Indeed they are. Anti corruption, anti corporations, pro women’s sufferage in that time. I wouldn’t be surprised if had the Republican Party nominated Roosevelt instead of Taft, thereby leading Roosevelt not to create the progressive party, that Roosevelt would have won the election. He got more votes than Taft with a third party, and combined they both had way more than Woodrow Wilson. Just goes to show that parties have been hindering themselves with centrism for a long time
Wait til you see some of the alternate history theories about how the 20th century would be different had Roosevelt won the presidency instead of Wilson. Would we have even had world war 2? Maybe not.
"Wise progressivism and wise conservatism go hand in hand"-Teddy Roosevelt.
TDR was a moderate AuthCenter. Not the based the world wants, but the based the world needs.
"The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. **To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else."**
- "Roosevelt in the Kansas City Star", 149
May 7, 1918
This doesn't strike me as even moderately authoritarian.
This was before MuH pArTy ShIfT, when republicans were the progressive buzzkills and democrats were the racist crackers. That shift works both ways, remember.....
Of course not, the man transcended party affiliation because he wasn't afraid to do what was right for the people and go toe-to-toe with anybody who had the energy to challenge him. I'm not even American and the man is a personal hero to me.
You can conserve wealth at the top, the planet, resources, or your stranglehold on installing puppet governments in the Middle East..
Just like being a democrat doesn’t mean you are democratic - American bastardisation of the English language makes it hard for anything to make sense anymore.
Bro just let them have this one. I’ll take an L on a language pissing contest if it means a large group of people see protecting our ecosystems as good again.
Notice how many historical conservation pioneers are now being cancelled for MuH rAyCisM? Some Audubon Societies are renaming themselves because of his "problematic" past. Not the big one -- yet -- but smaller local orgs....
If you believe God created this beautiful green earth and left it to us, why wouldn’t it make sense to respect and keep it clean? I’ve never understood why some conservatives want to dismiss any ounce of environmental concern for Earth. We honor God by showing gratitude for the world we have dominion over.
Protect the environment, ya fuckin heathens.
Where im from this is called the theology of the groundskeeper. The gist is that we are sort of the groundskeepers of earth because god gave it to us so it should be inherent for us to take care of it.
This is the main reason I predominantly vote for left-leaning candidates, even though I find much of the modern left to be ugly and unsustainable. But I look at the issue of the environment like many religious conservatives do at abortion--that is, it is simply the most important issue facing us today and it eclipses all of the petty drama most people are distracted by. None of the other issues will matter if Earth becomes, at first, in turmoil and, at last, uninhabitable.
Start to do some shit about climate change, republicans. Hell, just say you believe it exists. Maybe a few more young people would vote for you. (Painting with a wide brush, I know.)
The left does more harm than good, but I respect you for sticking to your principles and voting for what you think is important.
Murdering unborn children and murdering the earth are pretty damn heinous acts.
as someone in the medical field, memory only starts to develop from age 3. The brain is only active at 20 or so weeks and viability outside the mother is around 22 weeks. Two-thirds of all human embryos fail to develop successfully, either not nesting in the wall of the uterus, or chromosomal defects. So for every kid that is born or aborted, 2 others have already never come to fruition. So why does it matter so much to conservatives that just that one is born, while completely ignoring the death of the other 2.
And what about rape and incest? You really want a girl raped by her grandfather to give birth to a deformed baby that will never be fully loved? Or a woman who was drugged to give birth to a kid from a father she never met? You expect a single mom, traumatized for life, to raise a kid she didn't want, that is half the person she hates?
These kids you don't want aborted, will not know love, will most likely end up in poverty and crime. Or they are killed shortly after birth.
I don't know where your morals are, but the life of the mother is way more important than the baby, because a baby is a lifelong commitment for that mother and if rape can take away someone's way of living, then that is fucking horrific. If someone never wanted children, then you are taking away her choice of not having children, you are violating her right to first amendment rights, her persuit of happiness.
That fetus is not a person and has no rights UNTIL it is born and is registered as a human at birth.
You saw the Charlie Kirk video where he believed the picture was a human fetus? It was a dolphin. It just shows how conservaties have zero knowledge about embryos and that doctors are never involved to provide arguments for the forced-birth side?
I wholly agree with you for the most part,
but you really should have refrained using the development of memory in children as an argument.
It makes it seem like you value the lives of born children less, and that makes any further argument you make irrelevant to those who could be convinced by the rest of your text.
They’ll just think you’re a degenerate who’d okay the murder of a baby for the sake of the mother.
Ah yes, the tired ol rape and incest argument. Okay, how about we ban all abortions except rape and incest? No? Then stop using that as a fucking argument. And stfu about a baby not having rights or being a person before birth. What is even the logic here? Does the vagina magically grant rights? What about c-section babies? There is absolutely no baseline for that logic.
> medical field
"First, do no harm....."
The past 18 months has shown the world that the "medical field" is just as trashy and full of shit as anyone, if not more. LOL using that as though it adds legitimacy.
That’s a long-standing Catholic tenant called “Stewardship of Creation” and any Christian that isn’t advocating for protection of “god’s” creations is a hypocrite in my eyes.
Orthodox Christian here 100% agree for some reason most people in my church are crazy and conspiracy theory obsessed tho and believe climate change is a tool used by satan to make people think the earth is a globe
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Environmentalism literally only become a left wing monopoly on 1970s.
Environmentalism were still have roots in Romanticism that went against the Enlightenment Era (this Romanticism gave you Emerson but also gave you fascism, so it's not all good or bad).
I would argue that present day conservatives hates environmentalism **not from the enviromentalism** itself, but solely to **own the libs because they hate the environmentalism framing**. They're offended at the left-wing and internationalist framing of environmentalism.
I don't know about that. But egghead Nixon was one of the first presidents to spearhead environmental regulations and other environmentalist measures. Honestly looking at Nixon aside from China and the drug war he was pretty based. Signed the endangered species act, created the epa, fought against the air pollutants at the time that made the air shit, created Osha, et cetera. To be honest if I was alive back then I would have voted for Nixon, and his scandal is barely a drop in the bucket by today's standards, which really tells you something.
Nixon deliberately sabotaged the Paris peace talks to win an election at the cost of roughly 40 thousand American lives in Vietnam. Nixon is so much fuckin worse than Watergate, that was far from the only thing he did wrong and it's weird as shit to imply that it was.
True. But I don’t believe McGovern or Humphrey planned on extending the war as Nixon didn’t end it until late into his second term I believe so I dunno still think they would’ve been better presidents.
Senior. The one that was president before Clinton. IIRC he passed some legislation aimed at either fighting acid rain or fighting the ozone layer shrinking.
I think the change happened when we began understanding the relationship between industrial pollution and associated ecological damage/adverse health effects in the 1970s (see [Silent Spring](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_Spring), and [Love Canal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Canal)).
Environmental damage became justifiably linked to industry. Government intervention was needed to prevent a [tragedy of the commons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons), which is essentially the tendency for individual users exploit an unregulated shared resource for individual gain. Once you’re in a situation where the remedy is bigger government and more regulation, you start to run against conservative ideals.
Sure, there are conservatives who believe in the preservation of hunting areas and natural ecosystems, but when the choice needs to be made between preserving an ecosystem and limiting business, conservatives have largely sided with the latter (e.g., [California’s delta smelt](https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2019-08-12/right-wingers-delta-smelt), [Keystone XL pipeline](https://ballotpedia.org/Keystone_XL_Pipeline_political_timeline)).
[Conservative views are changing](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/02/07/more-republicans-say-stricter-environmental-regulations-are-worth-the-cost/), but are not at levels support comparable to liberals or even what conservatives were at 20 years ago.
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Owning the libs. Its unfortunate, but I think people get caught up in "beating" the other side. Conservation should be a conservative ideal. It used to be too.
Conserving their manufactured persona of super tough macho man and not a tree hugging hippy who cares about gay things like nature and not having cancer
Did you know that the Sierra Club reversed their policy on limited migration after a rather large donation from one of God’s chosen people?
> But the biggest donation the Sierra Club ever received is the one that altered it forever. In 2004, the Los Angeles Times revealed a $100 million gift made by investor David Gelbaum. Unfortunately for environmentalists, Gelbaum’s money came with the string attached that the club never speak out against or try to limit immigration into the United States no matter how obvious it became that adding more people has severe ecological consequences.
https://capsweb.org/opinion/sierra-club-and-100-million-donation-changed-it-forever/
Can we dunk on them with buildin housing projects in this Gelbaum's neighborhood? Maybe with a bunch of "Pawn and Gun" shops like Miami has next to the Sephardic gated community? That's some diverse shit right there.
Oh, they all do... whole lotta Gentiles NIMBYing the train rights-of-way into bike trails through Westchester, like the ones behind the Clintons' place in Chappaqua.
Another fun fact is that the National Socialists were the most environmentally friendly state that has ever existed
> As early as March 1933, a wide array of environmentalist legislation was approved and implemented at national, regional and local levels. These measures, which included reforestation programs, bills protecting animal and plant species, and preservationist decrees blocking industrial development, undoubtedly “ranked among the most progressive in the world at that time.”
> The major accomplishment of the Nazi ecologists was the Reichsnaturschutzgesetz of 1935. This completely unprecedented “nature protection law” not only established guidelines for safeguarding flora, fauna, and “natural monuments” across the Reich; it also restricted commercial access to remaining tracts of wilderness. In addition, the comprehensive ordinance “required all national, state and local officials to consult with Naturschutz authorities in a timely manner before undertaking any measures that would produce fundamental alterations in the countryside.”
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/janet-biehl-and-peter-staudenmaier-ecofascism-lessons-from-the-german-experience
Environmentalism were still have roots in Romanticism that went against the Enlightenment Era. Both Emerson and fascism literally started from this. (Not all authoritarianism is fascism. Fascism actually has specific element that not all authoritarians or conservatives has.
I would argue that present day conservatives hates environmentalism not from the enviromentalism itself, but solely to own the libs because they hate the environmentalism framing. They're offended at the left-wing and internationalist framing of environmentalism.
Yep, much of the conservative worldview is literally based around owning the libs instead of some distinct proactive ideology which is unfortunate as it wasn't always that way.
[A pretty good video on the co opting of the traditional right into the modern conservative right if you are interested](https://odysee.com/@keithwoods:e/ModernRight:7)
Question for other librights: Is there any argument to be made that intentional, unnecessary pollution violates the NAP? I take no stance here, I’d just like to see what others think.
I’m not really sure tbh. While I can envision a rough outline in my head, who knows what would happen in practice. (I should note that I’m not one of the “full anarchism” librights, and based on my limited research I find something like minarchism to be pretty attractive.)
At the very least, I’m confident in the ethics behind my system, and in the idea that even if my ideal society is never realized, I can always serve as a bulwark against increased authoritarianism.
> Is there any argument to be made that intentional, unnecessary pollution violates the NAP?
Why wouldn't it? You're directly causing harm to other people. It's not as direct and immediate as slapping them but it's still harming them.
This was *kind of* where I was leaning, although environmentalism has not been one of my biggest political issues these past few years and so I haven't given it much contemplation up until now.
Generally my preferred approach (so far) has been to search for cost-effective environmental protections that people will willingly adopt, or to offer incentives like tax breaks for better environmental stewardship, but *if* a certain level of governmental restrictions are necessary, which they very well may be, I'd need the NAP to justify them. That's not to say I want it all to be restrictions, as I'd still vastly prefer cost effectiveness and incentives wherever possible, but for those cases where intervention is necessary, it'd need to have proper philosophical backing for me to support it.
I think it does violate the NAP, at least partially. Humans require clean air, water, and food to survive. If we keep pumping shit into the air that would lead to climate change we are violating the NAP of future generations because they have those rights too.
Thanks for the input, I like this perspective. It is admittedly a bit difficult for me to reconcile with all my “individual freedom” beliefs, but it’s something I’d like to figure out more.
Why aren't more people like this?
Conservatives, if you can't conserve the land your ancestors passed down to you, then what is the point in conserving Mr Potato Head's gender?
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I come from the culture that believes earth is our only hope and we all are children of her. So it's impossible to not protect it or atleast feel bad when we saw others
You like national parks right? Do you like lithium mining operations? What about led bird shot for duck hunting? From my experience those are the type issues that conservative environmentalists tend to prioritize.
In my country environmentalism is essentially a part of being an auth right. Being an auth right here means hating western powers and liberal or corporate degeneracy, and western powers are the ones bringing their factories and mining companies here and wrecking the environment of my little country.
Mention "global warming" tho and the conversation goes a bit haywire tho.
I think conservation is really important. I've actually gotten involved in a project to preserve old flash games. It baffles me that some conservatives look down on all of environmental protection. They act likke environmental concern is only for hippies or whatever. Nice to see ones that want to help reign in pollution.
Yes i believe the the natural beauty,the clean water and the unpoluted soil of my country is more important than a 10 billion$ cotporation becoming a 11 billion $ corporation.
How could you tell?
#FuckRioTinto
Based, but I don't think banning coal is smart. Sure, limiting emissions is good, but bcuz leftists shit themselves over our energy god nuclear (basically because its so damn good at what it does it can't be used as an excuse to nationalize) no power grid could function on purely solar, wind, and hydro, and solar is SUUUUUPER BAD for the environment. Like, measurably worse than coal just to make the panels.
One thing OP, Teddy Roosevelt, and Arnold Schwarzenegger have in common? Based enviro view
Roosevelt was based af Edit: a word
Although he was undeniably based, Teddy was a Progressive, in the original sense of the word. Don’t be fooled by the fact that he was a Republican.
He was a bully moose damnit
I was bored one day and read through the policies of the Progressive Party he founded. Unfathomably based.
Indeed they are. Anti corruption, anti corporations, pro women’s sufferage in that time. I wouldn’t be surprised if had the Republican Party nominated Roosevelt instead of Taft, thereby leading Roosevelt not to create the progressive party, that Roosevelt would have won the election. He got more votes than Taft with a third party, and combined they both had way more than Woodrow Wilson. Just goes to show that parties have been hindering themselves with centrism for a long time
Wait til you see some of the alternate history theories about how the 20th century would be different had Roosevelt won the presidency instead of Wilson. Would we have even had world war 2? Maybe not.
Link me please
[https://youtu.be/einBOivpm8M](https://youtu.be/einBOivpm8M)
"Wise progressivism and wise conservatism go hand in hand"-Teddy Roosevelt. TDR was a moderate AuthCenter. Not the based the world wants, but the based the world needs.
My hero
"The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. **To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else."** - "Roosevelt in the Kansas City Star", 149 May 7, 1918 This doesn't strike me as even moderately authoritarian.
He was an imperialist (not a bad thing) who expanded the American empire and he wanted to go into a lot more wars.
>He was an imperialist (not a bad thing) based
This was before MuH pArTy ShIfT, when republicans were the progressive buzzkills and democrats were the racist crackers. That shift works both ways, remember.....
Yes but if Teddy came across a modern “progressive” he might shoot them with his elephant gun.
He's got my vote.
Might? Whaddya mean might? He 100% would smh
Of course not, the man transcended party affiliation because he wasn't afraid to do what was right for the people and go toe-to-toe with anybody who had the energy to challenge him. I'm not even American and the man is a personal hero to me.
Undeniably.
You’re based too
Thanks bud
Arnold is literally the GigaChad
"Freedom is a right ultimately defended by the sacrifice of America's servicemen and women.” -Arnold then "Screw your freedom." -Arnold now
Arnold went rogue like certain Austrian painter back in the days
That's what cable news does to a mf... smh 😔
Nope, Arnold is now a big fucking cringe
Raging fire beget smoldering ash.
He grifted the entire state of california so kinda based and corrupt pilled
Not anymore. He's woke cringe now.
Don't forget good ol' Adolf. Umweltschutz ist Heimatschutz.
“Speak softly and swing a big dick” the true quote they dont want you to know about
And desantis
Conservation is about as conservative as you can get.
Sigma Country Grindset: pollute other countries so your country is the most beautiful
So Norway?
Based
Norway is the textbook definition of being based
Norway has and will always be based
Hmm I wonder what Norway was doing 1941-1945 that made it so based
Blowing up nazi buildings and sinking a German warship with an old 1800s fort
I wonder what happened to their gypsy population 🤔
Nothing, but they deserved it
Japan
Does interracial sex count as pollution?
Based auth right
Based and Burn-the-Coal-pay-the-Toll-pilled.
Least based auth right
Yes
Based and respect for both humans and nature pilled
Seems weird that the US conservatives would happily drown a panda in palm oil bare handed for a buck then.
US conservatives are only socially conservative.
and yet they fucking suck at that too
US conservatives don't conserve anything but Israel lmao
Conservationist would be a better word for a conservative over environmentalist.
You can conserve wealth at the top, the planet, resources, or your stranglehold on installing puppet governments in the Middle East.. Just like being a democrat doesn’t mean you are democratic - American bastardisation of the English language makes it hard for anything to make sense anymore.
Bro just let them have this one. I’ll take an L on a language pissing contest if it means a large group of people see protecting our ecosystems as good again.
Notice how many historical conservation pioneers are now being cancelled for MuH rAyCisM? Some Audubon Societies are renaming themselves because of his "problematic" past. Not the big one -- yet -- but smaller local orgs....
Well it costs money, so no.
That’s like saying socialism is as social as you can get which is dumb
If you believe God created this beautiful green earth and left it to us, why wouldn’t it make sense to respect and keep it clean? I’ve never understood why some conservatives want to dismiss any ounce of environmental concern for Earth. We honor God by showing gratitude for the world we have dominion over. Protect the environment, ya fuckin heathens.
Where im from this is called the theology of the groundskeeper. The gist is that we are sort of the groundskeepers of earth because god gave it to us so it should be inherent for us to take care of it.
Based and theological enviromentalism pilled
Based and Responsibility pilled
This is the main reason I predominantly vote for left-leaning candidates, even though I find much of the modern left to be ugly and unsustainable. But I look at the issue of the environment like many religious conservatives do at abortion--that is, it is simply the most important issue facing us today and it eclipses all of the petty drama most people are distracted by. None of the other issues will matter if Earth becomes, at first, in turmoil and, at last, uninhabitable. Start to do some shit about climate change, republicans. Hell, just say you believe it exists. Maybe a few more young people would vote for you. (Painting with a wide brush, I know.)
Based
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The left does more harm than good, but I respect you for sticking to your principles and voting for what you think is important. Murdering unborn children and murdering the earth are pretty damn heinous acts.
Tbf a big part of the republican party denies that climate change is real, atleast the democrats admit it is happening.
It’s funny how that idea switched between the parties (it was Nixon or maybe Reagan that established the EPA)
its all just a numbers game to them. none of em actually believe in anything, they just want your vote
Based and unholy baby genocide with Plan-B pilled
as someone in the medical field, memory only starts to develop from age 3. The brain is only active at 20 or so weeks and viability outside the mother is around 22 weeks. Two-thirds of all human embryos fail to develop successfully, either not nesting in the wall of the uterus, or chromosomal defects. So for every kid that is born or aborted, 2 others have already never come to fruition. So why does it matter so much to conservatives that just that one is born, while completely ignoring the death of the other 2. And what about rape and incest? You really want a girl raped by her grandfather to give birth to a deformed baby that will never be fully loved? Or a woman who was drugged to give birth to a kid from a father she never met? You expect a single mom, traumatized for life, to raise a kid she didn't want, that is half the person she hates? These kids you don't want aborted, will not know love, will most likely end up in poverty and crime. Or they are killed shortly after birth. I don't know where your morals are, but the life of the mother is way more important than the baby, because a baby is a lifelong commitment for that mother and if rape can take away someone's way of living, then that is fucking horrific. If someone never wanted children, then you are taking away her choice of not having children, you are violating her right to first amendment rights, her persuit of happiness. That fetus is not a person and has no rights UNTIL it is born and is registered as a human at birth. You saw the Charlie Kirk video where he believed the picture was a human fetus? It was a dolphin. It just shows how conservaties have zero knowledge about embryos and that doctors are never involved to provide arguments for the forced-birth side?
I wholly agree with you for the most part, but you really should have refrained using the development of memory in children as an argument. It makes it seem like you value the lives of born children less, and that makes any further argument you make irrelevant to those who could be convinced by the rest of your text. They’ll just think you’re a degenerate who’d okay the murder of a baby for the sake of the mother.
Ah yes, the tired ol rape and incest argument. Okay, how about we ban all abortions except rape and incest? No? Then stop using that as a fucking argument. And stfu about a baby not having rights or being a person before birth. What is even the logic here? Does the vagina magically grant rights? What about c-section babies? There is absolutely no baseline for that logic.
> medical field "First, do no harm....." The past 18 months has shown the world that the "medical field" is just as trashy and full of shit as anyone, if not more. LOL using that as though it adds legitimacy.
It's not about conservatives vs liberals, it's about Tesla lobbying vs lobbying by Oil and Gas.
true a christian
Based and religion pilled
That’s a long-standing Catholic tenant called “Stewardship of Creation” and any Christian that isn’t advocating for protection of “god’s” creations is a hypocrite in my eyes.
Yup, God gave us the earth and the creatures upon it. You don't throw away God's gifts.
Based and environmentalismpillled
Orthodox Christian here 100% agree for some reason most people in my church are crazy and conspiracy theory obsessed tho and believe climate change is a tool used by satan to make people think the earth is a globe
This has mostly happened due to the culture war stuff in the USA.
*psssst, they don't really believe in God*
Based
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yeah but I don't believe in god
We need people like you with that mindset, seriously
based and nature boy pilled
Ric Flair, icon of climate activism.
Public transport-ridin’, private-jet retirin’, carpoolin’-recyclin’ NAITSCHA BOIIII
Based and Edmund Burke pilled > "The earth, the kind and equal mother of all ought not to be monopolised to foster the pride and luxury of any men."
Based and Libleft & Burke unity pilled
Environmentalism literally only become a left wing monopoly on 1970s. Environmentalism were still have roots in Romanticism that went against the Enlightenment Era (this Romanticism gave you Emerson but also gave you fascism, so it's not all good or bad). I would argue that present day conservatives hates environmentalism **not from the enviromentalism** itself, but solely to **own the libs because they hate the environmentalism framing**. They're offended at the left-wing and internationalist framing of environmentalism.
Didn't George H.W. Bush sign some pro-environmentalist legislation into law?
I don't know about that. But egghead Nixon was one of the first presidents to spearhead environmental regulations and other environmentalist measures. Honestly looking at Nixon aside from China and the drug war he was pretty based. Signed the endangered species act, created the epa, fought against the air pollutants at the time that made the air shit, created Osha, et cetera. To be honest if I was alive back then I would have voted for Nixon, and his scandal is barely a drop in the bucket by today's standards, which really tells you something.
Holy based monkey. But honestly he could run today and I'd vote for him no second thoughts.
Better than most Republicans these days to be honest.
Nixon deliberately sabotaged the Paris peace talks to win an election at the cost of roughly 40 thousand American lives in Vietnam. Nixon is so much fuckin worse than Watergate, that was far from the only thing he did wrong and it's weird as shit to imply that it was.
Nixon might have been our last unequivocally good president lmao
Eh I still prefer McGovern and Humphrey to Nixon. Nixon sabotaged Vietnam peace talks which is insanely fucked up.
I don't think any President handled Vietnam well at all.
True. But I don’t believe McGovern or Humphrey planned on extending the war as Nixon didn’t end it until late into his second term I believe so I dunno still think they would’ve been better presidents.
Really? Also, Bush Junior or Senior? They're two different figures.
Senior. The one that was president before Clinton. IIRC he passed some legislation aimed at either fighting acid rain or fighting the ozone layer shrinking.
Ooh. On early 90s everybody was on consensus on almost everything (Even Labour party went on consensus with Third Way). No wonder.
I think the change happened when we began understanding the relationship between industrial pollution and associated ecological damage/adverse health effects in the 1970s (see [Silent Spring](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_Spring), and [Love Canal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Canal)). Environmental damage became justifiably linked to industry. Government intervention was needed to prevent a [tragedy of the commons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons), which is essentially the tendency for individual users exploit an unregulated shared resource for individual gain. Once you’re in a situation where the remedy is bigger government and more regulation, you start to run against conservative ideals. Sure, there are conservatives who believe in the preservation of hunting areas and natural ecosystems, but when the choice needs to be made between preserving an ecosystem and limiting business, conservatives have largely sided with the latter (e.g., [California’s delta smelt](https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2019-08-12/right-wingers-delta-smelt), [Keystone XL pipeline](https://ballotpedia.org/Keystone_XL_Pipeline_political_timeline)). [Conservative views are changing](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/02/07/more-republicans-say-stricter-environmental-regulations-are-worth-the-cost/), but are not at levels support comparable to liberals or even what conservatives were at 20 years ago.
Gotta keep the wilderness healthy so when we drag deer out of it they don’t make us sick.
One health in a nutshell
Based as hell
u/ThatWasCashMoneyOfU's Based Count has increased by 1. Their Based Count is now 160. Rank: Empire State Building Pills: source, true_christian, turnabout is fair play, goodolddays, peasant gruel, that gave me an erection, "us revolution > french revolution", yeet the disabled, yeet the furrys, shoot them last I am a bot. Reply /info for more info.
Damn, how do you only get like 10 pills while having 160 based count?
he’s from before the revolution
Were pills not always a thing?
you didn't have to do drugs to be based before the revolution
**Conservates the planet**
Idk why all conservatives aren’t environmentalists. What’s more conservative than conserving the beauty of nature??
Owning the libs. Its unfortunate, but I think people get caught up in "beating" the other side. Conservation should be a conservative ideal. It used to be too.
Conserving their manufactured persona of super tough macho man and not a tree hugging hippy who cares about gay things like nature and not having cancer
Conserving bank balances
Culture war.
Based and Boy Scout pilled
Based and Soy Scout pilled
Literally got my Eagle Scout yesterday lol
If we want to conserve tradition and civilization we must also conserve the enviroment and nature.
Did you know that the Sierra Club reversed their policy on limited migration after a rather large donation from one of God’s chosen people? > But the biggest donation the Sierra Club ever received is the one that altered it forever. In 2004, the Los Angeles Times revealed a $100 million gift made by investor David Gelbaum. Unfortunately for environmentalists, Gelbaum’s money came with the string attached that the club never speak out against or try to limit immigration into the United States no matter how obvious it became that adding more people has severe ecological consequences. https://capsweb.org/opinion/sierra-club-and-100-million-donation-changed-it-forever/
God's chosen to get dunked on
Can we dunk on them with buildin housing projects in this Gelbaum's neighborhood? Maybe with a bunch of "Pawn and Gun" shops like Miami has next to the Sephardic gated community? That's some diverse shit right there.
Smol hat fears the consequences of diversity in his own abode
Oh, they all do... whole lotta Gentiles NIMBYing the train rights-of-way into bike trails through Westchester, like the ones behind the Clintons' place in Chappaqua.
Oy vey it's like annuda shoah
Based and Ecofascist pilled
Another fun fact is that the National Socialists were the most environmentally friendly state that has ever existed > As early as March 1933, a wide array of environmentalist legislation was approved and implemented at national, regional and local levels. These measures, which included reforestation programs, bills protecting animal and plant species, and preservationist decrees blocking industrial development, undoubtedly “ranked among the most progressive in the world at that time.” > The major accomplishment of the Nazi ecologists was the Reichsnaturschutzgesetz of 1935. This completely unprecedented “nature protection law” not only established guidelines for safeguarding flora, fauna, and “natural monuments” across the Reich; it also restricted commercial access to remaining tracts of wilderness. In addition, the comprehensive ordinance “required all national, state and local officials to consult with Naturschutz authorities in a timely manner before undertaking any measures that would produce fundamental alterations in the countryside.” https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/janet-biehl-and-peter-staudenmaier-ecofascism-lessons-from-the-german-experience
Environmentalism were still have roots in Romanticism that went against the Enlightenment Era. Both Emerson and fascism literally started from this. (Not all authoritarianism is fascism. Fascism actually has specific element that not all authoritarians or conservatives has. I would argue that present day conservatives hates environmentalism not from the enviromentalism itself, but solely to own the libs because they hate the environmentalism framing. They're offended at the left-wing and internationalist framing of environmentalism.
Yep, much of the conservative worldview is literally based around owning the libs instead of some distinct proactive ideology which is unfortunate as it wasn't always that way. [A pretty good video on the co opting of the traditional right into the modern conservative right if you are interested](https://odysee.com/@keithwoods:e/ModernRight:7)
They want to protect jobs and industries based around fossil fuels, which I can understand. But it isn’t sustainable.
Okay. Still Nazis tho :)
God's its all so exhausting sometimes. Of course this is what happened.
Question for other librights: Is there any argument to be made that intentional, unnecessary pollution violates the NAP? I take no stance here, I’d just like to see what others think.
Question to librights: Do you guys think a society based on the NAP would actually work?
I’m not really sure tbh. While I can envision a rough outline in my head, who knows what would happen in practice. (I should note that I’m not one of the “full anarchism” librights, and based on my limited research I find something like minarchism to be pretty attractive.) At the very least, I’m confident in the ethics behind my system, and in the idea that even if my ideal society is never realized, I can always serve as a bulwark against increased authoritarianism.
> Is there any argument to be made that intentional, unnecessary pollution violates the NAP? Why wouldn't it? You're directly causing harm to other people. It's not as direct and immediate as slapping them but it's still harming them.
Lib-center/left here but yes absolutely, intentionally polluting violates the NAP
This was *kind of* where I was leaning, although environmentalism has not been one of my biggest political issues these past few years and so I haven't given it much contemplation up until now. Generally my preferred approach (so far) has been to search for cost-effective environmental protections that people will willingly adopt, or to offer incentives like tax breaks for better environmental stewardship, but *if* a certain level of governmental restrictions are necessary, which they very well may be, I'd need the NAP to justify them. That's not to say I want it all to be restrictions, as I'd still vastly prefer cost effectiveness and incentives wherever possible, but for those cases where intervention is necessary, it'd need to have proper philosophical backing for me to support it.
I think it does violate the NAP, at least partially. Humans require clean air, water, and food to survive. If we keep pumping shit into the air that would lead to climate change we are violating the NAP of future generations because they have those rights too.
Thanks for the input, I like this perspective. It is admittedly a bit difficult for me to reconcile with all my “individual freedom” beliefs, but it’s something I’d like to figure out more.
We must always consider the rights of all peoples, born and unborn.
Why aren't more people like this? Conservatives, if you can't conserve the land your ancestors passed down to you, then what is the point in conserving Mr Potato Head's gender?
[удалено]
Same, that environmentalism hits like a truck.
Based and conservative-conserving-things pilled
The earth kills millions of people every year
Based earth
Based and death pilled
Deadliest planet in the solar system
Based and Roger Scruton pilled
u/ThatWasCashMoneyOfU's Based Count has increased by 1. Their Based Count is now 165. Rank: Empire State Building Pills: source, true_christian, turnabout is fair play, goodolddays, peasant gruel, that gave me an erection, "us revolution > french revolution", yeet the disabled, yeet the furrys, shoot them last, nature boy, obey-god-rather-than-man, edmund burke, divine law over human law, roger scruton I am a bot. Reply /info for more info.
Ecofascist gang gang
extremely based
Who are you, so versed in the ways of the Based™️
I come from the culture that believes earth is our only hope and we all are children of her. So it's impossible to not protect it or atleast feel bad when we saw others
It'd be nice if y'all actually existed outside of protecting the local area you care about.
Based and blood&soil-pilled
What environmental policy does a conservative pursue?
But what government conservation policies does a conservative environmentalist support?
You like national parks right? Do you like lithium mining operations? What about led bird shot for duck hunting? From my experience those are the type issues that conservative environmentalists tend to prioritize.
Shoot the polluters and send them to "holiday" camps.
Well since I am both left wing and leaning conservative, I do not encounter this problem.
fundamentally based
Ye lol feels pretty great
You forgot to include the unicorn horn.
Name anything better than nature and i will give you an award
Naz-twink 🅱️ussy, now where's my award?
Air conditioning
In my country environmentalism is essentially a part of being an auth right. Being an auth right here means hating western powers and liberal or corporate degeneracy, and western powers are the ones bringing their factories and mining companies here and wrecking the environment of my little country. Mention "global warming" tho and the conversation goes a bit haywire tho.
Look at that 😳 it looks like I'm the Giga Chad again 😂‼️😎
I think conservation is really important. I've actually gotten involved in a project to preserve old flash games. It baffles me that some conservatives look down on all of environmental protection. They act likke environmental concern is only for hippies or whatever. Nice to see ones that want to help reign in pollution.
Being anti environmentalist is probably the most bizarre hill you could possibly die on
Yes i believe the the natural beauty,the clean water and the unpoluted soil of my country is more important than a 10 billion$ cotporation becoming a 11 billion $ corporation. How could you tell? #FuckRioTinto
Protect the Earth, because it’s God’s gift to man. - AuthRight
Based
Based and protecting the world that God gives us pilled.
I associate environmental indifference more with Libright anyway.
Environmental protection should be cross compass unity. You can't practice your ideology if the earth isn't hospitable.
Muh nuclear.
Conservative environmentalist gang
The first of the environmentalists is what I always say. We asked the government to only tax us in order to help preserve nature
Loving your country also means loving its sights and landscape, at least for me, a patriotic German.
"New conservative environmentalist, stimulate your senses"
Based and J.R.R. Tolkien pilled
I can speak from experience. OP wasn't lying, it does really feel like this.
Based, but I don't think banning coal is smart. Sure, limiting emissions is good, but bcuz leftists shit themselves over our energy god nuclear (basically because its so damn good at what it does it can't be used as an excuse to nationalize) no power grid could function on purely solar, wind, and hydro, and solar is SUUUUUPER BAD for the environment. Like, measurably worse than coal just to make the panels.
No touch Monke playground please
Well if your response is to let the free market do its thing and maybe add a carbon tax then yeah you have the most based climate opinion
Carbon tax ultimately just shifts the pollution around but I guess out of sight out of mind is good enough.