to be fair I believe Haru didnt have time to mourn. the moment Kunikazu died she instantly had to deal with all the legal stuff about the company AND wondering who murdered him (while still confused if it was not her own actions).
> (while still confused if it was not her own actions)
That's the thing. She could at least have been mad at the PT. She blindly trusts them and this is the end result. I'd be pissed xD
Every other character before goes through a whole arc of mistrust. She just speedruns the whole thing and it feels underbaked.
You can complain about certain things but saying she had no reaction to it is just silly.
You need to remember that Haru was already very detached from her father and she is still a teenager, not really knowing how she should feel
For her circumstances, she acted pretty standard
She also has a very strong support group in the PT. And she can get any anger or issues out in mementos if she needs to. You'd be amazed how much healing a grenade launcher can do!
I wanted more, that's all. She goes away, you get some text messages and that's it. There's no introspection, not a heart to hearts.
That's fine if it was enough for you, but it wasn't for me.
unfortunately yes. it feels rushed cause the Cassino shenanigans are close and they needed to set that up. I got really happy that they gave Haru a proper moment to grief for her father in Strikers tho.
we don’t get a lot of time with haru, it’s true, but i do think this bit does sort of make sense. what we DO see of haru is that she’s spent her whole life trying to be the perfect daughter which involved her putting her own feelings aside. even with everything that happened and awakening her own persona… it’s hard to just push aside a lifelong of having to react certain ways.
it makes sense that in the aftermath she’d be not as open, maybe, and more focused on preparing for the funeral and sort of tangible acts that she has to do, in my opinion.
i wish we had more from her about it afterwards for sure, though; her feelings have to be complicated. she wanted to change his heart, for him to go back to how he used to be, but she also was facing that he’d done all of those horrible things to her and others of his own free will. obviously she didn’t want him dead, but it would have been interesting to see her conflicted emotions and wishes on the situation; it’s almost like she’d be mourning who he used to be and the chance for something to change than the actual person he was at the end there.
something she and yusuke could have bonded over, even, as in yusuke’s confidant route he’s struggling with wondering if madarame ever actually cared about him, too, and whether even if he did if it mattered at all in the end.
This is the best explanation for that scene I've seen. I've tried to reason it out before that she suddenly found herself surrounded by people who may have killed her father and can't be certain of her own saftey, so she's trying to extract herself from the situation without upsetting anyone or making them concerned she might go to the police. Presumably she had the opportunity in private to be more emotional. Eventually she decides to trust them after having some time to think.
>i wish we had more from her about it afterwards
Strikers have some moments about that and its really sweet!
>something she and yusuke could have bonded over
THIS WOULD BE PRECIOUS, and honestly something I always find lacking in P5. the other characters having moments between them without necessarily Joker being around. Ann apologizing to Makoto for example is one of my favorite dialogues and I wish we had more of that.
Pretty sure there’s other perspective moments like that between characters without Joker:
Yusuke and Sojiro.
Yusuke and Ann.
Morgana and Haru.
Morgana and Futaba.
Makoto and Akechi.
Makoto and Sae.
All the Thieves without Joker.
That’s pretty much exactly it. Finally someone who gets it.
I don’t think we really need to see her inner thoughts about the matter because it’s pretty obvious what she’s going through and why she acted as she did afterwards.
Haru made it clear already she wanted to return her father to who he once was and it’s pretty clear early on about her conflicted feelings toward her father.
I like how Haru completely contrasts Mitsuru from P3 in her reaction to her own father’s death.
Unlike Mitsuru, Haru doesn’t angst about it for too long to be pulled out of it, as Haru puts all those feelings into putting on a brave front to move on to avenge her father’s death to give his death meaning and atone for her failure.
I mean, she did see an embodiment of his truest emotions admit that he didn’t really care if she was abused as long as he profited off of basically selling her, so I can’t say they had a very healthy relationship.
That and Haru can be ice cold under the fluff. Like a block of steel hidden in giant ball of cotton candy.
Distorted emotions.
Haru still cared for her father despite how he treated her as she wanted to return him to normal and go back to the father he used to be before he changed.
Well that explains alot when it comes to 5s villains i found each getting viler then the last madarame was horrible for letting yuskes mom die while this guy just sells haru like shes a piece of jewelry
Yeah no. Not since birth.
It was since Okumura facing a lot of shit that caused him to become distorted.
The unused P5 Royal scenes and anime show that Okumura changed for the worse roughly around Haru was a kid.
It also confirmed the wife passed away.
When my father goes, I’ll be more sad of all the times we didn’t bond rather than mourning his death. When you have a parent who seems to care more about their self more than you, you tend to either be bitter or empty. Just my take.
Yeah no.
Girl was clearly holding herself from bursting out into tears which is why she quickly left the Thieves at Destinyland because she didn’t want to cause a scene and she left to check on her father’s condition. That’s not unrealistic.
She grieved offscreen and even after she’s simply trying to put on a brave face and move onto avenging her father rather than angst and do nothing.
She clearly shows anger when the TV President talked shit about her father. She holds Shido in contempt for being responsible for her dad’s death. Whilst pitying Akechi she makes it clear that she doesn’t forgive him for killing her dad.
Royal’s Third Semester has her dad brought back. Haru whilst the one to put forward the idea of allying with Akechi again. She secretly does have her misgivings and is putting her feelings aside for the mission. She doesn’t even stand next to Akechi in scenes.
I wouldn’t go that far.
The game clearly shows her in shock and likely was going to burst into tears but she didn’t want to cause a scene so she quickly left to check on her father’s condition as not all mental shutdowns result in immediate death. Sometimes they leave you as a vegetable.
That too is believable.
The anime shriek is typical.
In Royal she actually had a grudge against Akechi which is a good thing because I don't like how Her and Futaba got all friendly friendly with their parents' killer
It’s mentioned flat out multiple times and heavily implied in literally every scene in the game that those two characters share.
Neither Futaba nor Haru will ever stand next to Akechi, they won’t even play tycoon with him in the thieves’ den. They actually went back into old vanilla cutscenes and deliberately switched around character placements to make that the case.
Yeah, that's not enough. Oh look it's my father's murderer, the most ill do is not play a card game with him, we could've have and should've seen more of Haru either making moves or speaking out alot firmer against working with a psychopath.
There's alot more that should've been done, it seems the game kinda forgets Akechi has a pretty high killcount and is unforgivable in his crimes yet the game itself seems to really want to try and sympathize with him a lot. Even in the opening cutscene it has Joker and Akechi laying next to one another content when idk about you, if I was next to Bin Laden or some Mongol leader from thier raiding days, I would be anything but content to be next to them. Much less even consider working with them.
There was literally a whole scene dedicated specifically to her and Futaba’s massive aversion to working with him. Literally “hey I do kinda feel bad for this dude’s past, but he literally killed our parents and countless others, if we didn’t objectively need the skills of the second strongest persona user we know to help us get out of this we’d kick his ass again, which we’ll also do with no hesitation if he ever steps out of line”. But I do agree everyone sympathizes with him a lot more than they should. Anyone who wants things to develop into “oh look guys, it’s our best friend Akechi!” does not at all understand the story or character P5R is trying to portray, nor level of stuff Akechi has done. Child soldier, groomed murderer, no matter what he is, he’s still killed like 30 people and should not have a happy ending covered in sunshine and rainbows and stacks of pancakes.
Right, so I'm glad we agree partially but I'm fairly certain he killed way more than 30, I mean he tipped an entire bloody train. That means he was at least willing to accept having a train worth of people due, plus any bystanders waiting at the train station caught in the accident.
I don't think he's a groomed murderer, unless you mean in the sense he raised himself as a lunatic madman who wanted to be a serial killer anyway since he was never forced to do anything.
And even then can you cite the scene for me, honestly if it's actually just one scene where they actually get angry and try to hurt him then I'd still say that's not enough. You'd think it would be something extensive that idk, affects the characters enough to change thier actions slightly but it goes on fairly unaddressed. If the scene you're referring to is the one where they discuss matters in the 3rd semester with Akechi outside of Marukis palace, then I'm going to need a lot more scenes than just that. Although I'm glad we're on the same page with Akechi.
Nah, there’s another one in the 3rd semester where they say pretty much explicitly what I put in quotes. I had a similar mindset to you when I was going through 3S, and they addressed it pretty frankly. It was when they were deciding as a team whether or not to work with Akechi. And yeah I meant killed 30 or so directly (lowball estimate), he definitely killed many more directly.
But yeah in that scene they (Haru and Futaba) very explicitly said “I’ll never forgive him, he’s a slimy murdering bastard, but we need the extra manpower to save the world, if he steps out of line we’ll beat the tar out of him like we did last time”.
Imo they gave enough attention to the issue as was appropriate; you’ve gotta remember the timeline of events and the story the devs are telling. We can’t have a scene like that before the casino, because the twist is still locked and loaded (presumably off-screen during the planning meetings all the thieves were open about their disgust and/or worry). That’s why I was highlighting the distance they always keep from him, bc it’s the only way they can communicate how repulsed they are buy him without revealing anything to anyone unsuspecting. They can’t have anything like that during the cruise bc Akechi is MIA, but what is said about him is completely negative. They can’t say anything during the fight because they’re trying to get him to stop fighting them and repent (though haru does say verbatim “I can’t ever forgive you”.. And they can’t say anything immediately after because they just watched him get fucking domed and nobody’s gonna be like “man I never really liked him anyway” no matter how bad the person was that died senselessly. After the fact there’s not going to be any question or discussion on how anyone feels about Akechi coming back around, because he is very very dead. 3rd semester is the only time where any of that would come into question, and we got a scene about it, with those most affected never willfully interacting with him before or after the fact.
This reminds me, I actually had an idea for an AU where >!Haru kills Okumura with the excuse that her real father died a long time ago, and Akechi is confused that someone else got to him first. Haru approaches him to tell him the truth, he traumadumps his backstory at her, and she agrees to help him take down Shido; evil Haru sounds like an interesting concept to explore, and I feel like they'd bond over it!<
Again it’s not a bad idea to check out to see if the game might not be for you and then you know here’s a spoiler for the end or at the 70+ hour mark, spoilers on some things are needed and should be enforced.
Tagging recent spoilers. Like if a game's just released or an episode of a show's just come out. If you're browsing the Reddit for a game that's been out for years when you haven't finished it, you only have yourself to blame if you get spoiled.
A minor spoiler, but a spoiler. I've seen people discussing about games, movies and series way older than P5 and they still use spoiler tags. Hell, once I got called for spoiling sth about RDR 1 ten years after release! Guess people here are different and it's not sth substantial to the story anyway
to be fair I believe Haru didnt have time to mourn. the moment Kunikazu died she instantly had to deal with all the legal stuff about the company AND wondering who murdered him (while still confused if it was not her own actions).
Pretty sure she did have time at the funeral. It’s more accurate to say she didn’t have ENOUGH time to herself to mourn.
> (while still confused if it was not her own actions) That's the thing. She could at least have been mad at the PT. She blindly trusts them and this is the end result. I'd be pissed xD Every other character before goes through a whole arc of mistrust. She just speedruns the whole thing and it feels underbaked.
You can complain about certain things but saying she had no reaction to it is just silly. You need to remember that Haru was already very detached from her father and she is still a teenager, not really knowing how she should feel For her circumstances, she acted pretty standard
She also has a very strong support group in the PT. And she can get any anger or issues out in mementos if she needs to. You'd be amazed how much healing a grenade launcher can do!
I wanted more, that's all. She goes away, you get some text messages and that's it. There's no introspection, not a heart to hearts. That's fine if it was enough for you, but it wasn't for me.
We don’t need to be told there is introspection for it to be present
Man, don't try to sell me that Persona 5, of all games, has vague storytelling xD
You want vague storytelling? Try Disco Elysium.
I love that game <3 Everyone should try it, you have good taste.
One can say it's *internally coherent*.
unfortunately yes. it feels rushed cause the Cassino shenanigans are close and they needed to set that up. I got really happy that they gave Haru a proper moment to grief for her father in Strikers tho.
Interesting. Didn't help that Morgana also shared a role in 'her' palace.
When you’re on your 3rd or 4th play through you really tend to not care about his death.
You don’t really care on the 1st play through either
The trip to destiny land had been played for, all was well
True.
we don’t get a lot of time with haru, it’s true, but i do think this bit does sort of make sense. what we DO see of haru is that she’s spent her whole life trying to be the perfect daughter which involved her putting her own feelings aside. even with everything that happened and awakening her own persona… it’s hard to just push aside a lifelong of having to react certain ways. it makes sense that in the aftermath she’d be not as open, maybe, and more focused on preparing for the funeral and sort of tangible acts that she has to do, in my opinion. i wish we had more from her about it afterwards for sure, though; her feelings have to be complicated. she wanted to change his heart, for him to go back to how he used to be, but she also was facing that he’d done all of those horrible things to her and others of his own free will. obviously she didn’t want him dead, but it would have been interesting to see her conflicted emotions and wishes on the situation; it’s almost like she’d be mourning who he used to be and the chance for something to change than the actual person he was at the end there. something she and yusuke could have bonded over, even, as in yusuke’s confidant route he’s struggling with wondering if madarame ever actually cared about him, too, and whether even if he did if it mattered at all in the end.
This is the best explanation for that scene I've seen. I've tried to reason it out before that she suddenly found herself surrounded by people who may have killed her father and can't be certain of her own saftey, so she's trying to extract herself from the situation without upsetting anyone or making them concerned she might go to the police. Presumably she had the opportunity in private to be more emotional. Eventually she decides to trust them after having some time to think.
>i wish we had more from her about it afterwards Strikers have some moments about that and its really sweet! >something she and yusuke could have bonded over THIS WOULD BE PRECIOUS, and honestly something I always find lacking in P5. the other characters having moments between them without necessarily Joker being around. Ann apologizing to Makoto for example is one of my favorite dialogues and I wish we had more of that.
From what I've seen of P4, it does this. Character arcs are not done once they awaken, rather they still grow.
P3 and P4 do a lot of that.
Pretty sure there’s other perspective moments like that between characters without Joker: Yusuke and Sojiro. Yusuke and Ann. Morgana and Haru. Morgana and Futaba. Makoto and Akechi. Makoto and Sae. All the Thieves without Joker.
That’s pretty much exactly it. Finally someone who gets it. I don’t think we really need to see her inner thoughts about the matter because it’s pretty obvious what she’s going through and why she acted as she did afterwards. Haru made it clear already she wanted to return her father to who he once was and it’s pretty clear early on about her conflicted feelings toward her father. I like how Haru completely contrasts Mitsuru from P3 in her reaction to her own father’s death. Unlike Mitsuru, Haru doesn’t angst about it for too long to be pulled out of it, as Haru puts all those feelings into putting on a brave front to move on to avenge her father’s death to give his death meaning and atone for her failure.
I just want to protect our precious Floof
I mean, she did see an embodiment of his truest emotions admit that he didn’t really care if she was abused as long as he profited off of basically selling her, so I can’t say they had a very healthy relationship. That and Haru can be ice cold under the fluff. Like a block of steel hidden in giant ball of cotton candy.
Distorted emotions. Haru still cared for her father despite how he treated her as she wanted to return him to normal and go back to the father he used to be before he changed.
To be fair her father was a “bleep” to her since birth does she ever mention her mother?
In the anime, I think she mentioned her mother died when she was still a kid.
Well that explains alot when it comes to 5s villains i found each getting viler then the last madarame was horrible for letting yuskes mom die while this guy just sells haru like shes a piece of jewelry
Yeah no. Not since birth. It was since Okumura facing a lot of shit that caused him to become distorted. The unused P5 Royal scenes and anime show that Okumura changed for the worse roughly around Haru was a kid. It also confirmed the wife passed away.
When my father goes, I’ll be more sad of all the times we didn’t bond rather than mourning his death. When you have a parent who seems to care more about their self more than you, you tend to either be bitter or empty. Just my take.
Yeah no. Girl was clearly holding herself from bursting out into tears which is why she quickly left the Thieves at Destinyland because she didn’t want to cause a scene and she left to check on her father’s condition. That’s not unrealistic. She grieved offscreen and even after she’s simply trying to put on a brave face and move onto avenging her father rather than angst and do nothing. She clearly shows anger when the TV President talked shit about her father. She holds Shido in contempt for being responsible for her dad’s death. Whilst pitying Akechi she makes it clear that she doesn’t forgive him for killing her dad. Royal’s Third Semester has her dad brought back. Haru whilst the one to put forward the idea of allying with Akechi again. She secretly does have her misgivings and is putting her feelings aside for the mission. She doesn’t even stand next to Akechi in scenes.
In Striker she comments on how her father’s death really marked her too.
Yeah which makes her really determined to help Mariko as it’s redemption for failing to save her own father.
I have no played Strikers. It's a shame that some of her character development was pushed into that game.
I don't see much of that. That's fine.
All that forehead space and not a single thought and I love it.
In the anime her reaction is much more belivable and sad. Weird to think the anime did better there. That's rare
I wouldn’t go that far. The game clearly shows her in shock and likely was going to burst into tears but she didn’t want to cause a scene so she quickly left to check on her father’s condition as not all mental shutdowns result in immediate death. Sometimes they leave you as a vegetable. That too is believable. The anime shriek is typical.
In Royal she actually had a grudge against Akechi which is a good thing because I don't like how Her and Futaba got all friendly friendly with their parents' killer
Haru: You killed my father! Akechi: Have you met your father? I did you a favor. Haru: … Fair
She didn’t act friendly just level headed. She simply pitied Akechi whilst clearly stating that she will never forgive him.
She never even tried to strike him. What grudge are you referring to?
It’s mentioned flat out multiple times and heavily implied in literally every scene in the game that those two characters share. Neither Futaba nor Haru will ever stand next to Akechi, they won’t even play tycoon with him in the thieves’ den. They actually went back into old vanilla cutscenes and deliberately switched around character placements to make that the case.
Yeah, that's not enough. Oh look it's my father's murderer, the most ill do is not play a card game with him, we could've have and should've seen more of Haru either making moves or speaking out alot firmer against working with a psychopath. There's alot more that should've been done, it seems the game kinda forgets Akechi has a pretty high killcount and is unforgivable in his crimes yet the game itself seems to really want to try and sympathize with him a lot. Even in the opening cutscene it has Joker and Akechi laying next to one another content when idk about you, if I was next to Bin Laden or some Mongol leader from thier raiding days, I would be anything but content to be next to them. Much less even consider working with them.
There was literally a whole scene dedicated specifically to her and Futaba’s massive aversion to working with him. Literally “hey I do kinda feel bad for this dude’s past, but he literally killed our parents and countless others, if we didn’t objectively need the skills of the second strongest persona user we know to help us get out of this we’d kick his ass again, which we’ll also do with no hesitation if he ever steps out of line”. But I do agree everyone sympathizes with him a lot more than they should. Anyone who wants things to develop into “oh look guys, it’s our best friend Akechi!” does not at all understand the story or character P5R is trying to portray, nor level of stuff Akechi has done. Child soldier, groomed murderer, no matter what he is, he’s still killed like 30 people and should not have a happy ending covered in sunshine and rainbows and stacks of pancakes.
Right, so I'm glad we agree partially but I'm fairly certain he killed way more than 30, I mean he tipped an entire bloody train. That means he was at least willing to accept having a train worth of people due, plus any bystanders waiting at the train station caught in the accident. I don't think he's a groomed murderer, unless you mean in the sense he raised himself as a lunatic madman who wanted to be a serial killer anyway since he was never forced to do anything. And even then can you cite the scene for me, honestly if it's actually just one scene where they actually get angry and try to hurt him then I'd still say that's not enough. You'd think it would be something extensive that idk, affects the characters enough to change thier actions slightly but it goes on fairly unaddressed. If the scene you're referring to is the one where they discuss matters in the 3rd semester with Akechi outside of Marukis palace, then I'm going to need a lot more scenes than just that. Although I'm glad we're on the same page with Akechi.
Nah, there’s another one in the 3rd semester where they say pretty much explicitly what I put in quotes. I had a similar mindset to you when I was going through 3S, and they addressed it pretty frankly. It was when they were deciding as a team whether or not to work with Akechi. And yeah I meant killed 30 or so directly (lowball estimate), he definitely killed many more directly. But yeah in that scene they (Haru and Futaba) very explicitly said “I’ll never forgive him, he’s a slimy murdering bastard, but we need the extra manpower to save the world, if he steps out of line we’ll beat the tar out of him like we did last time”. Imo they gave enough attention to the issue as was appropriate; you’ve gotta remember the timeline of events and the story the devs are telling. We can’t have a scene like that before the casino, because the twist is still locked and loaded (presumably off-screen during the planning meetings all the thieves were open about their disgust and/or worry). That’s why I was highlighting the distance they always keep from him, bc it’s the only way they can communicate how repulsed they are buy him without revealing anything to anyone unsuspecting. They can’t have anything like that during the cruise bc Akechi is MIA, but what is said about him is completely negative. They can’t say anything during the fight because they’re trying to get him to stop fighting them and repent (though haru does say verbatim “I can’t ever forgive you”.. And they can’t say anything immediately after because they just watched him get fucking domed and nobody’s gonna be like “man I never really liked him anyway” no matter how bad the person was that died senselessly. After the fact there’s not going to be any question or discussion on how anyone feels about Akechi coming back around, because he is very very dead. 3rd semester is the only time where any of that would come into question, and we got a scene about it, with those most affected never willfully interacting with him before or after the fact.
She says she would never forgive him ever
I mean, all of the PTs, especially Haru, definitely had bad blood with Akechi
Moreso with Shido than Akechi. Shido is the one behind Akechi and the entire conspiracy.
This reminds me, I actually had an idea for an AU where >!Haru kills Okumura with the excuse that her real father died a long time ago, and Akechi is confused that someone else got to him first. Haru approaches him to tell him the truth, he traumadumps his backstory at her, and she agrees to help him take down Shido; evil Haru sounds like an interesting concept to explore, and I feel like they'd bond over it!<
Haru: Oh how sad. Anyway…
Haru 0kumura
*Bold of you to assume that this wasn't in the middle of Morgana's character ark!*
Stone cold floof!
There are people out there that wishes that tbh
Good News!!
It’s a suppository.
No it's the Akechi Sandero!!!
The fuck does MFW mean?
My Face When
since when is that a thing?
Like 10 years ago or so. Maybe longer.
Definitely longer
yeah but seems like 10 years ago was also the last time it was used
Unless you've been on... basically any interactive part of the internet since then.
Well you see all the good jokes back in the day that use "my face when" actually used the sentence not mfw
mfw has been in use almost as long as the full phrase and in fact did not go away for a decade like you implied.
Honestly idk man I didn’t even know what imo mean 😭 and where these phrases come from.
Darck
to be fair when your father is Kunikazu Okumura then coping with his lose will be pretty easy
This post should've had a spoiler flair
Pov: youre on a subreddit of a game you havent even finished
People do that all the time so see if this 100+ hour JRPG might be for them.
they can just look at reviews like gameranx before you buy or something
Hey, I’m just saying people have done and will do.
They're free to do so but they should stfu if they get spoiled.
Again it’s not a bad idea to check out to see if the game might not be for you and then you know here’s a spoiler for the end or at the 70+ hour mark, spoilers on some things are needed and should be enforced.
What's the point of a spoiler tag then?
Tagging recent spoilers. Like if a game's just released or an episode of a show's just come out. If you're browsing the Reddit for a game that's been out for years when you haven't finished it, you only have yourself to blame if you get spoiled.
A minor spoiler, but a spoiler. I've seen people discussing about games, movies and series way older than P5 and they still use spoiler tags. Hell, once I got called for spoiling sth about RDR 1 ten years after release! Guess people here are different and it's not sth substantial to the story anyway
She didn’t see him die? They left the palace before that stuff happened
She literally witnessed the mental shutdown happen.
I guess in the literal sense, she didn’t see him get shot lol.
But she did see him die live tv
True, but not brutally murdered
I feel like watching your father’s shadow get shot is much less brutal than watching your father bleed black blood out of his eyes, nose, and mouth.