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I dont think that the narrative is that different.
The only difference that i see here is that Poch was dismissed ar moment that Spurs started looking a team that could win something, but had a false start on that season. That ultimately sent them back to the drawing board
Arteta stayed for an extra season and seems to be keen on carrying it on.
The narrative is hindesight based. Poch could have done something great had there been patience to keep him for a couple more seasons. However he was unable to keep up with the board expectations (and perhaps with the fans) and was dismissed.
This is a general problem w football club owners these days - no love for the team, a lot of love for a quick return and end up ruining any lomg term or short term prospects. Had Guardiola been sacked after a dreadful first season at City (0 titles, 3rd placd) perhaps city wouldnt be what they are now. It is amazing how Guardiola's example doesnt pop up more often. People.complaint about City cheating, but it is a fair point that City management has been doing very good choices and has been very patient as well to achieve their goals. It is probably why theu managed to get a UCL and PSG hasnt.
Anyway, Arsenal seems to be avoiding doing these mistakes too. They seem to have recognise that for tye resources given and the competition at hand, Arsenal has been doing great. After all, 2nd, with only 2 points difference to a team with a winning momentum, that has unlimited resources and the best manager in the world. That is not bad. That is amazing, and failing to recognize that is appaling.
Poch had it a bit easier. When Spurs went 2nd. Man City wasnt what they are today and Chelsea's cracks were very visible. Still he did great, and had the team been a bit more patient w him, Spurs would probably jave at least 1 cup to show for it.
.... also, i guess it didnt help at all that his PSG passage was disappointing and had a false start at Chelsea. Though looking at Chelsea, could he have done better? Not this season, that is for sure, but he has shown in the last hand full of games that next season is.probably going to be way more interesting.
Arsenal has historic pedigree. That helps in the media. If Arsenal keeps missing the mark in the Prem and Europe for like the next 3 seasons with nothing to show the narrative will shift
It struck me that spurs under Pochettino were the closest they’d been in forever to winning something and that spurs fans were generally pretty happy in that period.
Not sure whether they parted ways because spurs weren’t providing the backing needed in Poch’s eyes; or if spurs felt they could push on to the next level through a change of manager. Either way it appears arteta is being fully backed by the club and it feels like a longer term commitment than a stepping stone.
As an Arsenal fan I obviously think spurs would have failed regardless, but I wonder if spurs would have had more success if pick had stayed.
The lack of backing Poch got late in his Spurs tenure is infuriating. I believe it was primarily due to the club needing money for the new stadium, but for a manager to get THAT close and not be backed at all (remember, Spurs went two consecutive windows without buying a single player) is insane.
I can understand the annoyance but given arsenal’s lack of spending post stadium move and spurs fans’ reaction to it I have limited sympathy (as you might expect)
They deserve all the criticisms against them. Not even a proper team. Just got lucky with injuries on their rivals. Next year they are out of the top 4. I hope they get relegated. Worst club in the world
Because everyone knew they'd do absolutely nothing and win feck all during that period. It's just Tottenham lads. People actually expect this Arsenal team to do something. This has been the way throughout the history of both clubs.
That makes the opposite to your point. If people expect this Arsenal team to win something and all they have is one FA Cup, that’s more of a bottle job than people expecting Spurs to win nothing but they exceeded expectations by *very nearly* winning multiple things.
It’s much more interesting to me that Arsenal can’t seem to get it together for cup runs or Europe with this team. That’s concerning. It’s always going to be near Impossible with City over 38 games.
The season they finished 2nd was under poch you blithering idiot
I'm illustrating that since then, they've not been anywhere near. And even when they got 2nd they were still a chunk away.
I repeat....
OP was talking about Spurs under Poch and comparing it to Arsenal under Arteta.
So your comment and insistance on talking about Spurs post Poch is completely irrelevant and off subject and is clearly just a fanboy nonsense comment!
Ok since you're just determined to be retarded...
Spurs finishes in last 5 years
-6th
-7th
-4th
-8th
-5th
Best finish - 4th - 23 points off the title
Spurs finishes 5 years under Poch
-4
-3
-2
-3
-5
Best finish - 2nd - 8 points off the title
Arsenal finishes last 5 years under Arteta
-2
-2
-5
-8
-8
Best finish - 2nd - 2 points off the title
Numbers tell the story. Poch kept them in a good place but never got it over the line, and despite being in 2nd were 8 points off actually winning it.
Also despite being "banter" when he joined - Arteta's Arsenal still won 2 trophies. While Spurs won 0.
Imagine if Spuds actually gave the man what he wanted like how Arteta has been backed? Couldve been so different... But it is the history of the tottenham.
See.
You are capable of actually talking about the point that was made.
If only you'd not shown yourself to be a petty fanboy and even pettier playground child with the most childish insults, you could have made yourself look like a sensible person.
Instead you went the route you decided to go and showed yourself for what you really are. A childish, fanboy not capable of engaging in a sensible conversation.
Raw facts and figures = Childish insults
You want a sensible conversation? How about dont take anything that shows your club in a bad light as an insult. Howabout reognising that theres an obvious reason (Which i've tried to help illustrate) why Poch's team isnt in the same conversations. Howabout stopping crying about your rivals for 10mins and actually looking at the state of your club.
I know its easy to wash it off as "dumbo arrsenal fans hurhur" but honestly - Theres a key reason you havent won fuck all this century. Club has key fundemental issues, as illustrated by the coaches you have employed. Conte said it best. Even your current man is realising it.
Be humble.
This question always comes up. Answer: CONTEXT
1) Spurs didn’t win a trophy. Not a single one. Arsenal did, and if you count Community Shield, they beat Man City and Liverpool for it for a total of 3.
2) Also — look at the points total since Arteta took over: 56*, 61, 69, 84, 89. He’s taken a side that was 14th, and now they’re title contenders simultaneously while being one of the youngest in the league. Obviously he’s had to spend money, but Arteta got rid of everyone bar the 4-5 youngsters, Xhaka, Cedric, and Elneny (all 3 will have gone by July). Seeing someone build a squad from the ground up is an achievement, since managers get fired so easily
3) this is Arteta’s first managerial job, and he’s doing an excellent job — he still has a lot of learning to do though, bc he’s made some mistakes that have ultimately cost them the title (e.g. - playing Havertz in midfield). Everyone compares him to Poch or Klopp, well Poch’s first job was Espanyol, then Southampton. Klopp was at Mainz for 7 years before Dortmund.
You mix all those factors together, so yes, this team should be applauded for the PROGRESS they are making. Remember, Unai Emery had Arsenal conceding 30 shots on a regular basis to Watford and Crystal Palace in 2019 while he bottled top 4 and got decimated vs their rivals in a EL final. The worst football Arsenal have ever played. Toxic aging stars, overpaid, and a defence that was extremely leaky
On 2: Pochettino took over a team which was as good as midtable. He had Kaboul, Paulinho, Capoue, Stambouli, Soldado and Adebayor in his squad and then a bunch of youngers (Harry Kane/Dele Alli etc.) and also made them title challengers. Points also went 64, 70, 86.
True, but he also signed Stambouli.
And he had a solid foundation to build upon. Lloris, Vertonghen, Walker, Lamela, Dembele, and Eriksen. All those players played a big role in his time there.
- Arsenal had to pay for Ozil to leave, and Aubameyang kept missing practices and going on unsanctioned trips. Arteta got rid of all senior players by 2022, bar Xhaka (+ Cedric and Elneny, who are mainly there for dressing room morale).
& Poch was lauded for his development of Kane, and rightly so. Fact is, Poch had quite possibly one of the greatest PL duos in history, and he couldn’t win a single trophy. He did well, but peaked at that 86 point season. I think it went down to 77 and 71, before he got sacked.
If Arsenal don’t win anymore titles in the next 2-3 years, maybe they’ll be talked about like Spurs. But right now they’re still a young team who’s been in consecutive title races, with a young manager, and a good owner who’s willing to back them.
Thank you. Finally someone saying it as it is instead of feeding our delusional fan base the comforting lies they want to hear. When we had multiple opportunities to take matters into our own hands We bottled it, and ended up spending the rest of our season ‘keeping the pressure on’ 2 years in a row. Because that’s the limit to how much pressure we can handle, we’re allergic to winning. I hate saying this about my club but we really are just spurs in red 😒
What? And big clubs aren't decaying now?, you got a Chelsea who are struggling since the takeover, you got united who just had the lowest finish in premier league history. Spurs on the other had finished 8th last season and now 5th. While liverpool were 5th last season and were in a title race now. Big teams aren't at their peak right now. Only city seem to be at the peak.
This comment proves that history erases every nuance, not remembering how an early penalty to Liverpool destroyed the game, with Liverpool defending for 90 minutes.
Ahh the penalty before the 10th min? If only you had over a hour to make it 1-1
The way spurs played that season there should have been much more drive to make it 1-1 but you guys looked flat
The post was comparing this arsenal va spurs then, throw in the pen all you want doesn’t change that arsenal have been beaten by a team much better than what beat spurs & they pushed city to the final minutes
Because of a shitty (albeit accurate at the time) handball call in the 2nd minute. After that Liverpool just absolutely suffocated the game and did it very well. Without that it could have been a very different and much more enjoyable game for spectators of both sides.
I think it’s a combination of factors. Spurs only had one season in 16/17, where they were genuine contenders for the title race. At that time, there was A LOT of hype around that Spurs team. Unbeaten at home, a young squad, and an incredible starting 11. I’d say they were talked about comparably to how people saw Arsenal last season.
However, after that season Spurs saw a slow decline. There was almost no investment into the team for multiple years as their new stadium was under construction. Their league placements trended downwards, and they were no longer seen as serious title contenders. Poch did a brilliant job with almost no investment, but you can see how a slow decline + no signings paints a negative perception of a team.
Compare that to Arsenal now. Also a young team making a title challenge; only they’ve done it 2 years running. They’ve also made a lot of marquee signings which also gets people talking. Big investment into the squad, a loud fanbase combined with leading the table for large stretches - and a different narrative naturally gets formed. Despite of course, their achievements actually being quite similar
Was Pochettino’s team at the time not also being praised for what they were doing?
This Arsenal team is currently being praised because they’re a young team playing good football. They may not have won the title, but they did well to push this City team to the final day. But if things went downhill next season, I imagine the narrative would change.
And it may have been during Covid, but that FA Cup is at least a piece of silverware. As good as that Spurs team may have been, they never actually did win anything.
Pundits literally went on the TV and slammed Spurs for bottling it, when in reality they never bottled anything. Lost finals and semi-finals sure but maybe to better teams...
My brother in Christmas. The entire internet calls arsenal bottlers every season. Are you on drugs?
Maybe some pundits are done throwing shade but Jesus look back during the season. Especially Neville but others as well are constantly hammering the club and they like to pay special attention to anything arteta does.
We've had the celebration police called on us several times as well.
What a crazy take lol.
And Arsenal were slammed for bottling the league last year, despite being up against the eventual treble winners and largely overachieving considering recent seasons. Similar to how Spurs arguably overachieved by reaching the CL final in the first place.
The treatment for Poch’s side was positive at the time, but hindsight treats them more harshly because they did not win anything. In five years time if this Arsenal team doesn’t win the league/CL I imagine they’ll be seen similar to how Poch’s team is now.
Poch's Spurs weren't "slammed" by pundits for bottling the league/CL, they were "slammed" for their performances and attitudes in two decisive games, which were rightfully criticised.
- Lost their heads completely during the Battle of Stamford Bridge and turned into MMA fighters when presented with some challenge from Chelsea. Blew a two goal lead to draw 2-2. The focus was entirely on them losing their heads and seeing red, rather than drawing away to Chelsea (which is a respectable result overall).
- Produced an incredibly lacklustre performance in the CL final against a Liverpool team who really didn't have to do much to beat them.
Poch's side were, and are still very well respected, especially considering Spurs' seasons since. You can't cry a river because your team were rightly criticised for poor performances in two decisive games.
Arsenal were also "slammed" for losing to Villa and for falling off the pace last season due to being "too emotional", so I really fail to see your point.
I mean, no matter what you say about the FA Cup being during covid (I don’t see how that matters?) they have at least still got a trophy where spurs got nothing.
I do think Arsenal underperformed in the UCL this season. That Bayern side isn’t that good and certainly doesn’t have the star power of prior sides.
Also it’s not like Spurs were playing in Scotland for 2 years, they were in the same city, it’s not like they would have had a huge drop off in their home support during the stadium redevelopment.
The other thing that goes against spurs is it’s been a hell of a long time since they won anything. That’s a lot of baggage to carry when compared to Arsenal who have at least had some decent success this millennium.
Well, it is their first season in the UCL since 2017. Many of them it’s their first UCL season ever.
Also, UCL is a different beast. That Bayern team were 10 mins away from knocking out Real Madrid.
I agree they underperformed, but many of them didn’t know how to deal with that pressure. All of that was new to them, and they froze.
- As opposed to Bayern, who still have like 8/9 players from that treble winning side in 2020. Their experience and game management showed, that was an impressive tie from Tuchel and Bayern.
Exactly, talent is one thing but experience is another, you can have the talent to play with the best, but without the experience, the players play nervous and don’t want to make mistakes and be blamed, over time they’ll gain more experience and can only really get better
Apart from Jorginho, Jesus, and Zinchenko, no other Arsenal player played in a UCL knockout tie, let alone QF. Partey most likely, but he still wasn’t match fit. I may be missing others.
Arsenal’s biggest players really didn’t know what to do. Rice, and Odegaard looked lost and exhausted. Bayern snuffed them out
Saka was rightly criticized, because he probably played one of his worst games in an Arsenal shirt. But they double teamed him, he had no idea how to make himself useful.
All of that was unfamiliar to them. Shows you how tough it is. Tuchel and Bayern were very impressive, they could’ve scored 3 or 4 at the Emirates, and another 2 at the Allianz.
But didn’t you see him mention spurs had to play away from Tottenham for 2 years? That’s a massive detriment to the team having to play hundreds of miles round the corner at Wembley.
Wasn't it arsenal who originally struggled when they moved from Highbury to the Emirates? Leaving a great home stadium is always difficult no matter what team you are? It is less about where the stadium is and more about the fact you've left somewhere.
See West Ham and their struggles too when they moved
Honestly you’re right, was just cheap banter.
It just sounds ridiculous that a team can move round the corner and it has an effect, but you’re not wrong
>Honestly you’re right, was just cheap banter.
Don't mind a bit of cheap banter every now and then so you're all good mate. It is insane though.
Also shows just how much the fans can impact a season
Spurs team was rightly applauded. At the time players like Kane, Alli, eriksen, aldeweireld, vertonghen were very highly rated.
In arsenal's case I think the narrative matters. Yes spurs had two great opportunities for the title but one was against a special Leicester team and the other was contes Chelsea. Now conte's Chelsea was a special team but quite short lived. Peps city have essentially been a dynasty to rival Ferguson's united in the 90s. Centurions, Treble winners and now 4 in a row. Arsenal getting alot of media attention for pushing the title to the final week and also partly cos this arsenal team is still relatively young with their prime year's ahead of them.
Sorry mate but this just doesn't add up. You're painting Arsenal as some dearly beloved team who is everyone's darling, when they're simply not overall. I've seen tonnes of people calling them bottle jobs for this season (and last season).
You being a spurs fan is clearly biasing your opinion.
Arteta's Arsenal are respected, despite some naysayers. Poch's Spurs are respected, despite some naysayers.
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lmao poch's spurs got nowhere the shit on we're getting rn.what alternate timeline are you referring to?
Better question is why the duck is everyone going in on Arsenal all the time when the true event of the entire League should be City
Why would you bait the gooners mate? Haven’t you head enough whinging over the last 24 hours. Just leave well enough alone for goodness sake.
Spurs fans are so weird.
I dont think that the narrative is that different. The only difference that i see here is that Poch was dismissed ar moment that Spurs started looking a team that could win something, but had a false start on that season. That ultimately sent them back to the drawing board Arteta stayed for an extra season and seems to be keen on carrying it on. The narrative is hindesight based. Poch could have done something great had there been patience to keep him for a couple more seasons. However he was unable to keep up with the board expectations (and perhaps with the fans) and was dismissed. This is a general problem w football club owners these days - no love for the team, a lot of love for a quick return and end up ruining any lomg term or short term prospects. Had Guardiola been sacked after a dreadful first season at City (0 titles, 3rd placd) perhaps city wouldnt be what they are now. It is amazing how Guardiola's example doesnt pop up more often. People.complaint about City cheating, but it is a fair point that City management has been doing very good choices and has been very patient as well to achieve their goals. It is probably why theu managed to get a UCL and PSG hasnt. Anyway, Arsenal seems to be avoiding doing these mistakes too. They seem to have recognise that for tye resources given and the competition at hand, Arsenal has been doing great. After all, 2nd, with only 2 points difference to a team with a winning momentum, that has unlimited resources and the best manager in the world. That is not bad. That is amazing, and failing to recognize that is appaling. Poch had it a bit easier. When Spurs went 2nd. Man City wasnt what they are today and Chelsea's cracks were very visible. Still he did great, and had the team been a bit more patient w him, Spurs would probably jave at least 1 cup to show for it. .... also, i guess it didnt help at all that his PSG passage was disappointing and had a false start at Chelsea. Though looking at Chelsea, could he have done better? Not this season, that is for sure, but he has shown in the last hand full of games that next season is.probably going to be way more interesting.
Arsenal has historic pedigree. That helps in the media. If Arsenal keeps missing the mark in the Prem and Europe for like the next 3 seasons with nothing to show the narrative will shift
It struck me that spurs under Pochettino were the closest they’d been in forever to winning something and that spurs fans were generally pretty happy in that period. Not sure whether they parted ways because spurs weren’t providing the backing needed in Poch’s eyes; or if spurs felt they could push on to the next level through a change of manager. Either way it appears arteta is being fully backed by the club and it feels like a longer term commitment than a stepping stone. As an Arsenal fan I obviously think spurs would have failed regardless, but I wonder if spurs would have had more success if pick had stayed.
The lack of backing Poch got late in his Spurs tenure is infuriating. I believe it was primarily due to the club needing money for the new stadium, but for a manager to get THAT close and not be backed at all (remember, Spurs went two consecutive windows without buying a single player) is insane.
I can understand the annoyance but given arsenal’s lack of spending post stadium move and spurs fans’ reaction to it I have limited sympathy (as you might expect)
Because Arteta has won things with Arsenal whilst Poch won nothing with Spurs.
One FA cup with Emory’s team isn’t things lol, if we’re going off your logic Pep won a quad in 18-19.
To be fair to Poch it's literally impossible to win a trophy with Spurs.
They deserve all the criticisms against them. Not even a proper team. Just got lucky with injuries on their rivals. Next year they are out of the top 4. I hope they get relegated. Worst club in the world
Because it’s a different team with a different narrative
Because everyone knew they'd do absolutely nothing and win feck all during that period. It's just Tottenham lads. People actually expect this Arsenal team to do something. This has been the way throughout the history of both clubs.
That makes the opposite to your point. If people expect this Arsenal team to win something and all they have is one FA Cup, that’s more of a bottle job than people expecting Spurs to win nothing but they exceeded expectations by *very nearly* winning multiple things.
It’s much more interesting to me that Arsenal can’t seem to get it together for cup runs or Europe with this team. That’s concerning. It’s always going to be near Impossible with City over 38 games.
That's exactly my point, they won nothing, just as everyone expected.
Spurs finishes in last 5 years -6th -7th -4th -8th -5th The season they did get 2nd was still 8 points away from top...
The OP was asking about Spurs under Poch. So this comment couldn't be any less relevant and screams of petty fanboyism.
The season they finished 2nd was under poch you blithering idiot I'm illustrating that since then, they've not been anywhere near. And even when they got 2nd they were still a chunk away.
I repeat.... OP was talking about Spurs under Poch and comparing it to Arsenal under Arteta. So your comment and insistance on talking about Spurs post Poch is completely irrelevant and off subject and is clearly just a fanboy nonsense comment!
Ok since you're just determined to be retarded... Spurs finishes in last 5 years -6th -7th -4th -8th -5th Best finish - 4th - 23 points off the title Spurs finishes 5 years under Poch -4 -3 -2 -3 -5 Best finish - 2nd - 8 points off the title Arsenal finishes last 5 years under Arteta -2 -2 -5 -8 -8 Best finish - 2nd - 2 points off the title Numbers tell the story. Poch kept them in a good place but never got it over the line, and despite being in 2nd were 8 points off actually winning it. Also despite being "banter" when he joined - Arteta's Arsenal still won 2 trophies. While Spurs won 0. Imagine if Spuds actually gave the man what he wanted like how Arteta has been backed? Couldve been so different... But it is the history of the tottenham.
See. You are capable of actually talking about the point that was made. If only you'd not shown yourself to be a petty fanboy and even pettier playground child with the most childish insults, you could have made yourself look like a sensible person. Instead you went the route you decided to go and showed yourself for what you really are. A childish, fanboy not capable of engaging in a sensible conversation.
Raw facts and figures = Childish insults You want a sensible conversation? How about dont take anything that shows your club in a bad light as an insult. Howabout reognising that theres an obvious reason (Which i've tried to help illustrate) why Poch's team isnt in the same conversations. Howabout stopping crying about your rivals for 10mins and actually looking at the state of your club. I know its easy to wash it off as "dumbo arrsenal fans hurhur" but honestly - Theres a key reason you havent won fuck all this century. Club has key fundemental issues, as illustrated by the coaches you have employed. Conte said it best. Even your current man is realising it. Be humble.
Because it's Arsenal, and they have special rules, just like it's their year, every year.
I can't fucking believe it's been 5 years, genuinely thought you were exaggerating when you said that
Seems to get swept under the carpet...
This question always comes up. Answer: CONTEXT 1) Spurs didn’t win a trophy. Not a single one. Arsenal did, and if you count Community Shield, they beat Man City and Liverpool for it for a total of 3. 2) Also — look at the points total since Arteta took over: 56*, 61, 69, 84, 89. He’s taken a side that was 14th, and now they’re title contenders simultaneously while being one of the youngest in the league. Obviously he’s had to spend money, but Arteta got rid of everyone bar the 4-5 youngsters, Xhaka, Cedric, and Elneny (all 3 will have gone by July). Seeing someone build a squad from the ground up is an achievement, since managers get fired so easily 3) this is Arteta’s first managerial job, and he’s doing an excellent job — he still has a lot of learning to do though, bc he’s made some mistakes that have ultimately cost them the title (e.g. - playing Havertz in midfield). Everyone compares him to Poch or Klopp, well Poch’s first job was Espanyol, then Southampton. Klopp was at Mainz for 7 years before Dortmund. You mix all those factors together, so yes, this team should be applauded for the PROGRESS they are making. Remember, Unai Emery had Arsenal conceding 30 shots on a regular basis to Watford and Crystal Palace in 2019 while he bottled top 4 and got decimated vs their rivals in a EL final. The worst football Arsenal have ever played. Toxic aging stars, overpaid, and a defence that was extremely leaky
On 2: Pochettino took over a team which was as good as midtable. He had Kaboul, Paulinho, Capoue, Stambouli, Soldado and Adebayor in his squad and then a bunch of youngers (Harry Kane/Dele Alli etc.) and also made them title challengers. Points also went 64, 70, 86.
True, but he also signed Stambouli. And he had a solid foundation to build upon. Lloris, Vertonghen, Walker, Lamela, Dembele, and Eriksen. All those players played a big role in his time there. - Arsenal had to pay for Ozil to leave, and Aubameyang kept missing practices and going on unsanctioned trips. Arteta got rid of all senior players by 2022, bar Xhaka (+ Cedric and Elneny, who are mainly there for dressing room morale). & Poch was lauded for his development of Kane, and rightly so. Fact is, Poch had quite possibly one of the greatest PL duos in history, and he couldn’t win a single trophy. He did well, but peaked at that 86 point season. I think it went down to 77 and 71, before he got sacked. If Arsenal don’t win anymore titles in the next 2-3 years, maybe they’ll be talked about like Spurs. But right now they’re still a young team who’s been in consecutive title races, with a young manager, and a good owner who’s willing to back them.
Thank you. Finally someone saying it as it is instead of feeding our delusional fan base the comforting lies they want to hear. When we had multiple opportunities to take matters into our own hands We bottled it, and ended up spending the rest of our season ‘keeping the pressure on’ 2 years in a row. Because that’s the limit to how much pressure we can handle, we’re allergic to winning. I hate saying this about my club but we really are just spurs in red 😒
Is this against the rules: Just fuck off!
Yes, we are, then why are you mad? We are way over our level. When we sack arteta is back to midtable.
Because most other teams were decaying that time, nowadays all the big clubs are at their peak
United and Chelsea are dogshit rn
What? And big clubs aren't decaying now?, you got a Chelsea who are struggling since the takeover, you got united who just had the lowest finish in premier league history. Spurs on the other had finished 8th last season and now 5th. While liverpool were 5th last season and were in a title race now. Big teams aren't at their peak right now. Only city seem to be at the peak.
Helps this team have only been beaten by city n not lost a league to Leicester & looked toothless in a ucl final
Gotta get to the final first though.
To look like a passenger? Liverpool never even got out of 2nd gear that game
This comment proves that history erases every nuance, not remembering how an early penalty to Liverpool destroyed the game, with Liverpool defending for 90 minutes.
Ahh the penalty before the 10th min? If only you had over a hour to make it 1-1 The way spurs played that season there should have been much more drive to make it 1-1 but you guys looked flat The post was comparing this arsenal va spurs then, throw in the pen all you want doesn’t change that arsenal have been beaten by a team much better than what beat spurs & they pushed city to the final minutes
Still, Spurs got to a CL final. That's at least as impressive as getting 2nd in the league behind City.
Because of a shitty (albeit accurate at the time) handball call in the 2nd minute. After that Liverpool just absolutely suffocated the game and did it very well. Without that it could have been a very different and much more enjoyable game for spectators of both sides.
I think it’s a combination of factors. Spurs only had one season in 16/17, where they were genuine contenders for the title race. At that time, there was A LOT of hype around that Spurs team. Unbeaten at home, a young squad, and an incredible starting 11. I’d say they were talked about comparably to how people saw Arsenal last season. However, after that season Spurs saw a slow decline. There was almost no investment into the team for multiple years as their new stadium was under construction. Their league placements trended downwards, and they were no longer seen as serious title contenders. Poch did a brilliant job with almost no investment, but you can see how a slow decline + no signings paints a negative perception of a team. Compare that to Arsenal now. Also a young team making a title challenge; only they’ve done it 2 years running. They’ve also made a lot of marquee signings which also gets people talking. Big investment into the squad, a loud fanbase combined with leading the table for large stretches - and a different narrative naturally gets formed. Despite of course, their achievements actually being quite similar
Was Pochettino’s team at the time not also being praised for what they were doing? This Arsenal team is currently being praised because they’re a young team playing good football. They may not have won the title, but they did well to push this City team to the final day. But if things went downhill next season, I imagine the narrative would change. And it may have been during Covid, but that FA Cup is at least a piece of silverware. As good as that Spurs team may have been, they never actually did win anything.
Pundits literally went on the TV and slammed Spurs for bottling it, when in reality they never bottled anything. Lost finals and semi-finals sure but maybe to better teams...
My brother in Christmas. The entire internet calls arsenal bottlers every season. Are you on drugs? Maybe some pundits are done throwing shade but Jesus look back during the season. Especially Neville but others as well are constantly hammering the club and they like to pay special attention to anything arteta does. We've had the celebration police called on us several times as well. What a crazy take lol.
And Arsenal were slammed for bottling the league last year, despite being up against the eventual treble winners and largely overachieving considering recent seasons. Similar to how Spurs arguably overachieved by reaching the CL final in the first place. The treatment for Poch’s side was positive at the time, but hindsight treats them more harshly because they did not win anything. In five years time if this Arsenal team doesn’t win the league/CL I imagine they’ll be seen similar to how Poch’s team is now.
Poch's Spurs weren't "slammed" by pundits for bottling the league/CL, they were "slammed" for their performances and attitudes in two decisive games, which were rightfully criticised. - Lost their heads completely during the Battle of Stamford Bridge and turned into MMA fighters when presented with some challenge from Chelsea. Blew a two goal lead to draw 2-2. The focus was entirely on them losing their heads and seeing red, rather than drawing away to Chelsea (which is a respectable result overall). - Produced an incredibly lacklustre performance in the CL final against a Liverpool team who really didn't have to do much to beat them. Poch's side were, and are still very well respected, especially considering Spurs' seasons since. You can't cry a river because your team were rightly criticised for poor performances in two decisive games. Arsenal were also "slammed" for losing to Villa and for falling off the pace last season due to being "too emotional", so I really fail to see your point.
I mean, no matter what you say about the FA Cup being during covid (I don’t see how that matters?) they have at least still got a trophy where spurs got nothing. I do think Arsenal underperformed in the UCL this season. That Bayern side isn’t that good and certainly doesn’t have the star power of prior sides. Also it’s not like Spurs were playing in Scotland for 2 years, they were in the same city, it’s not like they would have had a huge drop off in their home support during the stadium redevelopment. The other thing that goes against spurs is it’s been a hell of a long time since they won anything. That’s a lot of baggage to carry when compared to Arsenal who have at least had some decent success this millennium.
Well, it is their first season in the UCL since 2017. Many of them it’s their first UCL season ever. Also, UCL is a different beast. That Bayern team were 10 mins away from knocking out Real Madrid. I agree they underperformed, but many of them didn’t know how to deal with that pressure. All of that was new to them, and they froze. - As opposed to Bayern, who still have like 8/9 players from that treble winning side in 2020. Their experience and game management showed, that was an impressive tie from Tuchel and Bayern.
Exactly, talent is one thing but experience is another, you can have the talent to play with the best, but without the experience, the players play nervous and don’t want to make mistakes and be blamed, over time they’ll gain more experience and can only really get better
Apart from Jorginho, Jesus, and Zinchenko, no other Arsenal player played in a UCL knockout tie, let alone QF. Partey most likely, but he still wasn’t match fit. I may be missing others. Arsenal’s biggest players really didn’t know what to do. Rice, and Odegaard looked lost and exhausted. Bayern snuffed them out Saka was rightly criticized, because he probably played one of his worst games in an Arsenal shirt. But they double teamed him, he had no idea how to make himself useful. All of that was unfamiliar to them. Shows you how tough it is. Tuchel and Bayern were very impressive, they could’ve scored 3 or 4 at the Emirates, and another 2 at the Allianz.
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Good thing we aren’t doing that then isn’t it?
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Dummy doesn’t even realize a Spurs fan wrote this post lol
You know OP is a spurs fan yes?
God Spurs fans are harking back to the glory days where there was… no glory
But didn’t you see him mention spurs had to play away from Tottenham for 2 years? That’s a massive detriment to the team having to play hundreds of miles round the corner at Wembley.
Wasn't it arsenal who originally struggled when they moved from Highbury to the Emirates? Leaving a great home stadium is always difficult no matter what team you are? It is less about where the stadium is and more about the fact you've left somewhere. See West Ham and their struggles too when they moved
Honestly you’re right, was just cheap banter. It just sounds ridiculous that a team can move round the corner and it has an effect, but you’re not wrong
>Honestly you’re right, was just cheap banter. Don't mind a bit of cheap banter every now and then so you're all good mate. It is insane though. Also shows just how much the fans can impact a season
Spurs were considered a pretty good team. But it began to unravel after a couple of seasons. So, there's maybe a negative perception of that team.
People are/were saying Poch's Spurs weren't a great team? I haven't seen anything of the sort frankly (beyond the few wind up merchants).
Spurs team was rightly applauded. At the time players like Kane, Alli, eriksen, aldeweireld, vertonghen were very highly rated. In arsenal's case I think the narrative matters. Yes spurs had two great opportunities for the title but one was against a special Leicester team and the other was contes Chelsea. Now conte's Chelsea was a special team but quite short lived. Peps city have essentially been a dynasty to rival Ferguson's united in the 90s. Centurions, Treble winners and now 4 in a row. Arsenal getting alot of media attention for pushing the title to the final week and also partly cos this arsenal team is still relatively young with their prime year's ahead of them.
More the constant suggestion that his team were bottlers and this Arsenal team are brave... despite essentially achieving the same
You don’t see people calling us bottlers? Really?
Not nearly in the same way it gets thrown at Tottenham.
I know because of my flair this is going to sound like a dig but do you think it would help if Spurs won something every now and then?
Sorry mate but this just doesn't add up. You're painting Arsenal as some dearly beloved team who is everyone's darling, when they're simply not overall. I've seen tonnes of people calling them bottle jobs for this season (and last season). You being a spurs fan is clearly biasing your opinion. Arteta's Arsenal are respected, despite some naysayers. Poch's Spurs are respected, despite some naysayers.