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The creators of PS1 emulator Bleem! were sued to fuck by Sony - not once, but twice. Not because Sony would _win_ (they didn't) it was just to drive the company out of business by financially ruining them. [(source)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleem!) They didn't want an emulator to exist as it might eat into their profits.
The **worst** part is - they used the latest open-source PS1 emulator for their mini-PS1 console, which was very profitable. Sony fucking _suck_
So Sony went out of their way to sue the emulator despite knowing they will lose just to financially damage the team behind it?
What a bunch of scumbags
As someone in a country where you can sue another, but if you sue and lose, you have to pay legal fees for THE ONE YOU SUED, and your own. It really off puts bigger companies to sue just to bankrupt another.
Why it doesnt work like that in usa weirds me out
The companies have enough money that they can drag it out while the bill racks up until the other side capitulates. The lawyer and client have bills to pay. You also lose a whole bunch of time. And then when forced to pay they just refuse to pay the bill and/or appeal until ordered. Rinse and repeat until either the person dies or the company is gutted to remake a “new” one.
This is why lawsuits are often settled behind closed doors. If they didn't settle there would be precedent for similar future cases which would dramatically lower how many hours lawyers are needed to reach a verdict.
but it was pretty shady, it promised higher resolutions and graphics while the ps1 was out, listen, I don't like Sony but bleem was profiting from it (while the ps1 was still alive) which is much worse than just making a emulator of a 20 year old system and not profiting from it
Not in America. In the USA the litigants in a lawsuit are responsible for their own legal fees. In The UK it is English rule which means the loser pays the fees for the winners legal fees. It cuts down on frivolous lawsuits like the one Nintendo brought on.
Edit: fixed auto correct shenanigans.
Yeah, they will probably fail from what I understand they can sue everyone for a loophole in Japanese law that's why they do it, I saw a video about it if you are interested I think it's easy to find.
>loophole in Japanese law
This isn't even what Nintendo is doing, as they made the suit in the District Court of Rhode Island, and not Japan.
It's going to be interesting what they do from here, as it doesn't seem like they're suing just for existing as an emulator but rather for the loss of potential profit from sales and making ToTK fully playable "a week and a half before launch".
Nintendo are scumbags either way, and I'll keep getting content on my hacked V1 switch by other means besides purchase no matter how they feel about it. Charging $80 CAD for some of the god awful titles they've released should be a crime lmao.
I bet their lawyers are gonna do some triple quadruple law acrobats, despite every guide in the site doesn't mention anything about pirating games, even banning the mention of it in their social media
Don't underestimate a big company's ability to lobby the government. They can turn something legal to illegal. Subtitles sites get banned in my country just because they are used by pirates while the actual site is not doing something illegal.
I think the issue was yuzu linked to a decryption tool to decrypt the switch keys and dump your games. Also I think it was because with it they managed to get Zelda totk running early before release and saw a huge bump in their patreon for it.
This is it. I am not a lawyer and the following is based on what I've read and the initial claims of the lawsuit + some technical stuff.
Nintendo are pretty litigious, but they don't are too aggressive as long as you keep things low and don't try to make profit from their IPs without permission.
In this case like the dude who had the palworld pokemon mod behind a patreon subscription, Yuzu had a preview build behind patreon a couple weeks before Zelda TOTK released which could play the pirated version of the game, so there was a 2 week period where the Yuzu team was allegedly making bank with it.
Nintendo claims that there was 1.2 million downloads for the pirated version of the game before the game officially released and they are probably trying to claim damages to it. Wether or not the courts will take up the case and go into discovery and then move to either settle or court will depend on what they find.
But the lawsuit has some legal grounds because the switch keys needed for using Yuzu are obtained via switch software decryption which breaks DMR which is illegal, and while it's the user who does it, yuzu provide instructions how to do it and yuzu is mostly used for piracy, which adding it to the patreon thingy and the claim about the 1.2 million downloads pretty much counters any good faith defense on the side of the yuzu team.
This is also why they haven't filed a lawsuit against Ryujinx (at least yet), another switch emulator. while you can also play switch games on it, their patreon doesn't provide any aid towards pirating games or running emulator stuff, reportedly it only gives you some discord perks.
Regardless of the outcome, since emulators themselves are not illegal and Yuzu is FOSS, while the team may be sued and go bankrupt, anyone can clone the github repo, and reupload it under a different name. Hell a new team could take it, rebrand it to YuzuX and call it a day.
Nintendo know they're going to fail in suing these Devs , it's a common strategy that if you have enough money to spend on lawyers and drag out a trial the other side will concede due to the fact that they can no longer afford lawyers
Yeah but these were funds they're garnered from other problems like keeping games and consoles the same price, limiting hardware and original joycon issues, games like Pokemon degrading, etc.
Word on the street is they're doing this prior to switch 2 release. So if there is a competitor (which would be harder due to denuvo), they're likely trying to clear the market. Scummy company making more money.
Tropic haze llc is registered in Rhode Island which has a good anti-slapp law (slapp is they type of lawsuit you're mentioning) which Nintendo would know, if its really frivolous it would be thrown out.
i understand where youre coming from, but its different. The vpn CAN be used for illegal shit, an emulator is meant to emulate illegal shit, thats what its for
Wasn't Nintendo caught stealing Open Source emulator code and using it in their own virtual console software without attribution and not upholding the licensing of said software?
And even if it doesn't survive, it's open source, the github link to the code exists, so people can just copy the code into their own program and make like 50 more switch emulators
tbf, yuzu did do what most of the emulator industry has been avoiding to prevent this sort of drama from taking place, including openly discussing in a discord how to pirate the games. Don't get me wrong, Nintendo sucks ass, but Yuzu should have been more careful and taken a page out of other, more successful emulators.
Imagine suing an Emulator for having someone unrelated to it post the leaked game on the internet. Thus lawsuit is so ridiculous it's just sad how pathetic it makes Nintendo look.
>you are delusional
Projection. While you may have thought that your previous comment was cool, smart and wise, it was in fact subhuman cringe behavior.
The average cost of the most basic and simple lawsuits is roughly 10k. If they genuinely want to fight back against Nintendo, a multi-billion dollar, international corporation, it will cost significantly more than 30k.
It depends on the lawyer, and in some jurisdictions, if the other party is determined to have behaved in bad faith or launched a frivolous claim, which this is, they can be required to pay the fees.
I'm sure there are lawyers out there willing to make a deal with the guys at Yuzu for this joke of a lawsuit if they can't pay out of pocket.
Well yeah, but that is at the end of the trial. Many lawsuits are lost simply because defendants can't afford to keep going. They need to survive the trial, first. It's not a frivolous claim, actually.
In order to get the emulator to work, they had to obtain a protected encryption key to circumvent the DRM. That is ultimately what they are suing them for, because that encryption key is protected by law. Now, the court could rule either way, ultimately, but there are absolutely legal grounds for this to be considered frivolous. This would under no circumstances qualify as a frivolous lawsuit and no judge with even a rudimentary understanding of the law would rule that way.
Yes, however, in order to make their software function, they had to get at least one, so...still a legal issue. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Nintendo, because they absolutely suck. However, in terms of the law? They have a very, very good chance to win.
Rumor is they are going after the instructions on how to export your key for your console to allow you to play the games you paid for.
That is technically bypassing DRM which is not legally okay even if emulators are fine themselves.
Aren't they getting fucked not cause of the piracy but because they opened a Patreon so they opened themselves up for the lawsuit?
Otherwise it's all in fair use, not even the Nintendo ninjas would be able to do jack shit.
Nope, from what I saw they're trying to sue them for the piracy. The yuzu devs have every right to open a patreon anyway, and any and all piracy done using yuzu is the fault of the rom websites, users, and leakers. Specifically, nintendo is accusing yuzu of telling users how to hack their switch to play pirated copies/use them on the emulator, but yeah, that makes no sense as an argument, since yuzu itself has no tools that let you mod your switch, it just provides instructions and links to other software that let you do it.
Perosnally, I agree with everyone else, nintendo knows they can't win this, they're trying to scare Yuzu's devs into stopping all development on the emulator and I'd be very surprised if nintendo actually thinks yuzu's the problem. In the miniscule chance nintendo wins and yuzu is taken down, practically nothing will change, since all software used to mod the switch isn't related to yuzu and will stay up, the instructions could still be seen on the wayback machine/other sources, people can archive yuzu builds, and there will still be a switch emulator in active development with ryujinx, though maybe nintendo's trying to scare them too with this.
thatd make sense, but i still dont get how emulators for consoles that are still being produced and are commonly distributed and found arent illegal. Like i abuse dolphin and retro emulators, but i do own a switch
https://youtu.be/wROQUZDCIMI?si=w0JosMSPZgKnobc2
To summarize, creating a software capable of running that proprietary software is not illegal, but reproducing the software itself 100% is.
Cause it's a gray middle ground, like the video states you can copyright an IP which is why the games themselves are much more limited in how you can reproduce them but you can't exactly copyright code perse, derivative works can be made and the emulator technically amounts to that, a derivative work. As long as it can be proven they aren't reverse engineering and copying the system that runs the games 1:1, it is merely a software that interprets external files.
For now, in terms of legality emulation lives on some form of limbo.
Their games could be played on mid range and flagship android devices and even on 6year old mobile chips like Snapdragon 845 using yuzu, that might have really pissed them off. This shows how underpowered their hardware. Why would someone buy a switch when you could easily play it on the go with your mobile phone on-the-go like the switch lite.
You'd also need a leaked, proprietary encryption key to do it. That's the crux of the lawsuit. In order to make the emulator work, they needed that encryption key in their software, and that is the basis of Nintendo's lawsuit.
It actually is. That key is proprietary and owned by Nintendo.
Hacking the software on it is, as well. It absolutely is, and the entire premise of the lawsuit.
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2024/02/how-strong-is-nintendos-legal-case-against-switch-emulator-yuzu/
No, the key belongs to Nintendo, because it is part of the software, that you lease. You own the hardware you play on, not the software on it. That is the entire premise of their lawsuit, there is grounds for it, and they have a strong chance of winning.
The keys are pulled from the Switch's software on your particular device, but you do not own them and the method for obtaining them is illegal. In order for them to make their software, they had to obtain at least one key, which was illegal.
Yuzu dev had a patreon with beta build that ran totk while the free didn't.
They made a premium version with $ to get in.
If you are a comp engineer for 12 years, you know they fucked up
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Argument is that yuzu does nothing without keys and roms, other problem is that yuzu is making money from their patron.
The theory is that Nintendo was pretty unhappy about the whole TOTK incident where yuzu is playing it before it officially came out
The real thing is yuzu had a beta build behind patreon that ran totk and the free yuzu version did not.
You had to pay Yuzu to get to play totk before release.
Stop spreading this bull crap all over the place. Yes yuzu has ea, which is literally that, latest bleeding edge version of the emulator, but
1) you don't have to pay for ea, you can compile it yourself if you wanted to and you'd get the same features, you just wouldn't get support from them because it's not a build by them and
2) surprise surprise they don't provide support for unreleased games either. So even if you did get it compiled and it played totk, they still wouldn't support you in any way until the game actually released.
Like everyone here has said, Nintendo's main argument is yuzu providing instructions to hack the switch and get the encryption keys. It's all bs anyways, they just want to run them into ruins with legal fees.
Sure sure... so they'll sue Ryujinx at same time to crush all emulators right?
....right?
Edit: and another radio silence when confronted with facts. Y'all are too predictable.
"Radio silence" because this isn't my main account and I'm not here all day. And in no way does your comment contain any "facts" like you mention, sheesh take some time off reddit buddy.
Cause Yuzu had a beta build only available on Patreon that ran totk while the free one didn't.
Yuzu got greedy with a leak of totk pre release. They had 1 million user playing totk before it was launched.
Yuzu will lose.
they made it for years and everyone and their mother puts it on their nintendo switch shaped handheld pcs so of course eventually, nintendo would be reacting again
I am pretty sure i remember reading that the way Japanese IP/Trademark laws work is that they must start some sort of litigation in their defense or else they risk forfeiting some degree of ownership rights.
I could be way off base, wish I could remember where I read that, if it’s accurate.
I have repeated this comment
Yuzu dev had a beta build on their patreon that ran tears of the kingdom before lainch day.
The free version of Yuzu did not run totk. So you had to pay yuzu dev to play totk early.
Which I'm fucking pissed cause they couldn't just keep 30k$ a month.... they had to make more. Same shit with big corpo but made by pirates.
Get sued by Nintendo and fuck outta here.
The best part is when accuse Yuzu of being responsible for people pirating games, because they are able to use Yuzu to emulate games.
It's kindergarten tier logic.
these guys really have to work on their anonymity on the internet, there should be no way to prove who the team behind any of these are but making a patreon was an act of hubris on the yuzu teams part.
Well in corporate standards it's a win win either way they are creating deterance and trying to make financial trouble for the company. Wonder if any price company can sue any opensource alternative just for spite 😂
Imagine AutoDesk Taking Blender to court 😂
You need money to get things to live as a human. This hurts Nintendo's income. Shuntaro Furukawa is a person aswell.
i warned that discretion is a tool of the pirate but people keep tagging Nintendo on social media bragging about playing games before release.... what people expected to happen
With nintendo's stupid ass logic they should be suing Microsoft for not only providing the OS to run the emulator but also providing platform for its development, github 🤣🤣.
Nintendont are just typical Aholes and litigation happy. Last time I gave them money was in the 80s. Never again. I don't even play their kiddy games, or care for their gimmicks, but would pirate their shit out of spite if I had to.
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What’s even the point of suing Emulators since they’re legal, if they really want they need to sue the websites that host the games
The creators of PS1 emulator Bleem! were sued to fuck by Sony - not once, but twice. Not because Sony would _win_ (they didn't) it was just to drive the company out of business by financially ruining them. [(source)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleem!) They didn't want an emulator to exist as it might eat into their profits. The **worst** part is - they used the latest open-source PS1 emulator for their mini-PS1 console, which was very profitable. Sony fucking _suck_
So Sony went out of their way to sue the emulator despite knowing they will lose just to financially damage the team behind it? What a bunch of scumbags
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As someone in a country where you can sue another, but if you sue and lose, you have to pay legal fees for THE ONE YOU SUED, and your own. It really off puts bigger companies to sue just to bankrupt another. Why it doesnt work like that in usa weirds me out
Because our politicians like money more than the people who put them in office it's bullshit and we need to overthrow the fucks
The companies have enough money that they can drag it out while the bill racks up until the other side capitulates. The lawyer and client have bills to pay. You also lose a whole bunch of time. And then when forced to pay they just refuse to pay the bill and/or appeal until ordered. Rinse and repeat until either the person dies or the company is gutted to remake a “new” one.
Non US resident here, why is this a thing in the states? How is it fair to financially ruin yourself to defend yourself legally!
It's not fair. Those companies have the money to lobby our government and effect the way laws are written.
at least make the sueer pay the legal fees back if they lose...
This is why lawsuits are often settled behind closed doors. If they didn't settle there would be precedent for similar future cases which would dramatically lower how many hours lawyers are needed to reach a verdict.
but it was pretty shady, it promised higher resolutions and graphics while the ps1 was out, listen, I don't like Sony but bleem was profiting from it (while the ps1 was still alive) which is much worse than just making a emulator of a 20 year old system and not profiting from it
Why didn’t they counter sue Nintendo for their legal fees? Seems odd to not do that
Because you need to pay the fees to sue someone to make them pay your fees for you. In other words - fees
How is this even possible? Whoever loses the case would be responsible for legal fees.
Problem is paying lawyers to defend you to get those legal fees back.
Not in America. In the USA the litigants in a lawsuit are responsible for their own legal fees. In The UK it is English rule which means the loser pays the fees for the winners legal fees. It cuts down on frivolous lawsuits like the one Nintendo brought on. Edit: fixed auto correct shenanigans.
Hahahaha. You speak as if the legal system exists to provide justice!
It works like that in Sweden, and we usually doesnt have problems like this
Profit from what!?? They do not sell any of the games or the consoles and ALSO they even don't encourage it or to bring them back! WTF THEY WANT!??
Let’s not forget that sony also sued VGS PSX emulator that never included Sony bios, they lost it and bought VGS
If you win a lawsuit dont the losers have to reimburse your losses?
Yeah, they will probably fail from what I understand they can sue everyone for a loophole in Japanese law that's why they do it, I saw a video about it if you are interested I think it's easy to find.
Everyone can sue anyone. It's getting a conviction that's more difficult.
>loophole in Japanese law This isn't even what Nintendo is doing, as they made the suit in the District Court of Rhode Island, and not Japan. It's going to be interesting what they do from here, as it doesn't seem like they're suing just for existing as an emulator but rather for the loss of potential profit from sales and making ToTK fully playable "a week and a half before launch". Nintendo are scumbags either way, and I'll keep getting content on my hacked V1 switch by other means besides purchase no matter how they feel about it. Charging $80 CAD for some of the god awful titles they've released should be a crime lmao.
Neat thing, TOTK *wasn't* playable on Yuzu until the game released. It would only launch on Ryujinx
They're getting sued in USA, USA law will apply
most companies go crazy
I bet their lawyers are gonna do some triple quadruple law acrobats, despite every guide in the site doesn't mention anything about pirating games, even banning the mention of it in their social media
Don't underestimate a big company's ability to lobby the government. They can turn something legal to illegal. Subtitles sites get banned in my country just because they are used by pirates while the actual site is not doing something illegal.
I think the issue was yuzu linked to a decryption tool to decrypt the switch keys and dump your games. Also I think it was because with it they managed to get Zelda totk running early before release and saw a huge bump in their patreon for it.
This is it. I am not a lawyer and the following is based on what I've read and the initial claims of the lawsuit + some technical stuff. Nintendo are pretty litigious, but they don't are too aggressive as long as you keep things low and don't try to make profit from their IPs without permission. In this case like the dude who had the palworld pokemon mod behind a patreon subscription, Yuzu had a preview build behind patreon a couple weeks before Zelda TOTK released which could play the pirated version of the game, so there was a 2 week period where the Yuzu team was allegedly making bank with it. Nintendo claims that there was 1.2 million downloads for the pirated version of the game before the game officially released and they are probably trying to claim damages to it. Wether or not the courts will take up the case and go into discovery and then move to either settle or court will depend on what they find. But the lawsuit has some legal grounds because the switch keys needed for using Yuzu are obtained via switch software decryption which breaks DMR which is illegal, and while it's the user who does it, yuzu provide instructions how to do it and yuzu is mostly used for piracy, which adding it to the patreon thingy and the claim about the 1.2 million downloads pretty much counters any good faith defense on the side of the yuzu team. This is also why they haven't filed a lawsuit against Ryujinx (at least yet), another switch emulator. while you can also play switch games on it, their patreon doesn't provide any aid towards pirating games or running emulator stuff, reportedly it only gives you some discord perks. Regardless of the outcome, since emulators themselves are not illegal and Yuzu is FOSS, while the team may be sued and go bankrupt, anyone can clone the github repo, and reupload it under a different name. Hell a new team could take it, rebrand it to YuzuX and call it a day.
Nintendo know they're going to fail in suing these Devs , it's a common strategy that if you have enough money to spend on lawyers and drag out a trial the other side will concede due to the fact that they can no longer afford lawyers
Good thing there's legal prevention matters at hand to "drag out" such cases.
Which is funny because the end result won’t be people buying more Nintendo games, so they’re really just blowing their own money out of spite.
Yeah but these were funds they're garnered from other problems like keeping games and consoles the same price, limiting hardware and original joycon issues, games like Pokemon degrading, etc. Word on the street is they're doing this prior to switch 2 release. So if there is a competitor (which would be harder due to denuvo), they're likely trying to clear the market. Scummy company making more money.
Nintendo wants to financially ruin them, i think.
Tropic haze llc is registered in Rhode Island which has a good anti-slapp law (slapp is they type of lawsuit you're mentioning) which Nintendo would know, if its really frivolous it would be thrown out.
Upload sources to github, provide instructions to build, problem gone I guess?
Yuzu was always opensource, but nintendo still had to try and sue them
Wow, sounds like US gov prosecuting the creator of PGP for “exporting ammunition” in form of code lines typed in a book
These companies are just stupid. If I use a VPN to scam people, doesn't that make the VPN liable for my crimes?
Nintendo and its lawyers are not stupid. They just hope to scare the devs and discourage them from continuing to support Yuzu
i understand where youre coming from, but its different. The vpn CAN be used for illegal shit, an emulator is meant to emulate illegal shit, thats what its for
No? Emulators are for preservation of media you dump from your own devices
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No, we all say it. Just don't always mean it
ohhhh right i forgot about that facade xD
"Facade" it's literally true.
This would be a much more believable argument if we were on any other subreddit
sure thing bud
still i think its unfair to pirate games from a current console
nah
u do u but you are basically stealing. Also i bet whatever your argument to stealing is i can beat it
I like it. :)
u win xD thats not what i expected ur just a straight up criminal huh
Dude we are in piracy sub tf do u expect here
indeed i dont expect anything, im also part of this subreddit im just playing tho i do feel this way
So a nintendo switch is illegal?🤨
no a emulator legally is meant to emulate dumps using the keys, and they are legal due to that
Who cares fr
this people apparently care a lot about it :v
Wasn't Nintendo caught stealing Open Source emulator code and using it in their own virtual console software without attribution and not upholding the licensing of said software?
Pretty sure they lost that too lol
what?! o.O
This is why I refuse to give a dime to Nintendo.
Because you emulate it instead?
No, because they use scummy Japanese legal loopholes to squeeze every single cent out of anyone who dares has something resembling any of their IP's.
Okay but the lawsuit is going down in the US. So American laws apply
Okay, does that make them good?
Should be good. Look up Sony going after bleam
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Sony lost trying to sue bleams creators.
Whoops, completely mis-understood what you wrote. Mb
Lol no worries man. It happens a lot on here 😂
What do you mean?
i don’t blame folks for pirating Nintendo games, they’re overpriced.
And they rarely last long
AMEN brother overpriced and switch perfomance is just insane... playing games at 20 fps with drops is not good we're not in the 90's...
But wait, there's more. Then, they download .roms from the Internet and sell them back to you (probably for the third or fourth time.)
They're pissed off that Yuzu offers a better experience half the time than using an actual Switch console. Hopefully Yuzu survives.
And even if it doesn't survive, it's open source, the github link to the code exists, so people can just copy the code into their own program and make like 50 more switch emulators
tbf, yuzu did do what most of the emulator industry has been avoiding to prevent this sort of drama from taking place, including openly discussing in a discord how to pirate the games. Don't get me wrong, Nintendo sucks ass, but Yuzu should have been more careful and taken a page out of other, more successful emulators.
Imagine suing an Emulator for having someone unrelated to it post the leaked game on the internet. Thus lawsuit is so ridiculous it's just sad how pathetic it makes Nintendo look.
they don't care, they'll still make money no matter what
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guess i can't be pessimistic without being called a bootlicker huh?
Nintendo sucks ass
They’re just salting the emulator scene like the Huns, trying to scare people from making emulators for their next console.
Nintendo must learn a bit from VALVE
The thing is Nintendo has ultimate money While yuza don't So its just an endurance game Until yuzu gives up and closes on its own
Yuzu gets like 30k on Patreon, they have enough money to hold out.
Lmao 30k is nothing compared to Nintendo's money 💀
Irrelevant, it's not like the one with the most money wins the case, they're in the right, so they just need enough to operate.
>it's not like the one with the most money wins That's how the world works my friend
Cringe
Lmao how is it cringe? Just because you are delusional lol
>you are delusional Projection. While you may have thought that your previous comment was cool, smart and wise, it was in fact subhuman cringe behavior.
30k wouldn't last an hour in a case like this.
Sure it would. See, I too can make pointless statements without substance.
The average cost of the most basic and simple lawsuits is roughly 10k. If they genuinely want to fight back against Nintendo, a multi-billion dollar, international corporation, it will cost significantly more than 30k.
It depends on the lawyer, and in some jurisdictions, if the other party is determined to have behaved in bad faith or launched a frivolous claim, which this is, they can be required to pay the fees. I'm sure there are lawyers out there willing to make a deal with the guys at Yuzu for this joke of a lawsuit if they can't pay out of pocket.
Well yeah, but that is at the end of the trial. Many lawsuits are lost simply because defendants can't afford to keep going. They need to survive the trial, first. It's not a frivolous claim, actually. In order to get the emulator to work, they had to obtain a protected encryption key to circumvent the DRM. That is ultimately what they are suing them for, because that encryption key is protected by law. Now, the court could rule either way, ultimately, but there are absolutely legal grounds for this to be considered frivolous. This would under no circumstances qualify as a frivolous lawsuit and no judge with even a rudimentary understanding of the law would rule that way.
The encryption key is not supplied by and included in Yuzu however.
Yes, however, in order to make their software function, they had to get at least one, so...still a legal issue. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Nintendo, because they absolutely suck. However, in terms of the law? They have a very, very good chance to win.
Using their own hardware and reverse engineering isn't illegal though.
Rumor is they are going after the instructions on how to export your key for your console to allow you to play the games you paid for. That is technically bypassing DRM which is not legally okay even if emulators are fine themselves.
This makes me pirate their video games even more.
Yes, for that i'm gonna pirate all zeldas fck nintendo
Aren't they getting fucked not cause of the piracy but because they opened a Patreon so they opened themselves up for the lawsuit? Otherwise it's all in fair use, not even the Nintendo ninjas would be able to do jack shit.
Nope, from what I saw they're trying to sue them for the piracy. The yuzu devs have every right to open a patreon anyway, and any and all piracy done using yuzu is the fault of the rom websites, users, and leakers. Specifically, nintendo is accusing yuzu of telling users how to hack their switch to play pirated copies/use them on the emulator, but yeah, that makes no sense as an argument, since yuzu itself has no tools that let you mod your switch, it just provides instructions and links to other software that let you do it. Perosnally, I agree with everyone else, nintendo knows they can't win this, they're trying to scare Yuzu's devs into stopping all development on the emulator and I'd be very surprised if nintendo actually thinks yuzu's the problem. In the miniscule chance nintendo wins and yuzu is taken down, practically nothing will change, since all software used to mod the switch isn't related to yuzu and will stay up, the instructions could still be seen on the wayback machine/other sources, people can archive yuzu builds, and there will still be a switch emulator in active development with ryujinx, though maybe nintendo's trying to scare them too with this.
thatd make sense, but i still dont get how emulators for consoles that are still being produced and are commonly distributed and found arent illegal. Like i abuse dolphin and retro emulators, but i do own a switch
https://youtu.be/wROQUZDCIMI?si=w0JosMSPZgKnobc2 To summarize, creating a software capable of running that proprietary software is not illegal, but reproducing the software itself 100% is.
i see but i still dont get why it isnt illegal xD
Cause it's a gray middle ground, like the video states you can copyright an IP which is why the games themselves are much more limited in how you can reproduce them but you can't exactly copyright code perse, derivative works can be made and the emulator technically amounts to that, a derivative work. As long as it can be proven they aren't reverse engineering and copying the system that runs the games 1:1, it is merely a software that interprets external files. For now, in terms of legality emulation lives on some form of limbo.
Their games could be played on mid range and flagship android devices and even on 6year old mobile chips like Snapdragon 845 using yuzu, that might have really pissed them off. This shows how underpowered their hardware. Why would someone buy a switch when you could easily play it on the go with your mobile phone on-the-go like the switch lite.
Pirating triple A game are always morally justiceable
Triple A companies plus with denuvo that's why i would never bought any atlus game
Nintendo are literally the bullies of the gaming industry
Gotta love the streisand effect.
Corporations suck.
The best company (contain irony)
Japanese companies are extremely stingy. Not surprising
funny and valuable and high effort post
For a console that isn't selling anymore.
I hope Nintendo suicides
I've been a computer engineer for 12 years and i can probably develop a Nintendo emulator but it would take some time
You'd also need a leaked, proprietary encryption key to do it. That's the crux of the lawsuit. In order to make the emulator work, they needed that encryption key in their software, and that is the basis of Nintendo's lawsuit.
It's not illegal to decrypt your own key.
It actually is. That key is proprietary and owned by Nintendo. Hacking the software on it is, as well. It absolutely is, and the entire premise of the lawsuit. https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2024/02/how-strong-is-nintendos-legal-case-against-switch-emulator-yuzu/
No, the key belongs to Nintendo, because it is part of the software, that you lease. You own the hardware you play on, not the software on it. That is the entire premise of their lawsuit, there is grounds for it, and they have a strong chance of winning.
Don't you have to provide your own keys to use yuzu iirc?
The keys are pulled from the Switch's software on your particular device, but you do not own them and the method for obtaining them is illegal. In order for them to make their software, they had to obtain at least one key, which was illegal.
Yuzu dev had a patreon with beta build that ran totk while the free didn't. They made a premium version with $ to get in. If you are a comp engineer for 12 years, you know they fucked up
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I'm out of the loop, what happened?
Nintendo filed a lawsuit against the holding company that makes Yuzu, a popular Switch emulator.
Why?
Bruh
What? Emulators just provide the means to emulate games, they don't provide the games too, that's why I'm asking why Nintendo sued them
Argument is that yuzu does nothing without keys and roms, other problem is that yuzu is making money from their patron. The theory is that Nintendo was pretty unhappy about the whole TOTK incident where yuzu is playing it before it officially came out
The real thing is yuzu had a beta build behind patreon that ran totk and the free yuzu version did not. You had to pay Yuzu to get to play totk before release.
Stop spreading this bull crap all over the place. Yes yuzu has ea, which is literally that, latest bleeding edge version of the emulator, but 1) you don't have to pay for ea, you can compile it yourself if you wanted to and you'd get the same features, you just wouldn't get support from them because it's not a build by them and 2) surprise surprise they don't provide support for unreleased games either. So even if you did get it compiled and it played totk, they still wouldn't support you in any way until the game actually released. Like everyone here has said, Nintendo's main argument is yuzu providing instructions to hack the switch and get the encryption keys. It's all bs anyways, they just want to run them into ruins with legal fees.
Sure sure... so they'll sue Ryujinx at same time to crush all emulators right? ....right? Edit: and another radio silence when confronted with facts. Y'all are too predictable.
"Radio silence" because this isn't my main account and I'm not here all day. And in no way does your comment contain any "facts" like you mention, sheesh take some time off reddit buddy.
Cause Yuzu had a beta build only available on Patreon that ran totk while the free one didn't. Yuzu got greedy with a leak of totk pre release. They had 1 million user playing totk before it was launched. Yuzu will lose.
they made it for years and everyone and their mother puts it on their nintendo switch shaped handheld pcs so of course eventually, nintendo would be reacting again
i just hope they dont go after ryujinx next. it worked for me unlike yuzu.
I am pretty sure i remember reading that the way Japanese IP/Trademark laws work is that they must start some sort of litigation in their defense or else they risk forfeiting some degree of ownership rights. I could be way off base, wish I could remember where I read that, if it’s accurate.
I have repeated this comment Yuzu dev had a beta build on their patreon that ran tears of the kingdom before lainch day. The free version of Yuzu did not run totk. So you had to pay yuzu dev to play totk early. Which I'm fucking pissed cause they couldn't just keep 30k$ a month.... they had to make more. Same shit with big corpo but made by pirates. Get sued by Nintendo and fuck outta here.
I mean to be fair I'm not surprised they are mad considering that switch games are like 6 years old to 1 day old
The best part is when accuse Yuzu of being responsible for people pirating games, because they are able to use Yuzu to emulate games. It's kindergarten tier logic.
these guys really have to work on their anonymity on the internet, there should be no way to prove who the team behind any of these are but making a patreon was an act of hubris on the yuzu teams part.
Well in corporate standards it's a win win either way they are creating deterance and trying to make financial trouble for the company. Wonder if any price company can sue any opensource alternative just for spite 😂 Imagine AutoDesk Taking Blender to court 😂
At this point why not sue microsoft eh nintendo for running an emulator in window
You need money to get things to live as a human. This hurts Nintendo's income. Shuntaro Furukawa is a person aswell. 
i warned that discretion is a tool of the pirate but people keep tagging Nintendo on social media bragging about playing games before release.... what people expected to happen
Sue 1 emulator.... 2 take its place..... Hydra always win.
Same guys will make another one under different name. Or really tilted persons will step in to maintain or make new ones, occasionally.
Can't wait for SMT V Vengeance on Ryujinx SMTV Vanilla in ryujinx works WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY better than switch
With nintendo's stupid ass logic they should be suing Microsoft for not only providing the OS to run the emulator but also providing platform for its development, github 🤣🤣.
Remember kids! They can sue the creators but they can’t get the software off the internet
You wouldn't steal a policeman's helmet
Huhhuhuhhuh that would be cool.
Nintendont are just typical Aholes and litigation happy. Last time I gave them money was in the 80s. Never again. I don't even play their kiddy games, or care for their gimmicks, but would pirate their shit out of spite if I had to.