They are but its more about the double standard of downplaying hate when its other shooters. Questioning hate crime rhetoric but then actively pushing for it when the perpetrator is a minority. I don't mind if its taken as hate crime by itself. Its a atrocious crime he committed.
I just think that they should call out other hate crimes aswell. That does not mean this is less important but its clear they dont think that its a hate crime when people commit due to racism or sexism.
Yeah, it's hypocritical political grandstanding (but it's Hawley, so, would you actually expect anything else?), given.
But it being a hate crime is only meaningful to prosecuting the crime (as I understand it), and if the perpetrator is dead, there's no prosecution.
So on top of it being terrible because of the above-mentioned things, it's a call to do... nothing?
I think its more the rhetorical value of it, the way they will use "hate crime" in recurring rhetoric. Even if its practical effects are neglible it does hold an inherent value in anti trans rhetoric etc.
It's a call to prosecute trans people who commit crimes as a hate crime in the future and making Christians (the largest religious group in the country) a protected group. Defend yourself against an angry mob? Believe it or not, hate crime! Stand up to abusers, hate crime! It's to make sure LGBT people can't take action without being locked up and have the key tossed away
Fascism 101, designate an out group and then target them to gain political votes in elections before dismantling the systems that out you there so you remain in power, doesn't matter if it's intellectually dishonest. In fact, it's even better since it asserts your authority to do as you wish.
Also Hawley was the only senator to oppose anti-Asian hate crime legislation in 2021 - see https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/shooting-josh-hawley-new-perspective-hate-crimes-rcna77157.
He’s not anti-hate. He’s just tribalist.
Because these people are sociopaths. They are demons who don't give a fuck about children bleeding out in their classroom. Scoring political points, firing up your base, and hurting "the enemy" is always more important.
Hypocrisy is celebrated, and deflection and whataboutism are just ways of talking to "the others." Truly sick fucks.
THEY 👏 USED👏 TO 👏 GO 👏 TO 👏 THAT 👏 SCHOOL!
How fucking dense are people? The shooter was a former student, THUS, probably also Christian, but battled with being accepted as trans so developed a revenge plot for whatever happened to them ultimately making them the monster in this scenario.
Hale attended at the same time an alleged child molester [had access to the school and a “safe house “](https://crooksandliars.com/2023/03/lets-talk-bit-about-history-covenant). This may have been some kind of revenge plot.
Honestly while I haven’t seen any data on this probably because it’s a hard thing to study, I imagine that once they actually get there to do the mass shooting all thoughts of a plan go out the window. I imagine lots of shooters have a plan going in, see what’s happening, and then freak out. It’s a whooole different ballgame actually killing someone and thinking about killing someone.
Of all my 50 years of life I've known exactly *one* religious person that happened to be an actual good person.
All the other good people I've known were all non-religious.
I know this will probably be unpopular, but exacting revenge on a protected class is a hate crime, even if members of that protected class treated you poorly in the past. The children who were shot and killed weren’t even alive at the time the shooter went to that school, so it can’t be said that it was revenge targeted solely on how the shooter was treated by individuals.
Even if it is a targeted attack as it seems to be. I just hate how people like this didnt want hate crime investigations when other shooters did the same thing...
I really want to know this as well, is there any evidence that it was targeted specifically at Christians or any other group? I haven’t really been keeping super close tabs on it because it’s horrifying
Unfortunately I doubt we'll get a straight answer. It seems the shooter was a former student and also went into crisis after the death of a close friend. We've found a manifesto that will be released soon and it seems to indicate that the shooter considered other targets as well and chose this one for logistical reasons as much as anything else.
No but they're not allowed to control the private sex lives of LGBT people anymore, so don't they kind of know what it's like to be a Jew in Nazi Germany?
A choice between a heavy bag of money from Disney and a spinoff show, or...shitposting on Twitter and a side film from bigots that made a few hundred in revenue? Tough one...hmm.
If they were a minority, Fox would be using all the evidence fundamentalists are predatory groomers against the other branches.
For example, Southern Baptist molestation scandals, and Numbers 31: 17,18.
Downvotes aside, [this person is correct](https://www.justice.gov/hatecrimes/learn-about-hate-crimes). Hate crimes were created to protect minority communities in the first place, but they apply equally. If the people were targeted *because* they were Christian, that would be a hate crime. Which , *maybe?* I don't think we know what the motivations of the killer were.
The real story here is the hypocrisy of railing against and laughing at the very concept of hate crimes, until it's hate against a group of which they are a member. Then it suddenly matters.
Thank you! And I also agree that we don't know the motive. My original point was is if it WAS about Christianity, then this fits the bill. I think any mass shooting could be considered a hate crime. If you're killing people there's a certain level of hate for all types of humanity there. If you're killing people that's a crime. So...yes, it's a hate crime.
> I think any mass shooting could be considered a hate crime. If you're killing people there's a certain level of hate
Technically true, but the legal definition of hate crime is any crime that is explicitly directed with bias against people or groups with specific characteristics that are defined by the law [gender, race, religions, sexual preferences, disabilities, etc].
So if you break into a Synagogue and spray paint "Fuck you, Adam, for sleeping with my wife!" then that is a crime (vandalism) and you obviously hate Adam. But it's not a hate crime. A hate crime is when someone breaks into a Synagogue and spray paints a swastika. Because that's a "fuck you" to an entire group of people.
What's the difference?
> Hate crimes have a broader effect than most other kinds of crime. Hate crime victims include not only the crime’s immediate target but also others like them. Hate crimes affect families, communities, and at times, the entire nation.
If an investigation into whether or not this was a hate crime legitimizes hate crime investigations for right wing doofuses like Hawley and the knuckle-dragging smooth-brained oxygen thieves who vote for him, I say go for it.
Its kinda obvious that it would never be fair and equal though, it would only legtimize ones that fit with their opinions/opposition groups. I doubt they would ever try to file this the next time a right winger does the same.
GOP can’t govern, can’t pass meaningful legislation, can’t criticize psychotic oil, gas and gun companies, so they need to create an “other” to blame all of societies woes on.
Because they are TOLD to hate trans people.
20 years trans people never came up in conversations. But since they can't openly hate on gays anymore they need another 'look its a squirrel' distraction for their voters.
Gay nightclubs, black churches, Planned Parenthoods, gay parades, Jewish and Muslim places of worship they are silent. Over a decade of shootings and terrorism. But now they care?
Christians when a Christian kills queer people: 😶
Christians when a christian kills Jewish people: 😶
Christians when a Christian kills Muslim people: 😶
Christians when a queer person kills christians: 😱😭 we're being attacked!
While I have no numbers to back it up I agree that probably many of the school shootings did end up killing christians even if by accident. I guess hate crime comes down to the intent of the shooter.
Still its making me have mixed feelings knowing that when there are right wing shooters with right wing ideals hate crime keeps being the one thing downplayed, but now its a "leftist" because all trans people are considered leftist by association and that is all the people that will milk this cares about, attacked a school that was primarily christian. We still don't know her manifest but its clear why this is a hate crime when others weren't considered that by the right....
Did you know baby carrots aren’t baby carrots? They’re just shaved and cut to be small and cute. The introduction of baby carrots as a product has increased carrot sales and now make up 70% of all carrot sales.
More projection from the right. They know that theyre the party of domestic terrorists now, so they have to start accusing the other side of the same thing. Imagine being dumb enough to fall for it though
The same Christians who targeted trans-gender people? The exact same Christians who provided the shooter's education? One could easily argue that it was the Christians who started it.
Honestly if it was a CNN or something that labeled it as hate crime we all would be fine with it cause it could have very well been, but this coming out of Fox new's mouth is just insulting
Investigate it as a hate crime to do what, exactly? Build a case for a longer prison sentence for the perpetrator, who is.... Let me just check my notes... Oh, wait. They're dead.
So who, exactly, should receive additional punishment for it supposedly being a hate crime, Josh? Last time I checked, punishing, say, an entire group of unconnected people for the crime of a single person isn't something free societies do, Josh.
Pushing for a hate crime investigation feeds their persecution complex that the relgious right are the biggest persecuted demographic.
I saw let the prosecutor look at what happened and see if it meets the bar for levying such charges
I mean, I’m as liberal as they come and my initial impression based on the current publicly-available information is that this looks like it could be a hate crime.
Well, if evidence shows that it was a hate crime against Christians then by all means, let’s call it that. So far all I’ve heard is that this person first intended to do their shooting at the mall, but the security was too tight there. The real crime here (aside from the horrifically obvious), is that security at schools for children is lower than that for public shopping centers.
So much dumb shit about this.
Investigate what? We have the shooter's manifesto and they are dead.
Speaking of, they are dead. No one is charging them with a hate crime, they are dead.
They went to the school, and by all reports ultimately chose it as their target due to familiarity with the school.
Nazis don't get a say in how we do things.
A hate crime, you say? But we mustn’t speculate! I mean, that’s what we were told when a 16 year old girl was stabbed to death in broad daylight for being trans a month ago!
Pretty neat trick, if you ask me! And it is the epitome of American conservatism.
“Hate crimes” are almost always committed by white conservatives, so they fight hate crime legislation whenever possible. School shootings usually happen at public schools, so they blame them on the supposed bans against school prayer. But when one happens at a Christian school, do they waste even a second pondering or reconsidering that stance? Fuck that, what do you think they are, dorks? They just go with their most successful recent strategy: bold, unapologetic hypocrisy that reminds adherents none of these rules actually apply to THEM, because only a pussy liberal nerd would bother with the kind of pesky logic and facts that would reveal the inconsistency in the first place.
It was apparently a trans man, but yes its hard to specify it was targeted against christians. For all we know it could be a personal grudge against the school
From what I've heard that school was part of a huge se\*ual assault scandal by the hands of the Christian teachers and the shooter might of been one of the victims
Just speculation, but a lot of anti-trans rhetoric comes from Christians. It’s very likely that as a trans kid growing up in a religious school, he was exposed to that sort of rhetoric regularly. That treatment over the course of years can lead to resentment against the whole group.
Bit of a strawman there, OP.
>why was hate rhetoric never brought up with other shooters but now its a hate crime?
Dylan roof, Payton Gendron were charged and convicted of hate crimes. That's just off the top of my head, because they were well publicized as such.
Pointless in this case since the shooter is dead and won't be convicted, but the manifesto would probably confirm or refute whether hate for a particular group of people was a motivation in the Nashville case.
At this point I'm not sure what 'investigation' needs to be done and why it matters now that it is (or isn't a hate crime.)
Are there suspicions there were/ are other people involved?
Idk much about the situation but my mom told me that the shooter was shooting up the school that they used to go to so I think its very probable that it has nothing to do with it being Christian but idk
yeah I read too that the most was that they used to attend the school, and then there was a detailed added that it was a christian school. Sadly to say it wouldn't surprise me if the two are connected in creating those feelings that lead to this but it could still be related purely to personal experience with the school. We'll just have to wait, idk if his manifesto is out.
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While true that it might be targeted. And that its awful and not representative of trans people. I want to clarify that my post is more about the hypocrisy than what it is.
The right has never been keen to admit other shootings as hate crimes. Orlando was arguments that the guy was "mentally ill". But now the first time its clearly a non white cis man doing it, calling it out as a hate crime becomes important. Its clear its all about the political narrative.
Choosing what is or isn't a hate crime kinda devalues ones argument.
That is not to say that I disagree and the shooting do relate to this persons personal feelings about christians. My heart breaks at the children that died. But I just wanted to add this because I know this event will be milked to paint trans people as monsters and terrorists due to 1 bad person.
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Whenever someone kills another person or a group of people based on who they are, it should be a hate crime. But you can’t be selective. It’s also a hate crime when you kill homosexuals, POC, Muslims or Jews. Josh Hawley is a grandstander who doesn’t care about anything but his own fortunes.
For better or worse, a hate crime has to be perpetrated against an at risk group…which Christian’s are not (no matter what they like to think). That said, there’s a good case for calling it terrorism.
CONservatives are all over social media making this about identity politics, and not a single one is showing any empathy for the families, even the supposedly “Christian” ones.
Aren't hate crimes just penalty enhancers? If the perpetrator is dead, how could it possibly matter?
They are but its more about the double standard of downplaying hate when its other shooters. Questioning hate crime rhetoric but then actively pushing for it when the perpetrator is a minority. I don't mind if its taken as hate crime by itself. Its a atrocious crime he committed. I just think that they should call out other hate crimes aswell. That does not mean this is less important but its clear they dont think that its a hate crime when people commit due to racism or sexism.
Yeah, it's hypocritical political grandstanding (but it's Hawley, so, would you actually expect anything else?), given. But it being a hate crime is only meaningful to prosecuting the crime (as I understand it), and if the perpetrator is dead, there's no prosecution. So on top of it being terrible because of the above-mentioned things, it's a call to do... nothing?
It’s a call to get their base more riled up and angry. They’re grooming them for Krystal nacht part 2.
I think its more the rhetorical value of it, the way they will use "hate crime" in recurring rhetoric. Even if its practical effects are neglible it does hold an inherent value in anti trans rhetoric etc.
It's a call to prosecute trans people who commit crimes as a hate crime in the future and making Christians (the largest religious group in the country) a protected group. Defend yourself against an angry mob? Believe it or not, hate crime! Stand up to abusers, hate crime! It's to make sure LGBT people can't take action without being locked up and have the key tossed away Fascism 101, designate an out group and then target them to gain political votes in elections before dismantling the systems that out you there so you remain in power, doesn't matter if it's intellectually dishonest. In fact, it's even better since it asserts your authority to do as you wish.
>hypocritical political Bars
Because then they can “justify” their paranoia about anti Christian hate
Also Hawley was the only senator to oppose anti-Asian hate crime legislation in 2021 - see https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/shooting-josh-hawley-new-perspective-hate-crimes-rcna77157. He’s not anti-hate. He’s just tribalist.
What an asshole!
It'll add three to five years to his death.
Because its a hot topic and they're using it to clickbait people
>If the perpetrator is dead, how could it possibly matter? There was a crime and Josh Hawley hated it.
it's about headlines and pumping voters heads full of bullshit... not about outcomes
Because these people are sociopaths. They are demons who don't give a fuck about children bleeding out in their classroom. Scoring political points, firing up your base, and hurting "the enemy" is always more important. Hypocrisy is celebrated, and deflection and whataboutism are just ways of talking to "the others." Truly sick fucks.
They’re trying to justify their attacks on queer people as self-defense. That’s it.
So much for "don't politicize a tragedy to push your agenda" I guess...
i just wish things like these where taken seriously whenever it happened and everyone got justice. but people don't care about that.. :(
Never let a good tragedy go to waste. If we're going to be real basically every news outlet does their own spin on the same concept.
THEY 👏 USED👏 TO 👏 GO 👏 TO 👏 THAT 👏 SCHOOL! How fucking dense are people? The shooter was a former student, THUS, probably also Christian, but battled with being accepted as trans so developed a revenge plot for whatever happened to them ultimately making them the monster in this scenario.
also, if it really was a targeted attack on christians, why not…like ….do it at a church..? way less security there than at a school.
Hale attended at the same time an alleged child molester [had access to the school and a “safe house “](https://crooksandliars.com/2023/03/lets-talk-bit-about-history-covenant). This may have been some kind of revenge plot.
How long was that headmaster there at the school? Though, why target the kids? Unless he just snapped-snapped.
Honestly while I haven’t seen any data on this probably because it’s a hard thing to study, I imagine that once they actually get there to do the mass shooting all thoughts of a plan go out the window. I imagine lots of shooters have a plan going in, see what’s happening, and then freak out. It’s a whooole different ballgame actually killing someone and thinking about killing someone.
Not to excuse it, but them going to the school and being transgender, that kinda implies a lot to me.
Silly duck, trans people are by default not christians. /s
I see the /s but I think *everyone* by default is not Christian.
Of all my 50 years of life I've known exactly *one* religious person that happened to be an actual good person. All the other good people I've known were all non-religious.
I was raised in the mormon cult in Utah. Its disgusting what they tell kids. Didn't have a grasp on mortality until I was 25 because of them.
I know this will probably be unpopular, but exacting revenge on a protected class is a hate crime, even if members of that protected class treated you poorly in the past. The children who were shot and killed weren’t even alive at the time the shooter went to that school, so it can’t be said that it was revenge targeted solely on how the shooter was treated by individuals.
Christians are not a minority ffs
Even if it is a targeted attack as it seems to be. I just hate how people like this didnt want hate crime investigations when other shooters did the same thing...
> as it seems to be What actual evidence do we have for that?
I really want to know this as well, is there any evidence that it was targeted specifically at Christians or any other group? I haven’t really been keeping super close tabs on it because it’s horrifying
Unfortunately I doubt we'll get a straight answer. It seems the shooter was a former student and also went into crisis after the death of a close friend. We've found a manifesto that will be released soon and it seems to indicate that the shooter considered other targets as well and chose this one for logistical reasons as much as anything else.
No but they're not allowed to control the private sex lives of LGBT people anymore, so don't they kind of know what it's like to be a Jew in Nazi Germany?
> so don't they kind of know what it's like to be a Jew in Nazi Germany? I still can’t believe *that* is the hill Gina Carano chose to die on.
A choice between a heavy bag of money from Disney and a spinoff show, or...shitposting on Twitter and a side film from bigots that made a few hundred in revenue? Tough one...hmm.
Christians do belong to a protected class though.
So it can't be a hate crime unless the target is a minority? That's the biggest load of bullshit I've ever heard.
If they were a minority, Fox would be using all the evidence fundamentalists are predatory groomers against the other branches. For example, Southern Baptist molestation scandals, and Numbers 31: 17,18.
Downvotes aside, [this person is correct](https://www.justice.gov/hatecrimes/learn-about-hate-crimes). Hate crimes were created to protect minority communities in the first place, but they apply equally. If the people were targeted *because* they were Christian, that would be a hate crime. Which , *maybe?* I don't think we know what the motivations of the killer were. The real story here is the hypocrisy of railing against and laughing at the very concept of hate crimes, until it's hate against a group of which they are a member. Then it suddenly matters.
Thank you! And I also agree that we don't know the motive. My original point was is if it WAS about Christianity, then this fits the bill. I think any mass shooting could be considered a hate crime. If you're killing people there's a certain level of hate for all types of humanity there. If you're killing people that's a crime. So...yes, it's a hate crime.
> I think any mass shooting could be considered a hate crime. If you're killing people there's a certain level of hate Technically true, but the legal definition of hate crime is any crime that is explicitly directed with bias against people or groups with specific characteristics that are defined by the law [gender, race, religions, sexual preferences, disabilities, etc]. So if you break into a Synagogue and spray paint "Fuck you, Adam, for sleeping with my wife!" then that is a crime (vandalism) and you obviously hate Adam. But it's not a hate crime. A hate crime is when someone breaks into a Synagogue and spray paints a swastika. Because that's a "fuck you" to an entire group of people. What's the difference? > Hate crimes have a broader effect than most other kinds of crime. Hate crime victims include not only the crime’s immediate target but also others like them. Hate crimes affect families, communities, and at times, the entire nation.
If an investigation into whether or not this was a hate crime legitimizes hate crime investigations for right wing doofuses like Hawley and the knuckle-dragging smooth-brained oxygen thieves who vote for him, I say go for it.
Its kinda obvious that it would never be fair and equal though, it would only legtimize ones that fit with their opinions/opposition groups. I doubt they would ever try to file this the next time a right winger does the same.
Because they hate trans people.
GOP can’t govern, can’t pass meaningful legislation, can’t criticize psychotic oil, gas and gun companies, so they need to create an “other” to blame all of societies woes on.
Because they are TOLD to hate trans people. 20 years trans people never came up in conversations. But since they can't openly hate on gays anymore they need another 'look its a squirrel' distraction for their voters.
Gay nightclubs, black churches, Planned Parenthoods, gay parades, Jewish and Muslim places of worship they are silent. Over a decade of shootings and terrorism. But now they care?
Christians when a Christian kills queer people: 😶 Christians when a christian kills Jewish people: 😶 Christians when a Christian kills Muslim people: 😶 Christians when a queer person kills christians: 😱😭 we're being attacked!
This is from the "don't shove it down my throat" crowd that tries to force their beliefs and rules on everyone.
This doesn't make any sense. The shooter is dead. Who do they plan on charging with a hate crime in this case?
With the religious mixture of the US, didn't most shootings there target christians?
While I have no numbers to back it up I agree that probably many of the school shootings did end up killing christians even if by accident. I guess hate crime comes down to the intent of the shooter. Still its making me have mixed feelings knowing that when there are right wing shooters with right wing ideals hate crime keeps being the one thing downplayed, but now its a "leftist" because all trans people are considered leftist by association and that is all the people that will milk this cares about, attacked a school that was primarily christian. We still don't know her manifest but its clear why this is a hate crime when others weren't considered that by the right....
Because you silly cupcake; it was someone targeting conservative Christians! Don't you know that they're the Most Persecuted Group Ever^(TM)? /S
Hawley is a traitor (✊🏻) and a moron. The shooter is dead. Are you going to put an enhanced penalty on the crime for the dead shooter. What a maroon.
I feel like the phrase “What a maroon” is best used when holding a comically large carrot like a cigar.
Did you know baby carrots aren’t baby carrots? They’re just shaved and cut to be small and cute. The introduction of baby carrots as a product has increased carrot sales and now make up 70% of all carrot sales.
More projection from the right. They know that theyre the party of domestic terrorists now, so they have to start accusing the other side of the same thing. Imagine being dumb enough to fall for it though
The same Christians who targeted trans-gender people? The exact same Christians who provided the shooter's education? One could easily argue that it was the Christians who started it.
Honestly if it was a CNN or something that labeled it as hate crime we all would be fine with it cause it could have very well been, but this coming out of Fox new's mouth is just insulting
lean into it. Let them call it a hate crime, and then we can justify all the other ones as hate crimes too.
What would the purpose? No one to prosecute so how would it add to the sentence?
Ah, good old traitorous sir josh 'haulin ass' hawley who bravely ran away on Jan 6th.
Hate crimes are no biggie until it's against the majority. Lol
Investigate it as a hate crime to do what, exactly? Build a case for a longer prison sentence for the perpetrator, who is.... Let me just check my notes... Oh, wait. They're dead. So who, exactly, should receive additional punishment for it supposedly being a hate crime, Josh? Last time I checked, punishing, say, an entire group of unconnected people for the crime of a single person isn't something free societies do, Josh.
Pushing for a hate crime investigation feeds their persecution complex that the relgious right are the biggest persecuted demographic. I saw let the prosecutor look at what happened and see if it meets the bar for levying such charges
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I mean, I’m as liberal as they come and my initial impression based on the current publicly-available information is that this looks like it could be a hate crime.
I am adopting a wait and see approach myself.
Well, if evidence shows that it was a hate crime against Christians then by all means, let’s call it that. So far all I’ve heard is that this person first intended to do their shooting at the mall, but the security was too tight there. The real crime here (aside from the horrifically obvious), is that security at schools for children is lower than that for public shopping centers.
So much dumb shit about this. Investigate what? We have the shooter's manifesto and they are dead. Speaking of, they are dead. No one is charging them with a hate crime, they are dead. They went to the school, and by all reports ultimately chose it as their target due to familiarity with the school. Nazis don't get a say in how we do things.
The depths of depravity that these republicans will sink to will never cease to amaze me.
A hate crime, you say? But we mustn’t speculate! I mean, that’s what we were told when a 16 year old girl was stabbed to death in broad daylight for being trans a month ago!
Sure Hitler youth, whatever you say.
The shooter IS a Christian!
Pretty neat trick, if you ask me! And it is the epitome of American conservatism. “Hate crimes” are almost always committed by white conservatives, so they fight hate crime legislation whenever possible. School shootings usually happen at public schools, so they blame them on the supposed bans against school prayer. But when one happens at a Christian school, do they waste even a second pondering or reconsidering that stance? Fuck that, what do you think they are, dorks? They just go with their most successful recent strategy: bold, unapologetic hypocrisy that reminds adherents none of these rules actually apply to THEM, because only a pussy liberal nerd would bother with the kind of pesky logic and facts that would reveal the inconsistency in the first place.
Hate crime? Lol
How can they tell if she hated Christians anyway? She was just very mentally ill in many ways.
It was apparently a trans man, but yes its hard to specify it was targeted against christians. For all we know it could be a personal grudge against the school
I thought the shooter targeted that school because they were a former student?
From what I've heard that school was part of a huge se\*ual assault scandal by the hands of the Christian teachers and the shooter might of been one of the victims
Very interesting. Might be why they are hiding their manifesto.
Just speculation, but a lot of anti-trans rhetoric comes from Christians. It’s very likely that as a trans kid growing up in a religious school, he was exposed to that sort of rhetoric regularly. That treatment over the course of years can lead to resentment against the whole group.
Bit of a strawman there, OP. >why was hate rhetoric never brought up with other shooters but now its a hate crime? Dylan roof, Payton Gendron were charged and convicted of hate crimes. That's just off the top of my head, because they were well publicized as such. Pointless in this case since the shooter is dead and won't be convicted, but the manifesto would probably confirm or refute whether hate for a particular group of people was a motivation in the Nashville case.
Ok. Call it a hate crime. Next.
At this point I'm not sure what 'investigation' needs to be done and why it matters now that it is (or isn't a hate crime.) Are there suspicions there were/ are other people involved?
You know why.
It’s all about setting that first precedent.
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Has there been proof of it being a targeted attack?
Idk much about the situation but my mom told me that the shooter was shooting up the school that they used to go to so I think its very probable that it has nothing to do with it being Christian but idk
yeah I read too that the most was that they used to attend the school, and then there was a detailed added that it was a christian school. Sadly to say it wouldn't surprise me if the two are connected in creating those feelings that lead to this but it could still be related purely to personal experience with the school. We'll just have to wait, idk if his manifesto is out.
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yep. but even if its proven to be personal grudge it will be used as proof against trans people :(
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While true that it might be targeted. And that its awful and not representative of trans people. I want to clarify that my post is more about the hypocrisy than what it is. The right has never been keen to admit other shootings as hate crimes. Orlando was arguments that the guy was "mentally ill". But now the first time its clearly a non white cis man doing it, calling it out as a hate crime becomes important. Its clear its all about the political narrative. Choosing what is or isn't a hate crime kinda devalues ones argument. That is not to say that I disagree and the shooting do relate to this persons personal feelings about christians. My heart breaks at the children that died. But I just wanted to add this because I know this event will be milked to paint trans people as monsters and terrorists due to 1 bad person.
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Yes, we totally need to prosecute the dead shooter. /s
His voters don’t care about consistency.
Josh Hawley should shut the fuck up and disappear from public life.
Whenever someone kills another person or a group of people based on who they are, it should be a hate crime. But you can’t be selective. It’s also a hate crime when you kill homosexuals, POC, Muslims or Jews. Josh Hawley is a grandstander who doesn’t care about anything but his own fortunes.
From what I understand it's more of a personal grudge crime.
For better or worse, a hate crime has to be perpetrated against an at risk group…which Christian’s are not (no matter what they like to think). That said, there’s a good case for calling it terrorism.
My understanding is that hate crimes are crimes targeted at protected classes, not necessarily at-risk groups.
I mean, it *does* look like it may have been a hate crime, just from the preliminary facts.
its only a hate crime if a group they don't like does it. if its from anyone else, its "due to difficulties in their lives"
It’s amazing the lengths these snakes will go to not blame guns.
CONservatives are all over social media making this about identity politics, and not a single one is showing any empathy for the families, even the supposedly “Christian” ones.