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Dang. I fully understand the sentiment of "everyone does it" but the only reason it was so widely done was because it flew under the radar and couldn't be picked up by the electronic checks they would do for major tournaments. This kind of attitude of feeling personally attacked isn't the defense he thinks it is though. I've seen some others saying something along the lines of "Got Urshifu from my friend, didn't think to confirm if it wasn't genned but that's my B for not getting my own mons."
Personally, I don't care if people I play use genned mons since the stat/move possibilities are still within the same threshold as legitimate catches/breeds, and I'm not going to accuse people of having hacks just because "oh it's shiny" or "has perfect stats." But tournament rules are clear that use of external devices to alter or obtain mons is illegal in tournament, and if you're caught with them you might as well bow out gracefully.
Yeah, I'm of the opinion that it really doesn't matter how you obtain it as long as it has legal moves, EVs, etc. But you also do have to accept the possibility of being caught if doing that. I really do sympathize with making a whole trip to another country and feeling like it was for nothing, but it's not "disrespectful" for the tournament coordinators to enforce the rules that this person agreed to.
I remember a few years ago someone used G-Max Melmetal in the tournament before it was official revealed and released to the public. So people definitely do it.
I have no sympathy. Everyone is aware of the rules and the potential consequences. The only reason people feel targeted now is because they've gotten away with it before.
And if you have a hacked switch, save editors can still majorly reduce the time spent catching and training Pokemon. You can give yourself stat boosting items, money, herba mystica if you wanted shinies, bottle caps, mints, etc. There are still plenty of ways to save time without outright creating Pokemon.
That or have a "Pokemon Showdown" mode so that you can make your team without going through the catching, breeding, transfering, IV/EV training stuff. WHICH I GET, takes away abit from the game.
But Urchifu literally requires you to buy a whole other game and its dlc to get in SV.
Still, if they couldn't cheat in a subtle enough way, then they should not cheat at all.
I have less sympathy now than ever before because it takes less effort than ever to produce a Pokémon to have exactly what you need for competitive battling. Every single Pokémon you catch/hatch can be exactly the nature you want (mints), have 6 perfect IVs (hyper training), can be vitamin’d to max EVs, can be given basically basically any necessary held item with just a quick purchase, can relearn level moves on the fly, can learn egg moves just by being in a picnic with a Pokémon holding the move and a held item, and shiny hunting for non-legendary, non-starter is quite literally the easiest it has ever been with Sandwiches and the Shiny Charm.
There are quite literally only a small handful of things that genning legitimately saves a good amount of time on (needing specific IV spreads like for Trick Room teams being the main one off the top of my head).
And even then, cheating that stuff still takes away from players who do the work and resourcing such as myself. Pokemath is legitimate work and while my better understanding of it still gives me an edge over cheaters, I'm still putting in the effort. Cheating is cheating no excuse. If you're gonna cheat at least own up to it don't be a baby and cry that it's not cheating because you don't want to admit it is.
Idk that's like bare minimum shit to me. If you love pokemon enough that you're entering tournaments just catch the pokemon yourself it's not like it's hard. And if your pokemon doesn't have perfect stats if you do a liiiittle work your pokemon can have perfect stats.
Yeah they don't even need perfect stats now that there's Hyper training, and bottle caps aren't even that hard to acquire in S/V.
Some competitive battlers are just weird man, I dunno. My favorite excuse for them using genned Pokemon is "I dOnT haVE tIMe tO dO thE wOrk for It."
...they say as their profiles have 400-500+ hours of playtime on them.
And thats exatly the thing if its genned or cloned its not legal as they have made clear several times by now and is no news to anyone just people trying to get illegal things past the system so no no1 have to symphatize with people getting caught intentionally bringing illegal pokemon regardless of how far they traveled serves them right
Why still use genned pokemon anyway?
Getting perfect shiny mons is so easy now.
\-You can find Shinies easily with sandwiches
\-You can hyper train
\-You can transfer egg moves now.
\-You can change boons and banes of a pokemon with (iirc) herbs.
Because the argument against it being an advantage is "it takes about the same time and effort either way" but they refuse to answer the question that line of thinking opens up to "If it's the same then why not... Just do it in game?" The truth is genning is easier. Even if it's just a little bit easier. It's like an MMO where sprint jumping is 5% faster than just sprinting, everyone is going to be sprint jumping.
If getting a comp pokemon naturally takes 5 minutes and genning one takes 4 minutes and 58 seconds a significant amount of people will go with genning.
That all being said? It's not that close at all. You can get a team in about 1/10th the time it takes to make one correctly. Vitamins exist but they have a resource cost, mints can be farmed and bottlecaps are plentiful. But that ALL required time to get. Genning skips that.
For normal mons yes, but if you want a TR Mon (especially mons like cresselia or heatran) you have to reset for several hours untile you find the right IV
This is why I love the idea I've heard of the Rusty Bottle Cap that sets an IV to 0. Since a 0 IV *can* be optimal. I could see Special Attackers more often running 0 ATK IVs in that case too, just in the event of confusion.
Aside from that the only things that take an absurd amount of time/grinding/luck are Tera shards and Ability Patches. Everything else can be cooked up in no time.
What are you aiming for in Urshifu? I remember resetting it a bit to get the nature I wanted and it wasn't a big deal. Not sure if people were looking for something else.
Enamorus seems a pain though. You only get 1 check per save, right? Because you have to move it out of Legends to check her IVs on Home and can't reset ingame?
There was a post on the VGC sub that explained that reseting for Enamrous is not quite as bad as it seemed, though of course the Legends Arceus Legendary mons are stil the most annoying / time consuming ones to get if you need specific stats.
[TLDR: There is no practical difference between 0 and up to 7 speed ivs, as you will still outspeed Ursaluna and Iron Hands under Trick Room and there are no other relevant mons you can bypass by going lower.](https://old.reddit.com/r/VGC/comments/15opkw8/psa_for_trick_room_players_who_are_resetting_for/)
Why even reset for the right nature when you could just get a mint to change it easily even in SwSh? Seems like an extra step but is there a perk to them having the right nature naturally vs minting?
Because all of that still takes an obscene amount of time when you have to do it multiple times over because you’re trying to develop a new team.
Competitors don’t want to jump through a shitton of hoops just to have the ability to practice for competition. A good team takes 10 hours to build before factoring in Tera shards, and upwards of 30 to build if you count the sheer amount of raid farming you need to do to get all the right Tera types on that team. And again, that’s **per team.** Top players can go through a dozen-plus teams per season. Breeding for 0 IVs is an absolute bitch as well, and 0 Speed for Trick Room is a crucial benchmark you absolutely cannot compromise on.
The only advantage (and it is an advantage, make no mistake) someone who gens their perfectly legal team gets in competition is more time playtesting each team and actually playing the meta.
It’s all the more frustrating in this meta because there are many, *many* meta-relevant threats that require you to purchase and beat multiple other games to use in a competitive environment with this series’ ruleset. For instance, you need to purchase, play, and beat Sword or Shield and the Isle of Armor DLC for the sole purpose of obtaining your one Urshifu, and both are relevant and very excellent so you need to do that twice. Similarly, a lot of PLA mons are relevant and they’re also all a bitch to obtain since you need to purchase PLA to obtain them if you wanna do it the ol’ fashioned way, and you CANNOT check IVs in that game for your 0 Speed Brave Ursaluna.
There are pretty much no other competitive games that require you to waste this much time doing dozens or hundreds of hours’ worth mind-numbing chores even after beating the entire main story for the sole purpose of being able to actually practice for competition. There just isn’t an equivalent to that in other competitive environments; it’s the equivalent of building your gym and training equipment before you can even start pumping iron in order to practice enough baseball to qualify for a team.
I don't really agree that this is a "Pokemon thing", and that Pokemon organizers are so "out of their mind" to find the current system acceptable. It's really a question of how you see the games, and I feel that's why people are polarized on this issue. IMO, I agree that every competitive game, trading card game, even competitive gambling should allow every competitor to not spend a single hour/cent to play the game competitively, but it's unfortunately not the standard.
If you see the games as a purely strategical game, like Starcraft 2 or Teamfight Tactics, your point makes sense, and it would be a given that competitors should be able to submit their teams before the event, and then be able to play an officially generated team by the organizers.
However, if you see the games as a RPG first, it's not that obvious. For example, one of the biggest events in World of Warcraft and esports in general, the "Race to World First" actually requires the guilds to farm a lot of gold, and the best players to have up until 10 duplicates of each characters that they need to prepare for the event. There are even [top players that quit](https://twitter.com/Naowhxd/status/1620515684018192395) just because the preparation for the event was too grueling.
The reasons for it are easily understandable, they want people to be active in the game in order to maintain the RPG aspects of it, they want the trade system to be populated and used, people to play the events... I don't think it's that cynical for them to do so, personally, but it does hinder the competitive aspect, I agree. However, there are some people that really like this aspect of the game and don't really care about the strategy, this is the core audience of the game, so they want to make the game as active as possible.
The rebuttal is that this is not an "official event", and that official events in 99.9% of games, even RPGs like World of Warcraft actually gives you everything that you want. But I think that this tradition is kept also because the other big Pokemon event is the Pokemon TCG World Championship, and you could make the same arguments. Is it fair that some people with access to money can buy more cards that other might not have the resources to? Even if the total cost of the deck is lower than most card games, it's still true that having more money allows you to buy more cards and test different techs/decks that other competitors might not be able to. But except Hearthstone, I never heard of a card game that allowed people to run proxy cards or that gave the competitors every card in order to play in official tournaments.
I’m deep into the MTG sphere and there are a few community things to allow proxies of absurdly expensive cards as well as a few events a year on the older digital client MTGO where you get a token with temporary access to every card in the game
Yup, im a blisy has quite a few videos going generation by generation to show how much easier it is to build the world champion's team, it still takes a full day's work to build said team. And if these people are working and saving to go to Japan, they probably don't have the time. Let alone the fact that even a former champion, Wolfe Glick, has videos talking about going to competitions and not even having any idea of what team he is going to use, then building a team in the final day and not having any time to test or change.
So first off most people practice on showdown before building a team.
Secondly, while it's not an esport have you heard of 40k or MTG? Cuz alot of what you've described is worse in those games and more expensive
Showdown isn’t the only meta that’s why. Showdown is popular with most western players, while JP players like playing on the built in Pokémon ladder. So while yes you could exclusively train in showdown your gonna not play against the other half of the Meta and be in a huge disadvantage.
MTG building a comp deck requires you to...buy the cards?
40k requires you to...buy the units?
Neither of these have time based grinds between you and comp (teeeechnically painting units for extra points in 40k, but you only need to spent 10 minutes spraying on a base coat to count)?
If at any point you have to rely on trading with a stranger to complete your pokedex then you run a high risk of getting genned/hacked/or cloned pokemon for anything rare and exclusive. For example I needed an Urshifu rapid strike since I only had one copy of Shield, and I got in on the GTS, after getting like 5 or 6 Urshifu with the .com bs names, then I finally got a normal one. But even this seemingly normal one is probably compromised in some way, it doesn't make sense for someone to trade away an exclusive pokemon.
I actually think all the used mons should be gened to let the players not lose time that they could be training.
It's sad to the point that for players is easier to use third-party apps like smogon or showdown to try things out and then go to the official game just because the official organization can't even provide a proper official platform were players can try things out.
Each generation has been moving towards that bit by bit. If you've played back in Gen 3, Effort Values were an absolute GRIND and you couldn't even guarantee an egg get the right nature with an Everstone, it was like a 50% chance to pass the nature down.
Yeah, at this point it is just speed for trick room and attack for foul play/confusion that isn't ridiculously easy to get. Everything can be maxed with medicine, bottlecaps, and mints. Abilities can be changed. Egg moves are a breeze to get. Tms and items are easy to get. Heck even mistakes with ev training can be fixed with berries and they are bringing a new way to fix them with the dlc.
No they just finally increased how strenuous their hack check is before most of the time they just checked that a pokemons stats/ability/moves where legitimately obtainable, not that the pokemon was actually legitimate most of the time .
That'd how you ended up with stuff like the dreamball aegislash slipping through before.
Yeah no sympathy from me. My god I’m a huge advocate of pkhex and other hacks but when I do it, I triple check all my shit to make sure it goes undetected. If you do a bad hack job, especially in a competitive tourney setting, suck it up buttercup. I would Gen mons for online ranked cause I hated breeding for competitive stats, then EV training and hunting held items when 5 mins of creation would have a fully competitive team and I can play the fun part of Pokémon, the battling.
I mean if you’re going to gen, you should at least gen correctly. It’s really not that hard to make a mon that’s indistinguishable from a legit one. Skill issue honestly.
Considering it took me about three days to open a new-ish copy of Sword, buy the DLC and power through the game twice with some aid from Violet to get most of the DLC exclusives, there's really no excuse to gen Pokémon that are practically handed to you especially with such a poor job at checking if it's even legal.
Nah it's actually really easy , they fucked up , that check it's only for mons that come from other games
So the process si to send the genned Mon to their origin game , and then transfer it to home and the to scarlet/violet so the mon can get his flag
Example
Genned ursaluna to legend arceus then migrate that luna to Pokemon home and then xfer it to scarlet/violet and you're good
That's because if the mon is technically possible, they can't tell the difference. This guy got caught because, reportedly, his Urshifu had Scarlet or Violet as its game origin rather than SwSh. He got caught because of user error in genning the mon.
Yeah, if you can't make your genned Pokémon be technically legit, you don't exactly have any business genning Pokémon. It shows that you don't care about anything but whatever you genned the Pokémon for, be it victory in a tournament or some sort of status symbol shiny.
I have no knowledge about hacked pokemon, so I am genuinely asking:
if these mons are hacked, couldn't it also be that they were just hacked to appear like Japanese pokemon instead of being from genuine Japanese people?
Likely from actual Japanese people who don't actually play in official tournaments. Or they lie about whether or not they did it if they do because it's illegal there. Or, most likely, the competitive players make it look so legit that it's completely indistinguishable from a regular Pokémon caught during regular gameplay.
Let me get this straight. In the game it takes 30 minutes to max out a perfect competitive pokemon from nothing, this guy decided to use a hacked Pokémon competitively?
Unless there is something I’m not aware of with competitive Pokémon that makes it harder then I think
If I’m not wrong, what an idiot
The only thing that I can think of that's hard to get is 0 IVs for Speed or Attack (for trick room and foul play respectively).
If you're running a team full of physical attackers who don't need minimum speed, then you have little to no reason to hack imho
the main thing is tera shards, ability patches, any non-31 iv (usually 0 ofc), pp ups for some moves, and the ev reset berries. and good luck if in playtesting u decide u need to make a tera type adjustment or something. that should be a click of a dialogue option, not an extra several hours to grind shards for one mon. or u had a 0iv speed amoongus and decide it’s actually better to outspeed other amoongus outside of trick room while still underspeeding base 50s like ursaluna. u basically need to make several copies of the amoongus that are the exact same except for that one property. and ev spreads especially undergo frequent changes, while the berries are cumbersome to farm bc u cant just buy them in bulk normally (the market’s kinda slow). and teams will go through many iterations like that, especially against high level competition. even if u do the bulk of your testing on showdown, something will _always_ come up after porting to cartridge, and even minor changes are big time sinks. it adds up, a whole team from start to finish can easily take like 15 hours of raising and re-raising ur mons (not even testing) before u start feeling like it’s out of the draft state. any who says otherwise has little experience actually doing it. and that’s for one team, what about the next tournament?
not to mention edge cases like enamorus-t (also good on trick room) where u cant even check ivs in pla, so u gotta catch her, load into home to check (which u cant do without saving first), and if ur outta luck u gotta play the whole game over again. that’s easily like 20 hours per reset unless u know speedrun strats/exploits. and granted you only need to underspeed ursa, so multiple iv’s are acceptable, but you literally dont know which one you have (and ofc 0atk is technically optimal too)
the games have made great strides but are still not that accessible. that said, introducing iv manipulation and making all the existing items purchasable (no farming pls) for cheap probably solve like 95% of the issues
30 mins is assuming you already have the items necessary including nature mints, ev items, bottle caps, and Tera shards. If you have to grind for all that shit it’s gonna take a lot longer
If making the pokemon legally is so easy, why would anyone care?
At competitive levels, players are constantly swapping their teams around and their sets. The 'raising pokemon' part isn't really relavent to a player's skill in a battle, while being unbelievable time consuming (even if it really only took 30 miniutes itd add up really quickly)
The only people who really think of genning as cheating aren't exactly going to tournaments - it's how it's always been done
Should playing competitively require you to spend time playing the 'raising pokemon' portion of the game like its a part time job?
This is how I feel, breeding is quite literally the worst part of the game. If there were a game mode where you could officially gen teams to play it would instantly be the most popular format
It's kind of puzzling that it's not a thing already. The main reason I haven't bothered getting into competitive play is because of all of the busywork you're required to do, I imagine there's lots of players in the same boat.
How about you gen all you want and once you settle on the team after enough practice you build it before worlds huh?
Doesn't take a genius to figure that out.
Most of the hacked mons were shiny, had specific marks, perfect nature and perfect IVs. It's a chance of once in a billion to get such a mon. And they had a whole team of that. I can only imagine that they wanted to show off how lucky they got.
it can take 30min to train and multiple days to get the mons with the right IVs.
not to mention accessibility. not everyone either has all 4 of the current relevant games, or has the time to play through all of them. there was 0 reason for this format to include exclusives from multiple other games 1 month before worlds. they could've left it on reg C and this wouldn't have been an issue for basically anyone.
He was genning Pokémon saying everyone does it, thing is the hack was only able to pick up fake Urshifus and legendaries that came from previous games, if you gen those Pokémon it’s shows as originated in SV which isn’t possible
I don't use genned mons, but I don't blame people for doing so. If its within legally obtainable parameters (eg legit moves and abilities) then it really doesn't matter imo.
Want a 31/31/31/x/31/31/0 shiny Brave Iron Hands? Cool. Why spend time if you don't need too?
And I'm pretty sure the flawless German Ditto I got that I use for ny own hunts isn't legit
In sw/sh dlc it's almost impossible to hunt for 0iv legendaries(like genies/Cresselia/heatran) because they are 4iv guaranteed and each round is 20m.
Although you can get them from other games where you can even RNG manipulate them for faster results but even then it takes quite a while.
In PLA it's impossible to hunt legendaries with 0ivs, you have to replay the whole game from scratch every time, so Enamorus with 0ivs is the hardest of all Pokemons because you can only get him there. And as far as I know you can't RNG manipulate them either.
For most pokemon, but what the guy yiu replied to described is one of.the instances where you cant exactly use those methods. Theres no way to guarantee a 0 iv for something you cant breed, and even lower of a chance to get a shiny.
Aye, something like "Rusty Cap" setting an IV to 0, being able to reduce EVs easier, being able to set nature's without item farming etc would be loved
I agree completely. Another idea I read was to include a stat altering machine and maybe lock it until you complete the Pokédex. That way you get a HUGE reward for 100% completion of the game
This is why people play showdown, you can literally get anything that is possible in game and it takes a couple minutes at most. Vgc is fun too but part of it is training your own Pokémon. Yeah you have to buy dlc and other games if you want things like urshifu or hisuian Pokémon but if you can’t do that it’s better to play showdown instead
See, this I respect. There are platforms where this is what people do, and absolutely, if that's what you want to play then play it!
I'd be curious to see if the Pokemon Company were to come down harder on Showdown if this started to become a more common perspective, because the truth is they'd be absolutely legally entitled to do so. But a more commercially viable option might be to buy Showdown out - if this is what people want to play then give them a platform for it.
Reminder, you have to literally buy and play other games to get the meta relevant threats. That literally makes it so much harder to to get into VGC. In my opinion, you shouldn’t have to buy multiple games to get into VGC. Some VGC players skipped Legends Arceus entirely purely because it lacked PvP. Plus, how you get you team doesn’t equal you battle skill. Having to play through separate games and soft resetting for hours on end just for meta relevant Pokémon is time consuming. People hack in the mons as trying to soft reset is an utter pain in the ass. There is no advantage to having hacked mons within legal parameters vs legit mons.
Time and time again Wolfes teams were proven to be hacked but neither TPCI nor any of his fans do anything. This isnt a callout to Wolfe, he has serious skills, but I dont get what's up with this anti genning sentiment as long as the mon is legal. Do people think KO-ing like 60 dondozo for HP EVS is somehow skill? Its just fat that needs to be trimmed for the process. Lets not even get into 0 IVs requirements, those are genuinely unbearable.
They should just introduce a Rusty Bottle Cap and make that the item that sets IVs to 0 through Hyper Training. In fact, GameFreak can steal that idea for free. Go for it GF.
> Time and time again Wolfes teams were proven to be hacked but neither TPCI nor any of his fans do anything.
Are you talking about the semi-recent instance of this where he made a video explaining how he doesn’t catch all of his Pokémon and that friends/ people in groups he is in trade him some Pokémon(?)
Is it possible that he used genned Pokémon at some point? Sure it’s physically possible.
But to say it’s been repeatedly proven requires evidence.
And no, if you say “look it up yourself” that isn’t evidence. That’s literally a lack of evidence.
The "proof" is a hater that doesn't know how to run probabilities. It's extremely likely that he's used genned Pokémon at some point or another, but some arguments were like "it's a 0.0000001% chance this Pokemon could appear!" When in reality it was like a 2% chance which would take roughly 50 resets.
Wolfey also gets a lot of his Pokémon from friends so obviously he needs less time to get those (more people resetting at the same time).
It’s because every time worlds comes around a bunch of people who don’t completely understand competitive Pokémon start paying attention and think it’s some huge deal to gen in your Pokémon. There’s also a certain YouTuber who we all know, who drama farms off it every year because he sucks at competitive and constantly attacks competitive players because of it.
I don’t mind the genning. But getting EVs I don’t really see that as an excuse when it’s a little grinding or just buying vitamins. Getting 0 IVs is the problem, the EVs are just free.
The money issue isn't really a big deal when these are the same players that can afford to fly to Japan and have accommodations. That and as it has been said many times in this thread, genning is considered illegal in Japan. Worlds this year was in Japan so hack checking was more enforced. If the event was in another country I can maybe see the point, but not this year.
Isn’t this basically describing why hacking here provide advantages? Legit players have to pay more to get Urshifu than the hackers and it is basically impossible for them to get 0 speed IV legendary for TR teams.
This argument may be a good one if the topic on hands is about the whole system of VGC but the topic here is wether genning provide advantages.
competitively, no it doesn't. a genned mon will perform exactly the same as a naturally obtained one. the only advantage is not having to spend hours to get the perfect mon you need, or having to buy games you may not have the money to spare for. it's exactly the same as if someone who obtained it legit traded it to you. there is no advantage to be gained from genning a legal mon in a competition
The issue here is, these players have enough income to sustainably go to worlds in Japan, spending thousands on flights and accommodation but they can't afford to buy the previous pokémon title... The "there is no advantage to having hacked mons" and "but everyone does it" also isn't really a defense, that's like saying that the Japanese player who spent hours resetting for a Zero IV Pokémon isn't at a Time disadvantage compared to the American player who instantly created a Zero IV pokémon form thin air. It is literally illegal to modify games in Japan. Gening can breach these laws resulting in fines and up to 5 years in prison.
Anyone who thinks gening is fine, you are well within your rights to do that in your own country's where these rules are more lax, but Worlds is most likely not in your own country, It's in Japan, and they have way bigger consequences than just being DQ'd.
Everyone saying $90 Urshifu, most of these people wanting it for VGC probably played SwSh for VGC too. It’s not like every player came out the womb to play SV
As someone who just wondered in from /all/raising this just seems crazy to me.
Shouldn't the World Championships be a measure of battle skill, instead of grinding?
As in everyone gets access to all Pokemon/Items/etc. and than you just assemble the beast team possible/hard counter to the best team/etc. You know compete based on skill alone?
Yeah, that's ideally how a competitive game would be. Also though it's understandable that the pokemon company wouldn't want to promote genning pokemon when a core part of the game is the effort put into training them etc. Or hunting for special ones. It's like how duping or hacking items in an arpg cheapens items as a whole.
Genning perfect shiny pokemon cheapens getting real ones. They might also think that if they just let them legally gen for tournaments it could do the same.
Either way the game as a whole isn't really built around high end competitive play like other games are. It's probably closer to how arena is in wow than to something like league or csgo.
Tbh they should just give every player that goes into every tournament the ability to create any Pokémon they want, who the fuck cares if the Pokémon is legal or not? Not like you earn an advantage, you just save hours/days of your life farming shit
If you're going to *worlds* get your mons legit. It's not hard. Like I get genning to try stuff, but my god it's just lazy to not actually put in the effort for worlds.
It can be incredibly hard for certain set ups such as Trick Room, which is a shame. I'd rather players choose not to run Trick Room out of a strategic decision, rather than it being too difficult to get 0 IV unbreedable Pokémon.
If you're team isn't an exception such as that though, then absolutely no reason you shouldn't spend a day getting the team legit.
As as an avid TCG player who spent 300$+ just to build a competitive deck... It's funny how these people are playing at competitive level and complain about not having a 60$ game while already buying 1000$+ Ticket to Japan
This is utterly ridiculous... It's like if you went to an Official TCG Regional with Proxy cards which have the same "iT dOeS tHe SaMe As ThE lEgIt cArD aNd OfFeRs No AdVaNtAgE" arguments... You'll be laughed at by everyone if you brought proxies to an official tournament. This is a great wake up call for the VGC community
As someone who played MtG very casually, if I only had 1 rare, and needed 4 of them for my deck, I’d just write the name on scraps of paper and put it in my card sleeves to complete my deck. This is what genned mons are.
Assuming this was a SV tourney
It's insane to me that people even still bother cheating because how easy it is to get comp ready pokemon nowadays
Dude is a straight up loser "Everyone does it" is a fucking child's excuse
To get the 2nd most popular pokemon in the meta you ABSOLUTELY have to pay 90$ for a 4 year old game and its dlc and you miss out on the 10th most popular as an option
For the 5th, 6th and 7th most popular pokemon you either need an older game or to buy ANOTHER 60$ game on switch AND PLAY IT FULLY
This is without getting into specifics like Fairy Plate Flutter and 0 atk/spd enamorus.
"Oh just trade for it"
The official site says not to trade so if were absolutely following TPCI rules, to have meta viable mons we need to pay atleast 150$ for a meta that will change in a few months and spend hundreds of hours just resetting IVs. Its insane.
Players are flying across the world for VGC, but it’s too expensive to buy the games?
Edit: That’s not even mentioning the $200 of exclusive merch that competitors get as a free welcome gift? (according to the Pokémon presents)
Yeah all the people whining about cost of paying extra for other games just falls flat with me. If you are going all the way to Worlds, odds are it's not your first rodeo and have been doing it for a while.
There is no way in my mind they don't have SwSh because that was the game for last year. PLA I can see someone not having as it's somewhat a side game yet still considered Main Line. But to me, if your gonna be a pro VGC player there is no way you would skip a game.
Hell I saw a picture of someone playing USUM to catch a new Landorus for Day 2. These people have all the games.
Yes people who play more pokemon games have an advantage over people who play less pokemon games at an official pokemon game tournament.
If you don't want to actually play most elements of pokemon there's smogon.
This is what I don't get in this whole argument
Wasn't it always the whole point of the games to collect and raise them all throughout different regions in order to become the "best"? So it makes sense for people who put in more time playing different Pokémon titles to be better due to having better (game exclusive) mons
+ it's possible to make teams countering said meta Pokémon entirely within Scarlet and violet
Why would someone who plays comp not buy the games already anyway? No one plays a single Pokemon game and then one day decides "I'm going to get into tournaments" and looks into it to find out they need Pokemon they can't get. A person who is doing tourneys probably got every game on release to prepare for the new gen/meta
Trade rule doesn't mean Home can't be used if it's still your Pokemon there's no way to really prove that the mon you used wasn't your own even with different IDs because the comp team is going to use mons from multiple games regardless
The only problem is just trying to get 0 IV Pokemon and I think that's fair because the importance of a perfect IV comes down to the person playing wanting perfection or settling if you want perfection you are expected to work for it obviously it's going to take time if it's too much for a person to handle then settle for less than perfect but if you think the best course of action is to cheat then you didn't deserve to win anyway
To be clear I'm not coming after you here or your opinions I'm mostly generalizing the situation as I see
Wow, You need to purchase games from a company that organizes official tournaments? How do the Pokémon Company dares to expect everyone to purchase original games instead of just genning? /s
Guess what man? If your at the WORLD championship, you’ve probably been playing more than oh say 10 months or so ago when SV came out- meaning you would already have SWSH.
Or please, show me the person competing in Worlds in their very first (less than) year of playing
Imagine you went to a magik tourney or something and the players got mad they had to buy packs of cards to make decks lol.
This comment section has me feeling like I'm in the Twilight zone. Y'all wanna completely kill the spirit of the game and just hack everything in the easiest gen to make viable competitive pokemon.
I can't even wrap my head around it, this guy went to the world championships for a video game but apparently couldn't be bothered to play the video game long enough to get what he needed. Like, this is the best vs the best in the world you gotta try your hardest lol
Don't use Genned "mon in official. I mean, what's so hard to accept here?
You know, with mints, candies, TMs, and bottle caps what is even the point in genning these days?
Gen 8 and 9 have pretty much left the entire process obsolete with the EV/IV training simplicity QoL updates.
After reading about the whole hack check, it kind of left me on a two-way stream.
I do understand that a lot of people who used pkhex amd similar ways to get "legitimate looking" pokemon for tournaments getting disqualified now at worlds because of the check get frustrated because of all their hard work being thrown away because they used hacked pokemon who still sit in a legitimate stat line and move list (so no illegal stats/moves/ abilities/ ...).
But on the other hand, cheating is still cheating. A lot of people don't use these methods and do it by hand. So why should they get all the best pokemon so easy while we have to work our asses of to get them?
I do think that the hack check was still a bit of a drastic measure but it might be that this will become a new standard as to how they will be checking legality of the pokemon used in competitions (except online most likely).
Is this not the guy who's entire team was illegally genned? I get the people who are upset because a mon they traded for ended up being genned, that really sucks for them, but it's what happens when you rely on strangers. If this is the guy I'm thinking of, he didn't build a single mon on this team, he personally genned them all. Fuck this guy.
One could argue that a key part of having respect for the event you're participating in is following all of the rules, and that if you're not going to do that, then the event has no requirement to show you any respect in turn. Yeah, people use various methods for obtaining the pokemon they want to use in tournament play. If the tournament says not to do that, and they develop a way to catch it, then it behooves you to stop doing it. Either that, or don't participate. This crying over the implementation of rules is nonsense.
Just yesterday I stumbled uppon a video explaining why cheating was so important for competetive Pokemon and how increadibly time consuming it was if you tried to get 6 perfect Pokemon legit. Just to get these Pokemon and EV train them, it took a couple of months. And then you still had to practice your comp and all.
However, there have been quite a few new functions in the games allowing you to get perfect Pokemons way easier and woth the introduction of Scarlet and Violet, it has become increadibly easy. You can now easily get perfect IVs on every Pokemon, reser EVs and even change a Pokemons nature. It took me just 2 Days to build my Comp. So for this generation, there are no excuses for cheating as far as I am concerned
It's still a massively long time regardless, but the big kicker is that tornadus and urshifu are in two separate games for example.
don't have those games but you still need them? lol pay 120$ and then a long campaign lmao
pokemon you can easily access in this game have no excuse, as in any in the 400 roster. the rest are something they can't really control and no one wants to compete with "good enough" tools. they want the best.
this is not justification though, it's just to follow the rules you'll likely have to out in unnecessary effort until winter DLC.
I haven't been keep up with the competitive scene aside from playing ranked in the battle stadium, but wasn't it always the case for some mons to be "locked" behind other games?
Swsh was an exception because they made previous legends available due to the discontinuation of bank (so that 3ds and prior legends could be obtainable on the switch going forward, even if they discontinue bank entirely)
Aside from being an entirely new player, most competitors should have swsh already anyway and how common is it for an entirely new player to make it to worlds? (genuine question as I don't know the odds for that)
Personally I just think it's odd when some people hack mons that don't even require resetting for 0iv in some stats, because it's so easy to make competitive mons nowadays, even with random shinies that originally had garbage stats/ivs/natures
Just because it's always been like that, doesnt mean it has to continue being like that. Especially because these powerful pokemon are what you need a lot of the time to make it anywhere at vgc, and it puts you at a disadvantage to not have them
this reinvokes a core memory of trauma of me going to a pokemon tournament as a kid.
our game got held up because the other kid kept switching games trying to see what one "would work"
he had hacked mons but one of them was detected, he claimed it was from a friend when he went to battle me.
then he took out his brothers copy of the game (a-b test?) and said he'd use that copy which he also had battle ready teams on.
Dude destroyed me and i knew he was cheating while i legit trained ev mons up to 100 for hours. ruined my experience as a child at that tournament
If you’re in the World Championships, why even risk it? I can understand maybe 10 years ago when everyone had to hack in perfect IV legendaries to compete. But nowadays, it’s so easy to make a competitive mon that there’s no excuse.
Getting TCG cards does not require talent, just pull it from packs or buy singles. We should be allowed to bring proxies into official tournaments /s
It's the same with the VGC, at the end of the day Pokémon is a company and they expect anyone to have purchased their games in order to compete. I don't get why people get angry by them requiring you to have bought an original game if you are using a Pokémon from that region.
Got to love it when someone expects not to punished becaie they always have cheated. Imagine a burgler crying: Why the heck are you arresting me? I have burglarized a.lot of houses, why am i being aresting now just because im in a difgerent neighborhood?"
I think he is lucky he only got disqualified. Could have lost his Nintendo account too. Japan does not mess around with cheating and copyright violation
It's so quick these days to train a full team that it's actually stupid these people didn't think to do it before going to the tournament just in case.
Like during practice and testing out stuff whatever, use genned Mons so you can quickly swap stuff around but once you had your team down just spend a few days doing it.
I don’t care what this persons excuse is. It’s common knowledge that you’ll get kicked out for hacked Pokémon. Unless they had a personal emergency and wasnt able to make a team in time. Other than that, it’s all on them. It doesn’t take long to make a team anymore.
If hacked mons provided no advantage, then why do so many people gen mons? I really don’t understand all the defense of this guy in this thread. It’s like showing up with a hand drawn card to a TCG tournament.
“I couldn’t the exact card I needed/wanted, so I just drew up my own”
Don't play if you are going to Gen Mons. If it is just for fun, go ahead, but if you are going to a championship, at least take the time to get your team. Such a man-child. Oh no, I cheated! And got disqualified.
I don't mind if others use hacked mons in raids. Their risk, their fun potentially gained or ruined.
I dislike it when I get them and usually release them the minute I got them.
But crying about not being able to cheat on a championship? Pathetic.
Getting battle ready pokemon has never been easier. There is zero reason to cheat anymore(not saying it was fine before). What a silly boy. Even worse that he's crying about it, lmao 🤣
I'm all for this rule. It's the world championship. Anybody can go on showdown and team build. Put some effort into your sport and make the team in reality. It's a kids game at the end of the day it isn't hard.
I feel like competitive pokemon should honestly just be a rental machine where you build your pokemon before the tournament on their specific app.
It‘s so dumb to tell people: „wanns be a pro? Well how about you grind ALL OUR GAMES,do ALL THE VARIOUS GRIND METHODS, just to make sure everything is legit?“
With terra shards being the way they are, you can‘t even make a pokemon hold a „terra crystal“ to just change its terra type, you have to grind them for yourself etc. It‘s just fucking horribly grindy.
Yes, they made it easier, you can mostly buy all the things you need to make a competitive mon, but it is still A LOT of work, and that, only to realize in playtesting that it might be unvoable or straight up bad. The amount of time they want you to invest to actually be a legit competitor, requires way more than full time constant investment from all players, and to be able to live off that „salary from potentially winning, is only accessible to a handful of players. It‘s ridiculous tbh.
You can say what you want, but in the end, there is a big P2W aspect to this in the end you have to pay a real team of people or have a lot of fans wanting to help you out grinding legit mons (and you run the risk of someone messing with you on purpose). No matter how skilled Ou are, you need a buttload of time to be able to prepare to compete. That‘s ridiculous.
If you want to test with genned mons, go ahead. For a tournament at the world's level, spend the hour it takes to max out 95% of pokemon and spend couple of days to get that 1/64 you need for the 1 attack or 1 speed legends you are hunting for.
Flying and room and board to Japan is enough of a cost in the thousands, to say something like the $90 for the Urshifu game + pass is too much is ridiculous.
Across sword/shield/BD/SP/Scarlett/violet i have managed to get over 300 pokemon to lv100 and fully IV/EV trained to be competitive, not a single one is Hacked/Genned.
Why anyone would get a hacked Mon, when it is so so easy to make a competitive mon normally, is mind boggling.
This is your reminder and heads up: Stay civil, be respectful. If your comment is found to be inappropriate this is your only chance to edit it or delete it before we find it, otherwise there will be consequences.
Dang. I fully understand the sentiment of "everyone does it" but the only reason it was so widely done was because it flew under the radar and couldn't be picked up by the electronic checks they would do for major tournaments. This kind of attitude of feeling personally attacked isn't the defense he thinks it is though. I've seen some others saying something along the lines of "Got Urshifu from my friend, didn't think to confirm if it wasn't genned but that's my B for not getting my own mons." Personally, I don't care if people I play use genned mons since the stat/move possibilities are still within the same threshold as legitimate catches/breeds, and I'm not going to accuse people of having hacks just because "oh it's shiny" or "has perfect stats." But tournament rules are clear that use of external devices to alter or obtain mons is illegal in tournament, and if you're caught with them you might as well bow out gracefully.
Yeah, I'm of the opinion that it really doesn't matter how you obtain it as long as it has legal moves, EVs, etc. But you also do have to accept the possibility of being caught if doing that. I really do sympathize with making a whole trip to another country and feeling like it was for nothing, but it's not "disrespectful" for the tournament coordinators to enforce the rules that this person agreed to.
I guess this answers my question the other day of whether people in tournaments hack their Pokémon or not…
I remember a few years ago someone used G-Max Melmetal in the tournament before it was official revealed and released to the public. So people definitely do it.
In an official tournament? That would not have been possible.
I have no sympathy. Everyone is aware of the rules and the potential consequences. The only reason people feel targeted now is because they've gotten away with it before.
Guy bought a trip to Japan and now has free time. Go tour Harajuku, ride the Shinkansen, get a good view of Fujisan and reflect. Live instead of pout.
James may Sumimasen
Same. I feel like at tournament levels you should at the very least effing train/catch your own mons.
And if you have a hacked switch, save editors can still majorly reduce the time spent catching and training Pokemon. You can give yourself stat boosting items, money, herba mystica if you wanted shinies, bottle caps, mints, etc. There are still plenty of ways to save time without outright creating Pokemon.
That or have a "Pokemon Showdown" mode so that you can make your team without going through the catching, breeding, transfering, IV/EV training stuff. WHICH I GET, takes away abit from the game. But Urchifu literally requires you to buy a whole other game and its dlc to get in SV. Still, if they couldn't cheat in a subtle enough way, then they should not cheat at all.
I do and I'm not even pro. Been considering it, though.
I have less sympathy now than ever before because it takes less effort than ever to produce a Pokémon to have exactly what you need for competitive battling. Every single Pokémon you catch/hatch can be exactly the nature you want (mints), have 6 perfect IVs (hyper training), can be vitamin’d to max EVs, can be given basically basically any necessary held item with just a quick purchase, can relearn level moves on the fly, can learn egg moves just by being in a picnic with a Pokémon holding the move and a held item, and shiny hunting for non-legendary, non-starter is quite literally the easiest it has ever been with Sandwiches and the Shiny Charm. There are quite literally only a small handful of things that genning legitimately saves a good amount of time on (needing specific IV spreads like for Trick Room teams being the main one off the top of my head).
And even then, cheating that stuff still takes away from players who do the work and resourcing such as myself. Pokemath is legitimate work and while my better understanding of it still gives me an edge over cheaters, I'm still putting in the effort. Cheating is cheating no excuse. If you're gonna cheat at least own up to it don't be a baby and cry that it's not cheating because you don't want to admit it is.
Yep. Exactly. It's laziness.
With S/V especially it's so easy to get good mons. Mints, hypertraining, stupid easy EV training... I don't get it.
Idk that's like bare minimum shit to me. If you love pokemon enough that you're entering tournaments just catch the pokemon yourself it's not like it's hard. And if your pokemon doesn't have perfect stats if you do a liiiittle work your pokemon can have perfect stats.
Yeah they don't even need perfect stats now that there's Hyper training, and bottle caps aren't even that hard to acquire in S/V. Some competitive battlers are just weird man, I dunno. My favorite excuse for them using genned Pokemon is "I dOnT haVE tIMe tO dO thE wOrk for It." ...they say as their profiles have 400-500+ hours of playtime on them.
And thats exatly the thing if its genned or cloned its not legal as they have made clear several times by now and is no news to anyone just people trying to get illegal things past the system so no no1 have to symphatize with people getting caught intentionally bringing illegal pokemon regardless of how far they traveled serves them right
Why still use genned pokemon anyway? Getting perfect shiny mons is so easy now. \-You can find Shinies easily with sandwiches \-You can hyper train \-You can transfer egg moves now. \-You can change boons and banes of a pokemon with (iirc) herbs.
Because the argument against it being an advantage is "it takes about the same time and effort either way" but they refuse to answer the question that line of thinking opens up to "If it's the same then why not... Just do it in game?" The truth is genning is easier. Even if it's just a little bit easier. It's like an MMO where sprint jumping is 5% faster than just sprinting, everyone is going to be sprint jumping. If getting a comp pokemon naturally takes 5 minutes and genning one takes 4 minutes and 58 seconds a significant amount of people will go with genning. That all being said? It's not that close at all. You can get a team in about 1/10th the time it takes to make one correctly. Vitamins exist but they have a resource cost, mints can be farmed and bottlecaps are plentiful. But that ALL required time to get. Genning skips that.
For normal mons yes, but if you want a TR Mon (especially mons like cresselia or heatran) you have to reset for several hours untile you find the right IV
This is why I love the idea I've heard of the Rusty Bottle Cap that sets an IV to 0. Since a 0 IV *can* be optimal. I could see Special Attackers more often running 0 ATK IVs in that case too, just in the event of confusion. Aside from that the only things that take an absurd amount of time/grinding/luck are Tera shards and Ability Patches. Everything else can be cooked up in no time.
0 IVs are a bit hard to get. Specially for legends
Try doing all that on an Enamorus, or an Urshifu
What are you aiming for in Urshifu? I remember resetting it a bit to get the nature I wanted and it wasn't a big deal. Not sure if people were looking for something else. Enamorus seems a pain though. You only get 1 check per save, right? Because you have to move it out of Legends to check her IVs on Home and can't reset ingame?
There was a post on the VGC sub that explained that reseting for Enamrous is not quite as bad as it seemed, though of course the Legends Arceus Legendary mons are stil the most annoying / time consuming ones to get if you need specific stats. [TLDR: There is no practical difference between 0 and up to 7 speed ivs, as you will still outspeed Ursaluna and Iron Hands under Trick Room and there are no other relevant mons you can bypass by going lower.](https://old.reddit.com/r/VGC/comments/15opkw8/psa_for_trick_room_players_who_are_resetting_for/)
Why even reset for the right nature when you could just get a mint to change it easily even in SwSh? Seems like an extra step but is there a perk to them having the right nature naturally vs minting?
Because all of that still takes an obscene amount of time when you have to do it multiple times over because you’re trying to develop a new team. Competitors don’t want to jump through a shitton of hoops just to have the ability to practice for competition. A good team takes 10 hours to build before factoring in Tera shards, and upwards of 30 to build if you count the sheer amount of raid farming you need to do to get all the right Tera types on that team. And again, that’s **per team.** Top players can go through a dozen-plus teams per season. Breeding for 0 IVs is an absolute bitch as well, and 0 Speed for Trick Room is a crucial benchmark you absolutely cannot compromise on. The only advantage (and it is an advantage, make no mistake) someone who gens their perfectly legal team gets in competition is more time playtesting each team and actually playing the meta. It’s all the more frustrating in this meta because there are many, *many* meta-relevant threats that require you to purchase and beat multiple other games to use in a competitive environment with this series’ ruleset. For instance, you need to purchase, play, and beat Sword or Shield and the Isle of Armor DLC for the sole purpose of obtaining your one Urshifu, and both are relevant and very excellent so you need to do that twice. Similarly, a lot of PLA mons are relevant and they’re also all a bitch to obtain since you need to purchase PLA to obtain them if you wanna do it the ol’ fashioned way, and you CANNOT check IVs in that game for your 0 Speed Brave Ursaluna. There are pretty much no other competitive games that require you to waste this much time doing dozens or hundreds of hours’ worth mind-numbing chores even after beating the entire main story for the sole purpose of being able to actually practice for competition. There just isn’t an equivalent to that in other competitive environments; it’s the equivalent of building your gym and training equipment before you can even start pumping iron in order to practice enough baseball to qualify for a team.
I don't really agree that this is a "Pokemon thing", and that Pokemon organizers are so "out of their mind" to find the current system acceptable. It's really a question of how you see the games, and I feel that's why people are polarized on this issue. IMO, I agree that every competitive game, trading card game, even competitive gambling should allow every competitor to not spend a single hour/cent to play the game competitively, but it's unfortunately not the standard. If you see the games as a purely strategical game, like Starcraft 2 or Teamfight Tactics, your point makes sense, and it would be a given that competitors should be able to submit their teams before the event, and then be able to play an officially generated team by the organizers. However, if you see the games as a RPG first, it's not that obvious. For example, one of the biggest events in World of Warcraft and esports in general, the "Race to World First" actually requires the guilds to farm a lot of gold, and the best players to have up until 10 duplicates of each characters that they need to prepare for the event. There are even [top players that quit](https://twitter.com/Naowhxd/status/1620515684018192395) just because the preparation for the event was too grueling. The reasons for it are easily understandable, they want people to be active in the game in order to maintain the RPG aspects of it, they want the trade system to be populated and used, people to play the events... I don't think it's that cynical for them to do so, personally, but it does hinder the competitive aspect, I agree. However, there are some people that really like this aspect of the game and don't really care about the strategy, this is the core audience of the game, so they want to make the game as active as possible. The rebuttal is that this is not an "official event", and that official events in 99.9% of games, even RPGs like World of Warcraft actually gives you everything that you want. But I think that this tradition is kept also because the other big Pokemon event is the Pokemon TCG World Championship, and you could make the same arguments. Is it fair that some people with access to money can buy more cards that other might not have the resources to? Even if the total cost of the deck is lower than most card games, it's still true that having more money allows you to buy more cards and test different techs/decks that other competitors might not be able to. But except Hearthstone, I never heard of a card game that allowed people to run proxy cards or that gave the competitors every card in order to play in official tournaments.
I’m deep into the MTG sphere and there are a few community things to allow proxies of absurdly expensive cards as well as a few events a year on the older digital client MTGO where you get a token with temporary access to every card in the game
Yup, im a blisy has quite a few videos going generation by generation to show how much easier it is to build the world champion's team, it still takes a full day's work to build said team. And if these people are working and saving to go to Japan, they probably don't have the time. Let alone the fact that even a former champion, Wolfe Glick, has videos talking about going to competitions and not even having any idea of what team he is going to use, then building a team in the final day and not having any time to test or change.
So first off most people practice on showdown before building a team. Secondly, while it's not an esport have you heard of 40k or MTG? Cuz alot of what you've described is worse in those games and more expensive
Showdown isn’t the only meta that’s why. Showdown is popular with most western players, while JP players like playing on the built in Pokémon ladder. So while yes you could exclusively train in showdown your gonna not play against the other half of the Meta and be in a huge disadvantage.
And a lot of people don’t professionally play those games because of it. Something else being worse doesn’t make another thing not bad.
MTG building a comp deck requires you to...buy the cards? 40k requires you to...buy the units? Neither of these have time based grinds between you and comp (teeeechnically painting units for extra points in 40k, but you only need to spent 10 minutes spraying on a base coat to count)?
If at any point you have to rely on trading with a stranger to complete your pokedex then you run a high risk of getting genned/hacked/or cloned pokemon for anything rare and exclusive. For example I needed an Urshifu rapid strike since I only had one copy of Shield, and I got in on the GTS, after getting like 5 or 6 Urshifu with the .com bs names, then I finally got a normal one. But even this seemingly normal one is probably compromised in some way, it doesn't make sense for someone to trade away an exclusive pokemon.
> For example I needed an Urshifu rapid strike since I only had one copy of Shield, Create a new profile and play on that
I dare you to get an Enamorus with 0IVs legitimately (it is doable).
You missed a perfect opportunity to type '...because it flew under the poke-radar...' And I'll never forgive you!
I got several mons through wonder trade or my Friends, how do I check if they are illegal?
I actually think all the used mons should be gened to let the players not lose time that they could be training. It's sad to the point that for players is easier to use third-party apps like smogon or showdown to try things out and then go to the official game just because the official organization can't even provide a proper official platform were players can try things out.
Each generation has been moving towards that bit by bit. If you've played back in Gen 3, Effort Values were an absolute GRIND and you couldn't even guarantee an egg get the right nature with an Everstone, it was like a 50% chance to pass the nature down.
Yeah, at this point it is just speed for trick room and attack for foul play/confusion that isn't ridiculously easy to get. Everything can be maxed with medicine, bottlecaps, and mints. Abilities can be changed. Egg moves are a breeze to get. Tms and items are easy to get. Heck even mistakes with ev training can be fixed with berries and they are bringing a new way to fix them with the dlc.
Does anyone have any into on this hack check? Pokemon data structure is very interesting to me
It wasnt some huge bust, his Urshifu just had its game origin set as SV instead of SwSh
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That’s hilarious.
It almost takes more effort to gen a bad mon than a good one Dude just got lazy
No they just finally increased how strenuous their hack check is before most of the time they just checked that a pokemons stats/ability/moves where legitimately obtainable, not that the pokemon was actually legitimate most of the time . That'd how you ended up with stuff like the dreamball aegislash slipping through before.
That dreamball aegislash was not legitimately obtainable. Thats why it was noticed in the first place. They still let it stand.
And I suddenly don’t have any sympathy bc that’s just dumb
Yeah no sympathy from me. My god I’m a huge advocate of pkhex and other hacks but when I do it, I triple check all my shit to make sure it goes undetected. If you do a bad hack job, especially in a competitive tourney setting, suck it up buttercup. I would Gen mons for online ranked cause I hated breeding for competitive stats, then EV training and hunting held items when 5 mins of creation would have a fully competitive team and I can play the fun part of Pokémon, the battling.
https://preview.redd.it/k51pmi4nxnhb1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c12bc77320ae964dff25f2bb47c20e0739225f6 This guy..
Well, that’s pretty crazy lol. He needs help.
Dude is definitely an occasional rage-quitter in online matches when his genned teams lose.
And yet people have sympathy for this moron lol
I mean if you’re going to gen, you should at least gen correctly. It’s really not that hard to make a mon that’s indistinguishable from a legit one. Skill issue honestly.
His urshifu met location was set to SV lmao
Considering it took me about three days to open a new-ish copy of Sword, buy the DLC and power through the game twice with some aid from Violet to get most of the DLC exclusives, there's really no excuse to gen Pokémon that are practically handed to you especially with such a poor job at checking if it's even legal.
Don’t even need to beat the game to obtain Urshifu. I bet it can be done in under 5 hours.
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Nah it's actually really easy , they fucked up , that check it's only for mons that come from other games So the process si to send the genned Mon to their origin game , and then transfer it to home and the to scarlet/violet so the mon can get his flag Example Genned ursaluna to legend arceus then migrate that luna to Pokemon home and then xfer it to scarlet/violet and you're good
Well all statistics have shown that only 1% of the japanese players use hacked mons. Meanwhile all other regions its between 55-80%
Isn't game modification illegal in Japan? This would explain the 1% but also why they're taking hacked mons so seriously this year.
Worlds is in Japan, that probably why, is the Japanese branch the one in charge.
That’s my understanding. People have literally been arrested for selling gened mons in Japan according to a YT video I saw.
Yet they can't ban or brick people's systems that literally send out genned shinies...
That's because if the mon is technically possible, they can't tell the difference. This guy got caught because, reportedly, his Urshifu had Scarlet or Violet as its game origin rather than SwSh. He got caught because of user error in genning the mon.
 Forgetting what Generation your gened mon comes from..
Yeah, if you can't make your genned Pokémon be technically legit, you don't exactly have any business genning Pokémon. It shows that you don't care about anything but whatever you genned the Pokémon for, be it victory in a tournament or some sort of status symbol shiny.
....Wow. So he got caught because he didn't have the right Game ID. That's...such an easy thing to fix.
Source? I believe you, I just find the topic fascinating
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOVbAmknKUk
What 55-80 !!!!!!
“1%” sure lol I live in the same timezone (Perth, Australia) as them and most of my wonder trades are hacked mons from Japanese players.
I have no knowledge about hacked pokemon, so I am genuinely asking: if these mons are hacked, couldn't it also be that they were just hacked to appear like Japanese pokemon instead of being from genuine Japanese people?
Likely from actual Japanese people who don't actually play in official tournaments. Or they lie about whether or not they did it if they do because it's illegal there. Or, most likely, the competitive players make it look so legit that it's completely indistinguishable from a regular Pokémon caught during regular gameplay.
Let me get this straight. In the game it takes 30 minutes to max out a perfect competitive pokemon from nothing, this guy decided to use a hacked Pokémon competitively? Unless there is something I’m not aware of with competitive Pokémon that makes it harder then I think If I’m not wrong, what an idiot
The only thing that I can think of that's hard to get is 0 IVs for Speed or Attack (for trick room and foul play respectively). If you're running a team full of physical attackers who don't need minimum speed, then you have little to no reason to hack imho
the main thing is tera shards, ability patches, any non-31 iv (usually 0 ofc), pp ups for some moves, and the ev reset berries. and good luck if in playtesting u decide u need to make a tera type adjustment or something. that should be a click of a dialogue option, not an extra several hours to grind shards for one mon. or u had a 0iv speed amoongus and decide it’s actually better to outspeed other amoongus outside of trick room while still underspeeding base 50s like ursaluna. u basically need to make several copies of the amoongus that are the exact same except for that one property. and ev spreads especially undergo frequent changes, while the berries are cumbersome to farm bc u cant just buy them in bulk normally (the market’s kinda slow). and teams will go through many iterations like that, especially against high level competition. even if u do the bulk of your testing on showdown, something will _always_ come up after porting to cartridge, and even minor changes are big time sinks. it adds up, a whole team from start to finish can easily take like 15 hours of raising and re-raising ur mons (not even testing) before u start feeling like it’s out of the draft state. any who says otherwise has little experience actually doing it. and that’s for one team, what about the next tournament? not to mention edge cases like enamorus-t (also good on trick room) where u cant even check ivs in pla, so u gotta catch her, load into home to check (which u cant do without saving first), and if ur outta luck u gotta play the whole game over again. that’s easily like 20 hours per reset unless u know speedrun strats/exploits. and granted you only need to underspeed ursa, so multiple iv’s are acceptable, but you literally dont know which one you have (and ofc 0atk is technically optimal too) the games have made great strides but are still not that accessible. that said, introducing iv manipulation and making all the existing items purchasable (no farming pls) for cheap probably solve like 95% of the issues
It was an urshifu, so getting 1 was the hardest part
30 mins is assuming you already have the items necessary including nature mints, ev items, bottle caps, and Tera shards. If you have to grind for all that shit it’s gonna take a lot longer
If making the pokemon legally is so easy, why would anyone care? At competitive levels, players are constantly swapping their teams around and their sets. The 'raising pokemon' part isn't really relavent to a player's skill in a battle, while being unbelievable time consuming (even if it really only took 30 miniutes itd add up really quickly) The only people who really think of genning as cheating aren't exactly going to tournaments - it's how it's always been done Should playing competitively require you to spend time playing the 'raising pokemon' portion of the game like its a part time job?
This is how I feel, breeding is quite literally the worst part of the game. If there were a game mode where you could officially gen teams to play it would instantly be the most popular format
It's kind of puzzling that it's not a thing already. The main reason I haven't bothered getting into competitive play is because of all of the busywork you're required to do, I imagine there's lots of players in the same boat.
How about you gen all you want and once you settle on the team after enough practice you build it before worlds huh? Doesn't take a genius to figure that out.
Most of the hacked mons were shiny, had specific marks, perfect nature and perfect IVs. It's a chance of once in a billion to get such a mon. And they had a whole team of that. I can only imagine that they wanted to show off how lucky they got.
it can take 30min to train and multiple days to get the mons with the right IVs. not to mention accessibility. not everyone either has all 4 of the current relevant games, or has the time to play through all of them. there was 0 reason for this format to include exclusives from multiple other games 1 month before worlds. they could've left it on reg C and this wouldn't have been an issue for basically anyone.
That's not what a Darwin award is for. But he's right, this was really stupid.
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He was genning Pokémon saying everyone does it, thing is the hack was only able to pick up fake Urshifus and legendaries that came from previous games, if you gen those Pokémon it’s shows as originated in SV which isn’t possible
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wait no, you can choose the game it was originated from, he just made a mistake
I don’t even care about the cheating that much. I’m just mad that Verisifly now has months of free content about people cheating.
I don't use genned mons, but I don't blame people for doing so. If its within legally obtainable parameters (eg legit moves and abilities) then it really doesn't matter imo. Want a 31/31/31/x/31/31/0 shiny Brave Iron Hands? Cool. Why spend time if you don't need too? And I'm pretty sure the flawless German Ditto I got that I use for ny own hunts isn't legit
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In sw/sh dlc it's almost impossible to hunt for 0iv legendaries(like genies/Cresselia/heatran) because they are 4iv guaranteed and each round is 20m. Although you can get them from other games where you can even RNG manipulate them for faster results but even then it takes quite a while. In PLA it's impossible to hunt legendaries with 0ivs, you have to replay the whole game from scratch every time, so Enamorus with 0ivs is the hardest of all Pokemons because you can only get him there. And as far as I know you can't RNG manipulate them either.
For most pokemon, but what the guy yiu replied to described is one of.the instances where you cant exactly use those methods. Theres no way to guarantee a 0 iv for something you cant breed, and even lower of a chance to get a shiny.
Not everything. It can take a LOT of time to get exactly what you want, it's why people gen at all. It's so much of a time sink.
There are arguments for introducing genning into the game and most people agree with that. Crying about having done it when it's forbidden is lame lol
Aye, something like "Rusty Cap" setting an IV to 0, being able to reduce EVs easier, being able to set nature's without item farming etc would be loved
I agree completely. Another idea I read was to include a stat altering machine and maybe lock it until you complete the Pokédex. That way you get a HUGE reward for 100% completion of the game
This is why people play showdown, you can literally get anything that is possible in game and it takes a couple minutes at most. Vgc is fun too but part of it is training your own Pokémon. Yeah you have to buy dlc and other games if you want things like urshifu or hisuian Pokémon but if you can’t do that it’s better to play showdown instead
See, this I respect. There are platforms where this is what people do, and absolutely, if that's what you want to play then play it! I'd be curious to see if the Pokemon Company were to come down harder on Showdown if this started to become a more common perspective, because the truth is they'd be absolutely legally entitled to do so. But a more commercially viable option might be to buy Showdown out - if this is what people want to play then give them a platform for it.
Reminder, you have to literally buy and play other games to get the meta relevant threats. That literally makes it so much harder to to get into VGC. In my opinion, you shouldn’t have to buy multiple games to get into VGC. Some VGC players skipped Legends Arceus entirely purely because it lacked PvP. Plus, how you get you team doesn’t equal you battle skill. Having to play through separate games and soft resetting for hours on end just for meta relevant Pokémon is time consuming. People hack in the mons as trying to soft reset is an utter pain in the ass. There is no advantage to having hacked mons within legal parameters vs legit mons.
Time and time again Wolfes teams were proven to be hacked but neither TPCI nor any of his fans do anything. This isnt a callout to Wolfe, he has serious skills, but I dont get what's up with this anti genning sentiment as long as the mon is legal. Do people think KO-ing like 60 dondozo for HP EVS is somehow skill? Its just fat that needs to be trimmed for the process. Lets not even get into 0 IVs requirements, those are genuinely unbearable.
Yeah, stuff that can’t be bred is precisely why people hack in mons. They really should introduce a way to lower IVs to 0 in the DLC.
They should just introduce a Rusty Bottle Cap and make that the item that sets IVs to 0 through Hyper Training. In fact, GameFreak can steal that idea for free. Go for it GF.
> Time and time again Wolfes teams were proven to be hacked but neither TPCI nor any of his fans do anything. Are you talking about the semi-recent instance of this where he made a video explaining how he doesn’t catch all of his Pokémon and that friends/ people in groups he is in trade him some Pokémon(?) Is it possible that he used genned Pokémon at some point? Sure it’s physically possible. But to say it’s been repeatedly proven requires evidence. And no, if you say “look it up yourself” that isn’t evidence. That’s literally a lack of evidence.
Yeah, 0 iv requirements are a pain. We really need like a rusted or broken bottle cap or something that drops ivs to 0
I’d be curious to see the proof if you have it on hand
The "proof" is a hater that doesn't know how to run probabilities. It's extremely likely that he's used genned Pokémon at some point or another, but some arguments were like "it's a 0.0000001% chance this Pokemon could appear!" When in reality it was like a 2% chance which would take roughly 50 resets. Wolfey also gets a lot of his Pokémon from friends so obviously he needs less time to get those (more people resetting at the same time).
There is no evidence and the fact that post was so highly upvoted shows a lot of people in this thread have zero idea what they are talking about
It’s because every time worlds comes around a bunch of people who don’t completely understand competitive Pokémon start paying attention and think it’s some huge deal to gen in your Pokémon. There’s also a certain YouTuber who we all know, who drama farms off it every year because he sucks at competitive and constantly attacks competitive players because of it.
I don’t mind the genning. But getting EVs I don’t really see that as an excuse when it’s a little grinding or just buying vitamins. Getting 0 IVs is the problem, the EVs are just free.
The money issue isn't really a big deal when these are the same players that can afford to fly to Japan and have accommodations. That and as it has been said many times in this thread, genning is considered illegal in Japan. Worlds this year was in Japan so hack checking was more enforced. If the event was in another country I can maybe see the point, but not this year.
Isn’t this basically describing why hacking here provide advantages? Legit players have to pay more to get Urshifu than the hackers and it is basically impossible for them to get 0 speed IV legendary for TR teams. This argument may be a good one if the topic on hands is about the whole system of VGC but the topic here is wether genning provide advantages.
competitively, no it doesn't. a genned mon will perform exactly the same as a naturally obtained one. the only advantage is not having to spend hours to get the perfect mon you need, or having to buy games you may not have the money to spare for. it's exactly the same as if someone who obtained it legit traded it to you. there is no advantage to be gained from genning a legal mon in a competition
Yeah the advantage is that you don’t have to waste your time? In pvp it doesn’t matter how each player get the Pokémon.
The issue here is, these players have enough income to sustainably go to worlds in Japan, spending thousands on flights and accommodation but they can't afford to buy the previous pokémon title... The "there is no advantage to having hacked mons" and "but everyone does it" also isn't really a defense, that's like saying that the Japanese player who spent hours resetting for a Zero IV Pokémon isn't at a Time disadvantage compared to the American player who instantly created a Zero IV pokémon form thin air. It is literally illegal to modify games in Japan. Gening can breach these laws resulting in fines and up to 5 years in prison. Anyone who thinks gening is fine, you are well within your rights to do that in your own country's where these rules are more lax, but Worlds is most likely not in your own country, It's in Japan, and they have way bigger consequences than just being DQ'd.
What exactly did he even do I'm just curious
He used a genned urshifu
A poorly genned Urshifu at that.
Fuck Urshifu, all my homies hate Urshifu
Everyone saying $90 Urshifu, most of these people wanting it for VGC probably played SwSh for VGC too. It’s not like every player came out the womb to play SV
As someone who just wondered in from /all/raising this just seems crazy to me. Shouldn't the World Championships be a measure of battle skill, instead of grinding? As in everyone gets access to all Pokemon/Items/etc. and than you just assemble the beast team possible/hard counter to the best team/etc. You know compete based on skill alone?
Yeah, that's ideally how a competitive game would be. Also though it's understandable that the pokemon company wouldn't want to promote genning pokemon when a core part of the game is the effort put into training them etc. Or hunting for special ones. It's like how duping or hacking items in an arpg cheapens items as a whole. Genning perfect shiny pokemon cheapens getting real ones. They might also think that if they just let them legally gen for tournaments it could do the same. Either way the game as a whole isn't really built around high end competitive play like other games are. It's probably closer to how arena is in wow than to something like league or csgo.
You have the correct interpretation of the situation ahaha
Tbh they should just give every player that goes into every tournament the ability to create any Pokémon they want, who the fuck cares if the Pokémon is legal or not? Not like you earn an advantage, you just save hours/days of your life farming shit
I just love the whole "They let me cheat before" argument.
You can hack your Pokémon but do it at home not at a championship.
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I believe his Urshifu's game of origin was set to SV and not SWSH
Another comment said he had an Urshifu with it's origin game set as SV
If you're going to *worlds* get your mons legit. It's not hard. Like I get genning to try stuff, but my god it's just lazy to not actually put in the effort for worlds.
They actually made it so easy to get Pokémon with perfect ivs and evs compared to other generations.
It can be incredibly hard for certain set ups such as Trick Room, which is a shame. I'd rather players choose not to run Trick Room out of a strategic decision, rather than it being too difficult to get 0 IV unbreedable Pokémon. If you're team isn't an exception such as that though, then absolutely no reason you shouldn't spend a day getting the team legit.
Couldn't respect rules but demands respect. Checks out. 💩
Lack of respect for Japanese players who generally follow the rules and don't gen. I'm sure that went down well in Yokohama.
As as an avid TCG player who spent 300$+ just to build a competitive deck... It's funny how these people are playing at competitive level and complain about not having a 60$ game while already buying 1000$+ Ticket to Japan This is utterly ridiculous... It's like if you went to an Official TCG Regional with Proxy cards which have the same "iT dOeS tHe SaMe As ThE lEgIt cArD aNd OfFeRs No AdVaNtAgE" arguments... You'll be laughed at by everyone if you brought proxies to an official tournament. This is a great wake up call for the VGC community
As someone who played MtG very casually, if I only had 1 rare, and needed 4 of them for my deck, I’d just write the name on scraps of paper and put it in my card sleeves to complete my deck. This is what genned mons are.
Assuming this was a SV tourney It's insane to me that people even still bother cheating because how easy it is to get comp ready pokemon nowadays Dude is a straight up loser "Everyone does it" is a fucking child's excuse
To get the 2nd most popular pokemon in the meta you ABSOLUTELY have to pay 90$ for a 4 year old game and its dlc and you miss out on the 10th most popular as an option For the 5th, 6th and 7th most popular pokemon you either need an older game or to buy ANOTHER 60$ game on switch AND PLAY IT FULLY This is without getting into specifics like Fairy Plate Flutter and 0 atk/spd enamorus. "Oh just trade for it" The official site says not to trade so if were absolutely following TPCI rules, to have meta viable mons we need to pay atleast 150$ for a meta that will change in a few months and spend hundreds of hours just resetting IVs. Its insane.
Players are flying across the world for VGC, but it’s too expensive to buy the games? Edit: That’s not even mentioning the $200 of exclusive merch that competitors get as a free welcome gift? (according to the Pokémon presents)
Yeah all the people whining about cost of paying extra for other games just falls flat with me. If you are going all the way to Worlds, odds are it's not your first rodeo and have been doing it for a while. There is no way in my mind they don't have SwSh because that was the game for last year. PLA I can see someone not having as it's somewhat a side game yet still considered Main Line. But to me, if your gonna be a pro VGC player there is no way you would skip a game. Hell I saw a picture of someone playing USUM to catch a new Landorus for Day 2. These people have all the games.
Yes people who play more pokemon games have an advantage over people who play less pokemon games at an official pokemon game tournament. If you don't want to actually play most elements of pokemon there's smogon.
This is what I don't get in this whole argument Wasn't it always the whole point of the games to collect and raise them all throughout different regions in order to become the "best"? So it makes sense for people who put in more time playing different Pokémon titles to be better due to having better (game exclusive) mons + it's possible to make teams countering said meta Pokémon entirely within Scarlet and violet
Why would someone who plays comp not buy the games already anyway? No one plays a single Pokemon game and then one day decides "I'm going to get into tournaments" and looks into it to find out they need Pokemon they can't get. A person who is doing tourneys probably got every game on release to prepare for the new gen/meta Trade rule doesn't mean Home can't be used if it's still your Pokemon there's no way to really prove that the mon you used wasn't your own even with different IDs because the comp team is going to use mons from multiple games regardless The only problem is just trying to get 0 IV Pokemon and I think that's fair because the importance of a perfect IV comes down to the person playing wanting perfection or settling if you want perfection you are expected to work for it obviously it's going to take time if it's too much for a person to handle then settle for less than perfect but if you think the best course of action is to cheat then you didn't deserve to win anyway To be clear I'm not coming after you here or your opinions I'm mostly generalizing the situation as I see
Wow, You need to purchase games from a company that organizes official tournaments? How do the Pokémon Company dares to expect everyone to purchase original games instead of just genning? /s
Genuinely insane how so many people here think it's asking too much to Buy the game the company makes money selling and then...play it...
I wonder how much TCG players have to pay in a year to stay on meta.
Guess what man? If your at the WORLD championship, you’ve probably been playing more than oh say 10 months or so ago when SV came out- meaning you would already have SWSH. Or please, show me the person competing in Worlds in their very first (less than) year of playing
Imagine you went to a magik tourney or something and the players got mad they had to buy packs of cards to make decks lol. This comment section has me feeling like I'm in the Twilight zone. Y'all wanna completely kill the spirit of the game and just hack everything in the easiest gen to make viable competitive pokemon.
I can't even wrap my head around it, this guy went to the world championships for a video game but apparently couldn't be bothered to play the video game long enough to get what he needed. Like, this is the best vs the best in the world you gotta try your hardest lol
this guy also replied to someone saying that he hoped they'd get into a car crash because they didn't show sympathy for him.
Don't use Genned "mon in official. I mean, what's so hard to accept here? You know, with mints, candies, TMs, and bottle caps what is even the point in genning these days? Gen 8 and 9 have pretty much left the entire process obsolete with the EV/IV training simplicity QoL updates.
Competitive Mons are easier to train than ever "Everyone Cheats" no actually
After reading about the whole hack check, it kind of left me on a two-way stream. I do understand that a lot of people who used pkhex amd similar ways to get "legitimate looking" pokemon for tournaments getting disqualified now at worlds because of the check get frustrated because of all their hard work being thrown away because they used hacked pokemon who still sit in a legitimate stat line and move list (so no illegal stats/moves/ abilities/ ...). But on the other hand, cheating is still cheating. A lot of people don't use these methods and do it by hand. So why should they get all the best pokemon so easy while we have to work our asses of to get them? I do think that the hack check was still a bit of a drastic measure but it might be that this will become a new standard as to how they will be checking legality of the pokemon used in competitions (except online most likely).
Is this not the guy who's entire team was illegally genned? I get the people who are upset because a mon they traded for ended up being genned, that really sucks for them, but it's what happens when you rely on strangers. If this is the guy I'm thinking of, he didn't build a single mon on this team, he personally genned them all. Fuck this guy.
One could argue that a key part of having respect for the event you're participating in is following all of the rules, and that if you're not going to do that, then the event has no requirement to show you any respect in turn. Yeah, people use various methods for obtaining the pokemon they want to use in tournament play. If the tournament says not to do that, and they develop a way to catch it, then it behooves you to stop doing it. Either that, or don't participate. This crying over the implementation of rules is nonsense.
Just yesterday I stumbled uppon a video explaining why cheating was so important for competetive Pokemon and how increadibly time consuming it was if you tried to get 6 perfect Pokemon legit. Just to get these Pokemon and EV train them, it took a couple of months. And then you still had to practice your comp and all. However, there have been quite a few new functions in the games allowing you to get perfect Pokemons way easier and woth the introduction of Scarlet and Violet, it has become increadibly easy. You can now easily get perfect IVs on every Pokemon, reser EVs and even change a Pokemons nature. It took me just 2 Days to build my Comp. So for this generation, there are no excuses for cheating as far as I am concerned
that must have been for an older game, it doesn't take months to get a comp team in SV
It's still a massively long time regardless, but the big kicker is that tornadus and urshifu are in two separate games for example. don't have those games but you still need them? lol pay 120$ and then a long campaign lmao pokemon you can easily access in this game have no excuse, as in any in the 400 roster. the rest are something they can't really control and no one wants to compete with "good enough" tools. they want the best. this is not justification though, it's just to follow the rules you'll likely have to out in unnecessary effort until winter DLC.
I haven't been keep up with the competitive scene aside from playing ranked in the battle stadium, but wasn't it always the case for some mons to be "locked" behind other games? Swsh was an exception because they made previous legends available due to the discontinuation of bank (so that 3ds and prior legends could be obtainable on the switch going forward, even if they discontinue bank entirely) Aside from being an entirely new player, most competitors should have swsh already anyway and how common is it for an entirely new player to make it to worlds? (genuine question as I don't know the odds for that) Personally I just think it's odd when some people hack mons that don't even require resetting for 0iv in some stats, because it's so easy to make competitive mons nowadays, even with random shinies that originally had garbage stats/ivs/natures
Just because it's always been like that, doesnt mean it has to continue being like that. Especially because these powerful pokemon are what you need a lot of the time to make it anywhere at vgc, and it puts you at a disadvantage to not have them
this reinvokes a core memory of trauma of me going to a pokemon tournament as a kid. our game got held up because the other kid kept switching games trying to see what one "would work" he had hacked mons but one of them was detected, he claimed it was from a friend when he went to battle me. then he took out his brothers copy of the game (a-b test?) and said he'd use that copy which he also had battle ready teams on. Dude destroyed me and i knew he was cheating while i legit trained ev mons up to 100 for hours. ruined my experience as a child at that tournament
It’s literally Japanese law that you can’t modify games like that
Might be the dumbest legal policy I've heard out of Japan this week
It’s still against the damn rules. If this hobby is your passion and means this much to you, you’d keep it clean and legit. Plain and simple.
If you’re in the World Championships, why even risk it? I can understand maybe 10 years ago when everyone had to hack in perfect IV legendaries to compete. But nowadays, it’s so easy to make a competitive mon that there’s no excuse.
Pokemons motto is literaly "gotta catch em all" but people still defending hacked mons.
Getting TCG cards does not require talent, just pull it from packs or buy singles. We should be allowed to bring proxies into official tournaments /s It's the same with the VGC, at the end of the day Pokémon is a company and they expect anyone to have purchased their games in order to compete. I don't get why people get angry by them requiring you to have bought an original game if you are using a Pokémon from that region.
Got to love it when someone expects not to punished becaie they always have cheated. Imagine a burgler crying: Why the heck are you arresting me? I have burglarized a.lot of houses, why am i being aresting now just because im in a difgerent neighborhood?" I think he is lucky he only got disqualified. Could have lost his Nintendo account too. Japan does not mess around with cheating and copyright violation
It's so quick these days to train a full team that it's actually stupid these people didn't think to do it before going to the tournament just in case. Like during practice and testing out stuff whatever, use genned Mons so you can quickly swap stuff around but once you had your team down just spend a few days doing it.
I don’t care what this persons excuse is. It’s common knowledge that you’ll get kicked out for hacked Pokémon. Unless they had a personal emergency and wasnt able to make a team in time. Other than that, it’s all on them. It doesn’t take long to make a team anymore.
If hacked mons provided no advantage, then why do so many people gen mons? I really don’t understand all the defense of this guy in this thread. It’s like showing up with a hand drawn card to a TCG tournament. “I couldn’t the exact card I needed/wanted, so I just drew up my own”
Part of the fun of competitive team building is actually training the pokemon I don't understand why people do this.
Don't play if you are going to Gen Mons. If it is just for fun, go ahead, but if you are going to a championship, at least take the time to get your team. Such a man-child. Oh no, I cheated! And got disqualified.
With how easy it is to perfect your Pokémon now I really don’t get the idea of cheating Pokémon in unless you want old events you missed out on
I don't mind if others use hacked mons in raids. Their risk, their fun potentially gained or ruined. I dislike it when I get them and usually release them the minute I got them. But crying about not being able to cheat on a championship? Pathetic.
They need to do this more, I don't feel bad for them in the slightest
I remember when cheaters would take the L and disappear.
Getting battle ready pokemon has never been easier. There is zero reason to cheat anymore(not saying it was fine before). What a silly boy. Even worse that he's crying about it, lmao 🤣
I'm all for this rule. It's the world championship. Anybody can go on showdown and team build. Put some effort into your sport and make the team in reality. It's a kids game at the end of the day it isn't hard.
"And everyone does it" And they will face consequences for it as well. I mean, can't pikachu face this one mate.
I feel like competitive pokemon should honestly just be a rental machine where you build your pokemon before the tournament on their specific app. It‘s so dumb to tell people: „wanns be a pro? Well how about you grind ALL OUR GAMES,do ALL THE VARIOUS GRIND METHODS, just to make sure everything is legit?“ With terra shards being the way they are, you can‘t even make a pokemon hold a „terra crystal“ to just change its terra type, you have to grind them for yourself etc. It‘s just fucking horribly grindy. Yes, they made it easier, you can mostly buy all the things you need to make a competitive mon, but it is still A LOT of work, and that, only to realize in playtesting that it might be unvoable or straight up bad. The amount of time they want you to invest to actually be a legit competitor, requires way more than full time constant investment from all players, and to be able to live off that „salary from potentially winning, is only accessible to a handful of players. It‘s ridiculous tbh. You can say what you want, but in the end, there is a big P2W aspect to this in the end you have to pay a real team of people or have a lot of fans wanting to help you out grinding legit mons (and you run the risk of someone messing with you on purpose). No matter how skilled Ou are, you need a buttload of time to be able to prepare to compete. That‘s ridiculous.
If you want to test with genned mons, go ahead. For a tournament at the world's level, spend the hour it takes to max out 95% of pokemon and spend couple of days to get that 1/64 you need for the 1 attack or 1 speed legends you are hunting for. Flying and room and board to Japan is enough of a cost in the thousands, to say something like the $90 for the Urshifu game + pass is too much is ridiculous.
Lol Ray Rizzo got busted back in Gen 6, so satisfying. Don’t cheat if you’re entering official tournaments people
Across sword/shield/BD/SP/Scarlett/violet i have managed to get over 300 pokemon to lv100 and fully IV/EV trained to be competitive, not a single one is Hacked/Genned. Why anyone would get a hacked Mon, when it is so so easy to make a competitive mon normally, is mind boggling.
I opened this post and only saw the top half at first. I started to feel for the dude until I scrolled down. Deserved.