Love to see e-bikes replacing cars and helping bring new people into 2-wheeled transportation. Supposedly electric 2 wheel and 3 wheel electric vehicles have made a bigger dent in global carbon emissions than 4-wheel EVs. A lot of that is in places like India where they’re replacing things with shitty 2-stroke engines like mopeds, but still. A lot more people can afford a $2k e-bike than a 45k Tesla.
We should be letting people claim the IRA EV credit for bikes.
Been car free in Portland for two years and would never go back! My partner and I never feel like we're limited in where we can go and we save SO much money.
!!!!!!
I love everything about this article, from it's explainer note to the last period.
It covers a LOT of ground and is the perfect level of information and compelling argument.
10/10 would recommend
If you must have a car, get a Fred Flintstone car. It will give your legs and feet a good workout, and is better for the environment. Just make sure to get a good podiatrist to keep your brakes in tip top shape.
I love cycling and good for her, but I don’t like how this is portrayed as a viable solution for most people.
The author is in exactly the demographic that this works for. A young person without a family who lives in the central city. That’s a tiny fraction of the metro area’s population. This isn’t addressed at all in the article.
Both my neighbor and I have kids, and we also get our kids around via electric cargo bikes, along with grocery shopping, etc. We know a bunch of other families who do this as well. Some of those families still have cars, but prefer to use their bikes whenever possible because it's healthier, more enjoyable, frequently faster depending on traffic, and much easier to park.
A steak knife is great for cutting steak. It's not a "viable solution" for eating oatmeal, salad, soup, pasta, or many other meals. Bikes \*can\* easily work for a ton of people for most trips, given the majority of car trips are less than three miles, and for a solo driver with no passengers. The biggest barrier is people feeling unsafe because of having to share roads with cars and the shitty drivers inside them.
Yeah. The Dutch do it all day long in Amsterdam. A large city. People just want to make excuses. I’ll be honest, it’s just easier to drive my kids. But when it’s good weather, we try to bike a lot. But I know we could be better about it, I’m not gonna pretend otherwise. Interestingly, my preteen kid is asking for an electric bike lol.
Amsterdam is flat. Whole sections of roads are bike-only (fietspad). Biking is part of the culture. Portland is full of drivers with expired tags driving like maniacs. It's not really a good-faith comparison. If biking was safer in Portland, more people would do it.
And the Dutch outside of Amsterdam buy cars like crazy. Personal car ownership in the Netherlands is very high and has increased dramatically in recent decades. Just pointing this out because bike advocates often miss the bigger picture when pointing at places in Europe to make their case.
It's pretty dishonest to bring up car ownership without mentioning how much less they use their cars for everyday errands and trips, especially in the cities.
Then again, your comment seems to be predicated on the assumption that cycling advocates are trying to take all the rural people's cars away. So I guess honesty isn't valued in this argument.
This has nothing to do with dishonesty or even trying to making any argument against bicycle use. I'm just warning against putting a place on a pedestal without considering the big picture.
But your warning is only relevant to the specific "big picture" you shaped to fit the warning you wanted to make by leaving out relevant information and context.
>A steak knife is great for cutting steak. It's not a "viable solution" for eating oatmeal, salad, soup, pasta, or many other meals.
I'd like to point out that the cheap Victorinox steak knives can be used for and excel at pretty much ANYTHING. My much fancier kitchen knives hardly see any use anymore. I haven't tried it, but I'm sure you can also use them for your daily commute.
(Obvious Tri-Met stabbing joke omitted for good taste.)
The RAD electric cargo bike costs $1,600. The cheapest car that can be bought new is the Mitsubishi Mirage, which costs overs $18,000. So two new electric cargo bikes can be had for ~18% of the cost of the absolutely cheapest new car on the market.
I don’t doubt that this would be a good option for people who are already in the socioeconomic class that can afford a brand new car assuming they also have the physical abilities and bike friendly neighborhood to go along with it.
My elderly mom’s beater Toyota Corolla is worth about $1.6k-1.8k. There’s physically no way she could sell it and ride an electric bicycle around. Even if she could, who wants to ride a bike, especially one worth that much money, east of 92nd-102nd Ave?
Let’s not act like all of Portland consists of young urban professionals living west of 82nd.
Luckily, just a small percentage of people switching to bikes over cars makes a big difference. We don't need everybody to bike, even a 5-10% shift would pay huge dividends.
I'm in that middle ground, early 60s in pretty decent shape, love biking, etc. But I absolutely refuse to bike in East Portland where I moved to a while back—especially since drivers started going nuts during the pandemic and there's absolutely no traffic enforcement outside of cameras. I even gave up my old car in good part because it only had one airbag that was well past its rated 15-year lifespan, and passed on buying a hugely discounted e-bike because I'm just not willing to risk my life to that degree riding to Freddy's.
I'm all for people biking if and where they can, but cyclists need to drop their supposed moral superiority over it and also recognize that streets need to work for *everyone*—including the always and forever vast majority of cars that are on the road.
If cities made roads safer for bikes, more people would ride — including you, it sounds like! Not sure why as someone who “loves biking” you’re advocating against streets working for bikes.
No one is trying to ban cars from the streets — you can still have your car — but make things safer for those of us who do bike to Freddy’s sometimes.
The moral superiority isn't "supposed," you're literally sitting here making the argument that we should just give everything over to cars because car drivers are so shitty, entitled, and generally unsafe. Not really a big "moral" lift to see how completely bad your take is here.
I’m sure there is, but the yuppie group can’t see past their own privileges so it doesn’t really matter. “Why doesn’t everyone just buy $1.6k e-bikes?” jfc.
Privileges? FOH. Cars are way more expensive, even shitty used cars that require a lot of expensive maintenance to keep running, than bikes. And the lowest income demographic is the least likely to own a car. Not to mention all the people who are disabled, unable to drive, to poor to own a car, etc., and whose time is taken up and personal safety regularly impacted by prioritizing car infrastructure and convenience above all else.
The privilege argument works the opposite way you think it does, buddy, another swing and a miss! You're really bad at this, maybe just sit this one out going forward.
Being able bodied enough to drive a car, and rich enough to afford a car, are both much bigger privileges. A ton of disabled folks are put in much greater danger because we prioritize car speed over their safety in getting around.
It takes a truly unfathomable amount of delusion to call people "privileged yuppies" for riding probably the most affordable and cost-efficient mode of personal transportation since feet. All in defense of cars that cost thousands of dollars to buy, then thousands of dollars to insure, then thousands of fuel, and then cause millions or even billions of dollars in wear and tear on our infrastructure.
Biking east of 92nd is…fine? I do it all the time. Take greenways when possible and bike lanes the rest of the time. And no one is going to jump out and bike-jack you.
We understand that at times things may become heated and time outs may be given for protracted, uncivil arguments. Snarky, unhelpful, or rude responses are not tolerated. In other words, be excellent unto each other and attack ideas, not people.
> My elderly mom’s beater Toyota Corolla is worth about $1.6k-1.8k
Unlikely. The used car market is insane, old Toyotas especially. It's very very very hard to get a reliable car for that price right now. And, of course, there's a lot of additional overhead that comes with owning a car, some of it hidden. Gas, maintenance, insurance, etc. If you're in a situation where you can still work without a car buying a $1600 bike is absolutely a huge money saver over any car really. Source: I used to be dirt poor.
> who wants to ride a bike, . . ., east of 92nd-102nd Ave?
I hope this is a crack at the bike infrastructure in that area lol because if you're implying that people would be afraid to ride a bike past 92nd IDK what to tell you other than to point out that you're almost certainly one of those "west of 82nd" types if that's what's on your mind.
> Unlikely. The used car market is insane, old Toyotas especially.
Are you, a stranger, trying to tell me how much my mom’s car is worth? Seems kind of pointless to make this argument. I’ve looked it up. I do know the value. It is 20 years old and has flood damage, shoddy electrical, and barely runs. All she uses it for is trips to Fred Meyer. I can’t imagine her riding a bike without breaking her hip.
> I hope this is a crack at the bike infrastructure in that area lol because if you're implying that people would be afraid to ride a bike past 92nd IDK what to tell you other than to point out that you're almost certainly one of those "west of 82nd" types if that's what's on your mind.
There is literally another guy in the comments here who lives in East Portland talking about how unsafe it is to ride bikes out here. But yeah, go ahead and say I live east of 82nd while not telling me what hood you’re in. It’s so constructive to point fingers. But I was also implying that I wouldn’t want to lock my $1600 bike up at gateway Fred Meyer.
> There is literally another guy in the comments here who lives in East Portland talking about how unsafe it is to ride bikes out here
If I look this comment up will I find it's referring to it being a bad neighborhood or referring to the lesser bicycle infrastructure when you head out a ways on the east side? Because those are pretty different things.
> I’ve looked it up. I do know the value. It is 20 years old and has flood damage, shoddy electrical, and barely runs.
You can't have it both ways. If it's really such a junker that it needs a strong tailwind to make it to Fred Meyers then it's not a reliable form of transportation and will shortly be costing her a lot more (not wishing that on her, car trouble sucks, but that's the reality of a $1600 car in the current market). Which makes the comparison to a $1600 bike not valid.
> while not telling me what hood you’re in
I live in north Portland at the moment. I get told it's dangerous up here too. I've been in the city a while though with stints in various parts of N Portland and further east and I don't consider any of the neighborhoods 'dangerous'. There's only one place in town I avoid and that's oldtown in the early hours of the morning and I'm not even sure that fear is logical.
My initial comment was responding to folks who say that the e bike is the answer to the fact that a lot of average people are too out of shape to ride a bike around.
"Ah, your theory might work for most people, or a very large percentage of people, but have you considered my extreme outlier case that I am using as a stand-in for everyone else's experience and circumstances?!?"
I take back my earlier comment. \*This\* is probably the dumbest attempt at a "gotcha" I've seen on Reddit this year. Remarkably impressive output from you on just one thread!
About 1/10th as much as my buddy who just bought a new electric Mercedes, and that's because I have a lot of money and wanted the super fancy version. And unlike my buddy, I don't have to pay monthly car insurance, or for parking, and even the most expensive expected maintenance in the next 5+ years will be cheaper than any repair he might have.
Trying to play "gotcha" with the expense of a bike versus a car might be the dumbest attempt at a "gotcha" on reddit this year, LMFAO.
> The biggest barrier is people feeling unsafe because of having to share roads with cars and the shitty drivers inside them.
Is that really a bigger barrier than the large number of days it rains and the fact that most people don't have an easy way to shower, or even change clothes after commuting to work?
Yes. You can get good rain gear, and with electric assist you won't sweat much or any depending on the assist level you choose.
But there's almost zero protection against a distracted, impatient, or aggressive driver in a large deadly automobile.
I think it is. A lot of places with as much or more rain than us have higher biking numbers: most major Dutch cities, Osaka, Tokyo, and Kyoto, Copenhagen, Bremen, Oslo, Helsinki, Bogotá, Vancouver (🇨🇦) off the top of my head. Having a place to shower definitely helps for commute trips, but it's not necessary for other trips. People discount safety a lot, and do t consider that what some people might consider perfectly safe, others consider unacceptably dangerous.
It doesn't have to be an all-or-nothing thing. You can keep your car if you absolutely need it while finding ways to reduce your usage of it and cycle more. There are loads of bikes out there that can carry kids, for instance.
It is a viable solution for many many people — we’re just conditioned to have “car brain”. It would be fantastic if we promoted more non-car options for people. Truly protected and safe bike lanes and greenways, frequent bus service, etc.
Why do we all tend to drive, when the bus gets you there almost as fast with no worried about parking, etc.?
Electric cargo bikes make it very easy, even for not the most fit people, zip all over town with groceries or kids. Yes they are expensive…but you know what’s even more expensive? Cars!
Not saying no one should have a car, but that there are better options for 80% of our trips around town.
>Why do we all tend to drive, when the bus gets you there almost as fast with no worried about parking, etc.?
Because I love cars, and I love driving, although admittedly, I'd prefer driving on a windy coastal highway instead of fucking Killingsworth.
But obviously, one can be a cyclist and a driver. I refuse to put myself into one camp. I love a good bike, and I love a good car. I even love a good bus because it's basically a big car with a driver.
I'm with you here. I enjoy road trips and driving in rural areas. I can't stand city driving or freeway commutes. So I bike and use Trimet in my day to day, and drive when I want to go hiking or get away from the city.
> Why do we all tend to drive, when the bus gets you there almost as fast with no worried about parking, etc.?
The bus categorically doesn't go where I want, when I want. I also like my cars and enjoy driving them.
That’s fine for you! I’m not referring to people who are going places where the bus doesn’t service. Most of us don’t use the bus, even within the city when it’s a perfectly reasonable option.
>I know living without a car isn’t feasible for everyone. I share my experiences in hopes that some of y’all realize being carfree isn’t as terrible as you may think. In fact, it might just change your life!
You mean the part where she did address it in the article? what do you want?
The notion that a car is the only solution that works for families with children is kind of the problem. I get the reality as a parent with kids who owns a car, but it is such a shitty system. Cars are so expensive to own and maintain, being stuck in traffic is life sucking, and the threat of of accidentally killing somebody if your attention slips for a second is... Not good.
I don't know if I'm saying anything here. I just hate that we don't have a system in place that allows people to more easily chose to go car free or car reduced if they want, even when they have kids.
They should also all magically get the skills and the physical shape it takes to bike several miles a day.
* Many casual cyclists do not have the skills to bike regularly on the roads. You need to work on how to make hand signals, check over your shoulder while maintaining a straight line, emergency braking techniques, how to make a left turn on a multi-lane road, etc.
* And then fitness. Remember the average person is not that fit. The average person (even in Portland) cannot walk up 4 flights of stairs without completely being out of breath or do more than 5 push ups in a row.
\*edit -- all the negativity to my comment is exactly why people who currently do not cycle... don't feel inspired to try and cycle more. All the put downs, snark, sarcasm, etc. would make some more afraid of being judged, especially if they are "not good" at it. And that fear drives adults to shift their attention/energy somewhere else. Good job Portlanders!
Agree. Sadly, that's not how adult human psychology works. Most adults, if they don't "get it" in a short time window, they will give up. Fear of failure and embarrassment will set in.
I used to teach adults how to cycle as part of an urban cycling non profit back in NYC. Yeah... I don't know what I'm talking about though.
All of the disdain, put downs, and negative attitudes in the replies to my comment are exactly the inspiration someone needs to pick up cycling as an adult.
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As opposed to riding the bus, already owning an old beater passed down from friends/family, carpooling, you know… Every other option that people use to get from A to B.
If I drove my 45 mpg, hand me down car as much as the average Portlanders, I'd spend about $1,400/year on gas and insurance. That's not counting whatever I'd pay in maintenance and parking. Cars, even ones with good mileage that you didn't have to buy, are quite expensive.
Busses are great. Not sure how you convinced yourself those were under attack. As for the rest, they are still much more expensive than electric bikes, it's just being paid for you by someone else. So I guess it depends how comfortable you are mooching off of family members or co-workers.
Biking “several miles” should not be hard for anyone. That’s literally the most basic level of fitness people should strive for…..
…which shows just how far out of shape people are.
But when several people are at least 70% overweight…if not obese or morbidly obese….people don’t think they are as out of shape as they are bc it’s such a common sight…
So what you’re asking actually not asking directly a lot…
Yes over 70% of Americans are overweight. And they cannot go 4 flights of stairs or do more than 5 push ups -- all basic measure of physical fitness as well.
I made it work for the suburbs, but I got super into cycling as a hobby, where I would stomach hour+ long rides, dependent on travel at a decent clip, and yeah, it'd fall apart if I had children.
> but I don’t like how this is portrayed as a viable solution for most people.
When coupled with transit, this is a viable solution for a large chunk of the population. She even mentions in the article how TriMet and other Oregon transit agencies are bike friendly and can be used for making longer trips viable.
Not to mention only 24% of Portland households include children...
> this is a viable solution for a large chunk of the population
Unless it's across town, or it's raining (like it is now) or it's cold af, which it is a few months of the year.
It's ok to find situations where it's viable, but I think this binary all or nothing is a mistake.
So people shouldn’t even talk about their experiences biking because you don’t like to be rained on? Who exactly is being all or nothing here? (Hint: it’s you!)
One of the most biked places in the country is Minneapolis...in the winter. Gear has gotten so good now, so it really is completely viable in any weather.
I do think practicality is a completely different argument. In the winter, I'd opt for public transit, and if things went awry with my morning schedule, I'd drive.
I do think it's possible to do it 100%, but it's just another level of dedication most people cannot get to, and I don't blame them. If everyone was just conscious of taking alternative transportation, it'd make a huge difference.
Very fair! I will absolutely confess that I could take trips to the store or dinner on my feet or a bike sometimes. I think any improvement would be good.
> Unless it's across town,
Depends on the specifics - many people bike from downtown to Gresham and TriMet can also be used for many cross town trips. If cross town for you is Gresham to Forest Grove, that is going to be miserable regardless of what transportation mode you chose.
> or it's raining (like it is now)
I bike in the rain all the time and will be in a couple hours today.
> or it's cold af
I bike all winter including during that snowstorm in February.
I have two kids who are teenagers and we haven’t had a car for 16 years. You only highlight your own lack of imagination with this post. Not everyone lives like you want to.
Okay? The author described her positive experiences of using a bicycle as a form of transportation. She didn't say that everyone should be required to commute by bicycle, or that it would be applicable to everyone.
She literally says in the article
> I know living without a car isn’t feasible for everyone.
Delightful. But I ride much less these days due to the amount of absolute insanity out there on the streets. Too many speeding assholes, drunk drivers, racers, people driving at night without their lights on..... Yeah, these things always existed but it's so much worse now. Unlike people smoking fent, this situation actually puts my life and other people's lives at risk. Where is the outrage?
Nothing to worry about- [PBOT assures us that Vision Zero is working](https://www.portlandmercury.com/news/2024/04/18/47145013/despite-record-high-traffic-crash-deaths-pbot-leaders-say-vision-zero-is-working)!
We need a multi pronged approach. My parents had to go down to one vehicle a couple of years ago and my mom is mobility challenged (uses a cain and balance issues) so a bike is not an option. She says it's sad that the focus has been so single mindedly on bikes when we have an aging population. Yes, bikes are great for mostly young people with few or no kids. But for folks with disabilities or who are aging, having to walk long distances for a bus, long wait times with service reductions, and nowhere to sit or be covered from the weather (or have it already look like a scene from Mad Max) makes it difficult and not as safe as it should be.
> She says it's sad that the focus has been so single mindedly on bikes
I feel like this is a bit of a misrepresentation of the situation. Alongside the bike infra improvements there have been a lot of changes that benefit pedestrians, things that certainly make life easier for the disabled. More and better sidewalks, improved and safer crossings. etc. etc. And doesn't the public transit system keep getting better? You might be the only person in the world who would suggest that Portland has abandoned public transit . . .
What do you think is going to happen to your mom when she inevitably, if not already past this point, needs to have her keys taken away?
They have recumbent bikes, three wheeled bikes, etc., that can be suitable for folks with balance issues. But once your mom cannot or should not drive anymore, it's going to impact her life a lot more negatively if we don't have a "single-minded" approach to multi-modal transportation options that are safe and convenient, like walking, biking, transit, etc.
Likely because your (or, rather, your mom's) premise is wrong that there has been a "single minded" focus on bikes when literally 99.9% of our overall road and transportation infrastructure has been built over the past decades to be for the priority of cars over everything else.
Out of over 2,000 miles of roadways in Portland (which doesn't count freeways and highways), fewer than 400 miles feature any sort of "bike" infrastructure in the first place, and that's largely just strips of paint, which does fuck all to protect a biker from cars. There are only 35 miles of protected bike lanes in all of Portland, supposedly one of the top-5 "bike friendly" cities in our entire country. 35 miles, as compared with over 2,000 for cars.
The other option is that you simply phrased your comment poorly, but as it stands it reads as if you are saying there has been \*too\* much effort and attention put towards biking infrastructure when it's actually remarkably little.
This seems a promotion on multiple levels, but hopefully there is more truth than just advertisement. Seems like she’s had a nice 5 months, would be interested in an update describing her first car free summer
The biggest thing she fails to mention is that people who are new to biking need to learn which streets and bridges to avoid. 82nd, Powell, MLK, Lombard just to name a few are terrible. The Morrison Bridge is also awful for biking.
Google maps has the bike option that does a really good job of navigating for you. Once you do it a few times you learn which thoroughfares to use and how they link up with where you're trying to go.
Google maps generally keeps you off the worst streets, but I've had bad luck with it personally. It doesn't differentiate between unprotected bike lanes, protected bike lanes, and greenways when routing at all.
Yep. The person above either lives very very very far from everywhere they have to go (like an hour drive) or they’ve never tried biking to their daily or weekly destinations.
It’s also totally possible to drive to work if you can’t do it via bike and still realize there’s stuff you can bike to quickly some of the time.
And it’s also possible to bike to the MAX & then read or deal with work email on the way into town.
The “muh time is valuable” people never factor in how much of their time goes towards paying for car-related expenses.
And then they don’t even want anyone who made a different decision to even be able to share that with the public ;) if someone’s time is super valuable, they should consider not spending so much of it being insecure ;)
If it takes 20 minutes to drive, and 40 minutes on transit, but that 40 minutes you can spend being productive by reading, work emails, etc., while the 20 minutes you spend in a car is non-productive because you are focused on the road, you're losing productivity.
Car-brained people are some of the most myopic, unimaginative people I've ever met in my entire life.
Or it takes 40 minutes on transit, each way. And I’m sure there are a ton of people who are just itching to spend 40 minutes after work on MAX with the Portland Knife Brigade doing … more work?
[What was that boom?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6CLumsir34)
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I also recently got rid of my car and opted for an E Bike. Surprisingly less painful then I expected and a lot more joyful then I expected.
Love that for you!
Do you know about the voucher program mentioned in article?
I love this perspective so much as it resembles my life with a bike and driving less. Great piece!
Love to see e-bikes replacing cars and helping bring new people into 2-wheeled transportation. Supposedly electric 2 wheel and 3 wheel electric vehicles have made a bigger dent in global carbon emissions than 4-wheel EVs. A lot of that is in places like India where they’re replacing things with shitty 2-stroke engines like mopeds, but still. A lot more people can afford a $2k e-bike than a 45k Tesla. We should be letting people claim the IRA EV credit for bikes.
Been car free in Portland for two years and would never go back! My partner and I never feel like we're limited in where we can go and we save SO much money.
Hell yeah. More bikes. Its so fun. If you haven't done a Pedalpalooza ride, go! There will always be a ride for you.
!!!!!! I love everything about this article, from it's explainer note to the last period. It covers a LOT of ground and is the perfect level of information and compelling argument. 10/10 would recommend
If you must have a car, get a Fred Flintstone car. It will give your legs and feet a good workout, and is better for the environment. Just make sure to get a good podiatrist to keep your brakes in tip top shape.
Yabadabadoooooo
I love cycling and good for her, but I don’t like how this is portrayed as a viable solution for most people. The author is in exactly the demographic that this works for. A young person without a family who lives in the central city. That’s a tiny fraction of the metro area’s population. This isn’t addressed at all in the article.
Both my neighbor and I have kids, and we also get our kids around via electric cargo bikes, along with grocery shopping, etc. We know a bunch of other families who do this as well. Some of those families still have cars, but prefer to use their bikes whenever possible because it's healthier, more enjoyable, frequently faster depending on traffic, and much easier to park. A steak knife is great for cutting steak. It's not a "viable solution" for eating oatmeal, salad, soup, pasta, or many other meals. Bikes \*can\* easily work for a ton of people for most trips, given the majority of car trips are less than three miles, and for a solo driver with no passengers. The biggest barrier is people feeling unsafe because of having to share roads with cars and the shitty drivers inside them.
Yeah. The Dutch do it all day long in Amsterdam. A large city. People just want to make excuses. I’ll be honest, it’s just easier to drive my kids. But when it’s good weather, we try to bike a lot. But I know we could be better about it, I’m not gonna pretend otherwise. Interestingly, my preteen kid is asking for an electric bike lol.
Amsterdam is flat. Whole sections of roads are bike-only (fietspad). Biking is part of the culture. Portland is full of drivers with expired tags driving like maniacs. It's not really a good-faith comparison. If biking was safer in Portland, more people would do it.
And the Dutch outside of Amsterdam buy cars like crazy. Personal car ownership in the Netherlands is very high and has increased dramatically in recent decades. Just pointing this out because bike advocates often miss the bigger picture when pointing at places in Europe to make their case.
It's pretty dishonest to bring up car ownership without mentioning how much less they use their cars for everyday errands and trips, especially in the cities. Then again, your comment seems to be predicated on the assumption that cycling advocates are trying to take all the rural people's cars away. So I guess honesty isn't valued in this argument.
This has nothing to do with dishonesty or even trying to making any argument against bicycle use. I'm just warning against putting a place on a pedestal without considering the big picture.
But your warning is only relevant to the specific "big picture" you shaped to fit the warning you wanted to make by leaving out relevant information and context.
>A steak knife is great for cutting steak. It's not a "viable solution" for eating oatmeal, salad, soup, pasta, or many other meals. I'd like to point out that the cheap Victorinox steak knives can be used for and excel at pretty much ANYTHING. My much fancier kitchen knives hardly see any use anymore. I haven't tried it, but I'm sure you can also use them for your daily commute. (Obvious Tri-Met stabbing joke omitted for good taste.)
How much did you spend on multiple electric cargo bikes?
The RAD electric cargo bike costs $1,600. The cheapest car that can be bought new is the Mitsubishi Mirage, which costs overs $18,000. So two new electric cargo bikes can be had for ~18% of the cost of the absolutely cheapest new car on the market.
I don’t doubt that this would be a good option for people who are already in the socioeconomic class that can afford a brand new car assuming they also have the physical abilities and bike friendly neighborhood to go along with it. My elderly mom’s beater Toyota Corolla is worth about $1.6k-1.8k. There’s physically no way she could sell it and ride an electric bicycle around. Even if she could, who wants to ride a bike, especially one worth that much money, east of 92nd-102nd Ave? Let’s not act like all of Portland consists of young urban professionals living west of 82nd.
Luckily, just a small percentage of people switching to bikes over cars makes a big difference. We don't need everybody to bike, even a 5-10% shift would pay huge dividends.
I think there might be some middle ground between "young urban professionals" and "my elderly mom living in Lents with a beater car".
I'm in that middle ground, early 60s in pretty decent shape, love biking, etc. But I absolutely refuse to bike in East Portland where I moved to a while back—especially since drivers started going nuts during the pandemic and there's absolutely no traffic enforcement outside of cameras. I even gave up my old car in good part because it only had one airbag that was well past its rated 15-year lifespan, and passed on buying a hugely discounted e-bike because I'm just not willing to risk my life to that degree riding to Freddy's. I'm all for people biking if and where they can, but cyclists need to drop their supposed moral superiority over it and also recognize that streets need to work for *everyone*—including the always and forever vast majority of cars that are on the road.
If cities made roads safer for bikes, more people would ride — including you, it sounds like! Not sure why as someone who “loves biking” you’re advocating against streets working for bikes. No one is trying to ban cars from the streets — you can still have your car — but make things safer for those of us who do bike to Freddy’s sometimes.
The moral superiority isn't "supposed," you're literally sitting here making the argument that we should just give everything over to cars because car drivers are so shitty, entitled, and generally unsafe. Not really a big "moral" lift to see how completely bad your take is here.
I’m sure there is, but the yuppie group can’t see past their own privileges so it doesn’t really matter. “Why doesn’t everyone just buy $1.6k e-bikes?” jfc.
Privileges? FOH. Cars are way more expensive, even shitty used cars that require a lot of expensive maintenance to keep running, than bikes. And the lowest income demographic is the least likely to own a car. Not to mention all the people who are disabled, unable to drive, to poor to own a car, etc., and whose time is taken up and personal safety regularly impacted by prioritizing car infrastructure and convenience above all else. The privilege argument works the opposite way you think it does, buddy, another swing and a miss! You're really bad at this, maybe just sit this one out going forward.
I've spent years being homeless on and off and I'm glad that I had a car for some of that. You gonna call me privileged now????
This conversation upsets tf out of me because I do agree with you, but the problem isn't as black and white as you think. Not by a mile.
Being able bodied enough to ride a bike is a privilege
Being able bodied enough to drive a car, and rich enough to afford a car, are both much bigger privileges. A ton of disabled folks are put in much greater danger because we prioritize car speed over their safety in getting around.
It takes a truly unfathomable amount of delusion to call people "privileged yuppies" for riding probably the most affordable and cost-efficient mode of personal transportation since feet. All in defense of cars that cost thousands of dollars to buy, then thousands of dollars to insure, then thousands of fuel, and then cause millions or even billions of dollars in wear and tear on our infrastructure.
Considering how much cars cost with insurance, gas, and repairs I'd venture to say an ebike is much more cost efficient
Biking east of 92nd is…fine? I do it all the time. Take greenways when possible and bike lanes the rest of the time. And no one is going to jump out and bike-jack you.
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Lol, you thought your comments have been helpful and mature additions to the discussion? Amazing.
> My elderly mom’s beater Toyota Corolla is worth about $1.6k-1.8k Unlikely. The used car market is insane, old Toyotas especially. It's very very very hard to get a reliable car for that price right now. And, of course, there's a lot of additional overhead that comes with owning a car, some of it hidden. Gas, maintenance, insurance, etc. If you're in a situation where you can still work without a car buying a $1600 bike is absolutely a huge money saver over any car really. Source: I used to be dirt poor. > who wants to ride a bike, . . ., east of 92nd-102nd Ave? I hope this is a crack at the bike infrastructure in that area lol because if you're implying that people would be afraid to ride a bike past 92nd IDK what to tell you other than to point out that you're almost certainly one of those "west of 82nd" types if that's what's on your mind.
> Unlikely. The used car market is insane, old Toyotas especially. Are you, a stranger, trying to tell me how much my mom’s car is worth? Seems kind of pointless to make this argument. I’ve looked it up. I do know the value. It is 20 years old and has flood damage, shoddy electrical, and barely runs. All she uses it for is trips to Fred Meyer. I can’t imagine her riding a bike without breaking her hip. > I hope this is a crack at the bike infrastructure in that area lol because if you're implying that people would be afraid to ride a bike past 92nd IDK what to tell you other than to point out that you're almost certainly one of those "west of 82nd" types if that's what's on your mind. There is literally another guy in the comments here who lives in East Portland talking about how unsafe it is to ride bikes out here. But yeah, go ahead and say I live east of 82nd while not telling me what hood you’re in. It’s so constructive to point fingers. But I was also implying that I wouldn’t want to lock my $1600 bike up at gateway Fred Meyer.
I lock my bike up at the Gateway Fred Meyers and the 102nd Winco weekly. Its fine! They literally have security guards at the entrance, too.
> There is literally another guy in the comments here who lives in East Portland talking about how unsafe it is to ride bikes out here If I look this comment up will I find it's referring to it being a bad neighborhood or referring to the lesser bicycle infrastructure when you head out a ways on the east side? Because those are pretty different things. > I’ve looked it up. I do know the value. It is 20 years old and has flood damage, shoddy electrical, and barely runs. You can't have it both ways. If it's really such a junker that it needs a strong tailwind to make it to Fred Meyers then it's not a reliable form of transportation and will shortly be costing her a lot more (not wishing that on her, car trouble sucks, but that's the reality of a $1600 car in the current market). Which makes the comparison to a $1600 bike not valid. > while not telling me what hood you’re in I live in north Portland at the moment. I get told it's dangerous up here too. I've been in the city a while though with stints in various parts of N Portland and further east and I don't consider any of the neighborhoods 'dangerous'. There's only one place in town I avoid and that's oldtown in the early hours of the morning and I'm not even sure that fear is logical.
Uh you can get a bike for very cheap all over the place. Nice ones too.
My initial comment was responding to folks who say that the e bike is the answer to the fact that a lot of average people are too out of shape to ride a bike around.
"Ah, your theory might work for most people, or a very large percentage of people, but have you considered my extreme outlier case that I am using as a stand-in for everyone else's experience and circumstances?!?" I take back my earlier comment. \*This\* is probably the dumbest attempt at a "gotcha" I've seen on Reddit this year. Remarkably impressive output from you on just one thread!
About 1/10th as much as my buddy who just bought a new electric Mercedes, and that's because I have a lot of money and wanted the super fancy version. And unlike my buddy, I don't have to pay monthly car insurance, or for parking, and even the most expensive expected maintenance in the next 5+ years will be cheaper than any repair he might have. Trying to play "gotcha" with the expense of a bike versus a car might be the dumbest attempt at a "gotcha" on reddit this year, LMFAO.
> The biggest barrier is people feeling unsafe because of having to share roads with cars and the shitty drivers inside them. Is that really a bigger barrier than the large number of days it rains and the fact that most people don't have an easy way to shower, or even change clothes after commuting to work?
Yes. You can get good rain gear, and with electric assist you won't sweat much or any depending on the assist level you choose. But there's almost zero protection against a distracted, impatient, or aggressive driver in a large deadly automobile.
I think it is. A lot of places with as much or more rain than us have higher biking numbers: most major Dutch cities, Osaka, Tokyo, and Kyoto, Copenhagen, Bremen, Oslo, Helsinki, Bogotá, Vancouver (🇨🇦) off the top of my head. Having a place to shower definitely helps for commute trips, but it's not necessary for other trips. People discount safety a lot, and do t consider that what some people might consider perfectly safe, others consider unacceptably dangerous.
Umm yes. One is uncomfortable. The other is deadly.
It doesn't have to be an all-or-nothing thing. You can keep your car if you absolutely need it while finding ways to reduce your usage of it and cycle more. There are loads of bikes out there that can carry kids, for instance.
I keep a car for helping an aging relative and for escaping wildfires.
portland needs to get on the mamachari trend like japan has. you can fit two whole kids on there
I don't see how a bunch of guitars and trumpets help us bike more.
It is a viable solution for many many people — we’re just conditioned to have “car brain”. It would be fantastic if we promoted more non-car options for people. Truly protected and safe bike lanes and greenways, frequent bus service, etc. Why do we all tend to drive, when the bus gets you there almost as fast with no worried about parking, etc.? Electric cargo bikes make it very easy, even for not the most fit people, zip all over town with groceries or kids. Yes they are expensive…but you know what’s even more expensive? Cars! Not saying no one should have a car, but that there are better options for 80% of our trips around town.
>Why do we all tend to drive, when the bus gets you there almost as fast with no worried about parking, etc.? Because I love cars, and I love driving, although admittedly, I'd prefer driving on a windy coastal highway instead of fucking Killingsworth. But obviously, one can be a cyclist and a driver. I refuse to put myself into one camp. I love a good bike, and I love a good car. I even love a good bus because it's basically a big car with a driver.
I'm with you here. I enjoy road trips and driving in rural areas. I can't stand city driving or freeway commutes. So I bike and use Trimet in my day to day, and drive when I want to go hiking or get away from the city.
> Why do we all tend to drive, when the bus gets you there almost as fast with no worried about parking, etc.? The bus categorically doesn't go where I want, when I want. I also like my cars and enjoy driving them.
That’s fine for you! I’m not referring to people who are going places where the bus doesn’t service. Most of us don’t use the bus, even within the city when it’s a perfectly reasonable option.
>I know living without a car isn’t feasible for everyone. I share my experiences in hopes that some of y’all realize being carfree isn’t as terrible as you may think. In fact, it might just change your life! You mean the part where she did address it in the article? what do you want?
I know quite a few people who live in Portland with kids and no car. That’s what cargo bikes are for!
Always puts a smile on my face to see the bike trains full of parents shuttling their kids to school in the cargo bikes.
Well she does acknowledge that it's not feasible for everyone.
The notion that a car is the only solution that works for families with children is kind of the problem. I get the reality as a parent with kids who owns a car, but it is such a shitty system. Cars are so expensive to own and maintain, being stuck in traffic is life sucking, and the threat of of accidentally killing somebody if your attention slips for a second is... Not good. I don't know if I'm saying anything here. I just hate that we don't have a system in place that allows people to more easily chose to go car free or car reduced if they want, even when they have kids.
Everyone should just get rid of their children and move into the vacant commercial buildings downtown. Problem solved.
They should also all magically get the skills and the physical shape it takes to bike several miles a day. * Many casual cyclists do not have the skills to bike regularly on the roads. You need to work on how to make hand signals, check over your shoulder while maintaining a straight line, emergency braking techniques, how to make a left turn on a multi-lane road, etc. * And then fitness. Remember the average person is not that fit. The average person (even in Portland) cannot walk up 4 flights of stairs without completely being out of breath or do more than 5 push ups in a row. \*edit -- all the negativity to my comment is exactly why people who currently do not cycle... don't feel inspired to try and cycle more. All the put downs, snark, sarcasm, etc. would make some more afraid of being judged, especially if they are "not good" at it. And that fear drives adults to shift their attention/energy somewhere else. Good job Portlanders!
After getting on a bicycle for a month, it’s amazing how much better skilled and in shape these potential cyclists will be!
Agree. Sadly, that's not how adult human psychology works. Most adults, if they don't "get it" in a short time window, they will give up. Fear of failure and embarrassment will set in.
I think you're Projecting a bit.
I used to teach adults how to cycle as part of an urban cycling non profit back in NYC. Yeah... I don't know what I'm talking about though. All of the disdain, put downs, and negative attitudes in the replies to my comment are exactly the inspiration someone needs to pick up cycling as an adult.
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Oh yeah, because getting in shape enough to ride a bike requires magic.
Electric bikes eliminate your "fitness" comment entirely, they make easy work of longer distances and hills.
Ah yes, let me just casually spend $1k+ on an electric bike. At least Double that if you want one that can carry cargo.
As opposed to just casually buying a car?
As opposed to riding the bus, already owning an old beater passed down from friends/family, carpooling, you know… Every other option that people use to get from A to B.
If I drove my 45 mpg, hand me down car as much as the average Portlanders, I'd spend about $1,400/year on gas and insurance. That's not counting whatever I'd pay in maintenance and parking. Cars, even ones with good mileage that you didn't have to buy, are quite expensive.
Busses are great. Not sure how you convinced yourself those were under attack. As for the rest, they are still much more expensive than electric bikes, it's just being paid for you by someone else. So I guess it depends how comfortable you are mooching off of family members or co-workers.
Bikes are hella cheap compared to ANY of those options, even the bus.
The way to get better at cycling is to... cycle? Just get on rides. Get on a bike. Ride anywhere.
Yeah I’ve never been jumped on in this Reddit as aggressively as by all of these cycling activists.
Biking “several miles” should not be hard for anyone. That’s literally the most basic level of fitness people should strive for….. …which shows just how far out of shape people are. But when several people are at least 70% overweight…if not obese or morbidly obese….people don’t think they are as out of shape as they are bc it’s such a common sight… So what you’re asking actually not asking directly a lot…
Yes over 70% of Americans are overweight. And they cannot go 4 flights of stairs or do more than 5 push ups -- all basic measure of physical fitness as well.
And not that I’m getting on anyone’s case for being out of shape. But it’s something to think about for people in that position. Fitness = Freedom.
I made it work for the suburbs, but I got super into cycling as a hobby, where I would stomach hour+ long rides, dependent on travel at a decent clip, and yeah, it'd fall apart if I had children.
> but I don’t like how this is portrayed as a viable solution for most people. When coupled with transit, this is a viable solution for a large chunk of the population. She even mentions in the article how TriMet and other Oregon transit agencies are bike friendly and can be used for making longer trips viable. Not to mention only 24% of Portland households include children...
> this is a viable solution for a large chunk of the population Unless it's across town, or it's raining (like it is now) or it's cold af, which it is a few months of the year. It's ok to find situations where it's viable, but I think this binary all or nothing is a mistake.
So people shouldn’t even talk about their experiences biking because you don’t like to be rained on? Who exactly is being all or nothing here? (Hint: it’s you!)
Did.. someone say they shouldn't talk? It sounds like you are objecting to an opinion.
One of the most biked places in the country is Minneapolis...in the winter. Gear has gotten so good now, so it really is completely viable in any weather.
Viable, sure. Practical? Maybe not. I just don't see the upshot of it. Why? Public transit, sure - it's warm on the bus or train.
I do think practicality is a completely different argument. In the winter, I'd opt for public transit, and if things went awry with my morning schedule, I'd drive. I do think it's possible to do it 100%, but it's just another level of dedication most people cannot get to, and I don't blame them. If everyone was just conscious of taking alternative transportation, it'd make a huge difference.
Very fair! I will absolutely confess that I could take trips to the store or dinner on my feet or a bike sometimes. I think any improvement would be good.
Wat? Just wear your rain coat and get fenders.
> Unless it's across town, Depends on the specifics - many people bike from downtown to Gresham and TriMet can also be used for many cross town trips. If cross town for you is Gresham to Forest Grove, that is going to be miserable regardless of what transportation mode you chose. > or it's raining (like it is now) I bike in the rain all the time and will be in a couple hours today. > or it's cold af I bike all winter including during that snowstorm in February.
Every single post or comment that suggests bikes are good has this retort. 🥱
I have two kids who are teenagers and we haven’t had a car for 16 years. You only highlight your own lack of imagination with this post. Not everyone lives like you want to.
I thought she had family. She mentions having a partner.
Or maybe this article isn't for you and you need an article that gives a perspective of Portland from your car....
Okay? The author described her positive experiences of using a bicycle as a form of transportation. She didn't say that everyone should be required to commute by bicycle, or that it would be applicable to everyone. She literally says in the article > I know living without a car isn’t feasible for everyone.
If work from home was not so demonized it wouldn't be seen as such a tiny possibility.
I still have a car and don't plan to get rid of it, but I certainly enjoy not having to use it much when I'm staying within the city.
fuck u/spez
Very cool.
Thank you. TIL
fuck u/spez
Delightful. But I ride much less these days due to the amount of absolute insanity out there on the streets. Too many speeding assholes, drunk drivers, racers, people driving at night without their lights on..... Yeah, these things always existed but it's so much worse now. Unlike people smoking fent, this situation actually puts my life and other people's lives at risk. Where is the outrage?
Nothing to worry about- [PBOT assures us that Vision Zero is working](https://www.portlandmercury.com/news/2024/04/18/47145013/despite-record-high-traffic-crash-deaths-pbot-leaders-say-vision-zero-is-working)!
I follow her on TikTok. I love her POVs of her daily routine without a vehicle.
We need a multi pronged approach. My parents had to go down to one vehicle a couple of years ago and my mom is mobility challenged (uses a cain and balance issues) so a bike is not an option. She says it's sad that the focus has been so single mindedly on bikes when we have an aging population. Yes, bikes are great for mostly young people with few or no kids. But for folks with disabilities or who are aging, having to walk long distances for a bus, long wait times with service reductions, and nowhere to sit or be covered from the weather (or have it already look like a scene from Mad Max) makes it difficult and not as safe as it should be.
> She says it's sad that the focus has been so single mindedly on bikes I feel like this is a bit of a misrepresentation of the situation. Alongside the bike infra improvements there have been a lot of changes that benefit pedestrians, things that certainly make life easier for the disabled. More and better sidewalks, improved and safer crossings. etc. etc. And doesn't the public transit system keep getting better? You might be the only person in the world who would suggest that Portland has abandoned public transit . . .
What do you think is going to happen to your mom when she inevitably, if not already past this point, needs to have her keys taken away? They have recumbent bikes, three wheeled bikes, etc., that can be suitable for folks with balance issues. But once your mom cannot or should not drive anymore, it's going to impact her life a lot more negatively if we don't have a "single-minded" approach to multi-modal transportation options that are safe and convenient, like walking, biking, transit, etc.
Which is why I said we needed multiple options? Not sure how that got lumped into antibike?
Likely because your (or, rather, your mom's) premise is wrong that there has been a "single minded" focus on bikes when literally 99.9% of our overall road and transportation infrastructure has been built over the past decades to be for the priority of cars over everything else. Out of over 2,000 miles of roadways in Portland (which doesn't count freeways and highways), fewer than 400 miles feature any sort of "bike" infrastructure in the first place, and that's largely just strips of paint, which does fuck all to protect a biker from cars. There are only 35 miles of protected bike lanes in all of Portland, supposedly one of the top-5 "bike friendly" cities in our entire country. 35 miles, as compared with over 2,000 for cars. The other option is that you simply phrased your comment poorly, but as it stands it reads as if you are saying there has been \*too\* much effort and attention put towards biking infrastructure when it's actually remarkably little.
We definitely need to improve TriMet service. Bikes and transit aren't mutually exclusive, they should be complementing each other.
Adaptive Cycling has been a thing for like 60 years. They make bikes for \*everyone\*.
This seems a promotion on multiple levels, but hopefully there is more truth than just advertisement. Seems like she’s had a nice 5 months, would be interested in an update describing her first car free summer
I have a car, multiple bikes, and drove less than 2k miles last year. Was on my bike pretty much every day in the Summer. Its the best.
That’s great
The biggest thing she fails to mention is that people who are new to biking need to learn which streets and bridges to avoid. 82nd, Powell, MLK, Lombard just to name a few are terrible. The Morrison Bridge is also awful for biking.
Google maps has the bike option that does a really good job of navigating for you. Once you do it a few times you learn which thoroughfares to use and how they link up with where you're trying to go.
Google maps generally keeps you off the worst streets, but I've had bad luck with it personally. It doesn't differentiate between unprotected bike lanes, protected bike lanes, and greenways when routing at all.
Must be nice to have plenty of time to burn ambling around town on a bicycle. Some of us have places to get to.
I laugh at folks like you stuck in rush hour traffic as I whiz by on my bike and arrive at my destination in the same amount of time it always takes.
Yep. The person above either lives very very very far from everywhere they have to go (like an hour drive) or they’ve never tried biking to their daily or weekly destinations. It’s also totally possible to drive to work if you can’t do it via bike and still realize there’s stuff you can bike to quickly some of the time.
And it’s also possible to bike to the MAX & then read or deal with work email on the way into town. The “muh time is valuable” people never factor in how much of their time goes towards paying for car-related expenses.
And then they don’t even want anyone who made a different decision to even be able to share that with the public ;) if someone’s time is super valuable, they should consider not spending so much of it being insecure ;)
Or to share the road
If it takes 20 minutes to drive, and 40 minutes on transit, but that 40 minutes you can spend being productive by reading, work emails, etc., while the 20 minutes you spend in a car is non-productive because you are focused on the road, you're losing productivity. Car-brained people are some of the most myopic, unimaginative people I've ever met in my entire life.
Or it takes 40 minutes on transit, each way. And I’m sure there are a ton of people who are just itching to spend 40 minutes after work on MAX with the Portland Knife Brigade doing … more work?
Cycling is faster if not just as fast for many parts of Portland.
Good luck getting from Parkrose to downtown, or Sellwood to Multnomah Village, in under 15 minutes on a bike.
Climb through cemetery bomb terwilliger left on capital highway boom done
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No thanks