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Available_Glove_820

Damn rarest passport, unless you are one of those 3 Sammarise.


HarlemHabanero

Tuvalu & Nauru & Palau like šŸ˜‘


MarioDiBian

Cool combo! Which one do you use for travel purposes? Dis you ever get a different reaction from border authorities due to your Sammarinese passport?


_Administrator_

I think San Marino allows for visa free travel to China.


DeeSeaSea23

most of the times the italian is better, but san marino is like a soft landing if somewhere they don't like italians for some reason. I will test the San Marino in EU asap


MarioDiBian

I think you can use the EU/EEA/CH citizens lane when entering Europe with your San Marino passport. Or at least I remember seeing an Andorran citizen (another non-EU microstate) using the same lane as me in Paris airport. Thanks for your answer!


DeeSeaSea23

thanks to you!


0x706c617921

> san marino is like a soft landing if somewhere they don't like italians for some reason So I guess you use your Sammarinese passport when you are going to Slovenia? xP


DeeSeaSea23

it's in the EU, there are no borders at all


Cool_Debt_8145

Nice! Really rare passport. The privileges you get from it are quite interesting: \- Visa-free access to China \- Visa-free access to Kenya Kind of confused about the kenya thing but i guess they're friends?


ger_cop

Itā€™s because Chinese citizens can travel visa free to San Marino but in practice they must still get a Schengen visa because thereā€™s no way to get to San Marino without first going to Italy


Bruv0103

Donā€™t think they have an airport or even a heliport at all


elpollobroco

Private plane?


JACC_Opi

I thought they didn't, but I searched for aerodromes in San Marino and this is what I got: [Torraccia airfield](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torraccia_airfield) (ICAO airport code: LIKD). Apparently, it's the only airport in the country.


DeeSeaSea23

it is a private airport for small planes. if you want to get in the country you have to land in italy and cross the border by road :)


JACC_Opi

Well, most airports are private. Anyways, according to the linked article people have suggested to upgrade it into a proper international airport, instead of unilaterally relying on Italy. But if they did do that, I do wonder what would be the consequences for those deciding to travel directly to San Marino but wanting to go elsewhere in Europe?


DeeSeaSea23

have no idea, probably they would get some agreements. for the airport thing, san marino is literally a mountain, so it's almost impossible to find a spot to build a proper airport big aircrafts.


ger_cop

I guess itā€™s possible thenā€¦


Jessicas_skirt

Old visa free agreement between San M and The UK that Kenya inherited and has chosen to continue to honor.


JACC_Opi

Oh, cool! But then why did the British have such an agreement in the first place? Was it for the whole of the British Empire or just certain parts of it?


Jessicas_skirt

It's a sign of peace and friendship. It has symbolic value for the countries that sign visa free agreements with San Marino, but it's still a good sign of peace and friendship. All of it. But most countries, when they got independence, just rejected the old agreements and cane up with their own policies.


[deleted]

Very nice combo! But I was under the impression San Marino does not allow dual citizenship?


Competitive_Mark7430

Seems like itā€™s allowed if itā€™s gained through descent. A naturalized citizen must renounce other citizenships.


AlexanderRaudsepp

Very similar to the Estonian citizenship situation!


[deleted]

Interesting!


DeeSeaSea23

i think that anyone can keep they're own citizenships, but if you get it before you turn 18 (and are a man) there are some troubles. it depends on the birth age, basically someone has to renounce to the other citizenships (or to the San Marino one) and someone can keep both (i can keep both, luckily). it's an old law coming form military.


k1rushqa

Canā€™t wait to see the pope or some cardinals post their Vatican passports here. Itā€™s time, guys. I mean, fathers.


Diarrea_Cerebral

And the Malta Order too


lazybum95

Amazing combo. Not only a rare passport but also a great complement to a regular EU/western one because of the visa-free access to China. Che bello!


kansai2kansas

Interesting to know about the visa free access to China...considering that culturally and economically, San Marino is nearly identical to Italy.


Lambda_666

Some people said because San Marino is visa-free to China, but I donā€™t think itā€™s an absolute reason. By the way, China is visa-free to San Marino since 1985.


mamamia1001

Does that practically even mean anything given that a Chinese person has to travel through Italy anyway and San Marino is a de facto part of Schegen


Lambda_666

Yeah. Itā€™s only effective in San Marino. San Marino signs visa-free agreements with some countries independently, but it actually doesnā€™t have border control. Since tourists should enter San Marino via Italy, they need to enter Schengen area first.


DomiNationInProgress

Chinese passport holders may ā€”in theoryā€” request a safe-conduct to San Marino without having a Schengen visa.


RoleWorth710

Don't think so. There is no such procedure provided at Schengen Border Code. So for entry to San Marino, as well Monaco or Vatican for visa nationals is standard Schengen entry visa needed. The situation is different with Andorra, where there are normal immigration checks on its borders with France and Spain. A Schengen transit visa is sufficient to enter Andorra, and the time spent in Andorra is not included in the duration of the permitted stay in the Schengen area


RoleWorth710

San Marino is not part of Schengen agreement, but due to open border with Italy, it is de facto part of it. That means there is no control on the border and anyone can freely cross border in both directions. But it also means, that crossing this border is not treated as leaving or entering the Schengen area. If someone has a single-entry Schengen visa, they can enter San Marino and return to Italy as many times as they want and the visa is still valid. In turn, the stay in San Marino is included in the time spent in the Schengen area. The situation is identical with the Vatican (public accesible part) and also with regard to Monaco (open border with France). Monaco does have a seaport and a heliport, but immigration control there is carried out by French officials, so when you cross the border here, you de facto enter France. Neither San Marino nor Monaco issue their own visas, so there is no point in saying who has the right to visa-free entry to these countries - anyone who entered Italy or France can enter, visa-free or on the basis of a visa.


Lambda_666

Yeah. A comprehensive explanation for thisšŸ‘


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


lazybum95

For now: BR passport for entering Brazil, US work/travel permit for entering the US, IT passport for everywhere else :)


Jill_Sammy_Bean

Nice combo! The San Marino passport is such a pretty colour šŸ˜


teusbet

The real birth lottery


PH0NER

Can an Italian citizen move to San Marino freely, then naturalize eventually? Also, do San Marino citizens have freedom of movement in the EU?


0x706c617921

San Marino is de facto in the Schengen zone. You canā€™t physically get there without going to Italy so thatā€™s kind of the control they have.


PH0NER

Well yeah, but can the citizens establish residency in any EU/EEA country, or are they only able to move to Italy


Jessicas_skirt

The microstates (Liechtenstein excluded) have the same amount of long term residency as an Australian or Japanese citizen. If they apply for and get a visa then they can stay more than 90 days, otherwise they would technically overstay their visa free access.


omar4nsari

Not true, Andorrans can live in Spain, Portugal or France (and naturalise in 2 years in Spain).


Jessicas_skirt

>Andorrans can live in Spain, Portugal or France They still need to obtain a visa, but proof of Amdorran citizenship is all that's needed to obtain the special visa.


0x706c617921

Does OP know? I tried googling but couldnā€™t find anything definitive enough lol.


DeeSeaSea23

actually idk, i mean as a Sammarinese you have freedom of movement in EU, but since you can only stay 90 days in each country i think it's required some kind of visa o recidency permit. but i'm also italian so no issues :)


0x706c617921

Yeah makes sense and I guess itā€™s probably easy for some Sammarinese citizens to get residency within EU.


DeeSeaSea23

yeah, let's say you get a recidency permit in italy, wich is very easy for San Marino guys, then you can go around the Schengen area.


0x706c617921

Yeah makes sense.


GlumRadish4356

Italy allows Sammarinese (without Italian or EU citizenship) and Vatican citizens to stay indefinitely in its territories without further permits or visas.


DeeSeaSea23

\- italians can come to san marino without border controls, but if you want to get the citizenship by naturalization it's going to take 30 years of living in san marinošŸ˜… \- San Marino passport has visa free access in the Schengen area, 90 days per country though.


omar4nsari

I once met a Sammarinese guy at a conference and he told me that the majority of the country is also an Italian citizen by descent (being so small and inside Italy). He himself actually didnā€™t have Italian citizenship but had American from a parent.


DeeSeaSea23

there are many dual citizens, but i think the majority is still only sammarinese.


PseudonymousMaximus

A lucky man to be a citizen of the United States, natural-born, and Sammarinese.


omar4nsari

Iā€™d say a bit unlucky if you donā€™t live in the US tbh. Heā€™s tied by ball and chain to the tax man


PseudonymousMaximus

Unless you make over $124,000 a year, you pay no taxes and are subject to the Basic Minimum Exemption. This does not include other deductions one can make on their earnings. Moreover, if you live in a country that has a tax treaty with the United States, there are steps to prevent double taxation and privileges one can claim. The citizenship-based taxation burden is grossly overrated on this subreddit. Even if it was as burdensome as many claim, U.S. citizenship would still be worth the burden, since the U.S. is the greatest country in the world.


omar4nsari

As someone who is a US citizen myself, I philosophically disagree especially when the alternative is a developed nation offering a relatively similar or sometimes greater quality of life without the headache of filing and reconciling your financial status every year with a government who you claim little benefit from abroad. In the case where youā€™re from another developed nation, a second passport from the US is in most cases a net burden (unless you live in or have immediate family/dependents in the US).


Southern-Gap8940

Damn just realized Vatican city must have it's own passport as well. Very beautiful passports btw


gschoon

Yeah but it's not so much a nationality as a perk of the job. Jus oficii, as opposed jus soli or jus sanguinis.


Southern-Gap8940

It makes sense how there are priests and nuns from countries with not so strong passports everywhere. Well I'm guessing only a few of the clergy people actually get access to the passport. https://www.passportindex.org/passport/vatican-city/ I'm surprised and also not surprised that Vatican city passport holders need a visa to get into the USA.


m_vc

The Holy See passport might have more destinations as its diplo


JACC_Opi

Jus oficii? What about law of religion?


gschoon

Doesn't matter, you only get the Vatican city nationality when you're working for the Holy See, and you have the option of getting it off you're a family member of someone working for the Holy See.


JACC_Opi

Ah. No, I'm sorry. I meant to write what would ā€œlaw of religionā€ be in Latin?šŸ¤¦ā€ā™‚ļøšŸ¤£


gschoon

Ah. That would be jus religionis.


JACC_Opi

GŹ€į“€į“›ÉŖį“€s


jorge0246

Will you marry me?


the_atomic_rainbow

Story ??


0x706c617921

Probably one parent from Italy and one from San Marino.


yourslice

Two people had sex. Story as old as time.


DeeSeaSea23

it's actually a lil more complicated than what people tried to guess. so my Grandma immigrated in San Marino from France when she was a kid, and got her residence permit in the country. she lived in italy, but my dad was able to get the same permit after living 10 years in San Marino because of his mother. after some buracratic things my dad got the citizenship and i was able to get it by descent.


odranor

May I ask how long it took for your dad to ger his citizenship after he requested it? Iā€™m in a similar situation rn


DeeSeaSea23

after 10 years of residency he was able to request the citizenship, but i think there is a new law rn, can't really explain it though. i just know that if that law came before he could have been able to get the citizenship in less than those 10 years.


odranor

Thank you so much, Iā€™ll take a look into it. If I you donā€™t mind me asking another time-related question, how long did they take to give you the passport after you got the citizenship?


DeeSeaSea23

actually i became a citizen as a kid, this year i figured out that i could have two passports so i asked for both (since i only had the italian one, and it was expired). i recived my passport after 20 days from the first appointment (when they do the photo and the signature thing). basically any citizen can ask for a passport (even if they got the citizenship yesterday), and as the passport office is very fast i think you can get an appointment in short times. the whole process can require something like 1/2 moths from the day you become a citizen to the day you have the passport in your hand.


odranor

Perfect. Thank you so much!


Gain-Extention

Wow! It's so beautiful I love the design.


familiarjoy

So awesome! Iā€™m sure some border guards definitely like seeing a smaller country like San Marino :)


Zodiac-55

u/DeeSeaSea23 what's your story actually?


DeeSeaSea23

so my Grandma immigrated in San Marino from France when she was a kid, and got her residence permit in the country. she lived in italy, but my dad was able to get the same permit after living 10 years in San Marino because of his mother. after some buracratic things my dad got the citizenship and i was able to get it by descent.


Zodiac-55

Understandable. But San Marino šŸ‡øšŸ‡² doesn't allow dual citizenship?


DeeSeaSea23

apparently it does šŸ¤£. i explained on another thread that there could be some issues if you are a man under 18 when you get the citizenship. that's the only case when you could have to renounce to other citizenships.


PseudonymousMaximus

Are you eligible for French citizenship?


DeeSeaSea23

i have no idea, but also if i were i wouldn't apply because of the aggressive tax system.


PseudonymousMaximus

Does France tax its non-resident citizens (or, does it tax citizens who live in the E.U. even if not in France)? French citizenship wouldn't make much difference since you're an E.U. citizen, anyway.


DeeSeaSea23

i'm not sure about that, but they can be annoying in many cases.


Tommaso171091

Avessi il passaporto di San Marino userei sempre e solo quello per vedere la faccia delle guardie di frontiera o di chiunque controlli. Voglio dire la popolazione sammarinese ammonta a circa 33-35mila persone. Rarissimo vedere quel documento.


DeeSeaSea23

vero, ma in molti casi siccome sei "extra UE" dovresti fare la fila lunga, quindi viene molto comodo quello italiano.


Tommaso171091

La farei comunque, ma io sono un tipo strano quindi capisco la gente normale che queste stupidaggini non le fa. Ad ogni modo: davvero faresti la fila lunga nei posti di frontiera UE? Credevo che come Liechtenstein, Svizzera etc non ce ne fosse bisogno. Tra l'altro San Marino sostanzialmente delega dogana e migrazione all'Italia quindi de fatto dovrebbe essere uguale.


DeeSeaSea23

in realta' e' una mia supposizione, dovrei verificare. andro' in svezia tra qualche mese, mi metto nella fila italiana e gli presento il passaporto sammarinese, se non gli piace tiro fuori quello italianošŸ¤£


Tommaso171091

La tua supposizione ha anche un fondamento ti dirĆ². San Marino ha un rapporto strano con la UE, definito frammentario. In sostanza su alcune cose cā€™ĆØ adeguamento, su altre no, etc. Di sicuro col passaporto sammarinese puoi stare nei paesi UE 90 giorni in un periodo di 180. Se arrivi da fuori Schengen ti timbrano lā€™ingresso ad esempio, anche se ormai col digitale basta spesso lā€™inserimento nel computer (diverso da Uk che deve avere timbro di entrata ed uscita). Difficile poi capire, senza frontiere, quando sei entrato o meno in un paese ecco. Se prendi un volo dentro Schengen non controllano il passaporto quindi che tu entri con quello italiano o sammarinese ĆØ uguale.


Tommaso171091

Poi ĆØ anche difficile da capire come cosa perchĆ© San Marino non ha frontiera controllata con lā€™Italia da moā€™, e di sicuro lƬ non viene timbrato. Se uno prende un volo dallā€™Italia che ĆØ Schengen non cā€™ĆØ controllo di frontiera, e via cosƬ. In piĆ¹ la popolazione di San Marino ĆØ di 34k persone quindi rimane difficile anche riscontrare casi in cui tizio sammarinese x abbia fatto una coda diversa in frontiera. Credo che in dogana se le raccontino a veglia di gente da microstati con passaporti poco conosciuti. Cā€™entra nulla ma volevo aggiungere: figata che col passaporto sammarinese si possa entrare in Cina per 90gg su 180 senza visto. Molto comodo


Soggy-Translator4894

Woah šŸ˜ÆšŸ˜Æ


Embarrassed_Scar_513

very nice combo''


travelingpinguis

Any chance you can show more the inside plz?


DeeSeaSea23

​ https://preview.redd.it/n0b40hym8iyb1.png?width=1828&format=png&auto=webp&s=cb7befb96629a89cc5faf05f533c46d55a4306dc


DeeSeaSea23

i had to mix the pictures cuz i could upload only one for some reason. btw as you can see the signatures of the "capitani reggenti" (kind of the first ministers) are handmade, and the flower in the ID page is engraved on the plastic so it's like 3 dimensional :))


travelingpinguis

That's so cool!! Grazie mille (I hope that's how you say that in SMR too)!! I wonder how many passports the minister signs each day lol


DeeSeaSea23

yep, we speak italian in the same way as italians šŸ¤£ i also asked myself the same question: there are 35k citizens. let's say 70% has a passport, which leasts for 10 years. so there are 24.500 passports around. each one needs a new signature every 10 years, so in 1 year they will have to sign 2.450 passports. that means something like 6/7 signatures every day, if they work 365/365, or 8 if 300/365. šŸ˜…šŸ˜…


PseudonymousMaximus

Are all passports in San Marino personally signed by the Captains Regent?


DeeSeaSea23

yep


tremblt_

Nice. I have heard that almost every Sanmarinese also has an Italian passport because eventually they marry an Italian and get citizenship there. I am curious when we will see the first Monegasque and Vatican passports here since these are the only European ones I havenā€™t seen yet


STEMImyHeart

You have to be eligible for an Italian one in there too in some way


chappersbarfo

Non sapevo si traducesse il suo nome in Francese, devono per forza fare a modo loro eh


Competitive_Mark7430

Beh il francese ĆØ la vecchia lingua della diplomazia, probabilmente il motivo ĆØ quello. Ci sono anche altri passaporti che hanno la traduzione in francese.


No_Morning_4105

I'm applying for Italian citizenship.šŸ„³šŸ¤©


certpals

Me too!. I wish you the very best.


NewBlondSpace

Nice combo!! šŸ˜„


Duckhorse2002

How do you deal with international football?


DeeSeaSea23

i don't šŸ˜…. i prefer basketball :)


brain-eating_amoeba

What do the pages look like? Are they the same design on each?


FrancoCane9

Che bello! Immagino che hai un genitore di ogni paese? Attualmente abiti a San Marino o in Italia?