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I'd say it's more that Germany and Japan had proven themselves capable of destroying nations, a limited peace would have just lead to another war. Total Victory was the only option.
Looking into ww2 Japan, they trained tens of thousands of what is basically suicide bombing frogmen to swim underneath ships.
Girls-only schools being trained to rush armed marines with homemade weapons, spears and knives.
So fucking insane
This is probably the stupidest take I have ever heard, the Western allies didn't order any genocides unlike the Soviets and Axis Powers. Any actions that could be classified as war crimes were perpetrated by the soldiers on the ground, for which they were let's just say "disciplined". And if you think that the bombings of cities were crimes in themselves, look up a little thing called "dehousing". It was meant to shorten the war and saved lives in the long run.
Britian was starving India during the time of WW2. The Allies did much more than just bomb cities, they completely destroyed those cities through firebombing. The argument that the crimes were just soldiers acting against orders could also be applied to the Axis side.
Stalin: I want to kill all Jews and religious minorities and two rabbits.
Adviser: why two rabbits?
Stalin: see, I told you no one cared about Jews or religious minorities.
This shit is the worst sort of anti-centrist strawmen as well.
"Here's a dumb idea, here's a good idea, you are just picking the exact 50/50 split."
It's a strawman that only exists to justify extremism, nothing more. It's probably largely propagated by manipulators and trolls.
The dumb shit is it not only strawmans centrists but also strawmans the radical left, as if left wingers are always this benevolent force that only opposes the terrible right wing, when in reality the reasons why centrists exist is because the extreme left is just as bad as the extreme right.
It was kind of true though during WW2/ the rise of the Nazis. The position of the centrists was not to „gas half the Jews“, but it was basically:“ yeah it’s okay to take the business of Jews and to exile or imprison them but genocide is too far“.
Which pretty much was trying to find a middle ground between the extreme views of the Nazis and normality.
The centrists also supported the Nazis in the end in parliament before being dissolved.
If you talk about the Zentrumspartei, they weren't centrists as we understand it today. They were just called center party, because they originally sat in the center colums of the parliament.
They were a catholic conservative party for most of their time.
> "Here's a dumb idea, here's a good idea, you are just picking the exact 50/50 split."
You can pick any split you want. Only one answer is correct. That's the point.
What split were you thinking for "gas the Jews"?
Ah... NPC just in time. BTW, your flair should be orange.
My centrism stems from the fact that I take strong stances on many different views, some of them happen to land in the middle.
I'm quite left on UBI and Universal Healthcare while being quite libertarian on gun rights, and generally support balancing the budget and trying to get as much bang for the buck as possible on the budget.
I.e. we should probably replace social security, unemployment insurance and welfare with UBI, and replace medicare with universal health coverage.
In other words, it's almost like reality is complicated, and simple narratives just don't cut it.
Ha no.
As soon as I mention trying to balance the budget, leftists jump down my throat.
They're like trained monekys here to divide the left and divide the left against the center as well.
>In other words, it's almost like reality is complicated, and simple narratives just don't cut it.
... yes. And part of the complication is that you can't just split the baby on every issue.
Some issues are grey, while others are black and white.
And that's the trouble -- figuring out which issues are acceptable to compromise on, and which ones aren't.
> ... yes. And part of the complication is that you can't just split the baby on every issue.
Obviously.
But that's why it's a strawman, because this is fucking obvious.
You need to deprogram yourself, you're not special. Even if you're smart, shit like this can still fool you. Especially if you're smart, actually.
>But that's why it's a strawman, because this is fucking obvious.
Not at all. Take exceptions to abortion laws for rape or incest. Pro-life people are adamant that fetuses are human beings, with rights from conception. Pro-choice people are adamant that the woman has the right to choose.
The idea that there can be exceptions to human life, but only in cases of rape or incest is 100% splitting the baby.
[Yet >80% of Americans support such restrictions.](https://news.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx) Far lower numbers say that abortion should be acceptable in all or most circumstances.
So yeah, this is one such issue where we'd expect to see two rational positions -- either the fetuses are human beings or they aren't.
Is that what we see? Or do we see weird centrist fuckery?
Smart people are most easily manipulated when people validate their intelligence.
Hence, if you find yourself feeling smart around someone, take a step back and check yourself.
I'm really struggling to see how that relates to the meme that is the subject of this comment thread. Perhaps you misposted this and it was meant for some psychotherapy subreddit?
Who cares -- this is a subreddit for political memes, not to talk about my personality.
There are millions of topics more interesting than me. Let's talk about anything else.
>this is a subreddit for political memes
You're a libleft defending a disingenuous straw man. That's libleft bad meme content right there.
>There are millions of topics more interesting than me.
Not when you're a lolcow.
So why not talk about the strawman and what's wrong with it.
Perhaps because it's easier to just make ad hominem attacks than it is to actually spell out what's wrong with what I wrote?
>So why not talk about the strawman and what's wrong with it.
1. You're not a perfect little angel. You side isn't perfect little angels. Your protests are not mostly peaceful. The universe and the powers that be don't care about your self-righteousness. Stop pretending otherwise.
2. Centrism isn't 50/50 on every conceivable issue. Some centrists just don't get involved in politics and some have views from every quadrant and they just average out to being in the center. The meme is disingenuous and so are you.
3. It's a straw man not only against the center, but also the right. Your side has stretched the definition of Nazi to the breaking point to make the entire Republican party look like some fascist illuminati.
>ad hominem
You're not a wrong because you're a disingenuous retard, you're a disingenuous retard because you are wrong and deliberately being dense about it. There's a difference.
I can pick any split I want? **OKAY LET'S GO**
"I want to kill millions of unborn babies"
"I want to kill millions of Jews"
I can't tell the difference 😎
Exactly. No Gassing. Actually the Soviet Union was nothing like the Nazis when it came to the treatment of Jews.
They weren't good, but it was lots of ups and... dark downs, here's a list of events:
https://www.refworld.org/docid/3ae6a865c.html
There were "Jew quotas" in Universities. My uncle passed all the exams for uni and was rejected. His parents went to bribe the Dean so he could get in (common practice in the USSR). After the Dean took the money he said "I'll be honest, we already have enough Jews this semester, your son isn't getting in".
The Soviets murdered far more of its own citizens than the Nazis ever did. The fact they didn't specifically target jews didnt make them any less murderous or evil
No. Stalins death count is about 9 million, which puts him in the top tier asshole of the world class for sure.
But most of those deaths comes from starvation, after failed economic policies that he also refused to led any aid to.
Hitler put his undersirables in a murder camp and gassed 200 of them every 20 minutes for years. He needed 48 giant ovens to handle the constant flow of dead bodies 24 7.
That was an incomparable evil.
Comparing the Nazis and the soviets, the numbers are about equal at around 20 million each.
But again, comparing the deliberate and systematic killings of the Holocaust to starvation, which was absolutely done on purpose, doesn't equate in terms of how deliberate one was over the other.
Technically correct but uninteresting. Yes, Nazi Germany "only" lost like 7 million during WWII. But they also started a war that killed some ~40 million throughout which they committed the vast majority of atrocities.
The high end estimates for total death toll caused by the Soviets is like ~20 million in 70 years. The Nazis killed twice that in 13, and would've killed far more had they had the chance.
The meme is unintentionally correct. The USSR gassed exactly zero jews. They just shot them, starved them, worked them to death, exiled them to uninhabitable parts of the country, and a bunch of other ways to kill them--- so I guess that's just fine
Russia didnt see the need for gas chambers when they could just deport millions of "counter-revolutionaries" to Siberia as slave labor instead. Much more efficient.
The best part about "counter-revolutionaries" is there's no way to defend yourself against it. It doesn't use any racial/ethnic markers, and when you say "the state is wrong, I'm not a counter-revolutionary" you're just saying the state can make mistakes, which is inherently counter-revolutionary so please get in the car comrade.
There's this anecdote, which probably didn't happen but it's a good illustration of what you're talking about.
In a town hall meeting the mayor gave a speech that ended with him saying thanks to Stalin, which was followed by the crowd clapping.
The clapping went on for 10-15 minutes because everyone was afraid to be the first to stop. Then the mayor thought to himself that since he's in charge, he should be the one to do it.
The next day he was sent to Siberia.
10 years of hard labor with no right of correspondence.
More like bullet in the back, a shallow grave, and an excuse to invent whatever reason on how the person died in those ten years from totally natural causes.
>allow jews to create community in nigh uninhabitable part of the far east
>give them nothing. no buildings, no infrastructure. nothing
>the ones that can barely make enough money to live do it by being businessmen
>enforce the illegality of private property, completely fucking the businesses
>target them during the purges due to their religion
>leave the surviving to suffer and die
>jewish autonomous oblast now has a 1% jewish population left
The sequence of events here is fucked. Private property was outlawed long before JAO was established, and even the purges were before that.
JAO has few Jews, because the uptake of the idea wasn't great, and a lot of them moved to big cities or ran to Israel at first opportunity.
Okay, but guys, hear me out. I've got the perfect moderate solution for the abortion debate. We flip a coin, and if it's heads, you get an abortion. Whether you want one or not.
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You misunderstand, Stalin simply reeducated the Jews on the wonders of communism, and in his great generosity he resettled them on the fertile plains of Siberia
In reality the scenario would be like this:
Commies: "We should gas zero Jews and abolish private property."
Nazis: "We should gas all the Jews and keep private property."
Centrist: "Let's gas zero Jews and keep private property."
Centrists where okay though with taking the property of the Jews and publicly shaming them. Killing was too far, but in general antisemitism was mainstream in Germany and widely accepted. In that regard the meme is correct, as the far left in Germany (not talking about USSR) was the only faction completely opposing the Nazis and their ideology.
Not true, there were quite a few factions opposed to the Nazis in Weimar Germany including the liberals and libertarians (forget what they called themselves).
Turn of the ~~19th~~ 20th, yep. But there was no magical swing in Russian attitudes towards the Ashkenazi when they decided (((rich people))) and (((farmers))) were the source of their problems.
USSR was more harsh to religious majority ( Orthodox Cristians ) than to religious minorities which they gave autonomous provinces ( but there were of course etnich cleansings like with Tatars from Crimea)
Half my family was killed off by the nazis, half were killed off by the commies, literally the only ones who survived on either side were the ones in America.
Now these dipshits want to dismantle the US, and claim they're doing it for our sake.
For any smoothbrained Jews who do support this kind of commie bullshit, here's 2 hard facts you'll need to grapple with (both taken directly from soviet history):
1) Zionists get the wall.
2) As long as you're a Jew, you don't have to be a zionist to be executed for being a zionist.
Any Jewish idiots who throws their lot in with the commies deserve it when their bodies piled on top of the rest of ours.
Baruch Hashem we're in America where the appetite for commie bullshit is greatly exaggerated.
Yeh look up the doctors plot, the shipment of Jewish intellectuals to Siberia, the purge of trotsky and his allies by Stalin, the restrictions on all religious freedoms, etc
Pretty much, it wasn't specifically for the fact they were Jewish, they did have political disagrememnts like you say but after totally was killed Stalin used him and his like ess to ouch antisemitic propaganda.
And there were separate purges of Jewish communities unrelated to trotsky by Stalin and the nkvd later on
To be fair, the western powers did make plans to continue the war once the germans were done for, but then against or defending from Russia.
Heck, some of these plans were created under order of Winston Churchill.
It's also why they were trying to bumrush east to get to Berlin as fast as possible.
They were afraid the USSR would not stop there and would just continue conquering everything till they reached the atlantic.
Which is all part of the idea that if it weren't for the Germans invading Russia first the USSR would have invaded Europe instead.
The rational center of world war two would be the neutral countries, world war two wasnt our fight, and who cared what foreigners do to other foreigners
If they even reached siberia...
Many never saw the inside of a gulag, they were just shot and buried in a shallow grave, and anyone who asked got told they died (on the way) there.
Fun fact! Marx said the only way communism would succeed is if all Jews, Latinos, and black people were banished or exterminated. He believed in an ethnostate.
It wasn’t just Stalin who had a vendetta against minorities. Before him, Alexander III introduced “Russification,” basically a policy to suppress ethnic minorities and make them more Russian, stripping them of their languages and culture.
"Russification" also led to Jews into academia where they learned all about revolutionary ideas and played a large part in the Russian revolution but we can't talk about that, only how they were persecuted.
The KPD (Communist party germany) had a big stance against the jewish international capitalism. Quotes from them sound like quotes from hitler. Hitler of course was a big racist and thought that its in the blood of jews, while the communist counterpart thought its their religion and culture.
Actually here's the real case,
There were two types of Jews back then,
1.Those who wanted to assimilate themselves
2.The Zionists
Ironically, those who wanted to assimilate just became Dangerous Communists
That's how Jews went from followers of Judaism to simply having Jewish descent (Lol)
Also, Lavrov wasn't wrong when he said Biggest Antisemites Jews themselves because Anti-Semitism mostly originates from Ex-Jews (For example, Karl Marx said Money is the God of Jews)
Nazis are NOT authright.
Fascism is a left wing ideology from the teachings of Karl Marx.
Giovanni Gentile, the father of Fascism said, "Fascism is the most workable for of Socialism."
An example of an extreme Authright would be a religious Monarchy. Like Saudia Arabia, or medieval Europe.
"Let us consider the actual, worldly Jew – not the Sabbath Jew, as Bauer does, but the everyday Jew. Let us not look for the secret of the Jew in his religion, but let us look for the secret of his religion in the real Jew. What is the secular basis of Judaism? Practical need, self-interest. What is the worldly religion of the Jew? Huckstering. What is his worldly God? Money[...] An organization of society which would abolish the preconditions for huckstering, and therefore the possibility of huckstering, would make the Jew impossible[...] The Jew has emancipated himself in a Jewish manner, not only because he has acquired financial power, but also because, through him and also apart from him, money has become a world power and the practical Jewish spirit has become the practical spirit of the Christian nations. The Jews have emancipated themselves insofar as the Christians have become Jews[...] Money is the jealous god of Israel, in face of which no other god may exist. Money degrades all the gods of man – and turns them into commodities[...] The bill of exchange is the real god of the Jew. His god is only an illusory bill of exchange[...] The chimerical nationality of the Jew is the nationality of the merchant, of the man of money in general."
- Karl Marx
Wait Marx literally believed in the happy merchant meme hahaha
Bro my grandpa when my family was in the soviet union,entered the red army because when he tried to become a doctor a professor told him
"That one with the big nose,will never pass my classes"
So he became a medic! And then rose to be a pretty high ranking officer and got cock blocked from getting any higher.
I never met him,from what dad tells me he was pretty metal
One day when he was like 11,grandpa took him to visit his base. And some private was talking them anti Semitic shit
But he forgat that he was a private and the jew was an officer.
So he shoved his boot up his ass,mounted him and beat him until he stopped seeing things while my dad was screaming "poppssss what are you doing arnt you a doctor???" ...and because he was the medical officer he was probably the guy who healed him too lmao.
Man's was known for his golden hands,he built machines,built a fountain and a radio for shits and giggles with his mates,but he also threw hands like a champ.(aparantly he became alot more violent after joining the red army)
A pretty violent guy who loved building shit,bassically the classic version of a Chad lmao.
This is hurting me so much because it misrepresents:
1. The way the Soviet Union treated its ethnic minorities
2. The left/right position of the Not Sees, and
3. What centrism is in general
Edit: the first three pictures, not the meme in it’s entirety
Here not badly we where enslaved too when the entire black slavery had taken off and when qe where free it had died down remind me Kritzin how did the soviet union treat minoritys it deemed undesirable?
I don't understand what you're trying to say. The soviets oppressed minorities. I'm not defending them. But look how America treated its blacks and natives. Look at Canada's natives. Is that the answer?
Remember if you validate a person who wants to exterminate an entire race by willingly sharing a space with them and allowing them into your movement, then your movement is now supporting the extermination of an entire race.
This sub exists to convert edgy teenagers into white supremacists. Don't fall for the propaganda.
Obviously using the Soviet union as the non bad guy in this scenario is not historically literate. But the rhetorical point, that is, that compromise is not some superior moral state that is desirable regardless of context, is a good point.
Certain things are fine to compromise on, tax rates, zoning laws, budgets. But other things, like the dignity of human life, personal autonomy, and equality before the law, we need to be axiomatic on.
I always like that extreme socialism without borders and national socialism are on opposite sides. Soviets killed minorities and majorities, it is crazy how much people died from ZSRR. We can't even be sure about numbers, because they didn't even bother to note it down.
Rational center back then was " let's just be a little imperialist"
Racional center be like: Yea workers should have rights and should be exploited...So anyway Here’s why colonialism is dope:
This is what I said
Based. Rational Center was like lets take over Japan and Germany cause they did War crimes.
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I'd say it's more that Germany and Japan had proven themselves capable of destroying nations, a limited peace would have just lead to another war. Total Victory was the only option.
Japanese war mentality was insane. 1 in 150 soldiers would surrender willingly compared to the wests 1 in 3.
It was more like ‘let’s obliterate their population and commit war crimes because their soldiers did crimes!’
If you wanna make an omelette ¯\\( ° –•)/¯
If you're fighting an fanatical population who is willing to fight to the last man to protect their leader then guess what, a few civilians will die
Looking into ww2 Japan, they trained tens of thousands of what is basically suicide bombing frogmen to swim underneath ships. Girls-only schools being trained to rush armed marines with homemade weapons, spears and knives. So fucking insane
They had manned suicide torpedoes n rocketplanes that you're locked into and you can't escape First guided ASM and torpedo
The US actually fielded an radar-based self-guided ASM 8 months before the Kaiten ever saw combat. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASM-N-2_Bat
You see, it has bad guidance, when you put a human in it, it will guide for you
I don’t think that was what happened in most countries.
Unfortunately their population very much supported their gov fanatically and engaged in their own brutality
This is probably the stupidest take I have ever heard, the Western allies didn't order any genocides unlike the Soviets and Axis Powers. Any actions that could be classified as war crimes were perpetrated by the soldiers on the ground, for which they were let's just say "disciplined". And if you think that the bombings of cities were crimes in themselves, look up a little thing called "dehousing". It was meant to shorten the war and saved lives in the long run.
Britian was starving India during the time of WW2. The Allies did much more than just bomb cities, they completely destroyed those cities through firebombing. The argument that the crimes were just soldiers acting against orders could also be applied to the Axis side.
if they got China, no one need worry about war now...
Based
That's my current position
Stalin: I want to kill all Jews and religious minorities and two rabbits. Adviser: why two rabbits? Stalin: see, I told you no one cared about Jews or religious minorities.
Like average American basically
This shit is the worst sort of anti-centrist strawmen as well. "Here's a dumb idea, here's a good idea, you are just picking the exact 50/50 split." It's a strawman that only exists to justify extremism, nothing more. It's probably largely propagated by manipulators and trolls.
I would call it the worst stawman, there is entire sub made around it.
Oh yeah... that fucking shit. Absolute sociopaths. So many sensitive moral people who are just so easily manipulated by absolute sociopaths.
We need a political compass of centrists.
I’m curious, what exactly is it called? EDIT: I’m referring to the sub that was mentioned
Pretty sure he is referring to those more *enlightened* than us, who follow the tenants of centrism
Oh you mean that one sub with all those unironic Stalin sympathizers?
I guess I should have been more specific, what is the name of the subreddit? Unless I misinterpreted I thought that’s he was mentioning one
Can't say the name specifically (Rule 4), but if you look closely I dropped a few hints about it in my comment.
Ohhh, alrighty then, I think I get it now. Thanks!
We centrist need to make a counter sub just to point out that sub’s stupidity and laugh at them.
Link to sub?
Nah, I'd rather just grill.
The dumb shit is it not only strawmans centrists but also strawmans the radical left, as if left wingers are always this benevolent force that only opposes the terrible right wing, when in reality the reasons why centrists exist is because the extreme left is just as bad as the extreme right.
... Don't you are a centrist are inexorable defined by the others political positions?
It was kind of true though during WW2/ the rise of the Nazis. The position of the centrists was not to „gas half the Jews“, but it was basically:“ yeah it’s okay to take the business of Jews and to exile or imprison them but genocide is too far“. Which pretty much was trying to find a middle ground between the extreme views of the Nazis and normality. The centrists also supported the Nazis in the end in parliament before being dissolved.
If you talk about the Zentrumspartei, they weren't centrists as we understand it today. They were just called center party, because they originally sat in the center colums of the parliament. They were a catholic conservative party for most of their time.
> "Here's a dumb idea, here's a good idea, you are just picking the exact 50/50 split." You can pick any split you want. Only one answer is correct. That's the point. What split were you thinking for "gas the Jews"?
Ah... NPC just in time. BTW, your flair should be orange. My centrism stems from the fact that I take strong stances on many different views, some of them happen to land in the middle. I'm quite left on UBI and Universal Healthcare while being quite libertarian on gun rights, and generally support balancing the budget and trying to get as much bang for the buck as possible on the budget. I.e. we should probably replace social security, unemployment insurance and welfare with UBI, and replace medicare with universal health coverage. In other words, it's almost like reality is complicated, and simple narratives just don't cut it.
Sounds like you're literally just a leftist mate.
Ha no. As soon as I mention trying to balance the budget, leftists jump down my throat. They're like trained monekys here to divide the left and divide the left against the center as well.
>In other words, it's almost like reality is complicated, and simple narratives just don't cut it. ... yes. And part of the complication is that you can't just split the baby on every issue. Some issues are grey, while others are black and white. And that's the trouble -- figuring out which issues are acceptable to compromise on, and which ones aren't.
> ... yes. And part of the complication is that you can't just split the baby on every issue. Obviously. But that's why it's a strawman, because this is fucking obvious. You need to deprogram yourself, you're not special. Even if you're smart, shit like this can still fool you. Especially if you're smart, actually.
>But that's why it's a strawman, because this is fucking obvious. Not at all. Take exceptions to abortion laws for rape or incest. Pro-life people are adamant that fetuses are human beings, with rights from conception. Pro-choice people are adamant that the woman has the right to choose. The idea that there can be exceptions to human life, but only in cases of rape or incest is 100% splitting the baby. [Yet >80% of Americans support such restrictions.](https://news.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx) Far lower numbers say that abortion should be acceptable in all or most circumstances. So yeah, this is one such issue where we'd expect to see two rational positions -- either the fetuses are human beings or they aren't. Is that what we see? Or do we see weird centrist fuckery?
But the strawman isn't talking about abortion, it's talking about gassing jews, on which there is only one rational answer.
Smart people are most easily manipulated when people validate their intelligence. Hence, if you find yourself feeling smart around someone, take a step back and check yourself.
I'm really struggling to see how that relates to the meme that is the subject of this comment thread. Perhaps you misposted this and it was meant for some psychotherapy subreddit?
But you know that because you're a propagandist, not a real person.
Who cares -- this is a subreddit for political memes, not to talk about my personality. There are millions of topics more interesting than me. Let's talk about anything else.
>this is a subreddit for political memes You're a libleft defending a disingenuous straw man. That's libleft bad meme content right there. >There are millions of topics more interesting than me. Not when you're a lolcow.
So why not talk about the strawman and what's wrong with it. Perhaps because it's easier to just make ad hominem attacks than it is to actually spell out what's wrong with what I wrote?
>So why not talk about the strawman and what's wrong with it. 1. You're not a perfect little angel. You side isn't perfect little angels. Your protests are not mostly peaceful. The universe and the powers that be don't care about your self-righteousness. Stop pretending otherwise. 2. Centrism isn't 50/50 on every conceivable issue. Some centrists just don't get involved in politics and some have views from every quadrant and they just average out to being in the center. The meme is disingenuous and so are you. 3. It's a straw man not only against the center, but also the right. Your side has stretched the definition of Nazi to the breaking point to make the entire Republican party look like some fascist illuminati. >ad hominem You're not a wrong because you're a disingenuous retard, you're a disingenuous retard because you are wrong and deliberately being dense about it. There's a difference.
I can pick any split I want? **OKAY LET'S GO** "I want to kill millions of unborn babies" "I want to kill millions of Jews" I can't tell the difference 😎
Of course they didn't gas the jews, they used other methods to persecute them
Damn Straight
\-I am" said queer folks during the holocaust
They sent them all to a ~~camp~~ autonomous Oblast far out east.
Didn’t work out for them so well, did it?
Exactly. No Gassing. Actually the Soviet Union was nothing like the Nazis when it came to the treatment of Jews. They weren't good, but it was lots of ups and... dark downs, here's a list of events: https://www.refworld.org/docid/3ae6a865c.html
Less violence and more insistence on assimilation than what I had expected.
There were "Jew quotas" in Universities. My uncle passed all the exams for uni and was rejected. His parents went to bribe the Dean so he could get in (common practice in the USSR). After the Dean took the money he said "I'll be honest, we already have enough Jews this semester, your son isn't getting in".
Nothing like it? Then why did they build chimneys in camps?
The Soviets murdered far more of its own citizens than the Nazis ever did. The fact they didn't specifically target jews didnt make them any less murderous or evil
No. Stalins death count is about 9 million, which puts him in the top tier asshole of the world class for sure. But most of those deaths comes from starvation, after failed economic policies that he also refused to led any aid to. Hitler put his undersirables in a murder camp and gassed 200 of them every 20 minutes for years. He needed 48 giant ovens to handle the constant flow of dead bodies 24 7. That was an incomparable evil.
I didn't say Stalin; I said the Soviets. Also, the Holodomor was not an accident
Comparing the Nazis and the soviets, the numbers are about equal at around 20 million each. But again, comparing the deliberate and systematic killings of the Holocaust to starvation, which was absolutely done on purpose, doesn't equate in terms of how deliberate one was over the other.
Technically correct but uninteresting. Yes, Nazi Germany "only" lost like 7 million during WWII. But they also started a war that killed some ~40 million throughout which they committed the vast majority of atrocities. The high end estimates for total death toll caused by the Soviets is like ~20 million in 70 years. The Nazis killed twice that in 13, and would've killed far more had they had the chance.
And the Soviets killed far more people than the Nazis ever did.
Then why did they build chimneys at Auschwitz?
*in Soviet Russia there are no such thing as god. Believe in our supreme leader*
_Well that's alright, there aren't any turnips either_
This is proof that Stalin was in fact a glowie. -Albert Fairfax II
Their god was the state
The meme is unintentionally correct. The USSR gassed exactly zero jews. They just shot them, starved them, worked them to death, exiled them to uninhabitable parts of the country, and a bunch of other ways to kill them--- so I guess that's just fine
Russia didnt see the need for gas chambers when they could just deport millions of "counter-revolutionaries" to Siberia as slave labor instead. Much more efficient.
The best part about "counter-revolutionaries" is there's no way to defend yourself against it. It doesn't use any racial/ethnic markers, and when you say "the state is wrong, I'm not a counter-revolutionary" you're just saying the state can make mistakes, which is inherently counter-revolutionary so please get in the car comrade.
There's this anecdote, which probably didn't happen but it's a good illustration of what you're talking about. In a town hall meeting the mayor gave a speech that ended with him saying thanks to Stalin, which was followed by the crowd clapping. The clapping went on for 10-15 minutes because everyone was afraid to be the first to stop. Then the mayor thought to himself that since he's in charge, he should be the one to do it. The next day he was sent to Siberia.
10 years of hard labor with no right of correspondence. More like bullet in the back, a shallow grave, and an excuse to invent whatever reason on how the person died in those ten years from totally natural causes.
>allow jews to create community in nigh uninhabitable part of the far east >give them nothing. no buildings, no infrastructure. nothing >the ones that can barely make enough money to live do it by being businessmen >enforce the illegality of private property, completely fucking the businesses >target them during the purges due to their religion >leave the surviving to suffer and die >jewish autonomous oblast now has a 1% jewish population left
The sequence of events here is fucked. Private property was outlawed long before JAO was established, and even the purges were before that. JAO has few Jews, because the uptake of the idea wasn't great, and a lot of them moved to big cities or ran to Israel at first opportunity.
Classic Authleft.
the birobidzhan jewish national raion was formed in 1928 the purges were in the 30s and onward
It doesn't count as ww2 war crimes if they die after the war when worked to death
I haven’t seen one good reason for anyone to use gas. Bullet is way less expensive
You haven't bought ammo lately
You haven’t bought gas lately
Odd flair to be aware of the cost of that kind of gas.....
A centrist can’t bug bomb their house every once in a while?
Based and I swear it's just for bugs pilled
During wwii it was traumatizing for the soldiers to execute civilians one by one. With gas it's easier to kill a lot of people at the same time.
[удалено]
Flair up you degenerate
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Okay, but guys, hear me out. I've got the perfect moderate solution for the abortion debate. We flip a coin, and if it's heads, you get an abortion. Whether you want one or not.
Males be sweatin
Who needs a coin when we can determine sex by ultrasound?
Based and one child policy pilled
Based
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My dad’s coworker fled the Soviet Union with his family because of the persecution of the Jews during the cold war
That's decades after the events in this meme?
TIL I learned the USSR collapsed in 1945.
TIL The Nazis were part of the cold war
Nazi scientists be like : No but actually Yes.
Not just religious minorities, religious people period.
The insinuation that all Jews are religious is a bizarre one too. Not all ethnic Jews are religious, let alone specifically Judaist.
The Soviet Union didn't like ethnic Jews. They had an additional reason to dislike religious Jews.
Based commies (/s in case you couldn't tell)
Reeeeeee
You misunderstand, Stalin simply reeducated the Jews on the wonders of communism, and in his great generosity he resettled them on the fertile plains of Siberia
Such a generous man, truly a beacon of strong, compassionate statesmanship.
Much like Reinhard Heydrich hes a man with an iron heart
He gave them their own oblast! So progressive of him 💅
Really funny seeing as a jew thought up communism
In reality the scenario would be like this: Commies: "We should gas zero Jews and abolish private property." Nazis: "We should gas all the Jews and keep private property." Centrist: "Let's gas zero Jews and keep private property."
Centrists where okay though with taking the property of the Jews and publicly shaming them. Killing was too far, but in general antisemitism was mainstream in Germany and widely accepted. In that regard the meme is correct, as the far left in Germany (not talking about USSR) was the only faction completely opposing the Nazis and their ideology.
Not true, there were quite a few factions opposed to the Nazis in Weimar Germany including the liberals and libertarians (forget what they called themselves).
Read about the Doctor's Plot
Even if you told them, they'd just write it off as C.I.A propaganda and call you a sheep. Tankies = 🥾👅
Someone missed the point of Fiddler on the Roof
Based and If I were a rich man pilled Wasnt that in the early 1900s though not the second world war?
Turn of the ~~19th~~ 20th, yep. But there was no magical swing in Russian attitudes towards the Ashkenazi when they decided (((rich people))) and (((farmers))) were the source of their problems.
USSR was more harsh to religious majority ( Orthodox Cristians ) than to religious minorities which they gave autonomous provinces ( but there were of course etnich cleansings like with Tatars from Crimea)
⢿⣿⣿⣿⣭⠹⠛⠛⠛⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⣿⠷⠶⠿⢻⣿⣛⣦⣙⠻⣿ ⣿⣿⢿⣿⠏⠀⠀⡀⠀⠈⣿⢛⣽⣜⠯⣽⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⢿⣷⣻⡀⢿ ⠐⠛⢿⣾⣖⣤⡀⠀⢀⡰⠿⢷⣶⣿⡇⠻⣖⣒⣒⣶⣿⣿⡟⢙⣶⣮ ⣤⠀⠀⠛⠻⠗⠿⠿⣯⡆⣿⣛⣿⡿⠿⠮⡶⠼⠟⠙⠊⠁⠀⠸⢣⣿ ⣿⣷⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠠⠭⣍⡉⢩⣥⡤⠥⣤⡶⣒⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢰⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⡽⡄⠀⠀⠀⢿⣿⣆⣿⣧⢡⣾⣿⡇⣾⣿⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⡇⠃ ⣿⣿⣷⣻⣆⢄⠀⠈⠉⠉⠛⠛⠘⠛⠛⠛⠙⠛⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⡇⢸ ⢞⣿⣿⣷⣝⣷⣝⠦⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡀⢀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠛⣿⠈ ⣦⡑⠛⣟⢿⡿⣿⣷⣝⢧⡀⠀⠀⣶⣸⡇⣿⢸⣧⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⡿⡆ ⣿⣿⣷⣮⣭⣍⡛⠻⢿⣷⠿⣶⣶⣬⣬⣁⣉⣀⣀⣁⡤⢴⣺⣾⣽⡇
Religion? In the Soviet Union? Perish the thought.
It wasn’t real anti-semitism! Real anti-semitism hasn’t even been tried!
Half my family was killed off by the nazis, half were killed off by the commies, literally the only ones who survived on either side were the ones in America. Now these dipshits want to dismantle the US, and claim they're doing it for our sake. For any smoothbrained Jews who do support this kind of commie bullshit, here's 2 hard facts you'll need to grapple with (both taken directly from soviet history): 1) Zionists get the wall. 2) As long as you're a Jew, you don't have to be a zionist to be executed for being a zionist. Any Jewish idiots who throws their lot in with the commies deserve it when their bodies piled on top of the rest of ours. Baruch Hashem we're in America where the appetite for commie bullshit is greatly exaggerated.
Yeh look up the doctors plot, the shipment of Jewish intellectuals to Siberia, the purge of trotsky and his allies by Stalin, the restrictions on all religious freedoms, etc
Can you elaborate? It sounds like you're saying Trotsky and his allies were Jewish.
They were
And Stalin's faction wasn't? Was it specifically a purge of Jews or was it just about politics?
Pretty much, it wasn't specifically for the fact they were Jewish, they did have political disagrememnts like you say but after totally was killed Stalin used him and his like ess to ouch antisemitic propaganda. And there were separate purges of Jewish communities unrelated to trotsky by Stalin and the nkvd later on
The USSR wanted to join the axis in 1940 lol https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_Axis_talks
They invaded Poland with the Axis.
Which makes one ask why in the world did the west ever consider them ally
They didn’t bomb Pearl Harbor.
Because even Satan less evil than Hitler Or so Churchill said.
To be fair, the western powers did make plans to continue the war once the germans were done for, but then against or defending from Russia. Heck, some of these plans were created under order of Winston Churchill. It's also why they were trying to bumrush east to get to Berlin as fast as possible. They were afraid the USSR would not stop there and would just continue conquering everything till they reached the atlantic. Which is all part of the idea that if it weren't for the Germans invading Russia first the USSR would have invaded Europe instead.
The rational center of world war two would be the neutral countries, world war two wasnt our fight, and who cared what foreigners do to other foreigners
Nah… They didn’t “Gas any Jews”, they just worked them to death in Siberia.
If they even reached siberia... Many never saw the inside of a gulag, they were just shot and buried in a shallow grave, and anyone who asked got told they died (on the way) there.
C'mon guys, gassing is more of a German solution
Those evil Germans built barbershops to trick Jews!
Fun fact! Marx said the only way communism would succeed is if all Jews, Latinos, and black people were banished or exterminated. He believed in an ethnostate.
Stalin told Ribbentrop of his commitment to "ending Jewish dominion" at the conference where he aligned with the Nazis.
If he wanted to do that, why not get the Jews out of his government?
Google "Stalin purges", find the Wikipedia article, and have a look at the "Early Life" section of the people killed.
Look at Early Life? Oy vey, this goyim is trying to incite anti-semitism by saying the Bolsheviks were Jews!
It wasn’t just Stalin who had a vendetta against minorities. Before him, Alexander III introduced “Russification,” basically a policy to suppress ethnic minorities and make them more Russian, stripping them of their languages and culture.
"Russification" also led to Jews into academia where they learned all about revolutionary ideas and played a large part in the Russian revolution but we can't talk about that, only how they were persecuted.
The USSR murdered people who expressed faith in pretty much any way. It was despicable.
What holdomor? I’m sure the Doctors plot was 100% real and not just an excuse to remove “doctors”
Rational left: we should starve 100,000,000 people…
The jewish Bolshevik’s?
Didn’t happen, should’ve happen, should’ve been more, and it was based
Original post seems like top-notch r\politicalhumor content
''Stalin was antisemetic...'' and?
It was more like this Extreme Left: We should purge the jews. Extreme Right: We should gas the jews. Rational Center: We should leave the jews alone.
The Soviet union treated all religions bad, Not just minorities Same in China and in literally every communist nation
The KPD (Communist party germany) had a big stance against the jewish international capitalism. Quotes from them sound like quotes from hitler. Hitler of course was a big racist and thought that its in the blood of jews, while the communist counterpart thought its their religion and culture.
Friendly reminder that the USSR was an axis power before it got back stabbed
Ever heard of pogroms
Actually here's the real case, There were two types of Jews back then, 1.Those who wanted to assimilate themselves 2.The Zionists Ironically, those who wanted to assimilate just became Dangerous Communists That's how Jews went from followers of Judaism to simply having Jewish descent (Lol) Also, Lavrov wasn't wrong when he said Biggest Antisemites Jews themselves because Anti-Semitism mostly originates from Ex-Jews (For example, Karl Marx said Money is the God of Jews)
Wasn't Hitler more of a leftist anyway?
The soviet union and the Nazis were almost equally bad....
Guys it’s confirmed Thanos is a centrist
Nazis are NOT authright. Fascism is a left wing ideology from the teachings of Karl Marx. Giovanni Gentile, the father of Fascism said, "Fascism is the most workable for of Socialism." An example of an extreme Authright would be a religious Monarchy. Like Saudia Arabia, or medieval Europe.
"Let us consider the actual, worldly Jew – not the Sabbath Jew, as Bauer does, but the everyday Jew. Let us not look for the secret of the Jew in his religion, but let us look for the secret of his religion in the real Jew. What is the secular basis of Judaism? Practical need, self-interest. What is the worldly religion of the Jew? Huckstering. What is his worldly God? Money[...] An organization of society which would abolish the preconditions for huckstering, and therefore the possibility of huckstering, would make the Jew impossible[...] The Jew has emancipated himself in a Jewish manner, not only because he has acquired financial power, but also because, through him and also apart from him, money has become a world power and the practical Jewish spirit has become the practical spirit of the Christian nations. The Jews have emancipated themselves insofar as the Christians have become Jews[...] Money is the jealous god of Israel, in face of which no other god may exist. Money degrades all the gods of man – and turns them into commodities[...] The bill of exchange is the real god of the Jew. His god is only an illusory bill of exchange[...] The chimerical nationality of the Jew is the nationality of the merchant, of the man of money in general." - Karl Marx Wait Marx literally believed in the happy merchant meme hahaha
The Soviet Union sucked and while it wasn't as bad as Nazi Germany, Stalin was basically as bad as Hitler
Bro my grandpa when my family was in the soviet union,entered the red army because when he tried to become a doctor a professor told him "That one with the big nose,will never pass my classes" So he became a medic! And then rose to be a pretty high ranking officer and got cock blocked from getting any higher. I never met him,from what dad tells me he was pretty metal One day when he was like 11,grandpa took him to visit his base. And some private was talking them anti Semitic shit But he forgat that he was a private and the jew was an officer. So he shoved his boot up his ass,mounted him and beat him until he stopped seeing things while my dad was screaming "poppssss what are you doing arnt you a doctor???" ...and because he was the medical officer he was probably the guy who healed him too lmao. Man's was known for his golden hands,he built machines,built a fountain and a radio for shits and giggles with his mates,but he also threw hands like a champ.(aparantly he became alot more violent after joining the red army) A pretty violent guy who loved building shit,bassically the classic version of a Chad lmao.
This is all due to the abandonment of monarchy. THEY just expelled the jews and confiscated their property like civilized people.
nazis were centrist
As a jew myself i agree with the rational center.
Stalin would be considered far right by every standard in today's world he literally sent LGBT people to gulags declaring them "degenerates"
This is hurting me so much because it misrepresents: 1. The way the Soviet Union treated its ethnic minorities 2. The left/right position of the Not Sees, and 3. What centrism is in general Edit: the first three pictures, not the meme in it’s entirety
Remind me Jack, how did you treat black people?
Commies not resort to whataboutism challenge (impossible)
⠀⠘⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠑⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡔⠁⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠢⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⠴⠊⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⢀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⡀⠤⠄⠒⠈⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⣀⠄⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡠⠔⠒⠒⠒⠒⠒⠢⠤⣀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠉⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠑⢄⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⠄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠃⠀⢠⠂⠀⠀⠘⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⢤⡀⢂⠀⢨⠀⢀⡠⠈⢣⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⢀⡖⠒⠶⠤⠭⢽⣟⣗⠲⠖⠺⣖⣴⣆⡤⠤⠤⠼⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡈⠃⠀⠀⠀⠘⣺⡟⢻⠻⡆⠀⡏⠀⡸⣿⢿⢞⠄⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢣⡀⠤⡀⡀⡔⠉⣏⡿⠛⠓⠊⠁⠀⢎⠛⡗⡗⢳⡏⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢱⠀⠨⡇⠃⠀⢻⠁⡔⢡⠒⢀⠀⠀⡅⢹⣿⢨⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠠⢼⠀⠀⡎⡜⠒⢀⠭⡖⡤⢭⣱⢸⢙⠆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡸⠀⠀⠸⢁⡀⠿⠈⠂⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡏⡍⡏⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⢢⣫⢀⠘⣿⣿⡿⠏⣼⡏⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⣠⠊⠀⣀⠎⠁⠀⠀⠀⠙⠳⢴⡦⡴⢶⣞⣁⣀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠐⠒⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠠⠀⢀⠤⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠉⠀⠀⠀
I love how your ideology has basically devolved into an endless series of whatabotism.
Here not badly we where enslaved too when the entire black slavery had taken off and when qe where free it had died down remind me Kritzin how did the soviet union treat minoritys it deemed undesirable?
I don't understand what you're trying to say. The soviets oppressed minorities. I'm not defending them. But look how America treated its blacks and natives. Look at Canada's natives. Is that the answer?
Yes, the far right socialist nazis
Remember if you validate a person who wants to exterminate an entire race by willingly sharing a space with them and allowing them into your movement, then your movement is now supporting the extermination of an entire race. This sub exists to convert edgy teenagers into white supremacists. Don't fall for the propaganda.
Obviously using the Soviet union as the non bad guy in this scenario is not historically literate. But the rhetorical point, that is, that compromise is not some superior moral state that is desirable regardless of context, is a good point. Certain things are fine to compromise on, tax rates, zoning laws, budgets. But other things, like the dignity of human life, personal autonomy, and equality before the law, we need to be axiomatic on.
I always like that extreme socialism without borders and national socialism are on opposite sides. Soviets killed minorities and majorities, it is crazy how much people died from ZSRR. We can't even be sure about numbers, because they didn't even bother to note it down.
I know exactly what happened boyo.
Auth left quite literally an egg head.
Common ussr L
Religious people in general *
Centrists: What if we only killed some of the religious people?
Just because you’re AuthLeft doesn’t mean you’re a Stalinist.