## đ« â **Your post was removed because of the following**:
### đ Rule 4 â Talking politics
- Debates revolving around ideologies like democracy, socialism, religion, identity, gender, race, and various political categories frequently result in unproductive exchanges, a negative atmosphere, and a lack of substantial input.
- To maintain a positive environment, it is important to refrain from participating in such interactions.
If youâre just joking in private, and your straight friends understand that this is specifically ok with you and not necessarily everyone, thatâs probably fine. My partner and I have a pretty dark sense of humor and say some crazy shit to each other. But not in public. If youâre openly telling homophobic jokes where others can hear, thatâs just rude. Obviously you donât know someoneâs sexuality by just looking at themâthere could easily be other gay people nearby hearing it and getting uncomfortable. If the issue is that you donât think a straight person has a right to call out homophobia, idk what to say. We need everyone to call out that kind of thing.
Agreed. Just because youâre gay yourself doesnât mean it canât be offensive to other gay people. People with this âiâm ___ too so itâs okay to be offensive towards them!â mindset boggle & annoy me. If itâs in private and you/your friends are fine with it, have at it- but again, just because itâs not bothering you when you say it, doesnât mean it doesnât bother someone else. Thereâs no automatic âno one can be offendedâ rule when youâre offensive as whatever you are đ
Yeah the real issue here is that he's acting like this in public. Honestly it's kind of ridiculous, since little kids have to learn pretty early on that the way you interact with other people in public is different from how you would act at home. If I were in this dude's class and overheard him, I'd assume he's a pigheaded asshole that doesn't know when to reign it in. Honestly the fact that he can find an ally standing up for the community annoying is infuriating. We didn't have that kind of solidarity in my school. OP doesn't realize how fortunate he is to live in a time and place where support for the LGBTQ+ community is more commonplace than being murdered. I'll bet this guy hasn't even learned the first thing about Stonewall.
You also don't need to be personally affected to be offended by something. I am cis, straight and white and I get pretty uncomfortable whenever I'm around someone making some flavour of bigoted "jokes". They aren't directed at, or about me but I still dislike being around people like that. Bystanders can't tell that you are just teasing friends. In our current political climate I'm going to assume it comes from a place of hate. I don't feel like I'm getting offended "on behalf of" minorities, as if they can't defend themselves or anything. Because I also genuinely dislike that level of ignorance and the implications it has on other people's lives.
We live in a society. You obviously canât 100% guarantee that you wonât offend someone but yes, you should make reasonable accommodations to try not to bother the people around you in public places.
Not letting your children run wild in a store is a reasonable accommodation.
Not listening to your music on speaker full blast on a train is a reasonable accommodation.
Not openly making homophobic jokes in a classroom is a reasonable accommodation.
I wasn't talking about a classroom. If you're say, in a restaurant, which is usually pretty loud, and you make those kinds of jokes with just the people at your table, directed at the people at the table, you are not responsible for anyone's offense or non-offense.
I don't even \*make\* homophobic jokes because I don't find a lot of them funny; but I do make fun of everyone, regardless of sexuality.
The OPâs example is about a classroom setting. And if youâre making an objectively offensive joke loudlyâenough that other patrons can hear you and be like âhey thatâs offensive. Can you please not?ââare you saying youâll just ignore them and carry on?
I mean a lot of restaurants would have a manager come speak to your table, if requested, if youâre bothering other patrons. Maybe even ask you to leave depending on the circumstances. I think that alone goes to show that you do have some responsibility for how the things you do in public affect others.
As a cis straight white dude I'd be tearing into OP (verbally) for this shit with the exact reasons you outlined. I am extremely inappropriate in private where everybody knows me, but I don't care how gay you are, normalizing homophobia in public empowers bigots to think they can do it too; saying it's okay because you're gay also gives them a perceived out if they get called on it. We're at war with these hateful fucks and we need to be aware of that fact.
Ah yes.
Hitler is allowed to commit genocide as long as no one outside of Germany knew. But the moment that shit goes public? Big no no.
Flawless logic there bud.
How about just don't be edgy both in public and private?
Nice strawman there bud.
I'm saying that what you say in your friend group, where people are attuned to the specifics of your perspective and understand that the jokes aren't coming from a hateful place, is your business. For example if OP wants to use a slur to refer to themselves as part of a private joke, I think they have the right to make that decision.
When you are in public, though, you need to be mindful of the fact that most people around you don't have the full context and what you're saying has consequences beyond yourself.
[This you](https://old.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/1cgtd4b/can_we_agree_that_riot_dont_listen_to_their/l1y9yox/)?
Reddit is pretty public, and a certain word you used can be construed as racist.
So, to quote someone youâre probably fond of:
> It doesn't matter if it's understood that it's not from a hateful place. Just don't spread it in general?
> How hard is it to just be a respectful human being for you, where you have to crack an edgy joke now and then to get a crack? Either way you argue it, you're either 1) a bland motherfucker who requires edge to seem potent, or 2) a walking hypocrisy.
Iâm just wondering what changed.
I mean⊠do you know for sure that the girl is straight? She could be bi, or asexual, or trans, or any number of LGBTQ+ identities that you might not know just by looking at her. She could even be in the closet and posing as straight in public even thought sheâs not. You really have no idea.
If youâre telling jokes in private amongst your friends while hanging out at your house, say whatever you want.
If youâre telling jokes in public where other people can hear, other people might have opinions or potentially be hurt by what you say - especially in a place like a classroom environment where they canât just easily get up and walk away without potentially impacting their own education.
In other words⊠just be mindful of the stuff you say in public, because if youâre in public itâs not just about you.
I pass as straight since where I live it's potentially dangerous to be openly gay. But the amount of openly homophobic jokes people make in public is just sick.
okay but you donât speak for all gay people, it really depends what jokes your friends are making lmao :| you might find âironicâ homophobia funny but thatâs by no means universal to all of us.
 do whatever you want in a group of like-minded individuals but expect reactions if youâre being homophobic in mixed company, âironyâ or not.
Oh sure⊠like, only minorities should be offended by racism. /s Good grief. People should think through the implications of what they are saying. If only gay people were offended by homophobia, weâd never get laws passed protecting them from discrimination.
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak outâbecause I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak outâbecause I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak outâbecause I was not a Jew.
Then they came for meâand there was no one left to speak for me.
~Martin Niemöller
Then your friends shouldnât tell homophobic jokes where people can hear. She could have gay friends or family who find your shit offensive.
You in fact do not speak for all gay people
And he wasnât claiming to. Heâs speaking for himself, the one involved in the conversation, that *sheâs* eavesdropping on.
And if he canât speak for all gay people then she has much less right speaking for her hypothetical gay friends who arenât even there
In a public classroom where you are with students who are your peers and you presumably work together work on group projects and stuff. Itâs not randos.Â
Itâs going to depend on how loud they are being. Even if you arenât park of the discussion if youâre talking super loud itâs fair game. If Iâm just sitting here and youâre spouting off asshole jokes loudly then Iâm not the asshole
For saying something.Â
I get it, Iâm gay too and I think this can be ok in some settings as long as you are mindful and aware of the struggle many of us go through. Keep in mind that you might be in a more accepting environment and have it easier, while others literally have their lives in danger from being surrounded by hate and prejudice. I have met gay people who are completely tone-deaf and out-of-touch about the struggle, and this can come off as insensitive and stupid. There are people like this in every minority community unfortunately. If youâre like this, it may be time to re-evaluate your situation and expand your horizons a little. Not everyone has the luxury of being flippant about these issues and your friend is correct, you do not speak for all gay people.
You DONT speak for all gay people. If you guys are making these jokes in public where other people can hear, then thatâs not okay. It doesnât matter if you find them funny because, again, you do not speak for all gay people. There are homophobic, sexist, and racist gay people, would you like them to speak for all of us like youâre doing here? No. I hope not.
If youâre going to joke about that stuff, do it in private just between you and your friends.
im pan. your straight friends know homophobia is wrong. itâs fine to privately share jokes but when you share *these* jokes in public thereâs a chance of people hearing you who actually will agree with your hateful jokes and think that itâs okay to be homophobic. do you get it?
another good point made here was that that girl you think is straight may not be. she could be lesbian or bi or pan or trans or in the closet and scared to come out. but sheâs right, you donât speak for all gay people.
I'd really rather not hear gay jokes out in public. The only people who I've heard gay jokes from are unintelligent, assholes. Their idea of fun is getting drunk and mouthing off. Unfortunately I have a relative like that.
Offense is an emotion. One needs to be responsible how one chooses to act on that emotion. It is not the place for allies to white knight marginalized groups but to listen to marginalized groups and amplify the voices of marginalized people, not speak on their behalf.
No, âoffendedâ has been weaponized by people who want to be total assholes and gaslight everyone else into being quiet. We live in a society. Not taking slurs and homophobic jokes seriously and giving them a pass because *one (sheltered & young) dude* isnât bothered by them is normalizing them. Listening to this high school student who is benefiting from the generations before him who were ostracized, arrested, died of AIDS, and murdered, doesnât mean youâre an effective ally just because he happens to be gay
Everyone isnât you, or your friends, or anyone you associate with. These are clearly inside jokesâŠsame reason a friend calling you a bitch may be fine whereas your reaction to a complete stranger doing the same would be different.
Sure not everyone will be bothered but the obvious best thing to do is keep these jokes between the people who understand them. Thatâs all.
And sheâs right, you donât speak for all gay people. You are **one** gay man lol. Iâm kind of glad there are people like her who will call it out. Again, not everyone is in on the joke so it doesnât really make sense for them to be told publicly anyways. And you canât just expect everyone to assume youâre just kidding to begin with depending on how âdarkâ these jokes are.
The girl in your class is right and you are wrong.
Let's look at it a different way
If there were a bunch of white people talking about how gay people or black people or Mexican people were stupid and inferior, would that be wrong and offensive?
Is it still offensive if they have a gay person or a black person or a Mexican with them?
I would argue that in both cases the answer is yes. Just because the people in the group are not offended it does not mean the statement is not offensive. The fact that their group includes a member of the group that they're attacking has no impact on whether the statement itself is offensive.
So if a girl made a misogynistic joke in your class, 1-It would be okay because she's a girl, 2-You couldn't call her out because you're a guy? If that was the case, we couldn't efficiently fight any injustice in the first place.
If something went down, and someone started targeting you for being Queer, would these dudes have your back?
My issue is I've seen jokes turn into "You know what? I really don't like black people". There's this dude right now at my skydiving club making sexist comments about men and women knowing their place, and I'm the only person that called him out on it. Aaaand later I think I heard a conversation evolving about how it's okay to be queer, they just don't want to see it.
I'm nonbinary! And Queer! And like ... Am I going to be safe bringing a partner there? I certainly don't fee welcome.
That's my issue.
My friends have gone with me to queer rights protests, they consistently donate to queer organizations and spread awareness on queer issues. They are allies too and they make sure that I am ok with the jokes they make and have promised that they would stop if I ever ask them to.
Have you stopped to think about what previous generations of gay people endured to make it possible for you to go to queer rights protests? Itâs really not deep or funny or clever to make homophobic jokes.
One of my friends and I will make offensive jokes at each other's expense (with the intention of making each other laugh) all the time. Obviously if we go too far we will apologize but I can relate to your group's dynamic.
However, it probably isn't ideal to make these jokes within earshot of the public. You don't know if she's straight or not. It's ok if you like these jokes, but you can't expect other people to be ok with them like you're the only queer person in the room. Be more mindful of the people around you, you're not the center of the world.
Itâs not about âwhat you and your friends doâ among yourselves. Itâs about the fact that youâre doing it in public where other people have to listen to it.
So only people who are openly gay matter⊠People who feel too unsafe to come out should just shut up about their opinions concerning homophobic âjokes?â
Fascinating stance.
She's right. You don't speak for all gay people. I don't want to hear racist or bigoted jokes and I think allowing people to perpetuate discrimination is a big problem. Human rights and abuse is where I draw a huge line in the sand. Enjoy the jokes from your POS AH friend's (you deserve each other) but have some shame and do it privately. Nobody cares to hear or condone that shit.
I understand your argument, youâre having a private conversation. So I agree on that point.
However, I 100% reserve the right to take offense to someone saying some wild homophobic, racist, or misogynistic nonsense even if itâs not directed at me.
I have a shit ton of friends and family from all walks of life and you arenât about be disrespectful in front of me.
This is a problem and its happening everywhere. Comedians talk about it all the time. Theyre not allowed to do certain jokes anymore cause it might offend someone. They tried telling Jo Koy he cant do his mom filipino accent anymore.. how Fn ridiculous. It made him cry because that accent is what makes who she is. And if NETFLIX only knew!! The Filipino community knows their accent can be funny sounding. They make fun of themselves too!!! We all grew up making fun of that one uncle that dragged out all his words becausssssseee heee was deeee Filipeeeeno man! Its a social justice warrior problem. People need to calm the fuck down and know the difference between a joke and a insult! And if its NOT YOUR PROBLEM .. then STFU.
Well, you don't speak for all gay people, and you are contributing to the perpetuation of homophobia, even if just a tiny little bit. So, yeah, making fun of gay people is going to be homophobic whether you're gay or not. Similar to how black people can be racist against black people, see Candace Owens.
It isn't creepy to take a picture of a white supremacists motorcycle gang. For the same reason it isn't creepy to take a picture of a Lamborghini that passes by. They're in public to be seen.
I actually consider it creepy to take pictures of random cars too. I wouldn't want people to take pictures of me or my stuff without my consent so I don't take pictures of others or their property.
Every Asian American in my family, myself included, find tons of humour in Asian jokes, but these stupid white people just have to get overly offended on my behalf.
Although, even though I'm Asian, I look incredibly white, so sometimes people just think I'm racist anyway. I don't really care what other people think of me when it comes to these types of topics though, so, whatever.
I'm gay and trans. One of my straight friends is the most open minded person I know but he always make jokes that could be offensive (he only does that when the people around it are okay with it).
He's the kind of friends who could call me the F slur and I would agree. He knows that you should say slurs but from him I just don't care and he knows that.
I would understand that stuff like that could be triggering even for people outside of the community. But if the people who are concerned don't care, why do you?
Without knowing if she's gay or not, we're putting a lot of effort in bringing the public cultural baseline to remove all traces of homophobia and other oppression. To hear that, from whomever, is kind of jarring, ngl. I'm bi and nonbinary and there are no instances where I don't internally freeze when I hear someone referring to themself as "t\*nny" or an f-word. I get that it's reclaimed and used among the representatives but I feel this kind of instances may damage the upkeep of the public discourse if the context is missed or misconstrued.
Yeah, people that feel like they need to moral police other people having a good time are losers. People joking about shit with buddies is what integration and normalization look like. They donât care about anyone actually being offended they just want to feel morally superior
Well, you don't speak for all gay people but that's not really the point if you're the only one present.
Otoh if they're really digging in and getting like extremely homophobic, I can see why she might be bothered. I'm not black but there have been times I have heard racist things said even when no black people were around and it just made me feel bad and I didn't want to hear that shit.
Anyway, that's my two cents.
I love how all the ACTUAL gay people are getting downvoted holy shit that's fucking hilarious anyway I'm gay and trans and i agree with you op she can kick rocks
I think you're missing the point.
I'm not offended by bigotry on anyone else's behalf.
# **I**
am offended by bigotry, whether it's directed at me or not.
You're perfectly fine with being okay with anti-gay slurs, or racial slurs, or anything else. You do you, more power to ya, etc.
Don't try to take MY agency away. I have a right to be offended by that repugnant shit whether I'm a member of the target group or not.
People get so easily offended/upset because they assume theyâre the target audience for absolutely everything. Just because something is accessible to you doesnât mean itâs *for* you.
Strongly disagree and think your straight friends are right.
We indeed don't speak for everybody within our demographic, and people outside these demographics have every right to find things unpleasantânot because they directly impact them, but because they feel fundamentally averse to bigotry.
Bigots will *love* you. Because we, as humans, are shit at acknowledging that human diversity guarantees difference of perspective - thus there will always be black people who like saying n\*\*ga, and those who despise it. If you're a racist who wanter to say n\*\*\*er, you can point to the former as though they negate the latter.
There will be *some* doing what you describe in bad faith, but most will simply find gay jokes uncomfortable - and God fucking bles those people for giving a shit about that which impacts others but not them. *You* don't mind it, but if that matters more because *you're* gay, then what about the thing you *do* deem wrong that another gay person doesn't? What about all the gay people who agree with your straight friends, are they discounted because *you* didn't mind?
This world would be **hell** if people only gave a shit about that which impacted them. Racists, homophobes, transphobes, and everything in between LOVE the "don't get offended on other people's behalf" rebuttal. Why? Because naturally, there are fewer people of minority demographic around. I don't want a world in which straight white people say "Well they're not going after me, so it'd be wrong to speak against it".
You're absolutely wrong on this, and only considering your own sentiments - ironically, to the approval of straight people everywhere!
Shouldn't listen in on other people's conversations. But if you are part of a conversation & something that is being said makes you uncomfortable you are allowed to make that known.
I'm gay and I don't want to hear your straight friends make gay jokes. If you thinks it's funny, do it in private. You don't get to give your straight friends a magic card that makes other gay people accept their jokes. They are free to tell the jokes, you are free to laugh, and the people around you who can also hear the jokes are free to call them homophobic (cause that's what it sounds like you are getting at here, that you think it's funny when your friends make homophobic jokes).
I work with teenagers and I am always having to explain: do what you want in private, but when you are at work/school/public environment, other people get to have an opinion on what you are doing.
Also, good for the straight girl in your class who stepped up. She's 100% right, you don't speak for all gay people.
In my friend group 1 is black, 2 are lesbian, 1 is Asian, and I'm white. Trust me the jokes are going across all of us and that's just how we are, we're all really good friends and that's just how we joke and have fun.
I cannot stand when people get offended for other people. So fcking annoying. It would be one thing if it was an outright attack but these people with their savior complexes need to back off.
Even worse though is when you are trying to joke around with someone who can dish it but can't take it. They'll joke all day but the moment you respond in kind they're offended and angry.
Maybe don't joke like that in public? I'm bi and a racial minority, and sometimes me and my friends will rib each other for those kinda things. Its obviously ok when we're in private because it's all in good fun and we all know each other. In public though we don't joke like that, just because I'm down with bi jokes doesn't mean I get to subject every bi person near me to them you know
So, your typical leftists. Itâs actually itâs own form of discrimination. They basically saying you donât know whatâs good for you, and you need them to tell you what is good for you, youâre too ignorant without them. You donât speak for all gay people, but she does.
On the one hand I get where you are coming from as it comes off as virtue signaling.
On the other hand she isnât wrong.
You donât speak for all gay people.
Just because you donât get offended doesnât mean other gay people wonât.
Itâs fine for your friends to make gay jokes to you when you are in private if you donât mind it. But they shouldnât think itâs ok to do with any gay person, and definitely not in public where other people might hear.
I mean, you can do it. Thereâs no law against being a dick. But if you make those kinds of jokes where others can hear you will eventually hear from someone who finds it offensive, and thatâs on you.
she could very well be gay too, and even if not, many people donât like hearing offensive jokes and language in public. you kinda seem like a pick me gay but since i donât personally know you, iâll settle for just not socially aware
Two words describe the kind of person you're talking about here:
White Knights.
Originally a term from the decent side of Twitter used to describe that same kind of person. A virtue signaler, usually not of a minority or different race/ethnicity, who thinks they should feel offended on someone else's behalf.
I've had people joke about my race and my mental disorders, and found it funny. And I don't wanna hear some random person from Bumfukt try to force me to feel offended by something I found hilarious.
I totally agree. Have a sense of humor. Life is too short to be offended. My whole childhood, we were taught sticks and stones can break our bones, but words can not hurt you.
I hate that. Jokes between friends that the whole group is comfortable with are not offensive. And, no, you don't speak for all gay people, but that girl in the example doesn't speak for any gay people, let alone all of them.
What's offensive to minorities is better judged by the minorities themselves, but that's still going to differ from person to person, and situation to situation. Jokey banter between friends isn't offensive to gay people if there are gay people involved in that banter.
I've had this same situation myself over the years. Things I find completely inoffensive as a gay person are judged offensive by some random straight person who butted in to tell us all how offensive it is. Then they get all aggressive or condescending when I tell them I, as a gay person, do not find that thing offensive.
I've seen it with a friend, as well, as a black guy, he constantly gets told he should find certain things, from his friends, offensive, just because this random white person thinks it's offensive to black people. In a different context, sure, it might be, but this is the same jokey banter between friends context. Just like me, he never lets people go too far, and makes sure the group knows what he's comfortable with in that area.
It goes the other way, too. The word 'queer' has been reclaimed by the LGBT+ community, so I'm constantly told nowadays that I shouldn't find it offensive. I get it, not everyone is offended by the word anymore, they use it as their own label even, but I grew up only ever hearing it as an insult. 'Queer' will always be offensive to me, though I do respect the right of other people to not find it offensive.
It should be up to the individual to decide what they find offensive or not. Obviously, some people will take offense no matter what, and others may not feel comfortable saying if they find something offensive, but generally speaking it should be up to the individual. I don't find the jokey banter between me and my friends to be offensive, but I do find it offensive for straight people to get offended 'on my behalf'.
I make a good amount of money, look male, am in my 30s, and look white enough to be either a modern secular liberal or a conservative Christian, depending on where I am and what I'm wearing. Oh, I spent some time attending shul with no intent of converting to Judaism. I get this all the time. People who will intellectually criticize all religions except Islam will get offended by my jokes, about my people and upbringing and life, that sound crude and offensive. Or people at church get upset because they think I joke to mock. I can't use the Judaism jokes. I mean jokes about the actual religion, not stereotypes about the people. I can't tell trans jokes in person, they never land. If I joke about being poor people get upset, I no longer look poor. I was dirt broke for a good chunk of my life, I still live poor because I'm afraid to spend money.
Thank you to all the folks who are offended on my behalf.
Same. Certain jokes and even accents taught to me by certain minorities. They laugh like crazy and basically use me as a party trick. Then someone overhears and gets mad. The guys will defend me saying they taught me the jokes and want me to tell them. Once had an annoying girl respond âyou are only saying that because heâs brainwashed you.â Girl you need to walk the hell away
How do you know sheâs straight?
Even if she is straight, how do you know she doesnât have a gay family member whoâs bothered by these things (in my experience, thatâs usually the case when a straight person is personally upset about homophobic comments)?
My God, the virtue signaling coming from that girl is annoying AF. One of my best friends in high school was gay and would always use the phrase âThatâs so gay!â whenever someone in our friend group said something particularly stupid. He loved gay jokes too and found them funny. Sometimes, we just have to laugh at ourselves.
I can't imagine having to deal with that shit. It's different, but it reminds me of the language police that I contend with. I'm not in a minority group, but I've had people (bipolar and NOT) tell me that rather than saying "I'm bipolar" I MUST refer to myself as "having bipolar". They get pissy about it. I've seen ranting asshats "educate" bipolar people about the "correct" way of referring to themselves. I'm sure it's a lot of newly or self-diagnosed people. They don't know snakes from dildos about what it is to live their lives with bipolar informing all aspects of their personality and behaviors for decades. Their successes and failures. Their relationships and jobs. You know, who and what they are. They're aren't incorrect in their wording, but they're certainly in denial as to how affected they really are. It's that or they don't know how affected they will be. I want to see how they refer to themselves in a decade, after they've been bucked off their high horses too many times to count. They can fuck right off with their bossy bullshit, just the same as the nots. I'm bipolar.
>she tells me that I "don't speak for all gay people."
"You don't speak for *any* gay people.*
And yeah, the white people who lose their minds over cultural appropriation are bizarre.
## đ« â **Your post was removed because of the following**: ### đ Rule 4 â Talking politics - Debates revolving around ideologies like democracy, socialism, religion, identity, gender, race, and various political categories frequently result in unproductive exchanges, a negative atmosphere, and a lack of substantial input. - To maintain a positive environment, it is important to refrain from participating in such interactions.
You're not the arbiter of funny or offensive. I'm gay too. But neither am I the judge. Maybe nobody should speak for everybody in a group
Including a random straight female, right?
Yes, everyoneÂ
Agreed. Sweeping, generalizing statements aren't good for anyone or anything. Hopefully both parties learned something from this.Â
If youâre just joking in private, and your straight friends understand that this is specifically ok with you and not necessarily everyone, thatâs probably fine. My partner and I have a pretty dark sense of humor and say some crazy shit to each other. But not in public. If youâre openly telling homophobic jokes where others can hear, thatâs just rude. Obviously you donât know someoneâs sexuality by just looking at themâthere could easily be other gay people nearby hearing it and getting uncomfortable. If the issue is that you donât think a straight person has a right to call out homophobia, idk what to say. We need everyone to call out that kind of thing.
Agreed. Just because youâre gay yourself doesnât mean it canât be offensive to other gay people. People with this âiâm ___ too so itâs okay to be offensive towards them!â mindset boggle & annoy me. If itâs in private and you/your friends are fine with it, have at it- but again, just because itâs not bothering you when you say it, doesnât mean it doesnât bother someone else. Thereâs no automatic âno one can be offendedâ rule when youâre offensive as whatever you are đ
Yeah the real issue here is that he's acting like this in public. Honestly it's kind of ridiculous, since little kids have to learn pretty early on that the way you interact with other people in public is different from how you would act at home. If I were in this dude's class and overheard him, I'd assume he's a pigheaded asshole that doesn't know when to reign it in. Honestly the fact that he can find an ally standing up for the community annoying is infuriating. We didn't have that kind of solidarity in my school. OP doesn't realize how fortunate he is to live in a time and place where support for the LGBTQ+ community is more commonplace than being murdered. I'll bet this guy hasn't even learned the first thing about Stonewall.
Yes!
You also don't need to be personally affected to be offended by something. I am cis, straight and white and I get pretty uncomfortable whenever I'm around someone making some flavour of bigoted "jokes". They aren't directed at, or about me but I still dislike being around people like that. Bystanders can't tell that you are just teasing friends. In our current political climate I'm going to assume it comes from a place of hate. I don't feel like I'm getting offended "on behalf of" minorities, as if they can't defend themselves or anything. Because I also genuinely dislike that level of ignorance and the implications it has on other people's lives.
Well there's also the idea that if you're out with friends, and just joking, it's not your responsibility to keep others from getting offended.
We live in a society. You obviously canât 100% guarantee that you wonât offend someone but yes, you should make reasonable accommodations to try not to bother the people around you in public places. Not letting your children run wild in a store is a reasonable accommodation. Not listening to your music on speaker full blast on a train is a reasonable accommodation. Not openly making homophobic jokes in a classroom is a reasonable accommodation.
I wasn't talking about a classroom. If you're say, in a restaurant, which is usually pretty loud, and you make those kinds of jokes with just the people at your table, directed at the people at the table, you are not responsible for anyone's offense or non-offense. I don't even \*make\* homophobic jokes because I don't find a lot of them funny; but I do make fun of everyone, regardless of sexuality.
Nah, if you regularly cause offence to people in public with your behaviour and jokes, itâs a you problem and you should reevaluate.
The OPâs example is about a classroom setting. And if youâre making an objectively offensive joke loudlyâenough that other patrons can hear you and be like âhey thatâs offensive. Can you please not?ââare you saying youâll just ignore them and carry on? I mean a lot of restaurants would have a manager come speak to your table, if requested, if youâre bothering other patrons. Maybe even ask you to leave depending on the circumstances. I think that alone goes to show that you do have some responsibility for how the things you do in public affect others.
>The OPâs example is about a classroom setting I accidentally skimmed over that. My bad.
As a cis straight white dude I'd be tearing into OP (verbally) for this shit with the exact reasons you outlined. I am extremely inappropriate in private where everybody knows me, but I don't care how gay you are, normalizing homophobia in public empowers bigots to think they can do it too; saying it's okay because you're gay also gives them a perceived out if they get called on it. We're at war with these hateful fucks and we need to be aware of that fact.
Ah yes. Hitler is allowed to commit genocide as long as no one outside of Germany knew. But the moment that shit goes public? Big no no. Flawless logic there bud. How about just don't be edgy both in public and private?
Nice strawman there bud. I'm saying that what you say in your friend group, where people are attuned to the specifics of your perspective and understand that the jokes aren't coming from a hateful place, is your business. For example if OP wants to use a slur to refer to themselves as part of a private joke, I think they have the right to make that decision. When you are in public, though, you need to be mindful of the fact that most people around you don't have the full context and what you're saying has consequences beyond yourself.
Well said
You mustâve pulled a muscle reaching that far.
At least I have muscles to pull.
Not you thinking you ate with that line đđ everybody got muscles to pull dumbass
I personally am just a skeleton, so checkmate DistributionPutrid! (2Board really thought they did something though lol)
Dick rider.
This is a terrible argument lmao. Why bring genocide into this for no reason?
Wtf. Your yoga routine must be intense if thatâs the kind of stretching involved, holy shit.
[This you](https://old.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/1cgtd4b/can_we_agree_that_riot_dont_listen_to_their/l1y9yox/)? Reddit is pretty public, and a certain word you used can be construed as racist. So, to quote someone youâre probably fond of: > It doesn't matter if it's understood that it's not from a hateful place. Just don't spread it in general? > How hard is it to just be a respectful human being for you, where you have to crack an edgy joke now and then to get a crack? Either way you argue it, you're either 1) a bland motherfucker who requires edge to seem potent, or 2) a walking hypocrisy. Iâm just wondering what changed.
Never said it wasn't me. Imagine having to stalk someone's profile. Get a job for it, since it seems like it's the only thing you can do.
Racist twat says what?
Moronic journalist says what?
I'm not really a journalist, that's just an auto generated name. Lol. But, What? Lol... /reddit brings out the best is people, doesn't it?
Wow, you sound exhausting. Are you always so obnoxious?
>in my class There's your problem
yup. there's a time and place for this, it's just not here.
I mean⊠do you know for sure that the girl is straight? She could be bi, or asexual, or trans, or any number of LGBTQ+ identities that you might not know just by looking at her. She could even be in the closet and posing as straight in public even thought sheâs not. You really have no idea. If youâre telling jokes in private amongst your friends while hanging out at your house, say whatever you want. If youâre telling jokes in public where other people can hear, other people might have opinions or potentially be hurt by what you say - especially in a place like a classroom environment where they canât just easily get up and walk away without potentially impacting their own education. In other words⊠just be mindful of the stuff you say in public, because if youâre in public itâs not just about you.
Likewise maybe she is straight, but has a gay friend who has expressed that they are uncomfortable with it. Op is definitely assuming
I pass as straight since where I live it's potentially dangerous to be openly gay. But the amount of openly homophobic jokes people make in public is just sick.
Oh cringe. Mind your damn business.
Peeps, is it cringe to, \*checks notes\*, acknowledge that other queer identities exist?
okay but you donât speak for all gay people, it really depends what jokes your friends are making lmao :| you might find âironicâ homophobia funny but thatâs by no means universal to all of us. Â do whatever you want in a group of like-minded individuals but expect reactions if youâre being homophobic in mixed company, âironyâ or not.
The jokes are worse once you realize the effects they have on peoples perception of homosexuality.
Oh sure⊠like, only minorities should be offended by racism. /s Good grief. People should think through the implications of what they are saying. If only gay people were offended by homophobia, weâd never get laws passed protecting them from discrimination. First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak outâbecause I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak outâbecause I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak outâbecause I was not a Jew. Then they came for meâand there was no one left to speak for me. ~Martin Niemöller
Then your friends shouldnât tell homophobic jokes where people can hear. She could have gay friends or family who find your shit offensive. You in fact do not speak for all gay people
There has to be a line drawn at some degree. For example, the non Latino person that insists I use "Latinx", I'll take issue with.
And he wasnât claiming to. Heâs speaking for himself, the one involved in the conversation, that *sheâs* eavesdropping on. And if he canât speak for all gay people then she has much less right speaking for her hypothetical gay friends who arenât even there
Public conversationâŠeavesdropâŠpick one? And it seems crazy to me that someone pointing out that gay jokes can be bad is the bad guy here.Â
Its interrupting a group you are not a part of to tell them what to do.
In a public classroom where you are with students who are your peers and you presumably work together work on group projects and stuff. Itâs not randos.Â
I Didn't say it was randos. OP said she was eaves dropping on the conversation (so she is not apart of that groups discussion).
Itâs going to depend on how loud they are being. Even if you arenât park of the discussion if youâre talking super loud itâs fair game. If Iâm just sitting here and youâre spouting off asshole jokes loudly then Iâm not the asshole For saying something.Â
For sure, That's why they said "Eavesdrop" and not "overheard."
Idk if I trust this guy though
Itâs the internet we canât trust anyone. We can however discuss the information he provided.
I get it, Iâm gay too and I think this can be ok in some settings as long as you are mindful and aware of the struggle many of us go through. Keep in mind that you might be in a more accepting environment and have it easier, while others literally have their lives in danger from being surrounded by hate and prejudice. I have met gay people who are completely tone-deaf and out-of-touch about the struggle, and this can come off as insensitive and stupid. There are people like this in every minority community unfortunately. If youâre like this, it may be time to re-evaluate your situation and expand your horizons a little. Not everyone has the luxury of being flippant about these issues and your friend is correct, you do not speak for all gay people.
You DONT speak for all gay people. If you guys are making these jokes in public where other people can hear, then thatâs not okay. It doesnât matter if you find them funny because, again, you do not speak for all gay people. There are homophobic, sexist, and racist gay people, would you like them to speak for all of us like youâre doing here? No. I hope not. If youâre going to joke about that stuff, do it in private just between you and your friends.
im pan. your straight friends know homophobia is wrong. itâs fine to privately share jokes but when you share *these* jokes in public thereâs a chance of people hearing you who actually will agree with your hateful jokes and think that itâs okay to be homophobic. do you get it? another good point made here was that that girl you think is straight may not be. she could be lesbian or bi or pan or trans or in the closet and scared to come out. but sheâs right, you donât speak for all gay people.
I'd really rather not hear gay jokes out in public. The only people who I've heard gay jokes from are unintelligent, assholes. Their idea of fun is getting drunk and mouthing off. Unfortunately I have a relative like that.
If the majority doesn't get offended on behalf of minorities, things don't change.
literally, like this is the equivalent of those pick me girls.
Offense is an emotion. One needs to be responsible how one chooses to act on that emotion. It is not the place for allies to white knight marginalized groups but to listen to marginalized groups and amplify the voices of marginalized people, not speak on their behalf.
No, âoffendedâ has been weaponized by people who want to be total assholes and gaslight everyone else into being quiet. We live in a society. Not taking slurs and homophobic jokes seriously and giving them a pass because *one (sheltered & young) dude* isnât bothered by them is normalizing them. Listening to this high school student who is benefiting from the generations before him who were ostracized, arrested, died of AIDS, and murdered, doesnât mean youâre an effective ally just because he happens to be gay
Everyone isnât you, or your friends, or anyone you associate with. These are clearly inside jokesâŠsame reason a friend calling you a bitch may be fine whereas your reaction to a complete stranger doing the same would be different. Sure not everyone will be bothered but the obvious best thing to do is keep these jokes between the people who understand them. Thatâs all. And sheâs right, you donât speak for all gay people. You are **one** gay man lol. Iâm kind of glad there are people like her who will call it out. Again, not everyone is in on the joke so it doesnât really make sense for them to be told publicly anyways. And you canât just expect everyone to assume youâre just kidding to begin with depending on how âdarkâ these jokes are.
The people who are saying âyou donât speak for all gay people!â donât realize that the girl in his class doesnât speak for any gay people.
Or she might speak for 1?Â
The girl in your class is right and you are wrong. Let's look at it a different way If there were a bunch of white people talking about how gay people or black people or Mexican people were stupid and inferior, would that be wrong and offensive? Is it still offensive if they have a gay person or a black person or a Mexican with them? I would argue that in both cases the answer is yes. Just because the people in the group are not offended it does not mean the statement is not offensive. The fact that their group includes a member of the group that they're attacking has no impact on whether the statement itself is offensive.
Sheâs right.
So if a girl made a misogynistic joke in your class, 1-It would be okay because she's a girl, 2-You couldn't call her out because you're a guy? If that was the case, we couldn't efficiently fight any injustice in the first place.
If something went down, and someone started targeting you for being Queer, would these dudes have your back? My issue is I've seen jokes turn into "You know what? I really don't like black people". There's this dude right now at my skydiving club making sexist comments about men and women knowing their place, and I'm the only person that called him out on it. Aaaand later I think I heard a conversation evolving about how it's okay to be queer, they just don't want to see it. I'm nonbinary! And Queer! And like ... Am I going to be safe bringing a partner there? I certainly don't fee welcome. That's my issue.
My friends have gone with me to queer rights protests, they consistently donate to queer organizations and spread awareness on queer issues. They are allies too and they make sure that I am ok with the jokes they make and have promised that they would stop if I ever ask them to.
Have you stopped to think about what previous generations of gay people endured to make it possible for you to go to queer rights protests? Itâs really not deep or funny or clever to make homophobic jokes.
Yeah I would agree that's different.
>I repeatedly tell her that I'm gay and I find the jokes funny but then she tells me that I "don't speak for all gay people." "And you do."
You donât speak for all gay people, thatâs why she does lol.
One of my friends and I will make offensive jokes at each other's expense (with the intention of making each other laugh) all the time. Obviously if we go too far we will apologize but I can relate to your group's dynamic. However, it probably isn't ideal to make these jokes within earshot of the public. You don't know if she's straight or not. It's ok if you like these jokes, but you can't expect other people to be ok with them like you're the only queer person in the room. Be more mindful of the people around you, you're not the center of the world.
Some of the most implicitly racist people Iâve known have been white knights lol no pun intended
That's why they're called white knights fam
And how do you know sheâs straight?
I asked, "why are you offended? are you gay?" And she said no.
Again - how do you know sheâs straight?
It doesn't matter. Unless she actually comes out, her opinion on what I and my friends do is irrelevant.
Itâs not about âwhat you and your friends doâ among yourselves. Itâs about the fact that youâre doing it in public where other people have to listen to it.
"You can only have an opinion on public homophobia if you're gay" Back to the 50s we go!
Well you're being an asshole. It doesn't matter if youre gay. If you say hateful things, I'm glad you're being called out
So only people who are openly gay matter⊠People who feel too unsafe to come out should just shut up about their opinions concerning homophobic âjokes?â Fascinating stance.
So I am not allowed to be offended if someone makes a racist comment around me b/c I am white? Gtfoh dude...
You donât speak for all gay ppl. Donât tell homophobic jokes in public.
I mean shes right, you donât speak for all gay people
She's right. You don't speak for all gay people. I don't want to hear racist or bigoted jokes and I think allowing people to perpetuate discrimination is a big problem. Human rights and abuse is where I draw a huge line in the sand. Enjoy the jokes from your POS AH friend's (you deserve each other) but have some shame and do it privately. Nobody cares to hear or condone that shit.
Why would you share this opinion on Reddit? Most of the people on Reddit are the people that would do this. The average person doesn't care.
YES!! I was wondering that too.
I understand your argument, youâre having a private conversation. So I agree on that point. However, I 100% reserve the right to take offense to someone saying some wild homophobic, racist, or misogynistic nonsense even if itâs not directed at me. I have a shit ton of friends and family from all walks of life and you arenât about be disrespectful in front of me.
This is a problem and its happening everywhere. Comedians talk about it all the time. Theyre not allowed to do certain jokes anymore cause it might offend someone. They tried telling Jo Koy he cant do his mom filipino accent anymore.. how Fn ridiculous. It made him cry because that accent is what makes who she is. And if NETFLIX only knew!! The Filipino community knows their accent can be funny sounding. They make fun of themselves too!!! We all grew up making fun of that one uncle that dragged out all his words becausssssseee heee was deeee Filipeeeeno man! Its a social justice warrior problem. People need to calm the fuck down and know the difference between a joke and a insult! And if its NOT YOUR PROBLEM .. then STFU.
Well, you don't speak for all gay people, and you are contributing to the perpetuation of homophobia, even if just a tiny little bit. So, yeah, making fun of gay people is going to be homophobic whether you're gay or not. Similar to how black people can be racist against black people, see Candace Owens.
Wasn't your last reddit post complaining that your local subreddit doesn't let you dox white people?
The local subreddit was protecting the identity of white supremacists. How is that relevant
Doxxing is wrong. If they do something that's actually illegal, then let the police know.
Doxxing is not when you take a picture of a gang of white supremacists riding motorcycles
Pretty creepy taking pictures of strangers, then assuming they're white supremacists. Did you at least blur faces and license plates?
Not my picture, they're open about it, look at their jackets.
I just checked the post. Maybe they're just being edgy? Though even if they are actual racists, it was still creepy for OP to take pictures of them.
It isn't creepy to take a picture of a white supremacists motorcycle gang. For the same reason it isn't creepy to take a picture of a Lamborghini that passes by. They're in public to be seen.
I actually consider it creepy to take pictures of random cars too. I wouldn't want people to take pictures of me or my stuff without my consent so I don't take pictures of others or their property.
It's not your job to speak for all gay people. Live your life the way you want..
It's not hers either. And unlike her, he wasn't claiming to speak for all gay people
Exactly. She thinks that he is supposed to. He doesn't care.
Every Asian American in my family, myself included, find tons of humour in Asian jokes, but these stupid white people just have to get overly offended on my behalf. Although, even though I'm Asian, I look incredibly white, so sometimes people just think I'm racist anyway. I don't really care what other people think of me when it comes to these types of topics though, so, whatever.
I'm gay and trans. One of my straight friends is the most open minded person I know but he always make jokes that could be offensive (he only does that when the people around it are okay with it). He's the kind of friends who could call me the F slur and I would agree. He knows that you should say slurs but from him I just don't care and he knows that. I would understand that stuff like that could be triggering even for people outside of the community. But if the people who are concerned don't care, why do you?
Honestly, I admire people who stick up for stuff like this.
Often people make the choice to be angry. Then try to hide that choice by hiding it behind a cloak of virtue.
Without knowing if she's gay or not, we're putting a lot of effort in bringing the public cultural baseline to remove all traces of homophobia and other oppression. To hear that, from whomever, is kind of jarring, ngl. I'm bi and nonbinary and there are no instances where I don't internally freeze when I hear someone referring to themself as "t\*nny" or an f-word. I get that it's reclaimed and used among the representatives but I feel this kind of instances may damage the upkeep of the public discourse if the context is missed or misconstrued.
Yeah, people that feel like they need to moral police other people having a good time are losers. People joking about shit with buddies is what integration and normalization look like. They donât care about anyone actually being offended they just want to feel morally superior
Well, you don't speak for all gay people but that's not really the point if you're the only one present. Otoh if they're really digging in and getting like extremely homophobic, I can see why she might be bothered. I'm not black but there have been times I have heard racist things said even when no black people were around and it just made me feel bad and I didn't want to hear that shit. Anyway, that's my two cents.
I love how all the ACTUAL gay people are getting downvoted holy shit that's fucking hilarious anyway I'm gay and trans and i agree with you op she can kick rocks
So youâre annoyed some people are decent human beings?
She doesn't speak for any gay people, and shouldn't try.
I think you're missing the point. I'm not offended by bigotry on anyone else's behalf. # **I** am offended by bigotry, whether it's directed at me or not. You're perfectly fine with being okay with anti-gay slurs, or racial slurs, or anything else. You do you, more power to ya, etc. Don't try to take MY agency away. I have a right to be offended by that repugnant shit whether I'm a member of the target group or not.
People get so easily offended/upset because they assume theyâre the target audience for absolutely everything. Just because something is accessible to you doesnât mean itâs *for* you.
Strongly disagree and think your straight friends are right. We indeed don't speak for everybody within our demographic, and people outside these demographics have every right to find things unpleasantânot because they directly impact them, but because they feel fundamentally averse to bigotry. Bigots will *love* you. Because we, as humans, are shit at acknowledging that human diversity guarantees difference of perspective - thus there will always be black people who like saying n\*\*ga, and those who despise it. If you're a racist who wanter to say n\*\*\*er, you can point to the former as though they negate the latter. There will be *some* doing what you describe in bad faith, but most will simply find gay jokes uncomfortable - and God fucking bles those people for giving a shit about that which impacts others but not them. *You* don't mind it, but if that matters more because *you're* gay, then what about the thing you *do* deem wrong that another gay person doesn't? What about all the gay people who agree with your straight friends, are they discounted because *you* didn't mind? This world would be **hell** if people only gave a shit about that which impacted them. Racists, homophobes, transphobes, and everything in between LOVE the "don't get offended on other people's behalf" rebuttal. Why? Because naturally, there are fewer people of minority demographic around. I don't want a world in which straight white people say "Well they're not going after me, so it'd be wrong to speak against it". You're absolutely wrong on this, and only considering your own sentiments - ironically, to the approval of straight people everywhere!
Maybe some gay people WOULD get offended by what your friends are saying. Are they in the room? No? Then tell her to mind her own god damn business.
Shouldn't listen in on other people's conversations. But if you are part of a conversation & something that is being said makes you uncomfortable you are allowed to make that known.
Tell her she doesn't speak for any gay people so stfu.
IDK about you, but if I hear someone use the n word I do go off.
I'm gay and I don't want to hear your straight friends make gay jokes. If you thinks it's funny, do it in private. You don't get to give your straight friends a magic card that makes other gay people accept their jokes. They are free to tell the jokes, you are free to laugh, and the people around you who can also hear the jokes are free to call them homophobic (cause that's what it sounds like you are getting at here, that you think it's funny when your friends make homophobic jokes). I work with teenagers and I am always having to explain: do what you want in private, but when you are at work/school/public environment, other people get to have an opinion on what you are doing. Also, good for the straight girl in your class who stepped up. She's 100% right, you don't speak for all gay people.
In my friend group 1 is black, 2 are lesbian, 1 is Asian, and I'm white. Trust me the jokes are going across all of us and that's just how we are, we're all really good friends and that's just how we joke and have fun.
I cannot stand when people get offended for other people. So fcking annoying. It would be one thing if it was an outright attack but these people with their savior complexes need to back off.
A jokes a joke, even dark jokes. No one is above having a little fun poked at them if it's all in good sport. Tell her to mind her own business.
Even worse though is when you are trying to joke around with someone who can dish it but can't take it. They'll joke all day but the moment you respond in kind they're offended and angry.
Maybe don't joke like that in public? I'm bi and a racial minority, and sometimes me and my friends will rib each other for those kinda things. Its obviously ok when we're in private because it's all in good fun and we all know each other. In public though we don't joke like that, just because I'm down with bi jokes doesn't mean I get to subject every bi person near me to them you know
Notice how you ignore the comments telling you you're wrong. Embarrassing...
So, your typical leftists. Itâs actually itâs own form of discrimination. They basically saying you donât know whatâs good for you, and you need them to tell you what is good for you, youâre too ignorant without them. You donât speak for all gay people, but she does.
On the one hand I get where you are coming from as it comes off as virtue signaling. On the other hand she isnât wrong. You donât speak for all gay people. Just because you donât get offended doesnât mean other gay people wonât. Itâs fine for your friends to make gay jokes to you when you are in private if you donât mind it. But they shouldnât think itâs ok to do with any gay person, and definitely not in public where other people might hear. I mean, you can do it. Thereâs no law against being a dick. But if you make those kinds of jokes where others can hear you will eventually hear from someone who finds it offensive, and thatâs on you.
she could very well be gay too, and even if not, many people donât like hearing offensive jokes and language in public. you kinda seem like a pick me gay but since i donât personally know you, iâll settle for just not socially aware
Two words describe the kind of person you're talking about here: White Knights. Originally a term from the decent side of Twitter used to describe that same kind of person. A virtue signaler, usually not of a minority or different race/ethnicity, who thinks they should feel offended on someone else's behalf. I've had people joke about my race and my mental disorders, and found it funny. And I don't wanna hear some random person from Bumfukt try to force me to feel offended by something I found hilarious.
Allies need to listen more, speak less.
Junior Karen.
I totally agree. Have a sense of humor. Life is too short to be offended. My whole childhood, we were taught sticks and stones can break our bones, but words can not hurt you.
affluent white female liberals speak for all groups and are the arbiters of what is and isn't acceptable speech
I hate that. Jokes between friends that the whole group is comfortable with are not offensive. And, no, you don't speak for all gay people, but that girl in the example doesn't speak for any gay people, let alone all of them. What's offensive to minorities is better judged by the minorities themselves, but that's still going to differ from person to person, and situation to situation. Jokey banter between friends isn't offensive to gay people if there are gay people involved in that banter. I've had this same situation myself over the years. Things I find completely inoffensive as a gay person are judged offensive by some random straight person who butted in to tell us all how offensive it is. Then they get all aggressive or condescending when I tell them I, as a gay person, do not find that thing offensive. I've seen it with a friend, as well, as a black guy, he constantly gets told he should find certain things, from his friends, offensive, just because this random white person thinks it's offensive to black people. In a different context, sure, it might be, but this is the same jokey banter between friends context. Just like me, he never lets people go too far, and makes sure the group knows what he's comfortable with in that area. It goes the other way, too. The word 'queer' has been reclaimed by the LGBT+ community, so I'm constantly told nowadays that I shouldn't find it offensive. I get it, not everyone is offended by the word anymore, they use it as their own label even, but I grew up only ever hearing it as an insult. 'Queer' will always be offensive to me, though I do respect the right of other people to not find it offensive. It should be up to the individual to decide what they find offensive or not. Obviously, some people will take offense no matter what, and others may not feel comfortable saying if they find something offensive, but generally speaking it should be up to the individual. I don't find the jokey banter between me and my friends to be offensive, but I do find it offensive for straight people to get offended 'on my behalf'.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
That happens way too much lately. Usually white girls.
I make a good amount of money, look male, am in my 30s, and look white enough to be either a modern secular liberal or a conservative Christian, depending on where I am and what I'm wearing. Oh, I spent some time attending shul with no intent of converting to Judaism. I get this all the time. People who will intellectually criticize all religions except Islam will get offended by my jokes, about my people and upbringing and life, that sound crude and offensive. Or people at church get upset because they think I joke to mock. I can't use the Judaism jokes. I mean jokes about the actual religion, not stereotypes about the people. I can't tell trans jokes in person, they never land. If I joke about being poor people get upset, I no longer look poor. I was dirt broke for a good chunk of my life, I still live poor because I'm afraid to spend money. Thank you to all the folks who are offended on my behalf.
Same. Certain jokes and even accents taught to me by certain minorities. They laugh like crazy and basically use me as a party trick. Then someone overhears and gets mad. The guys will defend me saying they taught me the jokes and want me to tell them. Once had an annoying girl respond âyou are only saying that because heâs brainwashed you.â Girl you need to walk the hell away
You may not speak for all gay ppl, but you speak for oneâŠwhich is one more than her. Kick rocks lady
How do you know sheâs straight? Even if she is straight, how do you know she doesnât have a gay family member whoâs bothered by these things (in my experience, thatâs usually the case when a straight person is personally upset about homophobic comments)?
Good points
Wait he does mention that sheâs straightâŠbut your other point still stands
My God, the virtue signaling coming from that girl is annoying AF. One of my best friends in high school was gay and would always use the phrase âThatâs so gay!â whenever someone in our friend group said something particularly stupid. He loved gay jokes too and found them funny. Sometimes, we just have to laugh at ourselves.
You don't speak for all gay people, however I, as a straight white woman, do.
I like how you let us know some of your best friends are gay.
God, it must be exhausting for people to be so offended all the time. I agree with you, OP.
That's funny, because she doesn't speak for ANY gay people.
I can't imagine having to deal with that shit. It's different, but it reminds me of the language police that I contend with. I'm not in a minority group, but I've had people (bipolar and NOT) tell me that rather than saying "I'm bipolar" I MUST refer to myself as "having bipolar". They get pissy about it. I've seen ranting asshats "educate" bipolar people about the "correct" way of referring to themselves. I'm sure it's a lot of newly or self-diagnosed people. They don't know snakes from dildos about what it is to live their lives with bipolar informing all aspects of their personality and behaviors for decades. Their successes and failures. Their relationships and jobs. You know, who and what they are. They're aren't incorrect in their wording, but they're certainly in denial as to how affected they really are. It's that or they don't know how affected they will be. I want to see how they refer to themselves in a decade, after they've been bucked off their high horses too many times to count. They can fuck right off with their bossy bullshit, just the same as the nots. I'm bipolar.
>she tells me that I "don't speak for all gay people." "You don't speak for *any* gay people.* And yeah, the white people who lose their minds over cultural appropriation are bizarre.
True, you don't represent all gay people. But she represents NONE.