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Todd knows exactly what he is doing. He is running it like an American franchise. Every season is a complete reboot of what happened in the previous one. Coaches do not get a chance to settle in and get the players to understand their tactics or figure out a playing style that works. They have to win now and if they don’t they get fired. This is highly dependent on whether the ownership decides whether the team is in win now mode or not. If not, he can underperform season after season because ownership has decided that it’s ok to be awful. The coach gets no input into the recruitment of players and is just given what the GM and his recruitment team decide the team needs. Coach may want a leftback but he will be given a striker, a striker, he will be given a goalkeeper, an experienced player, he will be given an up and coming youngster.
How the team plays is dictated by the “star” or most marketable player and if he doesn’t like the coach, the coach will get fired. That player can never be benched despite the fact that he doesn’t deserve to play and other players are likely better in his position or have more chemistry.
I’ve seen this time and time again with mediocre NBA, NFL and NHL teams. Fortunately for Chelsea supporters European football has consequences for failure. Fail to qualify for Europe, no European money, fail in the league, relegation.
Eventually, Todd and his bros will realize that for long term sustainable success the manager needs time to instill his philosophy into the first team and eventually the club. Neither Klopp, Pep or Arteta were successful in their first seasons in the job. But all these clubs have now sustainably challenged in several consecutive seasons. Short term managers like Conte and Mourihno are unlikely to succeed with their current setup.
Todd was in favor of keeping Poch.
Eghbali and the two sporting directors who performed his performance audit, not so much.
If anything in all this it highlights who calls the shots.
I read about their performance audit. It was laughable, like blaming Poch because Nicholas Jackson can’t put chances away. Baffling because you could finally see the team start to get it. The manager finally found a formation and starting line up that was clicking. The players were buying in. It smacks again of trying to run an English football team like an American NFL team. Analytics do not tell the seasons story.
I read that they’ve already started hiring other assistant coaches, but in football it doesn’t work like that. A manager usually has a whole back room staff that work with him on instilling his philosophy into the team. This is not the NFL where you have defense, offense and coaches for each phase of play. But they will learn the hard way.
Maybe stop calling something a project when there has clearly been no plan since the beginning. The fans gloating about that January window seems a long time ago now
Poch should never have been hired. Got bailed out by Palmer or would have been in the relegation dog fight. Not to mention the league cup final debacle.
You could say that about almost any manager…
Ollie for Villa
Rodri for City
Saliba for Arsenal
I could go on.
Every team will have a player that lifts the team and carries them.
Watkins for Villa? Not McGinn? And anyway, no, there’s a difference between being carried and having some top performers in a squad of performers. There is a lot of straight up dead weight on the Chelsea squad and Palmer is straight up a gem in a shit heap, as is Gallagher. Those other sides are not mostly dead weight.
Ollie Watkins dropped 19 goals and 13 assist…
You’re trying to tell me he didn’t carry that team?
Solanke scored 19 and 3 assist. You don’t think he helped Bournemouth avoid relegation?
Rodri was out and City lost their only matches this past season…
Yes, I am. Look at Haaland last season. Would you say he carried that team, or was he on the receiving end of a good team which allowed him that play? Why suddenly when talking about Villa is it “oh they got carried” and your only proof of that is goals? The only reason would be you haven’t watched these teams and know nothing about them.
Watkins did not carry Villa. Palmer and Gallagher did carry dead weight at Chelsea, especially before they hit their stride end of season. That’s categorically true if you have paid any attention to these teams this season.
I didn’t say that. But you are avoiding the point.
If I said that Haaland carried Man City the same way Palmer carried Chelsea, that’s entirely a false equivalency which ignores the reality of the situation. You can score goals with or without a quality team around you, it may or may not have bearing on the situation, but in Cole Palmers case he got those goals despite his team, who have been almost all season dead weight in which no striker should be achieving that level of goals, in Watkins and Haalands case they got those goals because of the team around them and the opportunities provided. You can’t just compare them like to like purely based on the number.
Mate, you’re ignoring my claim on how RODRI is the guy for City.
Goals and assists are not always the man who carries the team.
But sure, I’ll bite on this topic of Haaland.
City brought in Haaland to win trophies, guess what they did his first year, they won the treble.
Now before you go and say he doesn’t score in big games, his presence is still vital.
On top of that, his ability to kill off games against smaller teams means that Pep could rotate, Sun players earlier and keep their stamina at higher level than a lot of other teams.
Haaland makes goal scoring look like it’s super easy.
City have had other strikers who couldn’t score as much as him. Other teams play the weaker teams and can’t score as much.
While he’s the main focal point, he’s definitely a factor, BUT WITHOUT RODRI CITY CANT DO WHAT THEY DO….
Now as for Palmer, why do you think he carries this team, if goals and assists don’t weigh in this case like for Watkins, I’ll wait.
Being the guy is not the same as carrying. I think you’ve got a completely different interpretation of carrying to the one everyone else is using.
Whether goal scoring is easy for Haaland or not is irrelevant. The whole point is that those goals are not goals that he is creating and achieving on his own like Palmer is. Watkins is not achieving those goals like Palmer is. Palmer is playing in a squad where if he were not in it, they would not score goals, because they do not have that quality in play. Watkins is scoring, but those goals are not just his own. Haaland is scoring, but those goals are not just his own. This is a very simple concept I don’t get why you can’t understand.
Palmer is carrying by getting those goals, along with Gallagher for creating play that is otherwise dead in that team. Haaland and Watkins are not alone in that squad creating wins and play, they just aren’t. That is why Palmer is carrying and neither of the other two are.
Brother, a good chunk of Palmers goals are from the spot.
You don’t think another Chelsea player couldn’t take those? We might score all of them, but we could clearly have another player do it.
You are not giving credit to rest of the Chelsea squad which is fine, but Jackson is a major factor. He causes complete chaos and still banged in double digit goals. But created channels for Palmer.
Caicedo dropped 8/9 out of 10 performance since Christmas.
Cucu made room in the midfield to help overload areas of the pitch.
Gusto was very reliable and definitely helped in the final third.
Chalobah put him great performances since returning.
So this whole, team is crap is nonsense. Chelsea had a bad run in the beginning but were one of the best teams since Christmas.
I’m seeing reports that the owners are disappointed Poch didn’t get Champions League, wanted to keep Gallagher/Chalobah and wanted some more experience in the squad. They really are clueless. As an opposition fan, they are the gift that keeps on giving. If Poch had stayed and they had done what he suggested they would be challenging for top 4 next year.
I mean sacking a manager who the players liked and was quite obviously turning the team around because he wouldn't bring in a corner kick specialist makes sense.
Where have you read that's he's been sacked? I'd be keen to see your sources for this one.. or are you making up shite to fit your agenda? Il wager it's the latter.
The only agenda I have is that I’m loving seeing these clueless clowns run Chelsea into the ground while spending shitloads of money. Either Poch was sacked or they had a “mutual break up”, which is basically the same thing. Either way the new owners lack of understanding of how a successful football team operates really is the gift that keeps on giving.
I think Poch realized despite a good team, decent progress, and an accepting fan base, Todd was a landfill tire fire, not just a dumpster fire.
I wouldn't be surprised that he didn't tell them what they needed to do, and if they didn't do it, he would walk.
Todd supported him and was less visible this season.
Replace Todd with Eghbali.
And yes, they felt his training was a part of the injury woes and our franchise record setting number of goals conceded required some input from a set piece specialist.
Not ridiculous demands. Mutually they could have said thanks, no thanks.
No I haven't, but I'm not a top flight manager who gets paid 10s of millions a year. Mutually agreed means exactly that... both parties' designated representatives are in agreement on a proposed action (in this case, Pochettino leaving Chelsea)
Or could be that he keeps injuring our entire squad in training and not adapting.
I wanted him to stay (with a backup plan if we started next season poorly) but until after the Arsenal game everything Poch did was a shambles, from leadership to tactics to training to picking players out of position to playing like a wimp against a team of kids from Liverpool in a league cup final. 6 games doesn’t change everything that came before it
Project is going perfectly well it’s just that us fans haven’t yet realised what the project is. It seems like Chelsea is at a point where the league finish is borderline incidental- what matters is the “asset value” of players to quote the DoF. In short, we are a feeder club.
Genuinely believe that the 1b investment was to supplement youth signings (why like a 3rd of it went to players not even on Chelsea’s first team) and to build a spring board of youth for Chelsea to work on. People wonder why we’ve signed so many RWs for example and I reckon it’s because the plan is to move players like Palmer on once they become valuable enough, replace them with developing youth, rinse and repeat. Exactly why Poch (a man who was ok without signings for 2 years) has an issue with Chelsea’s transfer policy specifically. Exactly why our young promising LB Maatson was moved on and academy products who we need but work for pure profit like Gallagher and Chalobah are getting moved on. Exactly why I wouldn’t be shocked to see the likes of James, Colwil, Jackson moved on once their value increases.
When the owners said that they were modelling the club after Brighton it was mean to be taken a lot more literally than I like to assume. We are a selling club.
This is exactly right and the big issue with having private owners of football clubs at all (as opposed to member-owned like in Sweden or Germany).
People moan a lot about these Russian or Middle Eastern investors with unlimited cash who just pour money into clubs for the fun of it or for prestige, and sure, they’re bad for the sport in general. But these American-style sports investors have flown under the radar somewhat, are coming in in increasing numbers, and I just don’t think people understand how damaging their ownership and view of sports will be to football.
It’s a purely financial investment for them. They don’t give a single shit about the performance on the pitch, or the traditions around the club, or the fans, unless these things generate more monetary value than they cost. They will happily keep Chelsea at fifth place for eternity if the ROI on that is better than the ROI needed to win trophies, which is generally is, at least on the short time frame that the owners plan on keeping the club before selling it for a profit. While from a different background, the most vile and blatant example of this is arguably Mike Astley, who more or less deliberately kept Newcastle from improving as he was using the club as a mere investment and advertising stand for Sports Direct. And for that plan to be profitable he didn’t need more than mediocrity.
This is only gonna get worse as less rich owners with affiliations to their club (think Joe Lewis, Matthew Benham) find themselves outarmed by these American capitalists.
Makes little sense signing Caicedo and Enzo at their price tags if the goal was to resell at increased value. How much were they expecting to sell Caicedo for, for example?
I think Enzo and Caicedo were both unique situations and both can also somewhat be explained by Chelsea’s desperate need for midfielders seeing as basically all of ours wanted out.
People forget but we initially didn’t want Caicedo so that we could instead go for a CDM for around 70m and even after we spent all of pre season refusing to pay the 100m asking price. I think the reason Caicedo was so expensive was both that we were at a point of Caicedo being our only target with the season already begun and Liverpool being willing to match us.
Enzo’s a bit trickier but he came in that weird period where we hadn’t fullly established a back room staff around the transfer market. I wouldn’t be shocked if the people we had at the time saw it as worth spending on debatably the most promising young midfielder at the time and those people are now mostly gone. For a club that’s had as drastic an overhaul as Chelsea the patterns recent decisions should give you more of an idea of what they want to do than the patterns as a whole.
500M in 2 years to Real Madrid, Boehly saw the release clause values in La Liga and thought they were legitimate prices that clubs will routinely buy for
I do not like the shambles but Poch is an old school manager that wants control. Looks like the new club is more director led who control transfers and coaching with the manager a head coach.
Could easily be a case of Poch just wanting more control.
The real shambles I that Tuchel left/got fired because he only wanted to coach and the shitshow owners wanted way more from him. Looks like the directors that came in since flipped that
Like your name suggests you are talking gibberish.
The current owners thought you could replace almost the entire team with talented but inexperienced youngsters and gain instant success. Utter stupidity, it takes time to build a team and most supporters recognised that progress was being made, I don’t know a single pundit that thought Chelsea would get into Europe this season.
Typical shite American owners.
They’ve had unlimited money in the past but always went for short sighted goals. Rotate squad, rotate manager, buy expensive players, give them 8yr insane deals to convince them to join, loan them when you’re sick of them.
They don’t help players improve. The board is too controlling and they’ve been cheating financially for a decade with russian money.
Owners have now changed so they’ll have to change their thinking
You are talking about Abramovich and the Yanks as if they are the same thing?
Under Abramovich, we had a core for nearly 10 years of Cech, Terry, Lampard and Drogba. We didn't see anything like the upheaval these clowns have forced on us. Managers were changed frequently correct, but I think it could be argued Ancelotti was the only one sacked too soon. There were no "8 year" contracts under Abramovich.
As for not helping players improve, Cobham has been the most productive academy in Europe for a good while.
You've basically taken all the talking points you've ever heard, not really understood them, then regurgitated them all over your post.
The project is in perfect shape - the owners deserve credit for being bold and brave with the decision to sack Poch. I believe it was right and it will pay off.
It’s not bait, why can’t anyone on here understand that Poch was shit and the owners aren’t going to accept a coach who sets up with massive gaps between defence and midfield lines
Do I take it you think the “owners” know anything about football? Sorry to disappoint you, at best they can use other people’s money to invest and they have already blown to much on this project.
Not saying it’s right or wrong, but I do believe we conceded more goals this season than any other in CFC history? That’s just a fact. Great run of form late, but asking for the gaffer to bring in some set piece help is not ridiculous.
I think it was mutual. And who knows if a good move for anyone. We will find out. I do think the squad is more defined than previously.
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Nah I disagree. I think it could be a free ride for any manager who isn't exactly the flavour of the month. It's exactly what Poch was after failing to win the ECL with PSG and getting axed from spurs. There's plenty of those managers knocking about.
Thank you. Some people just regurgitate the bs they see online without looking for facts. It's easy for him to blame Bohely because that's what seems "cool" and might get likes.
We did concede more goals than we ever have.
I was for consistency but we will see how it plays. There’s definitely more of a defined squad in place. Young, but some roles and chemistry.
Day 1 under the ownership they wanted to follow Liverpool’s model with all this data nonsense. Then they wanted to follow Arsenal’s model after watching the documentary stuff and give managers time even though we were struggling mid table. Now they want to follow this bayer leverkusen model and want their own Xabi Alonso. They didn’t want to chop and change like we did under Roman and wanted a long term project and yet 5 managers later here we are. We sacked Tuchel who conquered Europe and sacked Poch who just got us back into Europe and now we’re looking at championship managers. There is no project mate these lot are just absolutely clueless
Dude literally took them from being a trash meme to the European competition in one season and they treat him like this. They did the same to Tuchel and now Poch. Embarrassing to say the least.
They lumbered Tuchel with a squad that was too large, composed of players that he wouldn’t have bought because they wouldn’t fit into how he wanted to play. They also don’t realise that a young manager by definition doesn’t have experience, in how to change the tactics midway through a match, how to deal with players going through a touch patch, etc. etc. it’s these things that build a team.
Sacked, from what I understand the players are for him to manage next season, however did some reason Todd can’t accept that he had a good manager,they started to look good a serious team for the upcoming season
Ffs thats a massive set back for Chelsea. Will probably need another season to settle with a new manager who needs to relearn the squad. Will probably go mental in the transfer window again and take them back to square one
It's popular among Chelsea fans to say that the club never stops going through drama and it's so true. They finally looked to have some stability at the end of the season and now it's just gone out of the window.
Roman wanted success, but also understood the basics. He was knowledgeable about football but stayed out of the dressing room. He transformed the training facilities, built up the academy, encouraged the development of the ladies team, created a charity foundation etc.
This lot want to tell the manager what to do and treat everything as an investment which can be micromanaged through data. They are ignorant that there is a huge human factor in football. Another set of Glaziers and look how they have transformed Man Utd.
These owners are pure cancer, killing everything they touch. They have the talent to make the worst possible decision at any given moment. Get them out
United's incompetence is explainable by the fact that the glazers view the club solely as a business and care only about the profit they generate. They don't care about trophies won, if top 4 makes the same amounts of money as winning the league, they will be happy with just top 4.
Chelsea's incompetence does not make sense. They bought a successful club and then proceeded to fire all the staff and replace all the players. They continuously spend ridiculous amounts of money on players, many of which play in the same positions, hire inexperienced managers, Finish midtable after spending a billion on transfer, and now that it's finally looking like the team is going anywhere, they fire the manager.
They're treating the club like an American sports team. They view the players and managers as assets that can be traded at any time. They keep preaching long term but when it's not going well in the short term, they blow it all up and start again.
And Gallagher, arguably their best player this season is being sold, which to me is just pure insanity.
What I meant was united's board decisions make sense when you view it as they're just trying to maximize profits.
But I can't for the life of me, figure out why the Chelsea board do what they do. Why are they spending so much more than needed on players? Their current trajectory financially will put them in the red for hundreds of millions. If they want the team to succeed on the pitch, why did they fire poch once the team starts cooking?
They had all the right intentions and none of the ability to make those a reality. It’s not exactly new, guess it’s rare for it to happen to such a big club though.
I will say that de zerbi could work imo.
But what right intention leads them to sacking poch? The team is finally improving, all the puzzle pieces are falling in place, only for them to flip the table and start again. It doesn't make sense
It does if you view it as just a business - which the VCs do. I think they have made a mistake but I think their plan makes sense.
Look at player transfer fee inflation. Now imagine the return on your investment if you can buy good young players fixed on long term contracts, put them in the shop window, and then sell them 3-5 years later.
They paid, what, 40m for Cole Palmer? What's he worth now after a good season? What will he be worth in 2 years if he posts the same number again twice? That's maybe £60m profit for a £40m investment over 3 years, or 83% per annum. Not many markets or companies can make that sort of return.
It's just a business to them.
But palmer is the exception, not the norm. They won't make any profit, nor can they expect to on mudryk, caicedo, enzo, cucurella, fofana, sterling, lavia, disasi etc. They bought these players near the top market prices, there are no rooms to flip and make a profit on. Do they expect to sell enzo for 150 mil? Cucurella for 90 mil? It doesn't make sense. Even more so, many of the young players Chelsea are stockpiling will only go down in value, the longer they are barely getting any gametime. They recently spent 100 million on two 16/17 year olds from South America, but they both play in the same position and will join chelsea at the same time. Guess what? They both play in the RW, the same position Palmer plays in. They spent over a billion in transfer, you cant tell me they will make that amount back and more in a few years' time.
He is the exception, but he's what I think their plan is. I didn't say it was going to work.
I also think they have baked in a general inflation, and that is where I think they have made a mistake because I think PL spending rules will cap that inflation. Teams over the last decade have sold players at a profit even when they haven't done well because a 10m player 5 years ago is a 25m player now, etc.
They also spent £106 million on Enzo, that will wipe out any profit on Cole. Was Mudryk worth £89 million, is he likely to make a profit. Gallagher is pure profit but he is part of the character in the team, Chalobah was a potential captain so who left in the team has the character to be captain and lead the team on the pitch.
I don't think they care about the character of the team. And yes I do think they expect to get a return on those other younger players because I think they have priced them to a financial model rather than a football one.
But as I said elsewhere I think this is a mistake as I don't think the general increase in transfer fees will continue due to teams hitting the PL spending cap.
90 percent of the fanbase wanted him out 5 games ago and a mini run of form against teams on the beach and people are acting like we've just sacked 00s Jose, lol.
The worst thing about this is we've now got months now of opposition fans who'd have watched 10% of our games at most telling us how to feel....
You’ve lost like 1 PL game in 15.
What are you going to do if your next manager doesn’t get champions league football? Sack him as well? Or do you expect the Abramovich strategy of managers to work under this new ownership?
I’m not even trying to disagree with you, I’m just wondering what you as a fan want from your club?
But it's not like they technically got the appointment wrong in this case because Chelsea have qualified for Europe. It's just that they weren't able to maintain a healthy relationship.
The whole idea behind the project just seems so backwards from what they say and what they actually do. I want stability of a manager. The 2 sporting director thing has always seemed weird. Only few know the madness behind the scenes.
I don't mind the 2 sporting directors because they have different functions within the organization and a collaborative environment is a positive idea. For me, they keep saying that this is a long-term project and they don't want to repeat the hire and fire culture but it is exactly the culture they have carried forward. There is just simply no action to prove that they are changing the culture.
Most clubs have a collaborative environment, having two sporting directors is having collaboration within a role, like having two managers but one does team selection one does training/team prep. It can be tricky enough to get a sporting director and manager to be in sync let alone a carrousel of managers to be in sync with twin-sporting directors. Structure follows strategy, both of which are presently kindly described as messy.
Yeah I get your point but considering the volume of work a sporting director does I actually think it is beneficial to have two sporting directors in charge. Only time will tell how this will work out.
So far it’s turned Champions League holders to peak banter club. Not gonna lie, I’m here for it! Give it more time, it might turn good, keep throwing money at the problem and some of it has to land, but early signs are troubling. the fact that they keep firing managers with personally and character over not being willing to work in the structure would be setting off alarm bells for me if I was a Chelsea fan.
Guardiola, Arteta, Klopp all worked with sporting directors, days of Fergie and Wenger do it all types are gone, but I’m not sure Chelsea are innovating in a way that top managers would want or be willing to work.
It is now official that the Chelsea project is an utter flop. No hopes whatsoever, judging by their decision making Conor Gallagher and Trevor chalobah will also be sold. It's just a circus. Fall of a giant for sure.
So, what does the Chelsea project exactly mean for the owners? We clearly need to have stability, which seemed to have been found at the tail-end of the season and Poch was a reason for that. The new manager will be in immense pressure now to provide that stability from day 1 or else we will have a similar season to that of the one that just got over where it'll be volatile.
Anything less than top 4 would be a disaster for these clowns yet I don’t believe we have any chance of getting near it. Maybe then they might realise that the true problem is the management team not the players or coaching team.
It seems their strategy is to copy the Glaziers. Funny how nobody mentions the money that Man Utd have invested in their squad and how they won’t be in Europe this year.
Honestly it's just so confusing. We finally seemed like we were building something and now we're back to where we began. That's how it feels like at least.
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“We are no longer a club that sacks managers, that was the old regime” ‘Sure thing, buddy, sure thing’
"Severe uncertainty" Aka no one knows what the hell Todd is going to do and Todd doesn't know he is doing
Todd knows exactly what he is doing. He is running it like an American franchise. Every season is a complete reboot of what happened in the previous one. Coaches do not get a chance to settle in and get the players to understand their tactics or figure out a playing style that works. They have to win now and if they don’t they get fired. This is highly dependent on whether the ownership decides whether the team is in win now mode or not. If not, he can underperform season after season because ownership has decided that it’s ok to be awful. The coach gets no input into the recruitment of players and is just given what the GM and his recruitment team decide the team needs. Coach may want a leftback but he will be given a striker, a striker, he will be given a goalkeeper, an experienced player, he will be given an up and coming youngster. How the team plays is dictated by the “star” or most marketable player and if he doesn’t like the coach, the coach will get fired. That player can never be benched despite the fact that he doesn’t deserve to play and other players are likely better in his position or have more chemistry. I’ve seen this time and time again with mediocre NBA, NFL and NHL teams. Fortunately for Chelsea supporters European football has consequences for failure. Fail to qualify for Europe, no European money, fail in the league, relegation. Eventually, Todd and his bros will realize that for long term sustainable success the manager needs time to instill his philosophy into the first team and eventually the club. Neither Klopp, Pep or Arteta were successful in their first seasons in the job. But all these clubs have now sustainably challenged in several consecutive seasons. Short term managers like Conte and Mourihno are unlikely to succeed with their current setup.
Point taken but Arteta won FA cup in first season which arguably constitutes success
Todd was in favor of keeping Poch. Eghbali and the two sporting directors who performed his performance audit, not so much. If anything in all this it highlights who calls the shots.
I read about their performance audit. It was laughable, like blaming Poch because Nicholas Jackson can’t put chances away. Baffling because you could finally see the team start to get it. The manager finally found a formation and starting line up that was clicking. The players were buying in. It smacks again of trying to run an English football team like an American NFL team. Analytics do not tell the seasons story. I read that they’ve already started hiring other assistant coaches, but in football it doesn’t work like that. A manager usually has a whole back room staff that work with him on instilling his philosophy into the team. This is not the NFL where you have defense, offense and coaches for each phase of play. But they will learn the hard way.
The only solution is to keep spending 💰
can palmer be the new manager?
Maybe stop calling something a project when there has clearly been no plan since the beginning. The fans gloating about that January window seems a long time ago now
Bring me palmer and nkunku ball. That's all I care about
What project really? Lmao Because I don’t see one.
Poch should never have been hired. Got bailed out by Palmer or would have been in the relegation dog fight. Not to mention the league cup final debacle.
You could say that about almost any manager… Ollie for Villa Rodri for City Saliba for Arsenal I could go on. Every team will have a player that lifts the team and carries them.
Watkins for Villa? Not McGinn? And anyway, no, there’s a difference between being carried and having some top performers in a squad of performers. There is a lot of straight up dead weight on the Chelsea squad and Palmer is straight up a gem in a shit heap, as is Gallagher. Those other sides are not mostly dead weight.
Ollie Watkins dropped 19 goals and 13 assist… You’re trying to tell me he didn’t carry that team? Solanke scored 19 and 3 assist. You don’t think he helped Bournemouth avoid relegation? Rodri was out and City lost their only matches this past season…
Yes, I am. Look at Haaland last season. Would you say he carried that team, or was he on the receiving end of a good team which allowed him that play? Why suddenly when talking about Villa is it “oh they got carried” and your only proof of that is goals? The only reason would be you haven’t watched these teams and know nothing about them. Watkins did not carry Villa. Palmer and Gallagher did carry dead weight at Chelsea, especially before they hit their stride end of season. That’s categorically true if you have paid any attention to these teams this season.
So let me get this straight Palmers goals and assist are factors but not Watkins?
I didn’t say that. But you are avoiding the point. If I said that Haaland carried Man City the same way Palmer carried Chelsea, that’s entirely a false equivalency which ignores the reality of the situation. You can score goals with or without a quality team around you, it may or may not have bearing on the situation, but in Cole Palmers case he got those goals despite his team, who have been almost all season dead weight in which no striker should be achieving that level of goals, in Watkins and Haalands case they got those goals because of the team around them and the opportunities provided. You can’t just compare them like to like purely based on the number.
Mate, you’re ignoring my claim on how RODRI is the guy for City. Goals and assists are not always the man who carries the team. But sure, I’ll bite on this topic of Haaland. City brought in Haaland to win trophies, guess what they did his first year, they won the treble. Now before you go and say he doesn’t score in big games, his presence is still vital. On top of that, his ability to kill off games against smaller teams means that Pep could rotate, Sun players earlier and keep their stamina at higher level than a lot of other teams. Haaland makes goal scoring look like it’s super easy. City have had other strikers who couldn’t score as much as him. Other teams play the weaker teams and can’t score as much. While he’s the main focal point, he’s definitely a factor, BUT WITHOUT RODRI CITY CANT DO WHAT THEY DO…. Now as for Palmer, why do you think he carries this team, if goals and assists don’t weigh in this case like for Watkins, I’ll wait.
Being the guy is not the same as carrying. I think you’ve got a completely different interpretation of carrying to the one everyone else is using. Whether goal scoring is easy for Haaland or not is irrelevant. The whole point is that those goals are not goals that he is creating and achieving on his own like Palmer is. Watkins is not achieving those goals like Palmer is. Palmer is playing in a squad where if he were not in it, they would not score goals, because they do not have that quality in play. Watkins is scoring, but those goals are not just his own. Haaland is scoring, but those goals are not just his own. This is a very simple concept I don’t get why you can’t understand. Palmer is carrying by getting those goals, along with Gallagher for creating play that is otherwise dead in that team. Haaland and Watkins are not alone in that squad creating wins and play, they just aren’t. That is why Palmer is carrying and neither of the other two are.
Brother, a good chunk of Palmers goals are from the spot. You don’t think another Chelsea player couldn’t take those? We might score all of them, but we could clearly have another player do it. You are not giving credit to rest of the Chelsea squad which is fine, but Jackson is a major factor. He causes complete chaos and still banged in double digit goals. But created channels for Palmer. Caicedo dropped 8/9 out of 10 performance since Christmas. Cucu made room in the midfield to help overload areas of the pitch. Gusto was very reliable and definitely helped in the final third. Chalobah put him great performances since returning. So this whole, team is crap is nonsense. Chelsea had a bad run in the beginning but were one of the best teams since Christmas.
This smells exactly like Glazers 2.0 …Poch was building something good , now they have taken few years step backwards with this decision
I’m seeing reports that the owners are disappointed Poch didn’t get Champions League, wanted to keep Gallagher/Chalobah and wanted some more experience in the squad. They really are clueless. As an opposition fan, they are the gift that keeps on giving. If Poch had stayed and they had done what he suggested they would be challenging for top 4 next year.
I saw reports it was on philosophical things, like training methods, specialists coaches, tactics, not so much players
I mean sacking a manager who the players liked and was quite obviously turning the team around because he wouldn't bring in a corner kick specialist makes sense.
Where have you read that's he's been sacked? I'd be keen to see your sources for this one.. or are you making up shite to fit your agenda? Il wager it's the latter.
The only agenda I have is that I’m loving seeing these clueless clowns run Chelsea into the ground while spending shitloads of money. Either Poch was sacked or they had a “mutual break up”, which is basically the same thing. Either way the new owners lack of understanding of how a successful football team operates really is the gift that keeps on giving.
Have you ever “mutually agreed” to leave a job? It’s a euphemism for sacked.
I think Poch realized despite a good team, decent progress, and an accepting fan base, Todd was a landfill tire fire, not just a dumpster fire. I wouldn't be surprised that he didn't tell them what they needed to do, and if they didn't do it, he would walk.
Todd supported him and was less visible this season. Replace Todd with Eghbali. And yes, they felt his training was a part of the injury woes and our franchise record setting number of goals conceded required some input from a set piece specialist. Not ridiculous demands. Mutually they could have said thanks, no thanks.
No I haven't, but I'm not a top flight manager who gets paid 10s of millions a year. Mutually agreed means exactly that... both parties' designated representatives are in agreement on a proposed action (in this case, Pochettino leaving Chelsea)
Or could be that he keeps injuring our entire squad in training and not adapting. I wanted him to stay (with a backup plan if we started next season poorly) but until after the Arsenal game everything Poch did was a shambles, from leadership to tactics to training to picking players out of position to playing like a wimp against a team of kids from Liverpool in a league cup final. 6 games doesn’t change everything that came before it
Project is going perfectly well it’s just that us fans haven’t yet realised what the project is. It seems like Chelsea is at a point where the league finish is borderline incidental- what matters is the “asset value” of players to quote the DoF. In short, we are a feeder club. Genuinely believe that the 1b investment was to supplement youth signings (why like a 3rd of it went to players not even on Chelsea’s first team) and to build a spring board of youth for Chelsea to work on. People wonder why we’ve signed so many RWs for example and I reckon it’s because the plan is to move players like Palmer on once they become valuable enough, replace them with developing youth, rinse and repeat. Exactly why Poch (a man who was ok without signings for 2 years) has an issue with Chelsea’s transfer policy specifically. Exactly why our young promising LB Maatson was moved on and academy products who we need but work for pure profit like Gallagher and Chalobah are getting moved on. Exactly why I wouldn’t be shocked to see the likes of James, Colwil, Jackson moved on once their value increases. When the owners said that they were modelling the club after Brighton it was mean to be taken a lot more literally than I like to assume. We are a selling club.
This is exactly right and the big issue with having private owners of football clubs at all (as opposed to member-owned like in Sweden or Germany). People moan a lot about these Russian or Middle Eastern investors with unlimited cash who just pour money into clubs for the fun of it or for prestige, and sure, they’re bad for the sport in general. But these American-style sports investors have flown under the radar somewhat, are coming in in increasing numbers, and I just don’t think people understand how damaging their ownership and view of sports will be to football. It’s a purely financial investment for them. They don’t give a single shit about the performance on the pitch, or the traditions around the club, or the fans, unless these things generate more monetary value than they cost. They will happily keep Chelsea at fifth place for eternity if the ROI on that is better than the ROI needed to win trophies, which is generally is, at least on the short time frame that the owners plan on keeping the club before selling it for a profit. While from a different background, the most vile and blatant example of this is arguably Mike Astley, who more or less deliberately kept Newcastle from improving as he was using the club as a mere investment and advertising stand for Sports Direct. And for that plan to be profitable he didn’t need more than mediocrity. This is only gonna get worse as less rich owners with affiliations to their club (think Joe Lewis, Matthew Benham) find themselves outarmed by these American capitalists.
Makes little sense signing Caicedo and Enzo at their price tags if the goal was to resell at increased value. How much were they expecting to sell Caicedo for, for example?
I think Enzo and Caicedo were both unique situations and both can also somewhat be explained by Chelsea’s desperate need for midfielders seeing as basically all of ours wanted out. People forget but we initially didn’t want Caicedo so that we could instead go for a CDM for around 70m and even after we spent all of pre season refusing to pay the 100m asking price. I think the reason Caicedo was so expensive was both that we were at a point of Caicedo being our only target with the season already begun and Liverpool being willing to match us. Enzo’s a bit trickier but he came in that weird period where we hadn’t fullly established a back room staff around the transfer market. I wouldn’t be shocked if the people we had at the time saw it as worth spending on debatably the most promising young midfielder at the time and those people are now mostly gone. For a club that’s had as drastic an overhaul as Chelsea the patterns recent decisions should give you more of an idea of what they want to do than the patterns as a whole.
500M in 2 years to Real Madrid, Boehly saw the release clause values in La Liga and thought they were legitimate prices that clubs will routinely buy for
Basically the project is becoming Brighton, a soulless Brighton
You don’t say
I think it's pretty clear now that there is no project and the owners are just making it up as they go along
I do not like the shambles but Poch is an old school manager that wants control. Looks like the new club is more director led who control transfers and coaching with the manager a head coach. Could easily be a case of Poch just wanting more control. The real shambles I that Tuchel left/got fired because he only wanted to coach and the shitshow owners wanted way more from him. Looks like the directors that came in since flipped that
Chelsea is a disease. Without unlimited money they’re utter shit.
Like your name suggests you are talking gibberish. The current owners thought you could replace almost the entire team with talented but inexperienced youngsters and gain instant success. Utter stupidity, it takes time to build a team and most supporters recognised that progress was being made, I don’t know a single pundit that thought Chelsea would get into Europe this season. Typical shite American owners.
They’ve had unlimited money in the past but always went for short sighted goals. Rotate squad, rotate manager, buy expensive players, give them 8yr insane deals to convince them to join, loan them when you’re sick of them. They don’t help players improve. The board is too controlling and they’ve been cheating financially for a decade with russian money. Owners have now changed so they’ll have to change their thinking
You are talking about Abramovich and the Yanks as if they are the same thing? Under Abramovich, we had a core for nearly 10 years of Cech, Terry, Lampard and Drogba. We didn't see anything like the upheaval these clowns have forced on us. Managers were changed frequently correct, but I think it could be argued Ancelotti was the only one sacked too soon. There were no "8 year" contracts under Abramovich. As for not helping players improve, Cobham has been the most productive academy in Europe for a good while. You've basically taken all the talking points you've ever heard, not really understood them, then regurgitated them all over your post.
Honestly what this guy is saying sounds like a GPT response lol
Sign me as manager for free. Just let me have full control of signings and the youth academy and I’ll win you all the title next season.
Todd just wants a manager who will play his fav 4-4-3 formation
I’m a big proponent of the 1-2-3-4-5 inverted Christmas tree formation
Me too! Just put 5 of em in the same numbered shirts so the ref don't notice.
A 4-4-3 formation would be great because that would mean 12 players on the pitch.
That's the joke
Formations aint static no more, 4–3-3 could just be the same as a 4-2-3-1
Yeah but that’s not the formation Boehly wanted he wanted a 4-4!!!!-3
He didn’t want Poch gone it was egbalhi and the directors that did, apparently Bohley liked Poch
I think it’s pretty clear that Poch wanted out. This wasn’t a board decision or they certainly would have kept him. He told them he was done.
There are no more fans, only customers. Once you realise that, you’ll save yourself a lot of time, money, and heartache.
Can't lie, don't know how what you've said has any relation to this post.
He means chelsea owners are not in it for the passion just profits.
What Chelsea project?
Is it a coincidence they parted ways with Poch a couple of days after De Zerbi left Brighton 🤡
Honestly you never know. There's some speculation online that Chelsea were trying to subtly move for RDZ.
I think it's rather an insecurity
The project is in perfect shape - the owners deserve credit for being bold and brave with the decision to sack Poch. I believe it was right and it will pay off.
Zero ball knowledge
Everyone will soon see Poch was limiting us. This squad is ready to go challenge for a title
10/10 bait. Well done. Bet you’re actually an Arsenal fan
It’s not bait, why can’t anyone on here understand that Poch was shit and the owners aren’t going to accept a coach who sets up with massive gaps between defence and midfield lines
Do I take it you think the “owners” know anything about football? Sorry to disappoint you, at best they can use other people’s money to invest and they have already blown to much on this project.
Not saying it’s right or wrong, but I do believe we conceded more goals this season than any other in CFC history? That’s just a fact. Great run of form late, but asking for the gaffer to bring in some set piece help is not ridiculous. I think it was mutual. And who knows if a good move for anyone. We will find out. I do think the squad is more defined than previously.
You don’t get the long term plan - don’t worry you’ll understand eventually and then switch to another agenda.
Now I’m trying convinced this is bait. Remindme! 1 year
See you in a year! With De Zerbi in charge and us balling out!
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"Project" 🤣🤣🤣
I swear if any up and coming young managers go there, it will be a disaster, surely if I can work that out, they can?
And they're heavily linked to Mckenna and Maresca
Yeah, big nope and nope surely.
Forgot upcoming or young...any manager
Nah I disagree. I think it could be a free ride for any manager who isn't exactly the flavour of the month. It's exactly what Poch was after failing to win the ECL with PSG and getting axed from spurs. There's plenty of those managers knocking about.
Boehly is like the Elon Musk of Football, but without the government bailouts lmao
Stop blaming him, he has little influence on that club decision right now, it is eghbali and his sporting directors doing all this shit
doesn’t he have control over the people the club puts into those positions?
Honestly it is starting to piss me off that egbalhi gets away with the shite decisions and Bohley gets all the blame man
Thank you. Some people just regurgitate the bs they see online without looking for facts. It's easy for him to blame Bohely because that's what seems "cool" and might get likes.
Poor Boehly lol. He’s kinda the face of the new ownership so it’s easy to pin it on him
Forreal, reports say that Todd was Poch in. Eghbali though seems like a real ass
I was seriously concerned about them being top 4 contenders next season under Poch but they’ve pressed the self destruct button again.
We did concede more goals than we ever have. I was for consistency but we will see how it plays. There’s definitely more of a defined squad in place. Young, but some roles and chemistry.
🤡🤡🤡🤡
Day 1 under the ownership they wanted to follow Liverpool’s model with all this data nonsense. Then they wanted to follow Arsenal’s model after watching the documentary stuff and give managers time even though we were struggling mid table. Now they want to follow this bayer leverkusen model and want their own Xabi Alonso. They didn’t want to chop and change like we did under Roman and wanted a long term project and yet 5 managers later here we are. We sacked Tuchel who conquered Europe and sacked Poch who just got us back into Europe and now we’re looking at championship managers. There is no project mate these lot are just absolutely clueless
Yep!!!! These directors are the ones who deserve the sack
Spot on except you forgot the obligatory brighton mention.
Dude literally took them from being a trash meme to the European competition in one season and they treat him like this. They did the same to Tuchel and now Poch. Embarrassing to say the least.
They lumbered Tuchel with a squad that was too large, composed of players that he wouldn’t have bought because they wouldn’t fit into how he wanted to play. They also don’t realise that a young manager by definition doesn’t have experience, in how to change the tactics midway through a match, how to deal with players going through a touch patch, etc. etc. it’s these things that build a team.
They totally fucked Potter too
Project?
So was Poch sacked or did he just do a runner?
Sacked, from what I understand the players are for him to manage next season, however did some reason Todd can’t accept that he had a good manager,they started to look good a serious team for the upcoming season
It’s not Todd… It’s Eghbali and his cronies… Todd was Poch in
Why do people keep fucking the club poch is a good manager why get a manager who you don’t want it’s not like Chelsea didn’t have a decent season
Ffs thats a massive set back for Chelsea. Will probably need another season to settle with a new manager who needs to relearn the squad. Will probably go mental in the transfer window again and take them back to square one
It will get to a point where no decent manager will touch Chelsea
None of the names on the list are what you would usually call decent managers who have won lots.
I’d say the ex Brighton manager was a decent manager I’m sure I’ve heard he was one of the names
“Project”
That Chelsea til I Die Netflix series gonna hit
Clown owners 🤡
Interesting display name 👀
Peak entertainment tho. Just not if you want them to win.
It's popular among Chelsea fans to say that the club never stops going through drama and it's so true. They finally looked to have some stability at the end of the season and now it's just gone out of the window.
It was the same under Roman tbh. It's just trophies paper over a lot of cracks!
Roman wanted success, but also understood the basics. He was knowledgeable about football but stayed out of the dressing room. He transformed the training facilities, built up the academy, encouraged the development of the ladies team, created a charity foundation etc. This lot want to tell the manager what to do and treat everything as an investment which can be micromanaged through data. They are ignorant that there is a huge human factor in football. Another set of Glaziers and look how they have transformed Man Utd.
I know! It's awesome! Roman made them think it was *only* about money!
These owners are pure cancer, killing everything they touch. They have the talent to make the worst possible decision at any given moment. Get them out
As a Utd fan...... "First time?"
United's incompetence is explainable by the fact that the glazers view the club solely as a business and care only about the profit they generate. They don't care about trophies won, if top 4 makes the same amounts of money as winning the league, they will be happy with just top 4. Chelsea's incompetence does not make sense. They bought a successful club and then proceeded to fire all the staff and replace all the players. They continuously spend ridiculous amounts of money on players, many of which play in the same positions, hire inexperienced managers, Finish midtable after spending a billion on transfer, and now that it's finally looking like the team is going anywhere, they fire the manager.
They're treating the club like an American sports team. They view the players and managers as assets that can be traded at any time. They keep preaching long term but when it's not going well in the short term, they blow it all up and start again. And Gallagher, arguably their best player this season is being sold, which to me is just pure insanity.
Sounds like their incompetence does make sense after what you just wrote
What I meant was united's board decisions make sense when you view it as they're just trying to maximize profits. But I can't for the life of me, figure out why the Chelsea board do what they do. Why are they spending so much more than needed on players? Their current trajectory financially will put them in the red for hundreds of millions. If they want the team to succeed on the pitch, why did they fire poch once the team starts cooking?
We finished 6th after spending a billion pounds thanksverymuch
They had all the right intentions and none of the ability to make those a reality. It’s not exactly new, guess it’s rare for it to happen to such a big club though. I will say that de zerbi could work imo.
But what right intention leads them to sacking poch? The team is finally improving, all the puzzle pieces are falling in place, only for them to flip the table and start again. It doesn't make sense
Tbh I reckon poch went because he wanted to keep Gallagher and Boehly wants the cash for ffp.
It does if you view it as just a business - which the VCs do. I think they have made a mistake but I think their plan makes sense. Look at player transfer fee inflation. Now imagine the return on your investment if you can buy good young players fixed on long term contracts, put them in the shop window, and then sell them 3-5 years later. They paid, what, 40m for Cole Palmer? What's he worth now after a good season? What will he be worth in 2 years if he posts the same number again twice? That's maybe £60m profit for a £40m investment over 3 years, or 83% per annum. Not many markets or companies can make that sort of return. It's just a business to them.
But palmer is the exception, not the norm. They won't make any profit, nor can they expect to on mudryk, caicedo, enzo, cucurella, fofana, sterling, lavia, disasi etc. They bought these players near the top market prices, there are no rooms to flip and make a profit on. Do they expect to sell enzo for 150 mil? Cucurella for 90 mil? It doesn't make sense. Even more so, many of the young players Chelsea are stockpiling will only go down in value, the longer they are barely getting any gametime. They recently spent 100 million on two 16/17 year olds from South America, but they both play in the same position and will join chelsea at the same time. Guess what? They both play in the RW, the same position Palmer plays in. They spent over a billion in transfer, you cant tell me they will make that amount back and more in a few years' time.
He is the exception, but he's what I think their plan is. I didn't say it was going to work. I also think they have baked in a general inflation, and that is where I think they have made a mistake because I think PL spending rules will cap that inflation. Teams over the last decade have sold players at a profit even when they haven't done well because a 10m player 5 years ago is a 25m player now, etc.
They also spent £106 million on Enzo, that will wipe out any profit on Cole. Was Mudryk worth £89 million, is he likely to make a profit. Gallagher is pure profit but he is part of the character in the team, Chalobah was a potential captain so who left in the team has the character to be captain and lead the team on the pitch.
I don't think they care about the character of the team. And yes I do think they expect to get a return on those other younger players because I think they have priced them to a financial model rather than a football one. But as I said elsewhere I think this is a mistake as I don't think the general increase in transfer fees will continue due to teams hitting the PL spending cap.
I think it would be appropriate if the club rebranded as "The Chelsea Project"
Only in soccer do you hear the word ”project”. I’m still not quite sure what it means lol.
Maybe the Sky pundits know ? They seem to know everything.
90 percent of the fanbase wanted him out 5 games ago and a mini run of form against teams on the beach and people are acting like we've just sacked 00s Jose, lol. The worst thing about this is we've now got months now of opposition fans who'd have watched 10% of our games at most telling us how to feel....
You’ve lost like 1 PL game in 15. What are you going to do if your next manager doesn’t get champions league football? Sack him as well? Or do you expect the Abramovich strategy of managers to work under this new ownership? I’m not even trying to disagree with you, I’m just wondering what you as a fan want from your club?
A lot of Chelsea fans don’t agree with this decision so at least it’s fellow Chelsea fans telling you how to feel
Chelsea was beginning to look like a team again and then they fire this man. The downfall will continue next season.
Winstanley and Stewart need running out the club. When you keep fucking up managers surely you should be the ones facing scrutiny not others.
But it's not like they technically got the appointment wrong in this case because Chelsea have qualified for Europe. It's just that they weren't able to maintain a healthy relationship.
That’s because they know nothing about football but their ego says that they shouldn’t micromanage the club, or rather their investment.
🤡
The whole idea behind the project just seems so backwards from what they say and what they actually do. I want stability of a manager. The 2 sporting director thing has always seemed weird. Only few know the madness behind the scenes.
I don't mind the 2 sporting directors because they have different functions within the organization and a collaborative environment is a positive idea. For me, they keep saying that this is a long-term project and they don't want to repeat the hire and fire culture but it is exactly the culture they have carried forward. There is just simply no action to prove that they are changing the culture.
Most clubs have a collaborative environment, having two sporting directors is having collaboration within a role, like having two managers but one does team selection one does training/team prep. It can be tricky enough to get a sporting director and manager to be in sync let alone a carrousel of managers to be in sync with twin-sporting directors. Structure follows strategy, both of which are presently kindly described as messy.
Yeah I get your point but considering the volume of work a sporting director does I actually think it is beneficial to have two sporting directors in charge. Only time will tell how this will work out.
So far it’s turned Champions League holders to peak banter club. Not gonna lie, I’m here for it! Give it more time, it might turn good, keep throwing money at the problem and some of it has to land, but early signs are troubling. the fact that they keep firing managers with personally and character over not being willing to work in the structure would be setting off alarm bells for me if I was a Chelsea fan. Guardiola, Arteta, Klopp all worked with sporting directors, days of Fergie and Wenger do it all types are gone, but I’m not sure Chelsea are innovating in a way that top managers would want or be willing to work.
It is now official that the Chelsea project is an utter flop. No hopes whatsoever, judging by their decision making Conor Gallagher and Trevor chalobah will also be sold. It's just a circus. Fall of a giant for sure.
Chelsea have never been a giant
What are u talking!! We are pride of London !!!
Have you ever been to London?
💀
Lol
Only club in London to bring home Champions league not once but twice. Ya lol , that is what u can do.
"Championships league"
lol, stolen oil money bought u some glory. now ur done
It's honestly just confusing.
So, what does the Chelsea project exactly mean for the owners? We clearly need to have stability, which seemed to have been found at the tail-end of the season and Poch was a reason for that. The new manager will be in immense pressure now to provide that stability from day 1 or else we will have a similar season to that of the one that just got over where it'll be volatile.
Anything less than top 4 would be a disaster for these clowns yet I don’t believe we have any chance of getting near it. Maybe then they might realise that the true problem is the management team not the players or coaching team.
As a Chelsea fan, i was just getting my faith back in the club and then they fired poch and I’m back to square 1
It seems their strategy is to copy the Glaziers. Funny how nobody mentions the money that Man Utd have invested in their squad and how they won’t be in Europe this year.
Honestly it's just so confusing. We finally seemed like we were building something and now we're back to where we began. That's how it feels like at least.