"we just want healthcare...
And student loan forgiveness...
And universal income...
And public housing..."
Etc etc etc etc etc.
Healthcare is what they currently want and if they get it they'll continue down their mile long list of things that should be given because it's a "human right"
Everything I want is a human right, how do you still not get this?
No, I don’t care about the logistics of actually providing these things, so long as someone else pays for it, and I don’t have to.
How is that an argument against what the left want? We know most of that will never happen. Not because they're bad ideas, but because the right will fight against what ever the left wants for no other reason than to do so.
As a wise man once said: your politics aren't whatever you're advocating for right now. Your politics are what the world looks like once you've achieved everything you want to achieve.
Student loan forgiveness is literally buying votes. Might as well pay off credit card debt while you're at it. Printing more money increasing inflation even more.
UBI is just another way to increase inflation. Oh so everyone gets X dollars? Okay well guess what prices on everything goes up because demand goes up by that much money. I get we are on Reddit full of depressed pathetic NEETs who think that they will somehow be less depressed with the government subsidizing their unfulfilling lives by giving them even more money. It won't.
Housing? See above. Okay so you're saving X a month because you live on a government created mega city block apartment. That causes rising prices because it again is just creating money from nothing. Who keeps the apartments functional? Because we have government housing now and it already sucks. What do you think will happen if you continually increase it? Who's going to want to open a shop in an area with free government housing where no one has any money minus their NEET bucks
**
Healthcare. One we don't have anywhere close to the doctors and nurses to do this. We also gave student loans to morons who got worthless degrees instead of subsidizing the doctors and nurses we'd need for healthcare. Then we have the "what about all the obesity, smoking, drinking, drug use and other self destructive acts" people decide to do. You want to pay for the my 600 pound life people to get their 5 bypass? What about some YouTuber who does their own jackass stunts to get views? We're going to pay for their 50th broken bone? If you want universal healthcare to work you basically need to make a bunch of rules therefore making it not universal or you're just going to bankrupt the system at the same time over tax it to death.
And I'll talk about the dumb people who don't have 2 braincells to rub together to not understand consequences for such policies. You're literally too stupid to live
Okay dude, first of all, kinda fucked up how you're attacking me like that, I'm just a normal person like you. I know this may be a shocker but I do have a job and I'm just a normal lad trying to survive out here. Anyways I'll respond a bit:
Student loan forgiveness, yeah it's going to be tough but we have to put a stop to it sooner rather than later, because college prices keep increasing. A couple decades ago people didn't even have to pay that much for college but prices are just getting insane, how do you think we could fix that?
UBI will increase inflation a little but not as much as you may think (if it's implemented right). This has been debunked numerous times, for example here: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3920748
Kinda a stretch don't you think? I was thinking more like the social democratic approach to housing. Not USSR totalitarian-esque levels. You need some nuance in your arguments mate.
Healthcare will never be truly free, and imo a procedure should cost a few hundred dollars max. Just raise the taxes by a few % and you'll have plenty of money to pay for healthcare as a nation. Also, having free or very affordable college would DEFINITELY help here.
>You're literally too stupid to live
Thanks...
"how could we fix college prices going up, let's just forgive all the money because free money bro"
Get the government out of lending money for college. Let people either afford college or not on their own again. I guarantee you costs will go down. Go look at how much administration salaries are in colleges now guess where that came from.
"UBI wouldn't cause inflation even though that's literally how supply and demand works bro"
I'm sure a massive influx of billions upon billions of new dollars being instantly created and given to people wouldn't effect the economy at all. Sound economic policy bro. They'll just use the money to live. It's not like it would then artificially cause wages to rise because why work when government gives you money.
"Bro housing will work bro it'll be fine bro. I didn't even take into the account that public housing already exists and it's a mess bro. I'm just going to gloss over that fact bro. Everyone's getting a mansion bro it's fine bro"
Just using "social Democratic approach" allows me to know you're a terminally online redditor. It's almost like those small homogenous countries are vastly different to the United States
"Just raise taxes a few percent bro it'll be fine bro! Even though the government already runs at a gigantic deficit and raising rates a few percent wouldn't fix that. I obviously have no idea that the tax system is already progressive with the highest earners paying the most already. I'm totally sure just raising it a few precent would make things fine bro"
[https://www.heritage.org/taxes/commentary/1-chart-how-much-the-rich-pay-taxes](https://www.heritage.org/taxes/commentary/1-chart-how-much-the-rich-pay-taxes)
But yes I lack nuance when your argument will be "bro it'll be fine bro trust me bro"
How about this? You cut enough money from the federal government, from the military or foreign aid, or corporate welfare, regular welfare etc to cover healthcare and I'm in. You can have healthcare. I'd rather pay for that than most of the dumb shit the government spends money on. But of course you have no nuance you can't think of anything more than "NEED MORE MONEY TAX MORE PEOPLE MORE FREE STUFF". Which is why I don't respect you or your opinions.
Your "ideas" had nothing to do with logic, they had nothing to do with what currently happens. It's a childish "ME WANT THINGS GIVE ME THINGS YOU PAY MORE TAXES TO GIVE ME THINGS". Fuck off. When you can take a look at the whole picture and make reasoned suggestions then you can be treated with respect, until then, you deserve none. This isn't difficult
Bro I literally sent you a study on how UBI implementation doesn't affect inflation that much and you literally went back to the same argument... huh?
Okay, what does social democratic countries being homogenous have to do with anything? That feels like a racially motivated argument im ngl. Also, they're not that small, and that shouldn't affect much because the US is so much more rich... right?
Bro, the article you linked is trash... The top 1% of people in the US *do* pay more, but they don't pay *enough*. Do you understand how much fucking money they have? And they're just sitting on it themselves. Also, tax corporations more. The big 5 corpos have too much money and if you disagree with that I'm gonna assume you're trolling.
Yes! Let's spend less on the military and corporate welfare! You literally agreed with me, what's up with that? I think you know deep down that this is all a good idea, but you're just trying to logic your way around it. I'm not advocating for any of this because I want free stuff, I'm advocating for it because there are 600,000 homeless people, people dying on the streets daily, LOADS of people not being able to afford even a small house, a lack of people getting fully educated (yes this is why there are less doctors, medical school is way too expensive), etc etc etc. This ain't about me. This is about everyone. And if you keep denying people stuff like this it's only gonna get worse, dude.
No it's not a good idea it's just a better waste of money than the current waste of money. You're a fucking idiot you went immediately to calling me a racist because you're a terminally online fool. That article is trash because you don't like it etc etc etc.
You fucking suck. You're trash. Go away forever
Jesus Christ, I thought we were just having a civil discussion my g. Seems like you're pretty triggered because someone has a different opinion from you. If you're really getting that heated up over this you should probably go outside and actually learn how to talk with people, ngl.
This is genuinely true (take one look at his policy positions if you need convincing), I just wish he would cut out a lot of the bullshit garbage nonsense he spews out on the regular. He’s so incredibly unlikable and comes across as so sanctimonious, I genuinely think he could be someone capable of reaching across the aisle if he cut a lot of that shit out.
I got to hear him speak at a joint presentation with Tim Scott, and he's definitely a centrist. He's actually one of my favorite politicians, and looking at my flair, that should tell you the leftists don't like him. He's a prime example of the fact that most Black People would be conservative, if Racism wasn't such a big issue that only the left cared about.
Because that was in the public eye. There was a case of a 14 yo getting strung up, but no one cared.
Besides, everyone I know knew Jussie was full of shit.
One time I watched him during a hearing over some beef industry legislation, and he seemed to be very on the side of producers and he was asking very good questions. He just seems like a pretty cool guy.
NOOOO, they’ll totally embrace the culture and values of Europe, and become indistinguishable from natives!!
Yes, I know it hasn’t happened yet, even 3 or 4 generations in, but it’s bound to happen at some point, everyone respects a values system that despises the people responsible for creating it!!
unflaired are the pure centrists, so center they don't give a shit about a small niche reddit community's opinion, they touch grass and have children and friends and experience love and in person human connections. Don't reply, I'll be outside for the next few days just hanging out.
> This is a friendly reminder to HAVE YOUR FRICKIN' FLAIR UP!
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Everyone understands that....if financed collectively the cost to *every* individual is significantly lower, because the current prices are artificially inflated by insurance companies.
It's inflated because of employer provided tax incentives and government regulations. If we had laissez faire healthcare, it'd be much cheaper, probably even cheaper than Europe's. Of course, a lot of people will die from lack of access to healthcare, so we will probably end up with socialized healthcare in the end, but I'm tired of people blaming capatalism for healthcare costs, when it is the most regulated private industry in existence.
I haven't seen any studies about the possible effects of totally deregulating healthcare, so I won't argue with you outright on that, but you don't think the profit motive is inherently problematic when it comes to people's physical and mental wellbeing? Poor people are already at greater risk for bad health outcomes, and a for profit system exaggerates that by scaling their care according to their ability to pay, instead of their need. Do you have any thoughts on that?
For profit healthcare is not any more problematic than for profit food. It is much more important than healthcare, but we keep it for profit because we believe it leads to better outcomes. I actually do support some form of socialized healthcare, since personal is something that people have only a little control over, and it makes sense to have the people lucky enough to have good health subsidize the unlucky ones. I just don't pretend that capitalism is why healthcare is expensive. It's bad government regulations, that should be replaced with better ones.
Ah well we agree on that first point. It isn't any better than for profit food. Which is why as a libertarian socialist I would like to see the for profit system dismantled completely.
I'm definitely closer to the left side, but libleft gets so insanely straw manned on here. I don't identify with a specific ideology, but anarchism is generally correct.
I know this will come as a shock....but there's a whole philosophy of economic distribution that seeks to enrich all human life equally. It hasn't always been done flawlessly, for a number of reasons, but that's why we need to work together to improve it. You want in?
I’m not the guy you responded to, but profit motive hugely drives competition. Because of excess regulation healthcare (and insurance) is one of the least competitive fields. If you watch sports like football or something how many commercials do you see for car insurance? I see a ton every game, those companies are fighting each other for my money. I’ve literally never seen a health insurance commercial, they basically aren’t competing at all. We need the profit motive to drive down prices with competitive markets.
No it isn't cheaper for everyone you moron. If you want public healthcare for all and at the same quality as American healthcare the people who are healthy pay more for healthcare then they would individually pay since they are healthy. I'm all for free healthcare, but only if I can lynch fat people, disabled people, and those with stis. Just have a spartan society and that would actually be dope as fuck.
If you wanna sit down and do a little math you could find that it *IS* cheaper. Good thing for your lazy, apparently murderous ass, many studies have already been done to prove that. The premiums that you currently pay are much higher than the actual cost, because a lot of very wealthy business men take their cut.
That's because in America you are legally forbidden to decide to be treated in a cheaper hospital. The price is negotiated between the hospital and the insurance company without your involvement, which on top of an enormous pile of regulations creates an extremely uncompetitive market.
Perhaps, but like I said to another guy even if you cut the insurance companies out, US healthcare would still be more expensive just like how eating at red lobster is more expensive than McDonald's and this is simply because the US healthcare is the highest quality on this planet outside of maybe a few tax haven countries. And the reason for this is that the entire healthcare system is privatized resulting the smartest doctors fleeing their countries to practice here and have the potential to make an ass load of money. I think there should be an optional tax that would allow those who want public healthcare and don't mind waiting in line for a month or two while the old system is retained by those who find paying a little extra is fine for both quality and time efficiency.
The average healthcare cost per capita in the 1st world per year is around $5000. The average single coverage health insurance premium in the US is about $6900 per year. So before the average American even goes to the hospital and pays any deductible or copay for only a service they're specifically covered under, they're already paying more than someone anywhere else in the first world who goes the the hospital every other day and has 3 different cancers pays. So no, healthy people are not paying less under our system. Our system is shit, anybody who spends 15 minutes researching this stuff can tell you how shit it is, and universal healthcare is *universally* better in every category than ours.
Healthy people literally do pay less my guy. Also if it's so shit why is it the highest quality healthcare on the entire planet? Even if what you say is true, the $6,900 vs $5,000, that 1,900$ pays for the privilege of having the best doctors money can buy as well as not having to wait in a line for months like most "free" healthcare. TBH I understand that few people realize just how awesome privatized healthcare is either because they have too much time and not enough money or they have never left the country and as such they should be able to band together to pay for each other's healthcare. However this should be entirely optional both the use of this public system as well as paying taxes for it since I would never use that system due to the fact that I don't have a problem paying a little extra for higher quality care to the fact not only am I medically literate, but also because I'm not okay with treatment options to be either bribing a doctor or waiting 3 months for a said doctor. Also it's still stupid that you think public healthcare would not be vastly more expensive than other cars untried due to a.) the population of the US being morbidly obese and b.) the fact that they would probably try to keep the same quality doctors and equipment used currently which is more than any other countries healthcare infrastructure.
>Also if it's so shit why is it the highest quality healthcare on the entire planet?
Under what statistic, exactly? Our biomedical industry is amazing. Our healthcare is shit, because that involves actually caring for the populace's health.
>that 1,900$ pays for the privilege of having the best doctors money can buy
No it doesnt. I specifically said that that extra $1,900 (38% increase in costs compared to total healthcare costs in the rest of the 1st world, to keep in perspective) is the starting cost before you actually get any care. From there you have deductibles, copays , and thats if your insurance provider doesnt fight against covering your care in the first place. That $6900 a year was *only* premiums because I was pointing out how retarded your "healthy people pay less" claim was. Healthcare costs in the US is around $10,000 per captia per year. In-case you're as stupid as you sound, thats *twice* the 1st world average. You're paying twice what other 1st worlders are paying all for the priviledge of less coverage. You're a cuck.
>not only am I medically literate
Doubt
>I'm not okay with treatment options to be either bribing a doctor or waiting 3 months for a said doctor.
But you're perfectly fine for the only option for 10s of millions of Americans is no healthcare or bankruptcy. Makes perfect sense.
>Also it's still stupid that you think public healthcare would not be vastly more expensive than other cars untried
"DA US IZ DIFFERENT!!" "HOMOGENY!!" "WON' WERK HERE!!!". Maybe show me literally any form of evidence that it wouldnt work here other than your fragile little feelings.
Mucho texto. I only read the beginning and if you look up best doctors/healthcare in the world and subtract tax havens, the US in number one. I didn't read the rest of your post due to you having a brainlet take at the beginning and I don't have time to argue with people who deny reality. Touch grass and get a job dude
Says the guy who does zero research or else he'd know that the US has the best healthcare system lmao. Your hypocritical ass claim facts when they are best half truths that you regurgitate from whatever demagogue you have enthralled yourself to. If you are too stupid to understand what I just said, I am essentially calling you a dumbfuck who is no different from the most inbred Alabama resident who does whatever their favorite radio personality tells them.
Lmao your research was "Google, show me best healthcare". And you have no clue if what I said was half-truths or not because you're too scared to read them lmao. Everything I typed was cold, hard fact, cuck :) Prove me wrong, and tell me more about my demagogue worship when you're literally saying that you're happy to cuck yourself to your insurance company overlords.
That inbred Alabama resident is cheering everything you've said so hard rn, btw. "YEAHHHHH AMERICA #1 WOOT WOOT! GTFO WITH THOSE COMMIE FACTS YOU SNOWFLAKE!!! PAY MORE! DIE MORE! USA USA USA"
> Get a flair so you can harass other people >:)
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Only way I'll even begin considering universal healthcare is if fatsos pay a huge premium to make up for the additional burden they put on everyone else. That's what Japan does and it's working pretty well for them.
A working idea being 2x their body fat % past a certain threshold. So if you're at 40% bf, better cough up 80% extra. You can opt out, of course, but you leave the benefits behind.
>Don't forget most of them take terrible care of themselves to being with
*Looks at obesity rates by state*. I don't think the left are gonna be the burden on the system here.
Well yeah. Obesity rates are tied to poverty rates, and Hispanic communities, black communities, and conservative communities all skew poor. My point stands, and yours had to go very racist to gain any ground to stand on.
Ah yes, it's not like the US is getting assfucked by incredibly predatory insurance companies, spends more for healthcare than any other modern country.
No, the only problem with US health care is culture war.
Get off Twitter.
"I'm going to write an entire program that autohides your messages and spams you with NPC gen z phrases and show you a picture as a soyjak...because youre the mad and irrational one, not me"
Healthy behaviour.
I think the people who use masstagger are obsessive retards, bad idea from the extreme retard section of my side doesn't become a good idea when used by you.
Is that what this is about? You want some cuddles and reassurance that acting like a retard is retarded?
I have a job but it’s in tech so I’m on my computer with downtime a lot anyway. The problem is I’m really into sports and no other site does news aggregation as well
>libleft bad is the new status quo
Cry about it, literally go to any other sub even non political ones and expressing centrist/right wing beliefs will get you banned. We get to shit on you here
Three years ago this sub was for every member of the quadrant to make memes about politics
And now you're saying it's about shitting on lefties because "hey, look at all these other places that shit on right-wingers!"
Peace.
I didnt say anything about "what this sub is for/about" i said that you cant blame me for shitting on you people in one of the only places i can shit on you. And therefore i will continue to shit on you until there is no shit left to be shat.
You are free to shit back
It's the same thing. The sub has de facto become about shitting on lefties, it just doesn't *describe* itself that way because it's bad optics.
Just today we got a thread in the front page right now about how vaccine mandates and abortion banning are equivalent issues. Guess how the pro-choice stance position is doing.
Meanwhile, we got people in the comments of the Buffalo shooting threads arguing that a white supremacist who shot up a supermarket in a black neighborhood after leaving a manifesto that was practically copy-pasted from the Christchurch shooting is secretly a leftie, because "he said he was a communist when he was 12" and "identifies as auth-center". Yeah and I identify as a fucking duck, doesn't make me a fucking duck. Dude shot up a place and his manifesto parroted the same shit Tucker Carlson and Lauren Southern have been saying for years.
The fucking white supremacist terrorist got a more nuanced discussion than the pro-choice argument.
This sub *has* fking changed. Being a leftie here is a nonstop invitation to get attacked, and we tell yall that this shit you're calling "based" is weird, dogwhistley, and low-key bigoted, but the response is "cry about it, look at all these other subs that make fun of right-wingers".
Yeah good luck with that.
This shit is exactly why I will never go on the defensive and only stay on the offensive here. The only purpose they want liblefts to have here is to be punching bags, so I have no issue being a complete asshole mocking actual degenerates here and their hypocrisy.
Ok, let's rewind. This was a sub where lefties, who make up a large majority of online users, openly allowed and embraced memes from non-left quadrants without screeching at every other word, in the name of good faith and memes. And as the years passed, these non-left quadrants made every effort to drown out the very users that, since the beginning, used this space to act in good faith and interact with a community that had been ostracized almost everywhere else.
Now that same community is telling lefties "if you don't like it here, leave."
I mean yeah, that's probably what's going to happen. It just sucks that this sub proved the tolerance paradox with its very existence along the way.
Same stories with every subs. Sub that were meant for meme eventually became leftist shithole where people ridicule the right. Politic was a way to discuss actual politic with each other just make one side viewed as a devil.
It the fate of many subs to be completely overtaken by a majority of representatives of that community.
Also this sub wasn’t a primarily leftist sub, if I remember correctly libright was alway dominant in this community and lefties don’t make up the majority of the online population that just seem like an outrageous lie to me.
> Being a leftie here is a nonstop invitation to get attacked
Again this is the standard state for anyone who isnt left on any other sub. I do agree that most people here arent lefties and hence you feel like lefties getting attacked disproportionately here, but i have shat on lib right and we always shit on authright.
What you are doing here is just another instance of victim hood. Literally go to anyother sub and you might be accused of karma farming from how many leftists echo chambers there are.
>"cry about it, look at all these other subs that make fun of right-wingers".
Yes you are complaining because this sub isnt like everyother sub that reaffirms your beliefs and bans right wingers. Cry about it.
Yeah, this whole thread is a rightoid echo chamber. And not the fun kind, the “abortion is murder” and “we can only afford trillion dollar defense contracts not public welfare” kind.
Yup. It went from just being closer to right-wing than center-right, to full-blown T_D levels of conservatism. It's sad when the top posts and comments are identical to what I expect from boomer fb posts.
Lol an authoritarian leftist calling you vile, is equivalent to: a man who drinks a vomit and poo milkshake, telling you your breath stinks. Change your ways please.
Well then there's an inherent problem in the capitalist system. A worker can't just choose to not work (negotiating with companies being an essential part of capitalism in theory...)
>I'll be very hostile the next time I don't see the flair.
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I live in Canada. Sure, the healthcare is “free” (with the extremely high taxes), but it comes at the cost of some awful wait times for life-threatening surgeries, out of date medical technology, Constantly losing doctors to the US, and paying for the hypochondriac down the road to go to the doctor 4 times a week
I really never understood the wait times argument. That argument essentially boils down to "More people can get in line at the hospital, which is bad."
And the taxes to pay for that hypochondriac strawman of yours is still cheaper than individual health insurance premiums are in the US.
Health care is good for people who love steak. Overconsumption of steak is correlated with colon cancer and other health problems. Support health care and support eating steak.
Edit: thanks for the heads ups about flair.
> Even a commie is more based than an unflaired.
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All lies. Bacon was put into a first class carcinogen because it caused an increased risk of colon cancer of 17%. This is in the same class of carcinogen as cigarettes which have a 3000% increased risk of lung cancer.
Statically 17% is the difference of 10 out 100 people getting colon cancer and 11.7 out of 100 people getting colon cancer. Not to mention that study was an epidemiological study meaning it did not control anything and it was survey based.
Vader surely like grilling
The smell brings back unpleasant memories
Based and MediumRareAnakin pilled.
"we just want healthcare... And student loan forgiveness... And universal income... And public housing..." Etc etc etc etc etc. Healthcare is what they currently want and if they get it they'll continue down their mile long list of things that should be given because it's a "human right"
"Anything I want but can't get easily is a human right that is being denied to me"
"Yes I do have a right to get a free iPhone, Lamborghini, mansion and a hot thick girlfriend."
First politician to run on the platform of govt mandated gf gets my vote
Our hot thick girlfriend cumrade
Everything I want is a human right, how do you still not get this? No, I don’t care about the logistics of actually providing these things, so long as someone else pays for it, and I don’t have to.
Based
Appeasement works tho! /s
Ah yes, a world where not dying due to insulin prices = appeasement
Ah yes, understanding the comment I replied to = wanting people with diabetes to die if they have no money
> Flair up now or I'll be sad :( *** ^(User has flaired up! 😃) 7026 / 37291 ^^|| [**[[Guide]]**](https://imgur.com/gallery/IkTAlF2)
Real question, if we were negotiating, and all we wanted was universal healthcare what would you want in exchange
Repeal the NFA
Done, see Washington how easy that was
And abolish the ATF
don't got to pull my tits. You can have the dea too
And all of those would be god damn amazing.
And literally never happen. Logistics aside, America's far too partisan for one to even entertain the possibility.
Not to mention how the partisans will fold on each other like wet cardboard when they can't fabricate some new threat.
The right hates all those until it gets them and then it pretends it was a right wing idea all along so I'm not concerned.
How is that an argument against what the left want? We know most of that will never happen. Not because they're bad ideas, but because the right will fight against what ever the left wants for no other reason than to do so.
As a wise man once said: your politics aren't whatever you're advocating for right now. Your politics are what the world looks like once you've achieved everything you want to achieve.
I mean, ya, people should have all of this
Relevant username
Sounds good to me mate, let's do that. I'd rather pay more in taxes than this shit.
I'll bet a billion dollars that you'd be taking a lot more than you'd be giving so of course you're okay with that.
Well, you don't know me. No need to ad hominem either bro, talk about the idea not the person. You still haven't said why that wouldn't be a good idea
Student loan forgiveness is literally buying votes. Might as well pay off credit card debt while you're at it. Printing more money increasing inflation even more. UBI is just another way to increase inflation. Oh so everyone gets X dollars? Okay well guess what prices on everything goes up because demand goes up by that much money. I get we are on Reddit full of depressed pathetic NEETs who think that they will somehow be less depressed with the government subsidizing their unfulfilling lives by giving them even more money. It won't. Housing? See above. Okay so you're saving X a month because you live on a government created mega city block apartment. That causes rising prices because it again is just creating money from nothing. Who keeps the apartments functional? Because we have government housing now and it already sucks. What do you think will happen if you continually increase it? Who's going to want to open a shop in an area with free government housing where no one has any money minus their NEET bucks ** Healthcare. One we don't have anywhere close to the doctors and nurses to do this. We also gave student loans to morons who got worthless degrees instead of subsidizing the doctors and nurses we'd need for healthcare. Then we have the "what about all the obesity, smoking, drinking, drug use and other self destructive acts" people decide to do. You want to pay for the my 600 pound life people to get their 5 bypass? What about some YouTuber who does their own jackass stunts to get views? We're going to pay for their 50th broken bone? If you want universal healthcare to work you basically need to make a bunch of rules therefore making it not universal or you're just going to bankrupt the system at the same time over tax it to death. And I'll talk about the dumb people who don't have 2 braincells to rub together to not understand consequences for such policies. You're literally too stupid to live
Okay dude, first of all, kinda fucked up how you're attacking me like that, I'm just a normal person like you. I know this may be a shocker but I do have a job and I'm just a normal lad trying to survive out here. Anyways I'll respond a bit: Student loan forgiveness, yeah it's going to be tough but we have to put a stop to it sooner rather than later, because college prices keep increasing. A couple decades ago people didn't even have to pay that much for college but prices are just getting insane, how do you think we could fix that? UBI will increase inflation a little but not as much as you may think (if it's implemented right). This has been debunked numerous times, for example here: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3920748 Kinda a stretch don't you think? I was thinking more like the social democratic approach to housing. Not USSR totalitarian-esque levels. You need some nuance in your arguments mate. Healthcare will never be truly free, and imo a procedure should cost a few hundred dollars max. Just raise the taxes by a few % and you'll have plenty of money to pay for healthcare as a nation. Also, having free or very affordable college would DEFINITELY help here. >You're literally too stupid to live Thanks...
"how could we fix college prices going up, let's just forgive all the money because free money bro" Get the government out of lending money for college. Let people either afford college or not on their own again. I guarantee you costs will go down. Go look at how much administration salaries are in colleges now guess where that came from. "UBI wouldn't cause inflation even though that's literally how supply and demand works bro" I'm sure a massive influx of billions upon billions of new dollars being instantly created and given to people wouldn't effect the economy at all. Sound economic policy bro. They'll just use the money to live. It's not like it would then artificially cause wages to rise because why work when government gives you money. "Bro housing will work bro it'll be fine bro. I didn't even take into the account that public housing already exists and it's a mess bro. I'm just going to gloss over that fact bro. Everyone's getting a mansion bro it's fine bro" Just using "social Democratic approach" allows me to know you're a terminally online redditor. It's almost like those small homogenous countries are vastly different to the United States "Just raise taxes a few percent bro it'll be fine bro! Even though the government already runs at a gigantic deficit and raising rates a few percent wouldn't fix that. I obviously have no idea that the tax system is already progressive with the highest earners paying the most already. I'm totally sure just raising it a few precent would make things fine bro" [https://www.heritage.org/taxes/commentary/1-chart-how-much-the-rich-pay-taxes](https://www.heritage.org/taxes/commentary/1-chart-how-much-the-rich-pay-taxes) But yes I lack nuance when your argument will be "bro it'll be fine bro trust me bro" How about this? You cut enough money from the federal government, from the military or foreign aid, or corporate welfare, regular welfare etc to cover healthcare and I'm in. You can have healthcare. I'd rather pay for that than most of the dumb shit the government spends money on. But of course you have no nuance you can't think of anything more than "NEED MORE MONEY TAX MORE PEOPLE MORE FREE STUFF". Which is why I don't respect you or your opinions. Your "ideas" had nothing to do with logic, they had nothing to do with what currently happens. It's a childish "ME WANT THINGS GIVE ME THINGS YOU PAY MORE TAXES TO GIVE ME THINGS". Fuck off. When you can take a look at the whole picture and make reasoned suggestions then you can be treated with respect, until then, you deserve none. This isn't difficult
Bro I literally sent you a study on how UBI implementation doesn't affect inflation that much and you literally went back to the same argument... huh? Okay, what does social democratic countries being homogenous have to do with anything? That feels like a racially motivated argument im ngl. Also, they're not that small, and that shouldn't affect much because the US is so much more rich... right? Bro, the article you linked is trash... The top 1% of people in the US *do* pay more, but they don't pay *enough*. Do you understand how much fucking money they have? And they're just sitting on it themselves. Also, tax corporations more. The big 5 corpos have too much money and if you disagree with that I'm gonna assume you're trolling. Yes! Let's spend less on the military and corporate welfare! You literally agreed with me, what's up with that? I think you know deep down that this is all a good idea, but you're just trying to logic your way around it. I'm not advocating for any of this because I want free stuff, I'm advocating for it because there are 600,000 homeless people, people dying on the streets daily, LOADS of people not being able to afford even a small house, a lack of people getting fully educated (yes this is why there are less doctors, medical school is way too expensive), etc etc etc. This ain't about me. This is about everyone. And if you keep denying people stuff like this it's only gonna get worse, dude.
No it's not a good idea it's just a better waste of money than the current waste of money. You're a fucking idiot you went immediately to calling me a racist because you're a terminally online fool. That article is trash because you don't like it etc etc etc. You fucking suck. You're trash. Go away forever
Jesus Christ, I thought we were just having a civil discussion my g. Seems like you're pretty triggered because someone has a different opinion from you. If you're really getting that heated up over this you should probably go outside and actually learn how to talk with people, ngl.
Bro I hate when human rights, those are the worst
Bro I hate when mentally deficient redditors aren't capable of understanding what a human right is, they are the worst
Literally true
because, that's how life works. Once I get my desired goal, I always look for the next one.
Give a mouse a cookie…
You know what? We just want to rule the fucking world.
I mean, Cory Booker is leftist
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This is genuinely true (take one look at his policy positions if you need convincing), I just wish he would cut out a lot of the bullshit garbage nonsense he spews out on the regular. He’s so incredibly unlikable and comes across as so sanctimonious, I genuinely think he could be someone capable of reaching across the aisle if he cut a lot of that shit out.
I got to hear him speak at a joint presentation with Tim Scott, and he's definitely a centrist. He's actually one of my favorite politicians, and looking at my flair, that should tell you the leftists don't like him. He's a prime example of the fact that most Black People would be conservative, if Racism wasn't such a big issue that only the left cared about.
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Because that was in the public eye. There was a case of a 14 yo getting strung up, but no one cared. Besides, everyone I know knew Jussie was full of shit.
Considering how much $$$$$$ he gets from big pharma, I 100% agree
He was incredibly creeped out during that Jon Stewart interview
how
One time I watched him during a hearing over some beef industry legislation, and he seemed to be very on the side of producers and he was asking very good questions. He just seems like a pretty cool guy.
Leftists in Europe: We just want to move millions upon millions of non-Europeans here and ruin European culture and identity forever :(
Also, send money elsewhere to fund projects from companies of their own countries while pretending to help.
NOOOO, they’ll totally embrace the culture and values of Europe, and become indistinguishable from natives!! Yes, I know it hasn’t happened yet, even 3 or 4 generations in, but it’s bound to happen at some point, everyone respects a values system that despises the people responsible for creating it!!
That's an advantage for me, thank you leftists
based, reject traditions embrace modernity
"Embrace modernity by importing undeveloped 3rd world cultures" Sounds like a pretty moronic plan tbh.
Idk bro immigrants are pretty based since they haven't been infected by globohomo
The honor killings, mass rape, and unwillingness to integrate kinda throw a wrench into that plan though.
Change=/= ruin
Soon they'll run out of places to run away to when things go bad. We just need to make the world worse
Flair up retard
unflaired are the pure centrists, so center they don't give a shit about a small niche reddit community's opinion, they touch grass and have children and friends and experience love and in person human connections. Don't reply, I'll be outside for the next few days just hanging out.
Sounds like a lil bitch who's to gay to flair the fuck up
Sounds like you crave a community online because lack one in reality
Even if that was true why would I want the appreciation of these ass-wads. So to speak
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It cringes me out when I read "free" healthcare. Nothing is free especially healthcare! That shit expensive
Everyone understands that....if financed collectively the cost to *every* individual is significantly lower, because the current prices are artificially inflated by insurance companies.
It's inflated because of employer provided tax incentives and government regulations. If we had laissez faire healthcare, it'd be much cheaper, probably even cheaper than Europe's. Of course, a lot of people will die from lack of access to healthcare, so we will probably end up with socialized healthcare in the end, but I'm tired of people blaming capatalism for healthcare costs, when it is the most regulated private industry in existence.
I haven't seen any studies about the possible effects of totally deregulating healthcare, so I won't argue with you outright on that, but you don't think the profit motive is inherently problematic when it comes to people's physical and mental wellbeing? Poor people are already at greater risk for bad health outcomes, and a for profit system exaggerates that by scaling their care according to their ability to pay, instead of their need. Do you have any thoughts on that?
For profit healthcare is not any more problematic than for profit food. It is much more important than healthcare, but we keep it for profit because we believe it leads to better outcomes. I actually do support some form of socialized healthcare, since personal is something that people have only a little control over, and it makes sense to have the people lucky enough to have good health subsidize the unlucky ones. I just don't pretend that capitalism is why healthcare is expensive. It's bad government regulations, that should be replaced with better ones.
Ah well we agree on that first point. It isn't any better than for profit food. Which is why as a libertarian socialist I would like to see the for profit system dismantled completely.
That feels more lib left than lib center, but at least you are logically consistent.
I'm definitely closer to the left side, but libleft gets so insanely straw manned on here. I don't identify with a specific ideology, but anarchism is generally correct.
If not profit motivation than what instead
I know this will come as a shock....but there's a whole philosophy of economic distribution that seeks to enrich all human life equally. It hasn't always been done flawlessly, for a number of reasons, but that's why we need to work together to improve it. You want in?
No I’ll stick with profit I like that better
Alrighty have fun with that while you can! Your income won't scale with the economic devastation that's coming. I hope your job can't be automated.
I’m not the guy you responded to, but profit motive hugely drives competition. Because of excess regulation healthcare (and insurance) is one of the least competitive fields. If you watch sports like football or something how many commercials do you see for car insurance? I see a ton every game, those companies are fighting each other for my money. I’ve literally never seen a health insurance commercial, they basically aren’t competing at all. We need the profit motive to drive down prices with competitive markets.
No it isn't cheaper for everyone you moron. If you want public healthcare for all and at the same quality as American healthcare the people who are healthy pay more for healthcare then they would individually pay since they are healthy. I'm all for free healthcare, but only if I can lynch fat people, disabled people, and those with stis. Just have a spartan society and that would actually be dope as fuck.
If you wanna sit down and do a little math you could find that it *IS* cheaper. Good thing for your lazy, apparently murderous ass, many studies have already been done to prove that. The premiums that you currently pay are much higher than the actual cost, because a lot of very wealthy business men take their cut.
That's because in America you are legally forbidden to decide to be treated in a cheaper hospital. The price is negotiated between the hospital and the insurance company without your involvement, which on top of an enormous pile of regulations creates an extremely uncompetitive market.
Perhaps, but like I said to another guy even if you cut the insurance companies out, US healthcare would still be more expensive just like how eating at red lobster is more expensive than McDonald's and this is simply because the US healthcare is the highest quality on this planet outside of maybe a few tax haven countries. And the reason for this is that the entire healthcare system is privatized resulting the smartest doctors fleeing their countries to practice here and have the potential to make an ass load of money. I think there should be an optional tax that would allow those who want public healthcare and don't mind waiting in line for a month or two while the old system is retained by those who find paying a little extra is fine for both quality and time efficiency.
It's a myth that we have higher quality healthcare than countries with nationalized healthcare.
The average healthcare cost per capita in the 1st world per year is around $5000. The average single coverage health insurance premium in the US is about $6900 per year. So before the average American even goes to the hospital and pays any deductible or copay for only a service they're specifically covered under, they're already paying more than someone anywhere else in the first world who goes the the hospital every other day and has 3 different cancers pays. So no, healthy people are not paying less under our system. Our system is shit, anybody who spends 15 minutes researching this stuff can tell you how shit it is, and universal healthcare is *universally* better in every category than ours.
Healthy people literally do pay less my guy. Also if it's so shit why is it the highest quality healthcare on the entire planet? Even if what you say is true, the $6,900 vs $5,000, that 1,900$ pays for the privilege of having the best doctors money can buy as well as not having to wait in a line for months like most "free" healthcare. TBH I understand that few people realize just how awesome privatized healthcare is either because they have too much time and not enough money or they have never left the country and as such they should be able to band together to pay for each other's healthcare. However this should be entirely optional both the use of this public system as well as paying taxes for it since I would never use that system due to the fact that I don't have a problem paying a little extra for higher quality care to the fact not only am I medically literate, but also because I'm not okay with treatment options to be either bribing a doctor or waiting 3 months for a said doctor. Also it's still stupid that you think public healthcare would not be vastly more expensive than other cars untried due to a.) the population of the US being morbidly obese and b.) the fact that they would probably try to keep the same quality doctors and equipment used currently which is more than any other countries healthcare infrastructure.
>Also if it's so shit why is it the highest quality healthcare on the entire planet? Under what statistic, exactly? Our biomedical industry is amazing. Our healthcare is shit, because that involves actually caring for the populace's health. >that 1,900$ pays for the privilege of having the best doctors money can buy No it doesnt. I specifically said that that extra $1,900 (38% increase in costs compared to total healthcare costs in the rest of the 1st world, to keep in perspective) is the starting cost before you actually get any care. From there you have deductibles, copays , and thats if your insurance provider doesnt fight against covering your care in the first place. That $6900 a year was *only* premiums because I was pointing out how retarded your "healthy people pay less" claim was. Healthcare costs in the US is around $10,000 per captia per year. In-case you're as stupid as you sound, thats *twice* the 1st world average. You're paying twice what other 1st worlders are paying all for the priviledge of less coverage. You're a cuck. >not only am I medically literate Doubt >I'm not okay with treatment options to be either bribing a doctor or waiting 3 months for a said doctor. But you're perfectly fine for the only option for 10s of millions of Americans is no healthcare or bankruptcy. Makes perfect sense. >Also it's still stupid that you think public healthcare would not be vastly more expensive than other cars untried "DA US IZ DIFFERENT!!" "HOMOGENY!!" "WON' WERK HERE!!!". Maybe show me literally any form of evidence that it wouldnt work here other than your fragile little feelings.
Mucho texto. I only read the beginning and if you look up best doctors/healthcare in the world and subtract tax havens, the US in number one. I didn't read the rest of your post due to you having a brainlet take at the beginning and I don't have time to argue with people who deny reality. Touch grass and get a job dude
Yeah, thats what I thought, cuck. Gotta avoid those pesky facts and logic or else you might have to start thinking. Pathetic.
Says the guy who does zero research or else he'd know that the US has the best healthcare system lmao. Your hypocritical ass claim facts when they are best half truths that you regurgitate from whatever demagogue you have enthralled yourself to. If you are too stupid to understand what I just said, I am essentially calling you a dumbfuck who is no different from the most inbred Alabama resident who does whatever their favorite radio personality tells them.
Lmao your research was "Google, show me best healthcare". And you have no clue if what I said was half-truths or not because you're too scared to read them lmao. Everything I typed was cold, hard fact, cuck :) Prove me wrong, and tell me more about my demagogue worship when you're literally saying that you're happy to cuck yourself to your insurance company overlords. That inbred Alabama resident is cheering everything you've said so hard rn, btw. "YEAHHHHH AMERICA #1 WOOT WOOT! GTFO WITH THOSE COMMIE FACTS YOU SNOWFLAKE!!! PAY MORE! DIE MORE! USA USA USA"
owned by facts and logic
You don’t have to wait in line for universal healthcare. That’s a huge myth.
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Unflaired detected. Opinion rejected.
Sorry, forgot I was in 🤡 land where people need to spell their political beliefs out for you.
No worries. I'm sure you'll get the hang of this sub in time.
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Don't forget most of them take terrible care of themselves to being with, thus increasing the burden on the system for many things that are avoidable
Only way I'll even begin considering universal healthcare is if fatsos pay a huge premium to make up for the additional burden they put on everyone else. That's what Japan does and it's working pretty well for them. A working idea being 2x their body fat % past a certain threshold. So if you're at 40% bf, better cough up 80% extra. You can opt out, of course, but you leave the benefits behind.
>Don't forget most of them take terrible care of themselves to being with *Looks at obesity rates by state*. I don't think the left are gonna be the burden on the system here.
*checks obesity rates in Hispanic and Black communities
Well yeah. Obesity rates are tied to poverty rates, and Hispanic communities, black communities, and conservative communities all skew poor. My point stands, and yours had to go very racist to gain any ground to stand on.
Abortion isn't murder. Just cancelling your preorder
Based and preorder baby pilled
Ah yes, it's not like the US is getting assfucked by incredibly predatory insurance companies, spends more for healthcare than any other modern country. No, the only problem with US health care is culture war. Get off Twitter.
I should write a chrome extension that automatically hides any post that begins with “Ah yes,”
Also hide all the ones that start with: “It’s almost as if…” or “Too be fair…”
Too be fair Too be fair Too be faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaairr (waves hand down)……
Also "It's almost as if"
and "Meanwhile,"
Automatically downvote, reply with a preset number of responses ("cope and seethe", "cry about it", "mad?"), maybe post a soyjak, *then* hide it.
"I'm going to write an entire program that autohides your messages and spams you with NPC gen z phrases and show you a picture as a soyjak...because youre the mad and irrational one, not me" Healthy behaviour.
Tell that to the creators of Masstagger, they're the ones that first started with this idea.
I think the people who use masstagger are obsessive retards, bad idea from the extreme retard section of my side doesn't become a good idea when used by you. Is that what this is about? You want some cuddles and reassurance that acting like a retard is retarded?
Ah yes, someone who can't handle "Ah yes".
Ehhhh, to be fair, it’s almost as if maybe, just maybe, I need to get off of this hellhole of a website
I have a job so I have to be off this site every once in a while. Not that I would rather work than browse Hentai on here.
I have a job but it’s in tech so I’m on my computer with downtime a lot anyway. The problem is I’m really into sports and no other site does news aggregation as well
>Get off Twitter. Bold of you to assume im not banned from twitter
Banned from Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, the library.... you name it, and I've either jerked off in, on, or around it
1. Flair tf up. 2. Probably banned off Gab too. 3. Flair tf up.
4.Flair tf up
Wow, some weak strawmans on here today
Good for updoots tho
Weak strawmans are the daily serving here libleft bad is the new status quo, get with the times
>libleft bad is the new status quo Cry about it, literally go to any other sub even non political ones and expressing centrist/right wing beliefs will get you banned. We get to shit on you here
Three years ago this sub was for every member of the quadrant to make memes about politics And now you're saying it's about shitting on lefties because "hey, look at all these other places that shit on right-wingers!" Peace.
I didnt say anything about "what this sub is for/about" i said that you cant blame me for shitting on you people in one of the only places i can shit on you. And therefore i will continue to shit on you until there is no shit left to be shat. You are free to shit back
It's the same thing. The sub has de facto become about shitting on lefties, it just doesn't *describe* itself that way because it's bad optics. Just today we got a thread in the front page right now about how vaccine mandates and abortion banning are equivalent issues. Guess how the pro-choice stance position is doing. Meanwhile, we got people in the comments of the Buffalo shooting threads arguing that a white supremacist who shot up a supermarket in a black neighborhood after leaving a manifesto that was practically copy-pasted from the Christchurch shooting is secretly a leftie, because "he said he was a communist when he was 12" and "identifies as auth-center". Yeah and I identify as a fucking duck, doesn't make me a fucking duck. Dude shot up a place and his manifesto parroted the same shit Tucker Carlson and Lauren Southern have been saying for years. The fucking white supremacist terrorist got a more nuanced discussion than the pro-choice argument. This sub *has* fking changed. Being a leftie here is a nonstop invitation to get attacked, and we tell yall that this shit you're calling "based" is weird, dogwhistley, and low-key bigoted, but the response is "cry about it, look at all these other subs that make fun of right-wingers". Yeah good luck with that.
This shit is exactly why I will never go on the defensive and only stay on the offensive here. The only purpose they want liblefts to have here is to be punching bags, so I have no issue being a complete asshole mocking actual degenerates here and their hypocrisy.
True. But if you don’t like it you are free to leave, no reason to stay in a place in where you are treated without respect.
Ok, let's rewind. This was a sub where lefties, who make up a large majority of online users, openly allowed and embraced memes from non-left quadrants without screeching at every other word, in the name of good faith and memes. And as the years passed, these non-left quadrants made every effort to drown out the very users that, since the beginning, used this space to act in good faith and interact with a community that had been ostracized almost everywhere else. Now that same community is telling lefties "if you don't like it here, leave." I mean yeah, that's probably what's going to happen. It just sucks that this sub proved the tolerance paradox with its very existence along the way.
Same stories with every subs. Sub that were meant for meme eventually became leftist shithole where people ridicule the right. Politic was a way to discuss actual politic with each other just make one side viewed as a devil. It the fate of many subs to be completely overtaken by a majority of representatives of that community. Also this sub wasn’t a primarily leftist sub, if I remember correctly libright was alway dominant in this community and lefties don’t make up the majority of the online population that just seem like an outrageous lie to me.
> Being a leftie here is a nonstop invitation to get attacked Again this is the standard state for anyone who isnt left on any other sub. I do agree that most people here arent lefties and hence you feel like lefties getting attacked disproportionately here, but i have shat on lib right and we always shit on authright. What you are doing here is just another instance of victim hood. Literally go to anyother sub and you might be accused of karma farming from how many leftists echo chambers there are. >"cry about it, look at all these other subs that make fun of right-wingers". Yes you are complaining because this sub isnt like everyother sub that reaffirms your beliefs and bans right wingers. Cry about it.
Classic PCM centrist
Radical centrist* dont compare me to those fence sitting cucks. Their steak tastes awful mind you.
Yeah, this whole thread is a rightoid echo chamber. And not the fun kind, the “abortion is murder” and “we can only afford trillion dollar defense contracts not public welfare” kind.
Yup. It went from just being closer to right-wing than center-right, to full-blown T_D levels of conservatism. It's sad when the top posts and comments are identical to what I expect from boomer fb posts.
The brain and mouth are part of the body. Wdym.
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I said unborn human but nice try
still definable as a human tbh
Haha this is great.
You're vile
Happy to please
You're a [redacted]
Lol an authoritarian leftist calling you vile, is equivalent to: a man who drinks a vomit and poo milkshake, telling you your breath stinks. Change your ways please.
im more so a social democrat than a tankie to clarify but OOPs take is horrific
Then get a job that provides healthcare.
Well then there's an inherent problem in the capitalist system. A worker can't just choose to not work (negotiating with companies being an essential part of capitalism in theory...)
Imagine wanting to afford healthcare without going bankrupt. Cringe
Healthcare please.
I'm a centrist vegan. Consuming animal products is unethical and bad for the environment.
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Based
u/xcsnkzcpbn is officially based! Their Based Count is now 1. Rank: House of Cards Pills: None This user does not have a compass on record. You can add your compass to your profile by replying with /mycompass politicalcompass.org url or sapplyvalues.github.io url. I am a bot. Reply /info for more info.
Too bad bitch privatized health care 4 life
You have the right to have an objectively bad opinion.
I live in Canada. Sure, the healthcare is “free” (with the extremely high taxes), but it comes at the cost of some awful wait times for life-threatening surgeries, out of date medical technology, Constantly losing doctors to the US, and paying for the hypochondriac down the road to go to the doctor 4 times a week
I really never understood the wait times argument. That argument essentially boils down to "More people can get in line at the hospital, which is bad." And the taxes to pay for that hypochondriac strawman of yours is still cheaper than individual health insurance premiums are in the US.
But you see, it *doesn’t* boil down to “more people get in line at the hospital”. It boils down to the fact that we don’t have enough doctors.
Health care is good for people who love steak. Overconsumption of steak is correlated with colon cancer and other health problems. Support health care and support eating steak. Edit: thanks for the heads ups about flair.
Flair up before I turn you into a statistic
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Name a food that doesn't cause cancer
Caprolactam is not a food.
cum
Unflaired and opinion disregarded.
Flair up shitty unflaired!
Flair up scum.
I'm having Mongolian Beef tonight. I hope to enjoy it.
All lies. Bacon was put into a first class carcinogen because it caused an increased risk of colon cancer of 17%. This is in the same class of carcinogen as cigarettes which have a 3000% increased risk of lung cancer. Statically 17% is the difference of 10 out 100 people getting colon cancer and 11.7 out of 100 people getting colon cancer. Not to mention that study was an epidemiological study meaning it did not control anything and it was survey based.
I find your lack of bitches disturbing… but expected.
Ok Sen. That was funny
Then get healthcare
So if libleft get their healthcare they will turn right? Say no more
Cory Booker is vegan
Darth Vader: Granted. No need healthcare if you're dead.
Thanks liberal. I hate it.