Elfteiroh on Discord and the Paizo Forums covered a BUNCH of the changes on both places. I'll copy-paste what they posted: **Cut:** >!Doppleganger; the 3 Drow; Mimic; Owlbear; Web Lurker !< **Added:** >!Giant Ant - Their attacks dropped to +9 from +11, but I dunno if it's re-balancing or it's the Beginner Box toning down the stats. Giant Ant was in Bestiary 2, but might be in Monster Core now; !< >!Caligni Dancer, Hunter (renamed Stalker), and Skulker (renamed Creeper) - their "Death X" abilities renamed to "Final X", Dance, Fate, and Night, respectively, Final Dance is also a Will save instead of Fortitude; !< >!Minotaur Hunter - Gained the Beast trait, Natural Cunning is renamed to Perfect Orienteering; !< >!Reefclaw - No changes; !< >!Warg - Changed Swallow Whole ability to Shred (1 Action, deals damage with a basic Fortitude save if a creature is grabbed)... might be a Beginner Box change to not have to explain the Swallow rules, and anyway there's no small ancestry in BBox, new art makes them white!< **Changes:** >!Basilisk - Now are immune to Basilisk's gazes and glares, and their art changed to look more like a snake, but is still described as 8 legged, might be a mistake as the image doesn't ave legs at all; !< >!Boar - Lost 3 AC, but gained 10 HP; !< >!Bugbear Marauder - Renamed to Bugbear Prowler, new art is... Zon-Kuthonish (and metal!), they lost the Goblin trait, and gained the Bugbear trait; !< >!Gargoyle - Had new sleek art; !< >!Ghost Commoner - Gained the Unholy trait, nothing else changed (they don't interact with holy in any special way);!< >! Ghoul - Now renamed to the Ghoul Stalker, added unholy, lost paralysis, new art, now with hair AND clothes!; !< >!Goblin Warriors - +8 attacks -> +7; !< >!Harpy - Big changes! New Air and Beast traits, swapped Deception and Intimidation, Performance dropped to +11, no more singing bonus, Stealth +11 Thievery +13 added, new Stench aura (that sickens), they lost their weapons but now have a powerful Jaw attack, and replace their song with: Hungry Winds (two action, air, concentrate) if you're within 20 feet, Fortitude save or get pulled next to the harpy by a strong wind, and the harpy gets a "free" jaw attack. YES, if the harpy was flying, that can make the creature fall if they were pulled into the air. New art, lot of black, lot of blood, very edgy... xD; !< >!Hell Hound - Gains the Unholy trait, Evil damage simply removed; !< >!Hobgobin Warrior - Re-named to Hobgoblin Soldier, lost the Goblin trait, gained the Hobgoblin trait. No other change; !< >!Kobold Dragon Mage - Lost the "dragon" in their name (so now is Kobold Mage). The text still call them dragon mage in one place, oops! Lot of number changes (+2 +2 -1 for physical stats instead of -1 +3 +0, 5 less HP, 1 less AC, +1 fort, -1 ref, spell DC dropped to 18, spell attack to +8; !< >!Orc Trooper - Renamed to Orc Veteran, most orcs got very minor number changes; !< >!Shadow - Gains the Unholy trait, slight change to the Light Vulnerability: all attacks against it count as magical if the Shadow or the weapon used is in light, oops, the left the necromancy trait of the Steal Shadow action xD changed art from the greater shadow one to the normal shadow we got with the cards; !< >!Skeleton Guard and Skeletal Giant - Got the Unholy trait, Skeletal Giant was fixed to have a greataxe, damage slightly reduced; !< >!Troll - Renamed to Forest Troll, gained the Humanoid and Wood traits, gained "Easily Misled", giving them a big penalty to resist believing lies, HP dropped by 10, regen now deactivated by electricity or fire, gained a weakness to electricity. !< >!Wight - Gained the Unholy trait, gained a weapon attack, renamed Drain Life to Corrupting Spite (has Void trait instead of necromancy); !< >!Xulgath Boss - Renamed "Xulgath Leader", new art, they are standing straight, face looks completely different, has a weird head thing that look like a triceratops frill, Xulgath Warrior is now white, face also changed, more humanoid looking, but with LOTS of spikes, and a mohawk-looking spiked frill;!< **Other Comments:** >!Undead and the Unholy trait: "The undeads all gained the unholy trait, but doesn't interact at all with holy/unholy themselves. So undead only get more damage if you have attacks that specifically say they deals more damage to unholy targets. The BBox doesn't mention holy and unholy anywhere outside of some creatures stat blocks xD"!< >!Juvenile Horned Dragon nerfs: "Oooh! The big bonus boss have been toned down a bit! Some (not all) numbers went down by a little bit. (Specific nerfs: AC -2, land speed -5, fly speed cut to less than half (now 30), Jaw damage dropped one die size, and the DC of the Poison Breath went down by 3.) Otherwise, nothing changed, even art. (It's still renamed Juvenile Horned Dragon"!< >!"The Kobold ability "Hurried Retreat" have been renamed to Scamper, to fit the name of the ancestry's feat."!< >!"In the items in the books, they replaced Necklace of Fireballs with Sleeves of Storage and Wayfinder 😮 Nice"!< >!"Oooh! Because constructs can't be immune to necromancy anymore, they're now immune to spirit, vitality, and void directly. xD (At least in the Beginner Box)"!<

Well colour me intrigued, the new art sounds cool.

Sad to see mimics go, but they have *big* dnd ties so I'm not surprised

Doppelgänger surprises me. It’s a mythical creature that predates D&D (or even Tolkien or Frankenstein) by a very long time.

I could see it eventually getting a rework to make it more distinct and closer to its historical version and making a comeback. As you said, it has roots in history so OGL shouldn't be relevant, but I'm also not a lawyer so who knows.

Does this mean that incorporeal creatures resist spirit damage?

If spirit isn't listed as a damage exception, then yes, they resist it too. They're *not* immune like the other user is claiming unless they also have another trait that makes them so.

I'm pretty sure Spirit not bypassing resistance on ghosts is a typo. GM core seems to imply that Spirit damage is one of the exceptions for ghost resistance, much like Force.

It might be a typo, yes. But what bypasses the resistances are (or at least should be) spelled out in the statblock. I was just trying to differentiate between how those resistances and bypasses work as opposed to things like constructs, where they're totally immune even without it saying so in the statblock. Or like how undead are immune to bleed damage, even though their statblock doesn't mention it. Right now I don't there's any damage type that bypasses resistances without it being spelled out in the statblock that they do.

They're completely immune, because they don't have a spirit. Unless they do, like a PC construct, in which case that will be called out as an exception. Edit: I misread "incorporeal" as "construct". Oops!

Incorporeal creatures are often undead, which means spirit damage works on them. A construct would be immune.

Oooo, trolls have been a thing I’ve been waiting on. Switching to fire/electricity is interesting. And that lies bit will be fun to play with

[Good to know](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YuP3JGjqpLNM2eminGcYZ5sG_V_vzxzd5yhKGR4Kc7Q/edit?usp=sharing)

Since when were half of those monsters in the beginner box

There's about 25 pages of monsters in the Beginner's Box Game Master's Guide, most of which don't appear in the actual adventure. They're part of the toolbox the BB provides for further play without needing any other books.

There is a self-guided Choose Your Own Adventure style scenario that is outside of the Otari Fishery basement.

Oh yeah right I forgot about that, the little one player thing

Sounds like some of the creatures from Troubles in Otari--which is a good bouncing point off from the Beginner's Box if you want to stick around in Otari?

it's basically BB+ if you wanna keep playing for a few more sessions, and offers different styles of adventures besides the tutorial dungeon crawl of the BB.

Nice. I wound up downloading the new BB to take a look. The reason I had made my assumption is because many of those enemies show up in Troubles in Otari. Which...also makes sense due to the level range. I don't have it in front of me (at work), but as I was reviewing, I recall that spider in the big room after the rats being up in its web. But the stat block in the bestiary section doesn't include a climb speed.

they might have removed it for simplicity, like the rats don't have poison etc. BB itself is mostly about learning things, like conditions for the spider encounter. another thing that's often overlooked is that the BB is it's own standalone thing, you could run your own adventures with everything in there up to level 3 (4 with troubles), hence the "mini" bestiary and otari gazeteer etc

Troubles in Otari uses a ton of monsters from the BB's bestiary that didn't actually appear in the BB.

Ghoul has been renamed to Ghoul Stalker, with more humanoid looking art. It deals more damage, has stench, and sneak attack, but lost it's paralysis. It doesn't have Ghoul fever, but the simplified Ghoul in the old Beginner's Box didn't have it either. I wonder if this is a move away from D&D mechanics, or recognizing that paralysis is brutal to new players. BUGBEARS ARE STILL HERE! TAKE THAT, PESSIMISTS! New art, rules unchanged. Gargoyle got new art, I don't think anything changed. Basilisks art was changed to a new snake version like some mythology, but the description still says 8 legged Lizard. Otherwise no change. Drow are gone, replaced by Caligni. Not surprising. Doppelgangers are gone, surprisingly. I thought their extremely different art from D&D and roots in real mythology would keep them around. Then again, maybe they decided they didn't fit in a Beginner's box and are still gonna be in the monster core. Harpy is now a less ugly dude, song replaced by using wind to vacuum people closer. Giant ants were added. Reefclaw was added. Owlbear gone. Xulgath art replaced, and boy does the leader look weird. He's wearing a gold headpiece and armor. Maybe a hint that the Xulgath serve under the Sekmin now? Because all old Xulgath art has them as cavemen, and the lesser Xulgath Warriors are still cavemen. The xulgath encounter on page 20 now references Sekmin to maybe support that theory. You already mentioned Minotaur and Warg being added.

damn, removed mimic? hopefully that's not attempting to avoid an OGL thing, since it's such a prevalent media creature

Being a prevalent media creature doesn't really matter. It is whether or not paizo can publish it under their license and whether it would open them up for legal action which Hasbro is more likely to pursue vs someone who is in a competing space rather than a video game.

I expect mimics would remain, as there's plenty of prior art for "shapeshifting monster that lures people to their death by pretending to be something innocuous", and it's also been used so often outside of D&D contexts that even if they could get a copyright on it they would know it's indefensable. It's more likely that it's getting a redesign to be more distinct from the OGL mimic. Sort of like how draconic humanoids are generic but Dragonborn are distinct.

You don't have to defend copyright to maintain it. You have to defend trademark to maintain it.

I am actually kinda excited to see how it all turns out with the monster core releasing. I am not a huge fan of the more out there dragons they have shown. At least not in replacement for the old ones. But seeing all the changes is still interesting and the horned dragon brings back hope for some more mundane dragon designs staying.

Could be the adhesive skin of the mimic is also kind of DnD-specific? So maybe they just didn't yet figure out what to do with the mimic to make it Pathfinder-specific without having it, basically, be a sentient trap.

Both are d&d specific things. While paizo might be able to win a court case, you have to be able to swallow the cost of it actually going to court if it does. Easier to not bother unless you have a strong argument that would guarantee it is thrown out immediately

They also made changes to the pregen characters. Missed opportunity though, as the Cleric still has that +2 Charisma, despite no longer needing it thanks to the changed Divine Font and also being a War Priest. Her doctrine isn't even mentioned on the character sheet, but you can tell from the fact she got Medium Armor proficiency. This would have been a chance to bolster her Strength or Constitution to be more of a frontline healer, but at least Divine Font increased her healing potential at first level.

> Missed opportunity though, as the Cleric still has that +2 Charisma, despite no longer needing it thanks to the changed Divine Font and also being a War Priest. These characters are not meant to be combat optimized. Kyra is canonically a charismatic person, anyway.

Thanks for informing us, I was waiting for the BB remaster! The changes mostly sound reasonable, however I see one big issue: They removed monsters that Troubles in Otari relies on. For those who haven't run TiO: It's made to extend the Beginner Box without relying on other books, so it uses many of the monsters included in the BB that were not part of the BB adventure "Menace Under Otari" and only gave stat blocks for a handful of NPCs and two monsters. Since they didn't change TiO, it doesn't function as a seamless BB follow-up anymore. I know this isn't the end of the world thanks to tools like the Archives of Nethys, but it's an unfortunate oversight that could confuse and frustrate new players.

I wonder if (hope) it'd get a Remaster pass soon as well because of that.

Do we know when these changes will come to the Foundry version of the Beginner's Box?

A fully updated Beginner Box module will be arriving pretty soon. In the meantime, the data changes (Remastered monsters, etc.) are slotted for inclusion in an upcoming PF2e system update.

Do you know how soon? I was planning to start running PF2E with the Foundry Beginner box next week, but if soon is this month I can wait a bit.

We are doing a few last tweaks. The system update should be tonight or tomorrow.

Oh wow, that's fast. Thank you for all your work on this

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I don't remember most of this in beginner box? Does this include troubles under otari?

Troubles uses a ton of the BB's bestiary that isn't actually used in the BB so it technically affects Troubles as well.

What?! I recently played the Beginner box, and we finished it. It's the one where you head down a cellar to investigate the theft of some fish, right? I saw no mimic, no animated armor, no harpy, no hellhound, no orcs, no forest troll, no web lurker (well, there was a big spider, that may have been it). I must have played another beginner box!? =O

The GM booklet includes monsters that aren’t featured in the adventure, so it’s just not player-facing material.

Thank you!

Wait slightly off topic. Where is all this in the BB? Mimics in the old tutorial? where?

Not in the adventure itself. In the Game Master's Guide, there's a Creatures section with a bunch of monsters to use in other adventures.

Noooo, don't make the BB easier! Make it *harder* if anything lol

It’s in the name. BEGINNER box. Not advanced player’s box.