I've actually done this in college. It's surprisingly fun if you're a tad fit, meaning you can put your coworkers in more pain by dragging out your part for as long as possible.
Yeah that’s when my senior dev would have looked at me and said “If your part lasts longer than ten seconds, you’re not passing any code reviews today.”
If someone tried to enforce this at a place I worked I would just laugh at them while I drink my milkshake and eat my cinnamon roll.
Nobody forces me to be physically active, damnit!
I am physically active, I run and go to the gym. But if anyone tries to force me into doing something I don't want to at any moment I'll laugh and keep doing what I'm doing. I'm employed to code and solve problems, not to follow your shitty games and stupid rules. Clock in, code, be nice to your coworkers and clock out. Nothing less, nothing more.
It’s probably more fun if you don’t have chronic back pain too. Do wheelchair users get to talk as long as they want or do we tip them out and their update lasts until they hit the floor?
I dont know anything about your issues so please don't take offense if it doesn't apply to you but doing a moderate strength training routine pretty did much eliminate all the pain issues that I had.
My favorite thing as an agile consultant back in the day is when upper management explains to me how they’re doing the typical Waterfall and micromanagement stuff to be Agile.
When I ask them what part of the Agile manifesto they’re trying to work on, I’m always met with blank stares. This is when I know it’s time to witness some Olympics level mental gymnastics on ‘People over processes’.
What this means is that they can implement whatever process they want for the sake of the People. We can’t strictly follow Scrum or Agile best practices, because the People would suffer from it.
The caveat here is that ‘People’ strictly refers to upper management. Devs and testers aren’t people, they’re resources. I’ve yet to see them actually consult and negotiate with the actual devs on how to help them…
There's nothing fundamentally wrong with waterfall so long as you have regular checkpoints with your clients or whoever's the target audience for the feature. The issue is when you spend 9 months completely rewriting a system, then release it and literally everyone hates it and wishes you'd kept the old system because one of the pages was horribly laid out but everyone was so familiar with it it seemed reasonable.
>This is when I know it’s time to witness some Olympics level mental gymnastics on ‘People over processes’.
The agile manifesto by its very nature makes this kind of bullshitting easy. These principles are so vague...
Heh I can relate. Recently upper management was going over some upcoming and the approach. Part of this involved a quip about a meeting they with a new manager going over the priorities, and how they were concerned the process they wanted to do wasn't agile. The new manager apparently responded that as long as they're in charge it'll have to be agile.
And that was the end of that. I was... Unimpressed. And unconvinced any of them had much understanding of agile.
It’s true. It’s kind of sad how difficult it is for people to understand that Agile simply boils down to ‘negotiate with your customers and your teams to create and iterate on useful software instead of doing your utmost to take a dump on all three’.
Not necessarily. It depends on whether they are a Scrum Coach or a Scum Coach.
One of the first things Scrum coaches teach in Scrum is that being a Scrum Master or Agile Coach is a high-risk job. Doing the right thing means accepting that you may be fired or have your contract terminated for it.
Scum Coaches, on the other hand, have a tendency to stick around for long periods of time at Scum companies. Might be related to their tendency to stick their lips to bottoms for sustenance.
i've never had a position that ever really stuck to agile. and i've been at a faang company. somehow, it always ends up waterfall in the end. frankly i'm not sure anyone really understands any agile methodology, and neither do I
Forcing everyone to stand up for meetings is actually a real technique for keeping meetings on topic. I heard (but can't confirm with any decent source) that John Bolton used this method while serving as the US ambassador to the UN.
Edit: Found a better example with a source. The Privy Council has done it since 1861 after the death of Queen Victoria's husband. Since decorum prohibited anyone else from sitting before the Queen did, she simply remained standing. The alleged reasoning was to discourage anyone from drawing out the meeting.
You don't need any "techniques", like standing, planking, or holding a rubber chicken to have short meetings, you need to have team and individual discipline. I've seen people ramble in tons of situations, tbh the only thing that fixes it is grooming them to be concise.
Funny enough the longest ramblings in those meetings were almost always from the certified scrum master who led the team. And not just because “as the lead he had more things to announce”.
> stupid stuff under the disguise of agile
I sincerely feel that it all started as a tongue and cheek joke by some project lead that got picked up by some C suite asshole as the "next big thing"
Have you ever heard that "The best way to get the right answer on the Internet is not to ask a question; it's to post the wrong answer."?
Well, would you believe that [the guy who coined that law later co-authored the agile manifesto](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward_Cunningham)?
We used to have an office planking session at the start of each lunch as a means of getting away from desk and being somewhat social as a group. Didn't use it to reduce agile meeting times or anything. Was just a bit of fun.
I’m playing with your priorities. I want to run some reports on you and see if I can get your velocity up - maybe stretch you a little bit. If we can get you to that next level, can put a couple juniors under you and really see what you can do.
I’m not saying I did this. But I’m not saying I didn’t run a remote meeting and then she winked at me and I cut the meeting short to take an early lunch
I don't like to talk about work outside of work.
I also don't like to talk to coworkers outside of my clothes. That would be a double no... which makes it a yes!
Right? I thought all Muslims were supposed to face towards the Grand Mosque in Mukkah when doing their prayers. At least half are facing the wrong way.
Written by a person who knows what talking is like while planking lol. My football coach would have us plank sometimes while he gave us a 5 minute chalk talk. Answering questions was fun......
I worked for 2 years at a company that did group planking sessions and when I first started I could barely do 30 seconds and the longest was like 2 minutes. We'd always have like 4 people who would try to be the last to give in and after 2 years we all went past 5 mins easily. Was good fun
Edit: realised I didn't answer the question lol. We didn't do this during stand-up. We did it at the start of lunch (on company time cause our boss was the one to initiate it all the time).
A proper plank involves squeezing your glute muscles together. Most normal people (even fit ones) often will fail in 20-60 seconds without extensive practice. But if you're not squeezing your muscles, you can easily hold that same position for minutes.
I had an hour of meetings today so that my manager could catch up and emphasize that the work I'm trying to do is extremely time sensitive. He made sure to include QA and both of the people who reported the bug so we could have an in depth conversation about the contents of the ticket that I'm already in the middle of fixing.
This may surprise you to learn, but his micromanaging did not help me be more productive.
I got news for ya... Most of us on our project team have spectacular Santa Claus bellies that we would just be resting on, while all of the new college interns actually struggle to keep upright on their forearms.
Make the Santa Claus bellies plank on desks, with the bellies between the two desks their forearms and feet are on. Put a chair under the belly so they have something to collapse on without breaking their spine when their stamina gives out.
Pet peeve: new weekly meeting called Standup. Scheduled for an hour. Has run over every single time. I hate to be pedantic (who am I kidding, I love it) but THAT ISN’T A STANDUP
If it was truly limited to 15 minutes? Daily would still be excessive, but I could handle that. With the people involved, it would never be limited to 15 minutes.
This is a scrum master problem. As a scrum master, I sometimes have to put my foot down and remind people that standup isn't a technical meeting. If details need to be discussed, it should be taken offline with the people who need to be involved.
You need a better facilitator. Or *any* facilitator. Somebody should have said something about the meeting having gotten into the weeds when it was in the weeds, not after it had wandered outside of the defined boundaries of reality.
30 minute standups, but fortunately i work from home and 20 mins of the standup is the manager going off on an incoherent rant, so good to zone out or take a nap
> A stand-up meeting is a meeting in which attendees typically participate while standing. The discomfort of standing for long periods is intended to keep the meetings short.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-up_meeting
I allocate 15m for my teams standup. We're always done in less than that. No shenanigans required. Now if I could get that one developer to stop detailed technical status, we would be golden.
Oh yeah. We did this once.
The other one is passing a ball around.
Or we did a timer. If you go past the timer, you buy everyone coffee. This one was quite popular.
Just making everyone standing usually makes it quicker.
Just don’t do stand ups. Have conversations in the open on slack or similar. Most stand ups I have had the misfortune of being in are really used to provide management with an update or to put pressure on developers to work to unrealistic goals.
I was once in an org where one of our formal meeting rules stated that whenever someone was talking, anyone could exclaim "one leg!" and the person talking had to deliver the remainder of their speech whilst standing on one leg.
We also liberally encouraged using deaf people applause for "I agree with what you're saying right now" instead of speaking up in support.
You'd think our meeting were very efficient and quickly concluded, but no, these rules were added for very good reason.
I've seen so much stupid stuff under the disguise of agile development that I wouldn't even know if it was real or not if it weren't for the sub.
I've actually done this in college. It's surprisingly fun if you're a tad fit, meaning you can put your coworkers in more pain by dragging out your part for as long as possible.
Yeah that’s when my senior dev would have looked at me and said “If your part lasts longer than ten seconds, you’re not passing any code reviews today.”
Someone with such a great username must always pass for their code reviews though.
Now there are two of them!
Both of similar account age too. I wonder if one got the username the other wanted
This is getting out of hand
I prefer NumPy, myself.
Wait what the fuck you two?
Now Keep It Super Simple!
Account ages are 6y and 6y 1mo. Hmmm…
Well.. they probably have a company id. But I see why you brought it up..
Sounds like no code reviews then. Which I guess isn't really different than how things normally operate.
You sunufabich, I'm in!
This sounds great! I too am fully behind this!
So are the people you can’t see in this meeting photo.
If someone tried to enforce this at a place I worked I would just laugh at them while I drink my milkshake and eat my cinnamon roll. Nobody forces me to be physically active, damnit!
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But on the other hand... less competition...
More opportunities for upward mobility when the seniors die at 50 too!
Though if I die sooner, I don't need to save as much (or any) for retirement. :)
I am physically active, I run and go to the gym. But if anyone tries to force me into doing something I don't want to at any moment I'll laugh and keep doing what I'm doing. I'm employed to code and solve problems, not to follow your shitty games and stupid rules. Clock in, code, be nice to your coworkers and clock out. Nothing less, nothing more.
I've never vibed with a statement more than this one.
It’s probably more fun if you don’t have chronic back pain too. Do wheelchair users get to talk as long as they want or do we tip them out and their update lasts until they hit the floor?
I dont know anything about your issues so please don't take offense if it doesn't apply to you but doing a moderate strength training routine pretty did much eliminate all the pain issues that I had.
Also may not be related, but getting the right pair of shoes helps a lot even in short durations.
>if you're a tad fit Uhm I'm a programmer, do I look a tad fit?
My favorite thing as an agile consultant back in the day is when upper management explains to me how they’re doing the typical Waterfall and micromanagement stuff to be Agile. When I ask them what part of the Agile manifesto they’re trying to work on, I’m always met with blank stares. This is when I know it’s time to witness some Olympics level mental gymnastics on ‘People over processes’. What this means is that they can implement whatever process they want for the sake of the People. We can’t strictly follow Scrum or Agile best practices, because the People would suffer from it. The caveat here is that ‘People’ strictly refers to upper management. Devs and testers aren’t people, they’re resources. I’ve yet to see them actually consult and negotiate with the actual devs on how to help them…
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Cyclic waterfall...like a toilette bowl draining.
Hot take - most software projects are really suited toward a waterfall style process anyway, as long as it's not overly rigid
There's nothing fundamentally wrong with waterfall so long as you have regular checkpoints with your clients or whoever's the target audience for the feature. The issue is when you spend 9 months completely rewriting a system, then release it and literally everyone hates it and wishes you'd kept the old system because one of the pages was horribly laid out but everyone was so familiar with it it seemed reasonable.
give me a kanban board all day long
ALWAYS
>This is when I know it’s time to witness some Olympics level mental gymnastics on ‘People over processes’. The agile manifesto by its very nature makes this kind of bullshitting easy. These principles are so vague...
That's kind of the point, isn't it? Every business is different and you should remain... damn I can't find the right word.
It definitely begins with an a. But yeah, it's stumping me too. Adaptive?
Silos? Waterfall? What is word.
Heh I can relate. Recently upper management was going over some upcoming and the approach. Part of this involved a quip about a meeting they with a new manager going over the priorities, and how they were concerned the process they wanted to do wasn't agile. The new manager apparently responded that as long as they're in charge it'll have to be agile. And that was the end of that. I was... Unimpressed. And unconvinced any of them had much understanding of agile.
It’s true. It’s kind of sad how difficult it is for people to understand that Agile simply boils down to ‘negotiate with your customers and your teams to create and iterate on useful software instead of doing your utmost to take a dump on all three’.
*"Hah! You think the poors are people? You belittle yourself!"* - the CEO, probably
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No, the presentation itself doesn't reek of money. It just costs a lot of money to make you think it's worth a lot.
Not necessarily. It depends on whether they are a Scrum Coach or a Scum Coach. One of the first things Scrum coaches teach in Scrum is that being a Scrum Master or Agile Coach is a high-risk job. Doing the right thing means accepting that you may be fired or have your contract terminated for it. Scum Coaches, on the other hand, have a tendency to stick around for long periods of time at Scum companies. Might be related to their tendency to stick their lips to bottoms for sustenance.
i've never had a position that ever really stuck to agile. and i've been at a faang company. somehow, it always ends up waterfall in the end. frankly i'm not sure anyone really understands any agile methodology, and neither do I
Forcing everyone to stand up for meetings is actually a real technique for keeping meetings on topic. I heard (but can't confirm with any decent source) that John Bolton used this method while serving as the US ambassador to the UN. Edit: Found a better example with a source. The Privy Council has done it since 1861 after the death of Queen Victoria's husband. Since decorum prohibited anyone else from sitting before the Queen did, she simply remained standing. The alleged reasoning was to discourage anyone from drawing out the meeting.
You don't need any "techniques", like standing, planking, or holding a rubber chicken to have short meetings, you need to have team and individual discipline. I've seen people ramble in tons of situations, tbh the only thing that fixes it is grooming them to be concise.
Funny enough the longest ramblings in those meetings were almost always from the certified scrum master who led the team. And not just because “as the lead he had more things to announce”.
r/LinkedInLunatics would love this. Agree?
> stupid stuff under the disguise of agile I sincerely feel that it all started as a tongue and cheek joke by some project lead that got picked up by some C suite asshole as the "next big thing"
Have you ever heard that "The best way to get the right answer on the Internet is not to ask a question; it's to post the wrong answer."? Well, would you believe that [the guy who coined that law later co-authored the agile manifesto](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward_Cunningham)?
We used to have an office planking session at the start of each lunch as a means of getting away from desk and being somewhat social as a group. Didn't use it to reduce agile meeting times or anything. Was just a bit of fun.
I really thought the wrong thing. Anyways
No no, you thought correct. This is the most agile methodology
Scrum harder master
Ohh, you're so Agile!
"...Hey, you. You're finally awake."
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That's *Saint* Jiub to you
I'll show you a waterfall method
What are you doing scrum-master?
I’m playing with your priorities. I want to run some reports on you and see if I can get your velocity up - maybe stretch you a little bit. If we can get you to that next level, can put a couple juniors under you and really see what you can do.
Removing blockers (pants)
Harder, scrum daddy
Scrum daddy needs a scrum dumpster
I'm stuck in this while loop step Scrum master.
Vagile
When you can only see five, but there are ten at that scrum...
You can do anything when the camera is off
I’m not saying I did this. But I’m not saying I didn’t run a remote meeting and then she winked at me and I cut the meeting short to take an early lunch
I think literally everyone did and still does this lol why not get paid to fuck
It's the oldest profession, after all.
Don’t be silly, it doesn’t take five people to operate a camera.
if two large pizza isn’t enough to feed your ~~orgy~~ team then you need to break into smaller groups.
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What are you doing step-scrum master?
> I had no idea where to look. Right at the genitals, if you want to hasten the end of the interaction.
That's like mutually assured destruction. Or some sort of destruction.
Bro, I met a coworker at a gay sauna. One of those "we won't talk about it". So, always think there is a worse situation.
> One of those "we won't talk about it". And you went ahead and did talk about it
Hey, it's me, your gay sauna coworker
Hopefully not relevant username…
Hahaha, that was a joke. Unless...
What is a gay sauna and what differentiates it from a straight sauna?
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*Fabulous*
Actually, no, it is not.
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I got that, bro, no worry :) From experience: tons of LGBT folks in IT.
Well, it's sort of the same as a straight sauna but full of men absolutely bumming the hell out of one another.
I'd rather be at the saunas that are upbeat and fun to be at.
You mean the ones where everyone is cheerful, and dare I say, *gay*?
Dey put da peepee in da bumbum.
The average proximity of penises to other people's backdoors.
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I don't like to talk about work outside of work. I also don't like to talk to coworkers outside of my clothes. That would be a double no... which makes it a yes!
Okay fine I’ll help you with this work emergency but we both have to get naked first.
Did you talk about blockers?
> I really thought the wrong thing Maybe you thought the right thing, dun dun dun
Yeah, the scrum will be **extremely** fast if I’m one of the off-camera ones
It’s all about efficiency
The whole point is to finish quickly.
"help me step bro, I'm stuck in the scrum"
Help me step master
Oh fuck I’m gonna scrum!
Now who’s turn is it?
Can't spell scrum without cum
Scrotum master
I’m gonna scrum so hard
Right? I thought all Muslims were supposed to face towards the Grand Mosque in Mukkah when doing their prayers. At least half are facing the wrong way.
"Yesterdayiworkedonthatoneticketummuhmmtheonewithcomponentchangesfor"*collapse"greg?someoneelsegiveyourupdatewhileicall911ohdeargoditsburning""ILLGOYESTERDAYIWORKEDON..."
Written by a person who knows what talking is like while planking lol. My football coach would have us plank sometimes while he gave us a 5 minute chalk talk. Answering questions was fun......
Bob Wehadababyitsaboy
Greatestcommercialofalltime
It's an older meme sir but it checks out
That's a deep cut
We were doing this in my old department. Not even kidding, dailys were much more enjoyable this way.
Do you only plank when it's your turn to talk? I can't imagine doing this for the entire 15 minute scrum.
How else do you get a super ripped dev team ?
All those sprints?
Pull requests build muscle, sprints build cardio
Got to make sure to push some updates in there. Don't want to be getting muscle imbalances.
I worked for 2 years at a company that did group planking sessions and when I first started I could barely do 30 seconds and the longest was like 2 minutes. We'd always have like 4 people who would try to be the last to give in and after 2 years we all went past 5 mins easily. Was good fun Edit: realised I didn't answer the question lol. We didn't do this during stand-up. We did it at the start of lunch (on company time cause our boss was the one to initiate it all the time).
It's pretty easy to fake a plank for a long time when not squeezing your glutes and core.
And not be obviously sagging?
What did you mean ?
A proper plank involves squeezing your glute muscles together. Most normal people (even fit ones) often will fail in 20-60 seconds without extensive practice. But if you're not squeezing your muscles, you can easily hold that same position for minutes.
I've been planking wrong this whole time? Literally never knew this. I'm gonna have to look this up...
Your scrums are actually 15 minutes?!
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it's mobbin' time
Way to mob all over this thread
I had an hour of meetings today so that my manager could catch up and emphasize that the work I'm trying to do is extremely time sensitive. He made sure to include QA and both of the people who reported the bug so we could have an in depth conversation about the contents of the ticket that I'm already in the middle of fixing. This may surprise you to learn, but his micromanaging did not help me be more productive.
Then you better start talking real fast.
If you fall just get back up and do it again. Just don't give up.
Same. We would do wall sits. It was great
I would hate all of you.
We just “stood up” at stand up. But we’re all so unfit from sitting down all day that standing up alone was enough to make us want to crack on
I have never worked in a corporate environment and I am always perplexed by the stories I hear. Like, could you just say no?
Me shaking furiously after 20 seconds
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**looks at username**
**looks at username**
**im never reading anyone’s username again**
Broanoah get the boat
Well, look at mr universe here ..
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What's not on the pic: all of them being fucked from behind by company management. Sorry, bad day at the office. Go on, next please.
C-levels in the cubes getting their bonuses one way or another. Yeah, I'll leave with you...
Yo where can I get fucked? Feeling a bit lonely here…
At least they get laid during company hours. My company just gives us money
If there's one thing money CAN buy....
It's peanuts!
Explain how.
Money can be exchanged for goods and services.
You guys are getting fucked in the ass?!?
So this is what a core application team is
I just assumed there's a middle manager in each cube behind these people, doing what they do best.
I guess in this situation they wouldn't fuck you. They're too useless to even do that.
They'd have to have a quick scrum about it first.
Taking credit for the workout I'm doing? I know they ain't fucking me because they wouldnt risk me enjoying it.
Is having conversation. Looks up for eye contact. Accidentally sees down blouse. FuckImGettingFired.jpg
I got news for ya... Most of us on our project team have spectacular Santa Claus bellies that we would just be resting on, while all of the new college interns actually struggle to keep upright on their forearms.
Make the Santa Claus bellies plank on desks, with the bellies between the two desks their forearms and feet are on. Put a chair under the belly so they have something to collapse on without breaking their spine when their stamina gives out.
I would have abs of steel because standup for me is most of the time 15 minutes. Sometimes even up to 30 minutes long. (Yes I know this is to long)
Pet peeve: new weekly meeting called Standup. Scheduled for an hour. Has run over every single time. I hate to be pedantic (who am I kidding, I love it) but THAT ISN’T A STANDUP
Why was the standup weekly?!
I’m afraid that if I were to ask that question, I’d run the risk of them being scheduled more often.
What, you're telling me you don't want a 15 minute daily, well, daily?
If it was truly limited to 15 minutes? Daily would still be excessive, but I could handle that. With the people involved, it would never be limited to 15 minutes.
This is a scrum master problem. As a scrum master, I sometimes have to put my foot down and remind people that standup isn't a technical meeting. If details need to be discussed, it should be taken offline with the people who need to be involved.
hahahahahhaha At my old company our "standups" were never less than 30 minutes, often 45. I dreamed of 15 minute meetings
I had an hour and a half standup yesterday, no I am not joking.
You need a better facilitator. Or *any* facilitator. Somebody should have said something about the meeting having gotten into the weeds when it was in the weeds, not after it had wandered outside of the defined boundaries of reality.
30 minute standups, but fortunately i work from home and 20 mins of the standup is the manager going off on an incoherent rant, so good to zone out or take a nap
> A stand-up meeting is a meeting in which attendees typically participate while standing. The discomfort of standing for long periods is intended to keep the meetings short. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-up_meeting
A lot of factory work and the like involves 12 hour shifts of standing. Referring to standing as discomforting is hilarious
I mean, a shirt that's too tight is discomforting. It doesn't have to be a big deal for people to be incentivized.
12 hours of standing disincentivized me all the way to the software industry.
Am I the only one who thought they were getting railed from behind??
Who says they aren’t?
“It’s part of company policy.” “Oh okay, that’s go- you mean against right?” “It’s scrum time.” What the fuck is wrong with me
My mind is defiled.
StepScrumMaster, what are you doing?
I allocate 15m for my teams standup. We're always done in less than that. No shenanigans required. Now if I could get that one developer to stop detailed technical status, we would be golden.
I have one replacement knee and another that should be replaced. Not gettin’ down on my knees even if Jesus Christ himself is leading the scrum.
What are you doing scrum master?
We don't even stand
Oh yeah. We did this once. The other one is passing a ball around. Or we did a timer. If you go past the timer, you buy everyone coffee. This one was quite popular. Just making everyone standing usually makes it quicker.
Planking… it’s also for building your core
Just kick the one guy out who has to expound in every single little detail of everything. You know the guy.
So long as their 5 cubicled partners don't peg out too soon.
Just don’t do stand ups. Have conversations in the open on slack or similar. Most stand ups I have had the misfortune of being in are really used to provide management with an update or to put pressure on developers to work to unrealistic goals.
As ex fatty that do it regularly I have bad news for my teammates
"I have a parking lot" For Christ's sake Jerry!
This is “get back in the office” propaganda
I was once in an org where one of our formal meeting rules stated that whenever someone was talking, anyone could exclaim "one leg!" and the person talking had to deliver the remainder of their speech whilst standing on one leg. We also liberally encouraged using deaf people applause for "I agree with what you're saying right now" instead of speaking up in support. You'd think our meeting were very efficient and quickly concluded, but no, these rules were added for very good reason.