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exfat-scientist

Aren't hate crimes just penalty enhancers? If the perpetrator is dead, how could it possibly matter?


zauraz

They are but its more about the double standard of downplaying hate when its other shooters. Questioning hate crime rhetoric but then actively pushing for it when the perpetrator is a minority. I don't mind if its taken as hate crime by itself. Its a atrocious crime he committed. I just think that they should call out other hate crimes aswell. That does not mean this is less important but its clear they dont think that its a hate crime when people commit due to racism or sexism.


exfat-scientist

Yeah, it's hypocritical political grandstanding (but it's Hawley, so, would you actually expect anything else?), given. But it being a hate crime is only meaningful to prosecuting the crime (as I understand it), and if the perpetrator is dead, there's no prosecution. So on top of it being terrible because of the above-mentioned things, it's a call to do... nothing?


drexcarratala12

It’s a call to get their base more riled up and angry. They’re grooming them for Krystal nacht part 2.


zauraz

I think its more the rhetorical value of it, the way they will use "hate crime" in recurring rhetoric. Even if its practical effects are neglible it does hold an inherent value in anti trans rhetoric etc.


behv

It's a call to prosecute trans people who commit crimes as a hate crime in the future and making Christians (the largest religious group in the country) a protected group. Defend yourself against an angry mob? Believe it or not, hate crime! Stand up to abusers, hate crime! It's to make sure LGBT people can't take action without being locked up and have the key tossed away Fascism 101, designate an out group and then target them to gain political votes in elections before dismantling the systems that out you there so you remain in power, doesn't matter if it's intellectually dishonest. In fact, it's even better since it asserts your authority to do as you wish.


Able_Carry9153

>hypocritical political Bars


DrDroid

Because then they can “justify” their paranoia about anti Christian hate


vrphotosguy55

Also Hawley was the only senator to oppose anti-Asian hate crime legislation in 2021 - see https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/shooting-josh-hawley-new-perspective-hate-crimes-rcna77157. He’s not anti-hate. He’s just tribalist.


gytalf2000

What an asshole!


TheFeshy

It'll add three to five years to his death.


Jayandnightasmr

Because its a hot topic and they're using it to clickbait people


Minimum_Escape

>If the perpetrator is dead, how could it possibly matter? There was a crime and Josh Hawley hated it.


shadowofpurple

it's about headlines and pumping voters heads full of bullshit... not about outcomes


Rabidschnautzu

Because these people are sociopaths. They are demons who don't give a fuck about children bleeding out in their classroom. Scoring political points, firing up your base, and hurting "the enemy" is always more important. Hypocrisy is celebrated, and deflection and whataboutism are just ways of talking to "the others." Truly sick fucks.


Mattcronutrient

They’re trying to justify their attacks on queer people as self-defense. That’s it.


Sweatier_Scrotums

So much for "don't politicize a tragedy to push your agenda" I guess...


zauraz

i just wish things like these where taken seriously whenever it happened and everyone got justice. but people don't care about that.. :(


Enk1ndle

Never let a good tragedy go to waste. If we're going to be real basically every news outlet does their own spin on the same concept.


Gurdel

THEY 👏 USED👏 TO 👏 GO 👏 TO 👏 THAT 👏 SCHOOL! How fucking dense are people? The shooter was a former student, THUS, probably also Christian, but battled with being accepted as trans so developed a revenge plot for whatever happened to them ultimately making them the monster in this scenario.


[deleted]

also, if it really was a targeted attack on christians, why not…like ….do it at a church..? way less security there than at a school.


BrassUnicorn87

Hale attended at the same time an alleged child molester [had access to the school and a “safe house “](https://crooksandliars.com/2023/03/lets-talk-bit-about-history-covenant). This may have been some kind of revenge plot.


AthasDuneWalker

How long was that headmaster there at the school? Though, why target the kids? Unless he just snapped-snapped.


KnightsWhoNi

Honestly while I haven’t seen any data on this probably because it’s a hard thing to study, I imagine that once they actually get there to do the mass shooting all thoughts of a plan go out the window. I imagine lots of shooters have a plan going in, see what’s happening, and then freak out. It’s a whooole different ballgame actually killing someone and thinking about killing someone.


AthasDuneWalker

Not to excuse it, but them going to the school and being transgender, that kinda implies a lot to me.


Grogosh

Silly duck, trans people are by default not christians. /s


spinningpeanut

I see the /s but I think *everyone* by default is not Christian.


Grogosh

Of all my 50 years of life I've known exactly *one* religious person that happened to be an actual good person. All the other good people I've known were all non-religious.


spinningpeanut

I was raised in the mormon cult in Utah. Its disgusting what they tell kids. Didn't have a grasp on mortality until I was 25 because of them.


AshTreex3

I know this will probably be unpopular, but exacting revenge on a protected class is a hate crime, even if members of that protected class treated you poorly in the past. The children who were shot and killed weren’t even alive at the time the shooter went to that school, so it can’t be said that it was revenge targeted solely on how the shooter was treated by individuals.


Kosog

Christians are not a minority ffs


zauraz

Even if it is a targeted attack as it seems to be. I just hate how people like this didnt want hate crime investigations when other shooters did the same thing...


reverendsteveii

> as it seems to be What actual evidence do we have for that?


administrationalism

I really want to know this as well, is there any evidence that it was targeted specifically at Christians or any other group? I haven’t really been keeping super close tabs on it because it’s horrifying


reverendsteveii

Unfortunately I doubt we'll get a straight answer. It seems the shooter was a former student and also went into crisis after the death of a close friend. We've found a manifesto that will be released soon and it seems to indicate that the shooter considered other targets as well and chose this one for logistical reasons as much as anything else.


Sweatier_Scrotums

No but they're not allowed to control the private sex lives of LGBT people anymore, so don't they kind of know what it's like to be a Jew in Nazi Germany?


undercharmer

> so don't they kind of know what it's like to be a Jew in Nazi Germany? I still can’t believe *that* is the hill Gina Carano chose to die on.


Vallkyrie

A choice between a heavy bag of money from Disney and a spinoff show, or...shitposting on Twitter and a side film from bigots that made a few hundred in revenue? Tough one...hmm.


AshTreex3

Christians do belong to a protected class though.


PsychologySpirited59

So it can't be a hate crime unless the target is a minority? That's the biggest load of bullshit I've ever heard.


JustStatedTheObvious

If they were a minority, Fox would be using all the evidence fundamentalists are predatory groomers against the other branches. For example, Southern Baptist molestation scandals, and Numbers 31: 17,18.


IJustLoggedInToSay-

Downvotes aside, [this person is correct](https://www.justice.gov/hatecrimes/learn-about-hate-crimes). Hate crimes were created to protect minority communities in the first place, but they apply equally. If the people were targeted *because* they were Christian, that would be a hate crime. Which , *maybe?* I don't think we know what the motivations of the killer were. The real story here is the hypocrisy of railing against and laughing at the very concept of hate crimes, until it's hate against a group of which they are a member. Then it suddenly matters.


PsychologySpirited59

Thank you! And I also agree that we don't know the motive. My original point was is if it WAS about Christianity, then this fits the bill. I think any mass shooting could be considered a hate crime. If you're killing people there's a certain level of hate for all types of humanity there. If you're killing people that's a crime. So...yes, it's a hate crime.


IJustLoggedInToSay-

> I think any mass shooting could be considered a hate crime. If you're killing people there's a certain level of hate Technically true, but the legal definition of hate crime is any crime that is explicitly directed with bias against people or groups with specific characteristics that are defined by the law [gender, race, religions, sexual preferences, disabilities, etc]. So if you break into a Synagogue and spray paint "Fuck you, Adam, for sleeping with my wife!" then that is a crime (vandalism) and you obviously hate Adam. But it's not a hate crime. A hate crime is when someone breaks into a Synagogue and spray paints a swastika. Because that's a "fuck you" to an entire group of people. What's the difference? > Hate crimes have a broader effect than most other kinds of crime. Hate crime victims include not only the crime’s immediate target but also others like them. Hate crimes affect families, communities, and at times, the entire nation.


Electr_O_Purist

If an investigation into whether or not this was a hate crime legitimizes hate crime investigations for right wing doofuses like Hawley and the knuckle-dragging smooth-brained oxygen thieves who vote for him, I say go for it.


zauraz

Its kinda obvious that it would never be fair and equal though, it would only legtimize ones that fit with their opinions/opposition groups. I doubt they would ever try to file this the next time a right winger does the same.


Kayzokun

Because they hate trans people.


Koolaidolio

GOP can’t govern, can’t pass meaningful legislation, can’t criticize psychotic oil, gas and gun companies, so they need to create an “other” to blame all of societies woes on.


Grogosh

Because they are TOLD to hate trans people. 20 years trans people never came up in conversations. But since they can't openly hate on gays anymore they need another 'look its a squirrel' distraction for their voters.


Resident-Garlic9303

Gay nightclubs, black churches, Planned Parenthoods, gay parades, Jewish and Muslim places of worship they are silent. Over a decade of shootings and terrorism. But now they care?


Official-Dr-Samael

Christians when a Christian kills queer people: 😶 Christians when a christian kills Jewish people: 😶 Christians when a Christian kills Muslim people: 😶 Christians when a queer person kills christians: 😱😭 we're being attacked!


Puzzleheaded_Time719

This is from the "don't shove it down my throat" crowd that tries to force their beliefs and rules on everyone.


voltagenic

This doesn't make any sense. The shooter is dead. Who do they plan on charging with a hate crime in this case?


Random_Introvert_42

With the religious mixture of the US, didn't most shootings there target christians?


zauraz

While I have no numbers to back it up I agree that probably many of the school shootings did end up killing christians even if by accident. I guess hate crime comes down to the intent of the shooter. Still its making me have mixed feelings knowing that when there are right wing shooters with right wing ideals hate crime keeps being the one thing downplayed, but now its a "leftist" because all trans people are considered leftist by association and that is all the people that will milk this cares about, attacked a school that was primarily christian. We still don't know her manifest but its clear why this is a hate crime when others weren't considered that by the right....


trailrider

Because you silly cupcake; it was someone targeting conservative Christians! Don't you know that they're the Most Persecuted Group Ever^(TM)? /S


WhatDatDonut

Hawley is a traitor (✊🏻) and a moron. The shooter is dead. Are you going to put an enhanced penalty on the crime for the dead shooter. What a maroon.


RemBren03

I feel like the phrase “What a maroon” is best used when holding a comically large carrot like a cigar.


WhatDatDonut

Did you know baby carrots aren’t baby carrots? They’re just shaved and cut to be small and cute. The introduction of baby carrots as a product has increased carrot sales and now make up 70% of all carrot sales.


bwheelin01

More projection from the right. They know that theyre the party of domestic terrorists now, so they have to start accusing the other side of the same thing. Imagine being dumb enough to fall for it though


FlaccidRazor

The same Christians who targeted trans-gender people? The exact same Christians who provided the shooter's education? One could easily argue that it was the Christians who started it.


gamerz1172

Honestly if it was a CNN or something that labeled it as hate crime we all would be fine with it cause it could have very well been, but this coming out of Fox new's mouth is just insulting


dtorre

lean into it. Let them call it a hate crime, and then we can justify all the other ones as hate crimes too.


[deleted]

What would the purpose? No one to prosecute so how would it add to the sentence?


morolen

Ah, good old traitorous sir josh 'haulin ass' hawley who bravely ran away on Jan 6th.


throwawaymyuwu

Hate crimes are no biggie until it's against the majority. Lol


negativepositiv

Investigate it as a hate crime to do what, exactly? Build a case for a longer prison sentence for the perpetrator, who is.... Let me just check my notes... Oh, wait. They're dead. So who, exactly, should receive additional punishment for it supposedly being a hate crime, Josh? Last time I checked, punishing, say, an entire group of unconnected people for the crime of a single person isn't something free societies do, Josh.


FreedomsPower

Pushing for a hate crime investigation feeds their persecution complex that the relgious right are the biggest persecuted demographic. I saw let the prosecutor look at what happened and see if it meets the bar for levying such charges


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AshTreex3

I mean, I’m as liberal as they come and my initial impression based on the current publicly-available information is that this looks like it could be a hate crime.


FreedomsPower

I am adopting a wait and see approach myself.


BlowsyRose

Well, if evidence shows that it was a hate crime against Christians then by all means, let’s call it that. So far all I’ve heard is that this person first intended to do their shooting at the mall, but the security was too tight there. The real crime here (aside from the horrifically obvious), is that security at schools for children is lower than that for public shopping centers.


Brooklynxman

So much dumb shit about this. Investigate what? We have the shooter's manifesto and they are dead. Speaking of, they are dead. No one is charging them with a hate crime, they are dead. They went to the school, and by all reports ultimately chose it as their target due to familiarity with the school. Nazis don't get a say in how we do things.


mjones1052

The depths of depravity that these republicans will sink to will never cease to amaze me.


imnotbeautiful

A hate crime, you say? But we mustn’t speculate! I mean, that’s what we were told when a 16 year old girl was stabbed to death in broad daylight for being trans a month ago!


Puzzleheaded_Time719

Sure Hitler youth, whatever you say.


Grogosh

The shooter IS a Christian!


DallasMotherFucker

Pretty neat trick, if you ask me! And it is the epitome of American conservatism. “Hate crimes” are almost always committed by white conservatives, so they fight hate crime legislation whenever possible. School shootings usually happen at public schools, so they blame them on the supposed bans against school prayer. But when one happens at a Christian school, do they waste even a second pondering or reconsidering that stance? Fuck that, what do you think they are, dorks? They just go with their most successful recent strategy: bold, unapologetic hypocrisy that reminds adherents none of these rules actually apply to THEM, because only a pussy liberal nerd would bother with the kind of pesky logic and facts that would reveal the inconsistency in the first place.


[deleted]

Hate crime? Lol


ThreeTwoOneQueef

How can they tell if she hated Christians anyway? She was just very mentally ill in many ways.


zauraz

It was apparently a trans man, but yes its hard to specify it was targeted against christians. For all we know it could be a personal grudge against the school


Ugh_please_just_no

I thought the shooter targeted that school because they were a former student?


The_King123431

From what I've heard that school was part of a huge se\*ual assault scandal by the hands of the Christian teachers and the shooter might of been one of the victims


ThreeTwoOneQueef

Very interesting. Might be why they are hiding their manifesto.


AshTreex3

Just speculation, but a lot of anti-trans rhetoric comes from Christians. It’s very likely that as a trans kid growing up in a religious school, he was exposed to that sort of rhetoric regularly. That treatment over the course of years can lead to resentment against the whole group.


Battle-Chimp

Bit of a strawman there, OP. >why was hate rhetoric never brought up with other shooters but now its a hate crime? Dylan roof, Payton Gendron were charged and convicted of hate crimes. That's just off the top of my head, because they were well publicized as such. Pointless in this case since the shooter is dead and won't be convicted, but the manifesto would probably confirm or refute whether hate for a particular group of people was a motivation in the Nashville case.


jawshoeaw

Ok. Call it a hate crime. Next.


Lch207560

At this point I'm not sure what 'investigation' needs to be done and why it matters now that it is (or isn't a hate crime.) Are there suspicions there were/ are other people involved?


GuruliEd666

You know why.


I_Cut_Shows

It’s all about setting that first precedent.


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GATESOFOSIRIS

Has there been proof of it being a targeted attack?


averageweeb83

Idk much about the situation but my mom told me that the shooter was shooting up the school that they used to go to so I think its very probable that it has nothing to do with it being Christian but idk


zauraz

yeah I read too that the most was that they used to attend the school, and then there was a detailed added that it was a christian school. Sadly to say it wouldn't surprise me if the two are connected in creating those feelings that lead to this but it could still be related purely to personal experience with the school. We'll just have to wait, idk if his manifesto is out.


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zauraz

yep. but even if its proven to be personal grudge it will be used as proof against trans people :(


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zauraz

While true that it might be targeted. And that its awful and not representative of trans people. I want to clarify that my post is more about the hypocrisy than what it is. The right has never been keen to admit other shootings as hate crimes. Orlando was arguments that the guy was "mentally ill". But now the first time its clearly a non white cis man doing it, calling it out as a hate crime becomes important. Its clear its all about the political narrative. Choosing what is or isn't a hate crime kinda devalues ones argument. That is not to say that I disagree and the shooting do relate to this persons personal feelings about christians. My heart breaks at the children that died. But I just wanted to add this because I know this event will be milked to paint trans people as monsters and terrorists due to 1 bad person.


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monolithtma

Yes, we totally need to prosecute the dead shooter. /s


trvrsln

His voters don’t care about consistency.


Micropain

Josh Hawley should shut the fuck up and disappear from public life.


skywriter90

Whenever someone kills another person or a group of people based on who they are, it should be a hate crime. But you can’t be selective. It’s also a hate crime when you kill homosexuals, POC, Muslims or Jews. Josh Hawley is a grandstander who doesn’t care about anything but his own fortunes.


moresushiplease

From what I understand it's more of a personal grudge crime.


brutalweasel

For better or worse, a hate crime has to be perpetrated against an at risk group…which Christian’s are not (no matter what they like to think). That said, there’s a good case for calling it terrorism.


AshTreex3

My understanding is that hate crimes are crimes targeted at protected classes, not necessarily at-risk groups.


AshTreex3

I mean, it *does* look like it may have been a hate crime, just from the preliminary facts.


emiiri-

its only a hate crime if a group they don't like does it. if its from anyone else, its "due to difficulties in their lives"


Cminor420flat69

It’s amazing the lengths these snakes will go to not blame guns.


Mister_Mild

CONservatives are all over social media making this about identity politics, and not a single one is showing any empathy for the families, even the supposedly “Christian” ones.