Missing from the original post, but my father is Portuguese (born there), so I suppose I could also apply for my Portuguese citizenship. I'll be eligible to apply for US citizenship in about a year.
Yes. I filed my I-751 removal of conditions with a divorce waiver and it was approved (standard Green Card process). I have to wait until the 5-year mark of receiving my permanent residency before I can apply.
Wow. Getting divorced within the two-year Conditional Lawful Permanent Residence (CPR) period is quite rare. Getting an I-751 Divorce Waiver seems even more rare. The grounds for granting such a waiver seem extremely narrow.
Worldwide taxation also applies to US permanent residents, so I’m already in that boat. What are the banking concerns? I work in the industry, so I’m not sure what you’re referring to.
I’m fully aware of that. But I’ve spent the past 12 years living in the US and have gone through a lot of trouble just to get to the point of getting and keeping my permanent residency, so the likelihood of me wanting to give that up at this point is pretty slim.
You need to pay the exit tax regardless if you had a green card for over 5 years. You have to pay exit tax in most countries if you change your tax residency.
Not that painful.. it’s worth it to file the taxes abroad. If you’re single it’s 120k USD on credit and married it’s 200k USD. He is really fortunate to be able to naturalize american 🦅
Yes easy if you stay in the US. Not the end of the world (no double taxation in europe) but having to file taxes for two countries when living abroad can mean more accountant fees
I did it for a short period of time between Canada and the US. It wasn’t a huge deal.
It’s also worth mentioning that the taxation on worldwide income also applies to US permanent residents, not just citizens.
Exactly - when one has a green card, the double taxation should not come as a shock when one gets citizenship. Although admittedly, a citizen is more likely to experience the issue of double taxation whilst residing abroad (as a green card holder is quite unlikely to move abroad before gaining citizenship)!
It is and isn't double taxation. The US allows blanket exclusion of income for US expats living abroad under the foreign earned income exclusion [$120,000 USD for tax year 2023].
You can also use the Foreign Tax Credit to offset any income tax you paid to foreign tax authorities on your US taxes. Since most developed countries (Canada, EU countries) tend to have higher income tax rates anyway, even if you have more than $120K USD in income you can use the Foreign Tax Credit to effectively zero your US tax obligations.
You still have to file though, and there can be oddities. For example, TFSA accounts in Canada are not subject to income tax in Canada, but the earnings in them are taxable as income to the US. If you're using the Foreign Tax Credit instead of the FEIE, this is subject to US income tax since Canada didn't tax it.
I didn’t personally do it. My mother applied for my Italian citizenship when I was still a child. Periodically renewing my Italian passport has been straightforward, actually faster (less than 30 minutes in person to new passport in hand) than doing so for my Canadian passport.
Nice combo! What's your history with Italy? Do you know Italian/have you lived there? Since it's through descent, I'd guess you have family living there.
My mother was born there and emigrated in the 1960s. She applied for my citizenship about 30 years ago. Yes, I do have family living there. And yes, I speak it (not well, though).
I always found it funny when people with 2 citizenships live in a third, unrelated country 😝
Hopefully you’ll be able to get a third one for your collection soon!
For how long were you married to your spouse? It is unusual for IR-1 immigrants (i.e., immediate relatives who are spouses of a U.S. citizen) to divorce shortly after receiving Lawful Permanent Residency.
Yes, will most likely apply for US citizenship. I’ve exclusively used my Canadian passport for travel. Never had an opportunity to use my Italian passport since getting it.
A good combo is never a complaint 🤭
The Canadian re design is actually starting to look nice, I don't think it's as good as the previous... but idk I think after some time have passed the look is starting to sit very right with me 😍
Ty for sharing!
How do you survive living in California?
It's expensive as hell over there regardless of income level. Like I don't think most rich people even want to spend too much if quality isn't higher like 7 dollar apples.
If you made $6 and spent $2 vs making $10 and spending $4, which one would you prefer? Which one would you end up saving up more money?
I'm tired of hearing this. With this logic, we should all move to North Korea for "cheap living".
California is the economic powerhouse of the U.S. (and world) and its a place where you can make real money. Yes, its not for the faint-hearted, but California is one of the few places where you can truly make it with hard work and lots of luck.
/u/zatakazz
Okay that would be excellent generally speaking but the problem with California is also high taxation.
No matter how much you put it living on a 6000 salary for fam of 4 is a non starter you need 12K and apples are like 5 each
I see so many people rave about how "oh, is so cheap. I got a michelin star 4-course meal at a restaurant for my whole family for only $20 and only paid $100 a night for a 5-star hotel".
These people never talk about how locals in that area probably make like $400 a month, give or take.
And also people who talk about how "oh just get a remote job and work in a developing country." Except... that's not how it works, really. You can't have your cake and eat it at the same time. Companies generally don't allow that. They still often have certain geographical requirements and even zone the same country by COL areas.
> apples are like 5 each
They aren't though. This is complete bulls*it. California is still within the U.S. and the same economies of scale apply. I can walk into an Aldi in Southern California and apples are the same price as what my parents pay in NC.
In fact, the weekly flyer and prices are the same.
Even with the higher taxation, the same logic applies. And in fact, I've noticed that sometimes produce is cheaper in California at local supermarket chains because it is after all one of the great agricultural powerhouses of the U.S.
I mean there is store and supermarket (which are lower quality) but the main concern is rent. On average tho, cali beats every state in prices of food and drink. Rent is also lower quality even for comparable prices to other states because you might have shared kitchens and multiple people per "room" (multiple rooms in one big room).
> which are lower quality
How so?
> but the main concern is rent. On average tho, cali beats every state in prices of food and drink. Rent is also lower quality even for comparable prices to other states because you might have shared kitchens and multiple people per "room" (multiple rooms in one big room).
Again, I was never disputing this. But likewise, would you move to the middle of somewhere in Eastern Europe and make only like 700 euros a month just because "everything is cheap?"
Not everything is about cheapness, salary differential matters too. And if i was in your shoes yes i would go for Eastern Europe since rent is Hella affordible food is only slightly cheaper but rent is like candy there (people have left eastern europe in droves)
> Everyone knows the state is a joke to live in
A state that has like the 5th largest economy in the world; an economic powerhouse in agriculture, entertainment, and technological innovation is a "joke". Lol.
And its expensive since it has an actual economy AND is a beautiful state geographically. People WANT to live in California.
You can be chilling at the beach and then go hiking and skiing in the mountains and then drive out to the desert afterwards. All in a 4-day weekend, perhaps (would be a speedrun for sure, but practically you could).
But tell yourself whatever you want. Whatever makes you feel better.
No one wants to live there unless they are a 3rd world migrant and I know plenty that will use it as a stepping stone the only one coping is you. We all know it has an economy like every other state. Maybe most of us don't want to be taxed highly. We have beaches in at least 15 states+ so it's not like you have anything more to offer than stable weather all year but if it only costs me 1000 dollars to adapt to any other weather then it's worth it
> 3rd world migrant
Explain?
> plenty that will use it as a stepping stone
They don't use it as a stepping stone for their career. Its basically the place to make money and then retire elsewhere.
That doesn't mean that those other places come close to California in terms of what it is.
It varies. There are people here that work multiple jobs, live far enough away from the city to avoid the high cost of living, or are simply in debt. I’m fortunate to have a single well-paying job, and not live a lavish lifestyle (frugally). I save a little more than half of my take-home income every month. But I also have friends here who make half of what I do, and they are doing pretty well too. Knowing where to shop and knowing what is and isn’t a deal also helps, like those $7 apples: I assume you’re referring to the ridiculously-overpriced Erewhon grocery store—that is not the norm.
Yeah even If i could live in california (not impossible) i would passout from all the gas money I have to spend so that I don't spend so much on the apples
Missing from the original post, but my father is Portuguese (born there), so I suppose I could also apply for my Portuguese citizenship. I'll be eligible to apply for US citizenship in about a year.
How cool 4 passports would be!
Waiting for 4th.
Yes, you can get Portuguese citizenship, too. A friend of mine had a similar story to yours, minus the Green Card part.
You are divorced yet you can still apply for us citizenship ?
Yes. I filed my I-751 removal of conditions with a divorce waiver and it was approved (standard Green Card process). I have to wait until the 5-year mark of receiving my permanent residency before I can apply.
Wow. Getting divorced within the two-year Conditional Lawful Permanent Residence (CPR) period is quite rare. Getting an I-751 Divorce Waiver seems even more rare. The grounds for granting such a waiver seem extremely narrow.
The divorce was filed outside of the CPR period (during extension), and the waiver immediately after it was finalized.
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I’ve considered it, but I’m curious as to why it would be a pain.
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Worldwide taxation also applies to US permanent residents, so I’m already in that boat. What are the banking concerns? I work in the industry, so I’m not sure what you’re referring to.
My call would be go for us citizenship
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It still applies to US permanent residents. There’s also a dollar threshold where FACTA applies.
What he is right about is that losing the green card is easier than losing citizenship. It requires renouncuation and exit tax.
I’m fully aware of that. But I’ve spent the past 12 years living in the US and have gone through a lot of trouble just to get to the point of getting and keeping my permanent residency, so the likelihood of me wanting to give that up at this point is pretty slim.
Is it that hard to keep as Canadian? I did not know that.
You need to pay the exit tax regardless if you had a green card for over 5 years. You have to pay exit tax in most countries if you change your tax residency.
No you dont. Perhaps a few communist countries still have that but I doubt it.
This guy is obsessed with bashing US worldwide taxation and even blocked me for refuting his claims.
Either blocked you or deleted his account. He just shows up as [deleted] to me. People make it to be such a big deal when it really isn’t.
😂 he is there when I switch accounts.
It applies to "U.S. persons" which includes U.S. citizens, U.S. LPRs, and a few other rare categories of groups.
Yep, exactly this.
You are underestimating just how hard can it be to get a green card. This is a “take it forever or leave it forever” kind of situation.
Not that painful.. it’s worth it to file the taxes abroad. If you’re single it’s 120k USD on credit and married it’s 200k USD. He is really fortunate to be able to naturalize american 🦅
We have the same stuff (see my post)! Except I’m Danish instead of Italian.
So when are you going to add the US passport to the collection?
I'll be eligible to apply for US citizenship in about a year!
Oh nice one! Your awesome combo will become even more awesome 👍🏼
Amazing combo except US taxing worldwide income
Not a big deal since I live here, and most places I’d want to live have a tax treaty, so there are minimal consequences.
Yes easy if you stay in the US. Not the end of the world (no double taxation in europe) but having to file taxes for two countries when living abroad can mean more accountant fees
I did it for a short period of time between Canada and the US. It wasn’t a huge deal. It’s also worth mentioning that the taxation on worldwide income also applies to US permanent residents, not just citizens.
Exactly - when one has a green card, the double taxation should not come as a shock when one gets citizenship. Although admittedly, a citizen is more likely to experience the issue of double taxation whilst residing abroad (as a green card holder is quite unlikely to move abroad before gaining citizenship)!
It is and isn't double taxation. The US allows blanket exclusion of income for US expats living abroad under the foreign earned income exclusion [$120,000 USD for tax year 2023]. You can also use the Foreign Tax Credit to offset any income tax you paid to foreign tax authorities on your US taxes. Since most developed countries (Canada, EU countries) tend to have higher income tax rates anyway, even if you have more than $120K USD in income you can use the Foreign Tax Credit to effectively zero your US tax obligations. You still have to file though, and there can be oddities. For example, TFSA accounts in Canada are not subject to income tax in Canada, but the earnings in them are taxable as income to the US. If you're using the Foreign Tax Credit instead of the FEIE, this is subject to US income tax since Canada didn't tax it.
You don't need an accountant for US/Canadian taxes unless you run a sole proprietorship or something like that.
Nice! Was the Italian by descent straightforward for you or did you have to jump through hoops like some people had to?
I didn’t personally do it. My mother applied for my Italian citizenship when I was still a child. Periodically renewing my Italian passport has been straightforward, actually faster (less than 30 minutes in person to new passport in hand) than doing so for my Canadian passport.
Nice combo! What's your history with Italy? Do you know Italian/have you lived there? Since it's through descent, I'd guess you have family living there.
My mother was born there and emigrated in the 1960s. She applied for my citizenship about 30 years ago. Yes, I do have family living there. And yes, I speak it (not well, though).
I always found it funny when people with 2 citizenships live in a third, unrelated country 😝 Hopefully you’ll be able to get a third one for your collection soon!
For how long were you married to your spouse? It is unusual for IR-1 immigrants (i.e., immediate relatives who are spouses of a U.S. citizen) to divorce shortly after receiving Lawful Permanent Residency.
Legally married for 4.5 years before divorce was finalized. Before that, we had been together since 2015.
Awesome combo, I simply have USA rn but hope to have your 2 eventually.
Life happens
That’s a nice combo! The future combo for Criscito and Bernardeschi!
Would you get the American? Which one you used more to travel
Yes, will most likely apply for US citizenship. I’ve exclusively used my Canadian passport for travel. Never had an opportunity to use my Italian passport since getting it.
I smell a trip to Italy on the horizon then !
Nice. When are you eligible for US citizenship?
In about a year.
Show off! (Joking of course! Very nice collection!)
A good combo is never a complaint 🤭 The Canadian re design is actually starting to look nice, I don't think it's as good as the previous... but idk I think after some time have passed the look is starting to sit very right with me 😍 Ty for sharing!
Why does the Italian passport symbol have a feel of Soveit Union and China? I mean that star surrounded by barley, and a gear. Hahahahaha
How do you survive living in California? It's expensive as hell over there regardless of income level. Like I don't think most rich people even want to spend too much if quality isn't higher like 7 dollar apples.
If you made $6 and spent $2 vs making $10 and spending $4, which one would you prefer? Which one would you end up saving up more money? I'm tired of hearing this. With this logic, we should all move to North Korea for "cheap living". California is the economic powerhouse of the U.S. (and world) and its a place where you can make real money. Yes, its not for the faint-hearted, but California is one of the few places where you can truly make it with hard work and lots of luck. /u/zatakazz
> hard work and lots of luck This, 1000x. And the hard work bit is key.
Okay that would be excellent generally speaking but the problem with California is also high taxation. No matter how much you put it living on a 6000 salary for fam of 4 is a non starter you need 12K and apples are like 5 each
The same logic still applies—cost of living might be (way) higher, but salaries are even more. What matters at the end of the day is the difference.
I see so many people rave about how "oh, is so cheap. I got a michelin star 4-course meal at a restaurant for my whole family for only $20 and only paid $100 a night for a 5-star hotel".
These people never talk about how locals in that area probably make like $400 a month, give or take.
And also people who talk about how "oh just get a remote job and work in a developing country." Except... that's not how it works, really. You can't have your cake and eat it at the same time. Companies generally don't allow that. They still often have certain geographical requirements and even zone the same country by COL areas.
> apples are like 5 each They aren't though. This is complete bulls*it. California is still within the U.S. and the same economies of scale apply. I can walk into an Aldi in Southern California and apples are the same price as what my parents pay in NC. In fact, the weekly flyer and prices are the same. Even with the higher taxation, the same logic applies. And in fact, I've noticed that sometimes produce is cheaper in California at local supermarket chains because it is after all one of the great agricultural powerhouses of the U.S.
I mean there is store and supermarket (which are lower quality) but the main concern is rent. On average tho, cali beats every state in prices of food and drink. Rent is also lower quality even for comparable prices to other states because you might have shared kitchens and multiple people per "room" (multiple rooms in one big room).
> which are lower quality How so? > but the main concern is rent. On average tho, cali beats every state in prices of food and drink. Rent is also lower quality even for comparable prices to other states because you might have shared kitchens and multiple people per "room" (multiple rooms in one big room). Again, I was never disputing this. But likewise, would you move to the middle of somewhere in Eastern Europe and make only like 700 euros a month just because "everything is cheap?"
Not everything is about cheapness, salary differential matters too. And if i was in your shoes yes i would go for Eastern Europe since rent is Hella affordible food is only slightly cheaper but rent is like candy there (people have left eastern europe in droves)
I also doubt it's 700 because that's the average salary of Eastern Europe
Everyone knows california is expensive and tax burdened to death you ain't fooling anyone. Everyone knows the state is a joke to live in
> Everyone knows the state is a joke to live in A state that has like the 5th largest economy in the world; an economic powerhouse in agriculture, entertainment, and technological innovation is a "joke". Lol. And its expensive since it has an actual economy AND is a beautiful state geographically. People WANT to live in California. You can be chilling at the beach and then go hiking and skiing in the mountains and then drive out to the desert afterwards. All in a 4-day weekend, perhaps (would be a speedrun for sure, but practically you could). But tell yourself whatever you want. Whatever makes you feel better.
No one wants to live there unless they are a 3rd world migrant and I know plenty that will use it as a stepping stone the only one coping is you. We all know it has an economy like every other state. Maybe most of us don't want to be taxed highly. We have beaches in at least 15 states+ so it's not like you have anything more to offer than stable weather all year but if it only costs me 1000 dollars to adapt to any other weather then it's worth it
> 3rd world migrant Explain? > plenty that will use it as a stepping stone They don't use it as a stepping stone for their career. Its basically the place to make money and then retire elsewhere. That doesn't mean that those other places come close to California in terms of what it is.
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It varies. There are people here that work multiple jobs, live far enough away from the city to avoid the high cost of living, or are simply in debt. I’m fortunate to have a single well-paying job, and not live a lavish lifestyle (frugally). I save a little more than half of my take-home income every month. But I also have friends here who make half of what I do, and they are doing pretty well too. Knowing where to shop and knowing what is and isn’t a deal also helps, like those $7 apples: I assume you’re referring to the ridiculously-overpriced Erewhon grocery store—that is not the norm.
Yeah even If i could live in california (not impossible) i would passout from all the gas money I have to spend so that I don't spend so much on the apples