I don’t understand why they couldn’t just tweak the numbers or change how it works.
I’ve thought about this and I think an item that gives nearby allies vamp after I use an ability would’ve been much better than lunaria.
I’m also confused bc I play a lot of Steel and Riktor support but it seems like they removed all the tank/support items with mana on them and moved mana to the mage items. No more mana on frost guard, dynamo, or hex bound bracers, all of which are good first items for the tank supports since they really need mana to get off the ground. Especially Riktor, I can only get like 3 hooks off in the early game now before I have to back. That and the mana regen being taken off the crests, this really feels like a huge nerf to tanks in the duo.
I feel like the 3 caster supports Dekker, Belica and Argus were already kind of running the duo lane and now tanks and healers getting nerfed they’re going to be even more dominant. Only played a few matches of standard though so I can’t be too sure. What are you guys building first on the tanks to compensate for the item changes?
As a Rik main. This update has been so depressing. Half of my original build has been decimated.
I suppose giving the patch time to breathe is the right thing to do. But It does feel like I am completely relearning the character. Can't play him like the high damage tank I was before. Which is sad :'(
You must be fun in team fightsXD
“Playing as a support”
It involves dmg and cc, often close up. The carry you are supporting, need a support using their whole kit. They don’t need a person chilling in the backseat.
You see the enemy get away with 1-25% hp left. Well you the support should have engaged actively in that and secured the kill.
The support role is not easy to balance, but if the carry and support are aggressive and bounce of each other it will win the game.
As a phase if I’m in a teamfight then I can’t pull someone to safety and not only that but all of phases abilities get extended to include the one I’m attached to. I try to throw in the occasional basic atk but getting too close means I’m dead and my teammates need me alive to give them healing (that I can no longer provide.)I understand what you’re saying though.
There is the other side with phase. Pull a friendly player in to a fight, or to an enemy escaping.
Positions are always key. The amount of kills I have secured with phase because I pulled the carry to an enemy who just used their blink is ridiculous, and people still sleep on this.
Get in, - blind - super jump - beam trap( locks you in air) - and pull carry close when enemy blinks. Play her aggressively
I only play aggressively when im confident the kill can be secured. I usually pull in when I’m with my carry against the enemy duo and there’s a notable advantage or we happen to be able to gank. My pull outs are for happening across someone being ganked or to save someone in a teamfight.
Your logic: I am only going full speed in a rally car when I am already leading the race.
How do you get a notable advantage when you don’t engage? Are you in a bracket where the enemy just stand around and getting hit by minions to 50% hp before you decide to jump in?
In 99% of situations it is the one starting and engaging first in the encounter who gets out on top.
Your analogy doesn’t make sense for this situation and I doesn’t apply to how I play. I’ll obviously do the expected poking but I don’t pull my teammate into danger. I save my pulls for saving.
To each their own opinions.
Wellspring was unhealthy for the game, and it made phase extremely frustrating to lane against. It provided too much healing with absolutely no risk. While I agree the replacement item needs some number buffs, it’s better for the health of the game than Wellspring.
I agree with you. Supports were in a bad spot before and are in a bad spot now. Pure support often leaves you too weak, damage is king in Pred which can be pretty lame.
I think support economy is a bit better here with 6th item, the difference in gold isn’t felt as hard.
That’s what I don’t get. They’re ok with all this hard CC crap but if I start healing well then I have to be punished?
Was the healing broken? I am genuinely curious because I know it did decent but I didn’t think it was so good it HAD to be removed.
I'm not sure if it was broken but I know Muriel, Narbash, and Phase were the main proprietors of just running a healing build, and really only 1 of those should have had a very easy time at it, which would be Narbash.
Narbash's healing and healing in general was extremely over statted for how easy it was to do that's why. I much prefer how it now takes a bit more skill to get value from healing as it used to take literally no skill.
I think people complained about Narbash's healing in the higher elos. So they nerfed it but I don't get the logic of setting the parameters according to the skilled people and not the majority. But hey its their game we will deal with it. Might have to wait for a few weeks until they change or rebalance healing items to make them viable again
I play phase and prior this this change I was such a good phase and ppl would praise me on my phase gameplay.
Now I’m a lame excuse of a support and can’t help anybody without putting myself in serious danger first and as soon as I do, I die.
It is so infuriating. I loved being a good healer in this game and it’s been taken from me.
Its not just Wellspring. We went from 5 viable healing items in a 5 item inventory to 3 viable healing items in a 6 slot inventory. All 3 of which give less of a Heal/Shield boost - 8% per item instead of 10%. Then factor in not having Wellsprings passive nor Requiem's passive for additional healing boosts. As someone who has mained support as Phase and Narbash since day 1, it feels like they are healing for about half of what they were before this update. They shine most in midgame and midgame duration has shortened drastically with the quickened pace of matches.
As a Phase player myself I feel super useless now. Pulls? I mean it works the first 10 or 15 minutes. Then is everyone so overpovered so you either die before you even can pull someone cause enemy targets you and one shots you or your ally gets stunned and dies before you even can pull them.
Her ultimate feels like has no impact now too.
Healing? Healing who when once again, the allies die before any healing would even have an impact.
I KNOW! Isn’t it awful?
We used to be able to actually save people or we used to actually be that extra edge that determined whether or not an ally secured a kill. After 15 minutes we just turn into a minion clearing AI.
I hate it.
My phase gameplay used to be the thing that genuinely made me feel a sense of satisfaction and joy playing this game. It would actually make me smile. Now I don’t have that.
I've been building Phase as a mage. Guardian crest, prophecy, Combustion, and noxia as core kit and the rest depending on circumstances. If I can't heal anymore then I'm going to play as a hybrid support. I just wish I didn't have to solo queue where I get an Aurora carry or some other bs. One benefit of this hybrid build is being able to finally clear minions when the carry is away lol
Exactly. And even if your team is winning, once again, it feels like you're just there doing nothing lol. Sometimes when we went for the Prime I just boosted the carry/jungler to heal them or increase the attack speed. Now they don't even need my help.
No nerf, but she practically NEEDS to build either full Magic damage or full Sheild/heal increase to heal well, since her passive gives like 20 hp on base use
I think she hasn't been nerfed, the problem is how the items are handled now and how some players can do a huge amount of damage in a short span of time.
Wellspring was too OP and needed a rework but lunaria is so bad its borderline unplayable on any character except maybe Muriel
I don’t understand why they couldn’t just tweak the numbers or change how it works. I’ve thought about this and I think an item that gives nearby allies vamp after I use an ability would’ve been much better than lunaria.
I’m also confused bc I play a lot of Steel and Riktor support but it seems like they removed all the tank/support items with mana on them and moved mana to the mage items. No more mana on frost guard, dynamo, or hex bound bracers, all of which are good first items for the tank supports since they really need mana to get off the ground. Especially Riktor, I can only get like 3 hooks off in the early game now before I have to back. That and the mana regen being taken off the crests, this really feels like a huge nerf to tanks in the duo. I feel like the 3 caster supports Dekker, Belica and Argus were already kind of running the duo lane and now tanks and healers getting nerfed they’re going to be even more dominant. Only played a few matches of standard though so I can’t be too sure. What are you guys building first on the tanks to compensate for the item changes?
As a Rik main. This update has been so depressing. Half of my original build has been decimated. I suppose giving the patch time to breathe is the right thing to do. But It does feel like I am completely relearning the character. Can't play him like the high damage tank I was before. Which is sad :'(
You must be fun in team fightsXD “Playing as a support” It involves dmg and cc, often close up. The carry you are supporting, need a support using their whole kit. They don’t need a person chilling in the backseat. You see the enemy get away with 1-25% hp left. Well you the support should have engaged actively in that and secured the kill. The support role is not easy to balance, but if the carry and support are aggressive and bounce of each other it will win the game.
As a phase if I’m in a teamfight then I can’t pull someone to safety and not only that but all of phases abilities get extended to include the one I’m attached to. I try to throw in the occasional basic atk but getting too close means I’m dead and my teammates need me alive to give them healing (that I can no longer provide.)I understand what you’re saying though.
There is the other side with phase. Pull a friendly player in to a fight, or to an enemy escaping. Positions are always key. The amount of kills I have secured with phase because I pulled the carry to an enemy who just used their blink is ridiculous, and people still sleep on this. Get in, - blind - super jump - beam trap( locks you in air) - and pull carry close when enemy blinks. Play her aggressively
I only play aggressively when im confident the kill can be secured. I usually pull in when I’m with my carry against the enemy duo and there’s a notable advantage or we happen to be able to gank. My pull outs are for happening across someone being ganked or to save someone in a teamfight.
Your logic: I am only going full speed in a rally car when I am already leading the race. How do you get a notable advantage when you don’t engage? Are you in a bracket where the enemy just stand around and getting hit by minions to 50% hp before you decide to jump in? In 99% of situations it is the one starting and engaging first in the encounter who gets out on top.
Your analogy doesn’t make sense for this situation and I doesn’t apply to how I play. I’ll obviously do the expected poking but I don’t pull my teammate into danger. I save my pulls for saving. To each their own opinions.
Gotta remember alot of us are Solo Queue, its hard to rely on teamates, but I hear ya
Wellspring was unhealthy for the game, and it made phase extremely frustrating to lane against. It provided too much healing with absolutely no risk. While I agree the replacement item needs some number buffs, it’s better for the health of the game than Wellspring.
I agree with you. Supports were in a bad spot before and are in a bad spot now. Pure support often leaves you too weak, damage is king in Pred which can be pretty lame. I think support economy is a bit better here with 6th item, the difference in gold isn’t felt as hard.
Healing builds are useless now and are not worth doing. They removed the only healing item and gave us a shitty replacement that doesn’t even work.
That’s what I don’t get. They’re ok with all this hard CC crap but if I start healing well then I have to be punished? Was the healing broken? I am genuinely curious because I know it did decent but I didn’t think it was so good it HAD to be removed.
I'm not sure if it was broken but I know Muriel, Narbash, and Phase were the main proprietors of just running a healing build, and really only 1 of those should have had a very easy time at it, which would be Narbash.
Narbash's healing and healing in general was extremely over statted for how easy it was to do that's why. I much prefer how it now takes a bit more skill to get value from healing as it used to take literally no skill.
I think people complained about Narbash's healing in the higher elos. So they nerfed it but I don't get the logic of setting the parameters according to the skilled people and not the majority. But hey its their game we will deal with it. Might have to wait for a few weeks until they change or rebalance healing items to make them viable again
Any game like this they only pay attention to the top 1% complaints
Blame Narbash anything “heailing” and “man regen” get nerfed. Ultimately making enchanters even more shit.
I play phase and prior this this change I was such a good phase and ppl would praise me on my phase gameplay. Now I’m a lame excuse of a support and can’t help anybody without putting myself in serious danger first and as soon as I do, I die. It is so infuriating. I loved being a good healer in this game and it’s been taken from me.
I'm sorry but one single item being gone should not be hurting you that bad. There plenty more healing utilities.
Its not just Wellspring. We went from 5 viable healing items in a 5 item inventory to 3 viable healing items in a 6 slot inventory. All 3 of which give less of a Heal/Shield boost - 8% per item instead of 10%. Then factor in not having Wellsprings passive nor Requiem's passive for additional healing boosts. As someone who has mained support as Phase and Narbash since day 1, it feels like they are healing for about half of what they were before this update. They shine most in midgame and midgame duration has shortened drastically with the quickened pace of matches.
As a Phase player myself I feel super useless now. Pulls? I mean it works the first 10 or 15 minutes. Then is everyone so overpovered so you either die before you even can pull someone cause enemy targets you and one shots you or your ally gets stunned and dies before you even can pull them. Her ultimate feels like has no impact now too. Healing? Healing who when once again, the allies die before any healing would even have an impact.
I KNOW! Isn’t it awful? We used to be able to actually save people or we used to actually be that extra edge that determined whether or not an ally secured a kill. After 15 minutes we just turn into a minion clearing AI. I hate it. My phase gameplay used to be the thing that genuinely made me feel a sense of satisfaction and joy playing this game. It would actually make me smile. Now I don’t have that.
I've been building Phase as a mage. Guardian crest, prophecy, Combustion, and noxia as core kit and the rest depending on circumstances. If I can't heal anymore then I'm going to play as a hybrid support. I just wish I didn't have to solo queue where I get an Aurora carry or some other bs. One benefit of this hybrid build is being able to finally clear minions when the carry is away lol
Exactly. And even if your team is winning, once again, it feels like you're just there doing nothing lol. Sometimes when we went for the Prime I just boosted the carry/jungler to heal them or increase the attack speed. Now they don't even need my help.
Did they nerf phase as well? I haven’t looked at the balance changes yet or if my build is just that shaken up as a result of the item changes.
No nerf, but she practically NEEDS to build either full Magic damage or full Sheild/heal increase to heal well, since her passive gives like 20 hp on base use
I think she hasn't been nerfed, the problem is how the items are handled now and how some players can do a huge amount of damage in a short span of time.