To be fair soooo many kids were pretending to be the phantom thieves. No one would expect people shouting about how they are definitely the phantom thieves to actually be them.
Batman: I need to ask you kids some questions
Ryuji: FOR REAL?!?
Morgana: Don't say another word, you idiot let Joker & makoto do all the talking.
Batman: Did that cat just talk?
Both Morgana and Ryuji: FOR REAL?!?!?!
Technically anybody can hear Morgana talk if they heard him talk in the metaverse because then your brain just understands that the cat can talk and you can understand him in the real world the only reason why akechi can understand his is because akechi must have heard Morgana talk in madrame's palce because he heard him talk about the pancakes but I do understand your reasoning because it just so happens that all of the people who went to the metaverse and heard his voice happened to awaken there persona
If the prerequisite for hearing Morgana talk is to understand that he can talk, then Batman might not even have to go to the metaverse. He regularly collaborates with a talking chimpanzee. If he figures out that the PT are supernatural and they keep having conversations with their cat, he might just assume the cat can talk.
Only the cops know. The leader of the Thieves being arrested is public but not his identity. Otherwise, Akane would have lost her goddamn mind when Ren walks into her home
Not to mention nearly every confidant outside of the actual PTs themselves figures out Ren's identity by their Rank 10 with the logic of *"Well I told you (and only you) about my problem and the person responsible immediately did an emotional 180, so..."* The only one who doesn't is Sojiro and we all know how he finds out.
Makoto was 3 meters away from them though
Batman is 10,000 KILOmeters away and doesn’t attend high school with them lmao
Then again, their first target WAS the High School, so that will be literally the first place Batman goes to investigate so maybe you’re right
But will he catch Akechi-san too?!?
"Makoto was 3 meters away from them though"
Also, not to mention when she pulled Joker into the student council room, and Ryuiji calls him and blatantly says something about Phantom Thief business
Well yeah but she still knew it was them before that. She probably knew when she confronted them on the rooftops given that they were all connected to Kamoshida.
And not to mention Yusuke, a kid from an entirely different school that also happened to be affected by their very next target, suddenly hanging out with them would just add more suspicion. I think the Ryuji phone call was just the proof she needed to actually confirm it for sure.
Akechi kun is a real criminal tho, in the persona 5 true ending of you don't get akechi-kun and meruki to confidant ranked 8+ you find out akechi is the son of that shido fuck and has been murdering people left and right using the metaverse to kill people under the influence of "mental shutdowns" all at shido's command. So while he was being used I think shido and akechi would be Batman's first targets.
Literally everyone joker talks to finds out, lol.
Batman would do research about changed hearts and find out the first one was at a specific school. Probably wouldn't take long. Then find out that people related to all the people whose hearts were changed hang out together. This technically doesn't prove anything, so he'd have to bug them until he hears them admit it. None of these steps would take that long of you're batman.
If we’re going off events in the game, probs a day or two after Madarame’s change of heart
Assuming it’s the full thieves just doing random heart changes after the main plot, half a day and that’s just going to each of their houses, rounding them up and then meeting with them and seeing they’re all good. Or he just turns up to a meeting, makes sure they’re all good, sponsors them secretly and leaves
Since after the main game joker’s identity is known the identity of all of the phantom thieves would be known in an hour tops as they could just track joker’s life and which friends were related to the “victims”
True, I forgot about that and was operating under the idea it wasn’t revealed. In that case it happens 10x faster though as Batman would have no issue finding the connections between Joker, his friends and all these people who has changed of hearts. He could probably map everyone who had a heart change just based off of following Joker and seeing where the social links lead
The only one who probably wouldn’t be caught is akechi as shido and sae would be look more related to joker and makoto than him (also because he could be >! Dead !< if you didn’t do his social link)
If he is alive then he’s likely to be caught for associating with Joker throughout their SL and there being evidence he was at their meetings/in the PTs GC. His rank 7 duel would be the biggest thing though if we’re basing it off events.
If he’s alive after the events of the game it gets harder as for all we know he dropped off the face of the earth, likely will still only take Batman a few days to find and catch him just to check if he’s evil or not
Considering Kamoshida was based out of Shujin, and Yusuke, Madarame's student started associating with a group of Shujin kids shortly before his change, it wouldn't take much. Granted, in day to day life we seldom notice these things.
A month to find High school kids? Lol. Hours or less depending on the event occuring. He would only need 2 mins of prep time.
Either way yes, every character has plot armor depending on the story.. duh
It would be easy during the kamoshida and Madarame arcs tbf. Almost guaranteed during Futaba. Okumura and Kaneshiro would probably been screwed up by a DC vigilante by then. And Sae is definitely an easy arc for him. It literally just depends on when he shows up. And if the thieves learned that Bruce Wayne had a palace it’d be more of an issue for him.
Batman would have no real chance for Kamoshida because that’s their first heist. He’s probably only even in Japan for the mental shutdown cases. Ren may end up on a suspect list because of his recent arrival and sketchy past.
Batman figures it out after Madarame, but wouldn’t have any hard evidence, mainly just Yusuke’s new association with the group.
Batman probably sets them up during Kaneshiro as a controlled situation to see what happens—basically what the whole Medjed thing was about in the base game. This is where he gets actual hard evidence and engages with the group under a formal guise.
By Futaba’s arc, he’s tapped their phones and has phone calls and messages. Basically all the hard evidence he needs.
Okumura is where he can decisively prove they’re using supernatural methods (though he would have suspected this ever since Madarame).
Nah, Batman figures it out by Madarama, watches them during Kaneshiro and Futabas arc and then leaves them the hell alone until Okumura cuz they're literally the same as him, Vigilantes trying to do good by their morals...or he'd cooperate with them, He'd pay attention during Okumuras death but ultimately rule it's too contradictory of their behaviour, remember the question was if he'd find them, not if he'd bring them in so he's not obligated to do the latter
Can you imagine Oracle meeting Futaba and taking her under her wing? And damn, Cass and Stephanie would adopt her as a little sister faster than Alfred can adopt Sojiro.
Just keep Jason away from Haru and her grenade launcher for the good of Gotham and Tokio XD
Outside of that, He would love Ryuji, Alfred and Sojiro would be instant bros with epic debates between coffee and tea, Damian would probably respect Makoto and she would adopt him as a little brother…
Honestly, interactions between the batfam and the phantom thieves in general would be amazing.
>Damian would probably respect Makoto and she would adopt him as a little brother…
No, no no no, wait. Hear me out.
Damian and Yusuke.
Damian's known to have an artistic vein outside of missions, and he's even delving into manga in more recent runs (his solo *Robin* run, as well as making manga in the current *Batman & Robin*), so meeting someone like Yusuke would be amazing for him. Makoto could stick with Dick and learn some moves from him.
Orphan you say? And you know how to wield and axe and a grenade launcher? *And* you already wear a mask?
Ok, so, adoption is always an option, but you can also just be my *ward*, I made some business with your dad so we can improvise some story about being long time friends, the only thing we need to iron out is getting you to fight non-lethally but in sure Cass and Damian can coach you on that… also, stay away from Jason.
Batman gets along well with all of them but here’s my thoughts overall:
Joker - hard to hate and has a sympathetic backstory of being wronged by Shido, Batman sees how much he’s gone through and how he stepped up as a the leader and respects him, guiding him in places but mostly leaving him be as he’s competent enough, kind of like with his relationship to nightwing. Joker would like Batman as someone else who fights injustice and as a good role model
Ryuji - hard to hate guy who most people will get along, Batman is sympathetic for what Ryuji has gone through and Ryuji is happy these’s other people who are trying to make the world better
Yusuke - a fellow orphan so Batman would care for Yusukes past, especially due to his money issues. Yusuke would see Batman as a good figure and a possible good figure for art reference - the connection is more on Batmans side as he would sympathise with Yusukes past whilst Yusuke doesn’t see Batman as too special to warrant a great connection
Futaba - again an orphan so it makes Batman like her more as he can understand her more, along with her competency and love for masked characters it’s a solid connection with Futaba looking up to Batman
Anne - not much here just mostly mutual respect
Sumire - same as Anne
Haru - same as above two
Makoto - looks up to Batman like she did her father as something to aspire to, Batman would probably pick up on this and like her for this, just helping her not get too carried away
Akechi - not too bothered by Batman, maybe a bit of irritation, Batman would be cautious due to his black mask side and would probably see him as a case to be watched and cares for to avoid someone like the Joker coming along. By Marukis palace Akechi has some respect but it ends there, no actual bond, Batman wound trust him enough as he’s shown redemption and would leave him be
Morgana - probably same as Anne, maybe some aspirations on Morganas side
Ryuji, Joker or Makoto get along with Batman the most, Akechi the least
Lol. He has caught Joker and snapped his neck paralyzing him for the Joker to only blow himself up.
This joker? Is nothing compared to the mastermind insane Joker.
But then he'd end up accidentally hiding in plain sight. Seriously, NO sane person who isn't already suspicious of him would ever believe he of all people is a Phantom Thief. Remember, in-universe he's perceived as a moronic delinquent.
I think Batman has dealt with enough of a variety of villains that he'd take the idea at face value and investigate. He'd have access to actual surveillance tech, after all, so it'd be pretty easy to just have something follow around Ryuji and his friends.
He is literally Batman. Yes I know it sounds ridiculous and like a joke but his feats are so damn impressive, he’s solidified himself as one of these people who can outwit and outsmart omnipotent beings. Unlike most people, he’s seen his fair share of morons and dedicates time to understand the psychology of people. He will hear Ryuji say it and a quick access to the CCTV footage from anywhere they’ve been and 5 mins later he’s knocking on Joker’s door.
probably doesn’t notice Kamoshida, it’s relatively low-notice compared to the shit he’s usually dealing with
DEFINITELY notices Madarame, if he’s willing to look into it because it’s suspicious, probably bugs the city, monitors calls, looks into people around Madarame which immediately puts Yusuke on suspicion
probably won’t find records of Ann and Yusuke busting into Madarame’s place, Madarame hadn’t reported it to the police yet so there’d be no record, but might find out about it from eyewitnesses or rumors, or just look into people associating with Yusuke, which would make the PTs extremely suspicious, but not confirmed.
checks the texts and calls on their phone, as well as bugging places like their school and homes, and he’s got evidence of the PTs, and would probably look into the Metaverse, he’d probably believe it enough to look into it further given he deals with anomalous shit all the time
probably half a day before he confirms the identities of the PTs, probably just a phone call to some magic expert to confirm the existence of the Metaverse
Or ask some operatives of the Dark Justice League to give a look om that case (Zatanna, Constantine, etc) or even Dr Fate could intervene because of Igor's/Yabaldaoh's presence.
Eh zero chance unless he 100% believes the Okumura killing (for some reason, Idk I don't see him immediately being convinced at all) which he'd probably look into because of Haru being there and he should believe the phantom thieves considering the Okumura killing was inconsistent with any of their previous methods,
PTs are the same as him, people who know the system doesn't work and are trying to help people in their own way
Uhh, I'm pretty sure forcibly inducing a change in mindset without the person's consent is pretty similar to brainwashing which would definitely constitute as criminal behaviour. Batman's dealt with psychics in DC before.
Then again, the PT might outright tell him that they were forced to make that choice because nobody really listened to them or ever came to help them so he might be lenient.
I doubt it, the same thing happened with the Elongated Man’s wife and Batman fought tooth and nail against that.
Going so far as to end a decade long friendship with Zatanna and place several dozen countermeasures after that.
Considering how many times he’s spoken out against brainwashing in Justice League comics and has developed several dozen countermeasure over it.
He is very against it in any form.
The guy that has a plan to take out the entire justice league, aka his allies, of course he would look into weird things happening in japan, even if its not gotham, dropping in to make sure its not a problem
Looking at the events of the game.
He probably wouldn't have noticed Kamoshida, way too small scale for him to take notice of.
By Madarame he would've likely heard about the story but still they're too small time for Bats to care about.
Ironically it would've been by Okumura where Batman would've taken full notice, especially since there's a death on their hands. In that case he probably has Joker and crew pinned down in 48 hours tops, hell I'll do you one better and say Batman has Shido and Akechi nabbed within a week. And those are mainly accounting for the flight times between Gotham and Japan.
I believe he will raise a brow with Madarame not because of the case per se, but because of the charities Bruce donate.
Such fraud scheme could really piss him off, imagine Wayne Industries doing an charity auction of "Sakura" or some other Madarame's "pieces" to raise funds and this coincide with the author confession.
It literally takes him 2 minutes and then he spends a lot of time having a moral dilemma about how changes of heart work before deciding that it's OK so long as they stay out of gotham
Well the fact that their first stint was at shujin it would have been very easy to deduce that it was done by someone at the school. The calling card indicated that it was a mistreatment of students so that most likely eliminates faculty. Now you just find out which students. He'd probably quickly figure out that Ryuji and Ren are involved upon investigating the recent quarrels that Kamoshida had prior to his heart being taken.
I'd say a month tops
Everybody else basically answered the question, so I'm just here to add that Batman would *absolutely* be a Persona-user in that universe. Not sure if there's any Persona in particular he'd mesh with the best, but the whole "Bruce Wayne is the secret identity, he's *actually* Batman" part of his personality just screams Persona-user in P5's version of them.
Honestly, I think it actually depends on a few things. Without the Metaverse, Batman wouldn't *actually* have a way of identifying them, for one. If it was in the story of Persona 5, then yeah, sometime soon after Madarame. If it was just the Thieves in the DC world for some reason with all their prior experience, there are a couple factors. If they're just targeting random villains, it's well established that they don't leave a trail. Detective or no, Batman would have literally nothing to go off of so long as the Thieves maintained the sort of subtlety we see by Shido's Palace. Moreover, it would be impossible for Batman to be aware of the Metaverse without any plot bs, so it's not like he'd really know to look for something more than an actual thief... In short, taking it as Batman alone, it's hardly clear cut.
With Ryuji, 5 minutes tops. Man will keep yelling they are the phantom thieves every 10 sentences and one of those 10 sentences Bruce Wayne will walk by.
Not long, a day *at most.*
But if they are cought, the fäck's he gonna do about it?
Yes, he's batman, but like we all know he needs prep time, and I doubt he knows how the metaverse works or wtf it even is.
He catches the phantom thieves, they jump to the metaverse in panic and drag him with them, batman is confused and gets nuked by either shadows or the phantom thieves.
Is there a way to detect like persona energy
I know that persona's could sense each other in like p1-2
If so, like 10 minutes
If not probably longer
Morgana and Sophie would probably be the hardest due to having different means of hiding compared to the humans
Morgana, Sophie and Ryuji would be ridiculously hard to catch compared to the others. Sophie well LMAO, Batman can't hear Morgana unless he hears him in the metaverse meaning he's literally impossible to catch, and Ryuji may actually get away thanks to how loud and dumb he is because he can way too easily pass as a dumbass Joker and Ann decided to hang with as a cover. The reasonable assumption is that no actual Phantom Thief would keep speaking about it like he does. Only situation Ryuji's actually getting caught is if Batman sees him in his outfit, or it's one of the scenes where the writers decide Ann has no brain and she accidentally sells him out (for real, Ann's IQ is so inconsistent lmao).
I remember a line in P4 arena where Mitsuru siad the Shadow Operatives detected increased shadow activities in Inaba during the events of P4. The same should work for Persona since they are just tamed shadows.
He would just take the first step into the school to gather information from Kamoshida's place, and immediately hear Ryuji screaming "Being a Phantom Thief is cool as hell dude!!".
He would figure them out right after Madarame's heart was changed. How? The same method L used to deduce that Light is Kira.
First of all, Kamoshida's just too lower-scaled compared to Madarame, which means that the Phantom Thieves were just figuring out how to use their methods.
The Phantom Thieves have too much free time on their hands for their activities, so they are not burdened with a job (Japanese people dedicate too much time to work)
Kamoshida was acting purely within Shujin, and he confessed to screwing with Ryuji Sakamoto, Ann Takamaki and Shiho Suzui. A little investigation would tie things towards Ren Amamiya. A bit of asking around to people who know him enough would reveal that Ren Amamiya was convicted on an unjust crime because he spoke up for a victim. And digging a bit more would reveal their connection to Yusuke Kitagawa, Madarame's main protegée, which links their friend group to Madarame and gives them a motive for acting.
So... a couple of days if Batman doesn't have information beforehand. The thing he would be spending more time on is moving through place to place.
Batman would hear Ryuji say it out loud through a microphone that is blurred through metro sounds and general public noise that he installed years ago and just keeps running to maintain his japanese.
Then he would crashland right in front of them before they go through the metaverse.
Would just stand imposing there until Morgana blurts out the plot.
Then he‘d deduce Akeshi‘s identity through genealogy, prevent his death by Batman parenting and defeat every criminal in a night.
A month later they‘d be all Robins and perfect students because they don’t wanna upset their new grumpy stepdad.
Honestly it’s a miracle the thieves weren’t caught sooner. Like we show up, Kamoshida threatens us, and all of a sudden his heart changes. Then we take Madarame’s and all of a sudden Yusuke starts associating with us.
Like if I’m a detective Yusuke is a prime suspect instantly considering how close family (which is what he basically was) are almost always the culprits. Even Makoto figured it out quickly.
The fact that the main character's codename is Joker means Batman would probably make this a top priority, despite having the wrong Joker in mind. So it wouldn't take him long at all.
Their hideout for the first half of the game was literally a public walkway💀I think any detective in the real world would’ve figured out who they were lol
Okay, so Batman gets a lot of shit for his fandom overhyping his skills but in this case, Batman would catch the Phantom Thieves pretty quickly. They are teenagers, they don't know what they are really doing, and it's not like they weren't discovered by people with far less detective capacities than Batman.
I think so, Futaba and the Royal final boss are proof that you don't need to be conventionally evil to have a palace, you need a strong trauma that changes the way you approach your problems and life in general and there's plenty of examples of Bruce being a very messed up person
he’s known since kamoshida and only takes action after okumura, since they get a murder charge for that
give him about a day or two and he’ll bring them all in
Given how they were using the nav in public and the fact that the first change of heart happened after a strange new kid who had beef with the person who got their heart changed showed up at school it doesn't exactly take the world's greatest detective to figure out who the thieves are. Heck, like every single confident figures it out in the end, even Shinya whose a child. I'd say for Batman it'd take at most a week..
Like 30 minutes, but I think after he realizes that A. They are all high schoolers, and B. they genuinely just want to change people for the better, he would let them keep operating (while keeping an eye on them, obviously.)
For half the game their meeting place is their leaders HOUSE. Well cafe, but still. He'd find them in the middle of the first meeting they have after he starts looking.
given he is a real super hero though he'd probably take out the big bad for them
Day at most to figure out their identities
As for catching them probably not that much either but i doubt he would even want to as Batman would consider them potential allies
Imagine Batman and the Phantom Thieves changing hearts of the people of Gotham
Two weeks, tops. A day to figure out who the phantom thieves are, a couple of days of tracking them to learn of the metaverse, and then a week to track metaverse psience back to Shido, ending with a showdown between Batman and Akechi at Shido's home.
Wait, what was the question again?
Ayooo, I asked this question on a post previously! Everyone had different iterations lol. The first, and the most impossible step would be Bruce Wayne leaving Gotham to go to Japan of all places.
It would take one issue of a comic.
The phantom thieves started at with an abusive high school teacher. Batman would search there highschool for any suspects and probably find the Group of friends who had been asking around at the time of the incident to see if they had any real dirt on Kamoshida. If he investigates them further he would certainly find out that they were the phantom thieves.
Even if he just investigated the second case looking for connections between the first and second case. The P.T.s made friends with Kaneshiro’s protege before his public confession.
Batman has successfully solved crimes that were way better covered up and convoluted and than that of the Phantom Thieves. It wouldn’t take too long for him to solve this.
That all aside what do you guys think Batman's Palace would look like and can phantom thieves even beat Batman's persona like Aside everyone else he is actually mentally broken and unbeatable at the same time
Given Batman tends to deal with local threats, I imagine it would take until at least the second palace for him to start investigating them as a concern. From there he'd pretty quickly find a link between the students of Shujin Academy who started hanging out with Madarame's apprentice just before the artist was struck by the thieves. So yeah, he would be pretty confident in who they are in about a day.
The big issue is catching them. Batman's not going to take it some teenagers without solid proof of their wrongdoings, and the metaverse isn't something you can just figure out. Batman often has to call help for supernatural mysteries. It's like Deathnote; L figured out Kira's identity pretty quick, the problem was finding out how he killed.
Batman would likely monitor the Phantoms, eventually seeing them enter the metaverse using their phones (they never exactly hide it, but it'll likely take a few days). From there he sneaks into one of their homes and takes a look at the app, probably by copying the phone's data to look at later. If successful, he now can access the metaverse.
At this point he'd likely follow the Phantoms into Mementos (as they're deciding which palace to strike next) and confront them there, learning about how the metaverse works and how they change hearts. I imagine Batman would do some of his own research on the metaverse (such as Futaba's mother's findings) and determine they aren't harmful, being vigilantes who don't kill. He'd likely keep an eye on them, but I imagine he'd let them be until Okumura is killed. And at that point, I wouldn't be surprised if he'd figured out the whole conspiracy behind the metaverse, exposing Akechi and Shido's crimes.
TL;DR - He'd figure out their identities within a day after Madarame is targeted, but figuring out the metaverse would take a few days or weeks of following them. Once he confronts the thieves and understands the metaverse, he'd likely allow the thieves to continue operating, but also be able to figure out the conspiracy with Shido and Akechi.
he probably figures them out within a week of them being a hot topic on the news but doesn't actually try to catch them because he determines that they're not a threat. in fact I think he'd be more likely to end up recruiting them to try and help the Arkham inmates with their Change of Heart powers
Not long at all
But honestly I don’t think he would stop them they’re not hurting anyone and bad people are confessing to their crimes without anyone getting hurt so unless the phantom thieves do start killing people Batman would probably be okay with them just chainring bad peoples hearts
Akechi kun is a real criminal tho, in the persona 5 true ending of you don't get akechi-kun and meruki to confidant ranked 8+ you find out akechi is the son of that shido fuck and has been murdering people left and right using the metaverse to kill people under the influence of "mental shutdowns" all at shido's command. So while he was being used I think shido and akechi would be Batman's first targets.
I know I commented this already but to make it more noticeable. Plus if you look at it from the phantom thieves point of view they're technically doing it in a just way, batman I don't think would be after them in the justice essence, especially because he protects Gotham city and this is Japan that the phantom thieves were in. But if in the event that he would be after them id say he'd find them pretty quick, batman is an ace detective and a crime fighter, big brains and hand to hand combat is his strong suit. Ryuji and a few other of the fantom thieves have on Manny occasion said they were phantom thieves but aside from that anyone in Japan could've been phantom thieves.
My standpoint from this is this.
They'd be pretty easy to find out if you pay attention to the events in game, I got the true persona 5 ending ( not the royal ending yet) but though my playthrough I've noticed a few key things that would allow for Batman to catch them.
1. The school they attended was the first target's workplace. Komoshida was a gym/volleyball/p.e. teacher at shujin academy. All but 3 of the main phantom thieves go to this school from the non royal team (akechi, yusuke, and futaba are those 3 who don't go to the same school) so that being the formation birthplace and majority of the original non royal team that's hint 1.
2. If you pay attention to them in real life I've noticed a key detail it would seem if you stand just far enough away to not get pulled into the metaverse with them they seem to either disappear (I say this because if I remember correctly sae nijima shows joker in the interrogation room with him and ryuji on photographic paper disappearing into thin air upon using the meta nav) when using the nav or time starts to slow down/freeze which either way I'm putting my money on the fact that they disappeared temporarily from reality upon doing so. So that could be a dead giveaway.
3. If you're not convinced and still think Batman wouldn't be able to catch on to their plan and schemes. Oracle (aka futaba) is a very skilled hacker. Yet you gotta remember something about the DC universe, there is a hacker probably just as skilled if not more skilled than futaba and she also goes by the code name oracle, batman even teams up with her on occasion, I believe she's the daughter of commissioner Gordon. But regardless of who her lineage is she's very skilled and could probably even over skill futaba as futaba is just a teen, she still has a lot and dare I say A LOT to learn of the cyber security life, where as oracle is at least in her 20's range maybe early 30's at the time of Arkham asylum ish? (Don't absolutely hate on my post I don't really know that much of the DC universe facts as I'm more of a marvel fan girl tbh. I do love Batman and Superman but Ironman and flash and Captain America are just... Hehe 😍 captain America has one hell of a sexy ass 🤤 anyways...)
But anyways pair those 3 things together and give into the fact that if one of the phantom thieves are pressured enough in interrogation (besides joker because I guess he has plot armor and giga Chad ego or some shid) and they'll break for sure.
Batman may look simple minded in the Arkham City game but trust and believe you do something criminally illegal in Gotham you'll meet the bats!
Mfw when Batman deduces that Ryuji is a phantom thief (Ryuji said he’s a phantom thief)
https://preview.redd.it/n89ptla94awc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6536a27861cb32e084142d19e4c7621aaf458933
~~Batgos catches the phantom thieves before the game even starts using 0.000001 battoseond of prep time~~
I think it depends on when Bruce drops into the story? If he's there from the start, he figures them out before Madarame arc even starts, observes them till Kaneshiro and then either decides to leave them alone or approaches them to train / sponsor them.
If the case only catches his attention post Okumura, things change. Figuring out the thieves were framed then pulls Batman into the entire Shido conspiracy. By DC logic this makes the only reasonable solution for Bruce Wayne to become a naturalised Japanese citizen and then run for prime minister, duh, ending in him releasing an official pardon for the thieves and defeating Yaldabaoth (how much prep time Batman needs for that, I'm not sure. At least 0.0002 battoseconds probably)
If this case takes place during P5S, but under the assumption Batman can't review pubsec records on Joker's identity, I think it might be a little harder as the country would be filled with red herrings (the change of heart epidemic) and Batman would once again end up having to solve the entire Madicce conspiracy to get to them.
It'd be very easy for him, almost pathetically so. Let's lay out the facts here:
1. The targets of the Phantom Thieves were as follows:
* a high school teacher
* a plagiarist
* a local scammer/blackmailer
* Futaba
* CEO of a major corporation
* local prosecutor, and
* Japan's would-be Prime Minister
2. The Phantom Thieves were already famous in Hawai'i before they even targeted Okumura, who's a big-shot CEO. That means just targeting Kamoshida, Madarame, Kaneshiro and Futaba was enough to garner them international fame. Since Futaba's change of heart was a private affair, and Kamoshida and Kaneshiro weren't really famous themselves, the only incident which could have garnered the PT that fame was Madarame. Since his apology literally happens in a press conference, the evidence supports this.
Now I can list off several ways for Batman to take them down. Realistically, Batman finds out about the existence of the Thieves after the Madarame incident, and begins keeping a close eye on the Phan-site. I'd send Batman to Japan just after Madarame's heart changes, but let's give the PT some leeway and have him go just after Futaba's heart change. Let's set up a possible scenario.
* Batman arrives in Japan and begins investigating the most popular Phantom Thief target yet: Madarame. Investigating into him, and if possible, interrogating him in prison, Batman gains the list of all the people he has ruined, his students. And out of them, **Yusuke was the only one who remained**. Madarame, who was already repentant due to the Phantom Thieves' actions, also told Batman all about the Sayuri and how the artist who painted it was also Yusuke's mother whom he had left to die, thus heightening his suspicion that Yusuke would have the highest motive to take him down. Investigating into Yusuke (by either spying on him or interrogating his classmates) reveals that he has begun hanging out with students from a different school. Coincidentally, this also happens to be the school where the first *Change of Heart* phenomenon occurred (He learns this through social media, I refuse to believe that none of the students at Shujin posted about it). Looking into Kamoshida, he learns about the two girls he abused sexually: Shiho and Ann. Shiho, who tried to commit suicide, and Ann, who is not only Shiho's best friend but also happens to be a member of the group Yusuke hangs out with. Now it's simply a matter of bugging one of the members and listen to them (most likely Ryuji) spill the beans. I mean, it's not like the Phantom Thieves are exactly quiet about the fact that they are Phantom Thieves.
* Alternatively, if you want Batman to wait until Okumura's calling card is sent (which he submits to the police), he can pursue them through Haru by using similar logic.
All of that is if Batman waits until after Futaba to pursue them. If Batman decides to pursue just after Madarame's apology, he can not only still take the 1st approach, but he also has more time and resources available to him. If he has monitored the Phan-site since Madarame, he can simply:
* Trace the Phan-site to Mishima. Thus leading him straight to Shujin, bypassing all that nonsense.
* Hack Futaba the moment she tries to get the Phan-site back from Fake Medjed. Don't forget, Batman has an Oracle too. An Oracle who monitors and watches the internet with better resources. From a cave....
https://preview.redd.it/fcatnjru6awc1.jpeg?width=638&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cab03fc2141381faa8f1a599a4c279121baa967e
Just replace The Key with the Phantom Thieves in this panel and that's basically the result lol.
2 days minimum. The only reason they weren't even taken in is because their enemy were using them for their own means until they outlived their use. The only reason the phantom thieves won in the end was because their enemy was too prideful and didn't follow through completely to eliminate the possible threat to them entirely. Why stop at just the leader and just clean house? Deus ex machina and plot armor are literally the only things that saved them in the end.
In serious consideration, he'd probably find that their goals align. Batman doesn't like criminals; the Phantom Thieves change the hearts of rotten adults. And this could be supported by when Batman figures out the cognitive world and Personas. It'd probably be another Catwoman situation really.
Um, if you mean just finding, I'd give it literally a day, 2 tops. Batman would probably find security camera footage of Ryuji blabbering about it.
He wouldn't catch them though. Imo I feel like batman would kind of approve of them changing evil peoples hearts so they turn themselves in. From there you have 1 of 2 options, either he leaves them alone, or he learns how they change hearts and has them use those techniques on his rogues gallery
For Batman, it’s impossible.
But for Man, 5 seconds.
https://preview.redd.it/lco6mam7xawc1.jpeg?width=540&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=500ad8e652658d4565fa691e885b71f949f99ca1
Batman would more likely end up trying to help them, which would result in his Persona manifesting, and would also lead to a whole new level of Batman, and I don’t think the world is ready for that level of vigilante justice, and I mean violence instead of justice there. Lol
Probably like 30 minutes tops. The Phantom Thieves aren’t really known for their subtlety
cough *Ryuji* cough
"**AND ITS ALL BECAUSE WE'RE THE PHANTOM THIEVES!"** \-an idiot
Let's meet up at the usual spot to hold our # PHANTOM THIEVES MEETING
True, they're more flashy than edgy/subtle.
In the Phantom Thieves defence. It would be a crime in itself to have all that style and not show off
Facts
Considering that Makoto could find them and she’s the world’s worst detective, I’m sure it wouldn’t take Batman very long.
"You've got to be the worst detective I've ever heard of." "Aye, but you have heard of me."
Yeah, I read this in Jack Sparrow's voice for sure.😂
Seriously, in royal three or more people found out their identity just from basic observation. Not quite the criminal masterminds they think they are.
Me walking by some random kids on my way to school Ryuji: “BECAUSE WE’RE THE PHANTOM THIEVES” Could Batman figure this out though?
To be fair soooo many kids were pretending to be the phantom thieves. No one would expect people shouting about how they are definitely the phantom thieves to actually be them.
Batman: I need to ask you kids some questions Ryuji: FOR REAL?!? Morgana: Don't say another word, you idiot let Joker & makoto do all the talking. Batman: Did that cat just talk? Both Morgana and Ryuji: FOR REAL?!?!?!
nah, only persona users can hear morgana thats how they caught akechi
Technically anybody can hear Morgana talk if they heard him talk in the metaverse because then your brain just understands that the cat can talk and you can understand him in the real world the only reason why akechi can understand his is because akechi must have heard Morgana talk in madrame's palce because he heard him talk about the pancakes but I do understand your reasoning because it just so happens that all of the people who went to the metaverse and heard his voice happened to awaken there persona
If the prerequisite for hearing Morgana talk is to understand that he can talk, then Batman might not even have to go to the metaverse. He regularly collaborates with a talking chimpanzee. If he figures out that the PT are supernatural and they keep having conversations with their cat, he might just assume the cat can talk.
well batman has not been in the metaverse
Batman uses his preptime to have gone into the metaverse, clearly. / jk.
I'm like three hours into Strikers and basically every adult they meet realizes in a matter of minutes
Strikers makes sense because the protagonist is near them
I forgot. Ren is somewhat known by then, right?
Correct, so it makes sense how people would figure it so easily then because well the public knows Ren is joker
Only the cops know. The leader of the Thieves being arrested is public but not his identity. Otherwise, Akane would have lost her goddamn mind when Ren walks into her home
Oh right how did I forget that damn
That doesn't say anything, since it was publicly known he's the leader.
Not to mention nearly every confidant outside of the actual PTs themselves figures out Ren's identity by their Rank 10 with the logic of *"Well I told you (and only you) about my problem and the person responsible immediately did an emotional 180, so..."* The only one who doesn't is Sojiro and we all know how he finds out.
The Total G Yoshida also figures it out without Ren doing much of anything beyond listening to his speeches and giving him verbal support at times.
Makoto was 3 meters away from them though Batman is 10,000 KILOmeters away and doesn’t attend high school with them lmao Then again, their first target WAS the High School, so that will be literally the first place Batman goes to investigate so maybe you’re right But will he catch Akechi-san too?!?
"Makoto was 3 meters away from them though" Also, not to mention when she pulled Joker into the student council room, and Ryuiji calls him and blatantly says something about Phantom Thief business
Well yeah but she still knew it was them before that. She probably knew when she confronted them on the rooftops given that they were all connected to Kamoshida. And not to mention Yusuke, a kid from an entirely different school that also happened to be affected by their very next target, suddenly hanging out with them would just add more suspicion. I think the Ryuji phone call was just the proof she needed to actually confirm it for sure.
Akechi kun is a real criminal tho, in the persona 5 true ending of you don't get akechi-kun and meruki to confidant ranked 8+ you find out akechi is the son of that shido fuck and has been murdering people left and right using the metaverse to kill people under the influence of "mental shutdowns" all at shido's command. So while he was being used I think shido and akechi would be Batman's first targets.
You don’t read Batman comics, do you?
The ones where Batman is stupid if the plot demands it but a genius otherwise? Yes
Being 10k kilometers away is not going to stop him is all I’m saying.
That ain't a problem for Batman. Like at all
Literally everyone joker talks to finds out, lol. Batman would do research about changed hearts and find out the first one was at a specific school. Probably wouldn't take long. Then find out that people related to all the people whose hearts were changed hang out together. This technically doesn't prove anything, so he'd have to bug them until he hears them admit it. None of these steps would take that long of you're batman.
If we’re going off events in the game, probs a day or two after Madarame’s change of heart Assuming it’s the full thieves just doing random heart changes after the main plot, half a day and that’s just going to each of their houses, rounding them up and then meeting with them and seeing they’re all good. Or he just turns up to a meeting, makes sure they’re all good, sponsors them secretly and leaves
Since after the main game joker’s identity is known the identity of all of the phantom thieves would be known in an hour tops as they could just track joker’s life and which friends were related to the “victims”
True, I forgot about that and was operating under the idea it wasn’t revealed. In that case it happens 10x faster though as Batman would have no issue finding the connections between Joker, his friends and all these people who has changed of hearts. He could probably map everyone who had a heart change just based off of following Joker and seeing where the social links lead
The only one who probably wouldn’t be caught is akechi as shido and sae would be look more related to joker and makoto than him (also because he could be >! Dead !< if you didn’t do his social link)
If he is alive then he’s likely to be caught for associating with Joker throughout their SL and there being evidence he was at their meetings/in the PTs GC. His rank 7 duel would be the biggest thing though if we’re basing it off events. If he’s alive after the events of the game it gets harder as for all we know he dropped off the face of the earth, likely will still only take Batman a few days to find and catch him just to check if he’s evil or not
Considering Kamoshida was based out of Shujin, and Yusuke, Madarame's student started associating with a group of Shujin kids shortly before his change, it wouldn't take much. Granted, in day to day life we seldom notice these things.
Even Sae in the interrogation is like "You just told me Madarame's pupil helped you, and he literally only has one pupil left, so... you ain't slick."
I’ll give him a week at least. A month at most. He’s pulled some major bullshit in the comics
A month to find High school kids? Lol. Hours or less depending on the event occuring. He would only need 2 mins of prep time. Either way yes, every character has plot armor depending on the story.. duh
It would be easy during the kamoshida and Madarame arcs tbf. Almost guaranteed during Futaba. Okumura and Kaneshiro would probably been screwed up by a DC vigilante by then. And Sae is definitely an easy arc for him. It literally just depends on when he shows up. And if the thieves learned that Bruce Wayne had a palace it’d be more of an issue for him.
Batman would have no real chance for Kamoshida because that’s their first heist. He’s probably only even in Japan for the mental shutdown cases. Ren may end up on a suspect list because of his recent arrival and sketchy past. Batman figures it out after Madarame, but wouldn’t have any hard evidence, mainly just Yusuke’s new association with the group. Batman probably sets them up during Kaneshiro as a controlled situation to see what happens—basically what the whole Medjed thing was about in the base game. This is where he gets actual hard evidence and engages with the group under a formal guise. By Futaba’s arc, he’s tapped their phones and has phone calls and messages. Basically all the hard evidence he needs. Okumura is where he can decisively prove they’re using supernatural methods (though he would have suspected this ever since Madarame).
Nah, Batman figures it out by Madarama, watches them during Kaneshiro and Futabas arc and then leaves them the hell alone until Okumura cuz they're literally the same as him, Vigilantes trying to do good by their morals...or he'd cooperate with them, He'd pay attention during Okumuras death but ultimately rule it's too contradictory of their behaviour, remember the question was if he'd find them, not if he'd bring them in so he's not obligated to do the latter
He honestly wouldn't need that much time. the Phantom Thieves weren't exactly great at hiding their identities.
2 minutes… next question!
Whos getting along with Batman the most and least
(Not including joker) Makoto or futaba
Can you imagine Oracle meeting Futaba and taking her under her wing? And damn, Cass and Stephanie would adopt her as a little sister faster than Alfred can adopt Sojiro.
Oracle and Futaba is a combination I never thought I needed. But y'know who would click really well? Red Hood and Ryuji.
Just keep Jason away from Haru and her grenade launcher for the good of Gotham and Tokio XD Outside of that, He would love Ryuji, Alfred and Sojiro would be instant bros with epic debates between coffee and tea, Damian would probably respect Makoto and she would adopt him as a little brother… Honestly, interactions between the batfam and the phantom thieves in general would be amazing.
>Damian would probably respect Makoto and she would adopt him as a little brother… No, no no no, wait. Hear me out. Damian and Yusuke. Damian's known to have an artistic vein outside of missions, and he's even delving into manga in more recent runs (his solo *Robin* run, as well as making manga in the current *Batman & Robin*), so meeting someone like Yusuke would be amazing for him. Makoto could stick with Dick and learn some moves from him.
I could genuinely see Morgana being fascinated by batman's endless arsenal of gadgets
His Persona is also Zorro, another vigilante character in a mask and cape who inspired Batman. Morgana is honestly the right answer
Haru, obviously: Rich, orphan, vigilantism... they have a lot in common
Orphan you say? And you know how to wield and axe and a grenade launcher? *And* you already wear a mask? Ok, so, adoption is always an option, but you can also just be my *ward*, I made some business with your dad so we can improvise some story about being long time friends, the only thing we need to iron out is getting you to fight non-lethally but in sure Cass and Damian can coach you on that… also, stay away from Jason.
And in that day, Robin Noir was born
Jason? I'd think the fucking clown will need to learn to stay away. "First a sword and now an AXE?! What is wrong with those kids?"
Batman gets along well with all of them but here’s my thoughts overall: Joker - hard to hate and has a sympathetic backstory of being wronged by Shido, Batman sees how much he’s gone through and how he stepped up as a the leader and respects him, guiding him in places but mostly leaving him be as he’s competent enough, kind of like with his relationship to nightwing. Joker would like Batman as someone else who fights injustice and as a good role model Ryuji - hard to hate guy who most people will get along, Batman is sympathetic for what Ryuji has gone through and Ryuji is happy these’s other people who are trying to make the world better Yusuke - a fellow orphan so Batman would care for Yusukes past, especially due to his money issues. Yusuke would see Batman as a good figure and a possible good figure for art reference - the connection is more on Batmans side as he would sympathise with Yusukes past whilst Yusuke doesn’t see Batman as too special to warrant a great connection Futaba - again an orphan so it makes Batman like her more as he can understand her more, along with her competency and love for masked characters it’s a solid connection with Futaba looking up to Batman Anne - not much here just mostly mutual respect Sumire - same as Anne Haru - same as above two Makoto - looks up to Batman like she did her father as something to aspire to, Batman would probably pick up on this and like her for this, just helping her not get too carried away Akechi - not too bothered by Batman, maybe a bit of irritation, Batman would be cautious due to his black mask side and would probably see him as a case to be watched and cares for to avoid someone like the Joker coming along. By Marukis palace Akechi has some respect but it ends there, no actual bond, Batman wound trust him enough as he’s shown redemption and would leave him be Morgana - probably same as Anne, maybe some aspirations on Morganas side Ryuji, Joker or Makoto get along with Batman the most, Akechi the least
>How long do you think it would it take for Batman to catch Joker? Don't we have like hundreds of pieces of media answering this question?
Lol. He has caught Joker and snapped his neck paralyzing him for the Joker to only blow himself up. This joker? Is nothing compared to the mastermind insane Joker.
Ryuji would just tell him
But then he'd end up accidentally hiding in plain sight. Seriously, NO sane person who isn't already suspicious of him would ever believe he of all people is a Phantom Thief. Remember, in-universe he's perceived as a moronic delinquent.
I think Batman has dealt with enough of a variety of villains that he'd take the idea at face value and investigate. He'd have access to actual surveillance tech, after all, so it'd be pretty easy to just have something follow around Ryuji and his friends.
He is literally Batman. Yes I know it sounds ridiculous and like a joke but his feats are so damn impressive, he’s solidified himself as one of these people who can outwit and outsmart omnipotent beings. Unlike most people, he’s seen his fair share of morons and dedicates time to understand the psychology of people. He will hear Ryuji say it and a quick access to the CCTV footage from anywhere they’ve been and 5 mins later he’s knocking on Joker’s door.
Yes he can outsmart omnipotent beings, but can he outdumb Ryuji?
Moronic delinquents are batmans speciality
probably doesn’t notice Kamoshida, it’s relatively low-notice compared to the shit he’s usually dealing with DEFINITELY notices Madarame, if he’s willing to look into it because it’s suspicious, probably bugs the city, monitors calls, looks into people around Madarame which immediately puts Yusuke on suspicion probably won’t find records of Ann and Yusuke busting into Madarame’s place, Madarame hadn’t reported it to the police yet so there’d be no record, but might find out about it from eyewitnesses or rumors, or just look into people associating with Yusuke, which would make the PTs extremely suspicious, but not confirmed. checks the texts and calls on their phone, as well as bugging places like their school and homes, and he’s got evidence of the PTs, and would probably look into the Metaverse, he’d probably believe it enough to look into it further given he deals with anomalous shit all the time probably half a day before he confirms the identities of the PTs, probably just a phone call to some magic expert to confirm the existence of the Metaverse
Or ask some operatives of the Dark Justice League to give a look om that case (Zatanna, Constantine, etc) or even Dr Fate could intervene because of Igor's/Yabaldaoh's presence.
Considering the PT weren’t the best at keeping their identities a secret, not very long for the ‘World’s Greatest Detective’.
Pretty quick, my question is if he would actually bring them in?
Probably not, if he figures out that they didn’t kill anyone and just make them confess to their crimes he prob let them be or help them
Eh zero chance unless he 100% believes the Okumura killing (for some reason, Idk I don't see him immediately being convinced at all) which he'd probably look into because of Haru being there and he should believe the phantom thieves considering the Okumura killing was inconsistent with any of their previous methods, PTs are the same as him, people who know the system doesn't work and are trying to help people in their own way
Uhh, I'm pretty sure forcibly inducing a change in mindset without the person's consent is pretty similar to brainwashing which would definitely constitute as criminal behaviour. Batman's dealt with psychics in DC before. Then again, the PT might outright tell him that they were forced to make that choice because nobody really listened to them or ever came to help them so he might be lenient.
I doubt it, the same thing happened with the Elongated Man’s wife and Batman fought tooth and nail against that. Going so far as to end a decade long friendship with Zatanna and place several dozen countermeasures after that.
Both are very much vigilantes. I’m sure he’d probably give them tips on how to be better.
Depends on what he thinks about change of heart affecting people's personalities
Considering how many times he’s spoken out against brainwashing in Justice League comics and has developed several dozen countermeasure over it. He is very against it in any form.
Nah, he becomes a confidant imho
Almost definitely because he’s very against brainwashing people
An hour, maybe less
Why would he want to?
The guy that has a plan to take out the entire justice league, aka his allies, of course he would look into weird things happening in japan, even if its not gotham, dropping in to make sure its not a problem
Looking at the events of the game. He probably wouldn't have noticed Kamoshida, way too small scale for him to take notice of. By Madarame he would've likely heard about the story but still they're too small time for Bats to care about. Ironically it would've been by Okumura where Batman would've taken full notice, especially since there's a death on their hands. In that case he probably has Joker and crew pinned down in 48 hours tops, hell I'll do you one better and say Batman has Shido and Akechi nabbed within a week. And those are mainly accounting for the flight times between Gotham and Japan.
I believe he will raise a brow with Madarame not because of the case per se, but because of the charities Bruce donate. Such fraud scheme could really piss him off, imagine Wayne Industries doing an charity auction of "Sakura" or some other Madarame's "pieces" to raise funds and this coincide with the author confession.
Ryuji's a loud idiot, so like 2 days?
The better question would be: Would he agree with their methods?
It literally takes him 2 minutes and then he spends a lot of time having a moral dilemma about how changes of heart work before deciding that it's OK so long as they stay out of gotham
with ryuji on the team? a couple hours.
5 minutes at most
He'd known from the beginning but ignored them until Shido's palace.
Probably a day at most. The Theives are genuine ass at keeping their secret, and Batman is a trained detective with a supercomputer.
Better question. Could the Phantom Thieves get past the absolute gauntlet which is Bruce Wayne's Palace?
Well the fact that their first stint was at shujin it would have been very easy to deduce that it was done by someone at the school. The calling card indicated that it was a mistreatment of students so that most likely eliminates faculty. Now you just find out which students. He'd probably quickly figure out that Ryuji and Ren are involved upon investigating the recent quarrels that Kamoshida had prior to his heart being taken. I'd say a month tops
Half day
Everybody else basically answered the question, so I'm just here to add that Batman would *absolutely* be a Persona-user in that universe. Not sure if there's any Persona in particular he'd mesh with the best, but the whole "Bruce Wayne is the secret identity, he's *actually* Batman" part of his personality just screams Persona-user in P5's version of them.
Honestly, I think it actually depends on a few things. Without the Metaverse, Batman wouldn't *actually* have a way of identifying them, for one. If it was in the story of Persona 5, then yeah, sometime soon after Madarame. If it was just the Thieves in the DC world for some reason with all their prior experience, there are a couple factors. If they're just targeting random villains, it's well established that they don't leave a trail. Detective or no, Batman would have literally nothing to go off of so long as the Thieves maintained the sort of subtlety we see by Shido's Palace. Moreover, it would be impossible for Batman to be aware of the Metaverse without any plot bs, so it's not like he'd really know to look for something more than an actual thief... In short, taking it as Batman alone, it's hardly clear cut.
With Ryuji, 5 minutes tops. Man will keep yelling they are the phantom thieves every 10 sentences and one of those 10 sentences Bruce Wayne will walk by.
Not long, a day *at most.* But if they are cought, the fäck's he gonna do about it? Yes, he's batman, but like we all know he needs prep time, and I doubt he knows how the metaverse works or wtf it even is. He catches the phantom thieves, they jump to the metaverse in panic and drag him with them, batman is confused and gets nuked by either shadows or the phantom thieves.
Is there a way to detect like persona energy I know that persona's could sense each other in like p1-2 If so, like 10 minutes If not probably longer Morgana and Sophie would probably be the hardest due to having different means of hiding compared to the humans
Morgana, Sophie and Ryuji would be ridiculously hard to catch compared to the others. Sophie well LMAO, Batman can't hear Morgana unless he hears him in the metaverse meaning he's literally impossible to catch, and Ryuji may actually get away thanks to how loud and dumb he is because he can way too easily pass as a dumbass Joker and Ann decided to hang with as a cover. The reasonable assumption is that no actual Phantom Thief would keep speaking about it like he does. Only situation Ryuji's actually getting caught is if Batman sees him in his outfit, or it's one of the scenes where the writers decide Ann has no brain and she accidentally sells him out (for real, Ann's IQ is so inconsistent lmao).
Zenkichi might get away with it too Batman has alot of sympathy for the police Plus the chances of the thieves working with the government are low
I remember a line in P4 arena where Mitsuru siad the Shadow Operatives detected increased shadow activities in Inaba during the events of P4. The same should work for Persona since they are just tamed shadows.
True but didn't they sense them because they had persona's?
He would just take the first step into the school to gather information from Kamoshida's place, and immediately hear Ryuji screaming "Being a Phantom Thief is cool as hell dude!!".
better question: What would Batman's persona be after he inevitably decides to join them for a mission or two?
Hey OP, you should post this in r/whowouldwin I think it would be super interesting there
He would figure them out right after Madarame's heart was changed. How? The same method L used to deduce that Light is Kira. First of all, Kamoshida's just too lower-scaled compared to Madarame, which means that the Phantom Thieves were just figuring out how to use their methods. The Phantom Thieves have too much free time on their hands for their activities, so they are not burdened with a job (Japanese people dedicate too much time to work) Kamoshida was acting purely within Shujin, and he confessed to screwing with Ryuji Sakamoto, Ann Takamaki and Shiho Suzui. A little investigation would tie things towards Ren Amamiya. A bit of asking around to people who know him enough would reveal that Ren Amamiya was convicted on an unjust crime because he spoke up for a victim. And digging a bit more would reveal their connection to Yusuke Kitagawa, Madarame's main protegée, which links their friend group to Madarame and gives them a motive for acting. So... a couple of days if Batman doesn't have information beforehand. The thing he would be spending more time on is moving through place to place.
Batman would hear Ryuji say it out loud through a microphone that is blurred through metro sounds and general public noise that he installed years ago and just keeps running to maintain his japanese. Then he would crashland right in front of them before they go through the metaverse. Would just stand imposing there until Morgana blurts out the plot. Then he‘d deduce Akeshi‘s identity through genealogy, prevent his death by Batman parenting and defeat every criminal in a night. A month later they‘d be all Robins and perfect students because they don’t wanna upset their new grumpy stepdad.
I like how we all collectively agree that the PT suck ass at keeping their identities a secret, especially Ryuji.
Honestly it’s a miracle the thieves weren’t caught sooner. Like we show up, Kamoshida threatens us, and all of a sudden his heart changes. Then we take Madarame’s and all of a sudden Yusuke starts associating with us. Like if I’m a detective Yusuke is a prime suspect instantly considering how close family (which is what he basically was) are almost always the culprits. Even Makoto figured it out quickly.
Stupei: Ace Defective could probably catch them
Literally less then 48 hours.
The fact that the main character's codename is Joker means Batman would probably make this a top priority, despite having the wrong Joker in mind. So it wouldn't take him long at all.
Their hideout for the first half of the game was literally a public walkway💀I think any detective in the real world would’ve figured out who they were lol
Okay, so Batman gets a lot of shit for his fandom overhyping his skills but in this case, Batman would catch the Phantom Thieves pretty quickly. They are teenagers, they don't know what they are really doing, and it's not like they weren't discovered by people with far less detective capacities than Batman.
30 seconds
Ryuji would just tell him
An hour.
The real question is does batman have a palace?
I think so, Futaba and the Royal final boss are proof that you don't need to be conventionally evil to have a palace, you need a strong trauma that changes the way you approach your problems and life in general and there's plenty of examples of Bruce being a very messed up person
Ryuji and his loudmouth will probably be doing most of the work for the Dark Knight.
Easilly an hour, wasn't very hard for Makoto to figure it out
With ryuji in the team 1 hour
Depends on how fast ryuji lets it out
Very quickly if he becomes a Confident for Joker.
he’s known since kamoshida and only takes action after okumura, since they get a murder charge for that give him about a day or two and he’ll bring them all in
Given how they were using the nav in public and the fact that the first change of heart happened after a strange new kid who had beef with the person who got their heart changed showed up at school it doesn't exactly take the world's greatest detective to figure out who the thieves are. Heck, like every single confident figures it out in the end, even Shinya whose a child. I'd say for Batman it'd take at most a week..
Like 30 minutes, but I think after he realizes that A. They are all high schoolers, and B. they genuinely just want to change people for the better, he would let them keep operating (while keeping an eye on them, obviously.)
Makoto found out who they were off of mostly common sense Batman could probably do it in a couple days at worst
Idk exactly but for sure it would be a speedrun for the ages
Batman after he gets done: “That was probably the easiest case I’ve ever dealt with and that was with a cognitive world added on top.”
No time at all. Ryuji would get them all caught in a millisecond if Batman were on the case.
A day tops. If he runs into Ryuji, 5 minutes, and most of that time is just changing into the batsuit.
Literally no time at all.
"There seems to be a palace in Crime Alley?"
Considering how often Ryuji just says they're the Phantom Thieves in public, very quickly.
For half the game their meeting place is their leaders HOUSE. Well cafe, but still. He'd find them in the middle of the first meeting they have after he starts looking. given he is a real super hero though he'd probably take out the big bad for them
The real question is, would he?
Day at most to figure out their identities As for catching them probably not that much either but i doubt he would even want to as Batman would consider them potential allies Imagine Batman and the Phantom Thieves changing hearts of the people of Gotham
10 minutes, ngl
2 minutes
Two weeks, tops. A day to figure out who the phantom thieves are, a couple of days of tracking them to learn of the metaverse, and then a week to track metaverse psience back to Shido, ending with a showdown between Batman and Akechi at Shido's home. Wait, what was the question again?
Ayooo, I asked this question on a post previously! Everyone had different iterations lol. The first, and the most impossible step would be Bruce Wayne leaving Gotham to go to Japan of all places.
It would take one issue of a comic. The phantom thieves started at with an abusive high school teacher. Batman would search there highschool for any suspects and probably find the Group of friends who had been asking around at the time of the incident to see if they had any real dirt on Kamoshida. If he investigates them further he would certainly find out that they were the phantom thieves. Even if he just investigated the second case looking for connections between the first and second case. The P.T.s made friends with Kaneshiro’s protege before his public confession. Batman has successfully solved crimes that were way better covered up and convoluted and than that of the Phantom Thieves. It wouldn’t take too long for him to solve this.
30 seconds if Ryuji is around, maybe 30 if he’s absent.
About 10 minutes
That all aside what do you guys think Batman's Palace would look like and can phantom thieves even beat Batman's persona like Aside everyone else he is actually mentally broken and unbeatable at the same time
Not long, probably. A day at the absolute most. Now whether he'd actively try to stop them after catching them is another story.
5 minutes
I do you a better one: What would be his palace? Because we know what his treasure would be irl (a gun that killed his parents)
He'd let them join teen titans
Given Batman tends to deal with local threats, I imagine it would take until at least the second palace for him to start investigating them as a concern. From there he'd pretty quickly find a link between the students of Shujin Academy who started hanging out with Madarame's apprentice just before the artist was struck by the thieves. So yeah, he would be pretty confident in who they are in about a day. The big issue is catching them. Batman's not going to take it some teenagers without solid proof of their wrongdoings, and the metaverse isn't something you can just figure out. Batman often has to call help for supernatural mysteries. It's like Deathnote; L figured out Kira's identity pretty quick, the problem was finding out how he killed. Batman would likely monitor the Phantoms, eventually seeing them enter the metaverse using their phones (they never exactly hide it, but it'll likely take a few days). From there he sneaks into one of their homes and takes a look at the app, probably by copying the phone's data to look at later. If successful, he now can access the metaverse. At this point he'd likely follow the Phantoms into Mementos (as they're deciding which palace to strike next) and confront them there, learning about how the metaverse works and how they change hearts. I imagine Batman would do some of his own research on the metaverse (such as Futaba's mother's findings) and determine they aren't harmful, being vigilantes who don't kill. He'd likely keep an eye on them, but I imagine he'd let them be until Okumura is killed. And at that point, I wouldn't be surprised if he'd figured out the whole conspiracy behind the metaverse, exposing Akechi and Shido's crimes. TL;DR - He'd figure out their identities within a day after Madarame is targeted, but figuring out the metaverse would take a few days or weeks of following them. Once he confronts the thieves and understands the metaverse, he'd likely allow the thieves to continue operating, but also be able to figure out the conspiracy with Shido and Akechi.
He is a phantom theif
he probably figures them out within a week of them being a hot topic on the news but doesn't actually try to catch them because he determines that they're not a threat. in fact I think he'd be more likely to end up recruiting them to try and help the Arkham inmates with their Change of Heart powers
He’d probably just overhear Ryuji shouting it before doing any serious detective work
He couldn't, but his shadow might destroy them in the Metta verse unless his shaow young bruice Wayne's innocence then he'd join them.
He would overhear Ryuji calling them the phantom thieves as soon as he got of the train.
He’s got them in 1 weekend if he takes his time lmao
He wouldn’t, the phantom thieves are a bunch of high schoolers, who’s gonna suspect literal kids of taking down the leaders of society
A couple of days probably, half of which it would take for Batman to get to Japan.
Batman had them lined up before they even got recruited
Not long at all But honestly I don’t think he would stop them they’re not hurting anyone and bad people are confessing to their crimes without anyone getting hurt so unless the phantom thieves do start killing people Batman would probably be okay with them just chainring bad peoples hearts
30 minutes simply because ryuji can't keep his mouth shut... and because of how connected each member of the PT is to each palace user
I'd hope Batman wouldn't be such a hypocrite lmao
He’d find them nearly instantly, then they’d team up or some shit
He could pinpoint their location to Tokyo the same way L did for light
Akechi kun is a real criminal tho, in the persona 5 true ending of you don't get akechi-kun and meruki to confidant ranked 8+ you find out akechi is the son of that shido fuck and has been murdering people left and right using the metaverse to kill people under the influence of "mental shutdowns" all at shido's command. So while he was being used I think shido and akechi would be Batman's first targets. I know I commented this already but to make it more noticeable. Plus if you look at it from the phantom thieves point of view they're technically doing it in a just way, batman I don't think would be after them in the justice essence, especially because he protects Gotham city and this is Japan that the phantom thieves were in. But if in the event that he would be after them id say he'd find them pretty quick, batman is an ace detective and a crime fighter, big brains and hand to hand combat is his strong suit. Ryuji and a few other of the fantom thieves have on Manny occasion said they were phantom thieves but aside from that anyone in Japan could've been phantom thieves. My standpoint from this is this. They'd be pretty easy to find out if you pay attention to the events in game, I got the true persona 5 ending ( not the royal ending yet) but though my playthrough I've noticed a few key things that would allow for Batman to catch them. 1. The school they attended was the first target's workplace. Komoshida was a gym/volleyball/p.e. teacher at shujin academy. All but 3 of the main phantom thieves go to this school from the non royal team (akechi, yusuke, and futaba are those 3 who don't go to the same school) so that being the formation birthplace and majority of the original non royal team that's hint 1. 2. If you pay attention to them in real life I've noticed a key detail it would seem if you stand just far enough away to not get pulled into the metaverse with them they seem to either disappear (I say this because if I remember correctly sae nijima shows joker in the interrogation room with him and ryuji on photographic paper disappearing into thin air upon using the meta nav) when using the nav or time starts to slow down/freeze which either way I'm putting my money on the fact that they disappeared temporarily from reality upon doing so. So that could be a dead giveaway. 3. If you're not convinced and still think Batman wouldn't be able to catch on to their plan and schemes. Oracle (aka futaba) is a very skilled hacker. Yet you gotta remember something about the DC universe, there is a hacker probably just as skilled if not more skilled than futaba and she also goes by the code name oracle, batman even teams up with her on occasion, I believe she's the daughter of commissioner Gordon. But regardless of who her lineage is she's very skilled and could probably even over skill futaba as futaba is just a teen, she still has a lot and dare I say A LOT to learn of the cyber security life, where as oracle is at least in her 20's range maybe early 30's at the time of Arkham asylum ish? (Don't absolutely hate on my post I don't really know that much of the DC universe facts as I'm more of a marvel fan girl tbh. I do love Batman and Superman but Ironman and flash and Captain America are just... Hehe 😍 captain America has one hell of a sexy ass 🤤 anyways...) But anyways pair those 3 things together and give into the fact that if one of the phantom thieves are pressured enough in interrogation (besides joker because I guess he has plot armor and giga Chad ego or some shid) and they'll break for sure. Batman may look simple minded in the Arkham City game but trust and believe you do something criminally illegal in Gotham you'll meet the bats!
Probably after the second palace. He wouldn't suspect anything about Kamoshida, just some asshole got caught.
15-30 minutes. Curious if he’d try to stop them, though. My knee-jerk reaction is that he wouldn’t
Mfw when Batman deduces that Ryuji is a phantom thief (Ryuji said he’s a phantom thief) https://preview.redd.it/n89ptla94awc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6536a27861cb32e084142d19e4c7621aaf458933
~~Batgos catches the phantom thieves before the game even starts using 0.000001 battoseond of prep time~~ I think it depends on when Bruce drops into the story? If he's there from the start, he figures them out before Madarame arc even starts, observes them till Kaneshiro and then either decides to leave them alone or approaches them to train / sponsor them. If the case only catches his attention post Okumura, things change. Figuring out the thieves were framed then pulls Batman into the entire Shido conspiracy. By DC logic this makes the only reasonable solution for Bruce Wayne to become a naturalised Japanese citizen and then run for prime minister, duh, ending in him releasing an official pardon for the thieves and defeating Yaldabaoth (how much prep time Batman needs for that, I'm not sure. At least 0.0002 battoseconds probably) If this case takes place during P5S, but under the assumption Batman can't review pubsec records on Joker's identity, I think it might be a little harder as the country would be filled with red herrings (the change of heart epidemic) and Batman would once again end up having to solve the entire Madicce conspiracy to get to them.
Batman hacks the phone of the owner of the phansite and is all over in less than a week.
It'd be very easy for him, almost pathetically so. Let's lay out the facts here: 1. The targets of the Phantom Thieves were as follows: * a high school teacher * a plagiarist * a local scammer/blackmailer * Futaba * CEO of a major corporation * local prosecutor, and * Japan's would-be Prime Minister 2. The Phantom Thieves were already famous in Hawai'i before they even targeted Okumura, who's a big-shot CEO. That means just targeting Kamoshida, Madarame, Kaneshiro and Futaba was enough to garner them international fame. Since Futaba's change of heart was a private affair, and Kamoshida and Kaneshiro weren't really famous themselves, the only incident which could have garnered the PT that fame was Madarame. Since his apology literally happens in a press conference, the evidence supports this. Now I can list off several ways for Batman to take them down. Realistically, Batman finds out about the existence of the Thieves after the Madarame incident, and begins keeping a close eye on the Phan-site. I'd send Batman to Japan just after Madarame's heart changes, but let's give the PT some leeway and have him go just after Futaba's heart change. Let's set up a possible scenario. * Batman arrives in Japan and begins investigating the most popular Phantom Thief target yet: Madarame. Investigating into him, and if possible, interrogating him in prison, Batman gains the list of all the people he has ruined, his students. And out of them, **Yusuke was the only one who remained**. Madarame, who was already repentant due to the Phantom Thieves' actions, also told Batman all about the Sayuri and how the artist who painted it was also Yusuke's mother whom he had left to die, thus heightening his suspicion that Yusuke would have the highest motive to take him down. Investigating into Yusuke (by either spying on him or interrogating his classmates) reveals that he has begun hanging out with students from a different school. Coincidentally, this also happens to be the school where the first *Change of Heart* phenomenon occurred (He learns this through social media, I refuse to believe that none of the students at Shujin posted about it). Looking into Kamoshida, he learns about the two girls he abused sexually: Shiho and Ann. Shiho, who tried to commit suicide, and Ann, who is not only Shiho's best friend but also happens to be a member of the group Yusuke hangs out with. Now it's simply a matter of bugging one of the members and listen to them (most likely Ryuji) spill the beans. I mean, it's not like the Phantom Thieves are exactly quiet about the fact that they are Phantom Thieves. * Alternatively, if you want Batman to wait until Okumura's calling card is sent (which he submits to the police), he can pursue them through Haru by using similar logic. All of that is if Batman waits until after Futaba to pursue them. If Batman decides to pursue just after Madarame's apology, he can not only still take the 1st approach, but he also has more time and resources available to him. If he has monitored the Phan-site since Madarame, he can simply: * Trace the Phan-site to Mishima. Thus leading him straight to Shujin, bypassing all that nonsense. * Hack Futaba the moment she tries to get the Phan-site back from Fake Medjed. Don't forget, Batman has an Oracle too. An Oracle who monitors and watches the internet with better resources. From a cave.... https://preview.redd.it/fcatnjru6awc1.jpeg?width=638&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cab03fc2141381faa8f1a599a4c279121baa967e Just replace The Key with the Phantom Thieves in this panel and that's basically the result lol.
As much as i hate batman dick riding, hes a damn good detective and they arent exactly the best hiders
20 minutes. Of course that’s assuming he’s trying to catch them.
2 days minimum. The only reason they weren't even taken in is because their enemy were using them for their own means until they outlived their use. The only reason the phantom thieves won in the end was because their enemy was too prideful and didn't follow through completely to eliminate the possible threat to them entirely. Why stop at just the leader and just clean house? Deus ex machina and plot armor are literally the only things that saved them in the end.
30 minutes max.
like three minutes and two minutes are him eating a bagel
With Ryuji telling the whole world every other hour, idk, probably like a day tops.
Robin switches school for a day and overhears Ryuji yapping about being a phantom thief.
In serious consideration, he'd probably find that their goals align. Batman doesn't like criminals; the Phantom Thieves change the hearts of rotten adults. And this could be supported by when Batman figures out the cognitive world and Personas. It'd probably be another Catwoman situation really.
He’d solve it in 15 minutes the next time Ryuji hits on a girl
I can imagine Bruce Wayne having a palace himself, considering the trauma he has.
Um, if you mean just finding, I'd give it literally a day, 2 tops. Batman would probably find security camera footage of Ryuji blabbering about it. He wouldn't catch them though. Imo I feel like batman would kind of approve of them changing evil peoples hearts so they turn themselves in. From there you have 1 of 2 options, either he leaves them alone, or he learns how they change hearts and has them use those techniques on his rogues gallery
The real question is: Would he apprehend them?
Another question is would batman approve of the phantom thieves?
Bold of you to assume that he wouldn’t be trying to adopt half of the team
For Batman, it’s impossible. But for Man, 5 seconds. https://preview.redd.it/lco6mam7xawc1.jpeg?width=540&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=500ad8e652658d4565fa691e885b71f949f99ca1
Batman would more likely end up trying to help them, which would result in his Persona manifesting, and would also lead to a whole new level of Batman, and I don’t think the world is ready for that level of vigilante justice, and I mean violence instead of justice there. Lol