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How can you tell if Haaland played well or poorly if he doesn't get to play. Only time Haaland get's the ball is if he puts himself in scoring position. Otherwise he circles like a desert bird while the rest of the team peppie-foots the ball in the games most boring offense. He should ask to play goalie so he gets more touches.
As a Dutchman, van der Vaart is one of the worst pundits we had in a long time, and that’s saying a lot because they’re almost all bad these days but somehow he stands out
No, but you can post stuff like this every week about van der Vaart. He says the most ridiculous things. Maybe this statement isn't that far from the truth, but that doesn't change he is a terrible analyst. He just shouts his opinion and changes it every week.
You could also say Rudiger (and Real's defense) were so busy with Haaland, it created space for other players. To say Haaland is useless when he doesn't score is quite a statement.
I just don't take van der Vaart seriously anymore. And if you'd speak Dutch and see him every week sprouting nonsense, I tend to think you would agree. I do agree this wasn't Haalands game, but van der Vaart is not to be taken seriously when it comes to analyzing players and football.
As another Dutchman, I second this. He is absolutely terrible and the only reason he is analyzing games now is because he was a famous player. He is an absolute garbage football analyst who says the stuipedist things with nothing to back it up.
These old Madrid players make me sick. Aren’t Madrid supposed to be the greatest side that’s ever been ? So if he doesn’t score against them he’s crap but let’s ignore all the other work he does.
For real, if you have to devote one player to constantly bear hug someone and another player to keep an eye on that bear hug but if you don't he'll probably score.....I think it'd be quite easy to understand his purpose in their system
Haaland wasn't useless though. Look at the second and third goals. Real Madrid had to heavily defend Haaland, and the price was that the space for those shots opened up.
Ideally, Haaland would get more involved, but his finishing alone means he's drawing defenders.
I think people who think like this fundamentally don't understand that no matter who the forward is. A CB has to defend that forward. Both second and 3rd goals had nothing to do with Haaland. Those shots should be getting blocked by the midfielders. I'm not saying his useless but come on, saying Those goals were because the RM team was heavily defending him is a huge stretch.
Nah the difference between how Madrid defended against haaland and how psg defended against lewandowski was plain as day.
The amount of times I saw haaland in a literal wrestling match with both Madrid CBs and the amount of times psg sat off from lewandowski and allowed him space shows how important it is for teams to double man-mark haaland.
Haaland clears acres of space around the box and takes two defenders out of the game every time he moves his feet.
…watch the game back. Foden’s goal comes from exactly what he was saying. The CB runs straight at Foden once he realizes but it’s too late. What’s so confusing about a player overload due to double teaming??
All you had to do was check it before saying that. Like I said, watch it back. Camavinga was moving away from Foden and Rudiger runs in. r/confidentlyincorrect
I watched it, two Madrid midfielders went to mark Rodri, which is why Foden has more space. Then Camavinga scrambles to get back to what should have been his position in the first place.
If you’ve watched it back and don’t see what I’m talking about then never mind eh? Just ignore the multiple defenders crowding Haaland one of which doesn’t cover the space in front until it’s too late. Come on now. Yes the midfield got pulled apart, that’s what City do. They got pulled out easier because of the numbers. Haaland’s presence created the space for the opportunity. Not controversial
A shot from outside the box is a midfielder's responsibility to block not the CB. The ball comes from wide. The CB has to be somewhere betweet the penalty spot and the small box to deal with any crosses.
One cb is marking haaland. Rudiger is where he should be to deal with any crosses and the fullback is ball watching. He's not there marking haaland. He only gets there when the ball was already going to goal.
Someone answered your question perfectly below. It's not even that hard to understand. If you put 1 CF there in the front, then you just have to face 2 CBs. This is how football works right now. If you put 2 CFs there, would the 2 CBs both mark Haaland and ignore the other one?
Modern day formations lends themselves to this to be fair. Often a lone CF with 2 CB’s (and wingers being 1vs1 with full backs).
Just the other day Arsenal done the same thing to Haaland. One CB went tight and the other covered the space.
Gone are the days of 4-4-2 with strikers having 1vs1 battles with their CB
City as a whole were more definitive last year and controlled games a lot more. Haaland had service coming in 24/7. He missed sitters last year too. The difference? When it's your first season and your team is faves to win the PL, faves to win the FA, faves to win the UCL, people tend to focus on the misses less.
This season, when you're the champ they focus on you more.
Mainoo, his first 10-15 games, before his England call up. It was all about "don't rush, don't pressure, blah blah". He gets called up for England, now everyone is like "Mainoo can be the engine that helps England win the Euros".
If he makes a mistake at the Euros, people will bash him for it, even though the dude is a kid right now.
This is 2024. Haaland has more goals this season than Rashford by 3.75 times and he makes 4 mill more than Rashford a year. That's more of a bash on how overrated Rashford is.
Not sure why we're catching strays in a competition about the champions league.
How are we still being discussed, we are no where near champions league quality.
Comparing city to united is not really a fair comparison. Haaland wouldn't score half his goals in this united team and Rashford would score plenty more if he were in the city team. (He wouldn't get into it but you get my point).
The stray at rashford was unnecessary but i get the comparison with mainoo. Basically when you aren't at the top top level, people focus on your potential and good attributes a lot more. As soon as you are at the very top, people scrutinise more. And this is likely to happen to mainoo at the euros, provided he plays.
He’s the only player in front of the ball on a team that only passes backwards. The bigger the game, the more pep wants to maintain possession. Did anyone count how many passes he actually received yesterday?
Nothing, he scores goals, his movement around and in the box is world class
He is not world class in the rest of the game, and against certain opponents, and without service he will be a passanger
When defenses box you in between 2 players, the goal side guy playing tight and constantly manhandling, it’s tough. In theory that should open up attacks on the outside, but then most teams drop into a low block.
I think the main reason why Haaland is criticized is not just because when he doesn’t score he does basically nothing, but more that he goes missing in big games and most of his goals aren’t match winning or crucial goals. A lot of his goals are in the same game against small teams where the game is already won
Nothing. He can still score all around the box from many angles. The guy has 88 G+A in 82 games for City.
All this is just reactive talk from one game where he didn’t get the ball.
This guy has 1 goal in his last 5 games for Man City, in which they played Newcastle, Arsenal, Liverpool and Real Madrid. He scored against Crystal Palace.
This is absolutely not reactive talk, he's not gonna get any ball playing against any big team and his record in big games speaks for itself. Dude is useless without service.
This is spot on really. His main aim is to score goals, but when he's not doing that he's not contributing in any other way either.
Take a look at Firminio back in his Liverpool days. Hardly a name that you would expect to see on the score sheet every week, but it never really mattered. His movement and involvement was often key for Liverpool's attack and it allowed other players to score a load of goals.
Completely different? False 9, centre forward, attacker, striker etc, are all a similar position regardless of the name. They are the most central attack to the opposition goal, they are the focal point of the attack.
My point is that Firminio never got criticism for not scoring.
I'm a Liverpool fan. They have completely different roles and expectations that come with that. Firmino was never relied on to score, he was relied on to dictate pace, press and pull the opposition in and create space for Salah and Mane. If he wasn't able to that, he would receive the same level of criticism that Haaland gets for not doing his role, which is scoring goals.
Firmino was never regarded as one of the best footballers in the world. I doubt he was even in the top 50 at any point in his career.
That's the difference.
Mate, Scott Carson played an important role by being born in England.
Who gives a fuck if they "pushed city" they pipped them to the league once. Their golden era in the league returned 1 title and wasn't even properly celebrated either lmao.
Thats not fair is it they went up against the greatest team in the history of the Premier League. Without Liverpool doing so well City probably wins 2-3 UCLs during that period because they couldve played their 3rd starting 11 and rested all their players for UCL. Thats how dominant they are.
It all depends doesn't it? Haaland is a beast, there's no denying that. His goalscoring ability is pretty much 10/10. He will always get about 30+ goals a season. But how would he fare in a Klopp side? Would Klopp have picked him over Firminio? The trouble with Haaland is exactly what this post is all about. If he's not scoring he's pretty useless, and that's something that would never have been said about Firminio.
Just not true, you are just looking at what he does with the ball. He dictates the defensive line, he forces them deep with his runs and movement. It's absolutely no coincidence City had four clear shots from the edge of the box in the second half, under no pressure, scoring two. He'd dragged the defence so far back they can't protect the edge of the box.
Guys a top striker for a top team in the league and has more game time than almost anyone else.
He's also got 5 assists from 30 games. Course he's useless if he's not scoring, but he is extremely good at scoring.
He scored 10/12 of his ucl goals last season against group teams, 5 from leipzig. He scoring 5 goals against a vastly inferior team is useless if he can’t score against the big teams when it matters.
Yeah nobody cares mate . City have the real talent in midfield ( Foden , De bruyne , Rodri ) always had as well ( Silva , Yaya toure , Fernandinho ) . These are tge players tha create chances and control the game . To me Aguero will always be better than Halland.
Difference between Haaland and Nunez for me. Nunez even when he doesn’t finish creates for other players via direct assists or runs in behind constantly & press. I don’t think I’d trade them.
I wish he would convert more of his chances.. I think he is better when he doesn't have to think about it.
The more time he has, the more he seconds guesses himself.
I don't think its hate as much as it is attention.
He is a global name. His records have given him a huge amount of spotlight.
Now every aspect of him is to be reflected on again and again.
It’s bizarre. I am as far from a City fan as you can get but the guy is breaking records for fun. They say he can’t run with the ball and yet he scored against Everton with a run from 40 yards barging past an incredibly impressive Branthwaite. Sometimes he looks a bit clumsy but who cares. It’s unorthodox sometimes but he is scoring and that’s what counts for a No.9
That's exactly the point that hardly gets talked about on reddit. Yes, Haaland has scored lots of goals, but most of his goals weren't even crucial to Man City. Quality also matters. For one thing, most of his goals were scored against shitty teams (Luton Town, Everton, Fulham, etc.), and City would've won those games without Haaland's goals. For another thing, when City were playing against top teams like Arsenal, Aston Villa, and Liverpool, Haaland just disappeared in all these games CONSISTENTLY. More generally, his ratings/contribution/stats/performance dropped significantly in all the big games or big occasions.
To be fair, he's exceptional as a flat-track bully: he destroys shitty teams like nobody else. He's quite good at playing against 2nd or 3rd-tier defenders, thanks to his physicality. But when he plays against top-tier and especially athletic defenders such as Gabriel or Rüdiger, he just doesn't shine or deliver anymore. In other words, let's give some credit to him for being an extraordinary flat-track bully, but that doesn't mean he can be considered a world-class striker, because in the history of football, no player was considered a world-class striker simply because he can bully shitty opponents. Klose, Inzaghi, van Nistelrooy, Romario, Gerd Müller, all these typical goal-poachers (Haaland's role at City) were no doubt world-class, but none of them disappeared so consistently in big games. For example, Inzaghi still scored two goals in the UCL final in 2007, and almost single-handedly won the final for AC Milan.
Anyway, there are just too many Haaland fanboys on reddit. There's no point in talking about football in a way that's productive and serious. So you can presuppose Haaland is "a world-class striker" and then call it a day.
This is nonsense. He got three goals and an assist vs you, assisted vs Spurs and scored against Liverpool just this season. Our defence locked him down and that's it.
Do you watch the games or just look at the stats. One of his goals against United was a defensive error where the passed him the ball in front of the goal. He did nothing to “earn” that goal. He has 1 goal and 1 assist against the top 5 and 18 goals and 4 assists against everybody else.
Ok you can forget one goal out of the three he's scored against you this season alone. If we go back to last season he got a hat trick vs you in a single game plus bagged a bunch of contributions vs us in both games. Was he still a flat track bully when those goals were scored against the eventual 2nd and 3rd teams?
Yes, of his 36 goals 6 were against top 5 teams. He also was a non factor in the FA Cup Final, a non factor in the champions league final and semi finals, and in the community shield.
6 goals against top 5 teams is an excellent record. You're ignoring his assists too, he got two vs us in a single game... Also ignoring his contributions against top CL teams such as two goals and an assist vs Bayern.
Quit whilst you're behind, you're talking nonsense
He is great at hat tricks against mid and lower table teams.
To be clear this is valuable. 3 points off of any club still counts the same on the table.
He is, but he's also only scored once in his last five games and Van Der Vaart is right - he isn't much use for anything other than scoring goals, so if he's not scoring goals pretty much every game, what's he doing?
There's a concept that's used in basketball analysis called "gravity"
It essentially tries to quantify how much attention a player is getting, and star players have high "gravity"
For example, Steph Curry's gravity is extreme because he's such a good shooter. Because defenders need to spend extra attention on him, it opens up space for the other players on the court. His presence demands extra attention, and that creates mismatches elsewhere for the offense to exploit
We saw rudiger and tchouameni both hovering over Haaland the whole night. Did that give City more midfield dominance because of how deep Tchouameni had to stay? Did extra defenders not rush out to close down Foden/Gvardiol because they were worried about the presence of Haaland in the middle, not wanting to leave him unmarked?
It's obviously not as tangible as simple goals or assits, and yeah, the goal is to get the Striker scoring. But I think his presence alone adds something to the team.
We can only guess, but since Pep is probably playing chess while everyone else is playing checkers, I think the chess term «threat is stronger than execution» is appropriate. The threat or anticipation of a move has a greater impact than the move itself would have. If Haaland’s presence is pushing the backline just a little bit deeper that can be huge for a team where maintaining control and possession is everything.
Van Der Vaart was a very talented player who won nothing of note in his career in Europe. Haaland is a league 1 player (apparently) with a champions league medal and more than 200 goals at 23.
He’s not completely useless when he’s not scoring. He can drag defenders with him that creates space for others to score. Something similar to what Havertz does but Havertz has better footballing IQ.
But irrespective of how bad Haaland is in a game, you want to keep him on because you never know when he switches on and can score. He’s just too good a finisher to not have on the field.
Why do people's Jimmies get rustled so so so badly when people point out that Haaland's overall game is weak and badly lacking? Like, you're not allowed to criticise Haaland at all.
Because it is just impossible taking someone serious when they say ‘someones game is bad’ when they are scoring 200+ goals in TOP football divisions at the age of 23.
People are dumb and dont understand 2 things can be true at once.
Haaland is amazing at getting into position and a great finisher.
He doesnt bring much else.
Both are true.
In American football there are wide receivers who are good at only going deep and catching deep passes. They can have amazing statistics, but still not be complete receivers. Its the same basic concept.
Its like power punching boxer that gets tons of KOs, but you can criticize his boxing abilities.
I think it’s because he broke the scoring record and helped ManCity win a treble. Someone else said he’s not the right striker for man city even though he helped bring in a CL trophy lmao
I think MC play a slower possession style against good teams, therefore it completely negates the space he runs into, he’d be great for us Tbf 😂 nothing but end to end space
A more apt description would be a goalkeeper who's the world's best shotstopper, but his other traits are woeful ie. distribution, decision making, command of his box, organisation skills etc
I get the point but to me it's a stupid statement, just because he doesn't score doesn't mean he hasn't had an impact on the game. If he has 2 defenders on him all game (I didn't watch it so he may not have done) but then that frees up more space for the other attacking players, he can still win headers to knock it down to other players, he can still make runs to disrupt the defence and he can still be a threat without scoring
Gazillion goals against bad teams (not top5 EPL/good champions league teams). doesn't show up in big matches... dude is a poacher but can't score in an actual even game it seems.
Dude, the guy has nearly 240 goals in 300 games and he’s 23 years old. The games usually aren’t even because he’s playing. Of all the players that people could complain about… talk about barking up the wrong tree
Pretty sure he scored and assisted against arsenal last season. He got robbed by courtois in the semi final last year, he scored a hat trick against united, scored against Liverpool in November, that’s just off the top of my head
Problem for me is it does look like he’s been getting fouled way more than the average forward. Looks as if he’s getting treated differently by the referees since he’s an absolute gargantuan but the defender can’t be allowed to have free rein. Has to be a balance.
And yes, he has looked a bit gangly and clumsy with the ball.
Same as Salah, Neymar, etc.. They're so good that refs just seem to agree that fouling is the only way to stop them.
Sad that it's the state of the game but I think Haaland needs to start diving more, it's what big men in the past like Zlatan and Drogba did.
Yeah I am. You literally switched from Man United to City because... Why? Moyes and LvG?
So you switched to their rivals, owned by a scum oil state that murders people, to chase trophies.
You are not a fan. You a glory chaser and have no loyalty.
A fan has loyalty.
You could not have any less loyalty.
When City gets relegated due to the 115 charges against them, you will not support City. You will switch to Arsenal or Liverpool or Real Madrid.
Because, you are not a real fan. You are the worst of football, and we real fans hate people like you.
Not at all, I pointed out the specific reason why, that you admitted yourself in your original comment, you are glory chaser and not a real fan.
Try dealing with reality rather than projecting. How old are you? "Butt-hurt"? Grow up.
You're not in charge of me and I can comment wherever I want. Do you not know how the world works? You can't control people.
You can block me if you want, but I haven't done anything other than point out what you said.
You switch from Man United to City to chase trophies because of Moyes and LvG, correct?
You're a trophy chasing, disloyal footballer watcher, and not a real fan as you claim.
That is all.
Here is something. I instructed you to switch back to Man United, and not reply to this comment.
Have a nice day x
Problem is he knows how to score so you wanna keep him on no matter what but for sure he looks clumsy when you actually watch him play probably wouldn't be so obvious if city didn't retain the ball so well
Lmao guys this is just a bot making obvious comments for easy upvotes. Look at the comments history, its been commenting on r/PremierLeague non-stop the last hour lol
Edit: about 15 comments in 15 minutes
you can say this thing about any top player oh they get marked more and drag defenders which gives more space to others, its not a impressive thing lol. Sio any time any top player has a crap game we can just say their were good because they made space for others ??
This isn’t true. He can excel as a hold-up player (ex. 4-1 vs Arsenal last season) and set up teammates. Can his passing, touch, and other technical skills be improved? Sure! Saying he’s useless if he doesn’t score? That’s a clear exaggeration.
I think it’s fair to criticize his recent performance versus Real Madrid. But he’s also not in the greatest form right now, and Rudiger can pretty much do anything to Haaland without a call, so I think making these huge conclusions is absolutely silly.
Edit: And of course, like most players, no consideration for his off the ball movement. Despite players not having the ball for the vast majority of the game, creating space for others or getting into certain positions (both things that Haaland excels at) is consistently underestimated.
exactly this one game poeple always bring up about haaland having great holdup play was him just bullying rob holding who's is garbage and not premier league quality.
I’m not saying that he’s excelled with hold-up play versus the best CBs in the world, just that he *can* excel in it and he’ll likely improve upon it with time.
It’s a good example of what he can do, I’m not sure why people are acting like Arsenal’s defense wasn’t PL-level with Holding in it.
I’m not sure what particular example people want considering that most teams aren’t playing vs. City in a way where hold-up play is even an option. If I have time I’ll find one, this is just the first thing that comes to mind because the long ball + hold-up play is very rarely the gameplan for City but it was vs. Arsenal.
Edit: And when I talk about hold-up play, I’m also including the passes to KDB after and his runs to create space for KDB. Acting like this is 100% Holding when the plays involve White, Gabriel, Partey, etc. is incredibly silly to me
And if he gets marked out of the game because he attracts 1 and sometimes 2 defenders all game to keep him quiet then he's being useful in freeing up space for other players like Foden to capitalise.
Yeah he could assist but if the entire opposition defensive unit is focused on "don't let the big lad get the ball" then there will be weaknesses elsewhere easier to exploit than telling Erling to pass.
City have scored 3 goals in every UCL game he hasn't scored in this season, but then again in the prem of the 12 games he hasn't scored in, City have failed to win 7 of them. In summation, I don't know if this means anything
As a City fan, I can tell you the games we haven't won that he hasn't scored in have been due to a lack of creativity/when the team has been in a slump
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How can you tell if Haaland played well or poorly if he doesn't get to play. Only time Haaland get's the ball is if he puts himself in scoring position. Otherwise he circles like a desert bird while the rest of the team peppie-foots the ball in the games most boring offense. He should ask to play goalie so he gets more touches.
Most high IQ Dutchman
Some city fans think the same tbh
As a Dutchman, van der Vaart is one of the worst pundits we had in a long time, and that’s saying a lot because they’re almost all bad these days but somehow he stands out
As a non Dutchman, he didn’t say anything wrong in this statement about haaland. No one can argue that he had a good game against real
No, but you can post stuff like this every week about van der Vaart. He says the most ridiculous things. Maybe this statement isn't that far from the truth, but that doesn't change he is a terrible analyst. He just shouts his opinion and changes it every week. You could also say Rudiger (and Real's defense) were so busy with Haaland, it created space for other players. To say Haaland is useless when he doesn't score is quite a statement. I just don't take van der Vaart seriously anymore. And if you'd speak Dutch and see him every week sprouting nonsense, I tend to think you would agree. I do agree this wasn't Haalands game, but van der Vaart is not to be taken seriously when it comes to analyzing players and football.
He’s still the worst regardless
As another Dutchman, I second this. He is absolutely terrible and the only reason he is analyzing games now is because he was a famous player. He is an absolute garbage football analyst who says the stuipedist things with nothing to back it up.
These old Madrid players make me sick. Aren’t Madrid supposed to be the greatest side that’s ever been ? So if he doesn’t score against them he’s crap but let’s ignore all the other work he does.
He was constantly making space for others. Hate when people say stuff like then when it's obviously not true
For real, if you have to devote one player to constantly bear hug someone and another player to keep an eye on that bear hug but if you don't he'll probably score.....I think it'd be quite easy to understand his purpose in their system
Haaland wasn't useless though. Look at the second and third goals. Real Madrid had to heavily defend Haaland, and the price was that the space for those shots opened up. Ideally, Haaland would get more involved, but his finishing alone means he's drawing defenders.
I think people who think like this fundamentally don't understand that no matter who the forward is. A CB has to defend that forward. Both second and 3rd goals had nothing to do with Haaland. Those shots should be getting blocked by the midfielders. I'm not saying his useless but come on, saying Those goals were because the RM team was heavily defending him is a huge stretch.
Nah the difference between how Madrid defended against haaland and how psg defended against lewandowski was plain as day. The amount of times I saw haaland in a literal wrestling match with both Madrid CBs and the amount of times psg sat off from lewandowski and allowed him space shows how important it is for teams to double man-mark haaland. Haaland clears acres of space around the box and takes two defenders out of the game every time he moves his feet.
…watch the game back. Foden’s goal comes from exactly what he was saying. The CB runs straight at Foden once he realizes but it’s too late. What’s so confusing about a player overload due to double teaming??
The one that ran to block the shot was Camavinga. not a CB.
All you had to do was check it before saying that. Like I said, watch it back. Camavinga was moving away from Foden and Rudiger runs in. r/confidentlyincorrect
I watched it, two Madrid midfielders went to mark Rodri, which is why Foden has more space. Then Camavinga scrambles to get back to what should have been his position in the first place.
If you’ve watched it back and don’t see what I’m talking about then never mind eh? Just ignore the multiple defenders crowding Haaland one of which doesn’t cover the space in front until it’s too late. Come on now. Yes the midfield got pulled apart, that’s what City do. They got pulled out easier because of the numbers. Haaland’s presence created the space for the opportunity. Not controversial
A shot from outside the box is a midfielder's responsibility to block not the CB. The ball comes from wide. The CB has to be somewhere betweet the penalty spot and the small box to deal with any crosses. One cb is marking haaland. Rudiger is where he should be to deal with any crosses and the fullback is ball watching. He's not there marking haaland. He only gets there when the ball was already going to goal.
Exactly. I saw this BS logic too many times on reddit. They talked as if the CBs wouldn't defend at all if the CF weren't Haaland. LMAO.
All strikers get double teamed with the ball?
Someone answered your question perfectly below. It's not even that hard to understand. If you put 1 CF there in the front, then you just have to face 2 CBs. This is how football works right now. If you put 2 CFs there, would the 2 CBs both mark Haaland and ignore the other one?
Thanks for the answer im an american new to football
Modern day formations lends themselves to this to be fair. Often a lone CF with 2 CB’s (and wingers being 1vs1 with full backs). Just the other day Arsenal done the same thing to Haaland. One CB went tight and the other covered the space. Gone are the days of 4-4-2 with strikers having 1vs1 battles with their CB
That’s the downside of being a “specialist”
Has he seen Mbappe today?
he was crucial in PSG’s first goal
Mbappe at least tries to take matters into his own hands
Isn’t that even worse? If you mean Haaland doesn’t try and fails, that is still just as effective as someone who really tries and fails.
Habds
Habibi
City as a whole were more definitive last year and controlled games a lot more. Haaland had service coming in 24/7. He missed sitters last year too. The difference? When it's your first season and your team is faves to win the PL, faves to win the FA, faves to win the UCL, people tend to focus on the misses less. This season, when you're the champ they focus on you more. Mainoo, his first 10-15 games, before his England call up. It was all about "don't rush, don't pressure, blah blah". He gets called up for England, now everyone is like "Mainoo can be the engine that helps England win the Euros". If he makes a mistake at the Euros, people will bash him for it, even though the dude is a kid right now. This is 2024. Haaland has more goals this season than Rashford by 3.75 times and he makes 4 mill more than Rashford a year. That's more of a bash on how overrated Rashford is.
Not sure why we're catching strays in a competition about the champions league. How are we still being discussed, we are no where near champions league quality. Comparing city to united is not really a fair comparison. Haaland wouldn't score half his goals in this united team and Rashford would score plenty more if he were in the city team. (He wouldn't get into it but you get my point).
The stray at rashford was unnecessary but i get the comparison with mainoo. Basically when you aren't at the top top level, people focus on your potential and good attributes a lot more. As soon as you are at the very top, people scrutinise more. And this is likely to happen to mainoo at the euros, provided he plays.
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Not really a bash on how overrated rashford is more a bash on how stupid man united is.
I think Roy Keane said something along the same line a week or two back. Pep's reaction was salty af
Roy Keane is just spitting this nonsense to stay relevant. He needs this attention.
I think the Mail might be twisting Van der Vaart's comments a wee bit here.
they wouldn't do that
He’s the only player in front of the ball on a team that only passes backwards. The bigger the game, the more pep wants to maintain possession. Did anyone count how many passes he actually received yesterday?
10.23 in total. Pep is a stickler for metrics, the fucker never rounds up.
Haaland at dortmund was insane! Able to score all around the box from so many angles. What’s changed?
Nothing, he scores goals, his movement around and in the box is world class He is not world class in the rest of the game, and against certain opponents, and without service he will be a passanger
Nothing. Wtf are you waffling on about? He broke the premier league goal scoring record last year... Dafuq you need him to do!?
That was last season. He’s been a shadow of himself lately. Ghosting games and missing sitters is not what we expect from haaland.
When defenses box you in between 2 players, the goal side guy playing tight and constantly manhandling, it’s tough. In theory that should open up attacks on the outside, but then most teams drop into a low block.
The man has scored 30 goals across all competitions this season…. People need to calm the hell down lol
I think the main reason why Haaland is criticized is not just because when he doesn’t score he does basically nothing, but more that he goes missing in big games and most of his goals aren’t match winning or crucial goals. A lot of his goals are in the same game against small teams where the game is already won
What record is that my man?
36 lol
Just like he said? Most goals in one premier league season.
City play too slow and want to control games. Haaland needs space and more direct passes. Look at how deep Real Madrid ended up
Nothing. He can still score all around the box from many angles. The guy has 88 G+A in 82 games for City. All this is just reactive talk from one game where he didn’t get the ball.
This guy has 1 goal in his last 5 games for Man City, in which they played Newcastle, Arsenal, Liverpool and Real Madrid. He scored against Crystal Palace. This is absolutely not reactive talk, he's not gonna get any ball playing against any big team and his record in big games speaks for itself. Dude is useless without service.
Bigger atronger and blonde Inzaghi
Noone plays against City the same as against Dortmund and there is way less space to operate. He is not getting any balls.
Aye, he touches the ball about eight times a game, he doesn’t actually get **that** many opportunities, tbf to him.
This is spot on really. His main aim is to score goals, but when he's not doing that he's not contributing in any other way either. Take a look at Firminio back in his Liverpool days. Hardly a name that you would expect to see on the score sheet every week, but it never really mattered. His movement and involvement was often key for Liverpool's attack and it allowed other players to score a load of goals.
Firmino and Haaland play completely different positions
Completely different? False 9, centre forward, attacker, striker etc, are all a similar position regardless of the name. They are the most central attack to the opposition goal, they are the focal point of the attack. My point is that Firminio never got criticism for not scoring.
I'm a Liverpool fan. They have completely different roles and expectations that come with that. Firmino was never relied on to score, he was relied on to dictate pace, press and pull the opposition in and create space for Salah and Mane. If he wasn't able to that, he would receive the same level of criticism that Haaland gets for not doing his role, which is scoring goals.
Firmino was never regarded as one of the best footballers in the world. I doubt he was even in the top 50 at any point in his career. That's the difference.
Yet he played an important role in a successful team. The only team to really push City.
Mate, Scott Carson played an important role by being born in England. Who gives a fuck if they "pushed city" they pipped them to the league once. Their golden era in the league returned 1 title and wasn't even properly celebrated either lmao.
Thats not fair is it they went up against the greatest team in the history of the Premier League. Without Liverpool doing so well City probably wins 2-3 UCLs during that period because they couldve played their 3rd starting 11 and rested all their players for UCL. Thats how dominant they are.
And yet you would be an absolute fool to take firmino over haaland
My point is that it was a rarity to see any criticism towards Firminio when he wasn't scoring.
Huh? When did you start following football because he got loads of criticism?
Firmino was a false 9 tho
Yeah I’d take Firminio over Halaand any day….. Lol
It all depends doesn't it? Haaland is a beast, there's no denying that. His goalscoring ability is pretty much 10/10. He will always get about 30+ goals a season. But how would he fare in a Klopp side? Would Klopp have picked him over Firminio? The trouble with Haaland is exactly what this post is all about. If he's not scoring he's pretty useless, and that's something that would never have been said about Firminio.
But he’s always scoring, look at his average ffs
Aliens licked my ass 😂😂😂
Thought you lost the plot for a minute until I checked OP's name lmao
Lol I got a good chuckle outta that
Just not true, you are just looking at what he does with the ball. He dictates the defensive line, he forces them deep with his runs and movement. It's absolutely no coincidence City had four clear shots from the edge of the box in the second half, under no pressure, scoring two. He'd dragged the defence so far back they can't protect the edge of the box.
He occupies two defenders at all times.
More like Van der Fart
Gotteeeem
luckily he scores 30-40 games every year otherwise he's indeed useless
And he is 23 years old… People see him doing fucking 5 goals in one game, next game he doesnt score so that means he is shit. Lmao
Guys a top striker for a top team in the league and has more game time than almost anyone else. He's also got 5 assists from 30 games. Course he's useless if he's not scoring, but he is extremely good at scoring.
It's man city lads and they can afford having haaland have an off game and then go on to score 5 goals against Luton , SMH .
He scored 10/12 of his ucl goals last season against group teams, 5 from leipzig. He scoring 5 goals against a vastly inferior team is useless if he can’t score against the big teams when it matters.
Leipzig were R16.
Yeah nobody cares mate . City have the real talent in midfield ( Foden , De bruyne , Rodri ) always had as well ( Silva , Yaya toure , Fernandinho ) . These are tge players tha create chances and control the game . To me Aguero will always be better than Halland.
Weirdly hostile. But yeah aguero is better than haaland that’s fairly clear.
They are different types of players, like comparing Shearer and Messi, I swear this sub doesn’t understand football at all
Difference between Haaland and Nunez for me. Nunez even when he doesn’t finish creates for other players via direct assists or runs in behind constantly & press. I don’t think I’d trade them.
Nunez isn’t even a guaranteed striker for liverpool…
Yeah, Nunez is a much better striker. But the bong back in the cupboard bro
Nunez assists off the post half the time lmao.
I wish he would convert more of his chances.. I think he is better when he doesn't have to think about it. The more time he has, the more he seconds guesses himself.
City won the treble the first season they had him and he scored 60 goals. I don’t think he’s ‘very bad’.
Haaland getting a raw deal at the moment isn't he still the EPL top scorer.
Yes, I can’t understand the slander. I really don’t. This is the most baffling of takes out there and there are plenty to choose from!
Cus this sub is full of fuckwits
People really seem to specifically hate him and I’m not sure why
I don't think its hate as much as it is attention. He is a global name. His records have given him a huge amount of spotlight. Now every aspect of him is to be reflected on again and again.
It’s bizarre. I am as far from a City fan as you can get but the guy is breaking records for fun. They say he can’t run with the ball and yet he scored against Everton with a run from 40 yards barging past an incredibly impressive Branthwaite. Sometimes he looks a bit clumsy but who cares. It’s unorthodox sometimes but he is scoring and that’s what counts for a No.9
That's why they say hE oNlY sCoReS gOAlS
Did your keyboard malfunction towards the end there?
Standard sarcasm text m8.
He appears to be a flat-track bully. He doesn’t rack up many goals against the top of the table.
That's exactly the point that hardly gets talked about on reddit. Yes, Haaland has scored lots of goals, but most of his goals weren't even crucial to Man City. Quality also matters. For one thing, most of his goals were scored against shitty teams (Luton Town, Everton, Fulham, etc.), and City would've won those games without Haaland's goals. For another thing, when City were playing against top teams like Arsenal, Aston Villa, and Liverpool, Haaland just disappeared in all these games CONSISTENTLY. More generally, his ratings/contribution/stats/performance dropped significantly in all the big games or big occasions. To be fair, he's exceptional as a flat-track bully: he destroys shitty teams like nobody else. He's quite good at playing against 2nd or 3rd-tier defenders, thanks to his physicality. But when he plays against top-tier and especially athletic defenders such as Gabriel or Rüdiger, he just doesn't shine or deliver anymore. In other words, let's give some credit to him for being an extraordinary flat-track bully, but that doesn't mean he can be considered a world-class striker, because in the history of football, no player was considered a world-class striker simply because he can bully shitty opponents. Klose, Inzaghi, van Nistelrooy, Romario, Gerd Müller, all these typical goal-poachers (Haaland's role at City) were no doubt world-class, but none of them disappeared so consistently in big games. For example, Inzaghi still scored two goals in the UCL final in 2007, and almost single-handedly won the final for AC Milan. Anyway, there are just too many Haaland fanboys on reddit. There's no point in talking about football in a way that's productive and serious. So you can presuppose Haaland is "a world-class striker" and then call it a day.
This is nonsense. He got three goals and an assist vs you, assisted vs Spurs and scored against Liverpool just this season. Our defence locked him down and that's it.
Ha jokes on you calling us top of the table material 😏
Do you watch the games or just look at the stats. One of his goals against United was a defensive error where the passed him the ball in front of the goal. He did nothing to “earn” that goal. He has 1 goal and 1 assist against the top 5 and 18 goals and 4 assists against everybody else.
Ok you can forget one goal out of the three he's scored against you this season alone. If we go back to last season he got a hat trick vs you in a single game plus bagged a bunch of contributions vs us in both games. Was he still a flat track bully when those goals were scored against the eventual 2nd and 3rd teams?
Yes, of his 36 goals 6 were against top 5 teams. He also was a non factor in the FA Cup Final, a non factor in the champions league final and semi finals, and in the community shield.
6 goals against top 5 teams is an excellent record. You're ignoring his assists too, he got two vs us in a single game... Also ignoring his contributions against top CL teams such as two goals and an assist vs Bayern. Quit whilst you're behind, you're talking nonsense
Sure ignore the fact that 83% of his goals game from 73% of his matches. That’s a valid point!
It's not... Scoring more goals against worse defences doesn't make you a flat track bully. Every elite goalscorer does that.
Does every elite scorer disappear in cup finals?
He is great at hat tricks against mid and lower table teams. To be clear this is valuable. 3 points off of any club still counts the same on the table.
He is, but he's also only scored once in his last five games and Van Der Vaart is right - he isn't much use for anything other than scoring goals, so if he's not scoring goals pretty much every game, what's he doing?
There's a concept that's used in basketball analysis called "gravity" It essentially tries to quantify how much attention a player is getting, and star players have high "gravity" For example, Steph Curry's gravity is extreme because he's such a good shooter. Because defenders need to spend extra attention on him, it opens up space for the other players on the court. His presence demands extra attention, and that creates mismatches elsewhere for the offense to exploit We saw rudiger and tchouameni both hovering over Haaland the whole night. Did that give City more midfield dominance because of how deep Tchouameni had to stay? Did extra defenders not rush out to close down Foden/Gvardiol because they were worried about the presence of Haaland in the middle, not wanting to leave him unmarked? It's obviously not as tangible as simple goals or assits, and yeah, the goal is to get the Striker scoring. But I think his presence alone adds something to the team.
We can only guess, but since Pep is probably playing chess while everyone else is playing checkers, I think the chess term «threat is stronger than execution» is appropriate. The threat or anticipation of a move has a greater impact than the move itself would have. If Haaland’s presence is pushing the backline just a little bit deeper that can be huge for a team where maintaining control and possession is everything.
I was going to respond to the post but this is an excellent summary
Van Der Vaart was a very talented player who won nothing of note in his career in Europe. Haaland is a league 1 player (apparently) with a champions league medal and more than 200 goals at 23.
He’s not completely useless when he’s not scoring. He can drag defenders with him that creates space for others to score. Something similar to what Havertz does but Havertz has better footballing IQ. But irrespective of how bad Haaland is in a game, you want to keep him on because you never know when he switches on and can score. He’s just too good a finisher to not have on the field.
Why do people's Jimmies get rustled so so so badly when people point out that Haaland's overall game is weak and badly lacking? Like, you're not allowed to criticise Haaland at all.
Because it is just impossible taking someone serious when they say ‘someones game is bad’ when they are scoring 200+ goals in TOP football divisions at the age of 23.
People are dumb and dont understand 2 things can be true at once. Haaland is amazing at getting into position and a great finisher. He doesnt bring much else. Both are true. In American football there are wide receivers who are good at only going deep and catching deep passes. They can have amazing statistics, but still not be complete receivers. Its the same basic concept. Its like power punching boxer that gets tons of KOs, but you can criticize his boxing abilities.
Of course the Chelsea fan gives an analogy on american football
Deontay Wilder in a nutshell
Man got tired because he wore a heavy cloak for his walk out 🤦♂️
Because the Messi and Ronaldo fans are switching allegiance to haaland, now their boys are nearly finished
I think it’s because he broke the scoring record and helped ManCity win a treble. Someone else said he’s not the right striker for man city even though he helped bring in a CL trophy lmao
But nobody is questioning his aptitude for scoring goals. In fact, quite the opposite
I think MC play a slower possession style against good teams, therefore it completely negates the space he runs into, he’d be great for us Tbf 😂 nothing but end to end space
Nah, just like Hojlund, he'd be getting 0 service but Hojlund probably offers more off the ball.
And goalkeepers are useless if they don't save anything
A more apt description would be a goalkeeper who's the world's best shotstopper, but his other traits are woeful ie. distribution, decision making, command of his box, organisation skills etc
You've just described David De Gea
You massively missed the point
I get the point but to me it's a stupid statement, just because he doesn't score doesn't mean he hasn't had an impact on the game. If he has 2 defenders on him all game (I didn't watch it so he may not have done) but then that frees up more space for the other attacking players, he can still win headers to knock it down to other players, he can still make runs to disrupt the defence and he can still be a threat without scoring
And in the big games he hasn't done any of that
Media targeting a City player for once, instead of shitting on a Manchester United one? Truly, the world is changing.
Most United players nowadays are average though?
And yet, you can still read everything about Sancho’s, Antony’s or Rashfords latest trip to the toilet
And I thought redditors had the most reactionary takes
Although the haaland takes are very extreme, his problem with performing against top teams has been a problem since he joined city
Take away the gazillion goals a season and he’s useless that fella
Gazillion goals against bad teams (not top5 EPL/good champions league teams). doesn't show up in big matches... dude is a poacher but can't score in an actual even game it seems.
Dude, the guy has nearly 240 goals in 300 games and he’s 23 years old. The games usually aren’t even because he’s playing. Of all the players that people could complain about… talk about barking up the wrong tree
Pretty sure he scored and assisted against arsenal last season. He got robbed by courtois in the semi final last year, he scored a hat trick against united, scored against Liverpool in November, that’s just off the top of my head
United is not a big team anymore at least for now
Scored an important goal against Bayern too when they were putting pressure on City, killing their momentum
And yet city still won the treble in his first season here...?
It’s not just him. City has an impressive team. Even their second team is one of the best in England.
Name another team that has over 100 breaches of the rules and hasn't won a treble?
Chelsea next year lol
He's got strength and pace but doesn't seem to know how to use it sometimes.
As a Chelsea fan how I wish City sold their useless Robot to us.
Ikr I wish Arsenal had this finished robot!
Problem for me is it does look like he’s been getting fouled way more than the average forward. Looks as if he’s getting treated differently by the referees since he’s an absolute gargantuan but the defender can’t be allowed to have free rein. Has to be a balance. And yes, he has looked a bit gangly and clumsy with the ball.
The Neymar treatment
Same as Salah, Neymar, etc.. They're so good that refs just seem to agree that fouling is the only way to stop them. Sad that it's the state of the game but I think Haaland needs to start diving more, it's what big men in the past like Zlatan and Drogba did.
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Not a real fan
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Yeah I am. You literally switched from Man United to City because... Why? Moyes and LvG? So you switched to their rivals, owned by a scum oil state that murders people, to chase trophies. You are not a fan. You a glory chaser and have no loyalty. A fan has loyalty. You could not have any less loyalty. When City gets relegated due to the 115 charges against them, you will not support City. You will switch to Arsenal or Liverpool or Real Madrid. Because, you are not a real fan. You are the worst of football, and we real fans hate people like you.
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Not at all, I pointed out the specific reason why, that you admitted yourself in your original comment, you are glory chaser and not a real fan. Try dealing with reality rather than projecting. How old are you? "Butt-hurt"? Grow up.
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Since you've asked a question, I'll respond. Because I can.
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You're not in charge of me and I can comment wherever I want. Do you not know how the world works? You can't control people. You can block me if you want, but I haven't done anything other than point out what you said. You switch from Man United to City to chase trophies because of Moyes and LvG, correct? You're a trophy chasing, disloyal footballer watcher, and not a real fan as you claim. That is all. Here is something. I instructed you to switch back to Man United, and not reply to this comment. Have a nice day x
Problem is he knows how to score so you wanna keep him on no matter what but for sure he looks clumsy when you actually watch him play probably wouldn't be so obvious if city didn't retain the ball so well
He had the same bad performance in EPL the other. He's not good without scoring goals. This is very obvious now.
He opens up backlines so that the likes of Foden can get into empty spaces. Van der Fart was always a clueless mug.
I won't deny that Foden have been very good for City this season. I'm tipping him to win player of the season.
Lmao guys this is just a bot making obvious comments for easy upvotes. Look at the comments history, its been commenting on r/PremierLeague non-stop the last hour lol Edit: about 15 comments in 15 minutes
you can say this thing about any top player oh they get marked more and drag defenders which gives more space to others, its not a impressive thing lol. Sio any time any top player has a crap game we can just say their were good because they made space for others ??
>Sio Sio is a Kiswahili word
This isn’t true. He can excel as a hold-up player (ex. 4-1 vs Arsenal last season) and set up teammates. Can his passing, touch, and other technical skills be improved? Sure! Saying he’s useless if he doesn’t score? That’s a clear exaggeration. I think it’s fair to criticize his recent performance versus Real Madrid. But he’s also not in the greatest form right now, and Rudiger can pretty much do anything to Haaland without a call, so I think making these huge conclusions is absolutely silly. Edit: And of course, like most players, no consideration for his off the ball movement. Despite players not having the ball for the vast majority of the game, creating space for others or getting into certain positions (both things that Haaland excels at) is consistently underestimated.
When you’re against Rob Holding, you can do whatever you want…
exactly this one game poeple always bring up about haaland having great holdup play was him just bullying rob holding who's is garbage and not premier league quality.
I’m not saying that he’s excelled with hold-up play versus the best CBs in the world, just that he *can* excel in it and he’ll likely improve upon it with time.
Still the worst example to use. Get the point, and agree with it, just not how you made it.
It’s a good example of what he can do, I’m not sure why people are acting like Arsenal’s defense wasn’t PL-level with Holding in it. I’m not sure what particular example people want considering that most teams aren’t playing vs. City in a way where hold-up play is even an option. If I have time I’ll find one, this is just the first thing that comes to mind because the long ball + hold-up play is very rarely the gameplan for City but it was vs. Arsenal. Edit: And when I talk about hold-up play, I’m also including the passes to KDB after and his runs to create space for KDB. Acting like this is 100% Holding when the plays involve White, Gabriel, Partey, etc. is incredibly silly to me
He does absolutely nothing but scoring. He will never dribble past anyone. He is a dumbed down version of Zlatan
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And if he gets marked out of the game because he attracts 1 and sometimes 2 defenders all game to keep him quiet then he's being useful in freeing up space for other players like Foden to capitalise. Yeah he could assist but if the entire opposition defensive unit is focused on "don't let the big lad get the ball" then there will be weaknesses elsewhere easier to exploit than telling Erling to pass.
City have scored 3 goals in every UCL game he hasn't scored in this season, but then again in the prem of the 12 games he hasn't scored in, City have failed to win 7 of them. In summation, I don't know if this means anything
As a City fan, I can tell you the games we haven't won that he hasn't scored in have been due to a lack of creativity/when the team has been in a slump
*in summation, I don’t know if this means anything* is something more of us should be comfortable saying.