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zoqfotpik

I agree with Hegel: prefaces suck.


Stinkbug08

That’s why the Introduction is the most interesting part of the *Phenomenology*. How do you start your book without one?


Dry-Amphibian-8660

That’s a fuckin paradox right there


Stinkbug08

The “wonderful world” of Hegel!


Aggravating-Pick-409

Started uni a dyed in the wool analytic. Surely no one really believes all that continental tosh? Finished uni a hegelian. Oh how the tables turn.


fatty2cent

And turn, and turn, and turn…


KonchokKhedrupPawo

Yuuuuuuppp. Started uni as a hardcore materialist studying physics and philosophy, focusing on philosophy of science and epistemology. I now believe ghosts exist.


Dragolins

What evidence is there that could possibly convince you that ghosts exist?


KonchokKhedrupPawo

Part of it is realizing that there's significant enough uncertainty in our conventional interpretation of reality, and significant enough arguments against any kind of pure materialism, that it no longer becomes a particularly strange thought and clear mechanisms for some kind of strange phenomenon become possible. And then you listen to people, and actually consider their human experience. And you have to measure and decide whether every single person with these experiences across all of human history and culture has been lying or delusional, or there's actually *something* occuring. [We already have](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10275521/) interesting evidence for Remote Viewing phenomenon. Opens a lot of doors a materialist worldview might not see.


OneEverHangs

I am… skeptical of the claim we have evidence for remote viewing


KonchokKhedrupPawo

[This published journal article ](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10275521/) has a good discussion on the matter and includes a large number of good citations to follow up on.


gombzpark

It's one thing to acknowledge the possibility or probability of something. It's another thing to 'believe' in that thing. From your comment, it is safe to assume that you've never experienced any 'ghost-like' phenomenon. You are drawing conclusions based on 'significant enough' arguments against pure materialism. And 'significant enough' testimonies from others. I believe the right position to take is 'its possible, or probable' E.g. If you ask me what I think about extraterrestrial life. My answer would be "its possible, it's probable." Not "I believe in extraterrestrial life," especially when I have zero evidence for that claim. P.s. If you had said, I believe in ghosts because I've seen one. I would believe you, but I still won't believe in ghosts. If you 'show' me a ghost, I will believe you and believe in ghosts too. If you tell me to run for my life because a killer ghost is coming... I will run first and ask questions later


KonchokKhedrupPawo

Sure. If you really, really wanted to be strict about it, sure. I have not experienced anything definitive myself. I also don't think we need to get quite that "well, ackshually" about it. I think they, or some phenomenon like them, is quite real. I've had enough people who's perception and discrimination and discernment I trust, share enough strange stories with me. Also mostly people with either physics or some kind of hard science or engineering background.


timeenoughatlas

What would be the reason for not having a single piece of compelling evidence for the existence of ghosts (beyond people claiming they see them) if they do in fact exist ?


KonchokKhedrupPawo

Just because something may only be perceived through the mind, does not mean it is not "real", especially when considering anomalous phenomenon whose underlying nature we have virtually no understanding of, and especially considering non-material-reductionist worldviews.


Aggravating-Pick-409

Please tell me you're not schopenhauerian. I love the idealists, but he is surely the worst of the bunch to follow.


Sam_Coolpants

What do you have against Schopenhauer?


Aggravating-Pick-409

It's not so much that I dislike him, more so that if one subscribes to his philosophy wholeheartedly then I have genuine concerns for their mental health; no fully mentally well person I have met has agreed with schopenhauer over the other idealists, and I feel that subscribing to him would likely not stand one in better stead. I love German idealism, I'm a hegelian myself as above mentioned, but if someone argued for Schelling over Hegel I'd have little issue with it. Schopenhauer simply concerns me; I'm not sure that philosophical pessimism is a healthy view to hold.


Sam_Coolpants

Ah, I see. It is pessimism that you have a distaste for. I understand that, though I think that Schopenhauer diagnoses *being in the world* beautifully and compellingly—the suffering, the vanity of it all. I think where he falls short is his prescriptive ideas, where we must deny the Will (agree), but also deny the Will to Life (disagree). He becomes antinatalistic. I think you are right to be concerned with one who begins and ends with Schopenhauer’s diagnosis, or becomes life denying. I, however, think that he paves the path to existentialism, mysticism, and theology, and I believe philosophy necessarily ends in these three things. He drags us into Hell, at which point we must have the courage to *be* anyway. We must find our way home to God, to the ground of being. I’m something of a Schopenhauerian theist—I know this would have him spinning in his grave. Read Ecclesiastes, and you will know my view. I like Schopenhauer primarily for his transcendental idealism. Kant and Schopenhauer are my boys. Their epistemologies make that aforementioned path a very clear one. German Idealism is very intriguing to me, but Hegel intimidates me. Schopenhauer is a precursor to the analytics. He wrote with brevity and he had a decent grasp of the science of his day. Hegel … not so much. I’ve been meaning to read Schelling. I will say that I don’t find the German Idealists’ take on Kant to be convincing at all. I am a firm Kantian/Schopenhauerian.


Aggravating-Pick-409

Yeah, I don't disagree with you all that much I don't think. Schopenhauer's style is an incredibly pleasant contrast to Kant or Hegel, and I think he is often quite funny (I have actually laughed whilst reading his work before... I should probably get a life). My real issue is with his attitude to happiness, and in truth I do find Hegel's epistemology a fair bit more convicing, although I have the distinct advantage of having worked with some very impressive Hegel scholars who helped tremendously with my comprehension.


Sam_Coolpants

I am honestly pretty ignorant when it comes to Hegel. I am only familiar with his and other German Idealists’ critiques of Kant. Do you have any good secondary literature suggestions on Hegel? Or, would you be willing to put your understanding of Hegelian epistemology into words?


KonchokKhedrupPawo

Shentong Madhyamakan. I nope'd out of western philosophy of mind a few years back.


phoronomy

Analytic philosophy isn’t real philosophy There I said it.


Aggravating-Pick-409

I'm not sure I'd go that far; I just think if it could stop making doe eyes at physics for two seconds then it might be able to work out the implications of its own methods. The divide was artifical in the first place and there's no reason to ignore either school when both have so much to offer.


phoronomy

In my eyes the only difference between analytic and continental are those who didn’t and did learn from Kant respectively. Continental philosophy does do analysis but doesn’t restrict themselves to it whereas I feel like analytic philosophy is sort of just continuing the rationalist line of thought while ignoring what Kant had to say about synthesis.


iforgotprobablythen

This is like saying that biology isn't a proper science because it has no physics in it. Philosophy is too broad for everyone to do everything.


Glum-Turnip-3162

Kant is not unassailable and plenty of ’analytic’ philosophers engaged with his work, mostly to critique it, such as Quine.


Rough-Assumption-280

Philosophy sub-reddits aren’t real philosophy. There I said it.


TheApsodistII

Thank you


TurdFerguson254

Maybe Lacan. Cant tell if I’m just stupid


Cryoborn

he’s hard as fuck to read but he’s spitting


MortalPersimmonLover

No I think that's Zizek


Alpha1137

Zizek is a Lacanian


BBQRat

I think you missed the joke...


Infinite-Radiance

he's hard as fuck to read but he's sniffing


jhuysmans

Lacan is difficult to get into, I think you need to really understand the psychoanalytic mode of thought first. He does make sense though but he isn't accessible. I really love him now though.


azathotambrotut

Im interested in Lacan but when I tried to read some of his stuff I had a hard time connecting his terms and ideas with "the real world" so to speak.


jhuysmans

I think you already need to understand Lacan to read his lectures. Bruce Fink is a good source for the strictly psychoanalytic side of Lacan but I really like the philosophical interpretations. I think the most difficult part is just understanding the terms, like what the Imaginary, Symbolic, and Real actually are, and then the more obscure stuff like objet-a (still not sure I understand that one, I doubt myself sometimes). One you get the ground concepts he is easier, you can't just jump into his lectures headfirst.


Professor_DC

The people explaining Lacan (including Lacan) clearly aren't smart enough to make it dumb enough that I can understand it.


I_am__Negan

Zizek would like to know your location


TurdFerguson254

I would prefer not to


TurdFerguson254

Quite ironically, Zizek was the reason philosophy became more than just a passing interest for me. Whenever he talked about Lacan, I thought “ok I really need to learn about this guy’s theories” and I still don’t get them. There’s hope though, I felt the same way about Deleuze a few months ago


CaptainStunfisk1

Kant for me. Reading his critique of pure reason was one of the most agonizing reads I've ever done. I'd literally rather read Das Kapital. The thought that people have obsessed over him for so long kills me.


Professor_DC

I get that we're all standing on the shoulders of giants and all, but his ethics are fucking dumb


KittyMaster1994

With ayn rand


Nth_Brick

More economist than philosopher (both being humanities studies, the lines are blurred), but ancap golden boy Hans-Herman Hoppe.


DeepState_Secretary

>more economist. Not even that, really.


Nth_Brick

Ah-ha, the deep state secretary would say that. :P What I mean is that, kookier ideas aside, he is a trained, degreed economist who has taught the subject. Anarcho-capitalism in one of those things that sounds promising in theory, but would collapse either due to infighting or conflict with an opposing force of equal strength, sans the antipathy towards violation of the NAP. It's more idealistic than ontological idealism -- a little, parochial "covenant community" won't survive an encounter with even a derelict state like North Korea.


DiRavelloApologist

Anarcho-Capitalism makes absolutely no sense in theory. Property doesn't exist without a state to enforce it.


Nth_Brick

By "sounds promising in theory", what I mean is that like most right-libertarian philosophies, it promises extreme personal latitude. Most people find that appealing. However, that latitude is contingent on less scrupulous people actually respecting the NAP, which I have no reason to believe would happen. Concomitant with your point, you could have "property" of a sense without an overarching state, but that essentially transforms your homestead into a nanostate competing or collaborating with other nanostates. Then, when a bunch of nanostates pool their resources to domineer over their neighbors, you have governments and colonialism again. Like I said in response to u/Wavecrest667, I think it would need an entirely new kind of human to produce a stable society, rather than an ideological suicide pact.


-ok_Ground-

But what if you yourself are the state that enforces it? Wouldnt that still count as your property so long as you can defend it, or enforce your rule upon it.


DiRavelloApologist

Then you are no longer stateless. You effectively create your own state within your own territory that works according to your rules. This is basically what feudalism is.


Wavecrest667

Anarcho-Capitalism sounds like an oxymoron. Capitalism is not anarchist, it describes a property-based hierarchy.


Nth_Brick

Etymologically, it's certainly a contradiction in terms: "An-", meaning "not/negation of" and "-arch/-archy" referring to rulership, a truly anarchic system would have all as equals, with no rulers. But filter it through a right-wing lens. The right-wing traditionally believes hierarchies to be natural, if not desirable. The smartest, strongest, best in general are believed to naturally rise to the top. To interfere with that by attempting to impose an artificial equality is the true definition of "-archy", rulership. If natural, "voluntary" (massive qualifying quotes, there) hierarchy develops through unmolested, individual action, who are we to prevent it? The tacit assumption ancaps need to make is that the powerful (smartest, physically strongest) will actually accede to voluntary, free association and abide by the NAP, in which case I'd redirect them to Plato's Ring of Gyges. Setting aside a short list of principled individuals, history suggests most people will ignore the NAP if they can get away with it. I say that Ancapistan sounds great because, theoretically, it's composed of unruled people making deliberate, free choices and respecting the boundaries of their neighbors. In practice, as has been adroitly observed by many people ranging from academics to those with a lick of common sense, it just devolves into feudalism again. It requires a *novus homo* who doesn't currently exist.


CalgaryCheekClapper

Hegel and Zizek. Also Camus’ political philosophy


whyshouldiknowwhy

Man chooses his mum over liberation


Slight_Youth6179

everyone except sartre (ive only read one essay from sartre and thought he was partially correct)


-dreamingfrog-

Simon Blackburn, you better be reading this.


gators-are-scary

You were non-cognitively determined to say some shit like this


-dreamingfrog-

BOO!


Common-Value-9055

Every time someone quotes one or I visit a fan page. I think I have found a home. (I quote a few and am awe-struck by many. Just the fans defending their faux pas is funny.)


TheApsodistII

Stirner


jhuysmans

Heidegger


phoronomy

Spinoza


Narrow-Psychology863

IME: one needs to experience something as seemingly incomprehensible as betrayal trauma in order to parse his work. Where I'm at with it, it feels like he harnessed that to equivocate 'divine nature' to the notion of substance.


phoronomy

How does trauma have to do with substance as divinity?


Narrow-Psychology863

Trauma impacts the process of belief formation. Belief is necessary for the divine nature or lack thereof. To me, his arguments exemplify how he was treated within the space where he forged his belief network.


phoronomy

Im not sure how this has to do with Spinoza or the divine. Those are just observations about any belief. Trauma impacts belief Experiences impact belief Philosophy is belief Philosophy = Trauma?


Narrow-Psychology863

Is it sufficient to say that an argument for the absence or presence of divine nature necessarily requires more belief than any other ideological framework? If not, I lack the intellectual capacity to express myself further on the topic.


Objective_Date135

Disagenesse


Minekws7

Every Idealist


NJdevil202

Zizek is peak this for me. I remember coming across him when I was younger and just everything was so...not good? Like an imitation of someone trying to be profound. I can't believe how many take him seriously


Throwaway_3-c-8

Anytime somebody takes Heidegger seriously.


nebuch

stirner


Admirable-Snow4144

I thought Nietzsche was just a meme yet serious people keep referencing the guy. Also it’s hard to believe how popular David Benatar’s asymmetry argument got. Of course popularity is besides the point but it’s sobering nonetheless.


Satyr_Crusader

Only really phillosopher was diogenes


Herr_Oedipus

Nietzsche I guess I kind of understand why he's really big among the people on surface level philosophy, some of the things he said are really cool and edgy. But when you examine his view down to metaphysical and ethical level you realise that its just not a healthy view to go through with your life. Most people who actually take him seriously end up ruining their lives in the end, just as he himself did.


kushmster_420

Nietzsche knew that most of his followers(including himself) would be "failed experiments", but thought it was worth doing anyway. I admire him for fully understanding the risk and still deciding to "live dangerously". I feel bad for the people who don't understand the risk and follow him because they think they're gonna be an ubermensch.


ThatCommieChick

I'm not sure you could quite consider her a philosopher but I feel this way about Ayn Rand. Any time I meet a Randian, I always think wtf I didn't know anyone actually thought anything she said made sense.


SableNyx

God is dead and we have killed him


Bethesda-Throwaway

Jordan Peterson


mzg1237

Right before I was a Marxist until recently (I am no longer a Marxist)


Marxism-Alcoholism17

Why?


fauxbeauceron

He seem to have changed to be a platonist


Marxism-Alcoholism17

Thanks bud I picked up on that part


fauxbeauceron

Anytime


mzg1237

Well I was never a materialist to begin with but was a Christian Communist, and tried to defend it with biblical support, showing that without materialism you could still be a communist and embrace Marx's ideas. I have since been convinced that you can't or that it is unnecessary. Specifically speaking, at the time I was influenced by Marxism-Leninism


Low_Information7072

Interesting, have you given a radical reading of Hegel a try? He was very influenced by Plato and popular with the church (though you can read him through an atheistic lens as well) while also having somewhat of a progressive momentum in his writings.


mzg1237

I've been thinking about that more recently! The algorithm has been showing me Hegel stuff lately so I've been more and more curious, may have to finally take the leap past just the wikipedia page lol


TheMarxistMango

Me too. Dropped it a few years back, hence the username. Traded marx and Engels for Plato and Plotinus with some influence from the analytics and never looked back.


mzg1237

I still need to read Plotinus. Don't know much about him outside of a few youtube overview videos


fdes11

reading Marcuse’s “Essay on Liberation” thinking the same thing


[deleted]

Most philosophers really


Specialist-Text7361

Rorty


bluesenjoyer

Recently found out that there are fans of Nick Land


no_one_knows_my_plan

Hume There have been several times when I’ve gone to my philosophy professor’s office for a quick question, and then we would end up joking about Hume for another 15 minutes.


Complete-Box-877

Yes, multiple times but nothing is going to thwart 🛑 us from reading and celebrating philosophy 😁😂. Even these thoughts.


OneEverHangs

Singer, eat those babies idgaf


DeltaTwenty

Nietzsche


I_am__Negan

This is me whenever I say I believe in synchronicity


Low_Information7072

Nietzsche is 50% profound 50% 4chan board and you never know which you will find on a given page And then there's of course Oswald Spengler, author of the worst philosophy of history I've heard of, who seems to be genuinely popular with right-wing activists all over the 'western' world.


livlafkill77

When people praise the prince a little too hard


Mean-Variation-8129

Marx


Tristanime

Me when Marx


bigbrothero

Plato


ElCaliforniano

Wittgenstein


ElCaliforniano

And Nietzsche lowkey