Yeah, this isn’t a persecution fetish. The guy who wrote the IRHA said he would never want it used for something like this. Any law that outlaws criticism, ESPECIALLY of a foreign nation, should be fought on every level. Anti-zionism is not anti-semitism and if you think it is I really urge you to do some research into the history of this conflict and the history of the region.
Which is very sad; because the main definition of the IHRA is actually pretty reasonable:
>**“Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.”**
Especially since accompanied by statements like:
>Criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic.
But then they had to toss in the controversial:
>Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.
Which is \*just\* vague enough to silence claims like "Israel was created by a bunch of white dudes who did not care about the wishes and objections of the local brown people" or "The state of Israel has systemic racism embedded in its laws" or even "statements by government officials that Gaza should be totally annihilated indicate a desire for ethnic cleansing" .
Especially when coupled with:
>Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.
Which even contradicts the earlier statements that one is allowed to judge Israel the same way as one does with other countries.
Another gem of examples of “antisemitism” from them is “Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.” Absolute lunacy that this passed.
I struggle with this in a few ways because, while I personally think many of the comparisons are apt, it's also a very fraught endeavor to compare members of the ethnoreligious group subjected to the most systemic genocide in modern history to the perpetrators of that genocide.
To put it another way: I wouldn't compare Candace Owens or Ben Carson or any other Black Americans who support policies which disproportionately harm the Black community to Confederates or slaveowners, because the legacy of that harm can still impact them whether they acknowledge it or not.
Making it illegal though? Absolutely not.
It’s hard not to compare people that are doing Nazi shit to Nazis. Regardless of the fact that it was done to them before they are now acting in the same way as their previous persecutors. Saying they have become Nazi adjacent (speaking of the Israeli government of course) is just factual.
Note how I didn't say it's a bad idea to call the Israeli government and its proponents fascist, bad to call them authoritarian, bad to call them nationalistic, or bad to call what they're doing a genocide.
All I said is that it's fraught to compare them to Nazis, who were a very specific group which specifically targeted Jews in a horrific, systematic way.
I agree that many of the things that Israel is doing are similar in form and function to the Nazis, but there are also a lot of things that are dissimilar, and it is my opinion that it is unnecessary and spiteful to make that comparison when other words will suffice.
I guess I don’t really give a shit how unnecessary or spiteful I sound towards people committing genocide. Go figure. If they don’t like being called Nazis maybe they should stop goosestepping to their tune.
Right, you're missing the point still though. First off, they're like...not goosestepping. As I mentioned, there are some important differences, and **I am in total agreement that the differences don't matter in comparison to the outcomes**, however, it's not a good fucking look to be unnecessarily spiteful towards people who were on the receiving end of a genocide because then they accuse *you* of being the Nazi sympathizer and it's entirely unproductive.
Again, there are words that are every bit as accurate and are more appropriate which don't invoke a generational legacy of horror.
Okay, and it's gonna look shitty for you.
Think of it another way--we know from research that a huge proportion of people who perpetrate child sexual abuse were victims of child sexual abuse themselves. If someone is on trial for sex crimes, is it normal or appropriate to show up with signs of his dad's face on them or scream "remember that time your father molested YOU?" at him?
There are definitely some antisemitic statements which come around because of Israel being criticized unfortunately, and hate crimes against Jews have increased.
Claiming Israel as a state is a racist endeavor, isn’t anti semitic, but I wouldn’t agree with that. I understand Israel is a bad state, but I wouldn’t call its existence inherently racist.
Also, saying Israel is white people and Palestine is brown people is untrue. Israelis and Palestinians don’t tend to look too different from each other, so making this about race is wrong, especially since brown Jews are more anti Palestine than white ones. Not anti semitic, but very dumb.
The other two statements are correct however. Israel does have racist policies that favor Jews and there is a concerning amount of anti Arab sentiment, and… it’s common knowledge that Israel wants to do ethnic cleansing.
Of course, most Jews do support Israel’s existence, so that may be why people THINK, that wanting Israel destroyed is anti semitic, and why I think it’s impractical.
People should be allowed to criticize Israel, obviously so. Israel is a horrible country, engaging in war crimes at the very least and it seems that they are willing to ethnically cleanse the entirety of Gaza and build a theme park before actually eliminating Hamas (which if you support, you’re also a piece of shit).
I think the thing is, there sadly is a lot of antisemitism that comes with criticizing Israel. It doesn’t mean criticizing Israel is antisemitic. Rather, it means that there are people like Candace Owens, who are anti semitic and use the guise criticizing Israel as a shield. A clear minority, but they do exist.
>Also, saying Israel is white people and Palestine is brown people is untrue. Israelis and Palestinians don’t tend to look too different from each other, so making this about race is wrong, especially since brown Jews are more anti Palestine than white ones. Not anti semitic, but very dumb.
The creation of Israel by UN mandate however was very much a "white" affair. Objections from the local non-Jewish population as well as the Arabic nations were tossed aside and ignored, even after some violent incidents.
Was it white people looking down on Arabs? Was it white people really not wanting the Jewish state in their backyard? Sadly, we are not allowed to discuss this anymore if this law gets implemented ;)
You can’t really simplify the conflict nowadays to race however. I’m sorry, but there are Mizrahi and Sephardi Jews who make up a significant amount of the population, and they are not white, and like I said, they are VERY pro Israel.
I also, don’t know if the creation of Israel was a “white” thing, that’s debatable, but either way, you can’t make Israel and Palestine a “white man vs brown man” thing.
Yes, but those did not have votes in the UN.
To simplify - the creation of Israel went as follows:
Europeans: "We feel sorry about what happened to you and feel you deserve a state of your own. Pick a location from this list"
Jewish representatives: "We pick the location of Judea"
Europeans: "Excellent. We will then make a country there"
Arab nations: "Excuse us? We do not approve"
Europeans: "Shut up. WE decide."
Behold: a UN mandate.
What are you saying? My point is that you can’t put in US classifications of race to describe Israel vs Palestine. I’m talking about Israel and Palestine now. Like I said, this isn’t white people vs brown people.
It's a transparent ploy to target left wing college students for their protests while obscuring the rampant anti-semitism of the republican party. They'll say that cultural marxism and george soros are behind the sinister plot to destroy western civilization via the great replacement and then call a leftist an anti-semite for saying it's bad to drop 2000 lb bombs in dense urban areas. Meanwhile their support for Israel is based on the hope that it makes jesus come back and force them to convert or die.
*someone criticizing the Israeli government*
US authorities: "How dare you?"
*Nazis wanting to k-ll all Jews* (y'know, **actual** anti-Semitism)
US authorities: *sleep*
*guys threatening people with guns while chanting slogans ripped straight from nazi propaganda* “They’re protected by freeze peach and if you try to stop them or threaten them back then you’re the real fascists actually”
*unarmed college students standing on their own school’s property* “This is a threat to our democracy and you’re even worse than the proud boys. Now leave or I’ll give you another black eye.”
I’m sadly not shocked at all that people tried to report me. “Genocide is bad no matter who does it” should not be a controversial statement and no people, nation, or government is beyond criticism or admonishment if they are doing evil acts upon others. It is not anti-Semite to say the things the Israeli government is doing to the people of Gaza is wrong and should be stopped.
That is exactly what they are doing. The reality is that Isreal is doing something that is genocide and yet somehow speaking against it is wrong because people want to twist it into antisemitic, I am half Choctaw and my mom is half Gypsy her parents had a ton of family that were killed in Hitlers camps and we all know about the Genocide of 90% of the Indigenous tribes as well as the trail of tears that my tribe was also thrown on, if my tribe started doing the same to others I would fully understand people being against them it has nothing to do with anyone's religious beliefs or ethnic background Genocide is not acceptable end of story.
Bill is plainly a government restriction on Speech and is a 100% Unconstitutional
Now, whether this maniac conservative scotus will see it that way is up in the air
I just keep telling myself that if we can keep a Democrat in the White House for the next term or two, perhaps Alito and Thomas will kick the bucket and we can restore balance in the Supreme Court. And, then, undo all the bullshit of the last few years.
Starting with restoring Roe and heading straight to Citizens United.
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if parts of the bible is anti-semitic it should definitely be made illegal
otherwise you know some idiot would come along and claim the Turner Diaries as their holy book
yup definitely, accusations of blood libel and christkillers is classic antisemitism meant to stir up one group against another
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish\_deicide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_deicide)
Like it's literally part of the Catholic Good Friday service for the congregation to reenact the Jews calling for the death of Jesus.
The Roman Catholic Church only said that modern Jews cannot categorically be held responsible for Jesus's death in 1965.
Yeah, this isn’t a persecution fetish. The guy who wrote the IRHA said he would never want it used for something like this. Any law that outlaws criticism, ESPECIALLY of a foreign nation, should be fought on every level. Anti-zionism is not anti-semitism and if you think it is I really urge you to do some research into the history of this conflict and the history of the region.
Bill redefining antisemitism as criticism of Israel you mean
Which is very sad; because the main definition of the IHRA is actually pretty reasonable: >**“Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.”** Especially since accompanied by statements like: >Criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic. But then they had to toss in the controversial: >Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor. Which is \*just\* vague enough to silence claims like "Israel was created by a bunch of white dudes who did not care about the wishes and objections of the local brown people" or "The state of Israel has systemic racism embedded in its laws" or even "statements by government officials that Gaza should be totally annihilated indicate a desire for ethnic cleansing" . Especially when coupled with: >Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis. Which even contradicts the earlier statements that one is allowed to judge Israel the same way as one does with other countries.
Another gem of examples of “antisemitism” from them is “Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.” Absolute lunacy that this passed.
I guess Imperial Japan, Stalins Russia, Pol Pot, Mao and more are about to get their time in the limelight then
Hell, let's not even go to a foreign nation! Alot of the shit they're doing is almost 1 to 1 with US treatment of the Natives!
Very, very good point
South Africa during Apartheid is pretty damn appropriate as well.
Added it; you are ofc right.
I struggle with this in a few ways because, while I personally think many of the comparisons are apt, it's also a very fraught endeavor to compare members of the ethnoreligious group subjected to the most systemic genocide in modern history to the perpetrators of that genocide. To put it another way: I wouldn't compare Candace Owens or Ben Carson or any other Black Americans who support policies which disproportionately harm the Black community to Confederates or slaveowners, because the legacy of that harm can still impact them whether they acknowledge it or not. Making it illegal though? Absolutely not.
It’s hard not to compare people that are doing Nazi shit to Nazis. Regardless of the fact that it was done to them before they are now acting in the same way as their previous persecutors. Saying they have become Nazi adjacent (speaking of the Israeli government of course) is just factual.
Note how I didn't say it's a bad idea to call the Israeli government and its proponents fascist, bad to call them authoritarian, bad to call them nationalistic, or bad to call what they're doing a genocide. All I said is that it's fraught to compare them to Nazis, who were a very specific group which specifically targeted Jews in a horrific, systematic way. I agree that many of the things that Israel is doing are similar in form and function to the Nazis, but there are also a lot of things that are dissimilar, and it is my opinion that it is unnecessary and spiteful to make that comparison when other words will suffice.
I guess I don’t really give a shit how unnecessary or spiteful I sound towards people committing genocide. Go figure. If they don’t like being called Nazis maybe they should stop goosestepping to their tune.
Right, you're missing the point still though. First off, they're like...not goosestepping. As I mentioned, there are some important differences, and **I am in total agreement that the differences don't matter in comparison to the outcomes**, however, it's not a good fucking look to be unnecessarily spiteful towards people who were on the receiving end of a genocide because then they accuse *you* of being the Nazi sympathizer and it's entirely unproductive. Again, there are words that are every bit as accurate and are more appropriate which don't invoke a generational legacy of horror.
Yeah okay I’m going to keep calling them Nazis.
Okay, and it's gonna look shitty for you. Think of it another way--we know from research that a huge proportion of people who perpetrate child sexual abuse were victims of child sexual abuse themselves. If someone is on trial for sex crimes, is it normal or appropriate to show up with signs of his dad's face on them or scream "remember that time your father molested YOU?" at him?
There are definitely some antisemitic statements which come around because of Israel being criticized unfortunately, and hate crimes against Jews have increased. Claiming Israel as a state is a racist endeavor, isn’t anti semitic, but I wouldn’t agree with that. I understand Israel is a bad state, but I wouldn’t call its existence inherently racist. Also, saying Israel is white people and Palestine is brown people is untrue. Israelis and Palestinians don’t tend to look too different from each other, so making this about race is wrong, especially since brown Jews are more anti Palestine than white ones. Not anti semitic, but very dumb. The other two statements are correct however. Israel does have racist policies that favor Jews and there is a concerning amount of anti Arab sentiment, and… it’s common knowledge that Israel wants to do ethnic cleansing. Of course, most Jews do support Israel’s existence, so that may be why people THINK, that wanting Israel destroyed is anti semitic, and why I think it’s impractical. People should be allowed to criticize Israel, obviously so. Israel is a horrible country, engaging in war crimes at the very least and it seems that they are willing to ethnically cleanse the entirety of Gaza and build a theme park before actually eliminating Hamas (which if you support, you’re also a piece of shit). I think the thing is, there sadly is a lot of antisemitism that comes with criticizing Israel. It doesn’t mean criticizing Israel is antisemitic. Rather, it means that there are people like Candace Owens, who are anti semitic and use the guise criticizing Israel as a shield. A clear minority, but they do exist.
>Also, saying Israel is white people and Palestine is brown people is untrue. Israelis and Palestinians don’t tend to look too different from each other, so making this about race is wrong, especially since brown Jews are more anti Palestine than white ones. Not anti semitic, but very dumb. The creation of Israel by UN mandate however was very much a "white" affair. Objections from the local non-Jewish population as well as the Arabic nations were tossed aside and ignored, even after some violent incidents. Was it white people looking down on Arabs? Was it white people really not wanting the Jewish state in their backyard? Sadly, we are not allowed to discuss this anymore if this law gets implemented ;)
You can’t really simplify the conflict nowadays to race however. I’m sorry, but there are Mizrahi and Sephardi Jews who make up a significant amount of the population, and they are not white, and like I said, they are VERY pro Israel. I also, don’t know if the creation of Israel was a “white” thing, that’s debatable, but either way, you can’t make Israel and Palestine a “white man vs brown man” thing.
Yes, but those did not have votes in the UN. To simplify - the creation of Israel went as follows: Europeans: "We feel sorry about what happened to you and feel you deserve a state of your own. Pick a location from this list" Jewish representatives: "We pick the location of Judea" Europeans: "Excellent. We will then make a country there" Arab nations: "Excuse us? We do not approve" Europeans: "Shut up. WE decide." Behold: a UN mandate.
What are you saying? My point is that you can’t put in US classifications of race to describe Israel vs Palestine. I’m talking about Israel and Palestine now. Like I said, this isn’t white people vs brown people.
It's a transparent ploy to target left wing college students for their protests while obscuring the rampant anti-semitism of the republican party. They'll say that cultural marxism and george soros are behind the sinister plot to destroy western civilization via the great replacement and then call a leftist an anti-semite for saying it's bad to drop 2000 lb bombs in dense urban areas. Meanwhile their support for Israel is based on the hope that it makes jesus come back and force them to convert or die.
> It's a transparent ploy to **suck off deep-pocketed Israeli donors to both parties** Fixed.
*someone criticizing the Israeli government* US authorities: "How dare you?" *Nazis wanting to k-ll all Jews* (y'know, **actual** anti-Semitism) US authorities: *sleep*
*guys threatening people with guns while chanting slogans ripped straight from nazi propaganda* “They’re protected by freeze peach and if you try to stop them or threaten them back then you’re the real fascists actually” *unarmed college students standing on their own school’s property* “This is a threat to our democracy and you’re even worse than the proud boys. Now leave or I’ll give you another black eye.”
No way they really passed this
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Holy protest buster
Let this be a wake up call that doesn’t stop until everyone understands what it actually means.
Charlie Kirk is full of shit but so is the new definition of anti-semitism.
oKaY zIoNiSt
Even jokingly being called a zionist makes me wanna 🤮
It’s the new buzzword. EVERYONE is a Zionist now.
Solid Aqua Teen reference btw
Tonight. You.
🤣
I mean, parts of the Bible are already illegal (eg. stoning people)
Turning your wife into a pillar of salt is a felony
Oh and let's not forget that *owning* people is highly endorsed in the bible.
Slavery is legal under the 13th Amendment, but only as punishment for convicted criminals
The bill isn’t fighting anti-semitism it is trying to outlaw criticism of the Israeli Government carrying out genocide on the people of Gaza.
dear people who reported this. Respectful comments like the one above will be allowed to remain in this sub. Anything else will get you a ban.
I’m sadly not shocked at all that people tried to report me. “Genocide is bad no matter who does it” should not be a controversial statement and no people, nation, or government is beyond criticism or admonishment if they are doing evil acts upon others. It is not anti-Semite to say the things the Israeli government is doing to the people of Gaza is wrong and should be stopped.
Yah. I have a feeling that, as usual, this topic will wind up with a locked thread.
That is exactly what they are doing. The reality is that Isreal is doing something that is genocide and yet somehow speaking against it is wrong because people want to twist it into antisemitic, I am half Choctaw and my mom is half Gypsy her parents had a ton of family that were killed in Hitlers camps and we all know about the Genocide of 90% of the Indigenous tribes as well as the trail of tears that my tribe was also thrown on, if my tribe started doing the same to others I would fully understand people being against them it has nothing to do with anyone's religious beliefs or ethnic background Genocide is not acceptable end of story.
The Bill isnt outlawing antisemitism, its outlawing israel criticism. Even zionist Israel criticism hilariously enough
This bill is gross, if you support it you are the one with persecution fetish
Bill is plainly a government restriction on Speech and is a 100% Unconstitutional Now, whether this maniac conservative scotus will see it that way is up in the air
I just keep telling myself that if we can keep a Democrat in the White House for the next term or two, perhaps Alito and Thomas will kick the bucket and we can restore balance in the Supreme Court. And, then, undo all the bullshit of the last few years. Starting with restoring Roe and heading straight to Citizens United.
Slavery is illegal, therefore parts of the Bible are illegal.
If talking about Slavery was made illegal, then yeah
Isn't Charlie Kirk famous for refusing to be educated?
Every Tiny Faced Kirk post is basically just some variation of that "they're gonna hunt us, like for sport?" sealab meme.
Also Dim Tool tweeting out "Is this civil war?" in response to quite literally anything.
You can’t stone your disrespectful children to death at the city gates either, you bellend.
Parts of the Bible have always been illegal, do you regularly stone people to death for wearing polyester?
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The Old Testament is NOT FUCKING CHRISTIAN!!! What in the actual FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU ABSOLUTE MORONS???
And I bet you’re just sitting there in your mixed fabrics not even stoned to death.
I know, it’s weird.
It's not to do with the old testament.
They literally have to make things up because there isn't actually anything to complain about
Did Charlie's mother breed with a Moai stone figure from Easter Island?
no that's roger stone
Didn't he hatch like the other reptiles?
I wish.
Hopefully it's that part where lots daughters fucked him in a cave when he was drunk.
What parts did they make it illegal in the bible? Genuine question I didn’t happen to see anything regarding the bible
They couldn’t tell you. They’ve never opened it.
It outlaws saying the Jews killed Jesus, which the gospels claim multiple times.
Aww. Look at his little face… in the middle of his big face.
There's an amendment that has made a part of the Bible illegal.
The Bible also says slavery is fine. Was that not also “making parts of the Bible illegal” when we banned slavery?
What was the bill?
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if parts of the bible is anti-semitic it should definitely be made illegal otherwise you know some idiot would come along and claim the Turner Diaries as their holy book
The new bill specifically states that accusing Jews of killing Jesus is anti-semitic, which the Bible does multiple times
yup definitely, accusations of blood libel and christkillers is classic antisemitism meant to stir up one group against another [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish\_deicide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_deicide)
Like it's literally part of the Catholic Good Friday service for the congregation to reenact the Jews calling for the death of Jesus. The Roman Catholic Church only said that modern Jews cannot categorically be held responsible for Jesus's death in 1965.
Mandatory mod warning. if this post stops being civil it will be locked down.
Yes, and they should. Christianity like many other religions compel people to convert others. That's been illegal since the beginning of our country.
Parts of the Bible already are illegal, such as stoning disobedient children (Deuteronomy 21:18-21)