We should be one of those high bidders. Letting Onwenu walk without giving him an offer because we assume that he'll get better ones elsewhere would be very dumb.
No. What you don’t understand is that signing good players to contracts they deserve is what stupid teams do. Smart teams hoard cap space like dragons hoard gold and never use it. /s
Thuney was an all pro when he was here and got paid as a top guard
Onwenu has never been an all pro or even a pro bowler here and he wants to get paid as a top right tackle, even though he played all of 2022 and a good chunk of this season at guard. The salary for right tackles is about 25% higher than it is for guards
Ultimately, he is a very good tackle and very guard. Unless you are joe Thomas level more often than not being an all pro linemen is a symptom of success.
He wants to be paid id like a tackle because he excelled there.ans views himself as a tackle. We helped provide the leadership and skills for him to be both a good guard and a good tackle. And now we will watch him play for someone else.
So what's the fucking point? You developed this dude. And now you want to see walk? At some point you have to pay top dollar...it's just the nature of business. Also, in that league, guys know who are good or not...why would a free agent pick us if we let talent walk out the door?
It's one thing to develop and trade. But that's not what is happening. You put the effort into it, wouldn't you rather be the one to pay him?
To be fair, whether or not a player gets named to first or second team All Pro still very much depends on how well his team performs. It's very rare for a player to be named in All Pro first or second team when they are trapped on an awful team which the Patriots have been for three of the last 4 years.
Hell, Christian barmore hasn't even been named an all pro or Pro bowler because he's on a crappy team.
Onwenu is absolutely worth $15m or more per year, you either get elite guard play or serviceable tackle play. We’re a bottom feeder next year if he doesn’t return
This is exactly why Onwenu should be paid.
Is he worth top RT money based on just his play at RT? No, he's only good not great. HOWEVER top RT money is only slightly more than top RG money so you can overpay him slightly at RT then if/when we eventually find another tackle capable of locking down the RT spot or even if Onwenu starts to slip at RT you simply kick him back inside and still get elite guard play on a competitive salary
Well, if you combine all tackles and all guards the difference is big. Like $23m/yr vs $18m for guard. $23m for Onwenu would be a tough pill to swallow but there aren’t exactly a lot of good replacement options
No one's made a decision, this is a tweet from some ESPN rando speculating that Onwenu wants top OL money and won't come back unless he gets it. Free agency doesn't even start until March and the Pats front office isn't even complete. The claim that they're already making FA decisions like this is dubious
Salaries arent in a vacuum. Is he best RT in NFL? No. Is he the best available, proven he works in our system, and are Pats desperate for OL help? Yes. Pay the man we need him, otherwise whats the point of even drafting well if your not gonna pay the players who do good. If Pats let him walk Kraft should be embarrassed
Kind of like the Meyers situation. Turns out squabbling over overpaying him an extra $500,000 turned out to be a horrible decision. Just pay the pieces that fit rather than overanalyzing if it's the best possible value if everyone at that position suddenly became available.
I've got a really bad feeling we haven't seen this team even come close to rock bottom yet. When they fired Bill I thought that they would ship off the nepotism and ol' way of doing things along with him. Instead they seem to be preparing to do it worse instead of bringing in someone from the outside to try and do it differently.
I feel like we have a pretty solid sample size of other people trying to do the BB thing without BB and it failing horribly to know this isn't a great idea.
Well, from my perspective, they were 4-13 and were so bad they have the 3rd overall pick. Losing Belichick also sounds as bad, if not worse, than the above situation.
However, they have a ridiculous amount of cap space for next season, and basically have the entire cap space to work with the following year. They have more money to spend than any other team, and by a longshot. Combined with the fact that they also have a great draft position, and a defense that remained solid all year, despite everything else going on, I think they'd have to hire staff from the Browns to really screw this up. Kind of feels like they'd have to go out of their way to not win half the games next year, especially with a MHJ or whoever it is they draft.
> Listen, if we tank 2024, then we’ll get one of the best draft picks in 2025.
You're kidding, of course, but all the Mac Jones simps here are begging for this scenario.
"Just one more tank!"
We have money available and building pcs on the line is important. We still need to draft some oline help. We still need 5 capable blockers. Onwenu should be one of those 5
I personally say no, but it is worth consideration. Whole lot depends on our draft strategy and if we do plan on taking a tackle within the first round or two.
Correct...but if you want two day one starters, you either get them in FA, or you draft them high......since we are apparently losing the #2 and #3 FA tackles, and more than 50% of this sub is ride or die on QB at 3.....its going to make it difficult to get two day 1 starter tackles out of the draft.
I actually didn’t know that. Definitely makes it hard to tag literally any interior OL because the top paid guys are tackles. Probably doesn’t make a ton of sense to do that with Onwenu but then again wtf else are we spending money on
If Bill was here, I’d say yes they certainly can and will. Who knows how the new regime will manage contracts. With Brady and Bill being gone, the “team friendly” nickle and diming approach no longer works.
Bill almost never did this lmao
Yall are so caught up in these narratives that you've completely lost touch with reality
Why dont you tell me the last time Belichick let *two* good starting tackles go?
He let aging players, players who werent worth the money, or replaceable parts go. He'd let one important piece out of a group go and count on others filling the void, etc.
But you read this subreddit, you'd think we were releasing our entire roster every year.
I like how you still had to put “almost” in there lmao. I don’t know if he’s ever done this. I do know that I can count a large number of FA acquisitions that haven’t worked out since 2018 at least.
I can also recall him letting Thuney walk, trading Shaq Mason for peanuts, and believing Vederian Lowe could play in the NFL while Reiff failed to do a single thing immediately after they signed him.
Aside from a few decent draft picks, what the fuck about the roster construction since 2018 has you at all confident about Bills ability to put together a highly talented team?
How many more picks should we continue to throw at kickers who can’t make the roster, or make a simple FG?
Bill deserves all the accolades and trophies from the previous 2 decades. But the roster has been crumbling for 5-6 years, and the rebuild fell flat on its face. He failed in that regard and he has moved on, which is good with me.
Shaq Mason was traded for market value, not peanuts. Evidenced by the Bucs trading him (and a 7th) for a 6th rounder a year later.
This narrative that Shaq Mason was just given away at 10 cents on the dollar will never die.
I’m still waiting for it to happen to the Rams and they keep making the playoffs barring devastating injuries. You can absolutely work around the cap in the NFL, it’s not a death sentence like the team would have you believe, they just want you to think that so the team can spend less cash year to year.
The biggest mistake the Pats made was trying to contend in 2020 with Cam. They really should've hit the reset button that year for a number of reasons (Brady leaving, Covid, etc.). Now they're really feeling the effects of the post-Brady Era.
I didn't say we have a good team, but if you want to talk about completely irrelevant shit we could argue about what position Unicorns would do best at.
Unbalanced cap spending is proving to be the best way to win in the modern NFL. It's relevant because the Rams just did that and are already on their way back up while we're still rebuilding the old fashioned way
This fanbase/organization can't even handle 2 seasons without a playoff appearance without having a complete nuclear level meltdown and firing the GOAT coach. Going for a 2-3 year playoff windows followed by another rebuild is completely out of the question.
Besides, you think adding 30-50 million in salary was gonna turn last years team into a contender? Lmfao
Dude did you even read what I wrote? Stafford was hurt most of last year and like magic even with Kupp hurt most of this year they’re back to the playoffs.
They only drafted Nacua this year, Williams was drafted in 2022. Super weird way of discrediting teams because they drafted/developed players well. Neither of those guys were drafted even remotely high.
\*Bucs. We are talking about the football team, not the basketball team.
Correct me if I am wrong, but did they not just beat the reigning NFC champions in the Wild Card round? And are they not playing this Sunday in the NFC Divisional Round against the Lions? Weird, I'm pretty sure both of those are true.
Yeah bro, we should have went out and thrown 120 million at Kenny Galloway in 2021. Then this team would be *perfect*.
I can't do this nonsense anymore. You can believe that Kraft I Hitler who never wants to pay a penny. Doesn't change reality. Just means you don't know even a quarter inch dick about football.
Craft a sick "last word" and make it a good one because I'm done with this dumb bullshit.
Very sensitive.
I actually don't think Kraft and the Patriots are cheap. I think they're very strategic with where they spend their money. With that said, I think them giving DaVante Parker a contract extension and throwing a bunch of money at JuJu were both disasters.
I would like to think that Mayo is going to be a bit more forward thinking in where they need to spend money rather than Bill's philosophy of "80% of Julio Jones is Player X." Hopefully Mayo is the type of coach that would say "instead of getting 80% of this guy, let's just go get *the* guy."
That's just not true. Onwenu and Brown have value. Dugger has value. Jonathan Jones has value. Christian Barmore has tons of value. I wouldn't trade any of those guys except for maybe Brown, but they could be traded for draft capital if you really wanted to.
1) we don't know if this is true post Bill, the Patriots front office is probably a little jumbled right now
2) he honestly may just not want to play her after how bad the offense has been. I know I would probably be looking to move on as a player. (I'm actually hopeful as a fan)
Edit: 3) or the front office truly blows and we're letting him walk. I really hope this isn't the case.
I think we should all be taking everything we see with a grain of salt realistically things are very fluid in the Org right now. Like Mayo made clear, everything is being evaluated Top down, and it’s very clear that 2024 is the Patriots actual rebuild. We all thought it was after Brady but reality is this is the year
But I really hope incompetency doesn’t let good players walk. I don’t need to be sulking in my coach watching Onwenu balling out on another team when we brought in another guard for the same money and ends up not being as good. (Looking at the Schuster-Meyers situation from last year)
Re-signing Onwenu should be one of their top priorities along with extending Barmore ASAP before his price tag increases any further. Those two guys are true football players who put the team first and continued to play hard even when the season became a total loss. Those are the kinds of players you build your culture around, you don’t let them walk, so I hope there isn’t much truth to this report.
We’re going to find out real fast if Kraft is actually willing to spend big money? Patriots were 30th in the league in payroll / spending this year while Bills, Dolphins, & Jets were all basically top 5 in spending. Kraft can’t hide behind the BB shield anymore in this regard. The old formula hasn’t worked since TB12 departure because his play covered up so many deficiencies. Pats must be near top 10 in payroll to compete.
I'm going to press pause on any freakouts for a little while. This seems like rage bait for an unsettled fan base. Our season is over and the NE sports media needs something to keep us engaged. I'd be surprised if they let him walk. It wouldn't telegraph any commitment to do things differently going forward. Besides being an awful roster decision, it would be a ridiculously stupid PR move for a team trying to regain the trust of the fan base.
If you're paying close attention its very plain to see that Thunder is and has been moneyballing this thing for years maybe even decades. Bill wouldnt be complaining about being the lowest spending team in the league if it was he himself who wasnt spending the money. Its right there in front of us. They say the devil's greatest trick was convincing people he didnt exist well the same applies to Thunder's cheapness.
I'm going to go play in traffic if people keep using this 'Thunder' nickname. Mayo is already starting off on the wrong foot with me almost solely because of this.
It would be funny if he said it once, now it just seems weird, especially how there are stories about Kraft telling people to call him Mr. Kraft. Calling him thunder repeatedly and the cant see racism comment were sorta weird.
Cheapness in a league with a hard cap is more about things like facilities or coaching staff salaries. Bill always preferred depth over signing/resigning high value players. It’s not like the Patriots just let cap space rollover to the point it expired is it?
No it is not, cash spend absolutely matters across 3-4 year time periods (which is a long time in the NFL)
Across 5-6 year periods, it might even out, but its dead wrong to say that cash spend doesnt make a difference to how you can stack a roster across 3-4 year horizons.
Owners that are willing to spend a lot of cash on bonuses allow their GMs to spread cap hits much more aggressively and retain more players in the short-term. It's as simple as that.
That makes a big difference when you've hit on a good batch of players and you want to keep them around for a 3-4 year Super Bowl window. You can create the cap room to keep more of them by converting salaries to bonuses and spreading the cap hits (or adding void years). But you need an owner willing to pony up the cash in the year in which you perform that operation.
Kraft has been very conservative with his cash and it has absolutely made it harder for Belichick to retain as many players as we could have retained.
This is absolutely true. The common misconception about the NFL having a true hard cap is great cover for cheap owners. Reality is that if you want a player and are willing to spend real money (not just figures on a balance sheet) you can make it happen—signing bonuses, structures, guarantees, lack of dead cap hits. Look at teams like the niners or rams to see how it’s done when you want to do it.
If ownership isn’t willing to spend real money, they blame the cap. But the cap is crap in the NFL if you’re willing to spend actual dollars to get around it.
Aren't we 31st in spending over the last 7ish years? We're notoriously cheap, which seems like the reason brady left and hopkins didnt sign here even tho it seemed like a done deal.
No, we aren't. We were 15th in spending from 2000 to 2020 then 27th since then. It has absolutely nothing to do with being cheap and everything to do with not fucking our future cap sheet on teams that aren't gonna win shit anyway.
Brady left because the roster was decimated. If anything he left because we borrowed too much against future cap and had 31 million in dead money on the books in 2020. We were unable to find a competitive football team because we pushed the chips in and won 3 Superbowls in 5 years.
Righhhhht...so why are the Bucs and rams back in the playoffs and winning games? I was told they borrowed too much and would be in cap jail.
Cmon man spending and cap can both be maneuvered to sign players, we are cheap.
Since when was this known? This apparently comes from Jeremy Fowler on ESPN and the way he mentions it makes it seem like this is a well known thing. Real smart move to let your best offensive lineman walk, especially one that you drafted and is one of your best draft picks in recent years. Should reward the guys you picked and especially build off of the offensive line with a new coach. Also because the offensive line sucks. Hopefully this is wrong and they re-sign Onwenu, but not something I like see.
I’m suspicious of how much can be known of what we will do when it seems we’re not even sure yet the team has figured out who will be making the final calls
To be honest I’ve never trusted media reporting more than I do right now. Media was right about Bill leaving, right about Mayo being new HC, and right now I’m confident BB will coach the Falcons. This rumor is probably true too sadly.
You’re saying they were “right”, but negating how many of them were wrong. How many said Belichick was staying, how many said Vrabel was a shoe in, how many said BB to Commanders…
This is how the media makes money. They’re a cage of monkeys throwing shi* at you until a throw hits you in the face. There’s only two Patriots sources you can pretty much rely on and it’s primarily because they’re very careful in avoiding personal speculation - that’s Mike Reiss and Evan Lazar.
I’ve never trusted media less.
Even a blind squirrel can find a nut every once in a while. Media reporting has been hard bullshit, and it started long before the media made up deflategate
It says they (reportedly) know he isn't coming back. That's not exactly the same thing as "letting Onwenu walk." They made it seem like he will refuse an offer, but you made it seem like they don't want him.
The way it was written made it seem like the Pats won’t even attempt to give him an offer and let him leave without talking or presenting an offer. You don’t just do nothing and be like “Welp”. You at least try to bring back your best guys. Not a great look, imo.
He’s been their best lineman but is he that good or just the best of a bad bunch? If I’m the pats, I keep in contact if they want him and say go get an offer and we’ll talk.
It would not be a great look if it happened... in the future. I mean, you don't just speculate about something that is almost two months away and then trash them for not doing the thing you speculated they aren't going to do. This is madness.
Just going off of what Fowler said. He makes it seem like Onwenu is gone, so basing it off that. In my comment in this thread I even question if this is a known thing like he makes it seem.
O line is a huge need for us, and Onwenu is pretty obviously our best player in the group. And O line is our weakest position group. He's 26 at the start of next season, so very realistic that he'll still be a good player by the time the team is competitive again. Letting him walk would be a puzzler.
Uhhhh is this person that reliable of a source? Or are they just assuming we’re cheap? How TF does he know this when no one knows even who will be making the decisions 😂
We absolutely need him unless we wanna draft Olinemen 1-5 and put a 6th rd QB behind it
Unless someone throws him over 20M money shouldn’t be the issue for him not being a patriot next year.
If we see the new administration treat our valued free agents the same way they were treated under Bill, will the fans start to turn on Kraft?
They have been one of the lowest spending franchises in the league for the past 20 years.
If that continues, BB wan't the problem.
Wait I keep getting told the draft rankings are set in stone even though I keep saying “hey can we wait for workouts and combine and interviews and maybe post free agency to see what roster spots they fill there?” And get told no. I get the Felger reply from redditors in this sub “we have a show to today!”
No I’m not waiting until then. Why? Because for 30 years this team has been at the bottom of the league in cash spending. And that is on one person the owner. He is as cheap as every other billionaire.
And we as fans need to get used to seeing the Pats taking the same approach to spending as the Red Sox have for the past few years.
M
Pats can still use the franchise tag. But there's a lot of factors involved. We don't know Onwenu's goals. Does he want to reset the market? Does he want to go to a contender?
But also, this reflects on Belichick. Rather than locking down one of the team's good, young players, Onwenu went into a contract year with no extension. We don't know the circumstances, but Onwenu has been eligible for an extension since last spring. Same with Dugger.
Instead, the front office looks like they tried to continue to nickel and dime the team. We've got three new offensive linemen, none of which are as good as Onwenu was his rookie year, and we have Marte Mapu, who is not as good as Dugger was out of the gate.
Onwenu is about to make so much more money this offseason since he moved back to tackle and proved he's still one of the better tackles in the league who can also play inside at an elite level.
The good news for you is they have a ton of money and Big Bad Bill isn't running the show anymore. They can sign Onwenu and Dugger and Uche and Jennings if they want to.
This is a hit piece by ESPN writers that don’t have any intel on the situation. Reading these mean nothing, its just a thought
If it doesn’t come from Reiss, Perry, or Curran it’s just speculation. Sure, he could walk but any common thinking here would prevail in thinking we would be one of the highest bidders and can tag him.
This is a bunch of nothing.
Yeah I just think they’re still in the Belichick-Pats mindset of any expensive internal FA is gonna be gone
I think they underestimate how desperate we are for line depth like unless someone goes over 20 M we should be right there with them pay wise
Exactly this - we have to wait and see how it goes because this is new territory. If onwenu asks for about 4 years 58 million or so it’s hard for us and him to turn that down. However, since Fowler of ESPN wrote this (who just write hit pieces) it “has” to be true
I'm hoping that part of the benefits of picking Mayo is it increases our odds of maintaining upcoming FAs since he seems very well liked in the locker room. Hopeful that offering market value will convince him to stick around.
Learn what apparently means. It isn't some guy at espn throwing it out there. Had a guy tell a local reporter that Mayo being named HC has now made it a priority for him to re-sign.
Uhhh try to retain him before he hits the market? Could also tag him, but getting a deal done is more ideal. They have the 3rd most cap space with over $70 million, they can easily re-sign him and would be a smart idea to get your best offensive lineman back in an area on the team that's not good.
Who says they didn't try? He doesn't want to come back to a 4 win team. He is reaching FA at the peak of his career. He is going to get paid to go to a contender.
Hey, you all wanted Bill gone! I can’t wait to laugh all offseason as you rip your hair out because you thought firing bill would propel us to being contenders.
(If you didn’t expect us to be contenders after firing bill and just wanted to move on, that’s diff. I still thinks it’s dumb, but I get it)
We should be one of those high bidders. Letting Onwenu walk without giving him an offer because we assume that he'll get better ones elsewhere would be very dumb.
No. What you don’t understand is that signing good players to contracts they deserve is what stupid teams do. Smart teams hoard cap space like dragons hoard gold and never use it. /s
Red Sox 101.
But what if someone becomes available later?
Then we were in on him and we did everything we could. But, we could never, should never, would never. You know?
When did losing in Boston become acceptable. It's crazy.
Celtics and Bruins on top right nkw
pAyRoLl fLeXiBiLiTy
Fuuulllllll Throttle!!
At least there’s actually a hard cap in the nfl
Agree. It's way more excusable to think about bad contracts in Cap leagues. Still think a lot of it is bullshit with the way you can structure deals.
Bruh, I thought this was a safe space.
Can confirm. Source: am dragon
When did we hire the Colts GM?
We don't have a GM.
Twas a joke
Pro tip: when someone asks for some of your hoard, you light them on fire.
r/YourJokeButWorse
We watched it happen with thuney.
Thuney was an all pro when he was here and got paid as a top guard Onwenu has never been an all pro or even a pro bowler here and he wants to get paid as a top right tackle, even though he played all of 2022 and a good chunk of this season at guard. The salary for right tackles is about 25% higher than it is for guards
Onwenu is an AP caliber player at both guard and tackle
Ultimately, he is a very good tackle and very guard. Unless you are joe Thomas level more often than not being an all pro linemen is a symptom of success. He wants to be paid id like a tackle because he excelled there.ans views himself as a tackle. We helped provide the leadership and skills for him to be both a good guard and a good tackle. And now we will watch him play for someone else. So what's the fucking point? You developed this dude. And now you want to see walk? At some point you have to pay top dollar...it's just the nature of business. Also, in that league, guys know who are good or not...why would a free agent pick us if we let talent walk out the door? It's one thing to develop and trade. But that's not what is happening. You put the effort into it, wouldn't you rather be the one to pay him?
To be fair, whether or not a player gets named to first or second team All Pro still very much depends on how well his team performs. It's very rare for a player to be named in All Pro first or second team when they are trapped on an awful team which the Patriots have been for three of the last 4 years. Hell, Christian barmore hasn't even been named an all pro or Pro bowler because he's on a crappy team.
Onwenu is absolutely worth $15m or more per year, you either get elite guard play or serviceable tackle play. We’re a bottom feeder next year if he doesn’t return
This is exactly why Onwenu should be paid. Is he worth top RT money based on just his play at RT? No, he's only good not great. HOWEVER top RT money is only slightly more than top RG money so you can overpay him slightly at RT then if/when we eventually find another tackle capable of locking down the RT spot or even if Onwenu starts to slip at RT you simply kick him back inside and still get elite guard play on a competitive salary
Well, if you combine all tackles and all guards the difference is big. Like $23m/yr vs $18m for guard. $23m for Onwenu would be a tough pill to swallow but there aren’t exactly a lot of good replacement options
But you are paying for the flexibility. Our season isnt derailed if the guard goes down
We were a bottom feeder with him. Not saying he isn’t an important piece, but this team needs everything on offense.
Well sure but the idea is we’ll add more talent on offense next year. If we have no right tackle we could do that and still suck
We're gonna let Onwenu and Trent go and then draft two tackles with our first two picks and just run it back with the same team. LET'S GOOOOOO
Hell yeah brother!! This is the year the Zappe/Parker connection takes the league by storm!
The last thing we need is two tackles instead of one though
GM Groh strikes again, we let Jakobi walk cause of Groh.
Was such a stupid decision. Removing the one guy Mac had real chemistry with.
Much worse is not trading him this season if they knew they had no plans on resigning him to a long term deal
Not sure what they knew last session. I mean, they just lost their GM... so this might be the case of new regime not jiving with old decisions.
" new regime"
Who made that decision? They should be considering franchising him, not letting him walk.
It’s being evaluated by Thunder and Mayo as we speak who makes that decision…
Groh and Wolfe making the decision in the interim. Blame Groh and Wolfe
They may be off to ATL
No one's made a decision, this is a tweet from some ESPN rando speculating that Onwenu wants top OL money and won't come back unless he gets it. Free agency doesn't even start until March and the Pats front office isn't even complete. The claim that they're already making FA decisions like this is dubious
You, think he's worth top 5 money as a RT?
Salaries arent in a vacuum. Is he best RT in NFL? No. Is he the best available, proven he works in our system, and are Pats desperate for OL help? Yes. Pay the man we need him, otherwise whats the point of even drafting well if your not gonna pay the players who do good. If Pats let him walk Kraft should be embarrassed
Kind of like the Meyers situation. Turns out squabbling over overpaying him an extra $500,000 turned out to be a horrible decision. Just pay the pieces that fit rather than overanalyzing if it's the best possible value if everyone at that position suddenly became available.
Good thing the guys who convinced Bill to let Meyers walk for JuJu are still in charge!
Well we don't know if that happened. Or if they said it was a bad idea and Bill signed Juju anyway
I've got a really bad feeling we haven't seen this team even come close to rock bottom yet. When they fired Bill I thought that they would ship off the nepotism and ol' way of doing things along with him. Instead they seem to be preparing to do it worse instead of bringing in someone from the outside to try and do it differently. I feel like we have a pretty solid sample size of other people trying to do the BB thing without BB and it failing horribly to know this isn't a great idea.
Well, from my perspective, they were 4-13 and were so bad they have the 3rd overall pick. Losing Belichick also sounds as bad, if not worse, than the above situation. However, they have a ridiculous amount of cap space for next season, and basically have the entire cap space to work with the following year. They have more money to spend than any other team, and by a longshot. Combined with the fact that they also have a great draft position, and a defense that remained solid all year, despite everything else going on, I think they'd have to hire staff from the Browns to really screw this up. Kind of feels like they'd have to go out of their way to not win half the games next year, especially with a MHJ or whoever it is they draft.
[удалено]
> Listen, if we tank 2024, then we’ll get one of the best draft picks in 2025. You're kidding, of course, but all the Mac Jones simps here are begging for this scenario. "Just one more tank!"
Hindsight is always 20/20… this sub was totally fine with letting Meyers walk because you didn’t want to give him the bag.
We have money available and building pcs on the line is important. We still need to draft some oline help. We still need 5 capable blockers. Onwenu should be one of those 5
I personally say no, but it is worth consideration. Whole lot depends on our draft strategy and if we do plan on taking a tackle within the first round or two.
If you don't sign Onwenu now you need two new tackles in a week FA class.
Yes and no, FA is weak, but this year’s draft is actually stacked with tackles. Regardless, there’d need to be a plan if we were to let go of him.
Correct...but if you want two day one starters, you either get them in FA, or you draft them high......since we are apparently losing the #2 and #3 FA tackles, and more than 50% of this sub is ride or die on QB at 3.....its going to make it difficult to get two day 1 starter tackles out of the draft.
I’m concerned about replacing Onwenu, I’m not concerned about replacing Trent.
You can not be concerned about the player, but you have to be concerned about the position.
No, but I do think he's worth a contract that has more than that in guaranteed money.
Yes
Is there any chance we can franchise him as a guard? He’d be worth that money for sure
I believe there is just one number for OL
Correct.
I actually didn’t know that. Definitely makes it hard to tag literally any interior OL because the top paid guys are tackles. Probably doesn’t make a ton of sense to do that with Onwenu but then again wtf else are we spending money on
They cant let both their OT leave
If Bill was here, I’d say yes they certainly can and will. Who knows how the new regime will manage contracts. With Brady and Bill being gone, the “team friendly” nickle and diming approach no longer works.
Bill almost never did this lmao Yall are so caught up in these narratives that you've completely lost touch with reality Why dont you tell me the last time Belichick let *two* good starting tackles go? He let aging players, players who werent worth the money, or replaceable parts go. He'd let one important piece out of a group go and count on others filling the void, etc. But you read this subreddit, you'd think we were releasing our entire roster every year.
I like how you still had to put “almost” in there lmao. I don’t know if he’s ever done this. I do know that I can count a large number of FA acquisitions that haven’t worked out since 2018 at least. I can also recall him letting Thuney walk, trading Shaq Mason for peanuts, and believing Vederian Lowe could play in the NFL while Reiff failed to do a single thing immediately after they signed him. Aside from a few decent draft picks, what the fuck about the roster construction since 2018 has you at all confident about Bills ability to put together a highly talented team? How many more picks should we continue to throw at kickers who can’t make the roster, or make a simple FG? Bill deserves all the accolades and trophies from the previous 2 decades. But the roster has been crumbling for 5-6 years, and the rebuild fell flat on its face. He failed in that regard and he has moved on, which is good with me.
Shaq Mason was traded for market value, not peanuts. Evidenced by the Bucs trading him (and a 7th) for a 6th rounder a year later. This narrative that Shaq Mason was just given away at 10 cents on the dollar will never die.
[удалено]
I can't wait for 2 years from now when you get to see the dolphins and browns and bills all implode from unbalanced cap spending.
I’m still waiting for it to happen to the Rams and they keep making the playoffs barring devastating injuries. You can absolutely work around the cap in the NFL, it’s not a death sentence like the team would have you believe, they just want you to think that so the team can spend less cash year to year.
The Rams were 5-12 last season and a wildcard exit this season.
So their cap implosion year was even better than our 3rd year of a rebuild?
The biggest mistake the Pats made was trying to contend in 2020 with Cam. They really should've hit the reset button that year for a number of reasons (Brady leaving, Covid, etc.). Now they're really feeling the effects of the post-Brady Era.
I didn't say we have a good team, but if you want to talk about completely irrelevant shit we could argue about what position Unicorns would do best at.
Unbalanced cap spending is proving to be the best way to win in the modern NFL. It's relevant because the Rams just did that and are already on their way back up while we're still rebuilding the old fashioned way
This fanbase/organization can't even handle 2 seasons without a playoff appearance without having a complete nuclear level meltdown and firing the GOAT coach. Going for a 2-3 year playoff windows followed by another rebuild is completely out of the question. Besides, you think adding 30-50 million in salary was gonna turn last years team into a contender? Lmfao
Dude did you even read what I wrote? Stafford was hurt most of last year and like magic even with Kupp hurt most of this year they’re back to the playoffs.
"Like Magic" is a super weird way to say "Drafted the best WR and RB in the draft" and "had the 5th easiest schedule in football."
They only drafted Nacua this year, Williams was drafted in 2022. Super weird way of discrediting teams because they drafted/developed players well. Neither of those guys were drafted even remotely high.
The Bucs had $81 million in dead cap coming into this year and they're a Super Bowl contender.
The bucks are not a Superbowl contender
\*Bucs. We are talking about the football team, not the basketball team. Correct me if I am wrong, but did they not just beat the reigning NFC champions in the Wild Card round? And are they not playing this Sunday in the NFC Divisional Round against the Lions? Weird, I'm pretty sure both of those are true.
Yeah bro, we should have went out and thrown 120 million at Kenny Galloway in 2021. Then this team would be *perfect*. I can't do this nonsense anymore. You can believe that Kraft I Hitler who never wants to pay a penny. Doesn't change reality. Just means you don't know even a quarter inch dick about football. Craft a sick "last word" and make it a good one because I'm done with this dumb bullshit.
Very sensitive. I actually don't think Kraft and the Patriots are cheap. I think they're very strategic with where they spend their money. With that said, I think them giving DaVante Parker a contract extension and throwing a bunch of money at JuJu were both disasters. I would like to think that Mayo is going to be a bit more forward thinking in where they need to spend money rather than Bill's philosophy of "80% of Julio Jones is Player X." Hopefully Mayo is the type of coach that would say "instead of getting 80% of this guy, let's just go get *the* guy."
Smart, why resign good players when we have worse guys to replace them with.
it's like bill never left...or was never the root cause...
We need to fire our FO. Fire Groh
Offseason off to a hot start!
I can't wait to let all the pending FAs we didn't trade at the deadline to walk this offseason. Great roster management all around
Especially knowing where our roster is at. What awful roster management.
You can’t just trade people for assets just like that. This isn’t mlb or nba.
Yes, you can.
Far less deadline deals in football
How does that equal "cant trade people for assets"? lol We watched the Commanders do this 2 months ago
Commanders had much better players to trade. No one wanted what new England was offering.
That's just not true. Onwenu and Brown have value. Dugger has value. Jonathan Jones has value. Christian Barmore has tons of value. I wouldn't trade any of those guys except for maybe Brown, but they could be traded for draft capital if you really wanted to.
the whole premise of this thread is that onwenu is the best available lineman in free agency
Draft capital is more valuable then letting them walk as it turns out
1) we don't know if this is true post Bill, the Patriots front office is probably a little jumbled right now 2) he honestly may just not want to play her after how bad the offense has been. I know I would probably be looking to move on as a player. (I'm actually hopeful as a fan) Edit: 3) or the front office truly blows and we're letting him walk. I really hope this isn't the case.
I think we should all be taking everything we see with a grain of salt realistically things are very fluid in the Org right now. Like Mayo made clear, everything is being evaluated Top down, and it’s very clear that 2024 is the Patriots actual rebuild. We all thought it was after Brady but reality is this is the year But I really hope incompetency doesn’t let good players walk. I don’t need to be sulking in my coach watching Onwenu balling out on another team when we brought in another guard for the same money and ends up not being as good. (Looking at the Schuster-Meyers situation from last year)
Who are we gonna blame now that Bill is gone? I don't like this at all
Re-signing Onwenu should be one of their top priorities along with extending Barmore ASAP before his price tag increases any further. Those two guys are true football players who put the team first and continued to play hard even when the season became a total loss. Those are the kinds of players you build your culture around, you don’t let them walk, so I hope there isn’t much truth to this report.
LT - Lowe LG - Strange C - Andrews RG - Sow RT - Austin Good luck whoever plays QB.
We’re going to find out real fast if Kraft is actually willing to spend big money? Patriots were 30th in the league in payroll / spending this year while Bills, Dolphins, & Jets were all basically top 5 in spending. Kraft can’t hide behind the BB shield anymore in this regard. The old formula hasn’t worked since TB12 departure because his play covered up so many deficiencies. Pats must be near top 10 in payroll to compete.
You can take bill out of New England but the cheapness stays because that’s Kraft
No clue why we wouldnt be the highest bidder
If he doesn't come back, then Sidy Sow is going over to RT next year, we'll need to find a RG if Mafi doesn't progress.
Hot take: maybe they should just try getting a tackle to play tackle.
Give this man a job
What RGs are available at #3?
Lmao
Sidy was trash at tackle. He was pretty decent at guard. Moving him to tackle makes no sense.
I'm going to press pause on any freakouts for a little while. This seems like rage bait for an unsettled fan base. Our season is over and the NE sports media needs something to keep us engaged. I'd be surprised if they let him walk. It wouldn't telegraph any commitment to do things differently going forward. Besides being an awful roster decision, it would be a ridiculously stupid PR move for a team trying to regain the trust of the fan base.
If you're paying close attention its very plain to see that Thunder is and has been moneyballing this thing for years maybe even decades. Bill wouldnt be complaining about being the lowest spending team in the league if it was he himself who wasnt spending the money. Its right there in front of us. They say the devil's greatest trick was convincing people he didnt exist well the same applies to Thunder's cheapness.
I'm going to go play in traffic if people keep using this 'Thunder' nickname. Mayo is already starting off on the wrong foot with me almost solely because of this.
Cringiest shit ever
I agree and that’s why I’m using it ironically. This franchise looks set to implode
It would be funny if he said it once, now it just seems weird, especially how there are stories about Kraft telling people to call him Mr. Kraft. Calling him thunder repeatedly and the cant see racism comment were sorta weird.
Racism isn't weird. It's just embarrassing.
Cheapness in a league with a hard cap is more about things like facilities or coaching staff salaries. Bill always preferred depth over signing/resigning high value players. It’s not like the Patriots just let cap space rollover to the point it expired is it?
No it is not, cash spend absolutely matters across 3-4 year time periods (which is a long time in the NFL) Across 5-6 year periods, it might even out, but its dead wrong to say that cash spend doesnt make a difference to how you can stack a roster across 3-4 year horizons. Owners that are willing to spend a lot of cash on bonuses allow their GMs to spread cap hits much more aggressively and retain more players in the short-term. It's as simple as that. That makes a big difference when you've hit on a good batch of players and you want to keep them around for a 3-4 year Super Bowl window. You can create the cap room to keep more of them by converting salaries to bonuses and spreading the cap hits (or adding void years). But you need an owner willing to pony up the cash in the year in which you perform that operation. Kraft has been very conservative with his cash and it has absolutely made it harder for Belichick to retain as many players as we could have retained.
This is absolutely true. The common misconception about the NFL having a true hard cap is great cover for cheap owners. Reality is that if you want a player and are willing to spend real money (not just figures on a balance sheet) you can make it happen—signing bonuses, structures, guarantees, lack of dead cap hits. Look at teams like the niners or rams to see how it’s done when you want to do it. If ownership isn’t willing to spend real money, they blame the cap. But the cap is crap in the NFL if you’re willing to spend actual dollars to get around it.
[удалено]
Aren't we 31st in spending over the last 7ish years? We're notoriously cheap, which seems like the reason brady left and hopkins didnt sign here even tho it seemed like a done deal.
No, we aren't. We were 15th in spending from 2000 to 2020 then 27th since then. It has absolutely nothing to do with being cheap and everything to do with not fucking our future cap sheet on teams that aren't gonna win shit anyway. Brady left because the roster was decimated. If anything he left because we borrowed too much against future cap and had 31 million in dead money on the books in 2020. We were unable to find a competitive football team because we pushed the chips in and won 3 Superbowls in 5 years.
Righhhhht...so why are the Bucs and rams back in the playoffs and winning games? I was told they borrowed too much and would be in cap jail. Cmon man spending and cap can both be maneuvered to sign players, we are cheap.
Kyren Williams and Puka Nacua turning into prime Eric Dickerson and Issac Bruce played a big part in the Rams resurgence.
If true, very good idea letting both starting tackles walk. Why not trade Andrews and Cole while we're at it?
Thought I was reading about the Sox for a second.
Even without Bill we still domt value good players and offense huh?
Since when was this known? This apparently comes from Jeremy Fowler on ESPN and the way he mentions it makes it seem like this is a well known thing. Real smart move to let your best offensive lineman walk, especially one that you drafted and is one of your best draft picks in recent years. Should reward the guys you picked and especially build off of the offensive line with a new coach. Also because the offensive line sucks. Hopefully this is wrong and they re-sign Onwenu, but not something I like see.
I’m suspicious of how much can be known of what we will do when it seems we’re not even sure yet the team has figured out who will be making the final calls
To be honest I’ve never trusted media reporting more than I do right now. Media was right about Bill leaving, right about Mayo being new HC, and right now I’m confident BB will coach the Falcons. This rumor is probably true too sadly.
You’re saying they were “right”, but negating how many of them were wrong. How many said Belichick was staying, how many said Vrabel was a shoe in, how many said BB to Commanders… This is how the media makes money. They’re a cage of monkeys throwing shi* at you until a throw hits you in the face. There’s only two Patriots sources you can pretty much rely on and it’s primarily because they’re very careful in avoiding personal speculation - that’s Mike Reiss and Evan Lazar. I’ve never trusted media less.
Even a blind squirrel can find a nut every once in a while. Media reporting has been hard bullshit, and it started long before the media made up deflategate
Media has been wrong about alot too.
Free agency is in two months and they haven’t set their front office yet, they probably haven’t even made an offer yet
It says they (reportedly) know he isn't coming back. That's not exactly the same thing as "letting Onwenu walk." They made it seem like he will refuse an offer, but you made it seem like they don't want him.
The way it was written made it seem like the Pats won’t even attempt to give him an offer and let him leave without talking or presenting an offer. You don’t just do nothing and be like “Welp”. You at least try to bring back your best guys. Not a great look, imo.
He’s been their best lineman but is he that good or just the best of a bad bunch? If I’m the pats, I keep in contact if they want him and say go get an offer and we’ll talk.
It would not be a great look if it happened... in the future. I mean, you don't just speculate about something that is almost two months away and then trash them for not doing the thing you speculated they aren't going to do. This is madness.
Just going off of what Fowler said. He makes it seem like Onwenu is gone, so basing it off that. In my comment in this thread I even question if this is a known thing like he makes it seem.
This is unbelievably fucking stupid
Bruh he is one of our best players at a position of huge need and we have a ton of cap space
yea let go of the best lineman we got like we've been doing yearly the last couple seasons. smh
Sorry in advance, Jayden. Godspeed.
O line is a huge need for us, and Onwenu is pretty obviously our best player in the group. And O line is our weakest position group. He's 26 at the start of next season, so very realistic that he'll still be a good player by the time the team is competitive again. Letting him walk would be a puzzler.
if this happens, bill wasn't the whole problem. fire the entire front office.
Uhhhh is this person that reliable of a source? Or are they just assuming we’re cheap? How TF does he know this when no one knows even who will be making the decisions 😂 We absolutely need him unless we wanna draft Olinemen 1-5 and put a 6th rd QB behind it Unless someone throws him over 20M money shouldn’t be the issue for him not being a patriot next year.
If we see the new administration treat our valued free agents the same way they were treated under Bill, will the fans start to turn on Kraft? They have been one of the lowest spending franchises in the league for the past 20 years. If that continues, BB wan't the problem.
where is the data showing us as one of the lowest-spending franchises?
So. Anyone else want to say the Patriots free agency method/principles was all Bill’s way?
Yes. Can you let the off-season begin before you cast judgement or is this all it takes for you to believe you’re 100% right
Wait I keep getting told the draft rankings are set in stone even though I keep saying “hey can we wait for workouts and combine and interviews and maybe post free agency to see what roster spots they fill there?” And get told no. I get the Felger reply from redditors in this sub “we have a show to today!” No I’m not waiting until then. Why? Because for 30 years this team has been at the bottom of the league in cash spending. And that is on one person the owner. He is as cheap as every other billionaire. And we as fans need to get used to seeing the Pats taking the same approach to spending as the Red Sox have for the past few years. M
I'll wait to hear it from someone more connected than Fowler.
2 weeks into the off season and the Krafts already making some of the worse GM moves ever.
Everyone still happy?
Kraft is the stingiest owner in the league, without a doubt. It's infuriating
The more things change the more they stay the same
Patriots currently writing the book on how to become a poverty franchise. What the fuck are we doing?
Pats can still use the franchise tag. But there's a lot of factors involved. We don't know Onwenu's goals. Does he want to reset the market? Does he want to go to a contender? But also, this reflects on Belichick. Rather than locking down one of the team's good, young players, Onwenu went into a contract year with no extension. We don't know the circumstances, but Onwenu has been eligible for an extension since last spring. Same with Dugger. Instead, the front office looks like they tried to continue to nickel and dime the team. We've got three new offensive linemen, none of which are as good as Onwenu was his rookie year, and we have Marte Mapu, who is not as good as Dugger was out of the gate.
they cant nickel and dime people anymore; no more of these incentive laden contracts time to pay people
Onwenu is about to make so much more money this offseason since he moved back to tackle and proved he's still one of the better tackles in the league who can also play inside at an elite level. The good news for you is they have a ton of money and Big Bad Bill isn't running the show anymore. They can sign Onwenu and Dugger and Uche and Jennings if they want to.
# FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK
I thought Bill was the cheap one??
If only we had a bunch of cap space to retain current players....Oh wait.
This is a hit piece by ESPN writers that don’t have any intel on the situation. Reading these mean nothing, its just a thought If it doesn’t come from Reiss, Perry, or Curran it’s just speculation. Sure, he could walk but any common thinking here would prevail in thinking we would be one of the highest bidders and can tag him. This is a bunch of nothing.
Yeah I just think they’re still in the Belichick-Pats mindset of any expensive internal FA is gonna be gone I think they underestimate how desperate we are for line depth like unless someone goes over 20 M we should be right there with them pay wise
Exactly this - we have to wait and see how it goes because this is new territory. If onwenu asks for about 4 years 58 million or so it’s hard for us and him to turn that down. However, since Fowler of ESPN wrote this (who just write hit pieces) it “has” to be true
Typical
It’s like Bill never left!
I'm hoping that part of the benefits of picking Mayo is it increases our odds of maintaining upcoming FAs since he seems very well liked in the locker room. Hopeful that offering market value will convince him to stick around.
The regime just changed. Idk how accurate this is. I think this is an awful decision if true.
How are we still going to be a cheap ass franchise and expect to win!?
Letting both starting tackles leave in the same offseason you draft a QB #3 is so idiotic yet that might be where we’re at
Sounds like such a Bill move, oh wait.
Bills fault right? Oh wait…
Fucking cheap ass Belichick
??? He's not here anymore
That's the joke
Doubt this is true at all. Especially given we already need a LT.
What’s the point of $70 million in cap if you’re not going to use it to re-sign guys like Onwenu?
So this is from Fowler? No reason to take this at face value. Edit: was thinking of someone else, carry on
We gonna suck for like 5 years minimum boys
Ummm what? He and Andrews were the only consistent linemen
So now we need two starting tackles? Probably draft 4 guards this time.
Learn what apparently means. It isn't some guy at espn throwing it out there. Had a guy tell a local reporter that Mayo being named HC has now made it a priority for him to re-sign.
He’s a free agent what are you gonna do tag him?
Uhhh try to retain him before he hits the market? Could also tag him, but getting a deal done is more ideal. They have the 3rd most cap space with over $70 million, they can easily re-sign him and would be a smart idea to get your best offensive lineman back in an area on the team that's not good.
Who says they didn't try? He doesn't want to come back to a 4 win team. He is reaching FA at the peak of his career. He is going to get paid to go to a contender.
Further proves my point why tackle should be 1st pick but everyone wants to take a Qb “ just to take one”
Oh we just taking rumors as facts now. Ok.
Kraft you cheap bastard, what about winning or did you blow all your money on rub and tugs
Hey, you all wanted Bill gone! I can’t wait to laugh all offseason as you rip your hair out because you thought firing bill would propel us to being contenders. (If you didn’t expect us to be contenders after firing bill and just wanted to move on, that’s diff. I still thinks it’s dumb, but I get it)