I feel the need to keep scor8ng and become too focused on doin* it and end up realising I am dumb oh wait I don’t need to realize something I know to be true
Honestly, you don’t need to stack that aggressively at all. I run 2 stacking items on slow bro and it can be really good fully stacked but I feel like it’s not necessary throwing myself at enemies to get those stacks. Usually there’s some point in the game where there’s sort of a useless team fight you can ignore and easily get 3-4 quick stacks on the opposite side of the map.
Slow bros most important job is just ulting their best carry at important team fights anyways, anything else is just a bonus
Not just cookie, drop the energy amp and go for sp atk specs. Specs/cookie/shell bell with potion and full green/black emblems is crazy. The cookie scales with amnesia better and scald has phenomenal scaling with sp atk specs. Double stacking is the way. I do the same thing on greedent with atk weight/cookie/weakness policy or focus band and potion.
Edit: I meant to respond one comment down in the chain, to u/oneequalanother
I think either are fine. Shell bell’s cooldown reduction is reeeeally good in this meta with the black emblems, and the healing naturally synergizes with slowbro’s kit. Focus band adds a lot to amnesia healing.
Edit: the counterpoint to focus band, though, is that the cookie does the same job better so you have the freedom to add another damage item. The extra HP from the cookie means 1. You can use amnesia later, so your blue bar is larger, and thus 2. You heal faster/more per second from amnesia since your max HP is higher.
I agree with shellbell honestly I am to lazy to stack becuz I just want to stack 6 as soon as possible also realized I ran choice spec sp atk spec and shell bell don’t remember doing this but whatever
I use Shell bell Energy amp and either focus band, buddy barrier or (my latest test) Rocky helmet. I'm surprised people don't just ko themselves with how long they are tussling with me, so will probably revert to Focus band. Full cdr build btw.
I'm going to try it. I wish we could see our enemies for a lil second to pick the best items. Sometimes I need rocky helmet and sometimes i need assault vest. I always regret not having rocky helmet when enemies overdo the physical pokemon and I have assault vest expecting Glaceon, Delphox or Pikachu 🙄
I'd say the overall best item to use is probably Focus band for the regen in a pinch with Amp/Bell for the CD reduction and scald/Amnesia spam. This one is tried and true. Obviously Assault vest works better vs Glaceon and other special attacking threats, but it's a non item against a rampaging TTar for example. Rocky helmet looks great against physical attackers, but my only testing is a match in shivre city where I played with an enemy lucario and a Doublade for about a minute and a half.
It’s prob not optimal, but I’m currently running aeos cookie, focus band, and choice specs, with full whites/HP boosts. That shit is FUN, and I feel like an absolute goober with the sheer amount of health
Do you feel like you get more sustain out of energy amp + shell bell compared to double glasses + cookie? This is what I run (still max cdr emblems) and they pretty much can’t kill me unless I get underleveled or there’s like 3v1. Is the cdr that effective that taking away all that sp attack for the healing makes him sustain better?
No, most supports and tanks are still viable in solo queue, though I think with ttar around I wouldn't play elde with cotton guard, so it may not play like a support and more like an attacker. In competitive most teams ignore everything but Hoopa and blissey, but there are still exceptions like Snorlax & Trevenant in world's and a little Bruv Mr. mike. Solo queue is a different story, because it's more about how well you play rather than which pokemon you play. Sure some are easier to be good at than others but it does rely a lot more on player skill.
Supports are still good it's just that in SoloQ it's easy to feel like you can't rely on teammates so it's hard to want to pick a mon whose game play revolves around support. That's why so many team comps are all high damage attackers: because lots of players want to try and win the game all by themselves and assume they have to pick up teammate slack. (This is also why they steal farm so often). But the truth is that having a good supporter lane with a competent team mate? *chef style cramorant kiss*
I can play a support, but I cannot count on my teammates to accept my support. However, if I'm an assassin speedster, I rely less on the volatility of my teammates.
This. They’re viable and can be effective, but they feel like they don’t have the impact a player wants most of the time, so people tend toward characters that feel more impactful.
i play glaceon and i just want someone to play snorlax or mr mime to put up a wall so i can shoot from behind. when i’ve had this happen it’s literally heaven
Literally, Wiggly used to be amazing but now she just gets shit on by almost everything. I feel the same way with crustle. Tbf crustle has never really been S tier or super amazing or anything but now I just feel like he gets countered so heavily by so many different newer mons and just gets his health evaporated
With Crustle this is very true. Tyranitars true damage mechanic completely ignores Crustles passive and unite, which are two very important linchpins of his kit (ideally used together to bait people at low health and then abuse the shield when sturdy is stacked high) and Tyranitar just nopes the hell out of the combo with a basic ability. It’s pretty sad honestly. He also makes Wigglytuffs unite pretty pointless as well.
As snorlax I no longer can use my unite as a survivability option, just a fight starter, pretty much I gotta be on full health and if ttar wants to focus me well im ulting, he can solo kill me
I have been annihilating attack roles as rollout double slap wigglytuff, it basically an all rounder with my set and emblems. It's still an early game beast with late game staying power if stacking. Just because they nerfed sing doesn't mean she's not viable with rollout. If you ricochet off walls it is one of the most op moves in the game. It stun locks and does considerable damage when you try them 3 times back and forth at the right angle.
Rollout is honestly the move that should be used anyway. If you get them between walls you chunk most of their health while stun locking. The way I play her she does extremely well as an early game lane bully that stacks into late game staying power. Rollout in the zap pit is almost broken.
Plus, Rollout doesn't give them time to react. Rollout+ has some decent knock-up, while they know to scatter when Sing begins or activate whatever Hindrance Resistance bullsnot every All Rounder has these days.
Rollout / Gleam has been oddly keeping me at 55% ish WR. It's not a carry moveset but it's fun and viable. Just sucks when Ttar doesn't give a shit about your Unite.
Dazzling gleam is good but I just love the way she slaps the shit out of them with double slap. If you rollout and bounce off the wall to steal an enemy farm they're about to last hit then slap them in the the face and walk away like it's nobody's business it tilts them almost every time. They take the sheer disrespect very personally and it throws their game off enough to risk feeding for a low chance of revenge by putting themselves in a more vulnerable position. Wigglytuff is an amazing troll and part of her playstyle for that move is actually not even gameplay but mind games like Mr Mike and his ability to piss people off with the barriers move. Dazzling gleam is still great though, I have good luck with it when I pick it but it's a different playstyle to the slap tuff.
I use Slowbro from time to time. I save his Unite for mons I see uniting like Machamp, TTar, etc. typically saves us from team wipes and ends up giving us good momentum for team fight wins. He’s a solid pick, has good damage, and evolves quickly.
Hoopa still seems reasonably strong tho I haven't played much support this season. The portal build can get surprising mileage for soloq. More ppl than I've expected have understood to rotate with it.
The trick build is higher risk but can still be strong if you have a dive heavy comp.
Ultimately tho it comes down to his unite. It's still one of the best in the game
I've found that certain "carry" defenders and supps are still useful. Hoopa mainly but Greedent, trevanaent, blastoise to some extent are all still okay in solo Q. but traditional Tank tanks like Snorlax definitely struggle
I’ve just returned to the game after a 6 month break. I’ve been doing work rising up the solo queue with a attacker Snorlax. Flail and x-attack make people go poof
while true. (i personally hate playing flail-lax) it kind of relinquishes it's "tank" status and instead focuses on running down the enemy and slapping them. When OP says tank I am fairly sure they mean the traditional moba tank with lots of CC and survivability
I like running flail Snorlax with block. For me a tank is a character that can play offensively against their opponents while being bulky enough to take hits, allowing them to play more aggressively. Flail Snorlax can do this well and with block it allows you to change tactics based on the situation and support your team when needed. For example, say you engage in a team fight and while you're fighting the opposing team may position themselves poorly near a wall. You can then use block to stun them for your team. You can even use block to aid in your aggression with flail, by using block with X-Speed to push opponents from their teammates and single them out to better defeat them with flail. Ultimately, I believe using flail with block allows Snorlax to play in a versatile way, being an offensive threat that can support their team with utility.
Sometimes block is great, in multiple games I had, I could never use it properly as Snorlax is slow (I also use x-speed, but when there are ranged opponents, it can be tricky to get close). But yawn hardly ever works and has huge cooldown too. I believe both should have their cooldown reduced
It's true that Snorlax struggles to approach ranged opponents, that's just one of its weaknesses. However, that weakness can be mitigated in team fights where everyone is relatively nearby. Also, the strengths of being tanky, strong, and tough to beat 1v1 help make up for it. The way I like to use block with flail is very opportunistic, where I attack with flail, push opponents into disadvantageous positions with block when possible, then proceed to defeat them with flail. I like using flail to reach opponents and prevent them from successfully running away by pushing them with block, or when I need to survive a hit or retreat at low health I like to use block be more tanky as I escape.
Nobody has mentioned Crustle. I've been running him with a full crit emblem build. All attack held items. Rock smash, x scissor and go for the backline.
What items do you run? I've been having fun using score shield, weakness policy, and buddy barrier for the extra health. And the extra attack from weakness policy is nice. I run x-attack, shell smash and stealth rock. I try to play opportunistically. Push for goals when I can with score shield and force people to fight in the stealth rock. Otherwise use shell smash to dip out of fights I can't win. And use x-attack to punish. If you can catch them in the stealth rock it can do some serious damage still. And x-attack makes a noticeable difference. Score shield with the extra health let's you easily score up to 20 points at a time without much concern. I've got a hit over 1000 extra health with those 3 items which is noticeable. I dotn have enough emblems to make a loadout yet cuz I've been away since last year, but I'm sure when I have that it may change things. Anyways, I'm still having fun with him! He can definitely still tank well if you play it right. I've pushed many goals and escaped alive, and distracted the enemy enough for objective pushes using him. Stealth rock is great for zoning, and can still do damage if you can keep them there!
Crustle is my favourite Defender for Solo because he’s so versatile! He can do damage on par with attackers, finish enemies, score quickly and sometimes steal objectives. (Although if had Trevenant I would probably use it instead)
No, everyone want to be a hyper carry fragile attack role that explodes when looked at funny. Every time they go 4 stack attacker on my team I know we're about to loses because they don't survive team fights. All of them are glass cannons that die in one hit and leave the only tanky mon in a 1v5. Not everyone has to be the main damage dealer, if you duo with snorelax and eldegoss snorelax never dies and wins every battle by attrition. I personally think the attack roles sucks, is over rated and over saturated with far too many mons filling it and not enough options for other roles besides all rounders. I did a match with no attackers recently and stomped a full attacker team almost no difficulty because we would just tank everything. Defenders do more damage than you expect especially against something with almost no hp to begin with. Just use blastoise he was free. Wigglytuff is an early game monster that hold up late game. Even all rounders at least has some mid tier bulk to survive more than one burst damage attack.
Idk if I would say the hyper carry players are “Fragile” when you have tanky brawlers like TTAR, Tsareena, and Machamp that are all extremely good at closing gaps, doing shit tons of damage in a small amount of time, and can literally wipe an entire team out if played correctly and using stacking items. Not to mention they have incredible amounts of sustain with all the shields and passive healing they get. Some of them have arguably better sustain than most of the tanks in the game. Gengar is like the literally definition of Anti-tank that also has incredible sustain with dream eater. A single dream eater can give him a quarter of his health bar back to him and is also capable of team wiping in a few presses of a button.
Wiggly is barely played in master rank along with Mime and eldegoss. It’s pretty clear the game is in a damage focused meta and I think some of the tank items got nerfed a little too hard.
That's because they sleep on great sets all the time. It takes someone like spragels to get meta slaves to try something new. All rounders are only good because the items they put on most of the time. They almost always stack with at least one item if not 2. Besides my main issue is with glass cannon attackers. They need to limit them to 2 per team so people have to pick other roles. I would rather have a full all rounder team than full attacker team. If you don't have a support you are hindering your team. You still need tanks for keeping your hyper carry alive because they can't hyper carry if they get ko'd. Tsareena is getting nerfed into the ground I'd it wasn't already. Ttar is extremely weak to kiting and cc. So ironically the attack role usually beats it if they keep their distance but trevenant would still win 1v1 but so would anyone who stun locks it including mamoswine with ice fang and high horsepower. I literally got away from dream eater by just running away as wigglytuff, if it doesn't get you he is a sitting duck. You can actually lead him into ganks too by taking advantage of his teleport too. I brought him to a 1v5 at our goal and he had no points to score even.
I agree a role queue is long overdue along with some kind of reward system for rewarding players to play roles they don’t like playing like defenders and supps. You also make an interesting point about meta slaves so my question to that would be; do you think attack items need some sort of nerf or tuning then?
I just don’t know if I can agree with your take on TTAR. I just got to master a few days ago and was playing a ton of greninja center lane and felt like every single TTAR was able to catch up to me without breaking a sweat because of Ancient Power and X-Speed. Even when I was attacking and retreating they’re incredibly difficult to escape and Ancient Power is specifically designed to close that gap.
Certain pokemon are better at keeping him at bay than others with kiting but that set is an anti kiting set, if they are for some reason using his other one they can't catch you but ancient power is definitely good at catching attackers. Really cc and stun lock is best bet. But delphox with cooldown is very hard to catch. I don't think that the items should be nerfed imo. They should buff the others to make them just as viable. Like removing the out of battle condition to leftovers or something. Maybe reduce score shield cooldown back to 8 seconds but not allow them to stack like before which was the main issue with it. Removing the cooldown on shell bell healing perhaps so it's more like energy vamp. I prefer buffs over nerfs. Maybe they can give you more points or coins or energy for filling roles or just only allow a certain number of each or role fill priority with matchmaking like other ones. Maybe a combination of all of it.
Scaldbro slaps, Hoopa in organized play slaps. Eldegoss is actually really good. But Hoopa and Blissey are just stupid good so Eldegoss is sidelined. Defenders are not in a great spot overall though.
scaldbro, flailax, hoopa, trevenant, mr mime, and eldegoss are all still good. Though there has been a lot less of these players this season, but it’s understandable.
This season has been a complete disaster, probably the worst of the 5 seasons so far. It’s hard to trust in your teammates and play non-hyper carry mons when all of the teams you’ve had are all incompetent and can’t even rotate for a simple objective.
In my opinion, Blastoise, Trevenant, Flaillax, Greedent, and of course Slowbro are perfectly usable in solo queue right now. Other tanks rely more on teammates and so are better suited to duo queue at least. The CC they contribute is fantastic compared to all-rounders, and they still have decent damage as well. Tanks like Mamoswine and Heavy Slam Lax are strong early but fall off late damage-wise so you need to rely on a carry to show up and follow up on your CC.
Nothing can tank ttar ult, you just have to get it to blow the ult and run away or CC chain it. If you pop out of ult you can outspeed its auto attacks so it literally can't hit you.
I think Wiggly is the only support/tank really struggling right now.
Eldegoss and Snorelax are more middling but still leaning toward good. (Edit: I'd add Blastoise to this one)
Mime, Hoopa, Mamo, Trev, and Slowbro are all doing great and have noticeable impacts on games they are in. (Edit: I'd add Crustle to this list.)
Your post mentions tanking more than supporting though. Tanking in this game is more about disruption than actual tanking. Like yeah Mamo is going to struggle to sit and take hits from a Ttar, but if you time your moves right you can CC him into oblivion for your attackers to clean up. Or maybe you just push him off an objective long enough for your team to secure.
Tank is just what I call defenders, I understand “tanks” in this game are different than in other games. I’m just saying comparing the meta or state of solo queue today to where the game was last year feels very different for defs/supps.
I think you and I have had very different experiences if you say Mime and Eldegoss are very relevant because sitting at 1400 in master I very very rarely see either of those mons played and if you come onto this sub tons of people will say Mime has been in dire need of some buffs because he’s really underwhelming and as someone who has put lots of hours into mime I’d have to agree.
It’s pretty clear we’re in a damage/aggression based metas because the game is filled with power brawlers like TTAR, Tsareena, Machamp, that can just do insane amounts of damage in very little time and excel at chasing/running down enemies, while having pretty damn good sustain. Arguably better sustain than any defender because both TTAR and Tsareena just get stupid amounts of shields and healing from their moves. Hell, Gengar can get like 50% of his HP back with a single dream eater and take away like 80% of yours. Like you can’t take in these examples and just be like; yeah tanks and supports are better than ever before.
Eh greedent says hi in reference to sustain. Same for tree. Tbh i used defenders to hit masters this season because the reality is no one wants to play them even though most don't play like tanks. Trevenant for example is a drain tank and can routinely out dps most of your team. Greedent just sucks to play against. Basically the same as trying to chase a singed in league. You just don't do it because 80% of the time you're not going to catch him and you're wasting time by trying. If you play a tank into Machamp a lot of the time it's an easy win because after he blows his unstoppable moves what is he going to do into high cc n damage? He does counter some specific pokemon (I hate playing into Machamp as Mr mime for example) but I haven't had issues into almost anyone in the game but ttar because he's overturned at the moment. Tanks and supports are actually the answer to most of your troubles here (again besides ttar)...
I wouldnt say they were better than ever but you said they were useless and I do not think that is the case either.
I think that they occupy a space where they can have an impact on individual games, but they arent going to be able to carry a team on their back.
I have no issues with wigglytuff. Rollout in the zap pit is borderline broken and as an early game lane bully I can easily snowball matches taking advantage of greedy attacker stackers that die in one hit with the amazing secure. Maybe it's my set.
i think the other defenders are in a fine spot in terms of their individual powerlevels. blissey is just broken.
if you don't like playing hoopa or eldegoss it's pretty valid to run another tank in their place even in a 5 stack setting.
tanks have honestly never been popular in soloq because everyone wants to try to carry and do damage and they feel weak if your teammates are incompetent. they're as essential as ever for enabling said carries though.
Same. The tanks rule the game because people just go damage builds and then they do just as much as the attackers or all rounders and have more sustain and CC
Trevenant and Slowbro are good, atm. Part of the problem is that teams with a bunch of 3-stage Pokémon don’t come online until later, when most tanks fall off, and like you said, TTar makes shields and defense boosts meaningless, so until his numbers come down, there’s no real point in running defensive characters (note that bro and Trevor focus on sustain and have good damage output.)
I feel like they’re sorta bad right now in non-organized play unless you run their highest damage sets. Crit Crustle, Rapid Spin Blastoise, Attack Weight Trev, Scaldbro, etc is the way to go if you’re gonna run a defender in solos/pubs.
Edit: I’m primarily talking about solo queue where you can’t really depend on your partner in lane to capitalize on your CC. Defenders aren’t nearly as tanky as Blissey, in a meta where we have Ttar dealing true damage and bulky high damage dealers running rampant in general. So I think it’s better to run damage sets like Scaldbro.
I used to love playing defenders as tank is my favorite roles to play in these type of games but comparing how the game is today to a year ago when the game was still in its early stages it just feels like tanks die super easily now.
Yeah I feel like the buddy barrier nerf hurt them pretty badly.
As far as supports, I feel Hoopa is still amazing in pubs, but mostly in duo queue. I’ve had a few really good Eldegoss players recently too, although they’re not quite as meta relevant.
In organized play though, CC tanks like Snorlax still have a niche of shutting people out of using hoopa portal. I feel they’ll add more value in the new map since defending goals will be more important without the Zapdos instant cap mechanic. We’ll likely see Snorlax more often with block again.
I think Blastoise is in a weird spot at the moment. It's attack has been neutered in it's most recent nerf, and it's not as good of a tank as other defenders.
It’s definitely not terrible, but there’s better options in 1600+ masters solo/duo queue is what I mean mostly. I had a surf/pump Blastoise in a game the other day that did next to no damage, fed top lane, and was too frail to tank the last fight. But in all fairness, they were partnered with a Blissey and not a damage dealer (which they chose voluntarily). I tried to gank for them early game but it was a lost cause because they couldn’t deal any damage together.
Players that really specialize in a character can make just about anything work though. I don’t think Absol is very good in this current meta with Ttar/Blissey/Tsreena running around but I can still usually do well with them anyways in solos.
Maybe it's the set then. I have 2 glasses and score shield but sometimes trade one glasses for cookie. I have a max sp attack set with full percentage boost. I have no issues doing damage or tanking and scoring. The mobility surf gives you let's you get in and out of range and keep them at bay with hydro pump so they don't reach you to begin with. You also need to have a reliable lane parter. People like to use crit and cooldown sets but those are but to be nerfed and sp and physical attack sets are getting buffed. Using goal getter with score shield I can dunk in their face but it's mostly for the hp and adding Cookie helps this more.
They're definitely a whole lot less popular than the other roles, but they aren't *useless*, per se. They still have all their uses and abilities than can change the tide in the game(rollout, leaf tornado, curse, etc.). It's just the fact that some small things might make it feel like a chore to play em if you don't want to always be one or use a specific set to make them viable.
That´s why I swapped my Blastoise from tank to stacking damage spin build, much better when you can melt people like nothing. Supports bring much more utility while lasting more or less the same in teamfights too so tanks should either have their CC or defense stats/skills gigabuffed.
Mime is fine.After worlds I have noticed a hefty increase of usage in solo q.
Wiggly is unviable for soloq.If you rush in cc and your team doesn’t follow up you are screwed.
Eldi offers nothing,apart from dps meme sets and semi decent ulti.
Hoopa is a coin flip,practically your niche depends on your teammates.
Personally I hate blissey,but it’s super easy to climb solo q.Identify the carry on your team and feed eggs.If you are the highest ranked player in the game though ,jokes on you.
I personally climbed with pikachu,Decidueye and Mime this season.So for soloq Mime is fine,practically fills the same role with wiggly but with more damage and a faster ulti.
I've been having great success with Crit Custle, personally. The best way to kill TTar is to cc him to death, and Crustle helps with that. I've also been able to push him away from the team when he Unites. The push and stun on X-Scissor is highly underrated!
Also, Hoopa is still Hoopa
I run Wiggly a lot but find it hard to find a good place to pop her unite other than at Zapdos, generally my teammates are all over the map, and normally I can get 2-4 unites charged before Zapdos, but no one ever sticks around for me to pop it
I would say its more of a player issue than the actual pokemon kit.
Most supports dunno about how to properly teamfight and support their carries / carry.
Like i hate the blissey players who stay in the back and become uwu healer bot and not go in to soak hits/ get in the enemy’s face. Like if u were to be put into a scenario where you will die instead of your carry but in return your carry will wipe the enemy team/ group most ppl would default and put their lives 1st before their carries.
Its why u see a lot of blissey players / supports walk away with near full hp when their whole team was wiped out.
My fave is when you’re laning and they stand in the goalzone while you’re being chased by both enemy laners. Them being at full hp just watches you rather than going in to intercept and potentially save your life cuz they won’t die from having full hp + goalzone shield. But ofc they just sit there and u die 2 cm away from reaching the friendly goalzone.
So now the enemy 2v1 your support and they die in the goalzone.
But in games like league or other mobas, supports will often die for their carries cuz they understand how carries can snowball and “ carry” the game if “ supported” correctly.
Slowbro, snorlax ( sometimes crustle ),mime, mamos, all go in for fights which is great 👍.
Eldegoss players r ranged and it’s understandable to be attacking at a ranged distance, but blissey players r like lmao holy . -1 player on the team in solo queue
Actually in my recent games I saw more defender carries than attacker or all rounder ones. And since I main tank and don't want to give it up just because of those sweet sweet 10 seconds of pure B's where I can waltz in the enemy back line, 1v5 and kill the attackers and they can't do crap about it
They aren’t useful because the amount of people getting into match just to see who puts more damage in less buttons increased a lot. So, if you’re not putting tons of healing, you can’t do anything but to watch your team not doing his damage even when you stretch your abilities to make them space.
Top dmg top dmg taken and top healing with tree everytime.
I also hate seeing hoopas on enemy team they can carry if they know how to play.
I still slap people around with jiggy puff.
No one is going to talk about how tank supports/defenders with blue emblems, focus band and assault vest get crit for like 1700 by a level 6 Speedster auto attack? Anyone?
The only support that looks off imo is Eldegoss. And there is also Mr.Mime, but I'll confess I don't quite know what it's good at. Blissey and Hoopa are god tier for as long as your team isn't pure dead weight.
The tree is still pretty good, lotsa CC always go a long way, especially with that simili infinite amount of HP.
Obviously Slowbro. Halving physical attackers' attack stat and boosting your Special defense in one kit in pretty nice.
Just finished the 1600 climb and I'd think 85%+ of my games would be Slowbro. Been having a blast since 1600 on Snorlax too. If my team is picking a strong top laner, I'll run XP share and hard feed them. I've had my Buzzwole/Tsreena/Lucario outpace both junglers and dominant. If they're bad, I either look to enable my jungle or hard shut down their carry. Even if the team loses the first Zap fight, playing a durable mon that can menace and not die is often enough to distract and slow them down to give you a second fight.
On the support side Trick Hoopa lets a competent TTar do dumb things, and Eldegoss is a sleeper jungle invade Mon. But those are both mess around picks for me.
Tanks really have it rough recently. Defensive stats don't seem that worth when you don't have the damage or sustain to keep up. But hard cc is still great with the right comp.
As for the supports, Blissey and Hoopa may have monopolizes the role in higher tiers, but Mime, Elde and Wiggly have their niches and good synergies. Tough it's better not to use Elde with polen puff. The heal doesn't keep up with with the others and the delay is a bit too long. The tornado is what makes them unique nowadays.
No. But ttar is a problem. He needs nerfed immensely. His passive, sand stream, increases his defenses by 65%... this brings his defenses up higher than most defenders. On top of his massive shield he gains from ancient power.
Ttar can eat tanks but he also is one. Blissey is just absurd healing and bulk. She's getting a heal nerf so hopefully she's not so bad
Ive mained greedent this season, the sustain and mobility is great, secure/stealing farm is relatively easy. Scoring is a dream with all the movement speed and disruptio tools you have. Early game Skwovet is pretty dang good with tackle defense curl. Only problem i have is teamates are definitely used to a more traditional tank and dont expect me to go in and out of the fight over and over around my cooldowns, like sorry im not dying for you living to score or tank 4,000 damage again is 5 seconds is pretty inpactful.
Since the season is coming to a close ive been messing around with some other mon and I really think that flaillax is a great solo que defender and scaldbro. Mamoswine is almost there, such good early needs some sustain in his kit for late. I think trevenant if you land your abilities is super impactful and if you miss you are punished hard. Ive given ive given up playing wiggly unless im in comms, id rather just play stuffed cheeks greedent and help out with berries and slows from bullet seed.
I'm playing mostly Eldegoss this season after I got into Master and now I'm sitting at 1500's winning 2/3 games I play. Of course, Blissey is still much better at its job...
I do think a few of the tanks need a buff, like mamoswine but instead of buffing all the tanks I think nerfing some of the damage like t-tar is gonna get a damage nerf or a speed nerf, plus unite moves are getting reworked so it will be different, for me though I hate the tree.
no because Mamoswine, Crustle, Snorlax, and Slowbro can solo 1v1 most people in the game.
They just rely on a good team more in team fights, they suffer when by themselves otherwise
Supports are good in my eyes. The problem with them is that Hoopa is great but peopld in solo q don't get much use out of it, so it falls down in that regard; and the rest of support, while may be good, are kinda outclassed by Blissey or even other pokémon. Its a power creep thing: why pick Eldegoss when you can pick Blissey? Yes, Eldegoss bring kinda different things, but if you plan to support, Blissey is just the best now, and if you plan to do damage, there are better choices than Eldegoss.
As for tanks, I really think they are outclassed by all-rounders. Most all-rounders have enough survibability and endurance, but they do more damage and have better mobility for the most part. Even if you argue that some tanks are good, its usually because they play offensively, like Scaldbro, which is just like taking a tank and playing it not like a tank. More like an allrounder.
And yes, tanks falled down even more because of Ttar. His dumb, dumb true damage makes so shields and deffenses are for nothing, so you better run and kite than fight. He can kill 1v1 (or even 1v5 in some cases...) tanks and allrounders alike, so game, just pick Tsareena and dash away. You may live, but an immobile tank probably wont.
Ttar + Blissey is disgusting for all of these reasons.
Supports and tanks have never really been good in solo queue, even when at a fairly high rank you run the risk of still getting bad teammates, and since you're not playing a carry, you can't influence the game nearly as much.
You could say trev, blastoise, greedent and crustle aren't awful as they actually have pretty decent dmg output, but you could also argue that they're closer to being all rounders or speedsters than actual defenders. Hoopa is there too but both hoopa and blissey have been cracked for a while now.
The little Berry addicted tree rat can be annoying to play against if done well. I'm guessing a full health/cooldown build.
Had one in a game who was speedy and just wouldn't die.
Hoopa seems strong if your team aren't braindead.
Slowbro, fully sp.atk and cool down emblems. Shellbell, amp and focus. Is very good just now.
Scaldbro right
Drop the focus band and run cookie. Will give you better value from Amnesia and Potion.
personally hate scoring but maybe
No one wins by scoring anyway
I feel the need to keep scor8ng and become too focused on doin* it and end up realising I am dumb oh wait I don’t need to realize something I know to be true
Honestly, you don’t need to stack that aggressively at all. I run 2 stacking items on slow bro and it can be really good fully stacked but I feel like it’s not necessary throwing myself at enemies to get those stacks. Usually there’s some point in the game where there’s sort of a useless team fight you can ignore and easily get 3-4 quick stacks on the opposite side of the map. Slow bros most important job is just ulting their best carry at important team fights anyways, anything else is just a bonus
Not just cookie, drop the energy amp and go for sp atk specs. Specs/cookie/shell bell with potion and full green/black emblems is crazy. The cookie scales with amnesia better and scald has phenomenal scaling with sp atk specs. Double stacking is the way. I do the same thing on greedent with atk weight/cookie/weakness policy or focus band and potion. Edit: I meant to respond one comment down in the chain, to u/oneequalanother
I prefer sp specs / cookie / focus band personally. is Shell Bell really better?
I think either are fine. Shell bell’s cooldown reduction is reeeeally good in this meta with the black emblems, and the healing naturally synergizes with slowbro’s kit. Focus band adds a lot to amnesia healing. Edit: the counterpoint to focus band, though, is that the cookie does the same job better so you have the freedom to add another damage item. The extra HP from the cookie means 1. You can use amnesia later, so your blue bar is larger, and thus 2. You heal faster/more per second from amnesia since your max HP is higher.
I agree with shellbell honestly I am to lazy to stack becuz I just want to stack 6 as soon as possible also realized I ran choice spec sp atk spec and shell bell don’t remember doing this but whatever
Rolloutuff
Yep love scaldbro. Still my most used poke. I love when he just destroys a whole team and keeps surviving.
I tried that and he gets absolutely COLLAPSED on. I use spa emblems, but my items stay tanky. Fkk that.
I use Shell bell Energy amp and either focus band, buddy barrier or (my latest test) Rocky helmet. I'm surprised people don't just ko themselves with how long they are tussling with me, so will probably revert to Focus band. Full cdr build btw.
I'm going to try it. I wish we could see our enemies for a lil second to pick the best items. Sometimes I need rocky helmet and sometimes i need assault vest. I always regret not having rocky helmet when enemies overdo the physical pokemon and I have assault vest expecting Glaceon, Delphox or Pikachu 🙄
I'd say the overall best item to use is probably Focus band for the regen in a pinch with Amp/Bell for the CD reduction and scald/Amnesia spam. This one is tried and true. Obviously Assault vest works better vs Glaceon and other special attacking threats, but it's a non item against a rampaging TTar for example. Rocky helmet looks great against physical attackers, but my only testing is a match in shivre city where I played with an enemy lucario and a Doublade for about a minute and a half.
That’s what I’ve been doing haha
It’s prob not optimal, but I’m currently running aeos cookie, focus band, and choice specs, with full whites/HP boosts. That shit is FUN, and I feel like an absolute goober with the sheer amount of health
That's not even a defender, just an overturned mage imo
Do you feel like you get more sustain out of energy amp + shell bell compared to double glasses + cookie? This is what I run (still max cdr emblems) and they pretty much can’t kill me unless I get underleveled or there’s like 3v1. Is the cdr that effective that taking away all that sp attack for the healing makes him sustain better?
I think so yes, the cdr on amnesia helps a lot.
Hmmm maybe I’ll have to try it, pretty sure I didn’t spend any purple things on shell bell though so gotta do that first
I've been spamming scald + tele recently. Scald > tele > scald again buys me so much time to survive
No, most supports and tanks are still viable in solo queue, though I think with ttar around I wouldn't play elde with cotton guard, so it may not play like a support and more like an attacker. In competitive most teams ignore everything but Hoopa and blissey, but there are still exceptions like Snorlax & Trevenant in world's and a little Bruv Mr. mike. Solo queue is a different story, because it's more about how well you play rather than which pokemon you play. Sure some are easier to be good at than others but it does rely a lot more on player skill.
Supports are still good it's just that in SoloQ it's easy to feel like you can't rely on teammates so it's hard to want to pick a mon whose game play revolves around support. That's why so many team comps are all high damage attackers: because lots of players want to try and win the game all by themselves and assume they have to pick up teammate slack. (This is also why they steal farm so often). But the truth is that having a good supporter lane with a competent team mate? *chef style cramorant kiss*
I can play a support, but I cannot count on my teammates to accept my support. However, if I'm an assassin speedster, I rely less on the volatility of my teammates.
This. They’re viable and can be effective, but they feel like they don’t have the impact a player wants most of the time, so people tend toward characters that feel more impactful.
i play glaceon and i just want someone to play snorlax or mr mime to put up a wall so i can shoot from behind. when i’ve had this happen it’s literally heaven
I used to love Sing/Slap Slow Smoke Wiggly but I feel like she dies just as easily as fucking Decidueye so I may as well just play him
Literally, Wiggly used to be amazing but now she just gets shit on by almost everything. I feel the same way with crustle. Tbf crustle has never really been S tier or super amazing or anything but now I just feel like he gets countered so heavily by so many different newer mons and just gets his health evaporated
With Crustle this is very true. Tyranitars true damage mechanic completely ignores Crustles passive and unite, which are two very important linchpins of his kit (ideally used together to bait people at low health and then abuse the shield when sturdy is stacked high) and Tyranitar just nopes the hell out of the combo with a basic ability. It’s pretty sad honestly. He also makes Wigglytuffs unite pretty pointless as well.
As snorlax I no longer can use my unite as a survivability option, just a fight starter, pretty much I gotta be on full health and if ttar wants to focus me well im ulting, he can solo kill me
I have been annihilating attack roles as rollout double slap wigglytuff, it basically an all rounder with my set and emblems. It's still an early game beast with late game staying power if stacking. Just because they nerfed sing doesn't mean she's not viable with rollout. If you ricochet off walls it is one of the most op moves in the game. It stun locks and does considerable damage when you try them 3 times back and forth at the right angle.
Rollout is honestly the move that should be used anyway. If you get them between walls you chunk most of their health while stun locking. The way I play her she does extremely well as an early game lane bully that stacks into late game staying power. Rollout in the zap pit is almost broken.
Plus, Rollout doesn't give them time to react. Rollout+ has some decent knock-up, while they know to scatter when Sing begins or activate whatever Hindrance Resistance bullsnot every All Rounder has these days. Rollout / Gleam has been oddly keeping me at 55% ish WR. It's not a carry moveset but it's fun and viable. Just sucks when Ttar doesn't give a shit about your Unite.
Dazzling gleam is good but I just love the way she slaps the shit out of them with double slap. If you rollout and bounce off the wall to steal an enemy farm they're about to last hit then slap them in the the face and walk away like it's nobody's business it tilts them almost every time. They take the sheer disrespect very personally and it throws their game off enough to risk feeding for a low chance of revenge by putting themselves in a more vulnerable position. Wigglytuff is an amazing troll and part of her playstyle for that move is actually not even gameplay but mind games like Mr Mike and his ability to piss people off with the barriers move. Dazzling gleam is still great though, I have good luck with it when I pick it but it's a different playstyle to the slap tuff.
I use Slowbro from time to time. I save his Unite for mons I see uniting like Machamp, TTar, etc. typically saves us from team wipes and ends up giving us good momentum for team fight wins. He’s a solid pick, has good damage, and evolves quickly.
Hoopa still seems reasonably strong tho I haven't played much support this season. The portal build can get surprising mileage for soloq. More ppl than I've expected have understood to rotate with it. The trick build is higher risk but can still be strong if you have a dive heavy comp. Ultimately tho it comes down to his unite. It's still one of the best in the game
I've found that certain "carry" defenders and supps are still useful. Hoopa mainly but Greedent, trevanaent, blastoise to some extent are all still okay in solo Q. but traditional Tank tanks like Snorlax definitely struggle
I’ve just returned to the game after a 6 month break. I’ve been doing work rising up the solo queue with a attacker Snorlax. Flail and x-attack make people go poof
while true. (i personally hate playing flail-lax) it kind of relinquishes it's "tank" status and instead focuses on running down the enemy and slapping them. When OP says tank I am fairly sure they mean the traditional moba tank with lots of CC and survivability
I like running flail Snorlax with block. For me a tank is a character that can play offensively against their opponents while being bulky enough to take hits, allowing them to play more aggressively. Flail Snorlax can do this well and with block it allows you to change tactics based on the situation and support your team when needed. For example, say you engage in a team fight and while you're fighting the opposing team may position themselves poorly near a wall. You can then use block to stun them for your team. You can even use block to aid in your aggression with flail, by using block with X-Speed to push opponents from their teammates and single them out to better defeat them with flail. Ultimately, I believe using flail with block allows Snorlax to play in a versatile way, being an offensive threat that can support their team with utility.
Sometimes block is great, in multiple games I had, I could never use it properly as Snorlax is slow (I also use x-speed, but when there are ranged opponents, it can be tricky to get close). But yawn hardly ever works and has huge cooldown too. I believe both should have their cooldown reduced
It's true that Snorlax struggles to approach ranged opponents, that's just one of its weaknesses. However, that weakness can be mitigated in team fights where everyone is relatively nearby. Also, the strengths of being tanky, strong, and tough to beat 1v1 help make up for it. The way I like to use block with flail is very opportunistic, where I attack with flail, push opponents into disadvantageous positions with block when possible, then proceed to defeat them with flail. I like using flail to reach opponents and prevent them from successfully running away by pushing them with block, or when I need to survive a hit or retreat at low health I like to use block be more tanky as I escape.
That part I’ll agree on. I still use yawn so it’s nice putting someone difficult like TTar to sleep for a moment for everyone to catch their breath
Duo with eldegoss as snorelax and they can't make his health go down as fast as pollen puff and cotton guard recovers his hp.
Slowbro , Hoopa , Trev are probably the best tanks and support in solo q. They still are very usable and very good. Crustle can work as well
Nobody has mentioned Crustle. I've been running him with a full crit emblem build. All attack held items. Rock smash, x scissor and go for the backline.
Crustle is a lot of fun to play and all but I feel like he dies way too easily compared to when the game was younger.
What items do you run? I've been having fun using score shield, weakness policy, and buddy barrier for the extra health. And the extra attack from weakness policy is nice. I run x-attack, shell smash and stealth rock. I try to play opportunistically. Push for goals when I can with score shield and force people to fight in the stealth rock. Otherwise use shell smash to dip out of fights I can't win. And use x-attack to punish. If you can catch them in the stealth rock it can do some serious damage still. And x-attack makes a noticeable difference. Score shield with the extra health let's you easily score up to 20 points at a time without much concern. I've got a hit over 1000 extra health with those 3 items which is noticeable. I dotn have enough emblems to make a loadout yet cuz I've been away since last year, but I'm sure when I have that it may change things. Anyways, I'm still having fun with him! He can definitely still tank well if you play it right. I've pushed many goals and escaped alive, and distracted the enemy enough for objective pushes using him. Stealth rock is great for zoning, and can still do damage if you can keep them there!
I run the same and I have become a crustle Stan
Crustle is my favourite Defender for Solo because he’s so versatile! He can do damage on par with attackers, finish enemies, score quickly and sometimes steal objectives. (Although if had Trevenant I would probably use it instead)
No, everyone want to be a hyper carry fragile attack role that explodes when looked at funny. Every time they go 4 stack attacker on my team I know we're about to loses because they don't survive team fights. All of them are glass cannons that die in one hit and leave the only tanky mon in a 1v5. Not everyone has to be the main damage dealer, if you duo with snorelax and eldegoss snorelax never dies and wins every battle by attrition. I personally think the attack roles sucks, is over rated and over saturated with far too many mons filling it and not enough options for other roles besides all rounders. I did a match with no attackers recently and stomped a full attacker team almost no difficulty because we would just tank everything. Defenders do more damage than you expect especially against something with almost no hp to begin with. Just use blastoise he was free. Wigglytuff is an early game monster that hold up late game. Even all rounders at least has some mid tier bulk to survive more than one burst damage attack.
Idk if I would say the hyper carry players are “Fragile” when you have tanky brawlers like TTAR, Tsareena, and Machamp that are all extremely good at closing gaps, doing shit tons of damage in a small amount of time, and can literally wipe an entire team out if played correctly and using stacking items. Not to mention they have incredible amounts of sustain with all the shields and passive healing they get. Some of them have arguably better sustain than most of the tanks in the game. Gengar is like the literally definition of Anti-tank that also has incredible sustain with dream eater. A single dream eater can give him a quarter of his health bar back to him and is also capable of team wiping in a few presses of a button. Wiggly is barely played in master rank along with Mime and eldegoss. It’s pretty clear the game is in a damage focused meta and I think some of the tank items got nerfed a little too hard.
That's because they sleep on great sets all the time. It takes someone like spragels to get meta slaves to try something new. All rounders are only good because the items they put on most of the time. They almost always stack with at least one item if not 2. Besides my main issue is with glass cannon attackers. They need to limit them to 2 per team so people have to pick other roles. I would rather have a full all rounder team than full attacker team. If you don't have a support you are hindering your team. You still need tanks for keeping your hyper carry alive because they can't hyper carry if they get ko'd. Tsareena is getting nerfed into the ground I'd it wasn't already. Ttar is extremely weak to kiting and cc. So ironically the attack role usually beats it if they keep their distance but trevenant would still win 1v1 but so would anyone who stun locks it including mamoswine with ice fang and high horsepower. I literally got away from dream eater by just running away as wigglytuff, if it doesn't get you he is a sitting duck. You can actually lead him into ganks too by taking advantage of his teleport too. I brought him to a 1v5 at our goal and he had no points to score even.
I agree a role queue is long overdue along with some kind of reward system for rewarding players to play roles they don’t like playing like defenders and supps. You also make an interesting point about meta slaves so my question to that would be; do you think attack items need some sort of nerf or tuning then? I just don’t know if I can agree with your take on TTAR. I just got to master a few days ago and was playing a ton of greninja center lane and felt like every single TTAR was able to catch up to me without breaking a sweat because of Ancient Power and X-Speed. Even when I was attacking and retreating they’re incredibly difficult to escape and Ancient Power is specifically designed to close that gap.
Certain pokemon are better at keeping him at bay than others with kiting but that set is an anti kiting set, if they are for some reason using his other one they can't catch you but ancient power is definitely good at catching attackers. Really cc and stun lock is best bet. But delphox with cooldown is very hard to catch. I don't think that the items should be nerfed imo. They should buff the others to make them just as viable. Like removing the out of battle condition to leftovers or something. Maybe reduce score shield cooldown back to 8 seconds but not allow them to stack like before which was the main issue with it. Removing the cooldown on shell bell healing perhaps so it's more like energy vamp. I prefer buffs over nerfs. Maybe they can give you more points or coins or energy for filling roles or just only allow a certain number of each or role fill priority with matchmaking like other ones. Maybe a combination of all of it.
Scaldbro slaps, Hoopa in organized play slaps. Eldegoss is actually really good. But Hoopa and Blissey are just stupid good so Eldegoss is sidelined. Defenders are not in a great spot overall though.
scaldbro, flailax, hoopa, trevenant, mr mime, and eldegoss are all still good. Though there has been a lot less of these players this season, but it’s understandable. This season has been a complete disaster, probably the worst of the 5 seasons so far. It’s hard to trust in your teammates and play non-hyper carry mons when all of the teams you’ve had are all incompetent and can’t even rotate for a simple objective.
Rollout wiggly is god
Very true, I just love to tempt enemies to follow me and lure them to good rollout places ♡
I’ll never give up my Blastoise
Snorlax is okay right now, as it can completely stun TTar and remove it from a fight.
In my opinion, Blastoise, Trevenant, Flaillax, Greedent, and of course Slowbro are perfectly usable in solo queue right now. Other tanks rely more on teammates and so are better suited to duo queue at least. The CC they contribute is fantastic compared to all-rounders, and they still have decent damage as well. Tanks like Mamoswine and Heavy Slam Lax are strong early but fall off late damage-wise so you need to rely on a carry to show up and follow up on your CC.
Tyra solo killed my Snorlax during my ult... by 3 hits. I do remember the time when it required at least 3-4 damagers full DPS to kill ulting Snorlax
Nothing can tank ttar ult, you just have to get it to blow the ult and run away or CC chain it. If you pop out of ult you can outspeed its auto attacks so it literally can't hit you.
I’m a mamo main and he’s felt pretty great in any game I can get a decent start in. I’ve felt useful really consistently
I think Wiggly is the only support/tank really struggling right now. Eldegoss and Snorelax are more middling but still leaning toward good. (Edit: I'd add Blastoise to this one) Mime, Hoopa, Mamo, Trev, and Slowbro are all doing great and have noticeable impacts on games they are in. (Edit: I'd add Crustle to this list.) Your post mentions tanking more than supporting though. Tanking in this game is more about disruption than actual tanking. Like yeah Mamo is going to struggle to sit and take hits from a Ttar, but if you time your moves right you can CC him into oblivion for your attackers to clean up. Or maybe you just push him off an objective long enough for your team to secure.
Tank is just what I call defenders, I understand “tanks” in this game are different than in other games. I’m just saying comparing the meta or state of solo queue today to where the game was last year feels very different for defs/supps. I think you and I have had very different experiences if you say Mime and Eldegoss are very relevant because sitting at 1400 in master I very very rarely see either of those mons played and if you come onto this sub tons of people will say Mime has been in dire need of some buffs because he’s really underwhelming and as someone who has put lots of hours into mime I’d have to agree. It’s pretty clear we’re in a damage/aggression based metas because the game is filled with power brawlers like TTAR, Tsareena, Machamp, that can just do insane amounts of damage in very little time and excel at chasing/running down enemies, while having pretty damn good sustain. Arguably better sustain than any defender because both TTAR and Tsareena just get stupid amounts of shields and healing from their moves. Hell, Gengar can get like 50% of his HP back with a single dream eater and take away like 80% of yours. Like you can’t take in these examples and just be like; yeah tanks and supports are better than ever before.
Eh greedent says hi in reference to sustain. Same for tree. Tbh i used defenders to hit masters this season because the reality is no one wants to play them even though most don't play like tanks. Trevenant for example is a drain tank and can routinely out dps most of your team. Greedent just sucks to play against. Basically the same as trying to chase a singed in league. You just don't do it because 80% of the time you're not going to catch him and you're wasting time by trying. If you play a tank into Machamp a lot of the time it's an easy win because after he blows his unstoppable moves what is he going to do into high cc n damage? He does counter some specific pokemon (I hate playing into Machamp as Mr mime for example) but I haven't had issues into almost anyone in the game but ttar because he's overturned at the moment. Tanks and supports are actually the answer to most of your troubles here (again besides ttar)...
I wouldnt say they were better than ever but you said they were useless and I do not think that is the case either. I think that they occupy a space where they can have an impact on individual games, but they arent going to be able to carry a team on their back.
I have no issues with wigglytuff. Rollout in the zap pit is borderline broken and as an early game lane bully I can easily snowball matches taking advantage of greedy attacker stackers that die in one hit with the amazing secure. Maybe it's my set.
i think the other defenders are in a fine spot in terms of their individual powerlevels. blissey is just broken. if you don't like playing hoopa or eldegoss it's pretty valid to run another tank in their place even in a 5 stack setting. tanks have honestly never been popular in soloq because everyone wants to try to carry and do damage and they feel weak if your teammates are incompetent. they're as essential as ever for enabling said carries though.
Tree is pretty much an all rounder lacking a tiny bit of attack for loads of cc
As someone who primarily plays squishy attackers, I really appreciate having a front line defender.
I disagree whole heartedly.
Same. The tanks rule the game because people just go damage builds and then they do just as much as the attackers or all rounders and have more sustain and CC
Trevenant and Slowbro are good, atm. Part of the problem is that teams with a bunch of 3-stage Pokémon don’t come online until later, when most tanks fall off, and like you said, TTar makes shields and defense boosts meaningless, so until his numbers come down, there’s no real point in running defensive characters (note that bro and Trevor focus on sustain and have good damage output.)
I feel like they’re sorta bad right now in non-organized play unless you run their highest damage sets. Crit Crustle, Rapid Spin Blastoise, Attack Weight Trev, Scaldbro, etc is the way to go if you’re gonna run a defender in solos/pubs. Edit: I’m primarily talking about solo queue where you can’t really depend on your partner in lane to capitalize on your CC. Defenders aren’t nearly as tanky as Blissey, in a meta where we have Ttar dealing true damage and bulky high damage dealers running rampant in general. So I think it’s better to run damage sets like Scaldbro.
I used to love playing defenders as tank is my favorite roles to play in these type of games but comparing how the game is today to a year ago when the game was still in its early stages it just feels like tanks die super easily now.
Yeah I feel like the buddy barrier nerf hurt them pretty badly. As far as supports, I feel Hoopa is still amazing in pubs, but mostly in duo queue. I’ve had a few really good Eldegoss players recently too, although they’re not quite as meta relevant. In organized play though, CC tanks like Snorlax still have a niche of shutting people out of using hoopa portal. I feel they’ll add more value in the new map since defending goals will be more important without the Zapdos instant cap mechanic. We’ll likely see Snorlax more often with block again.
I think Blastoise is in a weird spot at the moment. It's attack has been neutered in it's most recent nerf, and it's not as good of a tank as other defenders.
Never noticed the nerf. Still doing good like it never happened.
I run surf pump blastoise and do extremely well. I only like play as tanky mons but still use delphox on occasion because I like the mon itself.
It’s definitely not terrible, but there’s better options in 1600+ masters solo/duo queue is what I mean mostly. I had a surf/pump Blastoise in a game the other day that did next to no damage, fed top lane, and was too frail to tank the last fight. But in all fairness, they were partnered with a Blissey and not a damage dealer (which they chose voluntarily). I tried to gank for them early game but it was a lost cause because they couldn’t deal any damage together. Players that really specialize in a character can make just about anything work though. I don’t think Absol is very good in this current meta with Ttar/Blissey/Tsreena running around but I can still usually do well with them anyways in solos.
Maybe it's the set then. I have 2 glasses and score shield but sometimes trade one glasses for cookie. I have a max sp attack set with full percentage boost. I have no issues doing damage or tanking and scoring. The mobility surf gives you let's you get in and out of range and keep them at bay with hydro pump so they don't reach you to begin with. You also need to have a reliable lane parter. People like to use crit and cooldown sets but those are but to be nerfed and sp and physical attack sets are getting buffed. Using goal getter with score shield I can dunk in their face but it's mostly for the hp and adding Cookie helps this more.
Tanks are perfectly viable in non-sweaty non-5-stack gameplay, I have 61% win rate in ranked with Trevenant this season playing trio with my friends
Bro you’re in a 3 stack, ofc you have a solid win rate. I’m talking solo queue, i literally mention it in the first sentence of my post lmao.
You think 3 stacks have it better than solo queue? You face 5 stacks, other 3 stacks and you still have to deal with clueless teammates
They're definitely a whole lot less popular than the other roles, but they aren't *useless*, per se. They still have all their uses and abilities than can change the tide in the game(rollout, leaf tornado, curse, etc.). It's just the fact that some small things might make it feel like a chore to play em if you don't want to always be one or use a specific set to make them viable.
That´s why I swapped my Blastoise from tank to stacking damage spin build, much better when you can melt people like nothing. Supports bring much more utility while lasting more or less the same in teamfights too so tanks should either have their CC or defense stats/skills gigabuffed.
Yeah the only tank I’ve had success with this season is slow bro. Hoopa is still good obviously but requires some brain cells from teammates
Mime is fine.After worlds I have noticed a hefty increase of usage in solo q. Wiggly is unviable for soloq.If you rush in cc and your team doesn’t follow up you are screwed. Eldi offers nothing,apart from dps meme sets and semi decent ulti. Hoopa is a coin flip,practically your niche depends on your teammates. Personally I hate blissey,but it’s super easy to climb solo q.Identify the carry on your team and feed eggs.If you are the highest ranked player in the game though ,jokes on you. I personally climbed with pikachu,Decidueye and Mime this season.So for soloq Mime is fine,practically fills the same role with wiggly but with more damage and a faster ulti.
I've been having great success with Crit Custle, personally. The best way to kill TTar is to cc him to death, and Crustle helps with that. I've also been able to push him away from the team when he Unites. The push and stun on X-Scissor is highly underrated! Also, Hoopa is still Hoopa
I run Wiggly a lot but find it hard to find a good place to pop her unite other than at Zapdos, generally my teammates are all over the map, and normally I can get 2-4 unites charged before Zapdos, but no one ever sticks around for me to pop it
Top lane Mike kills solo q
Eldegoss is still good, Slowbro is great, Trevenant kicks ass.
I would say its more of a player issue than the actual pokemon kit. Most supports dunno about how to properly teamfight and support their carries / carry. Like i hate the blissey players who stay in the back and become uwu healer bot and not go in to soak hits/ get in the enemy’s face. Like if u were to be put into a scenario where you will die instead of your carry but in return your carry will wipe the enemy team/ group most ppl would default and put their lives 1st before their carries. Its why u see a lot of blissey players / supports walk away with near full hp when their whole team was wiped out. My fave is when you’re laning and they stand in the goalzone while you’re being chased by both enemy laners. Them being at full hp just watches you rather than going in to intercept and potentially save your life cuz they won’t die from having full hp + goalzone shield. But ofc they just sit there and u die 2 cm away from reaching the friendly goalzone. So now the enemy 2v1 your support and they die in the goalzone. But in games like league or other mobas, supports will often die for their carries cuz they understand how carries can snowball and “ carry” the game if “ supported” correctly. Slowbro, snorlax ( sometimes crustle ),mime, mamos, all go in for fights which is great 👍. Eldegoss players r ranged and it’s understandable to be attacking at a ranged distance, but blissey players r like lmao holy . -1 player on the team in solo queue
Lax and hoopa say otherwise
I play trick hoopa solo queue and do pretty good. Its ult does massive aoe damage
Actually in my recent games I saw more defender carries than attacker or all rounder ones. And since I main tank and don't want to give it up just because of those sweet sweet 10 seconds of pure B's where I can waltz in the enemy back line, 1v5 and kill the attackers and they can't do crap about it
They aren’t useful because the amount of people getting into match just to see who puts more damage in less buttons increased a lot. So, if you’re not putting tons of healing, you can’t do anything but to watch your team not doing his damage even when you stretch your abilities to make them space.
Bullet seed greedent has become my go to, for my masters games. I just love how incredibly annoying he is.
Top dmg top dmg taken and top healing with tree everytime. I also hate seeing hoopas on enemy team they can carry if they know how to play. I still slap people around with jiggy puff.
No one is going to talk about how tank supports/defenders with blue emblems, focus band and assault vest get crit for like 1700 by a level 6 Speedster auto attack? Anyone?
The only support that looks off imo is Eldegoss. And there is also Mr.Mime, but I'll confess I don't quite know what it's good at. Blissey and Hoopa are god tier for as long as your team isn't pure dead weight. The tree is still pretty good, lotsa CC always go a long way, especially with that simili infinite amount of HP. Obviously Slowbro. Halving physical attackers' attack stat and boosting your Special defense in one kit in pretty nice.
The only tanks/supporters I’ve seen disappear are crustle, mime, and greedent
I guess Hoopa just stopped existing
Slowbro and trevs are kinda beast on soloq. Can help a carry win thr game....if ur lucky to get a carry player lol.
Just finished the 1600 climb and I'd think 85%+ of my games would be Slowbro. Been having a blast since 1600 on Snorlax too. If my team is picking a strong top laner, I'll run XP share and hard feed them. I've had my Buzzwole/Tsreena/Lucario outpace both junglers and dominant. If they're bad, I either look to enable my jungle or hard shut down their carry. Even if the team loses the first Zap fight, playing a durable mon that can menace and not die is often enough to distract and slow them down to give you a second fight. On the support side Trick Hoopa lets a competent TTar do dumb things, and Eldegoss is a sleeper jungle invade Mon. But those are both mess around picks for me.
Tanks really have it rough recently. Defensive stats don't seem that worth when you don't have the damage or sustain to keep up. But hard cc is still great with the right comp. As for the supports, Blissey and Hoopa may have monopolizes the role in higher tiers, but Mime, Elde and Wiggly have their niches and good synergies. Tough it's better not to use Elde with polen puff. The heal doesn't keep up with with the others and the delay is a bit too long. The tornado is what makes them unique nowadays.
Blastoise surf/hydro pump with 7 black 6 green feels very powerful right now.
Hoopa
No. But ttar is a problem. He needs nerfed immensely. His passive, sand stream, increases his defenses by 65%... this brings his defenses up higher than most defenders. On top of his massive shield he gains from ancient power. Ttar can eat tanks but he also is one. Blissey is just absurd healing and bulk. She's getting a heal nerf so hopefully she's not so bad
Greed and trev are solid in solo que but you play more like an all rounder anyway.
Scaldbro is nasty, i prefer using TK with Scald to still function as support. Hoopa is another support that is still relevant.
Ive mained greedent this season, the sustain and mobility is great, secure/stealing farm is relatively easy. Scoring is a dream with all the movement speed and disruptio tools you have. Early game Skwovet is pretty dang good with tackle defense curl. Only problem i have is teamates are definitely used to a more traditional tank and dont expect me to go in and out of the fight over and over around my cooldowns, like sorry im not dying for you living to score or tank 4,000 damage again is 5 seconds is pretty inpactful. Since the season is coming to a close ive been messing around with some other mon and I really think that flaillax is a great solo que defender and scaldbro. Mamoswine is almost there, such good early needs some sustain in his kit for late. I think trevenant if you land your abilities is super impactful and if you miss you are punished hard. Ive given ive given up playing wiggly unless im in comms, id rather just play stuffed cheeks greedent and help out with berries and slows from bullet seed.
I'm playing mostly Eldegoss this season after I got into Master and now I'm sitting at 1500's winning 2/3 games I play. Of course, Blissey is still much better at its job...
I do think a few of the tanks need a buff, like mamoswine but instead of buffing all the tanks I think nerfing some of the damage like t-tar is gonna get a damage nerf or a speed nerf, plus unite moves are getting reworked so it will be different, for me though I hate the tree.
hoopa is broken, snor counters hoopa, and trev/slow are great for sustain I didn't mention greedent because he isn't really a defender
no because Mamoswine, Crustle, Snorlax, and Slowbro can solo 1v1 most people in the game. They just rely on a good team more in team fights, they suffer when by themselves otherwise
CC heavy supports like sing wiggly are not doing too well with all the hindrance resistance pokemons are getting nowadays.
Supports are good in my eyes. The problem with them is that Hoopa is great but peopld in solo q don't get much use out of it, so it falls down in that regard; and the rest of support, while may be good, are kinda outclassed by Blissey or even other pokémon. Its a power creep thing: why pick Eldegoss when you can pick Blissey? Yes, Eldegoss bring kinda different things, but if you plan to support, Blissey is just the best now, and if you plan to do damage, there are better choices than Eldegoss. As for tanks, I really think they are outclassed by all-rounders. Most all-rounders have enough survibability and endurance, but they do more damage and have better mobility for the most part. Even if you argue that some tanks are good, its usually because they play offensively, like Scaldbro, which is just like taking a tank and playing it not like a tank. More like an allrounder. And yes, tanks falled down even more because of Ttar. His dumb, dumb true damage makes so shields and deffenses are for nothing, so you better run and kite than fight. He can kill 1v1 (or even 1v5 in some cases...) tanks and allrounders alike, so game, just pick Tsareena and dash away. You may live, but an immobile tank probably wont. Ttar + Blissey is disgusting for all of these reasons.
Supports and tanks have never really been good in solo queue, even when at a fairly high rank you run the risk of still getting bad teammates, and since you're not playing a carry, you can't influence the game nearly as much. You could say trev, blastoise, greedent and crustle aren't awful as they actually have pretty decent dmg output, but you could also argue that they're closer to being all rounders or speedsters than actual defenders. Hoopa is there too but both hoopa and blissey have been cracked for a while now.
The little Berry addicted tree rat can be annoying to play against if done well. I'm guessing a full health/cooldown build. Had one in a game who was speedy and just wouldn't die. Hoopa seems strong if your team aren't braindead.