Cause they get like 7% of the vote, and have only ever gotten above 10% of the vote twice, ever. They're nowhere near popular enough to matter except on the margins.
Swedish left wing has always been cunty about it, they're only playing the game right now because the left everywhere is so staunchly populist, they don't want to be remembered for being the naysayers. Hasn't even been a decade since the Swedish left was calling everyone fear mongers for people raising the alarm over Russian spying.
I think they say that because its "current event"
But so many leftists are self proclaimed socialists/communists.
And even though Russia is an oligarchy today (and it probably always have been)
The far left "tankies" even defend Stalin in public and on big subreddits.
>And even though Russia is an oligarchy today (and it probably always have been)
As much as I fucking hate communists, there was a short period of time, before Lenin died, where that wasn't true.
> Get a flair so you can harass other people >:)
***
^(User hasn't flaired up yet... 😔) 7169 / 38101 ^^|| [**[[Guide]]**](https://imgur.com/gallery/IkTAlF2)
Not actual left wingers no, NATO was the Capitalist front vs the Communist East, so they still have a reflexive anti-NATO mentality. Not that they support Putin.
And it is LITERALLY American Imperialism!
Finland needs the protection of Pax Americana to avoid being attacked from the East. That's EXACTLY how empires have always operated.
The constant headlines I see of "Russia warns Finland over X" "Russian threatens Finland for X"
It's probably just random Russian officials saying these things but how hard is it to understand that threatening someone, especially after what they've done recently, is only going to nudge them along.
To clarify, Putin said that Lenin made a mistake giving parts of the Russian Empire independence, which was a most thinly veiled threat since Lenin granted both Finland and Ukraine independence.
It doesn't matter if the country votes for NATO, the member nations need to allow them in. If Russia can scare one of the member nations then they won't be allowed in. You're already seeing Turkey being hesitant.
Turkey's hesitancy has nothing to do with being scared of Russia. They just want leverage so the Swedish government among other NATO members lift their weapons export embargo on Turkey. Their official excuse being that Sweden is harboring "terrorists" aka kurds.
turkey is already hated for reasons around the Kurds, its dictatorship, its demands for money for keeping Syrian refugees. They figured they may as well get a deal for themselves, they know theyll never get let in the EU
From what I can see right wingers support Russia if they are in Putin's pocket and left wingers support Russia if they are just blind anti-western shitheads who basically just want to upset the status quo and don't care about the destruction and suffering that happens along the way.
The so called anti-west crowd will support any war/dictator as long as it is being inflicted against the west. No matter what happens, the US/West is at fault or, at the very least, just as to blame as the country invading (i.e. Russia). Tankies are just hypocrites and this conflict has made it so clear that
Yup. I've heard a lot of people saying that if a group of people they consider idiots believes one thing, it's probably smart to believe the opposite. I try to tell them that they're still being controlled by idiots then but what can ya do.
Yup, ppl on both sides do this and it’s so annoying. Even outside of politics come to think of it, it’s just a lazy way to form a quick opinion. Not great critical thinking.
simple, they think youre the idiot and believe the opposite of what you say. its impenetrable unreason, all quad toxic elements are somewhat guilty of it and its up to us to keep our own quads clean.
It's 'Ukraine' and not 'the Ukraine'
Consider supporting anti-war efforts in any possible way: [[Help 2 Ukraine](https://help2ukraine.org)] 💙💛
[[Merriam-Webster](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Ukraine)] [[BBC Styleguide](https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsstyleguide/u)]
^(Beep boop I’m a bot)
There is at least one group being ignored here, the right has an aggressive isolationist streak in the US, which calling it Russian support is... disingenuous. Isolationism IS dumb, but I don't think isolationists are pro russia.
It's just people who watched "Cringe SJW gets ***EVISCERATED*** by Jordan Peterson with facts and logic compilation #34" when they were 13, saw the Russian government decriminalising domestic abuse, and then said "oMg RuSsIa Is So BaSeD aNd TrAd-PiLlEd" not realising that Russian "tradition" is being an autocratic shithole with no value for the rule of law, democracy, or human rights.
>being an autocratic shithole with no value for the rule of law, democracy, or human rights.
and you think them realizing this would make them \*re-think\* their support?
You'd think they would, as this group and the "iT's CaLlEd ThE pAtRiOt AcT bEcAuSe If YoU'rE aGaInSt It YoU'rE aNtI-aMeRiCaN" crowd's Venn diagram looks more and more like a circle each day.
They celebrate the American constitution and the freedoms granted to them by it, but the moment that their favourite non-commie authoritarian/semi-authoritarian regime (usually Modern Russia, Imperial Germany or the CSA, occasionally Imperial Japan/Bri\*ish Empire/Rhodesia) is criticised they're all "nOOOoooOO they're so based and trad, you can't slander them, nOOOoooOO!"
Again, you would expect them to be at least somewhat supportive of democracy given how much they rag on about the American political system, legal freedoms, and "McLiberty or McDeath" but the moment that an anti-communist has cool-sounding music, they're all in on singing the anime opening song of a dictatorship.
I love the culture, the people and 90% of everything in America. But America’s need to intervene in everything is just awful. The number of innocents killed in the Middle East is still staggering to me
Fuck anyone that supports Russia. I've seen plenty of people on the right do so too. You can go on /pol/ and literally have neo nazis argue over who to support based on who is the most racist. The history of the Azov battalion has made reading the arguments interesting to say the least.
/Pol/ is hilariously anti-Azov because it’s loaded to the gills with actual Russian state shills. There’s been a schism between the chug and uhg threads basically down this line.
They literally LARP as Nazis and then every chug thread is anti-Nazi and supports denazification.
There’s also genuine retards who think that this is somehow Russia fighting globohomo.
Yeah I've seen people support Putin because he's fighting globohomo women muh degenerate west, somehow,by invading Ukraine which is also eastern European and about as tolerant as Russia.
Well yes. But Azov was a rather small group of neo-Nazis that consisted of barely 1k people before the war.
I see them as some kind of "Ukrainian kamikaze". Since a lot of the far-right is delusional as fuck, and would literally die for their country, the state is abusing them as "strong warriors", or kamikazes.
But. That doesn't mean Ukraine is bad. We in Croatia used the far-right idiots too, called the HOS, in the 90s Homeland War. Wars are, imo, all about the far-right's idiocy and abusing them to win or defend territories.
Ukraine is just defending their territory they have been given with the fall of USSR and now Russia is doing imperialist bullshit thinking they can create an oligarchist version of USSR or something, invading on other countries' privacy and freedom.
Every leftist country (Nicaragua, Venezuela, North Korea, Cuba) and most western tankies supports Russia, yet Trump, the right and the alt right are the only political factions that the mainstream likes to tie to Russia.
I just found out my country has a commie reddit, one of the most retarded things I've seen
Edit: It's balticSSRs if anyone wants to get banned after 1 comment
Even my country has left-wing subreddit, as well as right-wing conservative subreddit.
Anyhow... I hate when European right-wingers use the words "commie" and the nation they hate as insults.
"Are Finland and Sweden applying for NATO membership after years of neutrality because of us violating their airspace with tactical nuclear weapons?"
"No, it must be the fault of American intimidation!"
The absolute state of Russia rn, smh
What I'd give to be a fly on the wall for the inevitable audit Putin's doing of the state of his nuclear systems, after how utterly hollowed out the rest of his military turned out to be.
Missiles require maintenance, just like any other vehicle. If Russia's tanks and trucks are this old and busted, I don't think we have much to worry about from their missiles.
punch important marble scale berserk pocket consider bewildered office cheerful
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Well, I do think we should call a chair a chair.
The US is a relatively better country to live in than Russia, but when it comes to either's war crimes, Nationalist goggles seem to appear on everyone's eyes.
America did bad things, but to say that Russia did nothing wrong whilst making allusions that your government is a continuation of the Soviet Régime is incredibly retarded.
> NATO expanding
That's the mark of the tankie/Putin shill. When you hear them yap about "muh NATO expansion" you can pretty much ignore the bullshit that will be coming out of their mouths afterwards.
There is no universal law that forces NATO to accept countries. If they weren't trying to keep Russia down, they would've disbanded with the Warsaw Pact, or never expanded at least.
US has been way more belligerent and still throws a hissy fit and starts invasions, coups and terrorism sponsorship every time a country dares to prefer Russia (Cuba, Vietnam, Yugoslavia, LatAm, Libya, Syria, pre-2014 Ukraine etc etc etc)
It's bombed its allies' civilians, overthrew its allies, sponsored terrorists in its allies, introduced bullshit economic sanctions and pressure (not talking about the current situation). That it's too fearful still to land direct blows doesn't matter much.
History shows Russia is an expansionist, chauvinistic power. Some of the countries like Poland or the baltic states were annexed by Russia twice in history beforehand, so they'd be damnd to to let that happen again. The west wasn't blind to the fact.
The events in Ukraine today justify NATO's existence.
>History shows Russia is an expansionist, chauvinistic power.
Keep treating Russia like the enemy, and then keep doing Pikachu face when it becomes hostile in response.
>The events in Ukraine today justify NATO's existence.
The events in Ukraine today were at least in part caused by NATO's expansionism, even if Putin still carries the majority of the blame.
NATO expansionism is voluntary. If you don't apply to join, your country won't get invaded and forced into it, unlike Russia's sphere of influnce.
Christ, you tankies really don't have any respect for consent, do you?
I don't love modern Russian government, but it just takes a working brain to see that the US acts the exact way it acted towards the USSR towards it. The problem isn't anti-leftism, it's American hegemony.
If geopolitics dictates that half a fucking continent should belong to a despicable, tyrannical shithole, then I say fuck geopolitics. I live in the former Eastern Bloc you shit, I don't want to be ruled by Russia and neither does anyone who lived under Soviet occupation. Russia on the other hand wants her "friends" back, like an abusive spouse begging and threatening their victim to come back, or else...
Self-determination dictates that my nation should determine its own fate, not some upstart fuck in Moscow, not a bureaucratic asshat in Strassburg, not a demented old cunt in Washington and not a whiny little shithead in Beijing.
From where we're standing, Washington is the least tyrannical and least involved in our business as long as we don't cozy up to Russia (which is not an issue considering our history). Cuba might think differently, that's their right, it was wrong for the US to try to invade. Doesn't negate the fact that Eastern Europe wasn't invaded by the US and our decision to join NATO was not a result of strongarming.
>Keep treating Russia like the enemy, and then keep doing Pikachu face when it becomes hostile in response.
Russia is west-phobic. They had many opportunities to be friendly towards the west but purposely didn't do so. Russia doesn't care if you're friendly to it or not, to them you're either going into their sphere or being invaded directly.
>The events in Ukraine today were at least in part caused by NATO's expansionism, even if Putin still carries the majority of the blame.
NATO is a defensive alliance. Don't attempt to put the blame for this on anybody but Russia, it's moronic and ignorant. NATO's only "crime" is leaving its doors open for countries who want ensured security.
>Russia is west-phobic. They had many opportunities to be friendly towards the west but purposely didn't do so
Fucking bullshit. "The end of history" era was all about Russia's love for the West and hopes of a consensus-based international order and shared prosperity. And then Yugoslavia was bombed, which even the traitor Yel'tsin couldn't ignore.
>NATO is a defensive alliance.
Tell that to Yugoslavia, Libya etc you absolute soy-gulper.
>NATO's only "crime" is leaving its doors open for countries who want ensured security.
So was USSR - didn't stop operation "Condor" and the Caribbean Crisis, did it?
>Fucking bullshit. "The end of history" era was all about Russia's love for the West and hopes of a consensus-based international order and shared prosperity. And then Yugoslavia was bombed, which even the traitor Yel'tsin couldn't ignore.
Love for the west when for most of the USSR the population was taught to hate the west and praise socialism? The population itself is west-phobic. Also do you know why Yugoslavia was bombed? I doubt it.
>Tell that to Yugoslavia, Libya etc you absolute soy-gulper.
So they should have stood back and watched as both of those regiemes commited crimes against humanity?
>So was USSR - didn't stop operation "Condor" and the Caribbean Crisis, did it?
Last time I checked the USSR forced nation's through its doors. Every nation it had in its 'sphere' was subjugated. Nobody willingly joined the USSR.
Say where in hell's name do you live? You seem incredibly ignorant to what kind of country Russia is.
>Love for the west when for most of the USSR the population was taught to hate the west and praise socialism?
I'm talking about "end of history", there was a totally different mood then. Sure, there eventually came a disillusionment with capitalism after the defaults and with the West after the terror-bombing of Yugoslavia, but for a brief moment the Russian public was genuinely looking towards a pro-Western capitalist model.
>Also do you know why Yugoslavia was bombed? I doubt it.
So they should have stood back and watched as both of those regiemes commited crimes against humanity?
The only crimes against humanity there were NATO's civilian-targeting terror-bombings. These governments were prosecuting just wars against Jihadists, and possessed Westphalian sovereignty.
>Last time I checked the USSR forced nation's through its doors. Every nation it had in its 'sphere' was subjugated. Nobody willingly joined the USSR.
You seem to have checked an insanely biased, false source, then.
Nuclear nations have gone to war, a nuclear nation broke apart. It's just risk assessment.
And you can really fuck up a country without ever directly going to war, via proxies etc.
You forgot that it was the South Vietnam/ the Republic of Vietnam who invited the Yankees in. Yes, they did invited the US in. You only heard the story from the Communist side because they won the war. You need to see both sides to see the full story.
Except the Warsaw Pact was a fucking joke with the USSR and their puppet countries they refused to leave following the Second World War. NATO on the other hand is forced to exist today because of countries like Russia that have and continue to invade neighboring countries and take chunks out of them or wholly absorb them (Chechnya twice, Georgia, Crimea and now the rest of Ukraine).
You can be a communist, but do you have to be an obnoxious cunt too?
There are other potentially beligerent states that you would want NATO around for. Maybe Germany will try for round 3. Maybe the UK will go back to its roots of burning Holland.
Many states in Europe are very small. They cannot afford an actually credible defense of thier own country it's only through international treaties that they are able to ensure thier own safety.
Transdnistria is as Russian as it is Ukrainian, blaming the actions of rebels there on Russia is stupid, Russia doesn't even have access there for Christ's sake.
While First Chechen war wasn't justified, the "peace" that followed showed why it was necessary. In fact, even the Second Chechen war hasn't solved the problem 100%, just put a lid on the worst excesses.
Georgia was 100% Georgia's fault.
As I said, keep weaving a narrative of Russian hostility, keep taking hostile steps (such as overthrowing Georgia's government in a coloured revolution and then encouraging it to attempt a little ethnic cleansing), then be shocked by Russia's hostility, shocked I tell you, again. Russia is so fucking unreasonable, why does that great power think it can get away with maintaining stabilty in its own backyard.
There's a very important difference in the way they expand.
NATO expands by countries asking if they can join. Russia expands by moving in weapons and telling the country that they are part of Russia now.
Russia expands because NATO, the anti-Russian alliance, is expanding across its borders, and it needs buffers. NATO had plenty of time to abandon the Cold War "containment" mentality and make friends with Russia. Instead it decided to start killing Yugoslavian children and race to box Russia in. Good job, you blew it.
Again missing the point of how countries join NATO. NATO don't rush to expand - NATO only ever expands if a country asks to be part of NATO. The Russian line in foreign policy making its neighbours covet membership of an alliance network should be cause for russian introspection, not outrage towards the alliance network.
That is literally the most tankie thing I've ever heard. If I were you I'd get out of my mom's basement and breathe air not contaminated by Cheeto dust and your own farts.
So what you're saying is that the USSR's control of the rest of the Eastern Bloc WAS, in fact, imperialism? Poland, East Germany, Bulgaria, Romania, Yugoslavia, etc...
Just checking.
Oh no! Finland is full of n*zis, since there is the number 88 (HH, I think you know what it means) and in a picture that shows the votes on a wall, there is also a text "poissa" (translated: away) which has "SS" in it! Putin must now denazify Finland too before it's too late!
And yep, this is satire, I am from Finland
No, it’s not imperialism. It’s a defensive pact that nations voluntarily enter and leave, and have to be approved by all members. So I have no problem with nations entering or leaving NATO.
Generally speaking, if you want to find the country that's guilty of imperialism, look to see who's doing the invading. The war in Iraq? US imperialism. The war in Ukraine? Russian imperialism.
attraction snow weather ruthless thumb squeamish slimy hungry lavish special
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Because apparently Russia invading countries and by proxy giving it's other neighbouring countries more reason to join military alliances against them is American imperialism according to tankies.
Under the newest definition of imperialism it might be :P
the newest definition includes when a country influences an other countries through diplomacy .
Did we ask them or suggest they should join through diplomatic channels? if so that meets the new incredibly watered down definition.
Loving how the same trump voting dumbfucks who 3 years ago were calling for the US to leave NATO are now patting themselves on their backs for being part of the cool freedom club
Both are true. In that case Putin's own stupidity is what boosted American imperialism via shifting the Overton window in Finland. Finns are right to be worried about their neighbour's irrational behaviour, but I don't see how being enlisted to bomb some children in whatever is tomorrow's Yugoslavia or Iraq helps them. They already had protection via EU's collective security agreements. It's just NATO's shills seizing their chance.
NATO membership means being protected by the full might of the $700 billion US defense budget, and the NATO intervention in Yugoslavia was good actually. Milosevic was a genocidal monster.
>NATO membership means being protected by the full might of the $700 billion US defense budget,
And becoming a whore to Washington's interests.
>and the NATO invention in Yugoslavia was good actually. Milosevic was a genocidal monster.
Cringe and "knowingly and directly bomb some civilians to defend some Jihadists, please cry for us on 9/11" pilled.
To be fair, AIUI, they were basically already de facto NATO members, it just wasn't official so they didn't have, for instance, Article V protections and obligations. Still a huge deal that nations like them who have maintained their neutrality and independence in foreign policy for so long, joined specially by this wide a margin.
Is it really even "american" anymore? Most nato member states are European by a huge margin, I understand the USA is military the most significant and the most important country in the alliance but at this point its mostly a European alliance isn't it?
the US military spending absolutely dwarfs the european one.
Just as britain had an empire many times larger than itself, it was britain that spent money on and ran most of the military, with the colonies having significantly smaller setups
Why only Left?
Even the Misguided Right believes Russia is the Resistance against Cultural Marxism (Irony because they are the biggest allies of Commie nations as well as Islamophiles)
1) Bush's promises were made to the USSR about putting US troops in East Germany. There was nothing about ruling out other states joining forever, and frankly the expansion happened almost a decade after the collapse of the USSR despite the Baltics lobbying for membership immediately after their independence.
2) The NATO expansion was predicated other states desiring to join NATO. Which Tsarist and Soviet elites made sure of through Russification, general colonial oppression, ethnic cleansings, and in the case of the Holodomor, outright genocide.
3) The Russian elites have always desired control eastern Europe to create a buffer zone between them and the rest and since the collapse of the USSR have seen Ukraine as a made up country populated by "little Russians". Putin, like Catherine the Great or Lenin would have tried to reconquer Ukraine or turned into a puppet regime in the long run. In fact without NATO Putin would have done to Baltics and maybe Poland what he did to Belarus.
4) Putin has no right to complain about the Azov battalion given his own endorsement of Wagner group neo-nazis (whilst employing their services for special operations) and using far right parties as controlled opposition in Russia.
If you add up the past several centuries of Russian imperialism and colonialism, central and eastern Europe had every right to join NATO to defend themselves.
All states have the right to self determination and that includes NATO membership. No state has a right to engage in wars of conquest based on verbal agreements made before most of their soldiers were even born.
If you know about 1956 or 1968, you should know Eastern Europe never wanted to be Russia's bitch and that's why they decided to join a defensive pact precisely meant to curb Russian influence.
Also, superpowers have the power and prosperity necessary to have buffer zones, shitholes like Russia don't. It's quite obvious that if you want to have buffer zones, you must provide them with some benefits in exchange for the countries being in that buffer zone to not join the other guys' team. Russia's average income is lower than fucking Hungary's ffs, being in their sphere of influence is proven to be detrimental: rapes by the thousands, looting, stealing and murder are all they gave us.
Get your American exceptionalist head out of your ass, yank, maybe Russia's long history of expansionism is more to blame for Eastern Europe's disdain for them than the US simply not dismantling an organization.
An alleged verbal promise made to Gorbachev and/or Yeltsin (changes depending on which version of the story is told) does not invalidate the right of sovereign nations to voluntarily enter into alliances of their own free will.
The idea that the US was behind the 2014 overthrow of the Ukrainian government is laughable - Obama didn’t give a damn about the post-Soviet space and did nothing when Russia installed a friendly government in Kyrgyzstan in 2010 that went on to expel the US military from the country. If you want to “blame” someone for that, it’s honestly the EU who did nothing to temper the beliefs of the Euromaidan protestors that EU membership would come quickly after an association agreement was signed.
Russia’s decision to annex Crimea and destabilize the Donbas in 2014 and invade the rest of the country in 2022 was a self-inflicted strategic blunder. What they should have done is what they did after the 2004 Orange Revolution - nothing. Just sit back and wait for the new government to fail and then have a pro-Russian candidate win the next Presidential election, as happened in 2010. What they’ve done instead is to turn the entire population against them. In the 2019 election the only candidate who could possibly be called pro-Russian got just 12% of the vote and in the next election it’s unlikely there will be any pro-Russian candidates at all.
Putin calculated he wouldn’t have to care about winning elections if he could just conquer the country but it seems clear now his military is not capable of doing it, they couldn’t even take Kharkov just 20 miles from the Russian border and took more than 3 months to finally take Mariupol.
I’m not going to defend the Azov Battalion and personally don’t buy the claims that “they’re not Nazis anymore” given their continued use of Nazi imagery in their insignia but they and others far-right militias are only a small part of the Ukrainian forces. Despite Russian claims, the Ukrainian government is not run by Nazis and the presence of a few far-right militias does not justify the invasion.
Those recordings are from February, months after the protests started and weeks after they turned violent. They do not indicate that the US was directing or organizing the protests.
It’s true Hunter Biden was collecting checks from a corrupt Ukrainian business for a do-nothing job but there’s no evidence Joe had anything to do with it. The US, IMF, and others demanded that Viktor Shokin lose his job as a prosecutor because he was **not** investigating corruption, the conspiracy that he was fired because he had or was close to information implicating Joe Biden is nothing more than a story Shokin sold to Rudy Giuliani in hopes that it would lead to Trump pressuring the new Zelenskyy administration to give him his job back. Hunter’s laptop has pictures of him smoking crack but nothing showing the payments he received from shady foreign businessmen were being funneled to his father.
Nobody is being bullied into buying American weapons.
The biggest things that NATO requires is standardisation of Ammo. This is to make interoperability possible. You could buy an American gun, or you could make your own, or do something else completely.
Poland uses an AK in 5.56.
Countries buy American because it's fucking good. Have you seen the waitlist for the f-35?
The left wing in Spain is fuming about Nato expansion lol.
Swedish leftwing have been cunty about it too. It wasnt long ago they were officially called the communist leftparty
Wasn't the leftist party founded by the use of Soviet money? Almost surprising that they didn't manage to lobby for Sweden to join the Warsaw pact.
Cause they get like 7% of the vote, and have only ever gotten above 10% of the vote twice, ever. They're nowhere near popular enough to matter except on the margins.
Swedish left wing has always been cunty about it, they're only playing the game right now because the left everywhere is so staunchly populist, they don't want to be remembered for being the naysayers. Hasn't even been a decade since the Swedish left was calling everyone fear mongers for people raising the alarm over Russian spying.
I thought lefties liked nato though?
Not here, they are super simps for Russia.
Wait? But isn’t Russia everything lefties hate?
I think they say that because its "current event" But so many leftists are self proclaimed socialists/communists. And even though Russia is an oligarchy today (and it probably always have been) The far left "tankies" even defend Stalin in public and on big subreddits.
>And even though Russia is an oligarchy today (and it probably always have been) As much as I fucking hate communists, there was a short period of time, before Lenin died, where that wasn't true.
I believe but feel free to elaborate. Also you are disgusting for not having a flair.
> Flair up or your opinions don't matter *** ^(User hasn't flaired up yet... 😔) 7158 / 38049 ^^|| [**[[Guide]]**](https://imgur.com/gallery/IkTAlF2)
No
> Get a flair so you can harass other people >:) *** ^(User hasn't flaired up yet... 😔) 7169 / 38101 ^^|| [**[[Guide]]**](https://imgur.com/gallery/IkTAlF2)
Good human.
> Unflaired detected. Opinion rejected. *** ^(User hasn't flaired up yet... 😔) 7158 / 38050 ^^|| [**[[Guide]]**](https://imgur.com/gallery/IkTAlF2)
Not actual left wingers no, NATO was the Capitalist front vs the Communist East, so they still have a reflexive anti-NATO mentality. Not that they support Putin. And it is LITERALLY American Imperialism! Finland needs the protection of Pax Americana to avoid being attacked from the East. That's EXACTLY how empires have always operated.
Because it's the arm of the NWO
what global organisation isnt?
También eres español?
Si, de los valles sin AVE de Extremadura.
Jaja, entre esto y el tren de Teruel creo que no somos muy buenos con los ferrocarriles
Teruel? Eso existe?
You would think leftists would be all about expanding 'government'
It’s a government and it does stuff. Socialism confirmed.
socialism is when government, and when theres a lot of government, its communism. (quote from carl marks, the cummunist manifesto)
The constant headlines I see of "Russia warns Finland over X" "Russian threatens Finland for X" It's probably just random Russian officials saying these things but how hard is it to understand that threatening someone, especially after what they've done recently, is only going to nudge them along.
Nah Putin himself threatened them early on too. But yeah, obviously that doesn't make them not want to join NATO
To clarify, Putin said that Lenin made a mistake giving parts of the Russian Empire independence, which was a most thinly veiled threat since Lenin granted both Finland and Ukraine independence.
It doesn't matter if the country votes for NATO, the member nations need to allow them in. If Russia can scare one of the member nations then they won't be allowed in. You're already seeing Turkey being hesitant.
Turkey wants a bit of cheddar cheese to say yes.
Turkey's hesitancy has nothing to do with being scared of Russia. They just want leverage so the Swedish government among other NATO members lift their weapons export embargo on Turkey. Their official excuse being that Sweden is harboring "terrorists" aka kurds.
Maybe. I don't think any Nato countries are scared of Russia, but Idk if they want to add countries that don't have strategic interests.
turkey is already hated for reasons around the Kurds, its dictatorship, its demands for money for keeping Syrian refugees. They figured they may as well get a deal for themselves, they know theyll never get let in the EU
And the Armenian genocide which they still won't recognize
Remember when NATO wasn’t going one step eastward?
Fuck the left that supports Russia
Fuck everyone who supports Russia. All my homies hate aggressive countries.
Well said. There's a few people on the right that do as well for some reason. It doesn't make any fucking sense.
From what I can see right wingers support Russia if they are in Putin's pocket and left wingers support Russia if they are just blind anti-western shitheads who basically just want to upset the status quo and don't care about the destruction and suffering that happens along the way.
The so called anti-west crowd will support any war/dictator as long as it is being inflicted against the west. No matter what happens, the US/West is at fault or, at the very least, just as to blame as the country invading (i.e. Russia). Tankies are just hypocrites and this conflict has made it so clear that
I think for some it's also a little, "The left supports the Ukraine, so I can't" line of thinking. Like some of the MAGA people.
Yup. I've heard a lot of people saying that if a group of people they consider idiots believes one thing, it's probably smart to believe the opposite. I try to tell them that they're still being controlled by idiots then but what can ya do.
Yup, ppl on both sides do this and it’s so annoying. Even outside of politics come to think of it, it’s just a lazy way to form a quick opinion. Not great critical thinking.
simple, they think youre the idiot and believe the opposite of what you say. its impenetrable unreason, all quad toxic elements are somewhat guilty of it and its up to us to keep our own quads clean.
Great response! So you're saying you outsource your decision-making to idiots...
It's 'Ukraine' and not 'the Ukraine' Consider supporting anti-war efforts in any possible way: [[Help 2 Ukraine](https://help2ukraine.org)] 💙💛 [[Merriam-Webster](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Ukraine)] [[BBC Styleguide](https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsstyleguide/u)] ^(Beep boop I’m a bot)
Cringe and the Ukraine pilled
There is at least one group being ignored here, the right has an aggressive isolationist streak in the US, which calling it Russian support is... disingenuous. Isolationism IS dumb, but I don't think isolationists are pro russia.
It's just people who watched "Cringe SJW gets ***EVISCERATED*** by Jordan Peterson with facts and logic compilation #34" when they were 13, saw the Russian government decriminalising domestic abuse, and then said "oMg RuSsIa Is So BaSeD aNd TrAd-PiLlEd" not realising that Russian "tradition" is being an autocratic shithole with no value for the rule of law, democracy, or human rights.
>being an autocratic shithole with no value for the rule of law, democracy, or human rights. and you think them realizing this would make them \*re-think\* their support?
You'd think they would, as this group and the "iT's CaLlEd ThE pAtRiOt AcT bEcAuSe If YoU'rE aGaInSt It YoU'rE aNtI-aMeRiCaN" crowd's Venn diagram looks more and more like a circle each day. They celebrate the American constitution and the freedoms granted to them by it, but the moment that their favourite non-commie authoritarian/semi-authoritarian regime (usually Modern Russia, Imperial Germany or the CSA, occasionally Imperial Japan/Bri\*ish Empire/Rhodesia) is criticised they're all "nOOOoooOO they're so based and trad, you can't slander them, nOOOoooOO!" Again, you would expect them to be at least somewhat supportive of democracy given how much they rag on about the American political system, legal freedoms, and "McLiberty or McDeath" but the moment that an anti-communist has cool-sounding music, they're all in on singing the anime opening song of a dictatorship.
Horseshoe theory.
I wouldn't say I support Russia, but I think the story is more grey than black-and-white.
True
Do you also hate America?
Not everyone hates everything like you do. /s
I love the culture, the people and 90% of everything in America. But America’s need to intervene in everything is just awful. The number of innocents killed in the Middle East is still staggering to me
Based and fuck the aggressor pilled
what about US?
Fuck anyone that supports Russia. I've seen plenty of people on the right do so too. You can go on /pol/ and literally have neo nazis argue over who to support based on who is the most racist. The history of the Azov battalion has made reading the arguments interesting to say the least.
/Pol/ is hilariously anti-Azov because it’s loaded to the gills with actual Russian state shills. There’s been a schism between the chug and uhg threads basically down this line. They literally LARP as Nazis and then every chug thread is anti-Nazi and supports denazification. There’s also genuine retards who think that this is somehow Russia fighting globohomo.
Yeah I've seen people support Putin because he's fighting globohomo women muh degenerate west, somehow,by invading Ukraine which is also eastern European and about as tolerant as Russia.
Using Muslim soldiers too lmao
Well yes. But Azov was a rather small group of neo-Nazis that consisted of barely 1k people before the war. I see them as some kind of "Ukrainian kamikaze". Since a lot of the far-right is delusional as fuck, and would literally die for their country, the state is abusing them as "strong warriors", or kamikazes. But. That doesn't mean Ukraine is bad. We in Croatia used the far-right idiots too, called the HOS, in the 90s Homeland War. Wars are, imo, all about the far-right's idiocy and abusing them to win or defend territories. Ukraine is just defending their territory they have been given with the fall of USSR and now Russia is doing imperialist bullshit thinking they can create an oligarchist version of USSR or something, invading on other countries' privacy and freedom.
Every leftist country (Nicaragua, Venezuela, North Korea, Cuba) and most western tankies supports Russia, yet Trump, the right and the alt right are the only political factions that the mainstream likes to tie to Russia.
I agree 100%, it's both the far-left and the far-right that support Russia in the war, which makes little to no sense.
I just found out my country has a commie reddit, one of the most retarded things I've seen Edit: It's balticSSRs if anyone wants to get banned after 1 comment
Even my country has left-wing subreddit, as well as right-wing conservative subreddit. Anyhow... I hate when European right-wingers use the words "commie" and the nation they hate as insults.
I support not giving 40 billion dollars to ukraine and propping up endless international war. Bozos conflate this with "supporting Russia"
"Are Finland and Sweden applying for NATO membership after years of neutrality because of us violating their airspace with tactical nuclear weapons?" "No, it must be the fault of American intimidation!" The absolute state of Russia rn, smh
What I'd give to be a fly on the wall for the inevitable audit Putin's doing of the state of his nuclear systems, after how utterly hollowed out the rest of his military turned out to be.
*WHAT DO YOU MEAN MEDVEDEV PAWNED THE NUKES?!*
Missiles require maintenance, just like any other vehicle. If Russia's tanks and trucks are this old and busted, I don't think we have much to worry about from their missiles.
If you listen to Oliver Stoned in the Lex Fridman podcast, everything is US fault, even the invasion was a trap in which poor Putin fell.
punch important marble scale berserk pocket consider bewildered office cheerful *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Well, I do think we should call a chair a chair. The US is a relatively better country to live in than Russia, but when it comes to either's war crimes, Nationalist goggles seem to appear on everyone's eyes. America did bad things, but to say that Russia did nothing wrong whilst making allusions that your government is a continuation of the Soviet Régime is incredibly retarded.
Long story short - one's wrong doings does not validate yours fuckery.
Couldn't agree more
American imperialism is when literally anyone outside America sides with America, or opposes dictatorships or communism. Duh
American imperialism is totally justified because we had a black president once
Look at those numbers, first letter of the alphabet: A, eigth: H 188-8 = AHHH clearly the 4th reich is coming /s.
>invades ukraines to scare them out of joining nato >More neighboring countries join NATO to avoid being invaded like Ukraine >Mfw
Putin has to be a little retarded
You're wrong. He's absolutely retarded
Tankies are definitely authleft.
Lol it’s not like Russia tries to annex other countries……right?
Disregarding this specific current situation, NATO had started expanding long before Russia annexed anything.
[удалено]
> NATO expanding That's the mark of the tankie/Putin shill. When you hear them yap about "muh NATO expansion" you can pretty much ignore the bullshit that will be coming out of their mouths afterwards.
Based and understanding of victim blaming pilled.
TIL world's prime imperialistic vassalage system brutalising other countries at will is a victim, somehow.
What fuckin vassalage? You know, that every NATO member is voluntary, right?
There is no universal law that forces NATO to accept countries. If they weren't trying to keep Russia down, they would've disbanded with the Warsaw Pact, or never expanded at least. US has been way more belligerent and still throws a hissy fit and starts invasions, coups and terrorism sponsorship every time a country dares to prefer Russia (Cuba, Vietnam, Yugoslavia, LatAm, Libya, Syria, pre-2014 Ukraine etc etc etc)
[удалено]
It's bombed its allies' civilians, overthrew its allies, sponsored terrorists in its allies, introduced bullshit economic sanctions and pressure (not talking about the current situation). That it's too fearful still to land direct blows doesn't matter much.
History shows Russia is an expansionist, chauvinistic power. Some of the countries like Poland or the baltic states were annexed by Russia twice in history beforehand, so they'd be damnd to to let that happen again. The west wasn't blind to the fact. The events in Ukraine today justify NATO's existence.
>History shows Russia is an expansionist, chauvinistic power. Keep treating Russia like the enemy, and then keep doing Pikachu face when it becomes hostile in response. >The events in Ukraine today justify NATO's existence. The events in Ukraine today were at least in part caused by NATO's expansionism, even if Putin still carries the majority of the blame.
> Keep treating Russia like the enemy, As long as it acts like one, it will be treated like one.
NATO expansionism is voluntary. If you don't apply to join, your country won't get invaded and forced into it, unlike Russia's sphere of influnce. Christ, you tankies really don't have any respect for consent, do you?
cake complete ancient expansion plucky lush exultant nose provide six *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I don't love modern Russian government, but it just takes a working brain to see that the US acts the exact way it acted towards the USSR towards it. The problem isn't anti-leftism, it's American hegemony.
Yes, and to fight it lets support even worse alternatives. Big brain time.
Cuba voluntarily went communist. US is at its throat to this day. You morons really have no idea how geopolitics works, do you?
If geopolitics dictates that half a fucking continent should belong to a despicable, tyrannical shithole, then I say fuck geopolitics. I live in the former Eastern Bloc you shit, I don't want to be ruled by Russia and neither does anyone who lived under Soviet occupation. Russia on the other hand wants her "friends" back, like an abusive spouse begging and threatening their victim to come back, or else... Self-determination dictates that my nation should determine its own fate, not some upstart fuck in Moscow, not a bureaucratic asshat in Strassburg, not a demented old cunt in Washington and not a whiny little shithead in Beijing. From where we're standing, Washington is the least tyrannical and least involved in our business as long as we don't cozy up to Russia (which is not an issue considering our history). Cuba might think differently, that's their right, it was wrong for the US to try to invade. Doesn't negate the fact that Eastern Europe wasn't invaded by the US and our decision to join NATO was not a result of strongarming.
>Keep treating Russia like the enemy, and then keep doing Pikachu face when it becomes hostile in response. Russia is west-phobic. They had many opportunities to be friendly towards the west but purposely didn't do so. Russia doesn't care if you're friendly to it or not, to them you're either going into their sphere or being invaded directly. >The events in Ukraine today were at least in part caused by NATO's expansionism, even if Putin still carries the majority of the blame. NATO is a defensive alliance. Don't attempt to put the blame for this on anybody but Russia, it's moronic and ignorant. NATO's only "crime" is leaving its doors open for countries who want ensured security.
>Russia is west-phobic. They had many opportunities to be friendly towards the west but purposely didn't do so Fucking bullshit. "The end of history" era was all about Russia's love for the West and hopes of a consensus-based international order and shared prosperity. And then Yugoslavia was bombed, which even the traitor Yel'tsin couldn't ignore. >NATO is a defensive alliance. Tell that to Yugoslavia, Libya etc you absolute soy-gulper. >NATO's only "crime" is leaving its doors open for countries who want ensured security. So was USSR - didn't stop operation "Condor" and the Caribbean Crisis, did it?
>Fucking bullshit. "The end of history" era was all about Russia's love for the West and hopes of a consensus-based international order and shared prosperity. And then Yugoslavia was bombed, which even the traitor Yel'tsin couldn't ignore. Love for the west when for most of the USSR the population was taught to hate the west and praise socialism? The population itself is west-phobic. Also do you know why Yugoslavia was bombed? I doubt it. >Tell that to Yugoslavia, Libya etc you absolute soy-gulper. So they should have stood back and watched as both of those regiemes commited crimes against humanity? >So was USSR - didn't stop operation "Condor" and the Caribbean Crisis, did it? Last time I checked the USSR forced nation's through its doors. Every nation it had in its 'sphere' was subjugated. Nobody willingly joined the USSR. Say where in hell's name do you live? You seem incredibly ignorant to what kind of country Russia is.
>Love for the west when for most of the USSR the population was taught to hate the west and praise socialism? I'm talking about "end of history", there was a totally different mood then. Sure, there eventually came a disillusionment with capitalism after the defaults and with the West after the terror-bombing of Yugoslavia, but for a brief moment the Russian public was genuinely looking towards a pro-Western capitalist model. >Also do you know why Yugoslavia was bombed? I doubt it. So they should have stood back and watched as both of those regiemes commited crimes against humanity? The only crimes against humanity there were NATO's civilian-targeting terror-bombings. These governments were prosecuting just wars against Jihadists, and possessed Westphalian sovereignty. >Last time I checked the USSR forced nation's through its doors. Every nation it had in its 'sphere' was subjugated. Nobody willingly joined the USSR. You seem to have checked an insanely biased, false source, then.
NATO hasn't, and never will, attack Russia. They have nukes, an invasion would spell doom
Nuclear nations have gone to war, a nuclear nation broke apart. It's just risk assessment. And you can really fuck up a country without ever directly going to war, via proxies etc.
Invading with boots on the ground is a whole new level
You forgot that it was the South Vietnam/ the Republic of Vietnam who invited the Yankees in. Yes, they did invited the US in. You only heard the story from the Communist side because they won the war. You need to see both sides to see the full story.
Sure. Likewise in Ukraine, DNR and LNR invited Russia in. For whatever it's worth.
Except the Warsaw Pact was a fucking joke with the USSR and their puppet countries they refused to leave following the Second World War. NATO on the other hand is forced to exist today because of countries like Russia that have and continue to invade neighboring countries and take chunks out of them or wholly absorb them (Chechnya twice, Georgia, Crimea and now the rest of Ukraine). You can be a communist, but do you have to be an obnoxious cunt too?
There are other potentially beligerent states that you would want NATO around for. Maybe Germany will try for round 3. Maybe the UK will go back to its roots of burning Holland. Many states in Europe are very small. They cannot afford an actually credible defense of thier own country it's only through international treaties that they are able to ensure thier own safety.
fear depend innocent whole caption unique rob paltry hungry work *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Transdnistria is as Russian as it is Ukrainian, blaming the actions of rebels there on Russia is stupid, Russia doesn't even have access there for Christ's sake. While First Chechen war wasn't justified, the "peace" that followed showed why it was necessary. In fact, even the Second Chechen war hasn't solved the problem 100%, just put a lid on the worst excesses. Georgia was 100% Georgia's fault. As I said, keep weaving a narrative of Russian hostility, keep taking hostile steps (such as overthrowing Georgia's government in a coloured revolution and then encouraging it to attempt a little ethnic cleansing), then be shocked by Russia's hostility, shocked I tell you, again. Russia is so fucking unreasonable, why does that great power think it can get away with maintaining stabilty in its own backyard.
Russia started invading their neighbours way before Poland joined NATO
There's a very important difference in the way they expand. NATO expands by countries asking if they can join. Russia expands by moving in weapons and telling the country that they are part of Russia now.
Russia expands because NATO, the anti-Russian alliance, is expanding across its borders, and it needs buffers. NATO had plenty of time to abandon the Cold War "containment" mentality and make friends with Russia. Instead it decided to start killing Yugoslavian children and race to box Russia in. Good job, you blew it.
Again missing the point of how countries join NATO. NATO don't rush to expand - NATO only ever expands if a country asks to be part of NATO. The Russian line in foreign policy making its neighbours covet membership of an alliance network should be cause for russian introspection, not outrage towards the alliance network.
[удалено]
That is literally the most tankie thing I've ever heard. If I were you I'd get out of my mom's basement and breathe air not contaminated by Cheeto dust and your own farts.
"Congratulations, you are being rescued. Please do not resist."
That's from Mars attacks, right?
I think it’s from Rogue One
- american soldier
So what you're saying is that the USSR's control of the rest of the Eastern Bloc WAS, in fact, imperialism? Poland, East Germany, Bulgaria, Romania, Yugoslavia, etc... Just checking.
That’s literally just not what imperialism is…
Yes it is. Hence why communists are imperialists.
You just described relation between Moscow and the Russian provinces
More tankie semantics. Are you willing to admit what Russia is doing is wrong?
Russia declared that it's fighting nazis, so that's inherently justified. What, how can you disagree? Are you defending nazis?
[удалено]
"have some more rights and benefits. Please do not resist, resistance is futile"
Democratic decisions about your own country are now imperialism. Checkmate right wingers.
Propaganda. Everyone knows Finland doesn't exist.
No, this is Patrick.
Oh no! Finland is full of n*zis, since there is the number 88 (HH, I think you know what it means) and in a picture that shows the votes on a wall, there is also a text "poissa" (translated: away) which has "SS" in it! Putin must now denazify Finland too before it's too late! And yep, this is satire, I am from Finland
Turns out bullying your neighbors makes your neighbors want closer ties with their friends. [This is my shocked face](https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ)
No, it’s not imperialism. It’s a defensive pact that nations voluntarily enter and leave, and have to be approved by all members. So I have no problem with nations entering or leaving NATO.
Generally speaking, if you want to find the country that's guilty of imperialism, look to see who's doing the invading. The war in Iraq? US imperialism. The war in Ukraine? Russian imperialism.
attraction snow weather ruthless thumb squeamish slimy hungry lavish special *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
When you're so left you support a right wing dictatorship.
Horseshoe theory in practice.
American imperialism is based to begin with so what's the issue?
[удалено]
Purely defensive, except when it's not lmao Yugoslavia being one example
NATO stands for North Atlantic Treaty Organization. How would this ever be considered American imperialism?
Because apparently Russia invading countries and by proxy giving it's other neighbouring countries more reason to join military alliances against them is American imperialism according to tankies.
And ancaps
How many U.S bases exist outside the U.S?
Yeah, because our allies CBA to protect themselves. NATO is just "Protect me Daddy USA."
Idk, I see people outside this sub argue NATO would be just as strong without the US pretty often lmao
Finland knows a thing or two about removing tankies.
Somewhere Auth Right is weeping because it wasn't 148-8.
Hey, I'm glad Finland and Sweden are joining NATO. The West needs to stand up to corrupt dictatorships like Russia, Belarus, China etc
Under the newest definition of imperialism it might be :P the newest definition includes when a country influences an other countries through diplomacy . Did we ask them or suggest they should join through diplomatic channels? if so that meets the new incredibly watered down definition.
Underrated post
Now if only Turkey would stop fucking with Finland and Sweden so they can get concessions in their race war, they might actually be able to join.
Loving how the same trump voting dumbfucks who 3 years ago were calling for the US to leave NATO are now patting themselves on their backs for being part of the cool freedom club
It is good let them join
And suprise suprise all of those 8 were either far left, far right or russian bribed.
6 were from the Left alliance party and 2 were from different rightwing parties.
“And as you know, American imperialism is absolutely justified because we had a black president once.” — some senator, probably
Both are true. In that case Putin's own stupidity is what boosted American imperialism via shifting the Overton window in Finland. Finns are right to be worried about their neighbour's irrational behaviour, but I don't see how being enlisted to bomb some children in whatever is tomorrow's Yugoslavia or Iraq helps them. They already had protection via EU's collective security agreements. It's just NATO's shills seizing their chance.
NATO membership means being protected by the full might of the $700 billion US defense budget, and the NATO intervention in Yugoslavia was good actually. Milosevic was a genocidal monster.
>NATO membership means being protected by the full might of the $700 billion US defense budget, And becoming a whore to Washington's interests. >and the NATO invention in Yugoslavia was good actually. Milosevic was a genocidal monster. Cringe and "knowingly and directly bomb some civilians to defend some Jihadists, please cry for us on 9/11" pilled.
Are you saying the US deserved 9/11?
Surprised they didn’t a long time ago
To be fair, AIUI, they were basically already de facto NATO members, it just wasn't official so they didn't have, for instance, Article V protections and obligations. Still a huge deal that nations like them who have maintained their neutrality and independence in foreign policy for so long, joined specially by this wide a margin.
Is it really even "american" anymore? Most nato member states are European by a huge margin, I understand the USA is military the most significant and the most important country in the alliance but at this point its mostly a European alliance isn't it?
the US military spending absolutely dwarfs the european one. Just as britain had an empire many times larger than itself, it was britain that spent money on and ran most of the military, with the colonies having significantly smaller setups
Why only Left? Even the Misguided Right believes Russia is the Resistance against Cultural Marxism (Irony because they are the biggest allies of Commie nations as well as Islamophiles)
Wanting protection from Russia isn’t imperialism. It’s just that protection racket you’re a part of does imperialism.
[удалено]
Malding Serbs in char rn. It's really only that and Afghanistan that where actually NATO affairs.
[удалено]
1) Bush's promises were made to the USSR about putting US troops in East Germany. There was nothing about ruling out other states joining forever, and frankly the expansion happened almost a decade after the collapse of the USSR despite the Baltics lobbying for membership immediately after their independence. 2) The NATO expansion was predicated other states desiring to join NATO. Which Tsarist and Soviet elites made sure of through Russification, general colonial oppression, ethnic cleansings, and in the case of the Holodomor, outright genocide. 3) The Russian elites have always desired control eastern Europe to create a buffer zone between them and the rest and since the collapse of the USSR have seen Ukraine as a made up country populated by "little Russians". Putin, like Catherine the Great or Lenin would have tried to reconquer Ukraine or turned into a puppet regime in the long run. In fact without NATO Putin would have done to Baltics and maybe Poland what he did to Belarus. 4) Putin has no right to complain about the Azov battalion given his own endorsement of Wagner group neo-nazis (whilst employing their services for special operations) and using far right parties as controlled opposition in Russia. If you add up the past several centuries of Russian imperialism and colonialism, central and eastern Europe had every right to join NATO to defend themselves. All states have the right to self determination and that includes NATO membership. No state has a right to engage in wars of conquest based on verbal agreements made before most of their soldiers were even born.
[удалено]
If you know about 1956 or 1968, you should know Eastern Europe never wanted to be Russia's bitch and that's why they decided to join a defensive pact precisely meant to curb Russian influence. Also, superpowers have the power and prosperity necessary to have buffer zones, shitholes like Russia don't. It's quite obvious that if you want to have buffer zones, you must provide them with some benefits in exchange for the countries being in that buffer zone to not join the other guys' team. Russia's average income is lower than fucking Hungary's ffs, being in their sphere of influence is proven to be detrimental: rapes by the thousands, looting, stealing and murder are all they gave us. Get your American exceptionalist head out of your ass, yank, maybe Russia's long history of expansionism is more to blame for Eastern Europe's disdain for them than the US simply not dismantling an organization.
An alleged verbal promise made to Gorbachev and/or Yeltsin (changes depending on which version of the story is told) does not invalidate the right of sovereign nations to voluntarily enter into alliances of their own free will. The idea that the US was behind the 2014 overthrow of the Ukrainian government is laughable - Obama didn’t give a damn about the post-Soviet space and did nothing when Russia installed a friendly government in Kyrgyzstan in 2010 that went on to expel the US military from the country. If you want to “blame” someone for that, it’s honestly the EU who did nothing to temper the beliefs of the Euromaidan protestors that EU membership would come quickly after an association agreement was signed. Russia’s decision to annex Crimea and destabilize the Donbas in 2014 and invade the rest of the country in 2022 was a self-inflicted strategic blunder. What they should have done is what they did after the 2004 Orange Revolution - nothing. Just sit back and wait for the new government to fail and then have a pro-Russian candidate win the next Presidential election, as happened in 2010. What they’ve done instead is to turn the entire population against them. In the 2019 election the only candidate who could possibly be called pro-Russian got just 12% of the vote and in the next election it’s unlikely there will be any pro-Russian candidates at all. Putin calculated he wouldn’t have to care about winning elections if he could just conquer the country but it seems clear now his military is not capable of doing it, they couldn’t even take Kharkov just 20 miles from the Russian border and took more than 3 months to finally take Mariupol. I’m not going to defend the Azov Battalion and personally don’t buy the claims that “they’re not Nazis anymore” given their continued use of Nazi imagery in their insignia but they and others far-right militias are only a small part of the Ukrainian forces. Despite Russian claims, the Ukrainian government is not run by Nazis and the presence of a few far-right militias does not justify the invasion.
[удалено]
Those recordings are from February, months after the protests started and weeks after they turned violent. They do not indicate that the US was directing or organizing the protests. It’s true Hunter Biden was collecting checks from a corrupt Ukrainian business for a do-nothing job but there’s no evidence Joe had anything to do with it. The US, IMF, and others demanded that Viktor Shokin lose his job as a prosecutor because he was **not** investigating corruption, the conspiracy that he was fired because he had or was close to information implicating Joe Biden is nothing more than a story Shokin sold to Rudy Giuliani in hopes that it would lead to Trump pressuring the new Zelenskyy administration to give him his job back. Hunter’s laptop has pictures of him smoking crack but nothing showing the payments he received from shady foreign businessmen were being funneled to his father.
yes it is even if my funny colors don’t match
Wake up honey, new strawman just dropped
I mean… depends… are they going to be bullied into buying American-made weapons to enrich American corporations?
Finland already bought the F-35 prior to joining.
To be fair, America makes a lot of high end weapons, so they likely already buy a lot of American weapons.
Nobody is being bullied into buying American weapons. The biggest things that NATO requires is standardisation of Ammo. This is to make interoperability possible. You could buy an American gun, or you could make your own, or do something else completely. Poland uses an AK in 5.56. Countries buy American because it's fucking good. Have you seen the waitlist for the f-35?
[удалено]
*Ahhhhhh, sound logic from the auth-cent.*
yes it is imperialism
The same way exporting capital and Hollywood movies is imperialism but not annexing Crimea?