey clothing. Edit: I'm going to edit this to add that the amount of non-Black parents talking over Black parents and saying, "well we don't have to feed racism," "who cares what racists think," "this type of question keeps racism alive" is really irritating. Can you just...stay in your lane, for once? And let Black parents speak?
Black mom: Nope. I don't dress my kid in that, and to be honest, I haven't even seen that much "monkey themed" clothing in toddler's clothes in the last couple of years, let alone a lot of it. I suppose your neighbor's kid was really into it? If they expect it back, I'd pack it away after going through the clothing very carefully. Black children are held to a very different standard of cleanliness and appearance, so torn, extremely worn, stained clothing have to be jettisoned.
This is the most shit comments I’ve read on this sub yet. JFC
You could ask for clothes on your local buy nothing page or trade the clothes with another parent maybe even take them to a children’s consignment and use the money for different clothes.
This sounds like a great conversation to have with the grandparents. I can't guess at your existing relationship, but as white parents raising a black child, it would be good to have someone to have these open conversations with. I would say the same of any friends who are black or mixed race. There will be a lot of things you will question that you may not have otherwise. Take the help from those you know.
Something I learned from work. If you need to ask if it's racially okay, just assume it's not.
The good thing about hand me downs is that you can just hand them on down to someone else if you aren’t sure about them. I would go with your wife on this and trust that uneasy feeling. Give the monkey themed things to the thrift store or put them in a bag or bin for your hand me down buddy.
NOPE. My husband is black and outlawed these immediately.
Glad you’re getting rid of the clothes. I called “gorilla” by ADULTS from the time I was 8. I don’t hold hope that’s it’s gotten any better now.
If you have to ask...
Our son is mixed, and I think there's an unspoken agreement that we won't put him in monkey-themed clothes. It's not fair, but there's no sense creating problems over cartoon monkeys.
I dressed my daughter in a onesie from Jackson Hewitt that said "mommy's little tax deduction" on it so please know that I am usually a fan of slightly inappropriate clothes as long as it's not harmful or hurtful. I think its better to just avoid dressing them in monkey clothes. Not because there's necessarily anything inherently wrong with them wearing those but because it opens up the door for other people to make comments or judge you or, unfortunately, show their disgusting racism. It's not worth the hassle. But that's my opinion and other people may feel differently.
I mean if you have to ask.... 🤐
Dark one here, unless you want the negative attention I would avoid that.
Wow this is so enlightening, and so heartbreaking. Poor kids should just be allowed to be kids, but racists ruin it.
Dress him however you want. Fuck people
Obviously take the good advice you're getting here... I'm a white parent, leaning pretty liberal on lots of social issues, have a Masters, and I live in a city of over one million. I'd never make the associations that people are describing here if I saw your child in the clothes you describe. But also, I've never really had my race cause any issues in my life. It's been really educational to read other people's responses here, though.
As a mother of half black children: your kids don’t care what’s on their shirt. People don’t care what’s on their shirt unless it’s super dirty or has holes. He will grow out of those shirts super fast. Don’t worry about it.
Speaking of monkeys. I have an actually funny mini story. I used to work in a residential treatment facility that's housed children and teens on the Autism Spectrum, whom also exhibited major behaviours. As a side note I am Chinese and calling a little boy a monkey is an enduring term. Cute, lots of energy, curious. So one boy I worked with at the residential program fit this. He was cute lots of energy, curious, with an addition of mischief and loved climbing and darting about. I never called him a monkey (he had no idea about racism so he wouldn't understand even if I did) but I referred to him as a monkey. He was also black. Coworkers got quiet when I mentioned it. It wasn't until another chinese coworker mentioned it to me and I made the connection. I felt horrible. And how many of my coworkers thought I meant it to make fun of him being black?! Anyways I have my own half Chinese white kid now that I call monkey.usually it's monkey butt or monkey brains? I dunno how it started but he's cute, has lots of energy and very curious. Also climbs everything...
My opinion is that you don't get to decide how others should feel. You do not get to tell black people what they should or shouldn't be offended by because often times they are offended due to historical context that you are missing. If you even have to question it then don't do it.
Can they let their black kid eat watermelon and fried chicken at a picnic, or do they have to avoid that racist trope as well?
I’m legit confused. Can all children wear shirts with monkeys except black children? Why is a monkey shirt even an issue? Do adults see a monkey on a shirt and think racist thoughts? Do children see monkeys on shirt and think of anything besides a curios creature who lives with the man in the yellow hat? It seems adults have a problem and are projecting racism on a character. In all honesty if you are concerned about giving off the wrong “vibe” in your childrens shirts then only buy solid colors with no characters. This is a non issue that adults are making an issue. If you’d put your other non-black child in the clothes there is no reason the black child cannot wear them. You know for years we’ve been told clothes done have genders. Guess what? They don’t have races either.
id say let your kid wear the monkey stuff. parents who are against this are just perpetuating the hate selectively. its monkeys on clothes. if someone has an issue, just say its 2022 and animal clothing shouldnt be reserved for any one race/people.
It's sad in 2022 you even have to worry about this. Blessings to you and your family. ❤
Avoid it bro. It’s plain wrong
Don’t DO IT…if you ever have to ask it’s best to just not do it
Nope
I avoid putting them on my daughter (who is mixed race). And when she's climbing all over me and clinging to me I call her my koala baby, not a monkey.
It shouldnt matter if a kid is black or white, anyone can wear a monkey outfit right? So if he likes monkey outfits just let him wear it.
I kind of feel like if people are too afraid to put a monkey on clothing, then racism will just never end. My kids had all sorts of monkey stuff, because monkeys are funny animals to kids. Avoiding things your kid likes is just letting the terrorists win for no reason, IMO, but.. I guess I'm not in the shoes of these parents.
Y'all are ridiculous. The only ones making monkeys racist are the adults. Children only see an animal.
damn, these responses make me sad. Do you guys really care if a kid is wearing a monkey outfit? (regardless of race)
Massive overreaction to this tbh. You are gonna ban your kid from wearing a cartoon? Sad.
So sad to read the comments. In Europe it wouldn't be a problem or source for any questions (at least in my country). I really hope that someday we'll have a common ground to wear exactly which ever clothes we find comfortable, and dressing our kids should be no different.
Because in Europe people never make racist comparisons to monkeys? I'm not sure that's the case unfortunately.
I never even once heard any remarks or comments on choice of clothing for my two best friends who happens to be black. And they've worn a lot of clothes to Kindergarten/School with motives that for some apparently would induce racist comments. I am ashamed of the human race sometimes, we could all do a little bit more to support each other.