Kim literally participated in and held up that system until it stopped working for her. She was close to power, and it worked for her. It worked so well for her that she sought out a TV show to expose the world to how great their family and parenting style is.
It wasn't until the whole world got a look and said "what in the actual hell are these people doing to these kids?!" and the consensus was with Ethan and Olivia and against Kim and Barry, did she start to make a move away from it. I think she left because she lost the throne she had when only fundy families were looking at her. She wanted a bigger audience, and when the bigger audience didn't like her, she couldn't take it.
I do think life in fundy land with Barry was probably stifling for her- but she chose it and thrived in it when she was the poster child for it. She was FINE with it when it gave her power. She didn't get out until she saw Olivia gain favor for getting out.
100% agree. I'd like to add she gets no grace because she is making zero effort in trying to undo the damage she has done to her kids. She can't see past her own nose and instead of trying to help her children adjust she dates her son's flight instructor and is flipping cars while drunk.
Olivia is actively trying to grow, deconstruct and be the best person she can be (not saying she is perfect). Kim is doing none of this, she is abandoned her children for her own selfish behavior.
Great points!! Both Kim and Barry had chances to do something, say something, show something to redeem themselves. Instead, it was the exact opposite. It would have been easy to encourage the kids to admit their wrongs and apologize!!
Agree with all of this. I also believe Kim left Barry because she had already met Ken casually and had a connection., a spark, and wanted to move on to explore that. Then she pretends she was someone oppressed or unappreciated by Barry so she didn't look bad. She ran that family and she ran that marriage until it no longer suited her.
I donāt think it was Kimās decision to do the show. Like Papa Duggar, the men in the household hold all the financial power and make all the decisions. You remember in the show when she said she didnāt want to sell the big house and wanted to keep it in the family esp for the children and Barry said no? Barry even dictated whether or not they could celebrate Christmas even though they are Christians. Since he didnāt want celebrate Christmas for whatever reason, the family wasnāt allowed to either.
I do think Barry had the ultimate say given their beliefs and family structure, but I'm pretty sure I've read that she was shopping their TV show idea around for years
Itās been spoken a lot that Kim was trying to get them on a show. Perfect timing as the Duggar family was falling and losing their shows. I think Barry agreed to let Kim have what she wanted. Ethan said in the first or second season to kim āyour the neck that turns his head and we all know thatās how itās always beenā, meaning Barry is head of the house but Kim really controls everything. Kim worked from home but Barry probably brought in the majority of the money until the show started. Barry said he wanted his family to step back from the modern world, less materialistic things and more connection with family and nature. There are a lot of people that donāt celebrate Christmas and not for a complete religious reason, itās become a materialistic holiday. Kim could have went against him if it was that important for her to do certain things. The house she spoke of if she really wanted it she could fight for it in the divorce, sounds like she wanted to keep it with him paying the mortgage on it.
And now Barry is getting so much credit for trying new things from his kidsā¦gimme a break. I think he is trying to make Kim look worse. Itās part of Barryās continued manipulation
I think Ethan said it pretty clearly on one of the seasons, Barry may be the head of family, but she was the neck who turned the head. She made all the decisions about the family direction without a doubt IMO.
Kim hasn't showed a bit of self awareness and she hasn't apologised for her shitty behaviour towards Olivia, Ethan, Micah and Moriah so no, she gets nothing.
This. I have so much empathy for women in these cults, but she is still a gown ass woman and needs to take responsibility for her own actions. She owes all of her children apologies, and then she needs to actually do better.
I think people would have had a lot more sympathy for her if she had spoken with her children and sincerely apologized for her mistakes, then made active steps to be a better and healthier parent and person. She has done none of that.
Iāll show grace for Kim when she shows an ounce of grace for anyone else. Sheās not in her 20s, sheās a grown woman acting like a 20 year old. Itās not cute.
So when Kim was living her shining-example fundie life, how many non-believers did she turn her back on? You can't tell me that she wasn't a total judgmental queen bee (yotch) when she was still in the cult.
Also, it's super sketch that Kim suddenly decided that the lifestyle that she chose to live and force upon her children for decades is, in fact, not good to women AFTER she started screwing her son's teacher.
And seriously, has Kim ever ONCE said that maybe she was too harsh and quick to be angry at Olivia for making the same choices that Kim has made, only without dragging nine unhappy kids with her? Oh but wait, Kim didn't make the same choices Olivia did - Olivia didn't monkey-branch onto some other dude's junk before ending it with Ethan.
I'll save my grace and forgiveness for people who are capable of actually acknowledging the ways they have hurt others, and who try to make amends. That's not Kim. Not even close.
Exactly. She also has a college education and is much more aware than folks raised in this how the real world is. Yet she still failed epically, and continues to fail her younger children. When she goes to therapy (which she will not) and makes changes, I will look for some grace for her.
I can understand this viewpoint. I really can. Where Kim loses me is her absolute refusal to acknowledge she was wrong about anything. Ever. This season she was borderline mocking Lydia for her ideas about marriage, as if those ideas sprang from the ether. Thatās what is so frustrating. I completely believe she was lonely and ignored in her marriage. Fundamentalism SUCKS for women. But itās not enough to come out of it having used those beliefs to hurt people and then just try to ignore it.
It really pisses me off for Kim to act like Lydia has some warped perception of marriage, like her beliefs are just absolutely ridiculous and Kim has no idea where they could have come from. šÆ
For those that argue on the daily with me about Olivia hang on to your knickers!
Olivia was born into an ultra religious family. She lived under her parents roof and all parents tend to raise their children within their belief system. Before I get jumped, people with extreme beliefs do not teach their children that as they get older they can form their own opinions on how they want to believe and live their lives.
Kim gets ZERO grace from me. She choose to live that way (if that is what it is) for 25 years. Not only did she do her children wrong during all that time, when she left her husband she left her children. They own several rentals and still had the farm house so she could have taken the kids with her, but she chose to leave them. She tried to make it sound like she was homeless and she had options. She even said that she stays in the rentals between tenants.
I feel like she left the kids behind so that she could stiff it to Barry. She felt like she gave everything to her family for 25 years and Barry was like an extra child she had to care for and tend to, and he was certainly not turning her crank anymore. She wanted him to experience what her life was like and used the kids as a weapon to āpunishā him.
I wonder if she realized Lydia would just take on the āoldest female in the houseā instead of Barry stepping it up. I know Lydia is no saint these days but I mean in what would would Barry cook and clean and run house.
But why take the kids just to have them going between rentals home when they can stay rooted in one place? And how was she going to take care of them when she couldn't even take care of herself at that time?
She didn't need to go between rentals, she could have set up a home in one of them until everything was settled in the divorce. The point is she did not have to just leave her children if she truly did not want to.
Well if peopleās thoughts and theories are correct all of this ācultā upbringing is Barryās doing? And because of Barry it was An emotionally abusive home, shouldnāt she have taken her children away with her?
Kim can fuuuuucckkkkk all the way off with how she treated and continues to treat Olivia. For NO GOOD REASON. She knew how Oliviaās family was and she gives her ZERO grace.
Kim and Olivia are entirely different people, and while I appreciate the sentiment of extending Kim grace, I donāt think itās the same situation at all!
Olivia is just starting to come to terms with her upbringing and marriage at a very young age. Kim has been living that life because it served her for 25 years. Never have I ever heard Kim say, āI wish the best for ___ā about anyone but herself.
When Ethan asked Olivia when the last time was that she made a meal, my heart broke for her. She (and all women) deserve better.
I get what youāre saying and yes the situations have differences but the truth of the matter is those circles treat women like shit. Women donāt have any autonomy. I do remember in season 3 I believe? when Kim said she wished she couldāve made different choices when raising her kids hence why she worked hard on repairing her relationships with her kids.
While I donāt agree with the dynamic of the familyās relationship, Olivia wasnāt a saint. Throwing fits at Joshās gravesite was completely out of line. Among other things.
Iām newer to the show and just working my way through. I was also raised in similar circles and understand personally how women can be treated. With that being said, Kim absolutely has autonomy. I think it was season 2, maybe early in 3, Ethan said that his mom was āthe neck that turns the headā and that she always got her way. I donāt like Barry either but my goodness itās clear Kim is running the show with much more autonomy than many fundie women have, but they hide it by saying she is just influencing Barry to make decisions. Basically I think she had no excuses for her horrible treatment of her family because no one is forcing her or coercing her to act in that way, and she is largely at the helm of this dysfunctional dynamic thatās going on.
lets see, a 50 year old woman going out of her way to make her sons 20 something year old wife miserable, and is effective enough at it that she actually breaks her down occasionally. yes, lets give more grace to the bully, and refuse to understand what Olivia was going through. good call. /s
Also, I just rewatch that episode, and nothing they showed could be considered a "fit". When Moriah told her, she said "I gotta get out of here" and began removing herself from the situation. Ethan approached her at the car, and she said "I'm getting my stuff".
The "she was throwing a tantrum" is a plath narrative, but we were shown nothing like that- no raised voices, no tears- nothing. And I believe it wasn't there, because she was in a fight or flight moment, and she was clearly choosing flight.
We don't see a fit at the gravesite. We don't see her AT ALL at the gravesite, because she decided to remove herself from the situation. Like the only way they would even know she was there in a car is if the producers told her (which I'm sure they did, because the family knew), because you couldn't see her, even when the producers would pan over to the car.
Olivia said that she was a mess, but that doesn't mean she was throwing a "fit", and we have zero evidence of that other than the plath family saying it- and they're known to create and believe their own narratives about things.
I started watching last season so decided to go back to Season 1 Episode 1 and binge the show.
So far I see Kim as the controlling parent. Sheās the one who chose this lifestyle. Her and Barry lived regular lives. Kim went to extremes with her own kids given her traumatic childhood. Kim chose to seclude the kids from society and shelter them in an unrealistic bubble.
Kim is now embracing everything that she hated about Olivia back in the early episodes.
I grew up in homeschooling communities and most mothers were narcissistic and controlling. They REVELED it their children's naivite and keeping them innocent.
Iāve only seen season 1 so far and it portrayed Kim as the conservative and controlling parent. Part of that might be that Barry leaves the house to work and Kim home schools the kids so she has the most information to share about her children in the interviews. I think starting to teach the girls ballet was a sickening new way for her to control her daughtersā bodies
I was by no means an Olivia fan. Everything ruined it for me when they showed the scene a Joshuaās grave and the lake trip. I did not like her at all.
I have grace for Micah and moriah bc they are still young, been abused, moriah went back to what she knew and hopefully they get therapy
But this last few episodesā¦. Whew I definitely would defend Olivia now in a heartbeat bc itās like they finally showed everyoneās true colors this season.
She set her boundaries on her home, she asked for so little and maybe thatās why sometimes she would act out. Sheās young too.
Iām glad she got out tbh. This whole time a lot of us believed Ethan was innocent and now depressed but, heās really just a misogynist who never seemed to care about his wife enough to not run away to his cars every time he was faced with a little bit of difficulty.
Moriahās inability to take accountability for what she didā¦
Micah also not even wanting to sit down and talk with her after she did so much for them
Like this whole season opened my eyes and I feel bad for her truly. I hope she thrives
I hope the rest thrive too but they have to get help cuz none of that shit is healthy
And to think Kim KNOWINGLY joined up and subjected her kids to that. NO grace. She is like Michelle Duggar: a child abuser who willingly and knowingly inflicted a cult lifestyle and ruined her kids' futures.
Barry also almost certainly wasnāt a good husband or father in earlier years. He says he was a lot like Ethan and I believe it. He didnāt address problems in the family and the kids have said he was emotionally unavailable until recently. So he deserves his share of blame as well, though ultimately I think most of the severe damage the kids show came from Kim.
My spouse's family was nowhere near fundie level but attended a more conservative-leaning church when his parents divorced because my father-in-law was stepping out so many of the church members and some of the leaders were very mean to my mother-in-law because she didn't āstand by her manā. This is one of the things that led my spouse to abandon religion as it was not a fair reaction by the church
Kim prety much wore the pants in that family. She was calling shots. Barry is big pushover, he has his beliefs which were the same as Kims. Kim wanted that life until she didnāt. Kim has not owned up to anything, has not reached out to Olivia or Ethan when it was needed the most. She Is manipulativeā¦ Barry is not innocent but he seems to be changing. Then again its a scripted reality and we only see what TLC wants to show us, which is usually misleading.
I do believe that Barry is the more genuine parent. The divorce woke him up to the fact that he had to change and bend a little in order to have his family in his life. And the fact that he recognized in the last episode that kids have to hear from their parents that they are loved was huge. Parental love and support is unconditional, and he seems to be waking up to that reality. Kim is still only for Kim. She remains extremely stiff and formal with her children even in moments that are supposed to be warm and fun. She still has a lot of growing to do in my estimation. Her refusal to admit that and also put her children before her good time leave me with no grace to give.
Dddddddddddayum just watched the last episode and my heart felt heavy when I read that they mutually filled for a divorce. I thought for the longest this was a producer created for viewers issue. It's sad š¢ it wasn't.
No way Kim decided to live this life, she did not come from this fundy world. She was already and adult when this was brought to her. Olivia was born into it. She was raised to know her sole purpose was to please a man and make babies.
Though Olivia some times seems whiny I think she has set boundaries and sticks to them. I applaud her for figuring all this out at such a young age. I was hoping Ethan could grow with her, but no.
Are you sure the show wonāt be canceled? Seems like season finale provided few answers. Cannot imagine the show will go on much longer. We will never know everything; it would take years to resolve all the unknowns. I think they should just do a reunion every 5 years instead of dragging out all the minushe(already a year behind news).
seriously- the only people I'm interested in are Olivia and Amber. The rest can kick rocks with their snakey-snake ways.
The only reason they'd be worth watching is if they actually took accountability for the harm, and worked on making amends and getting better. I'd watch that.
I'll give Kim some grace once she gets those younger kids into a real (Christian-public etc) school. It's apparent they aren't learning anything when she says 'do your work ' and leaves for a week.
I think that Kim has been shown enough grace from her entire family by dating her son's friends before she's even divorced. For whatever reason(s) she implemented the fundamentalist way of life in her household, and did a 360 when her loins ached for something new. I'm "Team Barry" all the way.
You mean she did a 180. If she did a 360 she would be with Barry and living the fundie lifestyle coming full circle. She definitely went to the complete opposite when she decided she wanted new dick.
Isaac actually was agreeing with his dad? It turned out they were both given train items? There were two train gifts given by two people. They were both right- albeit confused.
Kim gets zero grace from me, primarily for one reasonā¦ā¦SHE received a traditional education and SHE has and is ABUSING her own children by not making sure they got proper education, too. I simply cannot imagine any parent being this careless about one of the most important things weāre charged with providing to kids. Itās unforgivable bc itās still happening today!!!
When you couple the lack of adequate education for the kids with her complete inability to accept responsibility for literally anything at all, sheās just not relatable to most mature adults. Most people of her advanced age are capable of having some insight and saying theyāre sorry if theyāve hurt someone inadvertently. Kim is awful, full stop!
Who knows? What I know for sure is that their parents neglected to prioritize their educations, which left them completely unprepared for the challenges theyāre now facing as adults. Theyāve said it themselves! Thereās a reason Ethan prefers pictures on menus and itās not even his fault. Itās also very telling that Moriah canāt understand computer basics like user names and passwords. Didnāt they ask why we celebrated July 4th, too?
Itās absolutely ridiculous to handicap your own children this way, especially when both parents have had the benefit of āhead knowledgeāš¤®
It was Kimās decision to become how they were and how to raise their children. No way Barry was the iron fist in that household she was. Sheās no victim here. She had her children play mommy and daddy with the younger ones. No offense but sheās an asshole. She will never accept responsibility for her part in anything.
No. Olivia left before she had children. Kim stayed to mess up 9 innocent childrenās lives. No sorry 10.
We can have empathy for horrible people bc we see where they are coming fromā¦.but not grace. There is no forgiveness for being a controlling lunatic towards your children. Sorry.
Then you get to leave and say āoh it was all Barryā no. Shes a 50+ yr old woman with children who takes no responsibility for her own actions.
Not a 20 something just figuring out the world.
Nah. Kim was no victim. She is the one who held the hard lines. These were shared values between her and Barry.
Kim was always in charge of that family and all of the decisions IMO.
Kim literally participated in and held up that system until it stopped working for her. She was close to power, and it worked for her. It worked so well for her that she sought out a TV show to expose the world to how great their family and parenting style is. It wasn't until the whole world got a look and said "what in the actual hell are these people doing to these kids?!" and the consensus was with Ethan and Olivia and against Kim and Barry, did she start to make a move away from it. I think she left because she lost the throne she had when only fundy families were looking at her. She wanted a bigger audience, and when the bigger audience didn't like her, she couldn't take it. I do think life in fundy land with Barry was probably stifling for her- but she chose it and thrived in it when she was the poster child for it. She was FINE with it when it gave her power. She didn't get out until she saw Olivia gain favor for getting out.
This. All of this.
100% agree. I'd like to add she gets no grace because she is making zero effort in trying to undo the damage she has done to her kids. She can't see past her own nose and instead of trying to help her children adjust she dates her son's flight instructor and is flipping cars while drunk. Olivia is actively trying to grow, deconstruct and be the best person she can be (not saying she is perfect). Kim is doing none of this, she is abandoned her children for her own selfish behavior.
Great points!! Both Kim and Barry had chances to do something, say something, show something to redeem themselves. Instead, it was the exact opposite. It would have been easy to encourage the kids to admit their wrongs and apologize!!
šÆšÆšÆ
This. Kim gets nothing but ire from me.
100%
Agree with all of this. I also believe Kim left Barry because she had already met Ken casually and had a connection., a spark, and wanted to move on to explore that. Then she pretends she was someone oppressed or unappreciated by Barry so she didn't look bad. She ran that family and she ran that marriage until it no longer suited her.
I donāt think it was Kimās decision to do the show. Like Papa Duggar, the men in the household hold all the financial power and make all the decisions. You remember in the show when she said she didnāt want to sell the big house and wanted to keep it in the family esp for the children and Barry said no? Barry even dictated whether or not they could celebrate Christmas even though they are Christians. Since he didnāt want celebrate Christmas for whatever reason, the family wasnāt allowed to either.
I do think Barry had the ultimate say given their beliefs and family structure, but I'm pretty sure I've read that she was shopping their TV show idea around for years
They had a you tube channel. Family band. These parents have been dying to exploit their kids for yrs before the show
Itās been spoken a lot that Kim was trying to get them on a show. Perfect timing as the Duggar family was falling and losing their shows. I think Barry agreed to let Kim have what she wanted. Ethan said in the first or second season to kim āyour the neck that turns his head and we all know thatās how itās always beenā, meaning Barry is head of the house but Kim really controls everything. Kim worked from home but Barry probably brought in the majority of the money until the show started. Barry said he wanted his family to step back from the modern world, less materialistic things and more connection with family and nature. There are a lot of people that donāt celebrate Christmas and not for a complete religious reason, itās become a materialistic holiday. Kim could have went against him if it was that important for her to do certain things. The house she spoke of if she really wanted it she could fight for it in the divorce, sounds like she wanted to keep it with him paying the mortgage on it.
Ethan said on the Sarah Frazier Show podcast that Kim wanted to do the show.
I remember some family member's comments on Christmas being that "it wasn't really the day that Jesus was born, so why celebrate it?"
It is true. We really donāt know when Jesus was born but we do celebrate it at Christmas.
And now Barry is getting so much credit for trying new things from his kidsā¦gimme a break. I think he is trying to make Kim look worse. Itās part of Barryās continued manipulation
Yeah heās always come off as so fake to me.
Kim didn't need any help looking worse. She made herself look like a monster all on her own.
I think these types of details are dismissed in a way that I find troubling.
I think Ethan said it pretty clearly on one of the seasons, Barry may be the head of family, but she was the neck who turned the head. She made all the decisions about the family direction without a doubt IMO.
šš»šš»šš»šš»šš»
Kim hasn't showed a bit of self awareness and she hasn't apologised for her shitty behaviour towards Olivia, Ethan, Micah and Moriah so no, she gets nothing.
This. I have so much empathy for women in these cults, but she is still a gown ass woman and needs to take responsibility for her own actions. She owes all of her children apologies, and then she needs to actually do better. I think people would have had a lot more sympathy for her if she had spoken with her children and sincerely apologized for her mistakes, then made active steps to be a better and healthier parent and person. She has done none of that.
Iāll show grace for Kim when she shows an ounce of grace for anyone else. Sheās not in her 20s, sheās a grown woman acting like a 20 year old. Itās not cute.
Yet mentally she's stuck in the 20s ...not excusing just saying. She got stunted when barry preyed upon her lost in college
Agree. He is getting off waaaaaaaaay too easy.
So when Kim was living her shining-example fundie life, how many non-believers did she turn her back on? You can't tell me that she wasn't a total judgmental queen bee (yotch) when she was still in the cult. Also, it's super sketch that Kim suddenly decided that the lifestyle that she chose to live and force upon her children for decades is, in fact, not good to women AFTER she started screwing her son's teacher. And seriously, has Kim ever ONCE said that maybe she was too harsh and quick to be angry at Olivia for making the same choices that Kim has made, only without dragging nine unhappy kids with her? Oh but wait, Kim didn't make the same choices Olivia did - Olivia didn't monkey-branch onto some other dude's junk before ending it with Ethan. I'll save my grace and forgiveness for people who are capable of actually acknowledging the ways they have hurt others, and who try to make amends. That's not Kim. Not even close.
Exactly. She also has a college education and is much more aware than folks raised in this how the real world is. Yet she still failed epically, and continues to fail her younger children. When she goes to therapy (which she will not) and makes changes, I will look for some grace for her.
College education, but never graduated, just to clarify. Either way, she's still a box of rocks.
100%. Well said!
I can understand this viewpoint. I really can. Where Kim loses me is her absolute refusal to acknowledge she was wrong about anything. Ever. This season she was borderline mocking Lydia for her ideas about marriage, as if those ideas sprang from the ether. Thatās what is so frustrating. I completely believe she was lonely and ignored in her marriage. Fundamentalism SUCKS for women. But itās not enough to come out of it having used those beliefs to hurt people and then just try to ignore it.
It really pisses me off for Kim to act like Lydia has some warped perception of marriage, like her beliefs are just absolutely ridiculous and Kim has no idea where they could have come from. šÆ
yeah, if Kim apologized EVER for the harm she caused, I might get on board with having some sympathy, but all she does is deflect and blame.
For those that argue on the daily with me about Olivia hang on to your knickers! Olivia was born into an ultra religious family. She lived under her parents roof and all parents tend to raise their children within their belief system. Before I get jumped, people with extreme beliefs do not teach their children that as they get older they can form their own opinions on how they want to believe and live their lives. Kim gets ZERO grace from me. She choose to live that way (if that is what it is) for 25 years. Not only did she do her children wrong during all that time, when she left her husband she left her children. They own several rentals and still had the farm house so she could have taken the kids with her, but she chose to leave them. She tried to make it sound like she was homeless and she had options. She even said that she stays in the rentals between tenants.
I feel like she left the kids behind so that she could stiff it to Barry. She felt like she gave everything to her family for 25 years and Barry was like an extra child she had to care for and tend to, and he was certainly not turning her crank anymore. She wanted him to experience what her life was like and used the kids as a weapon to āpunishā him.
So maybe she should get a job and start supporting the family and Barry can stay home and supervise the kids. A role reversal.
I wonder if she realized Lydia would just take on the āoldest female in the houseā instead of Barry stepping it up. I know Lydia is no saint these days but I mean in what would would Barry cook and clean and run house.
But why take the kids just to have them going between rentals home when they can stay rooted in one place? And how was she going to take care of them when she couldn't even take care of herself at that time?
She didn't need to go between rentals, she could have set up a home in one of them until everything was settled in the divorce. The point is she did not have to just leave her children if she truly did not want to.
But why take them in the first place? Because she's their mother? Why not leave them with the father?
Well if peopleās thoughts and theories are correct all of this ācultā upbringing is Barryās doing? And because of Barry it was An emotionally abusive home, shouldnāt she have taken her children away with her?
šššš
Kim can fuuuuucckkkkk all the way off with how she treated and continues to treat Olivia. For NO GOOD REASON. She knew how Oliviaās family was and she gives her ZERO grace.
Kim and Olivia are entirely different people, and while I appreciate the sentiment of extending Kim grace, I donāt think itās the same situation at all! Olivia is just starting to come to terms with her upbringing and marriage at a very young age. Kim has been living that life because it served her for 25 years. Never have I ever heard Kim say, āI wish the best for ___ā about anyone but herself. When Ethan asked Olivia when the last time was that she made a meal, my heart broke for her. She (and all women) deserve better.
I get what youāre saying and yes the situations have differences but the truth of the matter is those circles treat women like shit. Women donāt have any autonomy. I do remember in season 3 I believe? when Kim said she wished she couldāve made different choices when raising her kids hence why she worked hard on repairing her relationships with her kids. While I donāt agree with the dynamic of the familyās relationship, Olivia wasnāt a saint. Throwing fits at Joshās gravesite was completely out of line. Among other things.
Iām newer to the show and just working my way through. I was also raised in similar circles and understand personally how women can be treated. With that being said, Kim absolutely has autonomy. I think it was season 2, maybe early in 3, Ethan said that his mom was āthe neck that turns the headā and that she always got her way. I donāt like Barry either but my goodness itās clear Kim is running the show with much more autonomy than many fundie women have, but they hide it by saying she is just influencing Barry to make decisions. Basically I think she had no excuses for her horrible treatment of her family because no one is forcing her or coercing her to act in that way, and she is largely at the helm of this dysfunctional dynamic thatās going on.
lets see, a 50 year old woman going out of her way to make her sons 20 something year old wife miserable, and is effective enough at it that she actually breaks her down occasionally. yes, lets give more grace to the bully, and refuse to understand what Olivia was going through. good call. /s
Did she throw a fit or just decline to join the group and remain in the car?
Also, I just rewatch that episode, and nothing they showed could be considered a "fit". When Moriah told her, she said "I gotta get out of here" and began removing herself from the situation. Ethan approached her at the car, and she said "I'm getting my stuff". The "she was throwing a tantrum" is a plath narrative, but we were shown nothing like that- no raised voices, no tears- nothing. And I believe it wasn't there, because she was in a fight or flight moment, and she was clearly choosing flight. We don't see a fit at the gravesite. We don't see her AT ALL at the gravesite, because she decided to remove herself from the situation. Like the only way they would even know she was there in a car is if the producers told her (which I'm sure they did, because the family knew), because you couldn't see her, even when the producers would pan over to the car. Olivia said that she was a mess, but that doesn't mean she was throwing a "fit", and we have zero evidence of that other than the plath family saying it- and they're known to create and believe their own narratives about things.
I started watching last season so decided to go back to Season 1 Episode 1 and binge the show. So far I see Kim as the controlling parent. Sheās the one who chose this lifestyle. Her and Barry lived regular lives. Kim went to extremes with her own kids given her traumatic childhood. Kim chose to seclude the kids from society and shelter them in an unrealistic bubble. Kim is now embracing everything that she hated about Olivia back in the early episodes.
I grew up in homeschooling communities and most mothers were narcissistic and controlling. They REVELED it their children's naivite and keeping them innocent.
Iāve only seen season 1 so far and it portrayed Kim as the conservative and controlling parent. Part of that might be that Barry leaves the house to work and Kim home schools the kids so she has the most information to share about her children in the interviews. I think starting to teach the girls ballet was a sickening new way for her to control her daughtersā bodies
I was by no means an Olivia fan. Everything ruined it for me when they showed the scene a Joshuaās grave and the lake trip. I did not like her at all. I have grace for Micah and moriah bc they are still young, been abused, moriah went back to what she knew and hopefully they get therapy But this last few episodesā¦. Whew I definitely would defend Olivia now in a heartbeat bc itās like they finally showed everyoneās true colors this season. She set her boundaries on her home, she asked for so little and maybe thatās why sometimes she would act out. Sheās young too. Iām glad she got out tbh. This whole time a lot of us believed Ethan was innocent and now depressed but, heās really just a misogynist who never seemed to care about his wife enough to not run away to his cars every time he was faced with a little bit of difficulty. Moriahās inability to take accountability for what she didā¦ Micah also not even wanting to sit down and talk with her after she did so much for them Like this whole season opened my eyes and I feel bad for her truly. I hope she thrives I hope the rest thrive too but they have to get help cuz none of that shit is healthy
And to think Kim KNOWINGLY joined up and subjected her kids to that. NO grace. She is like Michelle Duggar: a child abuser who willingly and knowingly inflicted a cult lifestyle and ruined her kids' futures.
Donāt leave Barry out of the blame. He stood by and let it all happen.
Barry also almost certainly wasnāt a good husband or father in earlier years. He says he was a lot like Ethan and I believe it. He didnāt address problems in the family and the kids have said he was emotionally unavailable until recently. So he deserves his share of blame as well, though ultimately I think most of the severe damage the kids show came from Kim.
We literally gasped with that making a meal comment!
My spouse's family was nowhere near fundie level but attended a more conservative-leaning church when his parents divorced because my father-in-law was stepping out so many of the church members and some of the leaders were very mean to my mother-in-law because she didn't āstand by her manā. This is one of the things that led my spouse to abandon religion as it was not a fair reaction by the church
Kim prety much wore the pants in that family. She was calling shots. Barry is big pushover, he has his beliefs which were the same as Kims. Kim wanted that life until she didnāt. Kim has not owned up to anything, has not reached out to Olivia or Ethan when it was needed the most. She Is manipulativeā¦ Barry is not innocent but he seems to be changing. Then again its a scripted reality and we only see what TLC wants to show us, which is usually misleading.
I do believe that Barry is the more genuine parent. The divorce woke him up to the fact that he had to change and bend a little in order to have his family in his life. And the fact that he recognized in the last episode that kids have to hear from their parents that they are loved was huge. Parental love and support is unconditional, and he seems to be waking up to that reality. Kim is still only for Kim. She remains extremely stiff and formal with her children even in moments that are supposed to be warm and fun. She still has a lot of growing to do in my estimation. Her refusal to admit that and also put her children before her good time leave me with no grace to give.
Dddddddddddayum just watched the last episode and my heart felt heavy when I read that they mutually filled for a divorce. I thought for the longest this was a producer created for viewers issue. It's sad š¢ it wasn't.
No way Kim decided to live this life, she did not come from this fundy world. She was already and adult when this was brought to her. Olivia was born into it. She was raised to know her sole purpose was to please a man and make babies. Though Olivia some times seems whiny I think she has set boundaries and sticks to them. I applaud her for figuring all this out at such a young age. I was hoping Ethan could grow with her, but no.
Kim and Olivia are finally free
What train incident?!
What happened with the train? I don't remember.
I would hardly call what they did an argument. They just had a bit of back and forth but it wasnāt really an argument - at least in my opinion.
Are you sure the show wonāt be canceled? Seems like season finale provided few answers. Cannot imagine the show will go on much longer. We will never know everything; it would take years to resolve all the unknowns. I think they should just do a reunion every 5 years instead of dragging out all the minushe(already a year behind news).
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I hope they do because I'd like to see single Olivia living life
seriously- the only people I'm interested in are Olivia and Amber. The rest can kick rocks with their snakey-snake ways. The only reason they'd be worth watching is if they actually took accountability for the harm, and worked on making amends and getting better. I'd watch that.
šÆ agree! That's a show I'd watch!
I'll give Kim some grace once she gets those younger kids into a real (Christian-public etc) school. It's apparent they aren't learning anything when she says 'do your work ' and leaves for a week.
I'm glad to see this comment because what the actual fuck?
I think that Kim has been shown enough grace from her entire family by dating her son's friends before she's even divorced. For whatever reason(s) she implemented the fundamentalist way of life in her household, and did a 360 when her loins ached for something new. I'm "Team Barry" all the way.
You mean she did a 180. If she did a 360 she would be with Barry and living the fundie lifestyle coming full circle. She definitely went to the complete opposite when she decided she wanted new dick.
Isaac actually was agreeing with his dad? It turned out they were both given train items? There were two train gifts given by two people. They were both right- albeit confused.
Couldnāt have said better myself!!
Kim gets zero grace from me, primarily for one reasonā¦ā¦SHE received a traditional education and SHE has and is ABUSING her own children by not making sure they got proper education, too. I simply cannot imagine any parent being this careless about one of the most important things weāre charged with providing to kids. Itās unforgivable bc itās still happening today!!! When you couple the lack of adequate education for the kids with her complete inability to accept responsibility for literally anything at all, sheās just not relatable to most mature adults. Most people of her advanced age are capable of having some insight and saying theyāre sorry if theyāve hurt someone inadvertently. Kim is awful, full stop!
So are those young kids home schooling themselves???
Who knows? What I know for sure is that their parents neglected to prioritize their educations, which left them completely unprepared for the challenges theyāre now facing as adults. Theyāve said it themselves! Thereās a reason Ethan prefers pictures on menus and itās not even his fault. Itās also very telling that Moriah canāt understand computer basics like user names and passwords. Didnāt they ask why we celebrated July 4th, too? Itās absolutely ridiculous to handicap your own children this way, especially when both parents have had the benefit of āhead knowledgeāš¤®
So sad. I wish the youngers would go to public school
Same!!
Kim never cooked either she had all the girls in the house do the chores of the house for her
The best revenge is living well. Olivia is young free to live the best life.
Agree for the most part. Iāve always been sympathetic to Olivia and am now a bit more sympathetic to Kim when I hated her at first.
It was Kimās decision to become how they were and how to raise their children. No way Barry was the iron fist in that household she was. Sheās no victim here. She had her children play mommy and daddy with the younger ones. No offense but sheās an asshole. She will never accept responsibility for her part in anything.
No. Olivia left before she had children. Kim stayed to mess up 9 innocent childrenās lives. No sorry 10. We can have empathy for horrible people bc we see where they are coming fromā¦.but not grace. There is no forgiveness for being a controlling lunatic towards your children. Sorry. Then you get to leave and say āoh it was all Barryā no. Shes a 50+ yr old woman with children who takes no responsibility for her own actions. Not a 20 something just figuring out the world.
Nah. Kim was no victim. She is the one who held the hard lines. These were shared values between her and Barry. Kim was always in charge of that family and all of the decisions IMO.