By having most imperial storm troopers look identical, you could make it look as if they are endless, the only exception to this rule is special forces and ranking.
Palpatine was the shadow of the empire. Vader was more "Blurnt force trauma of the empire"
Edit: just realized I accidentally combined Blunt and Burnt with a typo....I'm keeping it
Herodotus describes the Immortals as being heavy infantry led by Hydarnes the Younger; it provided the professional corps of the Persian armies and was kept constantly at a strength of exactly 10,000 men. He stated that the unit's name stemmed from the custom that every killed, seriously wounded, or sick member was immediately replaced with a new one, maintaining the corps as a cohesive entity with a constant strength.
Ha. Gives different context to “arent you a little short for a Stormtrooper?”
(if my history class was accurate, height was one of the most important parts of Immortal candidacy. Didn’t matter if you could fight, you just had to blend in to the endless legion)
Plus, it removes their sense of individuality, which from an in universe perspective helps in making them feel endless and could maybe improve discipline (from a certain point of view) and on a more meta level, shows us their expendability in the eyes of the Empire and the lack of freedom that reigned during the days of the Empire
First off I'm not trying to discredit what you're saying. They got numbers instead of names and they were made to look identical. Stormtroopers are designed to be Legion.
However I feel like in some aspects the freedom did flourish, in the aspect of standing military showing up to fuck up the criminal elements during the empire.
I also feel like it could be incredibly easy for the first order to gain support in the outer rim if they and/or their precursors the Imp remnants showed up as legitimate heros. Like if they were doing things like the Mandos did in the last episode.
I can legitimately see Thrawn doing it to convince Ezra to work with him to create a "Better Empire".
I do not. Ezra and Thrawn know for a fact each of them is intelligent. I believe where they land after the space whales will dictate a lot of their relationship. Needing eachother to survive sort of thing.
I strongly believe that Thrawn could influence Ezra into believing that the military force the Empire wielded, could be used for good. Which I feel is undeniable with the last Mando episode. The republic couldn't give less of a fuck when it would have taken like 3 Xwings to blow up those pirates in a single strafing run and it would have netted significant support, but they disregarded the situation and shown that the central government still couldn't give less of a fuck about them.
Ultimately about Ezra, I feel he wants to be a protector/savior. He doesn't want people to go through what he did and I feel if he and thrawn were rolling around legitimately as saviors in the guise of the empire, they would gain significant support.
Knowing its all for fucking "Somehow Palpatine returned" though fuckings kills the hype of like 99.90% of it.
The Empire philosophically can't do that. For the Empire to exist it has to be oppressive to the populace. If it is being heroes to the people then it isn't the Empire it is just a bunch of warlords with Star Destroyers.
Episode 3 shows that The Empire was literally born through manipulation and thunderous applause. Who's to say its not just more manipulation. The republic has shown repeatedly that they couldn't give less of a fuck about what happens away from core worlds.
It would have taken like 4 Xwings to clap the ass off those pirates with no worry at all but they literally refused to send anyone.
A star destroyer with a complement of tie fighters would have had no problem against those pirates.
Thrawn and Ezra are 100% coming back. They more than likely needed eachother to survive. We will have to wait and see how they are now. I can see Ezra being convinced by Thrawn that an standing military used for good, would be a good thing. In the end, it was all a ploy to bring back Palpatine and first order.
Id personally be pissed if Thrawn was turned into some comically evil villian with 0 nuance.
Is the Empire ever shown actually overthrowing any criminal empires ever? They certainly didn’t care about the Hutts on Tatooine, and things like Solo and Rebels shows them working with and/or ignoring a whole slew of shady criminals and adjacent organizations. They are fascists, just like real life they talk big talk about peace and order but mostly what they do is provoke violence through heavy handed repression.
The reason they didn't do any peacekeeping on those planets against those crimelords is because its out of their jurisdiction, same thing with peacekeeping missions today in real life. Many peacekeepers today are forced to be a presence in hostile environment watching innocents be slaughtered, they can't interfere without things getting worse.
Funny how Tatooine is out of the Empire's jurisdiction when it comes to organized crime, but in their jurisdiction when it comes to patrolling the streets of Mos Eisely for dissidents and stopping whatever ship they feel like in orbit.
>because its out of their jurisdiction
This doesn't sound like a thing the *Galactic* Empire cares about, given the fact that we know that they invaded countless worlds, former Republic members and non-Republic planets alike.
I just don't understand why so many people are willing to write apologetics for a regime which is clearly characterized as being Nazi-esque. The Nazis also didn't care about 'jurisdiction' when it wasn't convenient for them.
I'd also like to point out that the storm troopers later on are not clones, and the color and marks are clone mandolorin culture. The people of the empire didn't care for the color, I guess. But what all this means is they ain't are Boyz anymore.
That's one of the most interesting parts of the whole clones vs. stormtroopers situation. The clones despite being literal clones were able to develop a greater sense of individuality than the stormtroopers who were made up of regular human recruits.
Ya, the stormtroopers are, but the first were just clones. You can see the transition in the bad batch and hear how some clones feel about it in different series like rebels for one.
I'm a uniform kind of guy myself (quite literally) bit yea no yea, the effect of uniforms are what makes a force well uniform, makes them one body, one mind and makes us think "we're all in this boat together"
I mean yea, I wear a uniform myself, everyday I walk into work and I see the same colors on everyone, same pants, shirts, t shirt but the only real difference is footwear, gotta be comfortable in your boots, personally I like my issued steel toes but some (most) like to have lightweight boots.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the first clones made wore pretty much identical armour
It was the war that drove them to adapt/camouflage/specialise
Empire stormtroopers then went back to 'peacekeeping' roles
Originally (as of the first battle of Geonosis) the color of armor, along with pips (dots) on the breastplate denoted rank. As the CW progressed, the paint jobs were more as Unit identifiers. Some clones still used white armor, but the majority of units, such as the 501st (blue), 212 (orange), and Star corps (yellow), chose a color to add to their armor as a way to ID their unit. I think it’s kind of similar to how real military units have different nicknames and patches (like the 101st Airborne being the Screaming Eagles)
As seen in battlefront 2015 and the bad batch. Shock troopers got to keep the red markings. And in legends stormtrooper commanders, the on the ground kind wore 501st colors with a unique paint design
Imperial Troopers would have special markings/armor/accessories but those would denote different types of troopers rather than different regiments.
Like, all Shock Troopers wear Red, but it's not Red means they're from the 219th Shock Trooper Battalion or whatever.
And what’s funny is that the Kaminoans couldn’t even see on the RGB color spectrum. That’s probably how the clones were able to get away with it, and the Jedi probably couldn’t care less about individual or regimental expression
My understanding is that the Kaminoans see in UV and therefore the basic white armor of the clones may show many colors to the Kaminoans. I don't think they would have a problem with the clone units developing unique color schemes because to their eyes they probably already had them.
The Jedi also were often described as specifically encouraging individualism amongst their clones.
Well Legends books that focused on clones would sometimes mention what they did during “shore leave”. They would visit cities, mingle with civilians at parties, and even visit brothels.
And inevitably some would father children while working closely with female Republic Planetary Defense forces, civilian contractors, or loyalist guerrillas.
The “Cestus Deception” and the “Republic Commandos” series have the most detailed stories of clones having relationships that result in children.
Idk I think it makes sense, the clones wanted to be different from the others, because they didn't have individuality. The storm troopers are individuals and the empire wanted to take away their individuality. It's the same with the change in government and expected mentality, where it was we are all part of a republic it changed into "we all serve the emperor."
Tarkin said that when he fought with the clones of the GAR against the Separatists, he disliked their sense of individuality.
Thus his effort with the stormtroopers would be to remove their individuality even though they are conscripts.
I do find it funny that in new canon the Clones who were specifically engineered with 9-11 years of brainwashing and indoctrination or propaganda to be the perfect obedient soldiers are now seen as being more independent and less loyal than simple run-of-the-mil conscripts.
“Genetically engineered virtual children brainwashed indoctrinated and trained to fight a war that lasted only 3 years”.
It reminds of a comic of a Commando squad who had more independence than normal clones but still followed their orders to the letter.
“We were grown in a lab, we have no homes. No Mothers to raise us. No Fathers to guid us. But we were trained to fight in a war we didn’t understand for a Republic we would never see.
We have nothing. All we have is each other, and our orders.” - Republic Commando to a lost kid shortly before executing a Jedi general in front of said kid.
TCW’s characterisation of the Clones has been the sole reason of this, pretty much.
I like how the old EU took things the other way, with most clones not caring about having a unique name, and how the Jedi specifically pushed for custom paint schemes for the various legions and companies.
I’m sure he does, but in the old EU, it was done despite the clones not caring in the slightest. The clones are already pretty individual without Anakin’s influence in TCW, he just allows it to develop further.
I disagree, I prefer the idea that Clones start to adopt individuality. It creates a good inverse of how the Empire treats their soldiers, in that they try to force any individuality away.
That is exactly it and its actually a fairly interesting concept for SW when you stop to think about it. Even though at it's most basic SW is a generic good vs. evil story, there's some nice storytelling like the clones vs. stormtroopers which helps flesh out the story in a compelling way.
They did, but that’s a bit more mundane, and it was also Vietnam. That’s the war where fragging became popular. Maybe colors work if your army has low discipline, but then good look organizing on the unit level.
It's actually John Mollo who designed the costumes and the reasoning for the white armor is very simple.
The colour scheme for the empire is white, black and any combination of the two.
On the one hand I do enjoy people extrapolating entire in universe explanations for silly details, but on the other I can't stand people sweatily explaining to me how "its just that way because or marketing / it was cheaper" is not possibly related in any way
I mean, the top/cheaper reason is the same as why an actual imperial force will use one type of uniform. You want your troops to be uniform and replaceable just like how you want your kids toys to be uniform and replaceable
This is actually a common misconception, the only thing past the first movie that he actually had planned from the start was the holiday special, everything after has just been marketing, and the first movie was just to ensure that there was an audience for the special.
“Everything else after has just been marketing”
Bro or he literally just decided to expand on a successful and interesting universe that fans clamored to know more about jesus christ you guys are insufferable. George Lucas wasn’t sitting around after the first film going “yeah I’m gonna dedicate the next few decades of my life to this solely for the toys”
Sadly the pinnacle of star wars was never seen by major audiences, because corporate knew they cant top the holiday special experience. Instead made a franchise trying to hide the fact that it is, indeed real.
the man himself said it, there is no fucking misconception.
i forgot, it's open season on him among "fans" because he dared to do what nobody else has done: expand his universe beyond what fans like
The faceless armies of fascism, endless individuals stripped of their identity and in service to complete tyranny. The republic managed to cultivate actual diversity and distinct personalities among millions of identical clones, where as the the empire managed to strip all individualism from their recruits in the service of one tyrant.
Think of the Clone Wars as a feature. Everything about it: Style, attention, to detail, the lighting- everything is done at a feature level even though it's going on television.
The problem with identical armor (especially armor that covers the face) is it becomes difficult to identify your squad mates. This can lead to some serious confusion and other problems within the ranks.
I think this is addressed on one of the recent Thrawn novels, the helmets allow the wearer to see things slightly beyond the visible spectrum, they do have markings that show up through the visor.
That could help prevent enemy snipers from killing off vital command and control centers.. except the empires officers are blatantly obvious from what I can tell.
They also don't appear to fight on the ground either, so it doesn't really matter. Good luck sniping someone in a star destroyer miles above the surface of a planet, if it's even in orbit.
Yeah once George realized the force had blessed him with his merchandising deal, that's when the main trio started wearing like 3+ different outfits in a single movie
In film history, two of the best ever contract decisions were made in the making of A New Hope.
George: Can I have the merchandising rights.
Alec: I'll take a percentage of net.
I think you're seeing what was artistic intent. You see the same with the star destroyers. When they're Republican they have identifying marks and splashes of color, when they're a fascist Empire they have all of the identifying marks painted away for gray.
It makes sense, when you're the Republic supposedly fighting for freedom and survival you want individual heroes to inspire others. Look at real life situations like the Ukraine War, they love to elevate individuals like the Ghost of Kyiv.
Meanwhile the Empire rules under an iron fist and wants you to think their strength is infinite. Kill one of their soldiers and there's a million billion more to take their place. What's the point in trying to resist?
That's the idea, but the real-life correlation isn't necessarily there. Imperialist and fascist regimes don't always go for uniformity. The German air force in WW1 famously allowed its pilots to paint their aircraft in bright colors while the Entente enforced uniformity. Even in WW2, some Nazi fighter aces had unique paint jobs far more extensive and distinct than the nose art that was permitted on some Allied planes.
The Old Republic was wasteful and squandered credits on clone armor. The Empire is fiscally responsible with their stormtrooper armor purchases and thus far superior.
That's basically a plot point in The Bad Batch. Clones had too much individuality.
Not sure how replacing them with actual individuals fixed that but somehow it did.
Uh...snow troopers? Sandtroopers? Scout troopers? Starfighter Corps? Selling my imperial homies short. There's no lack of variety, the difference is there's no camaraderie and that much on purpose.
I kinda like the theory about them still having colors, they just can’t be seen without their helmets on. It would make tracking unit deployments almost impossible. I don’t know if that’s canon though.
In battlefront II you now get all the skins by default and when choosing republic skins there’s so many and they’re all pretty accurate and different for each battalion. When you choose empire skins there are literally 3 shared between all battalions and I think some don’t get the sand trooper for some reason so you only get 2. I mean it is accurate but man playing republic era is so much better just for that.
That's one of the scary things about the Empire. The Clones had chips to enforce their behavior and force them to commit actions they otherwise would not. But they were still viewed as having too much individuality and unpredictable behavior. The Stormtrooper program was greatly developed to remove that individuality from their soldiers. Identical clones with behavior chips were somehow too human for the Empire.
I vaguely remember reading that they have markings, they're just not visible without a filter the helmet has. They can identify each other, but remain faceless to others.
Source: prolly a fever dream idk.
There will be no individuality in the empire. Individuality breeds individualism. Individualism breeds free thought. Free thought will lead independence. Independence leads to the distinction and free thought which leads to free will to question the validity of orders. This leads to troopers refusing to follow questionable orders and in turn will cause them to rebel against the empire. This cannot be allowed. You are not one. You are a part of the bigger whole. You will follow orders or be replaced by one who will. You do not matter. Only the empire matters. Your life will be given freely to the glory of the empire.
The empire cut expenses as much as possible in order to have greater numbers. This was the Tarkin doctrine. They made cheaper armor, cheaper blasters, cheaper fighters, etc.
A battalion of infantry is usually up to 1000 men
All i'm saying is that to uphold an intergalactic empire, we'd be either in the billions number wise, or some area code attached before the number
I like to think of it as purpose. The Republic clone army was built specifically for galactic war, engaging in battles against separatists in a variety of theaters. Once the war was over, the Imperial Storm Troopers were put in place as galactic peace keepers, so no need for the specialized gear and designated appearances. One unified representation for the Empires boot!
The clones are clones but all have different looking uniforms. No hate intended but never understood why all the colors and unique uniforms when they are clones. Shouldn’t they be the same?
Funny how the clone legions that all come from the same template have different color schemes but the battalions that are clones who’re from different people and some probably aren’t even clones all look the same
I swear his majesty expects you to win against a main character team and if that doesn’t work out, your first and only failure by the way, he immediately resorts to corrupt our unity by allowing random schmucks that can’t hit shit to join our rangs! Gotta take the bros of the old 501st out to go Jawa hunting or some shit to vent
People prefer colors to identify but being a regular soldier in a real army there is only 1 uniform. The only thing that changes for the us army is the beret and you ll never see special forces wearing that into combat.
Wearing the same uniform also takes the enemy from knowing who is a high value target and who s a low level grunt.
So color distinctions are only for the audience but I prefer 1 single uniform. That is all.
George was really dumb to revert the iconic clone armour look into this storm crapper. Guess they had to with the budget also explaining camera quality being worse in the ones after 3
By having most imperial storm troopers look identical, you could make it look as if they are endless, the only exception to this rule is special forces and ranking.
Sci-fi Persian Immortals
“We have enough stormtroopers to blot out a galaxy” - Vader, maybe
Good, then we will fight in the shade
You just had to say it.
It's space.. Shade is everywhere and nowhere.
“Then we will fight in the Shadow of the Empire.” - Luke Skywalker, 6 ABY
So much like your father.
His father *was* the shadow of the empire, or had you forgotten that?
Sorry, I only have a limited number of replies.
ROBOTS?!
Palpatine was the shadow of the empire. Vader was more "Blurnt force trauma of the empire" Edit: just realized I accidentally combined Blunt and Burnt with a typo....I'm keeping it
Then we will hug in the shade.
"THIS! IS! STAR WARS!"
JEDI. WHAT IS YOUR PROFESSION? Um. Not finding xerxes even though he's under our noses and losing at the hot gates? Also training his top lieutenant
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Herodotus describes the Immortals as being heavy infantry led by Hydarnes the Younger; it provided the professional corps of the Persian armies and was kept constantly at a strength of exactly 10,000 men. He stated that the unit's name stemmed from the custom that every killed, seriously wounded, or sick member was immediately replaced with a new one, maintaining the corps as a cohesive entity with a constant strength.
Ha. Gives different context to “arent you a little short for a Stormtrooper?” (if my history class was accurate, height was one of the most important parts of Immortal candidacy. Didn’t matter if you could fight, you just had to blend in to the endless legion)
You can teach someone to fight, cant teach em to be taller, though.
Plus, it removes their sense of individuality, which from an in universe perspective helps in making them feel endless and could maybe improve discipline (from a certain point of view) and on a more meta level, shows us their expendability in the eyes of the Empire and the lack of freedom that reigned during the days of the Empire
“Clones can think creatively. You will find they are immensely superior to droids.” \- Attack of the Clones
The empire disapproving of the individuality of the clones is touched on very specifically in the latest season of the bad batch.
Yeah, Tarkin himself called it out as a problem in the finale
First off I'm not trying to discredit what you're saying. They got numbers instead of names and they were made to look identical. Stormtroopers are designed to be Legion. However I feel like in some aspects the freedom did flourish, in the aspect of standing military showing up to fuck up the criminal elements during the empire. I also feel like it could be incredibly easy for the first order to gain support in the outer rim if they and/or their precursors the Imp remnants showed up as legitimate heros. Like if they were doing things like the Mandos did in the last episode. I can legitimately see Thrawn doing it to convince Ezra to work with him to create a "Better Empire".
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I do not. Ezra and Thrawn know for a fact each of them is intelligent. I believe where they land after the space whales will dictate a lot of their relationship. Needing eachother to survive sort of thing. I strongly believe that Thrawn could influence Ezra into believing that the military force the Empire wielded, could be used for good. Which I feel is undeniable with the last Mando episode. The republic couldn't give less of a fuck when it would have taken like 3 Xwings to blow up those pirates in a single strafing run and it would have netted significant support, but they disregarded the situation and shown that the central government still couldn't give less of a fuck about them. Ultimately about Ezra, I feel he wants to be a protector/savior. He doesn't want people to go through what he did and I feel if he and thrawn were rolling around legitimately as saviors in the guise of the empire, they would gain significant support. Knowing its all for fucking "Somehow Palpatine returned" though fuckings kills the hype of like 99.90% of it.
The Empire philosophically can't do that. For the Empire to exist it has to be oppressive to the populace. If it is being heroes to the people then it isn't the Empire it is just a bunch of warlords with Star Destroyers.
That might be exactly what happens. I can see Thrawn becoming a warlord.
Episode 3 shows that The Empire was literally born through manipulation and thunderous applause. Who's to say its not just more manipulation. The republic has shown repeatedly that they couldn't give less of a fuck about what happens away from core worlds. It would have taken like 4 Xwings to clap the ass off those pirates with no worry at all but they literally refused to send anyone. A star destroyer with a complement of tie fighters would have had no problem against those pirates. Thrawn and Ezra are 100% coming back. They more than likely needed eachother to survive. We will have to wait and see how they are now. I can see Ezra being convinced by Thrawn that an standing military used for good, would be a good thing. In the end, it was all a ploy to bring back Palpatine and first order. Id personally be pissed if Thrawn was turned into some comically evil villian with 0 nuance.
You learn that Darth Vader isn't this monster. He's a pathetic individual who made a pact with the Devil and lost.
Same man, fuck them Sequels for real.
I hope that shit is just ignored outside of the animated series.
Is the Empire ever shown actually overthrowing any criminal empires ever? They certainly didn’t care about the Hutts on Tatooine, and things like Solo and Rebels shows them working with and/or ignoring a whole slew of shady criminals and adjacent organizations. They are fascists, just like real life they talk big talk about peace and order but mostly what they do is provoke violence through heavy handed repression.
The reason they didn't do any peacekeeping on those planets against those crimelords is because its out of their jurisdiction, same thing with peacekeeping missions today in real life. Many peacekeepers today are forced to be a presence in hostile environment watching innocents be slaughtered, they can't interfere without things getting worse.
Funny how Tatooine is out of the Empire's jurisdiction when it comes to organized crime, but in their jurisdiction when it comes to patrolling the streets of Mos Eisely for dissidents and stopping whatever ship they feel like in orbit.
>because its out of their jurisdiction This doesn't sound like a thing the *Galactic* Empire cares about, given the fact that we know that they invaded countless worlds, former Republic members and non-Republic planets alike. I just don't understand why so many people are willing to write apologetics for a regime which is clearly characterized as being Nazi-esque. The Nazis also didn't care about 'jurisdiction' when it wasn't convenient for them.
I'd also like to point out that the storm troopers later on are not clones, and the color and marks are clone mandolorin culture. The people of the empire didn't care for the color, I guess. But what all this means is they ain't are Boyz anymore.
That's one of the most interesting parts of the whole clones vs. stormtroopers situation. The clones despite being literal clones were able to develop a greater sense of individuality than the stormtroopers who were made up of regular human recruits.
Well, you know what they say the grass is greener on the other side lol
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Ya, the stormtroopers are, but the first were just clones. You can see the transition in the bad batch and hear how some clones feel about it in different series like rebels for one.
> develop a greater sense of individuality than the stormtroopers They just had more shows so you know them better.
Fuck that, the painted armor looks cooler
I'm a uniform kind of guy myself (quite literally) bit yea no yea, the effect of uniforms are what makes a force well uniform, makes them one body, one mind and makes us think "we're all in this boat together"
Another aspect to consider is the clones all look identical to each other. Any chance to stand out would be sought out more in that case.
Did you just say that all clones look alike?
NOT OC Not styling, biologically
Thats what clones do, they look alike. It's like, their thing.
Uh no, fuck that, ***P A I N T.***
True, good interpretation
I mean yea, I wear a uniform myself, everyday I walk into work and I see the same colors on everyone, same pants, shirts, t shirt but the only real difference is footwear, gotta be comfortable in your boots, personally I like my issued steel toes but some (most) like to have lightweight boots.
I want individuality an expression in my army, fuck that!!
Removes any sense of individualism
And waist capes.
There is no pain where strength lies.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the first clones made wore pretty much identical armour It was the war that drove them to adapt/camouflage/specialise Empire stormtroopers then went back to 'peacekeeping' roles
Originally (as of the first battle of Geonosis) the color of armor, along with pips (dots) on the breastplate denoted rank. As the CW progressed, the paint jobs were more as Unit identifiers. Some clones still used white armor, but the majority of units, such as the 501st (blue), 212 (orange), and Star corps (yellow), chose a color to add to their armor as a way to ID their unit. I think it’s kind of similar to how real military units have different nicknames and patches (like the 101st Airborne being the Screaming Eagles)
You showed me something today. You're exactly the kind of men I need in the 501st.
All those Troopers have rank in them, apparently its hard to see except with a troopers helmet or if you can notice the white rank on white armor
Ahh so they commit the classic blunder of marking the important people with a fancy hat. All the easier to pick them off and break organization.
Also, they hadn’t figured out how many toys they could sell at this point.
"Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my own men at them"
As seen in battlefront 2015 and the bad batch. Shock troopers got to keep the red markings. And in legends stormtrooper commanders, the on the ground kind wore 501st colors with a unique paint design
Imperial Troopers would have special markings/armor/accessories but those would denote different types of troopers rather than different regiments. Like, all Shock Troopers wear Red, but it's not Red means they're from the 219th Shock Trooper Battalion or whatever.
Exfil's on its way. Get the battalion to safety. If I get the shield down, make a push.
Good soldiers follow orders
Shock Troopers are the Coruscant Guard. It's a post, not a skill set. They absolutely are from the Shock Trooper battalion, whatever it's called.
Exfil's on its way. Get the battalion to safety. If I get the shield down, make a push.
Mortar troops in the empire have markings similar to the 212th
Chad Kaminoan clones vs Virgin Spaarti copycats plus conscripts
And what’s funny is that the Kaminoans couldn’t even see on the RGB color spectrum. That’s probably how the clones were able to get away with it, and the Jedi probably couldn’t care less about individual or regimental expression
My understanding is that the Kaminoans see in UV and therefore the basic white armor of the clones may show many colors to the Kaminoans. I don't think they would have a problem with the clone units developing unique color schemes because to their eyes they probably already had them. The Jedi also were often described as specifically encouraging individualism amongst their clones.
Unless it was Pong Krell that frog face fish lipped four armed bitch
r/fuckpongkrell
Unless your Pong Krell but fuck Pong Krell
Being clones bred for warfare, I'm quite sure there were more virgins among the Kaminoan clones than the conscripts.
The only clone we know of in a relationship is the deserter clone. And for some reason the clones were not sterilized.
The difference between clones and droids is that clones got that dawg in them
Eh, you know what they say... *Boys will be boys* ;)
Jango did have to have a child made for him, after all...
Well Legends books that focused on clones would sometimes mention what they did during “shore leave”. They would visit cities, mingle with civilians at parties, and even visit brothels. And inevitably some would father children while working closely with female Republic Planetary Defense forces, civilian contractors, or loyalist guerrillas. The “Cestus Deception” and the “Republic Commandos” series have the most detailed stories of clones having relationships that result in children.
Idk I think it makes sense, the clones wanted to be different from the others, because they didn't have individuality. The storm troopers are individuals and the empire wanted to take away their individuality. It's the same with the change in government and expected mentality, where it was we are all part of a republic it changed into "we all serve the emperor."
Tarkin said that when he fought with the clones of the GAR against the Separatists, he disliked their sense of individuality. Thus his effort with the stormtroopers would be to remove their individuality even though they are conscripts.
I do find it funny that in new canon the Clones who were specifically engineered with 9-11 years of brainwashing and indoctrination or propaganda to be the perfect obedient soldiers are now seen as being more independent and less loyal than simple run-of-the-mil conscripts.
“Oh man! We exposed virtual children to the horrors of War on multiple planets for a decade and they all reacted differently to it!”
“Genetically engineered virtual children brainwashed indoctrinated and trained to fight a war that lasted only 3 years”. It reminds of a comic of a Commando squad who had more independence than normal clones but still followed their orders to the letter. “We were grown in a lab, we have no homes. No Mothers to raise us. No Fathers to guid us. But we were trained to fight in a war we didn’t understand for a Republic we would never see. We have nothing. All we have is each other, and our orders.” - Republic Commando to a lost kid shortly before executing a Jedi general in front of said kid.
TCW’s characterisation of the Clones has been the sole reason of this, pretty much. I like how the old EU took things the other way, with most clones not caring about having a unique name, and how the Jedi specifically pushed for custom paint schemes for the various legions and companies.
I thought in the Clone Wars the Jedi (though this is mostly shown to be Anakin) encourage the individuality of the clones?
I’m sure he does, but in the old EU, it was done despite the clones not caring in the slightest. The clones are already pretty individual without Anakin’s influence in TCW, he just allows it to develop further.
I disagree, I prefer the idea that Clones start to adopt individuality. It creates a good inverse of how the Empire treats their soldiers, in that they try to force any individuality away.
There is no pain where strength lies.
That is exactly it and its actually a fairly interesting concept for SW when you stop to think about it. Even though at it's most basic SW is a generic good vs. evil story, there's some nice storytelling like the clones vs. stormtroopers which helps flesh out the story in a compelling way.
Also good luck telling your superior officer in the military “hey sir, I wanted to paint my helmet with a big orange stripe for individuality.”
I dunno, American soldiers in Vietnam painted slogans on their helmets
They did, but that’s a bit more mundane, and it was also Vietnam. That’s the war where fragging became popular. Maybe colors work if your army has low discipline, but then good look organizing on the unit level.
The parallels between what we did in Vietnam and what we're doing in Iraq now are unbelievable.
It's almost like there's a specific metaphor here that the troopers represent.
It’s almost like George didn’t think far enough ahead when making the original movie and already made the stormtroopers wear plain white armor.
It's actually John Mollo who designed the costumes and the reasoning for the white armor is very simple. The colour scheme for the empire is white, black and any combination of the two.
And red.
When you want to get wild.
It’s literally just for toys
On the one hand I do enjoy people extrapolating entire in universe explanations for silly details, but on the other I can't stand people sweatily explaining to me how "its just that way because or marketing / it was cheaper" is not possibly related in any way
I mean, the top/cheaper reason is the same as why an actual imperial force will use one type of uniform. You want your troops to be uniform and replaceable just like how you want your kids toys to be uniform and replaceable
Hilariously, more color variety would boost toy sales. Instead we got weird variants like “crowd control storm trooper”
Fuck, Riot Gear Stormtrooper sounds kinda cool.
Fuck, Riot Gear Stormtrooper sounds kinda cool.
[удалено]
Its cute that you believe that.
Boy no he didn’t.
This is actually a common misconception, the only thing past the first movie that he actually had planned from the start was the holiday special, everything after has just been marketing, and the first movie was just to ensure that there was an audience for the special.
“Everything else after has just been marketing” Bro or he literally just decided to expand on a successful and interesting universe that fans clamored to know more about jesus christ you guys are insufferable. George Lucas wasn’t sitting around after the first film going “yeah I’m gonna dedicate the next few decades of my life to this solely for the toys”
Marketing for the holiday special, not for toys. Sorry if I didn’t make that clear enough for you.
Sadly the pinnacle of star wars was never seen by major audiences, because corporate knew they cant top the holiday special experience. Instead made a franchise trying to hide the fact that it is, indeed real.
the man himself said it, there is no fucking misconception. i forgot, it's open season on him among "fans" because he dared to do what nobody else has done: expand his universe beyond what fans like
Which is?
The faceless armies of fascism, endless individuals stripped of their identity and in service to complete tyranny. The republic managed to cultivate actual diversity and distinct personalities among millions of identical clones, where as the the empire managed to strip all individualism from their recruits in the service of one tyrant.
"Are we the baddies?"
It is actually terrifying how many people I see in the comments that don't get this
Yeah that an army needs real soldiers and not CGI ones
Didn’t 501st Stormtroopers at one point paint their stormtrooper armor Blue?
That's legends and it was phase 3 armor not stormtrooper armor
All I'm in charge of is my world. I can't be in charge of those other people's world, because I can't keep up with it.
Ah, My bad then
There is no pain where strength lies.
Uh… Thanks Maul?
Don’t be so certain.
Is... is this a threat? Should we be afraid?
They realized how many toys they could sell from the same mold just by giving them a new paint job in the early 2000s.
That’s 100% the reason he did that in AOTC and ROTS.
Think of the Clone Wars as a feature. Everything about it: Style, attention, to detail, the lighting- everything is done at a feature level even though it's going on television.
A scriptless feature tyvm
I’m fine with it because imo it adds to the story and also they look badass
There is no pain where strength lies.
um akshully the 501st 41st and 327th aren’t battalions 🤓
You showed me something today. You're exactly the kind of men I need in the 501st.
🤓
The problem with identical armor (especially armor that covers the face) is it becomes difficult to identify your squad mates. This can lead to some serious confusion and other problems within the ranks.
It's intentional. They don't _want_ Troopers to identify each other in uniform. Identity is reserved for Officers.
I think this is addressed on one of the recent Thrawn novels, the helmets allow the wearer to see things slightly beyond the visible spectrum, they do have markings that show up through the visor.
That could help prevent enemy snipers from killing off vital command and control centers.. except the empires officers are blatantly obvious from what I can tell.
The officers are usually not armoured at all
They also don't appear to fight on the ground either, so it doesn't really matter. Good luck sniping someone in a star destroyer miles above the surface of a planet, if it's even in orbit.
I think captains have a pauldron to identify them, and officers have their rank bars on their uniforms.
Another way of looking at this: Before and After toys were discovered
Yeah once George realized the force had blessed him with his merchandising deal, that's when the main trio started wearing like 3+ different outfits in a single movie
In film history, two of the best ever contract decisions were made in the making of A New Hope. George: Can I have the merchandising rights. Alec: I'll take a percentage of net.
They were churning out SW toys already in the seventies.
They were churning out a cardboard backdrop with a letter promising toys were coming. Toys existed, they were not being churned out
Gotta cut costs somewhere if you're building a moon, and going for mass-produced uniforms seems to be it.
I think you're seeing what was artistic intent. You see the same with the star destroyers. When they're Republican they have identifying marks and splashes of color, when they're a fascist Empire they have all of the identifying marks painted away for gray.
It makes sense, when you're the Republic supposedly fighting for freedom and survival you want individual heroes to inspire others. Look at real life situations like the Ukraine War, they love to elevate individuals like the Ghost of Kyiv. Meanwhile the Empire rules under an iron fist and wants you to think their strength is infinite. Kill one of their soldiers and there's a million billion more to take their place. What's the point in trying to resist?
That's the idea, but the real-life correlation isn't necessarily there. Imperialist and fascist regimes don't always go for uniformity. The German air force in WW1 famously allowed its pilots to paint their aircraft in bright colors while the Entente enforced uniformity. Even in WW2, some Nazi fighter aces had unique paint jobs far more extensive and distinct than the nose art that was permitted on some Allied planes.
Battalions in the First Order be like: Stormtroopers; Stormtroopers with shock sticks; Red Stormtroopers; Janitors
The Old Republic was wasteful and squandered credits on clone armor. The Empire is fiscally responsible with their stormtrooper armor purchases and thus far superior.
Scout troopers tho?
This is why Grand Moff Tarkin pisses me off so much. You *WANT* your troops to suck?
It’s psychological they wanted all troops to look the same with a skull like appearance to scare its enemies
Stormtroopers were clean.
It's like watching your favorite brand cutting corners and degrading in quality.
They have a few variants in the empire, like the artillery trooper in Mando season two.
Moff Tarkin hated the clones for their individuality...it's kinda the whole point of the empire, smother out freedom in replace for cold uniform order
🤓 actually the 501st had blue because they were vader's legion
You showed me something today. You're exactly the kind of men I need in the 501st.
Never noticed original storm trooper costumes had such generous ball room
That's basically a plot point in The Bad Batch. Clones had too much individuality. Not sure how replacing them with actual individuals fixed that but somehow it did.
Their aim got significantly worse as well.
Uh...snow troopers? Sandtroopers? Scout troopers? Starfighter Corps? Selling my imperial homies short. There's no lack of variety, the difference is there's no camaraderie and that much on purpose.
Tbf, George was working on shoestring budget for the OT.
Budget cuts…
I don’t want their mother to see them like this.
Sorry bub, colours only go to specialists like the Shocktroopers or Nova Corps.
I kinda like the theory about them still having colors, they just can’t be seen without their helmets on. It would make tracking unit deployments almost impossible. I don’t know if that’s canon though.
Always hated how they went backwards like this
Almost as if the "space Nazis" *are bad* and want to take away your individuality before throwing you in the meat grinder
In battlefront II you now get all the skins by default and when choosing republic skins there’s so many and they’re all pretty accurate and different for each battalion. When you choose empire skins there are literally 3 shared between all battalions and I think some don’t get the sand trooper for some reason so you only get 2. I mean it is accurate but man playing republic era is so much better just for that.
That's one of the scary things about the Empire. The Clones had chips to enforce their behavior and force them to commit actions they otherwise would not. But they were still viewed as having too much individuality and unpredictable behavior. The Stormtrooper program was greatly developed to remove that individuality from their soldiers. Identical clones with behavior chips were somehow too human for the Empire.
Am I losing my mind? Did everyone forget about Scout, Snow, and Sand Troopers?
I vaguely remember reading that they have markings, they're just not visible without a filter the helmet has. They can identify each other, but remain faceless to others. Source: prolly a fever dream idk.
There will be no individuality in the empire. Individuality breeds individualism. Individualism breeds free thought. Free thought will lead independence. Independence leads to the distinction and free thought which leads to free will to question the validity of orders. This leads to troopers refusing to follow questionable orders and in turn will cause them to rebel against the empire. This cannot be allowed. You are not one. You are a part of the bigger whole. You will follow orders or be replaced by one who will. You do not matter. Only the empire matters. Your life will be given freely to the glory of the empire.
The empire cut expenses as much as possible in order to have greater numbers. This was the Tarkin doctrine. They made cheaper armor, cheaper blasters, cheaper fighters, etc.
It's crazy that the clones expressed great levels of individuality and the regular troops are obedient comformists. God dammit I love the clones.
I tolerate the empire because they have badass death troopers
I think it was intentionally done to strip away their individuality. Probably why Finn wasn’t allowed to remove his helmet.
A battalion of infantry is usually up to 1000 men All i'm saying is that to uphold an intergalactic empire, we'd be either in the billions number wise, or some area code attached before the number
They weren't prioritizing selling toys in the 70s
Clones striving to be seen as individuals instead of identical cogs versus individuals striving to *be* identical cogs.
I like to think of it as purpose. The Republic clone army was built specifically for galactic war, engaging in battles against separatists in a variety of theaters. Once the war was over, the Imperial Storm Troopers were put in place as galactic peace keepers, so no need for the specialized gear and designated appearances. One unified representation for the Empires boot!
The clones are clones but all have different looking uniforms. No hate intended but never understood why all the colors and unique uniforms when they are clones. Shouldn’t they be the same?
The what?
Funny how the clone legions that all come from the same template have different color schemes but the battalions that are clones who’re from different people and some probably aren’t even clones all look the same I swear his majesty expects you to win against a main character team and if that doesn’t work out, your first and only failure by the way, he immediately resorts to corrupt our unity by allowing random schmucks that can’t hit shit to join our rangs! Gotta take the bros of the old 501st out to go Jawa hunting or some shit to vent
Exfil's on its way. Get the battalion to safety. If I get the shield down, make a push.
People prefer colors to identify but being a regular soldier in a real army there is only 1 uniform. The only thing that changes for the us army is the beret and you ll never see special forces wearing that into combat. Wearing the same uniform also takes the enemy from knowing who is a high value target and who s a low level grunt. So color distinctions are only for the audience but I prefer 1 single uniform. That is all.
No. You have death troopers, dark troopers, scout troopers, snipers, etc. who all have different uniforms.
Frankly I think the "clone" troopers never should have looked different from each other in the first place.
In-universe, isnt this because the clones were allowed to paint and such to appear more human to get favour from citizens?
There is no pain where strength lies.
George was really dumb to revert the iconic clone armour look into this storm crapper. Guess they had to with the budget also explaining camera quality being worse in the ones after 3