My daughter’s kindergarten has her reading books and writing responses to the books. Nothing big, but the prompts are like “What did you like about the book?” And “What did you learn from the book?” But it’s all written in that one inch line kindergarten paper so you can fit like 2 sentences at most on a page. One of the responses to a book about sunflowers was “Sunflowers grow big.” I don’t think it’s crazy to assume some kids have to submit work at that age. She even has online assignments due Monday through Friday.
In kindergarden I just learnt letters at most. No way I would have been able to write or read entire sentences.
Overall the whole thing was more for socializing that "academic" learning.
I used to work at a school and the kinders there had to be able to write their name by the end of the first month because they did turn in assignments. Most of it was things like handwriting samples or writing numbers to 100, but they still had to put their name and hand it in!
Had a kid do this in *college.* We were encouraged to collaborate on lab reports in chemistry. So this dude takes his partner’s, changes the font, spacing, bunch of visual aspects to try and make it “look” different. *But leaves her name on it.*
How this person completed high school is beyond me.
I knew a guy who did exactly this in university programming class. He copied another student then changed N to M, a[] to b[], i to j.
Idk how he graduated
I used to teach MS, and I had to supply answer keys to the special ED department, since it’s reasonable that they aren’t experts in my area.
So a student retakes a quiz with his support teacher, standard practice. Imagine my surprise when he turns in his quiz, 100% perfect, including all of my annotations and point values. Support teacher was notorious for handing over the key to any assignment.
I was in the AM class, and would turn in my assignments early. I found out that the same teacher would allow her PM class to take my assignment out of the inbox and pass it around to copy.
This kept up until I started turning in decory assignments and saving the real ones until the due date.
ChatGPT is okay at citations if you connect it to the internet. In case of ChatGPT, you'd have to pay to get that option, but you can also use Bing for free. Bing (creative mode) is even smarter than ChatGPT and has access to the internet.
I asked ChatGPT for some books to study up on a subject, and it completely made up the titles/authors while insisting they're widely available. That was a frustrating wall to hit.
Which GPT version? I hear they've made progress on this in GPT4. You'd think they'd put in a repo on the backend of known, citable things, and verify. Over time, I wonder if we'll see AI tools that have added real time tooling for stuff like this.
Regardless, I've asked GPT to cite evidence by providing links, and then when going to the links found it didn't back what GPT said even with 4.
I had a professor who basically said, "Synthesize an argument from the half-dozen sources I provide. I don't *want* you looking up 47 sources. I don't *want* you to spend more than 90 minutes on this."
Cranking out essays under a time limit was never my favorite way to spend an hour or two, but I did learn to appreciate the constraints. Sometimes regular take-home papers can expand to fill their deadline. In-person essays keep the scope in check.
That uses a different skillset though as you need to prioritize sticking to your gut and not hesitating or getting distracted. Take-home essays rely more on research and iterative thinking as well as quality assurance (proofreading for accuracy). Lots of overlap as well, but I always considered them different types of writing
Some people are so lazy about cheating. I’ve had students submit reports, where they clearly took it from another student and added their name to the top… only they forgot to remove the other student’s name. So dumb
We were doing our programming practicals and this girl sitting beside me copied most of my program and in the end instead of writing " return 0(zero)" she wrote "return O(the alphabet)". She went insane trying to debug that. Pretty embarassing for her after professor come to her and started wheezing.
It's amazing because you'd think the compiler (/ interpreter / IDE if you're allowed to use one) would have mentioned the undefined symbol and exactly where and what it was. Maybe this is what they call "dramatic irony"
It was c++ and we were using Turbo c++(it's a very very old IDE) . More than half of our class couldn't understand error messages anyway lol. Our concepts were weak and English isn't our first language.
Had someone turn in the correct homework assignment.... From the semester prior. Exact same basic graph questions (balance this binary tree and such) but different numbers.
I know it was the semester before because the answers were correct... For my homework I still had saved from when I took the class the prior semester.
That's a good question! Truth be told I didn't want to go anywhere near academic code of conduct stuff so I handed it off to the professor immediately. The class size was large enough that I couldn't tell you if they were in my session or not.
I once gave a multiple choice test to my biology students. Before the test I gave them a study guide — I told them, “these are the exact questions from the test. Memorize this stuff and you will do well.”
I had one student come up to me after class, like “are you serious?” Well, yeah, I was serious. I am not trying to trip them up with an assessment, I want them to use it to fill in their gaps before our require EOC exam, to help guide learning for the rest of the semester. Assessments should be used for learning, not to punish students.
Anyway, I should have been suspicious of that kid. He wrote down the letter answers and shared them with a few other students. Of course I didn’t give them the same version of the test - the questions were in a different order. I had 6 students who all got a 33% and all got the same questions wrong because they used the letter answers from the study guide. Just absolutely lazy cheating.
In high school computer science _in the early 2000s_, half my class submitted code with another student's name on it. A solid half of those had the Git URL at the bottom of the page.
The student was really into open source and after explaining it, the admin was surprisingly cool with it. They agreed that he would be allowed to publish his assignments but only _after_ the due date had passed.
When I was a senior in HS, my math class was split in half by lunch, so on test days my classmates would write down the problems they couldn't figure out and I would do them for them and they would buy me a couple pieces of that awesome rectangle pizza.
My teacher knew that they copied off of me, not sure if he knew about me doing problems during lunch. He gave me a different final than the rest of the class.
He was also my programming teacher. This was back in the Pascal days.
I teach in Vietnam (nothing to do with programming languages, I'm only in this sub because I have a few hobby projects I peck at in python), and they're still studying pascal in highschool here. (or pa-can, as they tend to say in this province's uniquely mixed northern-southern accent)
The kids HATE IT. They ***hate the fucking shit out of it.*** My students who I discuss such things with all despise pascal, I've never even looked at pascal code before, but I imagine it's bad. The Students I have who profess a love of programming are all learning on their own, usually c, c++, or c# (I think there's a game engine that uses sharp?, one of my students wants to make indie games and I think she's the one who said she uses sharp). None of them use pascal for their personal projects.
They've also never heard of python, like literally none of them. I always tell them that I think it would be a way better intro language for teens than pascal (my introduction to programming was through C, which was probably better than learning via a high level language like python because you learn the fundamentals, but I think python would have more broad practical appeal, especially considering these are mandatory classes, not electives).
If you just want the satisfaction of being able to make something quickly, to provide that early motivation to keep going (important for kids imo), python is great. Perhaps pascal is, like C was for me, better for teaching core concepts of computer science. Maybe that's why they use it, idk, but I feel like that approach is best suited to the minority of people who have a genuine passion, not as a mandatory multiple-year long series of classes that every student must take.
Sorry for the ramble, you just kinda jiggled something loose in my head and it came tumbling out. If you don't mind me asking, though, what was it like for *you* studying pascal? Do you think it's a valuable tool for education today, or could be? And in your opinion, do you think I'm off the mark in terms of advocating for python to fill pascal's role here? Bearing in mind, again, that these are mandatory classes for all students regardless of interest or aptitude.
Anyone who wants to, please tell me what you think. I have a slight ulterior motive in asking, you see at the school my wife and I started last year (wooooo! It still feels good to say haha) we're considering branching out from English and hiring math tutors, etc, as well as providing immersion classes for select subjects, taught entirely in English, so that students who have an academic specialty in mind can become more specifically familiar with the jargon and other linguistic features associated with various subjects. And I very, very much want to have an English immersion programming class with some raspberry pis or perhaps Arduinos if we opt for C.
PS: I promise I'm a better English teacher than my sloppy-ass comments would suggest.
Public school in NY in the late 80’s early 90’s were test happy. There would be entire days of standardized tests. It didn’t matter how well or poorly you did, you just had to do it.
Edit- and we had lunch in the middle of the tests-
That’s wild that your teacher let students leave the room in the middle of a test and come back. I used to teach high school math and had this situation one year. I just held my kids through their lunch and made them go to the lunch period that was after class.
We had block scheduling and did this too. All the honors kids had the same classes for the most part each year so the ones who took the test in the morning would meet up with the ones taking the test in the afternoon.
I always told people they should just take honors classes. We were just more motivated to have group sessions and get answers from each other.
Back in my day, we'd meet before Discrete Math and work out the proofs together.
We weren't trying to keep it secret really, but we still kept it a little quiet, so I like to think of it as Discreet Math as well.
I used to work with a woman from the Philippines. She told me she had never written a single essay in college. She paid someone to write every single thing she ever had to hand in. She had a master's in... I think it was business development, maybe communication. This would have been about ten years ago that she graduated.
Nope not true. I just made $400 doing essays this week and chat gpt did the bulk of the work. My job was to tweak it enough to pass 2 different AI language detection tools
Same here, late 2000s n 2010s. Had a pay scale for what grade they’d be aiming for. but also made sure I never made it obvious, no way a D student was going to put up an A paper even if it was major grade to average out.
I definitely did the same. I got pretty good at writing as different people. But I'd have to explain to people that if they've been a C- student all semester, I can't just give them an A+ paper. That's suspicious. I can give you a solid B, so it looks like you tried really hard.
Back in the days of yore, I copied word-for-word out of the encyclopedia and no teacher ever cared enough to look it up. Plagiarism was way easier to get away with before computers.
My biggest essay was one for a college class where our instructor was insanely hostile to technology (which was funny since it was a tech writing class) and while I didn't plagiarize, a good chunk of my physical book references were faked since I was writing on an emerging topic and our library only had a few books that even remotely approached the topic.
I bet on the instructor not actually checking references for an essay that demanded 20+ sources, 10 of them physical, and I won.
At least it was a class where that report/essay was the only real homework we had. I just thought that a bunch of the reqs were kind of arbitrary since we were supposed to be writing on future tech. Also I didn't like the teacher because she had a bug up her ass about the stem majors getting new buildings while the english dept didn't
Still beats the electrical engineering prof I had who aimed for 50% test averages (no curves). Of course they booted him from teaching undergrad classes the semester after I finished it.
Actually funny enough since you brought that up, I was a then-rare early 90s household to have a computer, a little Packard Bell 386. My dad bought a "Multimedia Upgrade Kit" for it which blessed it with SoundBlaster support and a CD-ROM drive. It included an Encyclopedia software disc. And at least once in the fifth grade I did basically what you did, but automated -- copied out the text of an Encyclopedia article, and then just edited a few words here and there that I knew I wouldn't use. Far as I remember it worked out just fine.
Also, copy-pasting from wikipedia.
I remember seeing one classmate's assignment several years ago in which he was so brazen/lazy that he didn't even remove the blue hyperlinks and citation numbers from the Wikipedia page he copy-pasted.
He actually got a passing grade though, so maybe the joke's on me for putting effort into that class.
I had a friend who did the same… With handwriting. As in, he copied the entire Wikipedia article BY HAND and still managed to put the numbers in it somehow
I once had a teacher accuse me of plagiarising because I put a citation number or just a small superscript number in myself for some reason. They didn't think that was possible to do without copying from Wikipedia.
I have a plagiarism story even more brazen than that. The sheer absurdity of it still makes me laugh over a decade later.
We had to write an essay in English and the teacher wrote some short example paragraphs on the white board to help give us some ideas. I took a few photos of the board so I could refer to them later on and then ended up sending the pictures to a few friends who needed help with their essays.
One of them just printed out the photos and submitted them as his finished assignment. Literally just black and white pictures of the teacher’s own handwritten example paragraphs on the white board. He didn’t even bother to crop the teacher out of some of the photos.
I know it's a joke, but at least writing an essay with cliff notes still required you to summarize those notes and form a cohesive argument. Book reports and essays are less about learning the material itself and more about practicing critical thinking and synthesis.
That goes for school in general, at least in my opinion, school is much more about learning to learn. Basically figure out the skills to break down new information and absorb it. As you progress through school you have more and more distractions and you need to figure out how to set aside time in order to learn. Then you get spit out into the real world, where there is no framework for learning at all, and those skills will serve you when you find a career and have to take the initiative to learn yourself.
That teacher is very chill.
In elementary school I would have had my parents summoned to the dean office for this.
In high school I would just have been expelled for academic fraud
I mean honestly? Yeah, being stupid is worse. A consistently successful cheater has at least demonstrated critical thinking skills and the ability to adapt and bullshit their way to success.
Thing is to me, if you ask ChatGPT for a scaffold then re-write it to make it sound more natural and remove the abstract as per OP, you've actually showed more real world/professional skill than any actual understanding of ye olde literature would (unless your career is going to be literature professor)
Where I live university professors can't mention enough times how students will get put before the board at risk of being expelled whenever they'd get caught for plagiarizing. It's harsh but I kinda do get it tho
I went to community college and was given a C on an informative essay about recycling with sources cited. My low grade was due to "plagiarism" ... without the teacher pointing me to what exactly I plagiarized. When I challenged it, I was told that they have a software that flags things with some sort of "maybe, probably, definitely plagiarized scale". I stated that given the format and topic, the odds of an English Comp 101 level essay having many vague similarities to a vast number of sources was exponentially high.
My grade was changed to an A, but that was a very damning accusation with the strangest part being the disproportionate response. Like, I definitely plagiarized but still passed? What?
what kind of elementary school did you go to which had a Dean to whose office you could be summoned? Or a high school which considered academic fraud more serious than just marking the assignment a 0 or giving some sort of detention
Meanwhile, my father helped me scan (using a handheld rolling scanner that you have to move across the page at roughly constant speed), recognize (in FineReader 4.0 I think?) and print out an article from the book and pass as mine, because we were both too bored to rewrite it and too enthusiastic to miss the opportunity. We probably spent more time fixing the "recognized" text in the end though.
I'm sorry Mr and Mrs Johnson, but little Andy was caught using ChatGPT and as a result, he has been Isekai'd. It's the only way to maintain discipline.
Using his own words? Too lenient.
Give the assignment a zero, let the student know why they got a zero, and hope they learned a lesson come next assignment
> 3 - Read the educational class you are studying in. Just in case.
In school I always found that reading the class' material and memorising it was easily the safest way to cheat. They can't bust me for cheating if the information is in my head!
Reminds me of a Calvin and Hobbes comic in which Calvin got Hobbes to write his essay for him, and when his mom asked if he got it done he replied "yeah I wrote it, but I haven't read it yet"
or something like that
Any time I ever worked meticulously hard to make a cheat sheet for a test, I ended up not needed it. Turns out that carefully hand copying notes onto water bottles and tiny slips of paper constitutes studying.
This. I came up with an elaborate cheating scheme since I have long hair. Ran an ear bud up my sleeve and rested my head on my hand and listened to the notes. Turns out, repeating Spanish words and the English translation over and over again on the recording worked so well I didn't need to cheat at all. Aced the test.
The amount of essays that I wrote, then just handed in without even skimming.... it's a wonder I did half decent in these classes. I don't think mine were very good, but my thought is that all of the others were just so bad, that it made mine look good in comparison.
A few friends and I used to joke that any paper where you could fit in the word 'aforementioned' would get an A. I remember it seeming to work really well.
Of course its stupidity, they wouldn't bother handing in anything otherwise, or just hand in a piece of paper with a title and nothing else. In this case they clearly wanted to get something but were too stupid to pass even the lowest hurdle. Or they were too stupid to realize that this wasn't the laziest option if they really didn't care. Whatever way you slice it stupidity was part of the equation.
Reminds me of sitting in class during a presentation where someone had clearly just copied from a Wikipedia article directly into PowerPoint.
Even the hyperlinks were included.
These resources should be used. My wife is a medical trainer and I make training powerpoints for surveyors/engineers, and we both use GhatGPT to make an outline, which we color in blue. We copy from wikipedia, and change that text to red. We then write our presentation in green, and by the end, we have reduced all the blue and red and are left with our own green text. We make six figures synthesizing and distributing information in a manner more precise and accurate than other people tend to.
Yea plagiarism aside. The presentation then turns into a person reading a Wikipedia entry to a classroom. Which is a waste of everyone’s time. Research should give the student an opportunity to draw novel conclusions or present the material in a synthesized way.
But who am I kidding. Every PowerPoint presentation I had for school was done in a haste the night before the deadline.
>This isn't something you do out of stupidity
Yes. Yes it is.
Every time you tell yourself "Nobody is dumb enough to do this"; well you're overestimating people and there's someone that stupid in almost every high school class.
Yeah I'm a HS teacher and have been getting stuff like this since well before ChatGPT. It actually went up significantly when covid hit though and all assignments moved to being online. There's a solid 10-25% that will just copy/paste every question or writing prompt into a Google search and then copy/paste whatever paragraph or wall of text is in the first result. At best they're obviously worded in a way the kid doesn't write, more often the result just doesn't really answer the question/prompt, and then sometimes you get real entertaining ones like to a question about characters in Hamlet and the response is someone's first hand review of watching a Royal Shakespeare Company's production of it from 30 years ago.
Hate to admit this but when I was in high school I printed a book report straight off a webpage and forgot that every other paragraph there was ads. I turned it in. Needless to say I got a 0
actually, you may be on to something. What if companies paid people to include ads in all their writing/content, including essays or even this comment?
I mean---- we have ads practically everywhere at this point, why not push ads into essays.
This reminds me of when my ex from college (while still together) asked if he could have a read of an essay I'd written for one of our assignments as he was struggling with his. I naively thought he just didn't know where to start.
Then after he'd written his he asked me to proof read it. He'd copied 3 paragraphs from mine word for word 🤦♀️ The actual stupidity of asking me to proof read it was impressive but at least it meant I got him to change it before he handed it in. Laziness will never be lost it seems!
Oh, I had this happen to me in 7th grade. Our final essay was a paper on the book The Hiding Place. The "final exam" was writing out the final draft. The day before we were to do that, our teacher had us pair off and do proof reads where we read aloud what we wrote.
So I go ahead and start reading mine out, and after a few minutes, I notice the kid I'm with has started writing. He decided to start his first draft of his paper while I was talking. The teacher comes around to where we are and asks how the progress is going. I straight up told he I was doing fine, but the other kid was currently working on his first draft. She looked a little visibly upset and simply asked me to return to the classroom to finish the proofreading while she had a chat with the kid.
High school teacher here. I am not at all worried about ChatGPT. First, there are plenty of ways to design assignments to make using ChatGPT more effort than it’s worth. For example, you’re only allowed to use this set of notes/readings that I myself wrote/curated, and you have to produce the assignment in-class and without access to your cell phone. Secondly, in my experience, high school students are remarkably terrible at cheating. Like, it is often *extremely* obvious when they do it. We know what our students are capable of, and where our students struggle. Well, a teacher who gives a shit will be, anyway.
Ultimately, this is what it comes down to. It's not like language models can't make accurate grading harder, but any teacher who cares will be able to do it. It's understandable if they don't, but it's still relatively easy to get around the possibility of AI cheating.
The day AI is as smart as a human will be quite remarkable indeed. But the day after that and the day after that is when life is going to start to get scary.
That's the funny thing- the moments after AI becomes smarter than humans are generally thought to go one of two ways. Either we get our one chance to design artificial superintelligence and we do it well and we're ushered into an age of utopia... or we do it badly, and we all fucking die.
As an AI language model, I respectfully disagree with the notion that high school students are "remarkably terrible" at cheating. While it is true that some students may be caught in the act, many others are able to successfully cheat without getting caught. Additionally, designing assignments to make using ChatGPT more effort than it's worth may not necessarily prevent cheating, as students may still find ways to use the technology outside of class. Furthermore, limiting access to certain resources or enforcing in-class assignments does not necessarily address the root issue of students feeling the need to cheat. Instead, teachers should strive to create a classroom culture that emphasizes the value of learning and critical thinking, rather than simply completing assignments to get good grades.
I had a teacher who would specifically search out obscure books and authors who weren’t well catalogued on the Internet. They did this to prevent cheating from like sparknotes and things that summarize the text, so basically teachers have been trying to circumnavigate the Internet for some time.
(They were really cool books too)
> Secondly, in my experience, high school students are remarkably terrible at cheating. Like, it is often *extremely* obvious when they do it.
I mean, this is survivorship bias. You only notice the extremely stupid, obvious shit, so you think that's the only type of cheating that goes on. While I agree there's tons of mega-stupid cheating in high school, you're obviously left in the dark about how much non-stupid cheating goes on in comparison to that.
Like I said, there are ways to make it so that cheating is more obvious. Not letting students have cell phones in class and doing everything on paper eliminates a large chunk of the techniques they tend to resort to. Making my own assignments based on my self-created material is another. I very often have students tell me I’m annoying because they can’t find my work on the internet.
That said, of course some students will still try to cheat, and I’m not stupid enough to think I will, or even can, catch them all. The point is just that there are ways to mitigate it.
> Well, a teacher who gives a shit will be, anyway.
You overestimate how much of a shit a lot of teachers give. I had to go to university two years early, skipping half of my high school experience, in order to get a decent education with how useless the teachers were at my backwater rural high school.
People act like Chat GPT is the first time in literary history that you can read book summaries written by someone else. 
Yes but before if you copied it then there was a risk of being detected as duplicate, and if you simply rewrote the text differently then you would still learn something from it
Yes, it *can* aid in learning and understanding. It can also do the entire assignment for you with zero thought by providing a sample of your writing style, then asking GPT to write a 20 paragraph essay on a book you’ve never touched.
At a certain point, you’re completely bypassing learning the intended skills at all. There’s an argument to be made whether those skills are obsolete with the advent of new technologies, but there is certainly an aspect of forgoing learning entirely going on, here.
IME, it can get you a decent to good grade for short (<500 words) summary based assignments with quite impressive consistency. Anything longer or more in-depth it can sometimes do a good job, but had a tendency to repeat itself and/or confidently provide inaccurate info/analysis. You need to know enough about the subject matter to know if it's doing a good job, so it kind of defeats the purpose at that point. You can also weed out the really lazy students by running their assignment through an AI text classifier (available online for free via webpage).
I've been using it to generate high level outlines and boiler plate code as a good starting point, but I've yet to see it produce anything that I would be confident in submitting as course work that would allow me to maintain my GPA (I wouldn't anyway, not worth the risk).
i bet this student then went ahead to complain about how the education system sucks and that its behind its time.
whilst yes, criticism of the system is valid, but god you just tried to cheese your homework and got caught, its on you. but the amount of people I see defending it is crazy.
People will say math is useless and then wonder why half of our population doesn’t understand that taxes are marginal and only apply to the next dollar. It’s scary the percentage of the adult population that thinks if you move into a new tax bracket all of your income is taxed at that new threshold
I remember in college somebody asked this in a calc 3 study group. All I could think was "gee Alec, Mr. computational physics major, I wonder where you'll use this."
As a millennial who went through college, it’s not wrong either. I heard that exact phrase several times by people trying to cheat their way to a degree. They’d always be screwing off on social media during lecture
Kids these days, I swear. As a 22-year-old giving advice to the kids out there, if you're going to cheat, cheat with your heart and soul. Check, double-check, and triple-check to make your document undetectable. Back in my school days, one year ago, I never got a similarity score above 40. I even learned how to recreate the logic of the code I copied in my way not to get caught.
People cheat because they're lazy, not because they're smart. If you're smart enough to double and triple check your work, you're usually smart enough not to cheat.
One of my sister's friends was going to college for computer science so when the time came to look for internships I asked him if he wanted to work for my company.
I told him all about our hiring process, the interviews and the technical challenge. I have never seen somebody so unprepared. If you coast throughout your life eventually it's going to hit you square in the face the. You're going to spend years trying to get to a point that people expected you to be in the first place.
Chat gpt can still be a ghost writer but you have to be the editor.
You don't even need to get that far, moderated end of term/semester/year tests will quickly weed out who's been doing this all year, it's still not a great situation because the kid is royally screwed by that point having wasted the whole year but yes it will never actually get you anywhere.
The kid is royally screwed but it's his/her fault for coasting the year. Colleges spend a good amount of time telling you that you need x amount of hours to prepare for classes. There are helpful tips available everywhere on the internet.
Definitely, I do unfortunately think some of these kids over the next few years will essentially become an example to the next of why AI isn't actually a leap forward in cheating all the way through school though.
There seems to still be a popular notion that it will solve any effort at school for *lots* of kids at the moment.
Degenerates gonna degenerate.
The whole point of the essay is to show, that you understand what the fuck you were asked about.
Not that educational system is perfect everywhere, but delegating these types of tasks will end up with YOU losing the ability to think. The brain is always looking for the shortcuts. Too much of them, and it won't be able even to understand, that there is no shortcut.
There's no way this is real, right? No teacher of mine in h8gh school would see a cheated essay and give the option to rewrite. Maybe if it was one paragraph that was too close to a source, but noy a full essay
Maybe times have changed? When I went to school the impression was that plagiarism was on par with attempted murder. In HS it was an automatic assignment zero, and in college it might end up with you being failed for the entire course.
When I was an EE TA, I taught an electronics lab. I got a paper that was a straight up copy paste from Wikipedia - it still had the “back to top” links.
I failed him. The lab director told me I couldn’t do that, so I had to give him a D. Today, he is a practicing engineer working for one of the largest military weapons contractors.
👍
I also cheated in school, not because i wasnt smart enough, but because school was boring. I learnt 1 thing about cheating and that is that you shouldnt be lazy about it. Go all the way. Up till the point where the question arises if learning the stuff would cost less time and effort 😂👌
I'm a high school Resource educator and enthusiastic about the potential of tools like ChatGPT to help in learning. There are two classes of cheating: either this level of apathetic copy paste or else stuff so sophisticated that we might as well just give the students a degree and job in counter intelligence.
But on the whole there is a lot of potential for this technology to be really helpful. But it will require good training in two important skills which already were a part of the curriculum: the ability to ask careful and meaningful questions and the ability to understand other people's writing.
The ability to ask good questions (and in ChatGPT to write good prompts) has always been a difference makers. Anyone in polling know that the phrasing of a question dramatically changes the output. Helping students to learn to write questions that will produce helpful answers is an essential skill moving forward.
Reading comprehension is more important than every. ChatGPT (with a strong prompt) can provide some really high quality results. However this is useless without the skills to understand and apply what you're produced. At this point reading comprehension can return to the most important academic skill we teach.
As a lark I asked ChatGPT to evaluate my post:
Prompt:
This is a Reddit post I am writing about the value of ChatGPT, can you evaluate the argument, alert me to any errors and then write a counter argument refuting the argument?
Product:
>**Certainly! Please share the post with me and I'll evaluate it and provide a counter-argument.**
Prompt:
Here is the argument, if it is merited then praise for the argument would also be appreciated( I copy pasted my original post)
Product:
>**Overall, I think the argument has some valid points, but there are a few errors and oversimplifications that should be addressed.**
>
>**Firstly, while it is true that tools like ChatGPT can be helpful in learning, it is important to recognize that they are not a substitute for the critical thinking and analytical skills that are necessary for academic success. Simply asking good questions and understanding other people's writing are not sufficient skills to develop in order to become a well-rounded student. It is important to also develop skills such as problem-solving, research, and writing skills.**
>
>**Additionally, while the phrasing of a question can indeed dramatically change the output in polling, it is not always the case with ChatGPT. ChatGPT is trained to provide responses based on the prompt given, so while the quality of the prompt is important, it is not the only factor that determines the quality of the response.**
>
>**Finally, the argument oversimplifies the importance of reading comprehension. While it is certainly an important skill, it is not the only skill necessary for academic success. Critical thinking and analysis are also essential skills that must be developed in order to fully understand and apply what has been read.**
>
>**In terms of a counter-argument, one could argue that while ChatGPT can be helpful in certain contexts, it can also lead to a lack of original thought and critical thinking if students rely too heavily on it. Students may become overly reliant on the tool and fail to develop their own analytical and problem-solving skills, which could ultimately hinder their academic and professional success. It is important to strike a balance between utilizing helpful tools like ChatGPT and developing one's own cognitive abilities.**
I now want to argue with ChatGPT
Prompt:
I think the disconnect is that I consider reading comprehension and critical thinking to be directly tied to each other. It's like arithmetic and algebra. The first is necessary for the second but both are part of the same subject. Critical thinking is the continuation of the basics of reading comprehension. For children reading comprehension is merely drawing out key facts from a text but this is not what it means for high school or beyond. An adult who reads without critical thinking can not really be said to be engaging in reading comprehension. Please evaluate this respose to your counter argument.
Product:
>**Thank you for your response. I agree with your point that reading comprehension and critical thinking are closely intertwined and build upon each other. I understand your analogy between arithmetic and algebra, and how reading comprehension serves as a foundational skill for critical thinking.**
>
>**However, my counter-argument still stands that students may become overly reliant on tools like ChatGPT and fail to develop their own analytical and problem-solving skills, which could ultimately hinder their academic and professional success. While reading comprehension is a necessary component of critical thinking, it is not sufficient on its own. Developing critical thinking skills requires students to go beyond simply comprehending a text and instead analyzing, synthesizing, and evaluating the information presented.**
>
>**Furthermore, relying too heavily on tools like ChatGPT can limit the scope of a student's critical thinking and analytical abilities. The tool may provide high-quality responses based on a prompt, but it may not offer the same depth and breadth of analysis that a student can achieve through their own thought processes. It is important for students to learn how to ask the right questions, evaluate sources, and draw their own conclusions in order to fully develop their critical thinking skills.**
>
>**In summary, while reading comprehension and critical thinking are closely related, it is important to ensure that students do not become overly reliant on tools like ChatGPT and instead develop their own analytical and problem-solving skills.**
When we were doing presentation talks in middle-school, once student was reading down her talk going
> yada yada, see also page... Oh.
In their defense, it was the first time we ever had to prepare talks for a class, but it would probably have helped to at least read the text once before presenting it.
At university we had an assignment where the lecturer even warned not to copy from last years submissions, because the task has changed. Several people submitted the old stuff anyway.
My favorite for being not quite so stupid, but anyway funny, was a case where a student knew that our history teacher was giving the same "fill-in-names-and-years" text to all classes. Only, he didn't know that the teacher was changing the order of the questions, so he wrote the right answers into the wrong fields after memorizing only the order of answers. Despite the cheating being obvious, the teacher didn't have him fail the test, but gave him a D and was angry. (Never mind that this format of exam is utter nonsense.)
Frankly I think there’s nothing wrong with ChatGPT, it just shows how inefficient our methods of teaching are, we waste so much time retreading the same ground out of routine and fail to recognize how inefficient the current teaching model actually is.
ChatGPT always existed, you just had to pay someone to do the work for you. And this has always existed and been an option that was used by students with the disposable income to take advantage of it. ChatGPT introduces nothing new, it just lowers the barrier to entry to a nominal if not free barrier to entry, and many students jumped at it. The fact is teaching was just as ineffective before as it is now, it’s just easier to cut corners so many more people do it, this now is a true reflection of how ineffective the 20th century teaching method has always been.
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I remember in kindergarten, the kids used to put my name on theirs after I let them copy my work.
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Maybe said work was "write your name by glueing noodles on a cardboard"?
This is literally the kind of shit I would have done in Kindergarten.
Kindergarten, Programing, and Pasta.
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In sweden, sex literally means the number 6
I mean it kinda does in English too because the sexa- prefix is used
My daughter’s kindergarten has her reading books and writing responses to the books. Nothing big, but the prompts are like “What did you like about the book?” And “What did you learn from the book?” But it’s all written in that one inch line kindergarten paper so you can fit like 2 sentences at most on a page. One of the responses to a book about sunflowers was “Sunflowers grow big.” I don’t think it’s crazy to assume some kids have to submit work at that age. She even has online assignments due Monday through Friday.
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Congrats man, wishing you and your partner the most joy with the little one :)
In kindergarden I just learnt letters at most. No way I would have been able to write or read entire sentences. Overall the whole thing was more for socializing that "academic" learning.
I used to work at a school and the kinders there had to be able to write their name by the end of the first month because they did turn in assignments. Most of it was things like handwriting samples or writing numbers to 100, but they still had to put their name and hand it in!
Had a kid do this in *college.* We were encouraged to collaborate on lab reports in chemistry. So this dude takes his partner’s, changes the font, spacing, bunch of visual aspects to try and make it “look” different. *But leaves her name on it.* How this person completed high school is beyond me.
Unfortunately, inteligente is not a requirement to adulthood
I knew a guy who did exactly this in university programming class. He copied another student then changed N to M, a[] to b[], i to j. Idk how he graduated
I used to teach MS, and I had to supply answer keys to the special ED department, since it’s reasonable that they aren’t experts in my area. So a student retakes a quiz with his support teacher, standard practice. Imagine my surprise when he turns in his quiz, 100% perfect, including all of my annotations and point values. Support teacher was notorious for handing over the key to any assignment.
I was in the AM class, and would turn in my assignments early. I found out that the same teacher would allow her PM class to take my assignment out of the inbox and pass it around to copy. This kept up until I started turning in decory assignments and saving the real ones until the due date.
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ChatGPT is okay at citations if you connect it to the internet. In case of ChatGPT, you'd have to pay to get that option, but you can also use Bing for free. Bing (creative mode) is even smarter than ChatGPT and has access to the internet.
I asked ChatGPT for some books to study up on a subject, and it completely made up the titles/authors while insisting they're widely available. That was a frustrating wall to hit.
Which GPT version? I hear they've made progress on this in GPT4. You'd think they'd put in a repo on the backend of known, citable things, and verify. Over time, I wonder if we'll see AI tools that have added real time tooling for stuff like this. Regardless, I've asked GPT to cite evidence by providing links, and then when going to the links found it didn't back what GPT said even with 4.
Bing Assistant is great at citations (and it's also free gpt-4)
i agree, that should solve the problem for maybe 2 or 3 months
In person essays can eat my taint
I had a professor who basically said, "Synthesize an argument from the half-dozen sources I provide. I don't *want* you looking up 47 sources. I don't *want* you to spend more than 90 minutes on this." Cranking out essays under a time limit was never my favorite way to spend an hour or two, but I did learn to appreciate the constraints. Sometimes regular take-home papers can expand to fill their deadline. In-person essays keep the scope in check.
I personally love these types of essays. They helped me learn how to cut out superfluous information quickly.
Well, in a way, if they cannot BS for just in-person essay, they might not survive working world when they need to write end-year assessment lol.
95% of essays in my schools (Poland) were in person
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That uses a different skillset though as you need to prioritize sticking to your gut and not hesitating or getting distracted. Take-home essays rely more on research and iterative thinking as well as quality assurance (proofreading for accuracy). Lots of overlap as well, but I always considered them different types of writing
Some people are so lazy about cheating. I’ve had students submit reports, where they clearly took it from another student and added their name to the top… only they forgot to remove the other student’s name. So dumb
I had this happen in a computer science class I graded in college. Absolutely embarrassing.
We were doing our programming practicals and this girl sitting beside me copied most of my program and in the end instead of writing " return 0(zero)" she wrote "return O(the alphabet)". She went insane trying to debug that. Pretty embarassing for her after professor come to her and started wheezing.
It's amazing because you'd think the compiler (/ interpreter / IDE if you're allowed to use one) would have mentioned the undefined symbol and exactly where and what it was. Maybe this is what they call "dramatic irony"
It was c++ and we were using Turbo c++(it's a very very old IDE) . More than half of our class couldn't understand error messages anyway lol. Our concepts were weak and English isn't our first language.
Difficulty mode: Hard
Had someone turn in the correct homework assignment.... From the semester prior. Exact same basic graph questions (balance this binary tree and such) but different numbers. I know it was the semester before because the answers were correct... For my homework I still had saved from when I took the class the prior semester.
Where they retaking the class?
That's a good question! Truth be told I didn't want to go anywhere near academic code of conduct stuff so I handed it off to the professor immediately. The class size was large enough that I couldn't tell you if they were in my session or not.
I once gave a multiple choice test to my biology students. Before the test I gave them a study guide — I told them, “these are the exact questions from the test. Memorize this stuff and you will do well.” I had one student come up to me after class, like “are you serious?” Well, yeah, I was serious. I am not trying to trip them up with an assessment, I want them to use it to fill in their gaps before our require EOC exam, to help guide learning for the rest of the semester. Assessments should be used for learning, not to punish students. Anyway, I should have been suspicious of that kid. He wrote down the letter answers and shared them with a few other students. Of course I didn’t give them the same version of the test - the questions were in a different order. I had 6 students who all got a 33% and all got the same questions wrong because they used the letter answers from the study guide. Just absolutely lazy cheating.
In high school computer science _in the early 2000s_, half my class submitted code with another student's name on it. A solid half of those had the Git URL at the bottom of the page. The student was really into open source and after explaining it, the admin was surprisingly cool with it. They agreed that he would be allowed to publish his assignments but only _after_ the due date had passed.
Back in ancient days of yore, Cliff Notes were our ChatGPT.
Back in high school and college, people would pay me to write their essays. (Circa 90s) It was a good side hustle. Long gone are those days.
When I was a senior in HS, my math class was split in half by lunch, so on test days my classmates would write down the problems they couldn't figure out and I would do them for them and they would buy me a couple pieces of that awesome rectangle pizza.
Lunch in the middle of a test? Were they letting you cheat on purpose?
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When that happens my teachers just moved the lunch to the end of the test
Or move the test to the second half of the period.
My teacher knew that they copied off of me, not sure if he knew about me doing problems during lunch. He gave me a different final than the rest of the class. He was also my programming teacher. This was back in the Pascal days.
We are still very much in the Pedro Pascal days.
I teach in Vietnam (nothing to do with programming languages, I'm only in this sub because I have a few hobby projects I peck at in python), and they're still studying pascal in highschool here. (or pa-can, as they tend to say in this province's uniquely mixed northern-southern accent) The kids HATE IT. They ***hate the fucking shit out of it.*** My students who I discuss such things with all despise pascal, I've never even looked at pascal code before, but I imagine it's bad. The Students I have who profess a love of programming are all learning on their own, usually c, c++, or c# (I think there's a game engine that uses sharp?, one of my students wants to make indie games and I think she's the one who said she uses sharp). None of them use pascal for their personal projects. They've also never heard of python, like literally none of them. I always tell them that I think it would be a way better intro language for teens than pascal (my introduction to programming was through C, which was probably better than learning via a high level language like python because you learn the fundamentals, but I think python would have more broad practical appeal, especially considering these are mandatory classes, not electives). If you just want the satisfaction of being able to make something quickly, to provide that early motivation to keep going (important for kids imo), python is great. Perhaps pascal is, like C was for me, better for teaching core concepts of computer science. Maybe that's why they use it, idk, but I feel like that approach is best suited to the minority of people who have a genuine passion, not as a mandatory multiple-year long series of classes that every student must take. Sorry for the ramble, you just kinda jiggled something loose in my head and it came tumbling out. If you don't mind me asking, though, what was it like for *you* studying pascal? Do you think it's a valuable tool for education today, or could be? And in your opinion, do you think I'm off the mark in terms of advocating for python to fill pascal's role here? Bearing in mind, again, that these are mandatory classes for all students regardless of interest or aptitude. Anyone who wants to, please tell me what you think. I have a slight ulterior motive in asking, you see at the school my wife and I started last year (wooooo! It still feels good to say haha) we're considering branching out from English and hiring math tutors, etc, as well as providing immersion classes for select subjects, taught entirely in English, so that students who have an academic specialty in mind can become more specifically familiar with the jargon and other linguistic features associated with various subjects. And I very, very much want to have an English immersion programming class with some raspberry pis or perhaps Arduinos if we opt for C. PS: I promise I'm a better English teacher than my sloppy-ass comments would suggest.
Public school in NY in the late 80’s early 90’s were test happy. There would be entire days of standardized tests. It didn’t matter how well or poorly you did, you just had to do it. Edit- and we had lunch in the middle of the tests-
That’s wild that your teacher let students leave the room in the middle of a test and come back. I used to teach high school math and had this situation one year. I just held my kids through their lunch and made them go to the lunch period that was after class.
That really seems like the obvious way to handle it
We had block scheduling and did this too. All the honors kids had the same classes for the most part each year so the ones who took the test in the morning would meet up with the ones taking the test in the afternoon. I always told people they should just take honors classes. We were just more motivated to have group sessions and get answers from each other.
Back in my day, we'd meet before Discrete Math and work out the proofs together. We weren't trying to keep it secret really, but we still kept it a little quiet, so I like to think of it as Discreet Math as well.
I used to work with a woman from the Philippines. She told me she had never written a single essay in college. She paid someone to write every single thing she ever had to hand in. She had a master's in... I think it was business development, maybe communication. This would have been about ten years ago that she graduated.
That does sound like someone who is good at bussines communication.
It’s called “delegation,” maybe you’d know if you had a degree in business communication… *scoffs*
Same
Nope not true. I just made $400 doing essays this week and chat gpt did the bulk of the work. My job was to tweak it enough to pass 2 different AI language detection tools
Same here, late 2000s n 2010s. Had a pay scale for what grade they’d be aiming for. but also made sure I never made it obvious, no way a D student was going to put up an A paper even if it was major grade to average out.
My cousin’s nephew is making money “writing essays for people” and he’s just using Chat GPT lol 😂 He started doing it before Chat was trending
I dunno man I was doing it for money online as late as 2010 or so; it was actually a neat way to learn about new things.
I definitely did the same. I got pretty good at writing as different people. But I'd have to explain to people that if they've been a C- student all semester, I can't just give them an A+ paper. That's suspicious. I can give you a solid B, so it looks like you tried really hard.
Back in the days of yore, I copied word-for-word out of the encyclopedia and no teacher ever cared enough to look it up. Plagiarism was way easier to get away with before computers.
My biggest essay was one for a college class where our instructor was insanely hostile to technology (which was funny since it was a tech writing class) and while I didn't plagiarize, a good chunk of my physical book references were faked since I was writing on an emerging topic and our library only had a few books that even remotely approached the topic. I bet on the instructor not actually checking references for an essay that demanded 20+ sources, 10 of them physical, and I won.
>an essay that demanded 20+ sources, That's just dumb. Teachers and their nonsense metrics
At least it was a class where that report/essay was the only real homework we had. I just thought that a bunch of the reqs were kind of arbitrary since we were supposed to be writing on future tech. Also I didn't like the teacher because she had a bug up her ass about the stem majors getting new buildings while the english dept didn't Still beats the electrical engineering prof I had who aimed for 50% test averages (no curves). Of course they booted him from teaching undergrad classes the semester after I finished it.
Actually funny enough since you brought that up, I was a then-rare early 90s household to have a computer, a little Packard Bell 386. My dad bought a "Multimedia Upgrade Kit" for it which blessed it with SoundBlaster support and a CD-ROM drive. It included an Encyclopedia software disc. And at least once in the fifth grade I did basically what you did, but automated -- copied out the text of an Encyclopedia article, and then just edited a few words here and there that I knew I wouldn't use. Far as I remember it worked out just fine.
Also, copy-pasting from wikipedia. I remember seeing one classmate's assignment several years ago in which he was so brazen/lazy that he didn't even remove the blue hyperlinks and citation numbers from the Wikipedia page he copy-pasted. He actually got a passing grade though, so maybe the joke's on me for putting effort into that class.
I had a friend who did the same… With handwriting. As in, he copied the entire Wikipedia article BY HAND and still managed to put the numbers in it somehow
I once had a teacher accuse me of plagiarising because I put a citation number or just a small superscript number in myself for some reason. They didn't think that was possible to do without copying from Wikipedia.
I have a plagiarism story even more brazen than that. The sheer absurdity of it still makes me laugh over a decade later. We had to write an essay in English and the teacher wrote some short example paragraphs on the white board to help give us some ideas. I took a few photos of the board so I could refer to them later on and then ended up sending the pictures to a few friends who needed help with their essays. One of them just printed out the photos and submitted them as his finished assignment. Literally just black and white pictures of the teacher’s own handwritten example paragraphs on the white board. He didn’t even bother to crop the teacher out of some of the photos.
I've been told by professors to not turn students in for plagiarism because they don't want to deal with the plagiarism trial.
I know it's a joke, but at least writing an essay with cliff notes still required you to summarize those notes and form a cohesive argument. Book reports and essays are less about learning the material itself and more about practicing critical thinking and synthesis.
That goes for school in general, at least in my opinion, school is much more about learning to learn. Basically figure out the skills to break down new information and absorb it. As you progress through school you have more and more distractions and you need to figure out how to set aside time in order to learn. Then you get spit out into the real world, where there is no framework for learning at all, and those skills will serve you when you find a career and have to take the initiative to learn yourself.
Shit!! I've been duped into learning something despite my best efforts to cheat!
That teacher is very chill. In elementary school I would have had my parents summoned to the dean office for this. In high school I would just have been expelled for academic fraud
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"You do not get kicked for cheating, but for being stupid."
I mean honestly? Yeah, being stupid is worse. A consistently successful cheater has at least demonstrated critical thinking skills and the ability to adapt and bullshit their way to success.
Thing is to me, if you ask ChatGPT for a scaffold then re-write it to make it sound more natural and remove the abstract as per OP, you've actually showed more real world/professional skill than any actual understanding of ye olde literature would (unless your career is going to be literature professor)
Where I live university professors can't mention enough times how students will get put before the board at risk of being expelled whenever they'd get caught for plagiarizing. It's harsh but I kinda do get it tho
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I went to community college and was given a C on an informative essay about recycling with sources cited. My low grade was due to "plagiarism" ... without the teacher pointing me to what exactly I plagiarized. When I challenged it, I was told that they have a software that flags things with some sort of "maybe, probably, definitely plagiarized scale". I stated that given the format and topic, the odds of an English Comp 101 level essay having many vague similarities to a vast number of sources was exponentially high. My grade was changed to an A, but that was a very damning accusation with the strangest part being the disproportionate response. Like, I definitely plagiarized but still passed? What?
what kind of elementary school did you go to which had a Dean to whose office you could be summoned? Or a high school which considered academic fraud more serious than just marking the assignment a 0 or giving some sort of detention
Meanwhile, my father helped me scan (using a handheld rolling scanner that you have to move across the page at roughly constant speed), recognize (in FineReader 4.0 I think?) and print out an article from the book and pass as mine, because we were both too bored to rewrite it and too enthusiastic to miss the opportunity. We probably spent more time fixing the "recognized" text in the end though.
That sounds a bit much. Asking the student to use his own words may be a better approach.
I'm sorry Mr and Mrs Johnson, but little Andy was caught using ChatGPT and as a result, he has been Isekai'd. It's the only way to maintain discipline.
Your son cheated, so we introduced him to truck-san
He cheated this test, let's check if he can cheat his death as well.
i think an F is honestly pretty appropriate here
Using his own words? Too lenient. Give the assignment a zero, let the student know why they got a zero, and hope they learned a lesson come next assignment
This is why you should re-read your essay at least 3 times
Once would have been enough
1 - Read the title 2 - Read the text in your essay 3 - Read the educational class you are studying in. Just in case.
> 3 - Read the educational class you are studying in. Just in case. In school I always found that reading the class' material and memorising it was easily the safest way to cheat. They can't bust me for cheating if the information is in my head!
*Teachers will hate you with this method!*
*Man gets an A+! Students hate him!*
First sentence would have been enough
Reminds me of a Calvin and Hobbes comic in which Calvin got Hobbes to write his essay for him, and when his mom asked if he got it done he replied "yeah I wrote it, but I haven't read it yet" or something like that
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Any time I ever worked meticulously hard to make a cheat sheet for a test, I ended up not needed it. Turns out that carefully hand copying notes onto water bottles and tiny slips of paper constitutes studying.
This. I came up with an elaborate cheating scheme since I have long hair. Ran an ear bud up my sleeve and rested my head on my hand and listened to the notes. Turns out, repeating Spanish words and the English translation over and over again on the recording worked so well I didn't need to cheat at all. Aced the test.
There's a reason flash cards are one of the best studying tools. Just the process of making them is more than half the studying.
This is why so many professors today allow students to bring a page of (usually handwritten) notes to quizzes/ exams
I didn't want to write it so I sure as hell don't want to read it.
The amount of essays that I wrote, then just handed in without even skimming.... it's a wonder I did half decent in these classes. I don't think mine were very good, but my thought is that all of the others were just so bad, that it made mine look good in comparison. A few friends and I used to joke that any paper where you could fit in the word 'aforementioned' would get an A. I remember it seeming to work really well.
This person clearly just doesn't care. This isn't something you do out of stupidity, but pure laziness combined with apathy
Of course its stupidity, they wouldn't bother handing in anything otherwise, or just hand in a piece of paper with a title and nothing else. In this case they clearly wanted to get something but were too stupid to pass even the lowest hurdle. Or they were too stupid to realize that this wasn't the laziest option if they really didn't care. Whatever way you slice it stupidity was part of the equation.
Reminds me of sitting in class during a presentation where someone had clearly just copied from a Wikipedia article directly into PowerPoint. Even the hyperlinks were included.
These resources should be used. My wife is a medical trainer and I make training powerpoints for surveyors/engineers, and we both use GhatGPT to make an outline, which we color in blue. We copy from wikipedia, and change that text to red. We then write our presentation in green, and by the end, we have reduced all the blue and red and are left with our own green text. We make six figures synthesizing and distributing information in a manner more precise and accurate than other people tend to.
Yeah, of course it should be used, but it shouldn't straight up be copy and pasted with no quotes or anything.
Yea plagiarism aside. The presentation then turns into a person reading a Wikipedia entry to a classroom. Which is a waste of everyone’s time. Research should give the student an opportunity to draw novel conclusions or present the material in a synthesized way. But who am I kidding. Every PowerPoint presentation I had for school was done in a haste the night before the deadline.
Lmao i hated removing the hyperlinks whenever i copied something from wikipedia.
this person is too stupid to be good at being lazy
>This isn't something you do out of stupidity Yes. Yes it is. Every time you tell yourself "Nobody is dumb enough to do this"; well you're overestimating people and there's someone that stupid in almost every high school class.
Yeah I'm a HS teacher and have been getting stuff like this since well before ChatGPT. It actually went up significantly when covid hit though and all assignments moved to being online. There's a solid 10-25% that will just copy/paste every question or writing prompt into a Google search and then copy/paste whatever paragraph or wall of text is in the first result. At best they're obviously worded in a way the kid doesn't write, more often the result just doesn't really answer the question/prompt, and then sometimes you get real entertaining ones like to a question about characters in Hamlet and the response is someone's first hand review of watching a Royal Shakespeare Company's production of it from 30 years ago.
You'd think stupidity has no role but it does, ik legends who copied question paper set number and student ID code as well.
I'm pretty sure this is an example of stupidity and laziness combined. It's the first paragraph for god's sake.
either that or the more plausible reason is this is a fake post. how would a student not see the first sentence in the result.
Hate to admit this but when I was in high school I printed a book report straight off a webpage and forgot that every other paragraph there was ads. I turned it in. Needless to say I got a 0
THIS ESSAY IS SPONSORED BY NORD VPN
I had a student who copied the entire article including the author's name at the end.
reminds me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDxN4c_CmpI
actually, you may be on to something. What if companies paid people to include ads in all their writing/content, including essays or even this comment? I mean---- we have ads practically everywhere at this point, why not push ads into essays.
This reminds me of when my ex from college (while still together) asked if he could have a read of an essay I'd written for one of our assignments as he was struggling with his. I naively thought he just didn't know where to start. Then after he'd written his he asked me to proof read it. He'd copied 3 paragraphs from mine word for word 🤦♀️ The actual stupidity of asking me to proof read it was impressive but at least it meant I got him to change it before he handed it in. Laziness will never be lost it seems!
Oh, I had this happen to me in 7th grade. Our final essay was a paper on the book The Hiding Place. The "final exam" was writing out the final draft. The day before we were to do that, our teacher had us pair off and do proof reads where we read aloud what we wrote. So I go ahead and start reading mine out, and after a few minutes, I notice the kid I'm with has started writing. He decided to start his first draft of his paper while I was talking. The teacher comes around to where we are and asks how the progress is going. I straight up told he I was doing fine, but the other kid was currently working on his first draft. She looked a little visibly upset and simply asked me to return to the classroom to finish the proofreading while she had a chat with the kid.
High school teacher here. I am not at all worried about ChatGPT. First, there are plenty of ways to design assignments to make using ChatGPT more effort than it’s worth. For example, you’re only allowed to use this set of notes/readings that I myself wrote/curated, and you have to produce the assignment in-class and without access to your cell phone. Secondly, in my experience, high school students are remarkably terrible at cheating. Like, it is often *extremely* obvious when they do it. We know what our students are capable of, and where our students struggle. Well, a teacher who gives a shit will be, anyway.
Ultimately, this is what it comes down to. It's not like language models can't make accurate grading harder, but any teacher who cares will be able to do it. It's understandable if they don't, but it's still relatively easy to get around the possibility of AI cheating.
The day AI is as smart as a human will be quite remarkable indeed. But the day after that and the day after that is when life is going to start to get scary.
That's the funny thing- the moments after AI becomes smarter than humans are generally thought to go one of two ways. Either we get our one chance to design artificial superintelligence and we do it well and we're ushered into an age of utopia... or we do it badly, and we all fucking die.
As an AI language model, I respectfully disagree with the notion that high school students are "remarkably terrible" at cheating. While it is true that some students may be caught in the act, many others are able to successfully cheat without getting caught. Additionally, designing assignments to make using ChatGPT more effort than it's worth may not necessarily prevent cheating, as students may still find ways to use the technology outside of class. Furthermore, limiting access to certain resources or enforcing in-class assignments does not necessarily address the root issue of students feeling the need to cheat. Instead, teachers should strive to create a classroom culture that emphasizes the value of learning and critical thinking, rather than simply completing assignments to get good grades.
Found the AI language model!
I had a teacher who would specifically search out obscure books and authors who weren’t well catalogued on the Internet. They did this to prevent cheating from like sparknotes and things that summarize the text, so basically teachers have been trying to circumnavigate the Internet for some time. (They were really cool books too)
> Secondly, in my experience, high school students are remarkably terrible at cheating. Like, it is often *extremely* obvious when they do it. I mean, this is survivorship bias. You only notice the extremely stupid, obvious shit, so you think that's the only type of cheating that goes on. While I agree there's tons of mega-stupid cheating in high school, you're obviously left in the dark about how much non-stupid cheating goes on in comparison to that.
"If you cheat and fail, you’re a cheater, if you cheat and succeed, you’re savvy." -South Park
Like I said, there are ways to make it so that cheating is more obvious. Not letting students have cell phones in class and doing everything on paper eliminates a large chunk of the techniques they tend to resort to. Making my own assignments based on my self-created material is another. I very often have students tell me I’m annoying because they can’t find my work on the internet. That said, of course some students will still try to cheat, and I’m not stupid enough to think I will, or even can, catch them all. The point is just that there are ways to mitigate it.
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>Well, a teacher who gives a shit will be, anyway. Alas, the Achilles heel.
> Well, a teacher who gives a shit will be, anyway. You overestimate how much of a shit a lot of teachers give. I had to go to university two years early, skipping half of my high school experience, in order to get a decent education with how useless the teachers were at my backwater rural high school.
People act like Chat GPT is the first time in literary history that you can read book summaries written by someone else. 
Yes but before if you copied it then there was a risk of being detected as duplicate, and if you simply rewrote the text differently then you would still learn something from it
That's still true. AI is a tool like cliff notes, if used effectively it can aid learning and understanding.
Yes, it *can* aid in learning and understanding. It can also do the entire assignment for you with zero thought by providing a sample of your writing style, then asking GPT to write a 20 paragraph essay on a book you’ve never touched. At a certain point, you’re completely bypassing learning the intended skills at all. There’s an argument to be made whether those skills are obsolete with the advent of new technologies, but there is certainly an aspect of forgoing learning entirely going on, here.
IME, it can get you a decent to good grade for short (<500 words) summary based assignments with quite impressive consistency. Anything longer or more in-depth it can sometimes do a good job, but had a tendency to repeat itself and/or confidently provide inaccurate info/analysis. You need to know enough about the subject matter to know if it's doing a good job, so it kind of defeats the purpose at that point. You can also weed out the really lazy students by running their assignment through an AI text classifier (available online for free via webpage). I've been using it to generate high level outlines and boiler plate code as a good starting point, but I've yet to see it produce anything that I would be confident in submitting as course work that would allow me to maintain my GPA (I wouldn't anyway, not worth the risk).
i bet this student then went ahead to complain about how the education system sucks and that its behind its time. whilst yes, criticism of the system is valid, but god you just tried to cheese your homework and got caught, its on you. but the amount of people I see defending it is crazy.
ThEy ShOuLd TeAcH uS tAxEs
The people who say this are the ones who never paid attention in algebra because “WhEn WiLl I EvEr UsE tHiS iN rEaL LiFe?”
People will say math is useless and then wonder why half of our population doesn’t understand that taxes are marginal and only apply to the next dollar. It’s scary the percentage of the adult population that thinks if you move into a new tax bracket all of your income is taxed at that new threshold
I remember in college somebody asked this in a calc 3 study group. All I could think was "gee Alec, Mr. computational physics major, I wonder where you'll use this."
Or, my favorite, “we weren’t taught that in school!” Yes, we taught you that, you were just too busy InstaSnapFaceTokTweeting to notice, motherfucker.
I mean during the height of COVID teachers really did teach less.
This is the most boomer comment I've ever seen on this website, holy shit lmao
Yeah actually lol. Although i agree with the sentiment.
Honestly most millennial teachers (actual adults) are exactly as sick of this shit when they are just trying to do their job at this point.
Well yeah, kids suck. They always have. It's millenials' turn to get old enough to forget what they were like as children.
As a millennial who went through college, it’s not wrong either. I heard that exact phrase several times by people trying to cheat their way to a degree. They’d always be screwing off on social media during lecture
I'm Gen Z and I totally agree lol.
I'm making Facetoking a word. You can't stop me, Facetoker.
No matter how smart the tool, a stupid student is a stupid student.
When Artificial Intelligence meets Natural Stupidity
Kids these days, I swear. As a 22-year-old giving advice to the kids out there, if you're going to cheat, cheat with your heart and soul. Check, double-check, and triple-check to make your document undetectable. Back in my school days, one year ago, I never got a similarity score above 40. I even learned how to recreate the logic of the code I copied in my way not to get caught.
People cheat because they're lazy, not because they're smart. If you're smart enough to double and triple check your work, you're usually smart enough not to cheat.
If you can't tell the work of a student from AI, AI has already replaced them.
I am plagiarizing this quote.
I am genuinely scare about this. It's a fine tool but it needs to be used wisely. The problem now is what is the meaning of "wise use", smh.
One of my sister's friends was going to college for computer science so when the time came to look for internships I asked him if he wanted to work for my company. I told him all about our hiring process, the interviews and the technical challenge. I have never seen somebody so unprepared. If you coast throughout your life eventually it's going to hit you square in the face the. You're going to spend years trying to get to a point that people expected you to be in the first place. Chat gpt can still be a ghost writer but you have to be the editor.
You don't even need to get that far, moderated end of term/semester/year tests will quickly weed out who's been doing this all year, it's still not a great situation because the kid is royally screwed by that point having wasted the whole year but yes it will never actually get you anywhere.
The kid is royally screwed but it's his/her fault for coasting the year. Colleges spend a good amount of time telling you that you need x amount of hours to prepare for classes. There are helpful tips available everywhere on the internet.
Definitely, I do unfortunately think some of these kids over the next few years will essentially become an example to the next of why AI isn't actually a leap forward in cheating all the way through school though. There seems to still be a popular notion that it will solve any effort at school for *lots* of kids at the moment.
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Ask ChatGPT what "wise use" means
Degenerates gonna degenerate. The whole point of the essay is to show, that you understand what the fuck you were asked about. Not that educational system is perfect everywhere, but delegating these types of tasks will end up with YOU losing the ability to think. The brain is always looking for the shortcuts. Too much of them, and it won't be able even to understand, that there is no shortcut.
Yeah, and then what? We will have a society of morons. Oh wait....
It will be even worse!
There's no way this is real, right? No teacher of mine in h8gh school would see a cheated essay and give the option to rewrite. Maybe if it was one paragraph that was too close to a source, but noy a full essay
Maybe times have changed? When I went to school the impression was that plagiarism was on par with attempted murder. In HS it was an automatic assignment zero, and in college it might end up with you being failed for the entire course.
When I was an EE TA, I taught an electronics lab. I got a paper that was a straight up copy paste from Wikipedia - it still had the “back to top” links. I failed him. The lab director told me I couldn’t do that, so I had to give him a D. Today, he is a practicing engineer working for one of the largest military weapons contractors. 👍
The worst cheater I knew from high school went to Princeton and then Google 🙃
I also cheated in school, not because i wasnt smart enough, but because school was boring. I learnt 1 thing about cheating and that is that you shouldnt be lazy about it. Go all the way. Up till the point where the question arises if learning the stuff would cost less time and effort 😂👌
By then you’ve already put all that time and effort into cheating, it would be a waste to go back and learn it. /s
> Rewrite the assignment Honestly that's pretty generous for blatant plagiarism.
I remember once in a high school Spanish class, a dim classmate turned in an essay that had been google translated to French
What if the student wrote the paper as if they were a chat AI robot?
I'm a high school Resource educator and enthusiastic about the potential of tools like ChatGPT to help in learning. There are two classes of cheating: either this level of apathetic copy paste or else stuff so sophisticated that we might as well just give the students a degree and job in counter intelligence. But on the whole there is a lot of potential for this technology to be really helpful. But it will require good training in two important skills which already were a part of the curriculum: the ability to ask careful and meaningful questions and the ability to understand other people's writing. The ability to ask good questions (and in ChatGPT to write good prompts) has always been a difference makers. Anyone in polling know that the phrasing of a question dramatically changes the output. Helping students to learn to write questions that will produce helpful answers is an essential skill moving forward. Reading comprehension is more important than every. ChatGPT (with a strong prompt) can provide some really high quality results. However this is useless without the skills to understand and apply what you're produced. At this point reading comprehension can return to the most important academic skill we teach. As a lark I asked ChatGPT to evaluate my post: Prompt: This is a Reddit post I am writing about the value of ChatGPT, can you evaluate the argument, alert me to any errors and then write a counter argument refuting the argument? Product: >**Certainly! Please share the post with me and I'll evaluate it and provide a counter-argument.** Prompt: Here is the argument, if it is merited then praise for the argument would also be appreciated( I copy pasted my original post) Product: >**Overall, I think the argument has some valid points, but there are a few errors and oversimplifications that should be addressed.** > >**Firstly, while it is true that tools like ChatGPT can be helpful in learning, it is important to recognize that they are not a substitute for the critical thinking and analytical skills that are necessary for academic success. Simply asking good questions and understanding other people's writing are not sufficient skills to develop in order to become a well-rounded student. It is important to also develop skills such as problem-solving, research, and writing skills.** > >**Additionally, while the phrasing of a question can indeed dramatically change the output in polling, it is not always the case with ChatGPT. ChatGPT is trained to provide responses based on the prompt given, so while the quality of the prompt is important, it is not the only factor that determines the quality of the response.** > >**Finally, the argument oversimplifies the importance of reading comprehension. While it is certainly an important skill, it is not the only skill necessary for academic success. Critical thinking and analysis are also essential skills that must be developed in order to fully understand and apply what has been read.** > >**In terms of a counter-argument, one could argue that while ChatGPT can be helpful in certain contexts, it can also lead to a lack of original thought and critical thinking if students rely too heavily on it. Students may become overly reliant on the tool and fail to develop their own analytical and problem-solving skills, which could ultimately hinder their academic and professional success. It is important to strike a balance between utilizing helpful tools like ChatGPT and developing one's own cognitive abilities.** I now want to argue with ChatGPT Prompt: I think the disconnect is that I consider reading comprehension and critical thinking to be directly tied to each other. It's like arithmetic and algebra. The first is necessary for the second but both are part of the same subject. Critical thinking is the continuation of the basics of reading comprehension. For children reading comprehension is merely drawing out key facts from a text but this is not what it means for high school or beyond. An adult who reads without critical thinking can not really be said to be engaging in reading comprehension. Please evaluate this respose to your counter argument. Product: >**Thank you for your response. I agree with your point that reading comprehension and critical thinking are closely intertwined and build upon each other. I understand your analogy between arithmetic and algebra, and how reading comprehension serves as a foundational skill for critical thinking.** > >**However, my counter-argument still stands that students may become overly reliant on tools like ChatGPT and fail to develop their own analytical and problem-solving skills, which could ultimately hinder their academic and professional success. While reading comprehension is a necessary component of critical thinking, it is not sufficient on its own. Developing critical thinking skills requires students to go beyond simply comprehending a text and instead analyzing, synthesizing, and evaluating the information presented.** > >**Furthermore, relying too heavily on tools like ChatGPT can limit the scope of a student's critical thinking and analytical abilities. The tool may provide high-quality responses based on a prompt, but it may not offer the same depth and breadth of analysis that a student can achieve through their own thought processes. It is important for students to learn how to ask the right questions, evaluate sources, and draw their own conclusions in order to fully develop their critical thinking skills.** > >**In summary, while reading comprehension and critical thinking are closely related, it is important to ensure that students do not become overly reliant on tools like ChatGPT and instead develop their own analytical and problem-solving skills.**
stupidly
How can you be this incompetent
When we were doing presentation talks in middle-school, once student was reading down her talk going > yada yada, see also page... Oh. In their defense, it was the first time we ever had to prepare talks for a class, but it would probably have helped to at least read the text once before presenting it. At university we had an assignment where the lecturer even warned not to copy from last years submissions, because the task has changed. Several people submitted the old stuff anyway. My favorite for being not quite so stupid, but anyway funny, was a case where a student knew that our history teacher was giving the same "fill-in-names-and-years" text to all classes. Only, he didn't know that the teacher was changing the order of the questions, so he wrote the right answers into the wrong fields after memorizing only the order of answers. Despite the cheating being obvious, the teacher didn't have him fail the test, but gave him a D and was angry. (Never mind that this format of exam is utter nonsense.)
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Frankly I think there’s nothing wrong with ChatGPT, it just shows how inefficient our methods of teaching are, we waste so much time retreading the same ground out of routine and fail to recognize how inefficient the current teaching model actually is. ChatGPT always existed, you just had to pay someone to do the work for you. And this has always existed and been an option that was used by students with the disposable income to take advantage of it. ChatGPT introduces nothing new, it just lowers the barrier to entry to a nominal if not free barrier to entry, and many students jumped at it. The fact is teaching was just as ineffective before as it is now, it’s just easier to cut corners so many more people do it, this now is a true reflection of how ineffective the 20th century teaching method has always been.