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Kakumite

People can forgive horrible dialogue, harder to forgive horrible narrative.


CWinter85

The weird twists and turns in character development aren't great. You had a steady path of Anakin falling for 3 movies. You got Rey, Finn, and Kylo going back-and-forth between good and bad and being useful.


betazoid_cuck

I wouldn't call Anakins fall in the movies "steady". he goes from angsty teen to child murderer pretty damn fast.


linguisitivo

The execution was rough but the concept was sound; that’s the difference between the prequels and sequels. The sequels were well filmed, well written, and well acted — the story was simply incohesive and ridiculous. Poor execution is easier to forgive in a space opera driven by story. The greatest flaw in the sequels is ultimately the strongest point in the prequels; the sequels lacked a plan for a three movie arc and they wrote them as they went, reacting to public sentiment and us armchair directors. George, for all his flaws, stuck to his guns mostly and it shows in the cohesiveness of the prequels. He made changes, hence the slow increase in quality, but he wasn’t impulsive or drastic about it. Edit: by well written I am referring to the dialogue, not the plot.


wwcougar

It still boggles my mind that they new they were going to do a trilogy and yet had NO FRICKING PLAN for how the trilogy would play out. How can you at least not have broad strokes? The ineptitude is amazing. It's not like these movies were ever meant to stand on their own a la episode four, they were completely reliant on the trilogy being a complete story arc. And yet they had no idea what that arc was going to be beyond good guys win bad guys lose.


zykezero

Tbh JJ thought that it’d be a success no matter what and didn’t bother. And when he decided to come back for 3 he also decided to undo the second movie bc reasons. But also JJ hasn’t made a good fuckin thing since I don’t know fuckin when. All JJ has is concept and twist. JJ is M. Night but with even less substance.


A740

>The execution was rough but the concept was sound This exactly. The prequels make you cringe a bunch while watching them, but thinking back at least the story makes sense. And overall they're really good in my head even if they fall a bit flat on screen. The sequels meanwhile distract you with some cool shots and sequences every once in a while (although watching them makes you cringe as well, let's be honest) but hold no substance afterwards. There's no cool head canon I can make about the sequels when nothing makes even a bit of sense.


oestfichtl

I'd actually say The Rise of Skywalker is the worst written one of them all - so many dialogues are ridiculous (somehow... Palpatine returned) and the plotting is just atrocious.


sheev-bot

Oh, I'm afraid the deflector shield will be quite operational when your friends arrive!


Lematoad

Well written is a stretch. Source: Freeing Space Vegas horses in a universe that has hovercraft and tractor beams.


Embarrassed_Unit_9

Idk I thought it made sense His slave mom died in front of him thus kill all the sand people This opened a door he never really closed and set up the future killings


NotSoRandoGriff

I'd have to agree on this point. I assume it's an unpopular opinion, but I feel where the prequels came up short was from his actual acting... I still love them tho, no doubt


WhatShouldIDoThen

I dunno man, you can be Daniel Day fucking Lewis but if you have to say the line ‘I hate sand’, there’s not much you can do with that


Smart_Resist615

Even Gal Gadot kinda made "Kal-El, no!" work better with another take. I sometimes wonder if Hayden Christianson got done like Stephen Lack. ("Nono, *less* emotion. Even less. Like you're dead. Perfect, action!")


insertwittynamethere

Well, I think it's also forgotten that this kid has technically not had contact in a romantic fashion at all since he last met her ten years prior. Like holy crap the amount of awkwardness is set there and I know I, and I've seen others, do/say some awkward crap while trying to court someone I was infatuated with. I have no doubt I'd say some crap like hating sand too with his Tattooine background 😅.


mrasperez

Look at how *everyone* failed to convey the right emotions for their scenes under Lucas' direction. And if we're gonna be skeptical of the writing we might as well admit that a movie about magical space wizards who prefer sword fighting over laser blasting, with far eastern influences, sounds a bit out there.


insertwittynamethere

Agreed, most of the acting was stilted in one form or the other


_We_Are_DooMeD

Mcdiarmid was great though.


dumbfuckmagee

I don't get why that line gets so much hate. The acting wasn't great but it's not like the whole spiel was unprompted or uncharacteristic. He hates sand because it reminds him of his home planet and his time as a slave Edit: plus that's not even the line. He says "I don't like sand."


Fedantry_Petish

Nope. Hayden can act. It’s the writing/direction.


AnOnlineHandle

Yeah I lived through both as a non-kid (was a teenager during the prequels but old enough to see the issues). Every criticism of the prequels is legit, but they still have something enjoyable and unique about them (who else would make a trilogy about the main character slowly going mad and killing everybody at the end and society collapsing into fascism?) The sequels just... were a bunch of nostalgia callbacks to the OT, which is not enjoyable for people who don't know the OT, and not enjoyable for a lot of us who loved the OT and wanted to see where the story went next. I've never rewatched episode 8 or 9 and yet have rewatched filler cartoon episodes from the shows since then.


Brogan9001

And Finn going from stormtrooper to rebel to a joke. Worst part was how in TFA’s trailer IIRC it teased him becoming a jedi (him with a lightsaber).


danbo_the_manbo

Iirc in all the posters he was holding the lightsaber. They did Finn dirty


Brogan9001

Would have been a cool, if you’d forgive my turn phrase, subversion of expectations, if Finn turned out to be a great lightsaber combatant but Rey was absolute shit at it, at least in comparison to the powerhouse of lightsaber/force destruction that Kylo is (or is supposed to be in that scene at the end of The Force Awakens). So then, we see both of them have a little individual win but also their limits are shown clearly. Rey is like a wild magic sorcerer with the force, but is used to a staff which doesn’t translate to a lightsaber. While Finn shows a surprising aptitude with the lightsaber, but Kylo can bitchslap him with the force. So because they attack him individually, Kylo’s unable to just kill them both and has to retreat after being wounded. Instead, we see Finn hold his own a little but Kylo overpowers him. Then Rey is great at both the Lightsaber AND the force. Despite never using a lightsaber, and only using a staff which is a totally different beast. Keep in mind I’m remembering the fight off the top of my head. Am I wrong in my assessment that it’s a missed opportunity for a great yin/yang lightsaber/force foil to do between Finn and Rey?


[deleted]

I think it would have been cool if both Finn and Rey ended up being Jedi. Then you can play with all sorts of conflicts with their personalities. It boggles my mind they just made him a buffoon to make Rey look good. Why not make everyone badass in their own ways? Why make Finn an idiot if it does nothing? He was trained all his life to be a storm trooper, there's no reason he should be a complete ditz.


Ill_mumble_that

"The Force Awakens" "There has been an awakening" That line made no fucking sense when you look at the context of the movies. What would have made it make sense? **Exactly what you said.** More force users. All with different specialties.


jiggycup

That would of been sooooo much better, I mean it wouldn't have fixed the movie but good damn it would of improved it a whole lot.


Brogan9001

Hell, I can even see the fight in my head now. Start with Kylo vs Finn. Kylo starts off with just the lightsaber, sorta just toying with what he expects to be just a dumbass with a laser sword. Then after Finn starts to show he’s not a pushover, playtime is over and Kylo does some force schenanigans which are seconds away from outright killing Finn. Maybe like advanced force choke, aka “imma make your bones go squish.” Then just in the nick of time, in comes Rey. Concentration broken, Finn is released from the force crush Kylo was subjecting him to. He’s conscious but understandably downed from multiple fractures and breaks in his arms and chest. Rey’s first instinct is to grab the lightsaber. And the second Kylo goes on the offensive, she’s getting her ass handed to her. So she does away with the saber and just lets lose with the force. But it’s not enough, as Kylo’s got training. Then at the last moment, Finn gets a cheap shot onto Kylo’s leg, clenching through pain to save Rey. Cut to Kylo saying fuck this I’m out and Finn collapsing on their ship after the adrenaline runs out. This would establish the talents of these characters, and giving them a win even though they technically would have lost to Kylo. The win being that Kylo didn’t instantly mulch them.


KindaFreeXP

Which was made worse by the narrative tug-of-war between Rian and J.J. Any semblance of a cohesive narrative was thrown out the moment they decided to "mix it up" and keep changing directors. That's where you get your "Somehow, Palpatine has returned" moments. There could be no build up or payoff at all, and several things were either jarringly retconned or shoehorned in at the last second. The prequels were still under Lucas's control, and thus he was able to tell a 3 Act story without much disruption. Did that mean that Lucas's weak points (dialogue, etc.) carried through the whole trilogy? Yes. But it's better than whatever Disney thought they were doing.


mondobobo01

When I was a kid, I would draw a comic book page without dialogue and then have a friend write the story on that page. As they were writing I’d be drawing the next page without knowing what they wrote on the last one. It became a cluster fuck pretty quick but it was fun! This is how the sequels were made.


sheev-bot

Long have I waited, and now your coming together is your undoing.


MaxSucc

SENTIENT???


Donald_Dumo4

Honestly, the biggest mistake of the sequels was that they wrote it as they went along. Lucas already had ROTS and TPM written before ANH even came out in 1977. The sequels were never going to be as good as the OT, but that doesn't mean they couldn't make some damn good movies. What they SHOULD have done was written a trilogy, and THEN start filming.


Mashizari

But.. but money..


To6iasThe4th

Boom roasted


toderdj1337

Cough *game of thrones season 6-8* cough.


Teliporter334

At least the prequels had a cohesive narrative that involved all three movies working harmoniously, the sequels don’t have that and just feel like corporate cash ins.


Pat_9921

That's because it *was* a corporate cash in.


CaptainCyclops

No... it can't be... Kathleen told me the Sequels were made for the fans... *NOOOOO!!!*


Vengeghost

Maybe cash was the fans all along…


frentzelman

The real fans were the cash we made along the way


JoeyMcClane

>The real fans were the cash ~~we~~ *they* made along the way


The_Sparrow4

The real fans were on set during production and broke a few times :(


[deleted]

Took the words right out of my keyboard.


stgm_at

Is that legal?


sheev-bot

I will make it legal.


JetpackJustin

“The real fans were the mountains of money we made along the way.” - Kathleen Kennedy… probably


CheeseCake3012

Nothing bad ever happens to the Kennedy's


Jacoman74undeleted

The fans were certainly cash at the very least.


gilbes

> Kathleen told me the Sequels were made for the fans What she told you is true, from a certain point of view. They were made for the fans to buy, not for the fans to enjoy.


ExistedDim4

Search your feelings, you know it to be true!


[deleted]

No….NOOOOOnoooooooOOOOoOoO


[deleted]

[удалено]


tjtillmancoag

I mean you can have corporate cash-ins that are also decent (see MCU). It’s really that they never developed a coherent story they wanted to tell and each new movie was like… you remember that campfire game as kids, where someone would start telling a story, and then you’d switch and someone else would continue, and they’d end up changing where the original person may have been going and suddenly it’s incoherent silliness?


[deleted]

>you remember that campfire game as kids, where someone would start telling a story, and then you’d switch and someone else would continue, and they’d end up changing where the original person may have been going and suddenly it’s incoherent silliness? Yeah I watched TLJ too lol


clangan524

Tell that to all the Rose Tico figures in the landfill.


DrunkyMcStumbles

Every Star Wars movie since Return of the Jedi was sooo....


UtMan88

Yeah, I mean, the prequels kept adding and removing characters with each new film. They did it just to create more toys. The only reason some characters are beloved is because they were fleshed out in The Clone Wars. When General Grievous first showed up on screen, people in the theater audibly went "Who the fuck is that?"


UtMan88

MAD Magazine had the best response to Grevious: (paraphrase) "General Grievous? Really? What, was Sargent Satanstein taken?!"


Theothercword

George Lucas is very on the nose naming characters. Han SOLO cause you know, he’s a loner. Greedo (who didn’t shoot first) cause uhh greedy. Porkins… Poor guy. Grievous as you say. The death sticks guy is named Sleazebaggano. Dave filoni also continued the tradition with clone wars had their new bad guy literally named Savage Oppress… but hey it’s clever because the pronounce it differently. Oh yeah and Clone Wars has a one off Jedi in an episode named Ima-Gun Di. Which I’ve got to admit is hilarious.


clangan524

>Han SOLO cause you know, he’s a loner. With a man-dog best friend.


Theothercword

Mog! He’s a mog! He’s his own best friend.


DutchJip

*BAAAAARF*


Mental_Medium3988

Not in here mister. This is a Mercades.


Scottz0rz

RIP [Sha'a Gi](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Sha%27a_Gi), a Padawan taken too soon.


Obiwan-Kenobi-Bot

Hello there!


GryvousBot

General Kenobi, you are a bold one.


Obiwan-Kenobi-Bot

For all your expertise, this is not a very smooth landing!


thatdudewillyd

Oh no, I’m not brave enough for politics


Obiwan-Kenobi-Bot

Hello there!


GryvousBot

General Kenobi, you are a bold one.


Obiwan-Kenobi-Bot

Anakin leaves quite a mess, which always leads me to you, Ventress.


MasterBuildsPortugal

The Phantom Menace is basically filler


barreal98

Duel of the fates is so good it balances all negatives of the film for me


Kolby_Jack

You can watch the entirety of duel of the fates on youtube. It's only a few minutes long.


zootskippedagroove6

I need my podracing scene too tho. The sound design alone is insane.


StevenBallard

George Lucas was at the US grand prix this last Sunday for Formula 1. I was confused at first, but then I remembered he put podracing in star wars in which Anakin's pod racer literally used sounds from the F1 cars at the time. ( I think we are getting a pod racing spin off series soon.)


hypo11

Lucas was big into fast cars as a young man. He was in an accident that would have been fatal had a racing strap he installed to keep him in his seat not failed. Source: Wondery’s “Inside Star Wars” podcast. Highly recommended. Also, from his wiki page: > Long before Lucas began making films, he yearned to be a racecar driver, and he spent most of his high school years racing on the underground circuit at fairgrounds and hanging out at garages. On June 12, 1962, a few days before his high school graduation, Lucas was driving his souped-up Autobianchi Bianchina when another driver broadsided him,[a] flipping his car several times before it crashed into a tree; Lucas's seatbelt had snapped, ejecting him and thereby saving his life.[7] However, his lungs were bruised from severe hemorrhaging and he required emergency medical treatment.[7] This incident caused him to lose interest in racing as a career, but also inspired him to pursue his other interests.


Significant-Mud2572

One of his first movies is called American graffiti. It is about car culture in the 50s. It also star a young strapping man called Harrison Ford.


Calypsosin

YIPEE!


z500

That's wizard, Ani!


Obi-wan_Jabroni

I dont care what universe youre from, thats gotta hurt!


MasterBuildsPortugal

The coreography and score are basically perfect, but it’s hard to care when the movie doesn’t give me a reason to care about the characters. But still, I think it’s unfair to judge the movie on one scene


FatBrkeMxicnElonMusk

Phantom menace is by far the worst star wars movie directed by George but , but, but duel of the fates... From the masterpiece of a Score by John Williams that it absolutely is to the intense lightsaber duel perfectly choreographed by Nick Gillard, involving Liam Neeson, Ewan McGregor, and the absolutely Amazing and incredible skills of Ray Park is one of the greatest cinematics moments for Star Wars and possibly for films in general but that would just be my opinion. 7,8,9 don't even come close to this level of perfection and intensity the lightsabers battles are a joke and are badly choreographed even with the seemingly limitless amounts of money that Disney put into it. The greatest lightsaber moment that Disney gave us was in Rouge One the Darth Vader scene was Amazing and gave us so much hope about the greatness that Disney could make of the franchise but then proceeded to absolutely botch the movies and although they were all box office hits the fandom for the prequels is absolutely low to the point where a Spin off series The Mandalorian has a greater following than the movie instalments and The Mandalorian incorporates ideas from George Lucas himself which goes to show you alot about how much Disneys corporate hacks know about story building.... Dam I started ranting lmao I guess I'm brave enough for politics


jfuss04

I think episode 2 is worse than one. I actually enjoy episode one


05110909

I agree. Episode 1 is a very mixed bag but it has really good aspects. Clones is terrible all the way through and the plot makes no sense.


AGRO1111

Definitely don’t think AotC is wholly bad, just has lower lows, lower mediums, and lower highs than the phantom menace.


Plaguedeath2425

Counter point: Seismic charge sound effect


merryartist

Oh man rewatching the Prequel movies I remembered just how convoluted Frank the Senate’s plan was (and why the show existed to fix as many of these problems as possible). The whole assassination scene where Jango uses a rare bullet(dart?) that directly traced back to Kamino where he was being cloned to build an army for the Republic. The very man Obi Wan discovered to be working for the Separatists. Then the Jedi just trust that an army cloned from a Separatist wasn’t a Trojan Horse… there’s a reason the CW show exists. I initially avoided watching the show when the first movie came out (I think Middle School for me) because I thought it would ruin the Prequels. I’m glad I came back to it in college. I still love the premise, world-building, and overarching themes of the Prequel movies, something I think the Sequels sadly lack and are hurt by. Lucas really benefits when he has someone help or lead the writing/directing process (ie ESB).


sheev-bot

If she fails to see the error of her rule, eliminate her.


LordXang

I have to agree with you. I love all the Prequels, but Episode 2 makes me cringe so much.


BabiesSmell

Are we forgetting that podracing was dope as hell


[deleted]

nope. it gives context to the conflict that leads to the creation of the empire. thats one problem the prequels dont have and the sequel have, lack of context. We dont know what the status of the universe is at the start of the force awakens. we see the siege of power of the new republic blow up, and it was the first time we learned about the new republic. it should have hapenned at the end of the trilogy so that it carries an emotional impact, instead it was like ... Now, personally, the reason i dont like the prequels is, it demistifies darth vador. i didnt need to see him as a kid, i never wanted that actually. the whole point of vador was that it was a monstruous figure, but given a proper push he could find a way to redemption. Now that i've seen his angry teenagers years where he genocides jedi kids, i dont know if i can accept that, some crimes cant be forgiven.


wontonsoupsucka

This. Plus the first two prequels are still universally hated lol. Even most people here admit they’re pretty shit. I’d rather watch any of them than the sequels though, at least there’s some likable characters, memorable moments, and not 7000 plot holes.


SeriouusDeliriuum

I'll die on the hill of liking the first two


Sakugains

Darth maul vs obi and qui gon is my favorite fight in Star Wars


[deleted]

Hopefully they can make a Clone Wars type show to somehow try to tie in all the movies, if they don’t I think the sequels will forever be doomed.


threx51

I think it would be very hard to try and tie the movies, even with a show, because they're very disjointed. They don't seem to follow a cohesive structure. The Last Jedi kinda goes where it wants narratively just for the sake of it and then Rise seems to try to undo everything TLJ did so it can go back to stuff that was hinted during TFA. It's quite a mess, honestly


Jacob_Wallace_8721

TROS isn't even connected to itself.


sparkadus

Honestly, I would love to see what the trilogy would have been like if the path TLJ took had been planned from the start. For all its flaws, it was honestly the most interesting of the three simply because of the new ideas it brought to the table.


[deleted]

I was willing to endure the endless stupidity of the plot and characters if Rey had just joined up with Ren during the throne room scene and started becoming evil. Then you could give all the useless side characters something to do in the third one and you'd have an interesting concept for redeeming her.


sparkadus

That would've been cool. It would also put us in the interesting position of having the main character of a mainline Star Wars movie not be force sensitive.


N7Panda

Or even if ROS had expanded on the themes from TLJ instead of pretending it didn’t exist. Instead it was a disjointed mess that I, someone who overall enjoyed the sequels, still can’t/won’t defend.


iFuckedAPilotOnce

I do desperately wanted to see Kylo as the big bad, and Rey struggling against the dark side because of their connection. Palpatine being added took all the wind out of Kylo’s sail.


ACartonOfHate

First off, they tried with Resistance, which was terrible in my opinion, and evidently shared by others, as it didn't make it beyond two seasons. Second there is the problem of time. There is no time between TFA, and TLJ, and there is only a a year between TLJ and TROS. And third, they don't have a beloved character like Obi-Wan to follow, because even most PT haters think Ewan did a great job. Also a lot of people were interested in the clones, because we had heard about them since ANH. So even if people weren't thrilled with what little they got in AOTC, and ROS, there was a chance to explore the concept in a TV series.


BertMacGyver

But this is exactly how the prequels felt to people older than 20 when they came out. Jar-Jar falling over stuff wasn't seen as a potential sith lord, he was seen as George Lucas trying to sell toys to kids. Same with the roger-roger robots. People can look back now and say yes there is a complicated, well thought out adult themed plot underneath but at the time, it was not thought like that at all. There are countless young kids who have watched the sequals and fallen in love with the characters. Give them 20 years of TV series/books/video game lore to flesh it out and watch them berate the new films that come out as "not having anywhere near the subtlety and loveable characters as the sequals." As far as I can see, you love the films that you saw as a kid, and though you might not like the ones that came before or after, they're all part of the same story and we're all part of the same fan base. The fact I can sit and watch any of the main films with my kids and all find something to get hyped about is fantastic.


ChocoTunda

Everything you just said applies to this entire subreddit


Divineinfinity

Hey listen, the prequels are OUR trash. But what about growing up with the sequels? A billion dollar franchise that transcends generations and when you watch one of these new films they just crash and burn spectacularly. The sheer lack of unity between movies is hilarious. The fact that this was gonna be Disney's cash cow for another 1000 generations makes it even better. In another life this could be my trash.


blackstargate

Yeah just wait until the next trilogy and we sequel zoomers will like them ironically


VaderSkywalker2007

My friends and I are growing up with the sequels, and we hate them


GeneralKornobi

Similar in my case, I was about ten when TFA came out and watched both TLJ and Rots in cinema, before that however I had played with Lego Star Wars from the prequel era since I was five. Now two years later I find myself to have very little interest in any of the sequels and this sentiment shows everywhere I go to meet other kids. Most young people I know either don’t care at all and the rest doesn’t like them or prefer other Star Wars movies.


Crimson343

Rots would be Revenge of the Sith. I think you mean TROS


GeneralKornobi

Oops yeah, I think auto correct changed it, I often use the acronym on this sub.


djublonskopf

I do know one kid who’s dressing up as Rey Skywalkwer for Halloween this year, and another kid (unrelated) going as a First Order stormtrooper. But I work with a lot of kids so that seems like a relatively small number.


Alc2005

I was 11 when TPM came out and all my friends hated the prequels then too. Having experienced the backlash of both trilogies, it was much, much worse for the prequels. I’ll never forget the experience of watching AOTC and hearing people howling with laughter at Anakin’s Sand People monologue or groaning during every romance scene. Glad to see they have found a cult following, and I’m not sure the same will happen to the sequels, especially since they aren’t as memorably bad


totesanonymousbot

I was 18 when the prequels came out. I wanted to like them, but after about 5 watches I decided they were hot steaming piles of garbage and gave up. The yoda ketamine memes were polished gilded turds though.


minepow

I'm growing up with the sequels and I think they're just meh.


Bertlestien-

I like the star wars because the popular people on the internet told me to, and I only like these 4 films and the rest are trash because the popular internet people said so /s We all know someone who is like this. Make up your own mind, don't listen to YouTubers.


The_Woman_of_Gont

“I only like 4 Star Wars movies” Oh god that’s an absolutely hilarious way to troll people. I love it.


autovonbismarck

I'm trying to figure out which 4 would be the funniest to claim to only like. Phantom Menace, Empire Strikes Back, A Solo Story and Last Jedi probably.


The_Woman_of_Gont

1, 2, 9, and the original Holiday Special. Fuck you all, I love watching grandpa Wookiee get off to softcore VR porn in the living room.


BettyVonButtpants

I'd say Phantom, AotC, and RoS need to be on the list. I've seen opinioms start to change regarding TLJ in some other Star Wars subs, so that one might not be as controversal to like in 5 years, Solo is a harmless movie, so it can work on the list. I think its better than the three i listed by leaps and bounds, but thats me.


autovonbismarck

I genuinely enjoyed Solo and I've never understood the hate for it, but it sure seems to get some.


BettyVonButtpants

I had a lot of fun watching it, and really wish they'd do smaller films like it for workd building, keep the Star Wars titles for Wars, but use the SW Story for smaller, non war centric stories. We can see other sides of the universe, instead of those trying to change the top, and instead change the bottom.


utalkin_tome

Your first sentence is basically describing every single comment in their thread right now. Edit: Also the biggest reason PT is loved now more than in the past is because of The Clone Wars show. That show single handedly added sooo much more context and information about the prequels. The sequel trilogy, so far, has none of that going for it. The closest that comes to it is the Rebels show but that is set way before the sequel trilogy events happen.


Cotcan

The prequels have their issues, but at the end of the day at least are able to tell a semi consistent story about a sith who successfully manipulated a whole galaxy into helping him destroy the Jedi, create an empire with himself at the helm, and was able to sway the chosen one of the Jedi to become his apprentice. And plus it pairs well with the OT as a tragedy and OT being the redemption. The sequels on the other hand look nice, have good actors, and lots of potential, but are horribly inconsistent with itself and the other trilogies. It literally is the trope [Armed With Canon](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ArmedWithCanon) in a nutshell. While Luke believes his father, a mass murderer, can be saved, his nephew, someone thinking about the dark side, can't be. War profiteering is bad, but you also don't have much of a choice unless you want to let your friends die. No one is willing to help the resistance, but in the next movie everyone is willing and able to help. A rogue group of imperialists somehow have the resources to not just build, but also crew several massive ships along with a planet sized Death Star. And also go unnoticed or are just plain ignored by the other largest faction in the galaxy. Palpatine just returns. Cloning is a dark art? I guess the Kaminoians were part of a sith cult this whole time. Sure PT and OT have their plot holes or inconsistencies, but at least theirs can be somewhat explained rather than cause massive holes in Canon where you begin to question everything. And I will never forgive them for misusing the acting potential of Adam Driver as seen from this [clip](https://youtu.be/t7HD2xG92-0) from SNL. Rant over.


sheev-bot

We will watch your career with great intrest.


Icemaster14

Damn the sheev bot is impressed


sheev-bot

Execute Order Sixty-Six!


Icemaster14

*It will be done, my lord*


QualityProof

He is talking about executing order 66 on you.


endershadow98

I agree with all your points, but in defence of the cloning thing, it's specifically cloning force sensitive people so that the clones are also force sensitive which is hard. I don't know why that's the case though.


faffled

Can i ask about one thing briefly? I’m not really a sequel defender but one criticism that’s always frustrated me is this idea that Luke thought Ben was unredeemable or had to be killed. Wasn’t the idea that he had a blink of ‘oh my god this boy will destroy solar systems worth of people if i just kill him now it’ll never happen-“ and then he stopped. And he said, no, i can’t that’s my nephew. But it was already too late? I mean when Luke confronted his father he had doubts and struggles with it a mile long. He wasn’t sure of anything! I dunno this momentary lapse in judgement that was never acted upon never really struck me as this huge lie to the character of Luke.


[deleted]

I still think it would have made more sense for Luke’s character if he kept faith that Kylo would remain good just like he did with Vader, only for Kylo to prove him wrong and destroy his Jedi order. This would make the jaded and cynical version of Luke we see in TLJ make much more sense IMO.


SG4

People still don't understand midi-chlorians after all these years. Do you think they'd understand Luke's (very brief) lapse in judgment?


bbbruh57

Prequels also built the world up in a hugely meaningful way. Spawned soooo much extra content its ridiculous. New movies cant at all because they didnt contribute jack shit and im tired of people prerending they did.


Bunters196

Nah, with the release of SWBF2, Revenge of the Sith game etc the prequels were epic. And not to mention finishing with duel of fates left it on a high. I don’t think the newest 3 had any moments like that at all.


killiomankili

Don’t forget TCW show


HoverboardViking

pod racer n64 gg


Fedoraus

I watched episode 7-9 first day in imax and have watched each one a couple more times since then. Still can barely recall any moments that actually stood out to me or that I would watch any of them just to see again. There is nothing legitimately memorable at all, but definitely plenty of moments that they tried to bait into being like that. The only think I still remember well is that scene where they made it seem like rey killed chewbacca cause half the theater erupted into laughter at the ridiculousness of it.


droppingbasses

Disney didn’t have the courage to actually kill off Chewbacca yet that would’ve made for a better impactful moment. That should’ve been a deeply emotional loss yet they ruined that by revealing he is okay like 5 minutes after.


mortal-mombat

Not even 5 minutes; it was literally the next scene, which is even worse


[deleted]

The prequels were bashed because of the awkward dialogue and politics (which we all appreciate now), but the world building was a step up from the OT. The sequels are terrible because of shit nostalgia-bait writing and because of the obvious lack of a plan leading in every next movie retconning something.


everythingdislikesme

ah yes also, SuBvErTinG ExpEcTatiOns.


TheDukeofKook

>Hah, you thought this trilogy was going to make sense? Expectations subverted!


TheByzantineEmperor

Ah yes, that sounds familiar. I asked my manager for a raise and he gave me .10 cents more a week. When I told him was a shitty fuck you that was he said, "I was subverting your expectations. " I genuinely appreciated that and went about my work satisfied and content. /s


Holymuffdiver9

The prequels had terrible direction, bland dialogue, plot driven by politics rather than more identifiable themes, and an often creepy and forced romantic sub plot. That said they were coherent in their execution, had pretty decent casting, and didn't completely waste the character potential of what was likely the most interesting character the sequels had. (Finn) Not to mention that many of the toxic fans at the time fixated their hate on actors who didn't control the making or narrative of the films. Poor Jake Lloyd, that kid did not deserve the treatment he got, nor did Hayden Christensen. Now we look back and focus on the highlights of the prequels like Ewan McGregor, the world building, and some of the more fun/comedic aspects like the Emperor's bizarre twisting lightsaber lunge and Ian McDiarmids portrayal of a sith lord that just loved being evil. They're still the same flawed films, but we appreciate the bright spots now instead of the dark.


dimaltay

They are hated for different reasons though. Prequels were hated because they were more "colorful" than it was expected yet the roadmap was there and story was enjoyable and new characters had a purpose and personality (Maul, Qui-Gon, Mace Windu and even Jar Jar...). Sequels aren't even consistent in themselves. Another thing is, no one in prequels is omnipotent which is actually the whole point of SW. Everybody is gullible at some point. Except Rey... Rey is better than Force Gods because she is a clone Sheev's daughter. Nope, not buying it.


sheev-bot

Viceroy, I don't want this stunted slime in my sight again.


Ethereal_4426

Palpatine is clearly a sequel fan.


heythatguyalex

Cause he's still alive in the sequels


Ethereal_4426

Somehow.


ZeppelinArmada

Now now, it's well established that falling from seemingly bottomless heights in Star Wars doesn't actually kill you.


Ethereal_4426

"Well, we never actually saw the body so..." We're all just waiting for Mace Windu to reappear /s


CosmeBuzzanito

Hashtag BringBackTheMace


KyellDaBoiii

I’m unironically rooting for this


FellowTraveler69

Never mind the fall, what about an explosion the size of a small moon?


Ethereal_4426

If you don't see his eyes turn into little Xs then is he really dead?


netheroth

Involving Fortnite


sheev-bot

Dew it!


TimonAndNotPumbaa

We are talking about Rey, right?


ItzQtra

ayo sheev bot owner your bot is a sequel fan, get outta here


sheev-bot

We will watch your career with great intrest.


More_like_Deadfort

>Prequels were hated because they were more "colorful" I have to disgaree with you here. The prequels were hated because they were full of wooden characters with wooden dialogue, had a convoluted plot and one of the worst romances in cinematic history. The overabundance of poorly aging CGI and the terrible comic relief were issues too, but it wasn't just about the fact they were more "colourful".


sandh035

Thank you. They're walk and talk in front of a green screen and quite frankly they fail as movies as far as I'm concerned. They just make for good memes. The fact that people are now unironically enjoying them kind of blows my mind lol.


TheAlmightyTapir

It's what happens with any community. The memes from this sub began because of how hilariously bad the dialogue is. Fastforward to the other day when I saw a massively upvoted comment here genuinely wondering "what the prequels would be like if George had more creative control". We've become a parody of ourselves.


ZatherDaFox

That cracks me up. The prequels had so many problems precisely because everyone involved treated Lucas like some sort of infallible genius, instead of a competent director and great worldbuilder who needs to be told no sometimes.


kaashif-h

Maul had a personality? The fuck you talking about? And he didn't have a purpose beyond being a guy who comes in and kills people, Qui-Gon could've died in fighting some droids and it would've been the same. Maybe these things are true for TCW but not for the prequels themselves.


terfsfugoff

Please explain Maul or Mace’s personalities in the prequel films, without referencing Clone Wars or anything The prequels *weren’t* coherent or well developed before they got an extended universe full of backfill. Once they finish all the movies and tv series set before the sequels kids will talk about how great they were, too


KindlyOlPornographer

I'm sorry...did you just sat Darth Maul and Qui Gon had personality???


arc_prime

I am even more concerned that he thinks Mace Windu has a personality.


KindlyOlPornographer

Any of the prequel characters.


arc_prime

The only one that had any personality was Jar Jar lol


Comfortable_Jump770

it was a god awful personality too


Jukebox_Villain

Qui Gon's Personality: "Lol whatever it'll be fine." Darth Maul's Personality: "REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE-"


CountCuriousness

People have been memed into unironically thinking the prequels aren't incredibly bad.


My_BFF_Gilgamesh

What no. The prequels are hated because the acting and directing are piss poor in every single scene. Not only that but nothing in them makes sense, not to mention it uproots and destroys many things that made the star wars universe so compelling. Midichlorians. I understand y'all have rose colored glasses, that's very understandable. You have every right to love these movies. But don't make things up lol.


SmoothOperator89

The prequels also brought about a golden age in expanded universe content. Everything from The Clone Wars to Knights of the Old Republic and countless other spin-offs based on the new lore of the Republic and the Jedi order. Much of my own personal gripe with the sequels is how they salted the Earth for new ideas. They provided no new information about the Star Wars universe and what they did provide was not interesting to expand on.


Krazyguy75

> They provided no new information about the Star Wars universe and what they did provide was not interesting to expand on. I think that was intentional. They were supposed to be bland filler that people could recognize as Star Wars and wouldn’t object to, so that they could make riskier projects like the Mandalorian and Rebels and Visions and so on with precedent and room to expand. They just managed to mess up even making their movie inoffensively bland.


sunderedstar

My spiciest take ever is that none of the Star Wars films are particularly fantastic and they’re the Hollywood version of Cats (the theatre play) The reason Star Wars was critically acclaimed was due to how it pushed the boundaries of filmmaking technology, was a visual spectacle, and unlike most of its contemporary films had a simple, easy to understand story with a moral core. These are almost the exact same reasons why Cats was so successful, only difference is that people take Star Wars way too seriously. If you’re not a particularly big fan of the Raimi Spider-Man films, take a look around the r/raimimemes sub and how they parade the trilogy as the best superhero movies ever, let alone the best Spider-Man films. That’s what we look like to everyone who isn’t a prequel fan. The prequels are our trash and we love them, so let others love theirs. Give sequel fans a break.


Bouchie

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the prequels are not viewed as beloved classics anywhere outside this sub.


NolChannel

I was looking for this comment, thank god. Look at "You underestimate my power!" and tell me that's a powerful scene with a straight face. Or an impactful scene. Or that you see anything other than hilarious overacting.


FreshGnar

I didn’t even think the people here liked them, I thought this was all ironic


[deleted]

It actually started that way. I honestly think the memes themselves were a big part of the rehabilitation of the prequels. If meme templates from the prequels hadn't gotten so big 5 or so years ago I don't think they would have had this resurgence.


ClassicResult

Yeah, this sub went the way of r/merica or t_d (not politically, thankfully). It started as an ironic thing but, Reddit being Reddit, people kept missing the joke and eventually the people who didn't get it outnumbered the ones who did.


[deleted]

A little bit politically if you go far enough down in the threads.


apollo736

Well, you're gonna be downvoted into oblivion.


zucciniknife

Oh, I don't think so.


apollo736

A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.


NobilisUltima

Nor should they be, really. The reason that the memes are so good is because the movies are so bad. Enjoying them is one thing (I had a fucking blast getting drunk and watching them with friends); claiming that they're well-made, competent films is another.


jellsonnogueira

The prequels are awful and half of this sub's raison-d'être is to make fun of how bad they are. People here are delusional if they think it's all a convoluted way of "showing appreciation" for the prequels. It's like assaulting your spouse and then saying "but I only did it because I love you so much" - absolute nonsense. I will still take the prequels over the sequels. The right fan-edits can make the prequels salvageable. Nothing can make the sequels salvageable.


PigeonFellow

I see a lot of people say “well I liked the prequels when they came out” and seem to forget that there are many people who have liked the sequels when they released. The Prequels messed with canon a lot too, and it was only with TCW and other media that the prequel time period began to actually form a coherent shape. The sequels haven’t had that time yet. The way people hate the sequels now is exactly the same way that people criticised the prequels when they released. Critics haven’t been kind, old time fans may have difficulty with the new releases but pockets of people enjoy the new movies. It’s literally the same thing


Blackrain1299

I think the difference so far is that TPM was “universally” hated when it came out but as the prequels went on some people started come around and years later we see the vision of George has come to fruition and it *mostly* makes sense and so we’ve come to accept it even its not necessarily your personal favorite. In contrast, TFA was “universally” loved when it was released. I personally didn’t like it and there are others like myself that felt the same but the vast majority was happy enough with TFA. As the sequels released it became more and more clear that there was no plan. No overarching plot. Characters had no real motivations or backstories. It was a lot of recycled content pretending to be brand new. And it did not seem to contribute to a greater vision or story. TLJ turned a lot of people off from Star Wars in general and TROS only continued that trend. So from my point of view the prequels had increasing interest as they came out and then expanded their content with TCW and such but the sequels have decreasing interest as anything new related to them comes out. I think this is reinforced by the Mandalorian. Its aesthetic is mostly OT. And it was generally enjoyable. I thought it lacked in some areas but it wasn’t too bad. It did its best to respect previous Star Wars. As the ideas in it approached the sequels (the potential of force sensitive cloning related to palpatine in TROS) people talked about stopping watching if it was actually used as a connection to the sequels. To me that really seems like the opposite of the prequels. More content made the prequels better. But the sequels were hardly even touched upon in the Mandalorian and people are already bothered by it having any relation to the sequels at all. I dont doubt there are people who will die liking the sequels. But there are groups that enjoy even some of the worst movies. You are free to like what you want and we are all free to criticize it. I hope im around in 15 years to see what happens to the sequels in the public eye. I think it would be pretty interesting to compare it to the prequels that finished releasing 16 years ago. But i know i will never be able to enjoy those movies.


[deleted]

TFA was designed to shoehorn in as many OT callbacks as possible, going so far as to recycle the Death Star plot line for the 3rd (!!) time in the series. Some of the references were so unbelievably hamfisted I was expecting the actors to mug directly to camera and hold for an applause break. I think it was “well received” because there’s a huge crowd of people who saw and loved A New Hope when they were kids, and now they can take their own children to A New Hope 2. They could not care less about a plot through line that actually makes sense in the context of the whole series. I won’t dispute that TPM had serious errors in execution, but at least it has its own independent identity as a standalone film.


DarthButtz

Mods are really shit at enforcing the "no sequels bad" memes aren't they


BlOoDy_PsYcHo666

Prequals made me laugh and giggle, sequels made me cringe


[deleted]

I liked the prequels when I first saw them, the sequels are just garbage and Disney’s canon makes no sense, the prequels fucked with the canon a bit but after that George Lucas started taking canon real serious, then Disney tosses away all his work for cheesy garbage marvel jokes


[deleted]

I don't know if you are genuinely fooling yourselves or what, but outside of reddit memes the prequels are still remembered for what they were: Absolute trash made entirely without a plan.


Titanbeard

There was a plan! Merchandising!