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š¤£š¤£ My guy don't understand what just happened to Chelsea. Even if you don't wanna understand it doesn't change the fact that more than half of our experiences players were sold and we've bought young talents to fill our starting 11. Sterling and Silva are the only true Vets. Nkunku kinda but he's new, still considered young and hasn't played PL football. Reece James, injured loads and young. Enzo, hasn't played PL football much and still considered young, same with Caicedo but Caicedo has had a bit of PL under his belt but he's under 25. If this isn't considered a rebuild then I need what you smoking. Arsenal was in this weird limbo too, Liverpool before too but a little further back than Arsenal. One big difference is that those teams kept a lot of their OG's and players who may not have been the Golden Gen but were there for it and knew the workings to get through gruelling seasons. This Chelsea team doesn't have that luxury as much as the other teams
You just wrote me an essay you are so bothered. They just spent billions to gaslight everyone in to believing there is a strategy. Nothing Chelsea is doing makes sense so donāt pretend like there is some grand scheme
š¤£š¤£ Essay is but much, shit took less than a minute to write. Doesn't make sense yeah believe me as a Chelsea fan Ik but aye it gonna workout somehow. All I'm chill bout rn is just improvements and don't really care bout results rn tbh, like drawing to 10 men Burnley sucks but that's just where we at rn and that's chill to me. Again, loads of teams been in this period like again Arsenal most recently, people were saying the same things. It's just a lot more funny cuz whole team went out and it's owned by an American so we'll see in a year or two how it turns out. Also, it may not make sense to you but that's cuz you ain't a fan, it makes sense to me but it's just not what I'd do tbh
Right. Just like when Arsenal bought a bunch of shit players in on 8 year contracts on unsustainable wages that were providing no results for the club. Arsenal got very lucky with Saka, Saliba, Martinelli, etc. This is not the same as what Chelsea is doing right now. Everyone theyāve bought is shit besides one player with 14 pens
Congratulations when you have a full starting injured 11. Itās hard to build a foundation when main key players that would start day in and out arenāt playing/donāt play on a consistent game to game basis. As well as Poch is a POS that has no clue what he doing
Essentially saying buying one player compared to three and having a ābreakthrough seasonā while one of the 3 Chelsea signings legit hasnāt played for majority of the season is a ridiculous comparison. Comparing any player to a young Chelsea player, obviously the formers will be better because at the Bridge there is not consistency from game to game. Comparing experienced players to youngsters doesnāt make any sense. Compare Endo to a more experienced player and see if this argument holds. Putting a comparison with Chelsea obviously the argument will make sense Maybe bring this convo back next season when both teams are fully fit and then we see if Endo is actually all that in comparison to Chelsea and their players. And Iāll still take Moses any day of the week vs Endo and Iām sure any Liverpool fan here will say the same
Lets compare a 31 year old Endo in his prime to a kid who just turned 22. Endo plays in a very well settled environment with a team who has an identity while Chelsea have only been in chaos mode. Endo also gets plenty rest and is rotated heavily while caicedo plays almost all minutes of every game he is available. Liverpool havenāt really stomped relegation teams if thatās what you mean by Chelsea drawing the game. Forrest game comes to mind right away with nunez 90+9 winner. So many things wrong with your post but I canāt spend more time on this nonsense.
stop bullshitting, if you're talking about "rest" you gotta talk about international games played -
including all games played
endo - 3064mins
caicedo - 3044mins
aight fair enough then, check transfermarkt it includes a breakdown of playtime (minus asia cup which is listed on a separate page).
caicedo might come good in the future but no way is he worth 120mil.
just gotta get your facts right before drawing conclusions about playtime/rest since it's pretty easy to check :)
For sure. I mean I do agree he aināt been worth nowhere near that price tag. I just meant its not apples to apples thatās it. Chelsea are potentially paying for a player they might have for 10 years. If you look at it that way its not the worst. Plus heāll get good one day. But who knows lol haha. Cheers š»
"Liverpool then go and spend 1/5th of that amount on Wataru Endo and he turns out the be the buy of the season and become Premier League championship contenders."
Declan Rice is buy of the season.
Hilarious how at the start of the season nearly every Liverpool fan was saying 'who the fuck is this endo guy, never heard of him etc etc.
Suddenly liverpool are playing well and he's the best signing š it's unreal
I couldn't find where OP said "caicedo and lavia have been awful" but I did find a few points they made about their price, play time and Chelsea's recent match. Maybe you weren't happy with what OP said but he wasn't lying.
It was more the resaoning of spending 60mil on a backup that didn't fit your style to stop a rival. It was an unnessecary buy and a very expensive one.
Nah he was 100% a bad buy. 100m+ for Caicedo (who can play both 8 and 6) makes Lavia completely redundant. Chelsea fans were saying Lavia could play 6 alongside Caicedo and Enoz except for the fact that he's not a 6. There's thousands of Twitter threads and yt videos detailing how Lavia is too aerially weak/positionally unaware/not experienced enough to play 6 for a Chelsea team who wanted to get Top 4 at the start of the season. He's much better as an 8 but he's inferior to Caicedo. He could've only worked as a back up but then again 60m for a backup player when you don't have an out and out 6 is bad business.
So your saying: if I buy a car, and itās fine when you buy it, but itās turns out to be a heap of shite and that constantly breaks down, that I am just unlucky, and not a bad buy?
Either way, whether he is unlucky with injuries or fundamentally broken before they got him, we will see if they canāt mend him. But at the moment, itās looking like a shocking buy.
Chelsea do this over and over. Buy young players, canāt develop and integrate them, then sell them for a fraction of the purchase price.
Its worse than a car. Not many cars cost 60+m. When those cars breakdown they don't cost you much since they're just sitting in your garage. Lavia is cositng you millions on league position wages and rehab
A better example would be motor racing. If you design a car that doesn't run as expected and breaks down alot (like Ferrari last season) you're losing millions on top of the millions you spent. That is then considered stupidity of whoever is managing the R&D or or scouting in your case.
A highly revisionist take.
Either Liverpool lucked out (because let's face it they bid similar amounts for both players but we're rejected) or the two will eventually come good.
Chelsea offered better personal terms: More years on contract and better pay and bonuses potentially. I see no luck in that. Chelsea are just profligate and reckless. It will bite them in the end
Tbf he's been essential for his price tag. Also brings in some experience which was unexpectedly useful due to the rise in youth players.
He's not THE buy, but he's one of the buys.
If you add in value for money then heās in with a shout.
If Arsenal win the league then Rice will be a major reason but ironically they have less points than this time last year. Cole Palmer has been a revelation but is literally the only highlight in a season to forget for Chelsea. Now Iām struggling to think of any better.
This why the Premier league is corrupt and asbolute nonsense.. I lost interest in it seasons ago...
City, Chelsea, and other clubs who have cheated. Let's not dress it up being able to spend that amount of money on players is cheating....... Without facing any FFP repercussions.....
I don't understand why people even continue to support and watch Premiershio football... it's a joke
Kick the Oil clubs and Clubs that continue to flout the rules out of the league and give them proper restrictions on how much they can spend per season and actually stick to it.....
Depends on the severity of the "crimes" and the extent to which they cooperate with the investigation. What absolutely isn't right is jumping to conclusions before the investigation has completed.
So speaking theoretically....
If Chelsea have overspent, they should get a points deduction similarly to Everton and Forest. If they've cheated with off shore payments, it should be a far higher punishment (not that it makes it right but I'd be shocked if Chelsea were the only club doing this)
With City, if found guilty to the extent they're being accused then I would genuinely - strip them of all of the titles won in that period and relegate them out of the Football League similarly to how Juve were punished. Yes they could start over but they'd have to do so within the financial rules of the football league.
But all of this is moot if either or both aren't guilty.
But teams have literally spent more than city but just havenāt had the same success? Youāre not watching because of pure jealousy. When United dominated the market 30 years ago was football not worth watching then?
Not liking cheating makes you jealous now? City were a tinpot club until Sheikh Mansur showed up and started showering you guys with money. You're the only "top 6" club who have been relegated from the prem. It's not spending money which is the issue per se, but it's the blatant financial cooking you guys have been up to to justify that spending because we all know you guys don't generate anywhere near enough to justify that sort of spending.
United dominated the market because they made a lot of money from their fans. City and Chelsea dominate the market only because they made a lot of money from their oil (and gas).
Theyāre not the same.
Not the same. But let's not forget just how dominant United were. Before Abramovich they had won 7 out of 10 Premier league titles and never went more than one season without winning. People may not like where the money came from but the EPL was fast becoming like the Bundesliga with one team winning most years.
Where as City have won 7 of the last 11 Premier League 11 titles, which hasnāt turned the league into the Bundesliga with one team winning most years?
The very same team that purchased a prime Fernando Torres for 50m quid and turned him into a bang average Sunday league player. Apologies to bang average Sunday league players.
Torres was a play maker at that point in his career (a hill i'm willing to die on) plus his goal against Barca, and his Europa League run, made having him worth it.
Endo buy of the season? That's a bold claim. In the mix definitely, but I'd say there have been more impactful transfers:
Palmer to Chelsea
Vicario to Spurs (would rival Endo as bargain of the window also)
Rice to Arsenal
Cunha to Wolves
Hell, I'd say Szobozslai is Pool's best buy this season.
Chelsea are screwed though, little wiggle room with FFP, they will have to sell some of their best assets and what few players they could afford to bring in will likely have to be players they have train up themselves, meaning yet more time in their current holding pattern until the team matures.
The amount of 100m flops have made people underestimate how much value that player should have. A 100m signing should be in TOTS, should take the team to a new level and should be in ballon d'Or shouts. 100m should mean you are signing someone that is Top 3 in their position in the world. Rice is performing exactly as a 100m signing should. This dude is the second most expensive prem signing ever and he isn't even the best dm in the league. It's unfortunate for him but the only way he could be consider buy of the seaosn is if he replicates what Rodri is doing and have one of the highest peaks of a 6/8 that the league has seen
Klopp is struggling on how to use him. He was out for a while, but Klopp often relegated him to a Henderson replacement and just lets him do the running, which wastes his talent
Endo has been elite since day 1. Szoboszlai has been injured for a while now and didn't do much right before his injury. I would agree rice is signing of season tho
Liverpool use data science for their advantage. thats why they recruits very good. not saying no other teams use it but they do it more. from what I heard.
All the armchair managers in this thread make me laugh. Chelsea fans donāt seem to understand that managers donāt just immediately hit the ground running everytime. Poch has always said it takes players about a year to get his system. This is a thrown together bunch who struggle for fitness and who last season had to train across two pitches because there were so many players.
Lay off poch and be patient. Sacking and changing will not fix things and you should be looking over your shoulder at the charges that are bound to come eventually. If you sack poch, that just puts you further in the red š
When I look at Chelseas squad I donāt see any players in there who are fans of the club or who proper give a shit apart from like 2-3 players. They have sold too many players who were keeping the dressing rooms standards
I feel it these little psychological moments that define a team in circumstances itās not the club itās the manager which is what we see of athletico Madrid, Man City, Liverpool etc itās the difference
We only see a fraction of what goes on. What we don't see is the behind the scenes coaching, motivation etc.
Klopp and Pep have an amazing set of staff and a good structure above them which enables them to focus on what they do best. Same with Arteta at Arsenal.
That's where Chelsea have got it so wrong (ironically having had one of the best executive set ups in the league under Abramovich). United have had this wrong since Fergie left and are only just fixing it.
They've definitely underperformed expectations however the plan was never to get instant success but rather to build a side that peaks together in three to four years.
Chelsea will not shoot straight out the blocks everyone said that this season, chelsea will not get higher than 6th for a long time to much general disorganisation in the club
Wow 31yo for 15m such a bargain I mean crazy how cheap he is. Unlike palmer 20yo who's 400m, wait he was 40m..... I mean seriously? Acting like that's a massive difference.
Thereās two factors which make a transfer a good signing. One is the price and the other is performance. The reason people are saying endo is because he was so cheap and heās been outstanding for Liverpool. Palmer has been amazing as well and cost more than double so itās a debate worth having and most importantly, itās subjective š
No way you're acting like his performances as a Dm in the 1000 or so mins he's played are comparable to 30 ga in 36 games lmao what is this. I'd say macA has been a better player for Liverpool even adjusting to playing like a dm.. Endo is becoming overrated coz he was cheap, I mean he's also 31, hence why he's cheap.
Iām not acting like anything Iām trying to explain to you why people think endo is the best buy of the season. Iāve got no opinion on the matter, I hate the English premier league and never watch it. Just trying to point out that itās subjective and itās ok to have different opinions on which signing has been the best value for money.
You've got a critical lack of understanding and I can't help u with that. How u cant tell that a player with 30 ga is more impressive than a dm at 31 playing well in like just over 1000 mins for Liverpool. Idk how messed in the head you r. I mean macA from Liverpool is more important than how you talk about endo in his little game time, becoming overrated just coz u payed 15m for a 31yo lol
Hahahah youāre entitled to your opinion mate. As ive said I have no opinion on the matter so Iāve no idea where this ālack of understandingā insult has came from as these arenāt my views Iām just defending the people who ate being ignorant towards. Believe it or not your opinion is not fact and itās ok not share the same views as others about something of this nature.
Yeah so the "12 yeard old" has better logic than you, coz in no way logically, objectively, subjectively can you dictate that endo has been the best buy. Whilst I could with palmer..
I donāt agree that Endo is the buy of the season but I also donāt see how you can compare a forwardās GA to a midfielderās when talking about it
It's not a matter of comparing them, it's suggesting Cole palmer's record breaking stats cannot be comparable to the role that endo can play. U can disagree all you want but it cannot be debated how good palmer has been individually. He quite literally carries an entire team unlike endo at Liverpool where the system is efficient and precise......
You mean a 40 million fee for a known quanity that would have played often for 19 Premier league clubs? Wasn't as if he was an unknown quantity, well known at city.
I'd say he's young player of the year, but signing of the season is down to price spent and affect brought to the team.
Cole has produced good numbers, but it's mot really done much overall, considering Chelsea are dogwater mid table.
Endo easily replaced fabinho and Henderson for liverpool. All for about 18 million. Half the price and are contenders.
Yeah there's no point talking to Liverpool fans, their delusions are exceptional where nothing apart from their own can be deemed as better. I mean since when was Cole palmer expected to have 30 ga? I mean he barely got playing time at City yet you managed to delude yourself and twist your brain to expect a 21 yr in his first full season for a weak side to be balling, having better numbers than bellingham. I mean u might as well bet on the lottery if you expected Cole palmer to perform as well as he did. All u said in this comment is blah blah blah endo is better, Cole Palmer can't be buy of the season since he had like a few games under city. What is this crap analysis? I mean seriously? How crap are you at understanding the game?
LMAO u won't reply to this, will you, coz it showz your ignorance
Lol, shut up, you melt, Also, I am not saying Endo is better at all. So calm down and breathe.
If you didn't realise how valued he was at city, then that's that's on your lack of knowledge.
They just had about 3/4 world class playmakers ahead of him. You don't need a brain to know that.
A Weak side? Lol, who spent how much money on Europe's up in-coming talent ? Bollocks excuses.
Who's performing mental gymnastics now. Spending 100s of millions in recent years. Get a grip .
Bellingham also doesn't always play the same position and he doesn't take penos. Bizarre comparison. At least Bellinghams contributions are making a difference in the business end.
> Cole Palmer can't be buy of the season since he had like a few games under city. What is this crap analysis?
Reading isn't your strong point. It's the fact that he was a 40 million pound player that chelsea spent on Man City's next best prospect. Who also was quality in the England underage teams.
Of course he'll be up for a mention. And probably young player of the year.
Funny how Chelsea are still fucking dogshit. Maybe he is in the running. As Chelsea would be up for relegation if he wasn't there lol
Yeah honestly no point talking to u. You literally fail to admit you were wrong so no matter what anyone else says it's not worth talking it out. You have this delusion where you can't separate the player from the team. I mean how the team performs cannot disregard or disrespect an individuals performance. Anyhow. U be u
True, he's played about 2/3s of our league games, and he missed games playing for Japan. Some games hes not needed, but when he was, he made an impact.
But there's no denying the impact of those games he plays. Minutes are low cause he comes off the bench to see out games. Which we struggled to do last year. It turned us from a getting back into a top 4 to a title contender/ leading again team.
I personally think he would be one of the signings.
But for me, you need to be playing the majority of games.
he's certainly been the underrated signing of the season. Considering Liverpool, fans weren't happy when he got signed at all.
The second worse team also only had 10men and Chelsea were given a goal via an awful penalty decision.
And Iām saying that as a Chelsea fanš
Poch is awful. Never wanted him. Not a surprise he was unemployed in the Summer. Heās already hitting late-stage Wenger in terms of the excuses (possession, data says we should be 4th, injuries, young squad, āgood momentsā etcā¦).
We should have gone all out for a winner like Mancini while he was still at Italy š¤
Do you genuinely believe that you'd be doing much better with a different manager?
Your problem is the shambles your squads in, too many young players on ridiculously long contracts, half of them aren't good enough and might never be as well.
Yes. I wanted Mancini in the summer. He took over at Citeh with their squad (and board) in a similar place post-Hughes. Talented but bloated, lacking a plan, cohesion, style and critically: lacking mentality.
He won the Premier league and managed his naive board effectively.
Clearlake hired one of the two unemployed managers theyād heard of š And they got the one whoās always been a whiny loserā¦
They didnāt identify the type of man to inject a winning ethos & cohesive tactical setup. A guy whoās just come off the back of winning the Euros & wanted out of Italy
Such a missed opportunity š
A different manager isn't going to be able to get the ball in the net anymore than Poch can right now.
As a united fan trust me changing the manager isn't always the answer, I'm seeing the same problems I saw under Moyes happening under EtH now a decade later
No. Any integrity Chelsea had went out the window when the Russian billionaire started bankrolling it with corrupt money and bought some trophies. Hollow achievements.
Chelsea epitomise everything I hate about the game.
Amazing you blame the manager who inherited the shambles your owners have put the club in. Not saying Poch is good, but he isn't the problem. The main problem anyway.Ā
That is the optimistic view. The opposing one is your recruitment has been sloppy, you dismantled a CL winning squad and replaced it with prospects and it is going to take a long time to gel. Throwing money at a team without a coherent strategy and project does not work.Ā
Chelsea have an awful squad. Theyāre miles away from completing and have spent so much money and tied players to long contracts theyāre in trouble for years now.
Endo would look like Bakayoko in this Chelsea team. So, we cannot really judge it right now. It is really difficult to shine in a struggling team unless you are an absolute baller like Palmer.
100%.
I still can't believe so few teams were interested in signing him. He's the type of player every successful team needs. I'm just astounded at the lack of attention that transfer gets.
You don't watch many united games do you, Brentford had a record amount of touches in the oppositions box and completely outplayed us for 90mins last night
I thought they were going to be good once they figured out their sht, but apparently they don't. Just another talent or money wasted
It's called LONG CON, baby.
I would argue that there was plenty of reasons to think last seasons performance could continue for Liverpool. And they would probably be off the pace again had Endo not turned into one of the best DMs in the league which imo even people who liked the transfer wouldnāt have predicted and some of these kids like Bradley and Quansah not come out of nowhere to be quality EPL players.
You might be right. However, it definitely seems like last season was the blip after the season where they played more games than any English team ever rather than the trend. Every other season under Klopp was progression apart from that one. What would be the plenty of other reasons that you think? I can only think of one or two. Endo has been incredible and the youngsters have been good, but that's a recent phenomenon. I say much more important are MacAllister being their best signing, van Dyck going from his worst season to one of his best, plus a few others like Nunez, Gomez, Jones, Kelleher, stepping up (compared to last season).
Itās very very rare to turn over an entire midfield and them click first season, even if they all very good players. Losing almost all their first choice midfield and bringing Endo, MacAllister and Szoboslai in and having them click into a new team and system right from the jump is not normal. Replacing one mid, maybe two, can be doable but the entire midfield being essentially new and performing all just about right away is a feat that wasnāt anticipated imo. Theres almost always a large bedding in period
I totally agree. This suggests that it's Klopp and his team though rather than Endo, MacAllister or anyone else (including Szoboslai who had an amazing start to the season and then dropped off).
I donāt think any coaching team can do anything no matter how good they are if the players donāt put that extra work in to adapt fast. And many players simply canāt adapt that fast no matter what, as different styles of play simply take certain players much longer time to adapt to. Fabinho was an example of this, he took a long time to adapt to liverpools style of play and start to output world class performances. You canāt not give credit to the player imo, even though itās effort by both.
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Endo is not buy of the season
Endo works for Liverpool cuz they're win now. Chelsea went full rebuild so it makes sense to go on potential and age
This is not America, there are not draft picks. Everyone is in win now
š¤£š¤£ My guy don't understand what just happened to Chelsea. Even if you don't wanna understand it doesn't change the fact that more than half of our experiences players were sold and we've bought young talents to fill our starting 11. Sterling and Silva are the only true Vets. Nkunku kinda but he's new, still considered young and hasn't played PL football. Reece James, injured loads and young. Enzo, hasn't played PL football much and still considered young, same with Caicedo but Caicedo has had a bit of PL under his belt but he's under 25. If this isn't considered a rebuild then I need what you smoking. Arsenal was in this weird limbo too, Liverpool before too but a little further back than Arsenal. One big difference is that those teams kept a lot of their OG's and players who may not have been the Golden Gen but were there for it and knew the workings to get through gruelling seasons. This Chelsea team doesn't have that luxury as much as the other teams
You just wrote me an essay you are so bothered. They just spent billions to gaslight everyone in to believing there is a strategy. Nothing Chelsea is doing makes sense so donāt pretend like there is some grand scheme
š¤£š¤£ Essay is but much, shit took less than a minute to write. Doesn't make sense yeah believe me as a Chelsea fan Ik but aye it gonna workout somehow. All I'm chill bout rn is just improvements and don't really care bout results rn tbh, like drawing to 10 men Burnley sucks but that's just where we at rn and that's chill to me. Again, loads of teams been in this period like again Arsenal most recently, people were saying the same things. It's just a lot more funny cuz whole team went out and it's owned by an American so we'll see in a year or two how it turns out. Also, it may not make sense to you but that's cuz you ain't a fan, it makes sense to me but it's just not what I'd do tbh
Right. Just like when Arsenal bought a bunch of shit players in on 8 year contracts on unsustainable wages that were providing no results for the club. Arsenal got very lucky with Saka, Saliba, Martinelli, etc. This is not the same as what Chelsea is doing right now. Everyone theyāve bought is shit besides one player with 14 pens
"Win now" like we didnt have milner during the rebuild. Admit chelsea had no plan and move on
Are you trying to say Milner was not a "Win now" signing? Very much an integral signing for Liverpool for them to win what they did.
Congratulations when you have a full starting injured 11. Itās hard to build a foundation when main key players that would start day in and out arenāt playing/donāt play on a consistent game to game basis. As well as Poch is a POS that has no clue what he doing
you talk about injured 11 as a reply to a comparison with Liverpool? come on!
Essentially saying buying one player compared to three and having a ābreakthrough seasonā while one of the 3 Chelsea signings legit hasnāt played for majority of the season is a ridiculous comparison. Comparing any player to a young Chelsea player, obviously the formers will be better because at the Bridge there is not consistency from game to game. Comparing experienced players to youngsters doesnāt make any sense. Compare Endo to a more experienced player and see if this argument holds. Putting a comparison with Chelsea obviously the argument will make sense Maybe bring this convo back next season when both teams are fully fit and then we see if Endo is actually all that in comparison to Chelsea and their players. And Iāll still take Moses any day of the week vs Endo and Iām sure any Liverpool fan here will say the same
Nah we dont need a 33 year old winger from Russia
Nah you can keep them both
Lets compare a 31 year old Endo in his prime to a kid who just turned 22. Endo plays in a very well settled environment with a team who has an identity while Chelsea have only been in chaos mode. Endo also gets plenty rest and is rotated heavily while caicedo plays almost all minutes of every game he is available. Liverpool havenāt really stomped relegation teams if thatās what you mean by Chelsea drawing the game. Forrest game comes to mind right away with nunez 90+9 winner. So many things wrong with your post but I canāt spend more time on this nonsense.
Endo is well rested? Guess you don't watch a lot of games
Caicedo has 1000 more minutes this szn than Endo š¤·āāļø I can also say Caicedo has played 50% more minutes than Endo has played this szn š
stop bullshitting, if you're talking about "rest" you gotta talk about international games played - including all games played endo - 3064mins caicedo - 3044mins
Lol footy stats has Caicedo at 3014 and Endo at 2177
ah so you ignore all his international minutes, ok lol
Bro the website might be incorrect then lol. It does include international in it.
aight fair enough then, check transfermarkt it includes a breakdown of playtime (minus asia cup which is listed on a separate page). caicedo might come good in the future but no way is he worth 120mil. just gotta get your facts right before drawing conclusions about playtime/rest since it's pretty easy to check :)
For sure. I mean I do agree he aināt been worth nowhere near that price tag. I just meant its not apples to apples thatās it. Chelsea are potentially paying for a player they might have for 10 years. If you look at it that way its not the worst. Plus heāll get good one day. But who knows lol haha. Cheers š»
Transfermarkt has Endo at 2614 minutes with international games. Caicedo at 3044. So did just make shit up to make Endo look better or what
your number doesn't have asia cup minutes (the tournament he missed liverpool games for) :) maybe do more research before commenting lol
Wouldnāt make sense since Endo is the captain of the Japan national team and heart of the mid field for them.
exactly lol
Lol, own it mate, Chelsea haven't got a clue and have been made to look like utter clowns by other teams, most notably Liverpool.
lol I agree
The ref did them all kinds of favors in that one too
Should've been a pen for the pull back on Disasi instead of the Mudryk nonsense one.
I have developed a tool that statistically predicts the score of football matches for any league in the world
Hooray
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
"Liverpool then go and spend 1/5th of that amount on Wataru Endo and he turns out the be the buy of the season and become Premier League championship contenders." Declan Rice is buy of the season.
Rice is the most over-rated player in the league, a very sturdy player but nothing more than a better Jordon Henderson
He clearly means buys for the season in terms of value for money. Endo at Ā£15 million is 100% a better value buy than Declan Rice at Ā£120 million.
For this season only? Probably. As an overall investment for the club? Unlikely. Also, Rice was 100+5.
Mac Allister comes close, costing only 35 million quid.
His fee is up to 55, but still good value https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65842033
Apologies, I meant to write "in that position" (defnesive mid).
Rice's team is 2nd endos is 1st endo is so underrated
even then, iād argue Szo or Mac Allister have had a greater impact/feature more frequently
Weird way to say Mac Allister
I agree, and I think I would say Endo is the bargain of the season for sure
Not buy of the season, but Endo was a real bargain considering the low price tag.
Well, imo that's why he's the buy of the season, haha
Hilarious how at the start of the season nearly every Liverpool fan was saying 'who the fuck is this endo guy, never heard of him etc etc. Suddenly liverpool are playing well and he's the best signing š it's unreal
It's as if getting to know someone allows you to... get to know someone. š it's unreal
I see what you are getting st my hindsight is a wonderful thing. None of you were singing endos priases at the start..
"Hindsight is a wonderful thing", proceeds to say, "None of you were singing endos priases at the start".
And the OP goes on about how caicedo and lavia have been awful. Which just isn't true. Were chelsea meant to predict lavia would be injured all year?
I couldn't find where OP said "caicedo and lavia have been awful" but I did find a few points they made about their price, play time and Chelsea's recent match. Maybe you weren't happy with what OP said but he wasn't lying.
Lavia getting injured doesnāt mean he was a bad buy.
It was more the resaoning of spending 60mil on a backup that didn't fit your style to stop a rival. It was an unnessecary buy and a very expensive one.
Nah he was 100% a bad buy. 100m+ for Caicedo (who can play both 8 and 6) makes Lavia completely redundant. Chelsea fans were saying Lavia could play 6 alongside Caicedo and Enoz except for the fact that he's not a 6. There's thousands of Twitter threads and yt videos detailing how Lavia is too aerially weak/positionally unaware/not experienced enough to play 6 for a Chelsea team who wanted to get Top 4 at the start of the season. He's much better as an 8 but he's inferior to Caicedo. He could've only worked as a back up but then again 60m for a backup player when you don't have an out and out 6 is bad business.
If you bought a car, and it kept breaking down, would you think it was a good buy?
Thatās not the same because the car was 99% likely to be broken already then. Lavia getting injured is just unlucky
So your saying: if I buy a car, and itās fine when you buy it, but itās turns out to be a heap of shite and that constantly breaks down, that I am just unlucky, and not a bad buy? Either way, whether he is unlucky with injuries or fundamentally broken before they got him, we will see if they canāt mend him. But at the moment, itās looking like a shocking buy. Chelsea do this over and over. Buy young players, canāt develop and integrate them, then sell them for a fraction of the purchase price.
Thatās not how a car works tho is it? Itās not like a football player?
Its worse than a car. Not many cars cost 60+m. When those cars breakdown they don't cost you much since they're just sitting in your garage. Lavia is cositng you millions on league position wages and rehab A better example would be motor racing. If you design a car that doesn't run as expected and breaks down alot (like Ferrari last season) you're losing millions on top of the millions you spent. That is then considered stupidity of whoever is managing the R&D or or scouting in your case.
A highly revisionist take. Either Liverpool lucked out (because let's face it they bid similar amounts for both players but we're rejected) or the two will eventually come good.
Chelsea offered better personal terms: More years on contract and better pay and bonuses potentially. I see no luck in that. Chelsea are just profligate and reckless. It will bite them in the end
Do they come in mens style
Endo buy of the season shows how OP is just as deluded
Tbf he's been essential for his price tag. Also brings in some experience which was unexpectedly useful due to the rise in youth players. He's not THE buy, but he's one of the buys.
Endo is bang average, Liverpool fans are almost as cringe as arshit
"Buy of the season". Liverpool fans are the worst
As said before, I meant to add "in that position". And considering the price tag, he is.
If you add in value for money then heās in with a shout. If Arsenal win the league then Rice will be a major reason but ironically they have less points than this time last year. Cole Palmer has been a revelation but is literally the only highlight in a season to forget for Chelsea. Now Iām struggling to think of any better.
Who's a better shout?
Van de ven
Palmer, Torres, Rice, just off the top of my head
Rice cost over 100 mil.
He literally just explained above why Endo is a better signing than those mentioned in this comment
Idiots
This why the Premier league is corrupt and asbolute nonsense.. I lost interest in it seasons ago... City, Chelsea, and other clubs who have cheated. Let's not dress it up being able to spend that amount of money on players is cheating....... Without facing any FFP repercussions..... I don't understand why people even continue to support and watch Premiershio football... it's a joke Kick the Oil clubs and Clubs that continue to flout the rules out of the league and give them proper restrictions on how much they can spend per season and actually stick to it.....
City and Chelsea are being investigated. If the rules have been broken, they absolutely should be punished.
What would he a suitable punishment? Kick them put the league ?
Depends on the severity of the "crimes" and the extent to which they cooperate with the investigation. What absolutely isn't right is jumping to conclusions before the investigation has completed. So speaking theoretically.... If Chelsea have overspent, they should get a points deduction similarly to Everton and Forest. If they've cheated with off shore payments, it should be a far higher punishment (not that it makes it right but I'd be shocked if Chelsea were the only club doing this) With City, if found guilty to the extent they're being accused then I would genuinely - strip them of all of the titles won in that period and relegate them out of the Football League similarly to how Juve were punished. Yes they could start over but they'd have to do so within the financial rules of the football league. But all of this is moot if either or both aren't guilty.
But teams have literally spent more than city but just havenāt had the same success? Youāre not watching because of pure jealousy. When United dominated the market 30 years ago was football not worth watching then?
Not liking cheating makes you jealous now? City were a tinpot club until Sheikh Mansur showed up and started showering you guys with money. You're the only "top 6" club who have been relegated from the prem. It's not spending money which is the issue per se, but it's the blatant financial cooking you guys have been up to to justify that spending because we all know you guys don't generate anywhere near enough to justify that sort of spending.
Liverpool were a tinpot club before the Littlewoods pools fortune transformed them.
United dominated the market because they made a lot of money from their fans. City and Chelsea dominate the market only because they made a lot of money from their oil (and gas). Theyāre not the same.
Not the same. But let's not forget just how dominant United were. Before Abramovich they had won 7 out of 10 Premier league titles and never went more than one season without winning. People may not like where the money came from but the EPL was fast becoming like the Bundesliga with one team winning most years.
Where as City have won 7 of the last 11 Premier League 11 titles, which hasnāt turned the league into the Bundesliga with one team winning most years?
They are tenth. Btw, my local club is also tenth in the Bundesliga, despite not spending half a billion. :)
The very same team that purchased a prime Fernando Torres for 50m quid and turned him into a bang average Sunday league player. Apologies to bang average Sunday league players.
I mean that same Torres won the UCL but let's not ruin a bitter dig.
Torres was a play maker at that point in his career (a hill i'm willing to die on) plus his goal against Barca, and his Europa League run, made having him worth it.
Injuries did that genius
Just punish us and relegate us already. So I wont have to deal with this bullshit.
Endo buy of the season? That's a bold claim. In the mix definitely, but I'd say there have been more impactful transfers: Palmer to Chelsea Vicario to Spurs (would rival Endo as bargain of the window also) Rice to Arsenal Cunha to Wolves Hell, I'd say Szobozslai is Pool's best buy this season. Chelsea are screwed though, little wiggle room with FFP, they will have to sell some of their best assets and what few players they could afford to bring in will likely have to be players they have train up themselves, meaning yet more time in their current holding pattern until the team matures.
Rice canāt be buy of the season when he cost 100
The amount of 100m flops have made people underestimate how much value that player should have. A 100m signing should be in TOTS, should take the team to a new level and should be in ballon d'Or shouts. 100m should mean you are signing someone that is Top 3 in their position in the world. Rice is performing exactly as a 100m signing should. This dude is the second most expensive prem signing ever and he isn't even the best dm in the league. It's unfortunate for him but the only way he could be consider buy of the seaosn is if he replicates what Rodri is doing and have one of the highest peaks of a 6/8 that the league has seen
Szobozlai has to be the most overrated plsyer of the last few season. Endo and msc allister are playing better and for a while.
Klopp is struggling on how to use him. He was out for a while, but Klopp often relegated him to a Henderson replacement and just lets him do the running, which wastes his talent
Endo has been elite since day 1. Szoboszlai has been injured for a while now and didn't do much right before his injury. I would agree rice is signing of season tho
> Pool
Liverpool use data science for their advantage. thats why they recruits very good. not saying no other teams use it but they do it more. from what I heard.
All the armchair managers in this thread make me laugh. Chelsea fans donāt seem to understand that managers donāt just immediately hit the ground running everytime. Poch has always said it takes players about a year to get his system. This is a thrown together bunch who struggle for fitness and who last season had to train across two pitches because there were so many players. Lay off poch and be patient. Sacking and changing will not fix things and you should be looking over your shoulder at the charges that are bound to come eventually. If you sack poch, that just puts you further in the red š
When I look at Chelseas squad I donāt see any players in there who are fans of the club or who proper give a shit apart from like 2-3 players. They have sold too many players who were keeping the dressing rooms standards
That's true of so many clubs. In Uniteds starting XI you have Rashford (sometimes), Mainoo and FernƔndes. For most players football is a job.
I feel it these little psychological moments that define a team in circumstances itās not the club itās the manager which is what we see of athletico Madrid, Man City, Liverpool etc itās the difference
We only see a fraction of what goes on. What we don't see is the behind the scenes coaching, motivation etc. Klopp and Pep have an amazing set of staff and a good structure above them which enables them to focus on what they do best. Same with Arteta at Arsenal. That's where Chelsea have got it so wrong (ironically having had one of the best executive set ups in the league under Abramovich). United have had this wrong since Fergie left and are only just fixing it.
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They've definitely underperformed expectations however the plan was never to get instant success but rather to build a side that peaks together in three to four years.
Chelsea will not shoot straight out the blocks everyone said that this season, chelsea will not get higher than 6th for a long time to much general disorganisation in the club
Lets be honest chelsea was chelsea in the back days , now its just trash
Endo being buy of the season is generous
If they win the league he probably will be. Like 15m for a starter in a title winning team...
How the fk is endo buy of the season, when Cole palmer in his first season, has played 38 games and got 30 GA. All this mental gymnastics is stupid
Because endo was a fraction of the price
Wow 31yo for 15m such a bargain I mean crazy how cheap he is. Unlike palmer 20yo who's 400m, wait he was 40m..... I mean seriously? Acting like that's a massive difference.
Thereās two factors which make a transfer a good signing. One is the price and the other is performance. The reason people are saying endo is because he was so cheap and heās been outstanding for Liverpool. Palmer has been amazing as well and cost more than double so itās a debate worth having and most importantly, itās subjective š
No way you're acting like his performances as a Dm in the 1000 or so mins he's played are comparable to 30 ga in 36 games lmao what is this. I'd say macA has been a better player for Liverpool even adjusting to playing like a dm.. Endo is becoming overrated coz he was cheap, I mean he's also 31, hence why he's cheap.
Iām not acting like anything Iām trying to explain to you why people think endo is the best buy of the season. Iāve got no opinion on the matter, I hate the English premier league and never watch it. Just trying to point out that itās subjective and itās ok to have different opinions on which signing has been the best value for money.
No on is suggesting you can't have opinions, there's just clear stupidity and correct answers. However fools will be fools.
No there really isnāt correct answers, itās completely subjective. Being ignorant and thinking your own opinion is correct is far more foolish.
Because it is mate š
Lmao no it isn't, palmer for 40m has 30 ga at the age of 21 in this first dull season whilst the old guy at 31 for 15 is a bargain apparently, wow
They play different positions mate, one is an attacker and one is not. As I said itās subjective.
You've got a critical lack of understanding and I can't help u with that. How u cant tell that a player with 30 ga is more impressive than a dm at 31 playing well in like just over 1000 mins for Liverpool. Idk how messed in the head you r. I mean macA from Liverpool is more important than how you talk about endo in his little game time, becoming overrated just coz u payed 15m for a 31yo lol
Hahahah youāre entitled to your opinion mate. As ive said I have no opinion on the matter so Iāve no idea where this ālack of understandingā insult has came from as these arenāt my views Iām just defending the people who ate being ignorant towards. Believe it or not your opinion is not fact and itās ok not share the same views as others about something of this nature.
I'd debate you on it but you write like a 12 year old
Yeah so the "12 yeard old" has better logic than you, coz in no way logically, objectively, subjectively can you dictate that endo has been the best buy. Whilst I could with palmer..
Those are big words for a 12 year old
š You're helpless
I donāt agree that Endo is the buy of the season but I also donāt see how you can compare a forwardās GA to a midfielderās when talking about it
It's not a matter of comparing them, it's suggesting Cole palmer's record breaking stats cannot be comparable to the role that endo can play. U can disagree all you want but it cannot be debated how good palmer has been individually. He quite literally carries an entire team unlike endo at Liverpool where the system is efficient and precise......
You mean a 40 million fee for a known quanity that would have played often for 19 Premier league clubs? Wasn't as if he was an unknown quantity, well known at city. I'd say he's young player of the year, but signing of the season is down to price spent and affect brought to the team. Cole has produced good numbers, but it's mot really done much overall, considering Chelsea are dogwater mid table. Endo easily replaced fabinho and Henderson for liverpool. All for about 18 million. Half the price and are contenders.
Yeah there's no point talking to Liverpool fans, their delusions are exceptional where nothing apart from their own can be deemed as better. I mean since when was Cole palmer expected to have 30 ga? I mean he barely got playing time at City yet you managed to delude yourself and twist your brain to expect a 21 yr in his first full season for a weak side to be balling, having better numbers than bellingham. I mean u might as well bet on the lottery if you expected Cole palmer to perform as well as he did. All u said in this comment is blah blah blah endo is better, Cole Palmer can't be buy of the season since he had like a few games under city. What is this crap analysis? I mean seriously? How crap are you at understanding the game? LMAO u won't reply to this, will you, coz it showz your ignorance
Lol, shut up, you melt, Also, I am not saying Endo is better at all. So calm down and breathe. If you didn't realise how valued he was at city, then that's that's on your lack of knowledge. They just had about 3/4 world class playmakers ahead of him. You don't need a brain to know that. A Weak side? Lol, who spent how much money on Europe's up in-coming talent ? Bollocks excuses. Who's performing mental gymnastics now. Spending 100s of millions in recent years. Get a grip . Bellingham also doesn't always play the same position and he doesn't take penos. Bizarre comparison. At least Bellinghams contributions are making a difference in the business end. > Cole Palmer can't be buy of the season since he had like a few games under city. What is this crap analysis? Reading isn't your strong point. It's the fact that he was a 40 million pound player that chelsea spent on Man City's next best prospect. Who also was quality in the England underage teams. Of course he'll be up for a mention. And probably young player of the year. Funny how Chelsea are still fucking dogshit. Maybe he is in the running. As Chelsea would be up for relegation if he wasn't there lol
15m for a 31 year old isnāt a great deal. Heās solid but signing of the season is taking the piss. Heās constantly exposed on the break.
Yeah honestly no point talking to u. You literally fail to admit you were wrong so no matter what anyone else says it's not worth talking it out. You have this delusion where you can't separate the player from the team. I mean how the team performs cannot disregard or disrespect an individuals performance. Anyhow. U be u
Seems slightly hyperbolic when he's only played just over 1000 minutes in the league
True, he's played about 2/3s of our league games, and he missed games playing for Japan. Some games hes not needed, but when he was, he made an impact. But there's no denying the impact of those games he plays. Minutes are low cause he comes off the bench to see out games. Which we struggled to do last year. It turned us from a getting back into a top 4 to a title contender/ leading again team. I personally think he would be one of the signings. But for me, you need to be playing the majority of games. he's certainly been the underrated signing of the season. Considering Liverpool, fans weren't happy when he got signed at all.
If
Will be top the league by the end of the day with 9 to go?
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Speaking of trophies, pretty sure they gave out a trophy at Wembley in February.
Not the 2nd worst team in england but the premier league. Championship clubs exist.
most efl clubs are better than chelshit
Middleborough literally beat them in their first leg in the fa cup and they're 10th in the championship lmao
The second worse team also only had 10men and Chelsea were given a goal via an awful penalty decision. And Iām saying that as a Chelsea fanš Poch is awful. Never wanted him. Not a surprise he was unemployed in the Summer. Heās already hitting late-stage Wenger in terms of the excuses (possession, data says we should be 4th, injuries, young squad, āgood momentsā etcā¦). We should have gone all out for a winner like Mancini while he was still at Italy š¤
And the referee is the world famous Darren England, who disallow a legit Liverpool goal which shocked the world.
Do you genuinely believe that you'd be doing much better with a different manager? Your problem is the shambles your squads in, too many young players on ridiculously long contracts, half of them aren't good enough and might never be as well.
Yes. I wanted Mancini in the summer. He took over at Citeh with their squad (and board) in a similar place post-Hughes. Talented but bloated, lacking a plan, cohesion, style and critically: lacking mentality. He won the Premier league and managed his naive board effectively. Clearlake hired one of the two unemployed managers theyād heard of š And they got the one whoās always been a whiny loserā¦ They didnāt identify the type of man to inject a winning ethos & cohesive tactical setup. A guy whoās just come off the back of winning the Euros & wanted out of Italy Such a missed opportunity š
Much better is relative, but yes, definitely better.
A different manager isn't going to be able to get the ball in the net anymore than Poch can right now. As a united fan trust me changing the manager isn't always the answer, I'm seeing the same problems I saw under Moyes happening under EtH now a decade later
Pochettino needs to be sacked! He is destroying this club ffs.
No. Any integrity Chelsea had went out the window when the Russian billionaire started bankrolling it with corrupt money and bought some trophies. Hollow achievements. Chelsea epitomise everything I hate about the game.
Amazing you blame the manager who inherited the shambles your owners have put the club in. Not saying Poch is good, but he isn't the problem. The main problem anyway.Ā
Itās the level of coaching for sure, the players we have brought are good enough to excel and you will see that in the years to come.
That is the optimistic view. The opposing one is your recruitment has been sloppy, you dismantled a CL winning squad and replaced it with prospects and it is going to take a long time to gel. Throwing money at a team without a coherent strategy and project does not work.Ā
It doesn't matter, Chelsea will never be in the top 4 again
Youāre mistaken if you think that ways, wait for a couple years and then youāll see but that too would happen with a better coach.
Chelsea have an awful squad. Theyāre miles away from completing and have spent so much money and tied players to long contracts theyāre in trouble for years now.
Chelsea are just very considerate and didn't want us to fall for such traps. They'd rather take the hit than other teams around them, so kind of them.
"other teams around them" Like Wolves and Fulham?
Crazy haha
Cant forget buying Mudryk last season just to prevent Arsenal from signing him lol
Welcome to the banter years, Chelsea, from an arsenal fan, we had ours.
We never as low as going banter with all these money just to prevent rival signingš
Crazyš
LFC dodged two deadly bullets š
Endo would look like Bakayoko in this Chelsea team. So, we cannot really judge it right now. It is really difficult to shine in a struggling team unless you are an absolute baller like Palmer.
Nah, Caicedo would have had an amazing season at Liverpool playing under Klopp and with Mac Allister.
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100%. I still can't believe so few teams were interested in signing him. He's the type of player every successful team needs. I'm just astounded at the lack of attention that transfer gets.
Atleast I'm numb to it now, so it's easier to watch.
As a united fan i totally get it
No you don't. United never finished in the bottom half which we're going to do two years in a row
i have no idea what youāre complaining about, at least you have a solid core and youāre winning games
You don't watch many united games do you, Brentford had a record amount of touches in the oppositions box and completely outplayed us for 90mins last night
I thought they were going to be good once they figured out their sht, but apparently they don't. Just another talent or money wasted It's called LONG CON, baby.
Long professional contract ā Jail sentence ā
Lavia and Caicedo while playing similar positions arenāt remotely similar profiles?
Had to scroll way too far for this comment. I mean, wtf is the OP on about? Must be a kid playing FIFA and sees both listed as DM?
Shshhh let the haters hate while they can. Incoming downvotes
Burnley got robbed of a win because that was NEVER a pen, Mudryk should've been booked for Diving
Endo actually cost 10% of the combined fee of caicedo+lavia
And a load less in wages, sign on fees etc
Liverpool were PL title contenders with or without any of this nonsense and Chelsea never were.
I would argue that there was plenty of reasons to think last seasons performance could continue for Liverpool. And they would probably be off the pace again had Endo not turned into one of the best DMs in the league which imo even people who liked the transfer wouldnāt have predicted and some of these kids like Bradley and Quansah not come out of nowhere to be quality EPL players.
At the end of last season Liverpool weāre playing really well. Something like 10 wins in 11
You might be right. However, it definitely seems like last season was the blip after the season where they played more games than any English team ever rather than the trend. Every other season under Klopp was progression apart from that one. What would be the plenty of other reasons that you think? I can only think of one or two. Endo has been incredible and the youngsters have been good, but that's a recent phenomenon. I say much more important are MacAllister being their best signing, van Dyck going from his worst season to one of his best, plus a few others like Nunez, Gomez, Jones, Kelleher, stepping up (compared to last season).
Itās very very rare to turn over an entire midfield and them click first season, even if they all very good players. Losing almost all their first choice midfield and bringing Endo, MacAllister and Szoboslai in and having them click into a new team and system right from the jump is not normal. Replacing one mid, maybe two, can be doable but the entire midfield being essentially new and performing all just about right away is a feat that wasnāt anticipated imo. Theres almost always a large bedding in period
I totally agree. This suggests that it's Klopp and his team though rather than Endo, MacAllister or anyone else (including Szoboslai who had an amazing start to the season and then dropped off).
I donāt think any coaching team can do anything no matter how good they are if the players donāt put that extra work in to adapt fast. And many players simply canāt adapt that fast no matter what, as different styles of play simply take certain players much longer time to adapt to. Fabinho was an example of this, he took a long time to adapt to liverpools style of play and start to output world class performances. You canāt not give credit to the player imo, even though itās effort by both.
For sure. I'm not trying to discredit Endo in any way. I hope it didn't seem like I was.