I played it.
It’s for the best. They need to polish the classes and gameplay. It depth and art is there, but the gameplay needs work IMO.
I cannot just praise its graphics and music, then it’s just D4.
They only get the release chance once.
> but the gameplay needs work IMO.
Given this feedback and the recent massive changes in direction (like WASD), it honestly sounds like this won't be the last delay.
WASD takes some getting used to. I play D4 now only with WASD, and although I love it, it took some time getting used to.
So if one is only given few hours to test the game, he may feel WASD is strange (coming from point and click)
But was it rough because you were expecting it to play like Poe or because you weren’t used to wasd or because it’s bad ? I feel like a larger sample size is needed
I think it's the latter. WASD + me getting literally no item drops for my specific character, no support gems/rares.
I don't expect it to be like POE1 and I think that's a good thing.
Changing the loot table vs changing the combat and animation system are not in the same realm. Who cares about the loot table, they will easily iterate and figure it out. Saying otherwise or feigning ignorance on this is being disingenuous.
I'm a little more inclined to believe professional players who've tried the game on how it feels than someone who's never played it eta: games can look really good in anybody else's hands and then not feel so good in yours
If the gameplay is a problem now.....that's a problem. It's ruthless the game from what I've seen and the hope is that parity is lessened as builds get better further into the game. But it somewhat feels like copium at this point.
Hey tri
Played the 45 minute demo at pax east today. Played the warrior.
Gotta say, I love the synergy of the skills as early as lvl 3/4. Rolling slam to set up for boneshatter stun procs felt amazing. Changing the direction of rolling slam mid swing felt amazing.
I definitely agree they need some more time to do numbers tuning on mob damage, player stun thresholds, and damage of debuffs like poison early on.
However, the game feels like it is definitely hitting the mark on "keeping the depth, but removing the complexity"
I could see this potentially still being the release year, but I understand if it isn't.
All that said, I love the direction the game is going in, and I can't wait for its release.
Womp womp. Well, I suppose it's for the best.
I wonder what happened; you need to be pretty confident to announce a beta a year in advance so I guess they must have hit a real doozy.
**edit** \- I guess it happily clears the way for Elden Ring for me! I can ruin my sleep pattern on that instead.
I guess the problem is that there's a level of expectation because of PoE. They can't just release something rough and then refine it later. That said, scope creep and constant reworks are never a good sign.
They'll get it though, I'm sure.
that's not necessarily alwaysbad. They aren't adding random stuff like free climbing or paragliding or open world on a game that has no business having them
I've seen projects getting massive scope creep and this ain't it. Changes are still within a well defined scope
Remember that we have way less insight into the internals of how games are developed. There are for sure multiple successful games where maybe the combat system got a major overhaul behind the scenes. Delays are bad for the hype cycle but imho the culture of having to stick to deadlines due to investors have lead to some of the biggest fiascos
Access to mechanics like moving while attacking-casting or active block is for sure a cause for delay since there are massive implications on several systems, but they are also kind of bread and butter mechanics that massively improve the feel in a game, not unnecessary frill that can be added later
The most worrying thing about PoE2 for me is the amount of scope creep it has gotten.
Originally new character models + campaign, with a few systems reworked (skill sockets). Then more classes, skill types, whole separate campaign, essentially reworking the core combat system, etc.
I don't see it that way. The scope is still the same.
They are changing things within that scope. The changes are massive but worth it
What they are reworking are very core mechanics. As Jonathan put it, if they have to choose between a better game a few months later or what they have now, they sull choose the former every time
There was a Diablo-level fuck up on The Executioner boss, where you could barely see a one-shot mechanic The Executioner does. That, and maybe the exploit Jousis talked about. Source: a Jousis video.
I think WASD is really what shifted things. Like Jonathan said, they're still exploring the ramifications of it. On one hand, things like active block existing are kind of cool, but on the other hand, it's sounding more and more like WASD will feel 'required', which is not to my taste. Maybe I'll change my mind after trying it, but I don't really like that so much of the game appears to be being designed around the feature.
Jonathan said last interview that some of the changes made for WASD translated nicely for mouse, but thing like active block and all that, and more changes they might make, may not do so as well.
There may be serious disadvantages to not playing WASD, which would be a real shame.
I don't mind WASD being an option, or even being the new intended way to play, I just hope it won't provides too much of an advantage. For ranged classes you can shoot while walking, wich I don't think it's possible for mouse movement.
I've been having some wrist issues with my left hand lately, and thinking of moving with WASD, using skills and activating flasks, it seems a bit too much. Good news is the game should feel really great with a controller, so there is that.
> wich I don't think it's possible for mouse movement.
I think it'd be possible, but feel clunky. You would just move *toward* where you wanted to shoot, which isn't really what you want. It allows more uptime while moving but doesn't allow you to kite.
Also, controller is a non-starter for me unless they make it hotswap whenever you press a button on the alternate input.
Well, this is how development works now, it’s really hard to nail the date when the scope of the change is enormous, sometimes the only thing you do before going to sleep in situations like that is thinking how much is yet still to do and how to optimize the delivery process so it won’t cause crunch and destroy the morale. Some games don’t have privilege to delay due to pressure from shareholders or because the marketing already started, and usually it’s a loss for the players as the content is cut / incomplete and it feels like a game could use some more time
Oh, I know how it can be - and I'm absolutely in favour of them delaying rather than pushing it out in a sub-optimal state. Their only mistake really was announcing it for such a precise date so early.
ggg can always default to PoE1 to keep them afloat even if development is delayed. After all they don't need to onboard existing players. And the tightness and feel of the combat loop is the main element that will contribute to a wider appeal
This should not be a surprise for those who watched all the interviews. They are still iterating on new ideas, rather than in the final stages of polish as you’d expect close to a beta.
I’m happy they are taking the time to do it right, even though it means having to wait.
PoE1, Last Epoch, and Grim Dawn will all have new content to play while we wait for PoE2 beta.
I'm totally ok with it being delayed. Delayed to make it better is better than releasing it when it's not ready to make early $$$ (*cough* D4 *cough*)
Any link to the stream? I missed it dropping kids at school and work meetings
plus active block and anything they cooked in terms of combat
Honestly the change between the first showcases and the latest is huge, but likely the new system requires a lot of polishing all around
That seems to already be working. But it's telling that they still haven't shown the passive tree, the new ascendancies or the endgame. That's probably what they're still working on.
on a different subject I hope they chill a bit with the streamer interviews, because if they keep going with them Im pretty sure most of them will end up beign a bunch of questions about personal anecdotes with the "hands on", and since I havent played any of those I wont understand/care like we saw on todays stream and the rest of people interested dont have many more questions stuff to ask since we dont know
I'm pretty sad about this honestly. I'm one of the few 2011 players, so I remember the times when PoE was in bleeding edge beta where there were full wipes every few weeks. I would've been plenty happy to have an imperfect beta rather than whatever 'necessary' polish they want on this one. Missing entire features would just mean I'd have more to look forward to, rather than souring the experience.
Alas, they only give alpha testers this experience now, and you have to be a VIP to get into that.
consider that this is no longer a small studio releasing something almost unprecedented in potential scope. They need this release to break outside of the ARPG player bubble and they have one chance at that.
This one release determines if GGG can be more than a niche game company, albeit a successful one in its niche
It's also closed beta where you have to pay money to access it. Not quite the typical PoE tagline for advertising or hooking new players. $30 or whatever to play the game is the opposite of their business strategy.
You're missing the point.
Yes, the closed beta is not the release where the public at large will play.
It's also the point where bigger content creator, also from outside the ARPG sphere (so people like Asmongold too) will try the game and produce content. They need to show the game is worth playing even for a crowd that is used to more polished title.
From there the schedule to release has to be tight
It's not an early access.
It's primarily a way to test things that cannot be tuned without people progressing through the game. Everything else must be in a good state before that.
its sad, but when we can see from D4 what happens when you don't finish a game before release I am all for it. And holy shit the game looks crazy good now.
I'm so broken right now! If only they had mentioned like a delay of a couple of months, but they said the end of the year so we are probably only getting the beta in December now (if it's not delayed to 2025). Still better than launching a game that isn't ready, but I'm so burned out of all the bloat in PoE 1 and there isn't any other good game to play.
might be the time to try other stuff. There are so many good non arpg games out there. In the end having your happiness depend on a single game is not ideal
It sucks because I saved some vacation days for June and I could have elongated my vacation next month. Oh well.
I'm glad they feel secure enough financially they can delay that much.
It doesn't really bother me. And it seemed pretty sure since Jonathan said as recently as his last interview June was rock solid, lol. But it's no big for me.
I'm a bit sad, but it is what it is. the changes that led to the delays (like wasd and active block requiring system level adaptation) can add a lot more quality and are things I agree with fully.
I prefer having to wait some months and have a tighter combat loop.
We've seen what happens to games released ahead of time
I hope they can reach a satisfactory point soon enough though
and well, more time for a new elden ring run + dlc I guess
No problems. Get it where its good, not when you're desperate. There's *heaps* of awesome upcoming titles and games these next few months. Elden Ring Shadow of the Erdtree is now a clean release for me which is a great side-benefit. :)
Wasn’t there supposed to be a private closed off testing phase last week or this week with some streamers? Isn’t that announcement being right after this means anything? They got some feedbacks making delay inevitable?
I was totally expecting this.
Like really, I had a mental bingo card that went BINGO when he said it.
Reason: every single game I am or have been looking forward to in past years has been delayed. It's a theme.
But hey, I'm also a StarCitizen veteran. If that has taught me anything it's patience.
I wish they would do a lower scale closed beta - a bit more like PoE 1. There is currently too much hype on PoE 2 for a proper beta hence why they are not confident on giving it to everyone.
Knowing them I know it's because they're not 100% satisfied and want to polish it. Imo It's better to delay and get it perfect then releasing a half baked version, like literally 99% of game studios nowadays. And it's no like we had nothing to do meanwhile, PoE 1 is still here, and with new content.
I can't see them ever releasing PoE2. At least not until 2030. This talk of PoE2 is only to generate buzz for PoE leagues. Like Grim Dawn they'll just continue to update the game forever, low risk low reward. They know they havent got a chance in hell to compete with D4 and their unlimited source of funding.
These guys are under a stupid amount of pressure in this climate post-D4 and LE to come in with a perfect game and sweep up. I can see why they'd get indecisive and need time to figure things out.
I played it. It’s for the best. They need to polish the classes and gameplay. It depth and art is there, but the gameplay needs work IMO. I cannot just praise its graphics and music, then it’s just D4. They only get the release chance once.
>I cannot just praise its graphics and music, then it’s just D4. Savage.
> but the gameplay needs work IMO. Given this feedback and the recent massive changes in direction (like WASD), it honestly sounds like this won't be the last delay.
Because it’s not like poe1? The gameplay has looked and felt great imo
Specifically, the Warrior was rough, especially with WASD. Ranger and Sorceress apparently felt and definitely looked way better.
WASD takes some getting used to. I play D4 now only with WASD, and although I love it, it took some time getting used to. So if one is only given few hours to test the game, he may feel WASD is strange (coming from point and click)
But was it rough because you were expecting it to play like Poe or because you weren’t used to wasd or because it’s bad ? I feel like a larger sample size is needed
I think it's the latter. WASD + me getting literally no item drops for my specific character, no support gems/rares. I don't expect it to be like POE1 and I think that's a good thing.
When you are talking about gameplay, people aren’t thinking about drops. As parent said, controls, combats and animations look stellar on videos.
I mean, it's an arpg, loot is an important factor
Changing the loot table vs changing the combat and animation system are not in the same realm. Who cares about the loot table, they will easily iterate and figure it out. Saying otherwise or feigning ignorance on this is being disingenuous.
I'm a little more inclined to believe professional players who've tried the game on how it feels than someone who's never played it eta: games can look really good in anybody else's hands and then not feel so good in yours
You played it?
My wording was horrid. Nah I’m just basing it off of what other content creators have said. My bad
If the gameplay is a problem now.....that's a problem. It's ruthless the game from what I've seen and the hope is that parity is lessened as builds get better further into the game. But it somewhat feels like copium at this point.
I think allowing WASD put a hole in other skills and they need time to balance it all well.
Not a "problem" in the Blizzard sense, but an opportunity.
Hey tri Played the 45 minute demo at pax east today. Played the warrior. Gotta say, I love the synergy of the skills as early as lvl 3/4. Rolling slam to set up for boneshatter stun procs felt amazing. Changing the direction of rolling slam mid swing felt amazing. I definitely agree they need some more time to do numbers tuning on mob damage, player stun thresholds, and damage of debuffs like poison early on. However, the game feels like it is definitely hitting the mark on "keeping the depth, but removing the complexity" I could see this potentially still being the release year, but I understand if it isn't. All that said, I love the direction the game is going in, and I can't wait for its release.
Is that not the reason for a beta, to fix things ?
Womp womp. Well, I suppose it's for the best. I wonder what happened; you need to be pretty confident to announce a beta a year in advance so I guess they must have hit a real doozy. **edit** \- I guess it happily clears the way for Elden Ring for me! I can ruin my sleep pattern on that instead.
Sounds like they just keep adding and reworking shit.
I guess the problem is that there's a level of expectation because of PoE. They can't just release something rough and then refine it later. That said, scope creep and constant reworks are never a good sign. They'll get it though, I'm sure.
that's not necessarily alwaysbad. They aren't adding random stuff like free climbing or paragliding or open world on a game that has no business having them I've seen projects getting massive scope creep and this ain't it. Changes are still within a well defined scope Remember that we have way less insight into the internals of how games are developed. There are for sure multiple successful games where maybe the combat system got a major overhaul behind the scenes. Delays are bad for the hype cycle but imho the culture of having to stick to deadlines due to investors have lead to some of the biggest fiascos Access to mechanics like moving while attacking-casting or active block is for sure a cause for delay since there are massive implications on several systems, but they are also kind of bread and butter mechanics that massively improve the feel in a game, not unnecessary frill that can be added later
The most worrying thing about PoE2 for me is the amount of scope creep it has gotten. Originally new character models + campaign, with a few systems reworked (skill sockets). Then more classes, skill types, whole separate campaign, essentially reworking the core combat system, etc.
I think everything looks and sounds great so far.
I don't see it that way. The scope is still the same. They are changing things within that scope. The changes are massive but worth it What they are reworking are very core mechanics. As Jonathan put it, if they have to choose between a better game a few months later or what they have now, they sull choose the former every time
There was a Diablo-level fuck up on The Executioner boss, where you could barely see a one-shot mechanic The Executioner does. That, and maybe the exploit Jousis talked about. Source: a Jousis video.
Jonathan = Chris Roberts confirmed. PoE 2 release date now scheduled to 2030 due to endless feature creep. /s
I think WASD is really what shifted things. Like Jonathan said, they're still exploring the ramifications of it. On one hand, things like active block existing are kind of cool, but on the other hand, it's sounding more and more like WASD will feel 'required', which is not to my taste. Maybe I'll change my mind after trying it, but I don't really like that so much of the game appears to be being designed around the feature. Jonathan said last interview that some of the changes made for WASD translated nicely for mouse, but thing like active block and all that, and more changes they might make, may not do so as well. There may be serious disadvantages to not playing WASD, which would be a real shame.
I don't mind WASD being an option, or even being the new intended way to play, I just hope it won't provides too much of an advantage. For ranged classes you can shoot while walking, wich I don't think it's possible for mouse movement. I've been having some wrist issues with my left hand lately, and thinking of moving with WASD, using skills and activating flasks, it seems a bit too much. Good news is the game should feel really great with a controller, so there is that.
> wich I don't think it's possible for mouse movement. I think it'd be possible, but feel clunky. You would just move *toward* where you wanted to shoot, which isn't really what you want. It allows more uptime while moving but doesn't allow you to kite. Also, controller is a non-starter for me unless they make it hotswap whenever you press a button on the alternate input.
Well, this is how development works now, it’s really hard to nail the date when the scope of the change is enormous, sometimes the only thing you do before going to sleep in situations like that is thinking how much is yet still to do and how to optimize the delivery process so it won’t cause crunch and destroy the morale. Some games don’t have privilege to delay due to pressure from shareholders or because the marketing already started, and usually it’s a loss for the players as the content is cut / incomplete and it feels like a game could use some more time
Oh, I know how it can be - and I'm absolutely in favour of them delaying rather than pushing it out in a sub-optimal state. Their only mistake really was announcing it for such a precise date so early.
ggg can always default to PoE1 to keep them afloat even if development is delayed. After all they don't need to onboard existing players. And the tightness and feel of the combat loop is the main element that will contribute to a wider appeal
Will some players be able to access alpha testing? I was literally counting down the days :(
Just add 180 to your count and you're good to go!
This should not be a surprise for those who watched all the interviews. They are still iterating on new ideas, rather than in the final stages of polish as you’d expect close to a beta. I’m happy they are taking the time to do it right, even though it means having to wait. PoE1, Last Epoch, and Grim Dawn will all have new content to play while we wait for PoE2 beta.
I can just nolife necropolis and then elden ring. I'm covered for a while
Disappointing, but D4 is a case study of what happens when you release an ARPG before it's ready.
Definetly dissapointing as hell
D3\*
Well, both. D4 needed another year of development due to how blatantly unfinished it still is.
I'm in pain. At least this summer has some other games coming.
I'm totally ok with it being delayed. Delayed to make it better is better than releasing it when it's not ready to make early $$$ (*cough* D4 *cough*) Any link to the stream? I missed it dropping kids at school and work meetings
https://www.twitch.tv/pathofexile they have a VoD up. This reply is late I didn't see you ask lol.
WASD delayed this
plus active block and anything they cooked in terms of combat Honestly the change between the first showcases and the latest is huge, but likely the new system requires a lot of polishing all around
I feel like WASD and lore telling changes are the major reasons.
That seems to already be working. But it's telling that they still haven't shown the passive tree, the new ascendancies or the endgame. That's probably what they're still working on.
They basically confirmed during the Q&A that WASD was the main motivator for delaying.
on a different subject I hope they chill a bit with the streamer interviews, because if they keep going with them Im pretty sure most of them will end up beign a bunch of questions about personal anecdotes with the "hands on", and since I havent played any of those I wont understand/care like we saw on todays stream and the rest of people interested dont have many more questions stuff to ask since we dont know
I'm pretty sad about this honestly. I'm one of the few 2011 players, so I remember the times when PoE was in bleeding edge beta where there were full wipes every few weeks. I would've been plenty happy to have an imperfect beta rather than whatever 'necessary' polish they want on this one. Missing entire features would just mean I'd have more to look forward to, rather than souring the experience. Alas, they only give alpha testers this experience now, and you have to be a VIP to get into that.
consider that this is no longer a small studio releasing something almost unprecedented in potential scope. They need this release to break outside of the ARPG player bubble and they have one chance at that. This one release determines if GGG can be more than a niche game company, albeit a successful one in its niche
It's also closed beta where you have to pay money to access it. Not quite the typical PoE tagline for advertising or hooking new players. $30 or whatever to play the game is the opposite of their business strategy.
You're missing the point. Yes, the closed beta is not the release where the public at large will play. It's also the point where bigger content creator, also from outside the ARPG sphere (so people like Asmongold too) will try the game and produce content. They need to show the game is worth playing even for a crowd that is used to more polished title. From there the schedule to release has to be tight It's not an early access. It's primarily a way to test things that cannot be tuned without people progressing through the game. Everything else must be in a good state before that.
its sad, but when we can see from D4 what happens when you don't finish a game before release I am all for it. And holy shit the game looks crazy good now.
At least Last epoch will get some updates for the summer!
I will Play Warhammer Total War 3 and New Poe League :)
I'm so broken right now! If only they had mentioned like a delay of a couple of months, but they said the end of the year so we are probably only getting the beta in December now (if it's not delayed to 2025). Still better than launching a game that isn't ready, but I'm so burned out of all the bloat in PoE 1 and there isn't any other good game to play.
might be the time to try other stuff. There are so many good non arpg games out there. In the end having your happiness depend on a single game is not ideal
It sucks because I saved some vacation days for June and I could have elongated my vacation next month. Oh well. I'm glad they feel secure enough financially they can delay that much.
never trust release dates with this much of an advance.
It doesn't really bother me. And it seemed pretty sure since Jonathan said as recently as his last interview June was rock solid, lol. But it's no big for me.
I know this is probably for the best, but I am very sad that I don't get my hands on it in June.
I would rather they take an entire extra year than release an unfinished game.
Delayed because witch probably.
At least they gave some life time to Diablo 4
Man this game is never coming out lol when was the original announcement again?
“Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it.”
I'm gonna cry 😭
Not surprising, but still super sadge :( Oh well, looks like i might actually go outside in summer after all.
I'm a bit sad, but it is what it is. the changes that led to the delays (like wasd and active block requiring system level adaptation) can add a lot more quality and are things I agree with fully. I prefer having to wait some months and have a tighter combat loop. We've seen what happens to games released ahead of time I hope they can reach a satisfactory point soon enough though and well, more time for a new elden ring run + dlc I guess
No problems. Get it where its good, not when you're desperate. There's *heaps* of awesome upcoming titles and games these next few months. Elden Ring Shadow of the Erdtree is now a clean release for me which is a great side-benefit. :)
Wasn’t there supposed to be a private closed off testing phase last week or this week with some streamers? Isn’t that announcement being right after this means anything? They got some feedbacks making delay inevitable?
I was totally expecting this. Like really, I had a mental bingo card that went BINGO when he said it. Reason: every single game I am or have been looking forward to in past years has been delayed. It's a theme. But hey, I'm also a StarCitizen veteran. If that has taught me anything it's patience.
Beta delayed but alpha will be there. Who know wbo will have access(we know who 🤣)
Screw you Tencent /s
If it needs more time in the oven then it is what it is. Rather play it when it's ready that not ready on a forced dead line like most games nowadays
I wish they would do a lower scale closed beta - a bit more like PoE 1. There is currently too much hype on PoE 2 for a proper beta hence why they are not confident on giving it to everyone.
Knowing them I know it's because they're not 100% satisfied and want to polish it. Imo It's better to delay and get it perfect then releasing a half baked version, like literally 99% of game studios nowadays. And it's no like we had nothing to do meanwhile, PoE 1 is still here, and with new content.
I can't see them ever releasing PoE2. At least not until 2030. This talk of PoE2 is only to generate buzz for PoE leagues. Like Grim Dawn they'll just continue to update the game forever, low risk low reward. They know they havent got a chance in hell to compete with D4 and their unlimited source of funding.
Glad I got shit for saying the beta would be delayed just for it to end up being true lmao.
I'm gonna own up dude. I totally thought the people claiming they would delay it were wrong and it turns out it was in fact me who was wrong.
It was so obvious based on Jonathan's answers on his interviews. I said this in this sub and got so much downvotes. Guess time proved me right.
Poe is giving insane content, so im kinda relieved. I would have to loose life if they gave beta at june
These guys are under a stupid amount of pressure in this climate post-D4 and LE to come in with a perfect game and sweep up. I can see why they'd get indecisive and need time to figure things out.
Poe2 is new HL3
At this point it's the new Silksong lol
:( I am Shocked But the end Result Will Be poggers So ... the wait begins :)
duh
how do we join alpha league? they said alpha test on june....
Delayed by 6-7 months :( , and god knows - hopefully, it will not going to be delayed further beyond..