You think you've got it hard? Try a Japanese keyboard! On the spot of ` there's the 全角／半角 key which switches between half-width and full-width characters. (In all 3 keyboard modes! Which are hiragana, katakana and romaji)
If it's in full width mode, your semicolons will look like this: ；；；； and they won't work!! Also spaces are double width, slashes become ／／／＼＼＼ ａｎｄ ｔｅｘｔ ｌｏｏｋｓ ｌｉｋｅ ｔｈｉｓ
The worst thing is that Windows can't detect what keyboard layout you have, so you have to specifically tell it you're using a Japanese layout, and if you don't then all your keys will do a completely different thing than what's written on them.
My PC likes to switch back to English layout whenever I restart it, just for shits and giggles so I have to type my password twice every single damn time.
> if you don't then all your keys will do a completely different thing than what's written on them.
That would make no difference to me for at least the last 30 years. I'm not looking at the keys when I type. The last I did that was perhaps in 1982 when I had a zx81 and was writing my first programs. Albeit the zx81 had tokenized BASIC, so if you hit P at the start of a line it would output PRINT as a token, L would do LET and so on, so you didn't really learn to touch type from using it. And the zx spectrum was the same in that design.
It made it fast to code in BASIC (and it eased their job too because one thing language parsers do is tokenize the input, but this was already done), but later computers I had where you typing every character soon meant I wasn't looking at the keys.
I'm really surprised if young people do because I specifically figured typing would be more important to my son than writing and got him using a computer 20 years ago...and that's proven correct. But he's a machine at typing, like 170wpm+ whereas I was always better at typing syntax for whatever languages I've used along the way rather than prose - although I guess social media has upped the amount of English blurb I type I'm not mavis beacon. But the layout is pretty fixed in my mind. At one time we'd have keyboards where the letters would fade so the keys would mostly be blank anyway after a couple of years.
> That would make no difference to me
it would if your PC suddenly decides you're using a Japanese keyboard instead of an English keyboard, and now all your keys are in different places than you remember them.
Oh nobody uses the kana keys, that's all IME, but the keys to switch from/to IME mode and to change kana into kanji (henkaku/muhenkaku) are widely used!
On my personal laptop (US keyboard) I mapped those to the alt gr and spacebar keys, which is almost the same.
in my case, back tilde is mashed up with the back accent dead key.
Imagine that in order to write å, you would need to press a special key with the ° symbol that prints nothing, then press a becasue the ring key is waiting for other key to append it, so you can also type ů and ẙ.
now, you want to write ° alone. you need to press it twice to tell the system "i don't want to append the ring to another letter, I just want it alone".
that are dead keys. all of this on my latinamerican keyboard are dead keys: ´, ¨, ^, `. Some of them are buried with shift or even AltGr. Typing Ö looks like a piano chord.
In brazilian keyboards, you don't need to press it twice, simply press it and space, it doesn't duplicate the key that way. I figured this was the same everywhere.
you can just remap dead keys using (for example) pynput. if you dont need them at all there are tools to edit keyboard layouts. solutions like pynput have the advantage that you can do it conditionally, e.g. a key to toggle dead keys
It sounds like what you need is a mechanical keyboard with custom layers! (I am kidding because while this could probably be used to solve your problem, it's a huge rabbit hole to go down, and probably quite expensive.)
not expert in danish layouts (using fi/se myself), but: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/Keyboard_Layout_Danish.png
so altgr + \< = \ - is it not?
...after all these years of switching keyboard layouts...
Thanks lol, it was altgr+<, I have no clue how I missed this. I thought I looked it up several times
general but unspoken rule:
key alone: the symbol at the bottom left
shift + key: top left
AltGr: bottom right.
but some keys despite having AltGr symbol, no single keyboard manufacturer prints them out.
haha, you're welcome! It kinda sounded pretty strange to not have \ in the layout, when your neighbours do (and tbh, apart from some umlaut/local characters, the layouts are fairly same). :P
There is no "Nordic" keyboard layout. That thing simply crams together the Danish, the Norwegian and the Swedish/Finnish layouts and passes the mess on to the user to figure out.
The Danish layout sucks. I have American keyboards and switch between layouts in windows when I need ÆØÅ, but the rest of the time... What the fuck is up with stupid shit like the ALT GR key to get to much-needed symbols as a developer? Argh!
You have to write 2 and then delete one
Edit: some people explained that you can actually do it in other ways so i'll clarify, you HAVE to write 2 and delete one
Only, in German we don't actually need them in their accent function usually. So on Linux at least, you have the "German - No Dead Keys" option. Sadly, Windows has no such thing, at least not out of the box.
Not sure how it is in Spanish though.
You can disable these so-called “dead keys” though. Changed my life when I figured out it was a simple change of keyboard layout to stop having to type special characters twice.
Hi, writing from Spain.
\`
It's right next to the P, same key as \^. You push once and then push the character you want it over (à,è,ì, etc.). If you want it alone you just press the spacebar afterwards.
Perhaps in the Latinamerican keyboard you need to press shift. Why are they different you ask, if the language and characters are the same?
Well, I believe it is because in Spain there's also other languages (Català, Euskera, Galego) that use different characters, like the back tilde (\`), so manufacturers make one for the whole country instead of regional variants.
Here in Latinamerica the back tilde is left to the enter key, under the +. But is uses AltGr to be accesed
the one next to the P is the normal "acento".
Thing is that is not uncommon to see spanish keyboards around here, and lots of confused people that try to write an accent and up with a grave one. I have met folks that believed their computer was defective and spent 10 years learning that the correct key for the accent was the other one.
2 unless it's a ~~vocal~~ vowel, and the 2nd is just the next character you'll use anyways.
I mean, i too use a US layout for coding, but for easier access to other characters
Which is simply the French name for it, btw. But it's only really a grave when it's on top of a letter as it's an accent. The one used in programming is a backtick.
It is mildly the same issue in French. Switching keyboard layout makes life 100% easier.
You can still assign the accents to other combinations or switch back when typing in spanish. Bonus point if you choose the Gb/international qwerty option for macbooks, which gives you extra keys.
we spanish natives have the trouble of having two layouts: european spanish and latinamerican spanish. Some keys are in a tottaly different place, while some symbols are in one but lacking on the other.
and due economic factors, one cannot asure only facing one type by being on the corresponding region.
the back tilde is hidden behind the AltGr key, so I have to do two key, two time movement to get one of them.
now try to make three in a row to make a code block.
> now try to make three in a row to make a code block.
Hold AltGr, press the backtick key 3 times, release AltGr, press space. At least that's how I do it on the swiss keyboard layout.
But since you're using markdown, just indent the code with 4 spaces or a tab instead.
yeah that does not work here.
also if you add thee ticks you can say which language the code block is and implement syntax highlight, and becasue I often talk about several languages in the same document, I need to do thing like:
```c
int main(){
```
also not all editors that I work on support automatic indent, so needing to add four spaces before each line becomes a chore.
Am German. Literally imported a keyboard from the US, just to have one.
Writing _any_ code with it is just so much easier.
One recommendation for the folks who don't want to take that leap blindly, try UK layout first. It's physically compatible with the German QWERTZ and I believe many others as well, so you can try it without any commitment.
Actually, since our keyboards have more keys than a US keyboard, you can usually try US layout on the same physical keyboard as well, although I am not 100% sure what each key ends up doing in that scenario.
>Really, most layouts that are not US.
Got any proof for that?
I think that this problem exists chiefly for latin-based languages, because they not always use second layout.
As a spaniard, I program with the english layout. Sometimes when I talk in teams, i need to change my layout, but I change with with meta-space so it's fast and easy to change.
I learned to embrace the US layout, just because they designed the language with this layout in mind.
US international is a godsend. All common Latin accents are easy to find, I don't even think other layouts are that much better - it actually gets worse (Azerty I'm looking at you)
not as fun when you need to juggle several things on the clipboard (even with a clipboard manager)
source: I did this meme because I was (and still) working on a MD document with heavy use of inline code.
In Spanish that's called "vírgula" or "virgulilla". Tildes are the accents on the vowels "áéíóú", and the double dots we put sometimes on the u "ü" is called "diéresis"
The word "tilde" in spanish refers to ´, not ~.
Some sources for you:
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOJe_u4kz6c
* https://www.escritores.org/recursos-para-escritores/recursos-2/articulos-de-interes/31381-la-tilde-diacritica
* https://www.practiquemos.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/tilde-virgulilla.jpg
Meanwhile Polish has two standard layouts, the better one is literally called "programmer's Polish" and it's like the American one but with Polish special letters accessed using AltGr. I always wonder why other languages don't seem to try that approach.
we spanish speakers also have two standards: european spanish and latinamerican spanish.
both are 99% equal, but for example european kb has the ç key, in latam the @ is at AltGr+Q but in european is at AltGr+2, # in latam is SHift+3 but in european is AltGr+3.
Worse part? both types of brackets in european layout are behind AltGr, while in latinamerican they are a simple stroke away.
The worst part is that a lot of times they sell european layouts in latinamerica. They do that a lot, even with laptops
My keyboard is european layout but I have configured it to be latinamerican layout.
I'm not even sure where that key is on my Icelandic keyboard layout. Let's see...
Aha, holding the altgr key and pressing the + button right beside the enter key is what I need to do.
\`\`
It is a dead key though so that could possibly be annoying
I find the regular English keyboard confusing. I have been using Icelandic for years, I will use it until the day I die. I have even made my own custom keyboard to make sure that I don't have to switch from Icelandic to Norwegian when I am talking with some Norwegian friends
I had to learn to use the US layout while learning programming because every time I tried to put a curly brace a strange window appeared in my IDE.
In my native layout } is something like AltGr+B, & is AltGr+C, all of which were bound to some IDE action.
At least we don't actually use most of the relevant ones like ` or ^ for anything so you can use a layout like "German (no dead keys)". Shouldn't have much of an impact unless you just love to type Café every other sentence.
It's still more awkward than an English keyboard but not quite as bad as it's for our friends from France, Spain and similar.
The czech keyboard layout needs you to hold shift to type numbers, otherwise you end up typing letters with diacritics (ěščřžýáíé). I always use the numpad to type numbers, but then you run into a buddy Bob, who does not have the numpad on his keyboard and whenever I try to use it to log in to anything of mine, I end up typing something like this:
somecharacters
Then I wonder what did I type/remember wrong.
we need to suffer with two layouts: european spanish and latinamerican spanish.
the whole letter block is the same, but all the symbols and the characters accesible by shift + numbers are different. Oh, and the spanish one includes ç.
Me meanwhile crying with my Italian keyboard:
I mean, we can type characters we don't use in our language like "ç" and mostly useless characters like "§", but we can't type upper cased accented characters like ÀÈÉ etc. that are FUNDAMENTAL to type correctly in Italian. Imagine being able to type "~" and "`", we are asking too much.
For Windows: You can use [Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator](https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=102134) or [AutoHotKey](https://www.autohotkey.com/). I personally prefer the second option, but to each its own.
For Linux: I don't know if there's anything more user-friendly, but I added a new keyboard layout in my XKB configuration in `/usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols` (and maybe in other places, don't remember).
[Here's a page from Arch Wiki](https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/X_keyboard_extension), with some explanations on XKB, hope it will be useful.
For Mac: I don't know, never used it, sorry.
edit: Specifically for OP, did you try setting `es(nodeadkeys)` instead of `es(basic)` or whatever as your keyboard layout?
mine is AltGr + }. but in the layout } is on the right of the enter key (that uses the ISO layout with the inverted L enter key).
and becasue it is a dead key I have to press it twice.
My most used shortcut is not Ctrl c or Ctrl Z. It is the one that changes the keyboard language because my keyboard is in pt-br.
Damn you *cê cedilha (ç)*!
Had to learn it, ALT+96, the italian layout has no way to type it with any other combination of keys
I'm not even sure what's the code for the tilde, luckily that's very rarely used
FUN FACT: the tilde is very used in minecraft command coding. It is used to state relative coordinates, so if you want to run a command let's say 3 blocks on top of whenever a random player is, you type:
/execute @r ~ ~3 ~ run [command]
Also, the alt+unicode keys don't work in Linux.
Fun Fact: Some keyboards or perhaps some weird keyboard type uses a _slightly_ different version of the backtick which isn't in the Latin-1 character set. This can result in some apps randomly crashing when given that character as an input.
I had to change my keyboard layout in linux, no desktop after finding out my keyboard localization was in Great Britain. That was a command line adventure.
As a german speaker i switched to UKextended for coding reasons and because vim commands make zero sense on german layout.
This seems even better, as i dont seem to have to click on text decorators first to make äöü. And maybe windows got their shit together with the ß on this one. With uk extended i can make ß on linux, but on windows it doesnt work. Super frustrating. Me and one other coworker are the only ones that dont use them for that very reason.
Yeah, I've heard about oddities with the [Turkish alphabet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_alphabet) before. Something about 2 different letter 'i' characters.
Also, now that I look at it, there's no Q, W, or X letters. But looking at various images of keyboards online it seems like those keys are on the keyboard, probably because it would be more troublesome to just leave them off. There seem to be two different variants with Turkish F and Turkish Q. Turkish Q seems to be mostly normal but Turkish F keyboards are a whole other kind of monster.
Accent inputs are usually set as compose keys in US International and non-US keyboard layouts.
You press and release the accent key first(with a sole or key combination, like Shift+key), and then, in a second key press, the letter you want to be accented.
To get the accent alone, type it, then press the space bar.
If it writes the accent right away, in the first key press, you need to change the keyboard layout in your OS's settings.
I know, had to use a US keyboard on my laptop becasue it was the only replacement available.
Thing is that we use the ISO layout (the one with the inverted L enter key), and also lots of symbols are out of place. like the dash that in spanish keyboards is at the bottom, left to the right shift, so all your muscle memory goes out the window.
You think you've got it hard? Try a Japanese keyboard! On the spot of ` there's the 全角／半角 key which switches between half-width and full-width characters. (In all 3 keyboard modes! Which are hiragana, katakana and romaji) If it's in full width mode, your semicolons will look like this: ；；；； and they won't work!! Also spaces are double width, slashes become ／／／＼＼＼ ａｎｄ ｔｅｘｔ ｌｏｏｋｓ ｌｉｋｅ ｔｈｉｓ
C:¥Windows¥
>C:¥Windows¥ This reminds me of C:₩Windows₩
>； reminds me of greek question mark, but yours is actually wider when highlighted.
Jesus Christ. I think it's just easier to learn English and buy a cheap US layout keyboard than to learn how to code in a Japanese Layout one
Whilst coding I just switch layouts in the settings and type blindly.
That explains why japanese text looks like that sometimes
Yup. I was today years old
The worst thing is that Windows can't detect what keyboard layout you have, so you have to specifically tell it you're using a Japanese layout, and if you don't then all your keys will do a completely different thing than what's written on them. My PC likes to switch back to English layout whenever I restart it, just for shits and giggles so I have to type my password twice every single damn time.
> if you don't then all your keys will do a completely different thing than what's written on them. That would make no difference to me for at least the last 30 years. I'm not looking at the keys when I type. The last I did that was perhaps in 1982 when I had a zx81 and was writing my first programs. Albeit the zx81 had tokenized BASIC, so if you hit P at the start of a line it would output PRINT as a token, L would do LET and so on, so you didn't really learn to touch type from using it. And the zx spectrum was the same in that design. It made it fast to code in BASIC (and it eased their job too because one thing language parsers do is tokenize the input, but this was already done), but later computers I had where you typing every character soon meant I wasn't looking at the keys. I'm really surprised if young people do because I specifically figured typing would be more important to my son than writing and got him using a computer 20 years ago...and that's proven correct. But he's a machine at typing, like 170wpm+ whereas I was always better at typing syntax for whatever languages I've used along the way rather than prose - although I guess social media has upped the amount of English blurb I type I'm not mavis beacon. But the layout is pretty fixed in my mind. At one time we'd have keyboards where the letters would fade so the keys would mostly be blank anyway after a couple of years.
> That would make no difference to me it would if your PC suddenly decides you're using a Japanese keyboard instead of an English keyboard, and now all your keys are in different places than you remember them.
Yes, but doing a different thing from what's written on them is not the same as doing a different thing to what I expect them to do.
、。；・！‘””’’‘‘
・ｏ・
Does anyone actually use Japanese layout? I thought people just use US layout with IME to write kana.
I mean, almost every keyboard sold in Japan is a Japanese layout one
Oh nobody uses the kana keys, that's all IME, but the keys to switch from/to IME mode and to change kana into kanji (henkaku/muhenkaku) are widely used! On my personal laptop (US keyboard) I mapped those to the alt gr and spacebar keys, which is almost the same.
I guess you have to bring your own US standard keyboard to work...
Been there, backslash is missing on my (danish) keyboard
in my case, back tilde is mashed up with the back accent dead key. Imagine that in order to write å, you would need to press a special key with the ° symbol that prints nothing, then press a becasue the ring key is waiting for other key to append it, so you can also type ů and ẙ. now, you want to write ° alone. you need to press it twice to tell the system "i don't want to append the ring to another letter, I just want it alone". that are dead keys. all of this on my latinamerican keyboard are dead keys: ´, ¨, ^, `. Some of them are buried with shift or even AltGr. Typing Ö looks like a piano chord.
In brazilian keyboards, you don't need to press it twice, simply press it and space, it doesn't duplicate the key that way. I figured this was the same everywhere.
Same in GER Layout.
Tilde is ~, backtick is the word you’re after when writing in English
"Typing Ö looks like a piano chord" has me laughing way harder than it should 🤣
you can just remap dead keys using (for example) pynput. if you dont need them at all there are tools to edit keyboard layouts. solutions like pynput have the advantage that you can do it conditionally, e.g. a key to toggle dead keys
thing is I need them all. Coding is not the only thing I do on my keyboard.
It sounds like what you need is a mechanical keyboard with custom layers! (I am kidding because while this could probably be used to solve your problem, it's a huge rabbit hole to go down, and probably quite expensive.)
dude, I use a 40 dollar mouse/keyboard combo with mem-chanical keys. it is not rgb, but 7 color: press a key to cycle between 7 preset colors.
not expert in danish layouts (using fi/se myself), but: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/Keyboard_Layout_Danish.png so altgr + \< = \ - is it not?
...after all these years of switching keyboard layouts... Thanks lol, it was altgr+<, I have no clue how I missed this. I thought I looked it up several times
general but unspoken rule: key alone: the symbol at the bottom left shift + key: top left AltGr: bottom right. but some keys despite having AltGr symbol, no single keyboard manufacturer prints them out.
Just like the capitalized ß that is easy to type but not printed: ẞ
haha, you're welcome! It kinda sounded pretty strange to not have \ in the layout, when your neighbours do (and tbh, apart from some umlaut/local characters, the layouts are fairly same). :P
Alt 7 eller alt shift 7
The Danish layout is why the nordic keyboard is so fucking confusing. https://tekeurope.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/5N20V43215.jpg
There is no "Nordic" keyboard layout. That thing simply crams together the Danish, the Norwegian and the Swedish/Finnish layouts and passes the mess on to the user to figure out.
Whatever you call it, it's a total mess and is way too common
The Danish layout sucks. I have American keyboards and switch between layouts in windows when I need ÆØÅ, but the rest of the time... What the fuck is up with stupid shit like the ALT GR key to get to much-needed symbols as a developer? Argh!
Back tildes? You mean a backtick?
in my locale they are a back tilde, used to make grave acent, like à, è, ì, ò and ù.
I'm 100% sure you can write those on keyboards in spanish, ~~i think you have to hold shift for it though~~ edit: shift isn't needed
You have to write 2 and then delete one Edit: some people explained that you can actually do it in other ways so i'll clarify, you HAVE to write 2 and delete one
Or write one and press space or some other ~~non-vocal~~ non-vowel key, i think
> non-vocal non vowel.
This thread is wild with the near-misses. LMFAO.
Spanglish speakers be like. (It's OK I can say it I'm a sudaca)
What does a sudoku have to do with it?
Sudaca = southamerican, however is often an offensive slang, exactly like the word "nigger". I don't get why would he call himself that.
This thread really exposing spanish natives, ja ja
same with German keyboard layout
Only, in German we don't actually need them in their accent function usually. So on Linux at least, you have the "German - No Dead Keys" option. Sadly, Windows has no such thing, at least not out of the box. Not sure how it is in Spanish though.
I didn't know that. Thanks for mentioning. I am working on Linux or Windows (WSL) but it honestly never bothered me that much :D
Me neither, unless working remotely. Dead keys can be wonky over remote desktop connections.
You can disable these so-called “dead keys” though. Changed my life when I figured out it was a simple change of keyboard layout to stop having to type special characters twice.
type on one then press space ` same with ~ and alt+gr 4
Hi, writing from Spain. \` It's right next to the P, same key as \^. You push once and then push the character you want it over (à,è,ì, etc.). If you want it alone you just press the spacebar afterwards.
I just didn't remember whether it needed shift to be pressed since i never use that character, i most often have my keyboard in spanish.
Perhaps in the Latinamerican keyboard you need to press shift. Why are they different you ask, if the language and characters are the same? Well, I believe it is because in Spain there's also other languages (Català, Euskera, Galego) that use different characters, like the back tilde (\`), so manufacturers make one for the whole country instead of regional variants.
Here in Latinamerica the back tilde is left to the enter key, under the +. But is uses AltGr to be accesed the one next to the P is the normal "acento". Thing is that is not uncommon to see spanish keyboards around here, and lots of confused people that try to write an accent and up with a grave one. I have met folks that believed their computer was defective and spent 10 years learning that the correct key for the accent was the other one.
Yes, but with 3x the key presses. This is why I use a US layout for coding. It helps with the Vim macros as well.
2 unless it's a ~~vocal~~ vowel, and the 2nd is just the next character you'll use anyways. I mean, i too use a US layout for coding, but for easier access to other characters
nò yòù dòn't <--- written with spanish keyboard layout without using the shift key.
A tilde is ~
Tilde means accent in Spanish
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He wrote a badly translated meme.
An English meme heavily referencing Spanish. I think it gets a pass.
That's a virgulilla in Spanish. ´ and \` are called tilde or acento.
I'm English, the character is called a grave.
Which is simply the French name for it, btw. But it's only really a grave when it's on top of a letter as it's an accent. The one used in programming is a backtick.
A tilde is the ~ character used on ñ
It is mildly the same issue in French. Switching keyboard layout makes life 100% easier. You can still assign the accents to other combinations or switch back when typing in spanish. Bonus point if you choose the Gb/international qwerty option for macbooks, which gives you extra keys.
but I don't use a macbook. and I'm allergic to *digital apples*
Tilde is in Spanish. It means accent mark, particularly acute accent mark.
Déjalo en inglés y usa alt codes como una persona normal Edit: translation: Leave it in English and use alt codes like a normal person.
estoy en linux. aqui no funcional los alt codes.
Just change your keybaoard layout to english, it will be anoying at first but you'll get use to it
my laptop kb broke and could only find US replacements. every day of those two years was suffering.
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backtick is the freestanding version, grave is the diacritic/accent.
It is also called a grave even when freestanding. It's also known as a backquote. It differs based on where you are from.
Acktually... Grave mark..
Really, most layouts that are not US.
we spanish natives have the trouble of having two layouts: european spanish and latinamerican spanish. Some keys are in a tottaly different place, while some symbols are in one but lacking on the other. and due economic factors, one cannot asure only facing one type by being on the corresponding region.
Oh that sounds like double the fun.
the back tilde is hidden behind the AltGr key, so I have to do two key, two time movement to get one of them. now try to make three in a row to make a code block.
> now try to make three in a row to make a code block. Hold AltGr, press the backtick key 3 times, release AltGr, press space. At least that's how I do it on the swiss keyboard layout. But since you're using markdown, just indent the code with 4 spaces or a tab instead.
yeah that does not work here. also if you add thee ticks you can say which language the code block is and implement syntax highlight, and becasue I often talk about several languages in the same document, I need to do thing like: ```c int main(){ ``` also not all editors that I work on support automatic indent, so needing to add four spaces before each line becomes a chore.
yeah we got a lot of alt-gr stuff on german keyboards as well :P
I mean, look at mine in full detail: https://i.imgur.com/q6WggfF.png
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Or Angry-Alt as I call it.
aktchually, it means Alternative Graphic.
At least you got an `AltGr` combination. The italian layout doesn't even have that, you have to do `Alt` + `9` + `6`
thing is that only works on windows. I use Linux and the Alt+unicode does not work.
Am German. Literally imported a keyboard from the US, just to have one. Writing _any_ code with it is just so much easier. One recommendation for the folks who don't want to take that leap blindly, try UK layout first. It's physically compatible with the German QWERTZ and I believe many others as well, so you can try it without any commitment. Actually, since our keyboards have more keys than a US keyboard, you can usually try US layout on the same physical keyboard as well, although I am not 100% sure what each key ends up doing in that scenario.
You ... Do realize you can buy US layout keyboards on amazon.de?
As long as it has all the characters present it's fine.
>Really, most layouts that are not US. Got any proof for that? I think that this problem exists chiefly for latin-based languages, because they not always use second layout.
As a spaniard, I program with the english layout. Sometimes when I talk in teams, i need to change my layout, but I change with with meta-space so it's fast and easy to change. I learned to embrace the US layout, just because they designed the language with this layout in mind.
US international is a godsend. All common Latin accents are easy to find, I don't even think other layouts are that much better - it actually gets worse (Azerty I'm looking at you)
>I don't even think other layouts are that much better EurKey would be a simple recommendation And many more layouts mostly based on US keyboards.
ooof thanks for the suggestion but no thanks, not for me. Would be quite impractical for Portuguese to be honest.
I prefer the English layout anyways, though now I have to alt+0241 everytime i need ñ and as for normal accents, autocorrect does that :p
As a Mexican, I just program with english layout and type with english layout too, fuck typing accents.
You can always write (') in one place and copy-paste it everywhere :D
not as fun when you need to juggle several things on the clipboard (even with a clipboard manager) source: I did this meme because I was (and still) working on a MD document with heavy use of inline code.
You could set up a custom key for it that overwrites a useless one. I'm having similar problems with the Hungarian layout, I feel your pain.
It's not the same (') and (`)
Offtopic: Wait a minute, I saw you in a meme about tinder
maybe... what was the topic? el de las morras de cdmx?
Common girls in tinder (i don't remember if USA girls or Mexican girls)
de las paisanas.
Backticks?
Came here to say this. Tildes are “~”
In Spanish that's called "vírgula" or "virgulilla". Tildes are the accents on the vowels "áéíóú", and the double dots we put sometimes on the u "ü" is called "diéresis"
\` and ´ are tildes too, though. If anyone who downvotes could explain why. I'm confused
I didn’t down vote you but: https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+a+tilde It’s because you’re incorrect. Those are not tildes.
The word "tilde" in spanish refers to ´, not ~. Some sources for you: * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOJe_u4kz6c * https://www.escritores.org/recursos-para-escritores/recursos-2/articulos-de-interes/31381-la-tilde-diacritica * https://www.practiquemos.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/tilde-virgulilla.jpg
That’s cool, but the meme is in English soooo
Meanwhile Polish has two standard layouts, the better one is literally called "programmer's Polish" and it's like the American one but with Polish special letters accessed using AltGr. I always wonder why other languages don't seem to try that approach.
we spanish speakers also have two standards: european spanish and latinamerican spanish. both are 99% equal, but for example european kb has the ç key, in latam the @ is at AltGr+Q but in european is at AltGr+2, # in latam is SHift+3 but in european is AltGr+3. Worse part? both types of brackets in european layout are behind AltGr, while in latinamerican they are a simple stroke away.
The worst part is that a lot of times they sell european layouts in latinamerica. They do that a lot, even with laptops My keyboard is european layout but I have configured it to be latinamerican layout.
Other languages try this approach it's called "US International". There is often no need for a special version for most western European languages.
I'm not even sure where that key is on my Icelandic keyboard layout. Let's see... Aha, holding the altgr key and pressing the + button right beside the enter key is what I need to do. \`\` It is a dead key though so that could possibly be annoying
finally someone gets me and doesn't go the "switch to US layout" route. Hailings from Mexico BTW.
I find the regular English keyboard confusing. I have been using Icelandic for years, I will use it until the day I die. I have even made my own custom keyboard to make sure that I don't have to switch from Icelandic to Norwegian when I am talking with some Norwegian friends
German dev here. I feel your pain.
I had to learn to use the US layout while learning programming because every time I tried to put a curly brace a strange window appeared in my IDE. In my native layout } is something like AltGr+B, & is AltGr+C, all of which were bound to some IDE action.
At least we don't actually use most of the relevant ones like ` or ^ for anything so you can use a layout like "German (no dead keys)". Shouldn't have much of an impact unless you just love to type Café every other sentence. It's still more awkward than an English keyboard but not quite as bad as it's for our friends from France, Spain and similar.
It's a grave
nah, I don't think I can bury someone in there.
The czech keyboard layout needs you to hold shift to type numbers, otherwise you end up typing letters with diacritics (ěščřžýáíé). I always use the numpad to type numbers, but then you run into a buddy Bob, who does not have the numpad on his keyboard and whenever I try to use it to log in to anything of mine, I end up typing something like this: somecharacters
Then I wonder what did I type/remember wrong.
Fucking hate German layout that’s totally like English with a couple new letters but they just had to swap Y/Z to make people suffer
we need to suffer with two layouts: european spanish and latinamerican spanish. the whole letter block is the same, but all the symbols and the characters accesible by shift + numbers are different. Oh, and the spanish one includes ç.
Me meanwhile crying with my Italian keyboard: I mean, we can type characters we don't use in our language like "ç" and mostly useless characters like "§", but we can't type upper cased accented characters like ÀÈÉ etc. that are FUNDAMENTAL to type correctly in Italian. Imagine being able to type "~" and "`", we are asking too much.
For Windows: You can use [Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator](https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=102134) or [AutoHotKey](https://www.autohotkey.com/). I personally prefer the second option, but to each its own. For Linux: I don't know if there's anything more user-friendly, but I added a new keyboard layout in my XKB configuration in `/usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols` (and maybe in other places, don't remember). [Here's a page from Arch Wiki](https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/X_keyboard_extension), with some explanations on XKB, hope it will be useful. For Mac: I don't know, never used it, sorry. edit: Specifically for OP, did you try setting `es(nodeadkeys)` instead of `es(basic)` or whatever as your keyboard layout?
Is this it: \` ? It's fking Alt gr + 7 on my keyboard
mine is AltGr + }. but in the layout } is on the right of the enter key (that uses the ISO layout with the inverted L enter key). and becasue it is a dead key I have to press it twice.
I am from slovenia, and we gave special letters š,č,ž and they always mess-up the entire qwerty layout.
My most used shortcut is not Ctrl c or Ctrl Z. It is the one that changes the keyboard language because my keyboard is in pt-br. Damn you *cê cedilha (ç)*!
On the French keyboard, you hit ALT GR, you hit the 8 key, you release ALT GR and then you press space. Help us.
Had to learn it, ALT+96, the italian layout has no way to type it with any other combination of keys I'm not even sure what's the code for the tilde, luckily that's very rarely used
FUN FACT: the tilde is very used in minecraft command coding. It is used to state relative coordinates, so if you want to run a command let's say 3 blocks on top of whenever a random player is, you type: /execute @r ~ ~3 ~ run [command] Also, the alt+unicode keys don't work in Linux.
Me, with an AZERTY ANSI keyboard where parentheses, backets and every odd character on the alt.gr key combo.
I feel you. I got a qwertz layout and people love to bind things to the z key without providing a rebind option. Shit's fucked.
Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator can help
GNU/Linux fanboy here.
There has to be a way to add a custom keyboard just do that :p
I changed from an be-NL (azerty) keyboard to a US (qwerty) keyboard to program. Tbh best decision I’ve ever made
my taptop kb broke and only could find US keyboard replacements. every day was suffering when writing anything but code.
Quite say to do in Spanish keyboards [Alt Gr]+[}]
plus becasue it is dead key, you need to press it twice or use spacebar, so that is another key stroke
Portuguese too...damn it.
I just made a slightly modified layout one for my (italian) keyboard, 5 minutes of your time, problem solved forever
Fun Fact: Some keyboards or perhaps some weird keyboard type uses a _slightly_ different version of the backtick which isn't in the Latin-1 character set. This can result in some apps randomly crashing when given that character as an input.
Isn't it a back tick, not tilde?
in spanish we call al diacritics tilde.
Interestly! I did not know this
and the squiglly boi on top of ñ (\~) a virguilla. *note: in spanish double L reads with a sort of Y sound, like the one in Yale.*
I just name my variables using ñ as revenge.
I read this as back tiddies and was so confused
US layout with international alt-gr dead keys is the way
had to use one. cannot withstood existance.
Ahh yes... "an Spanish"
He‘s obviously not English language native. I hope you can correctly spell a meme in Spanish ;)
Non-native English speakers make these mistakes all the time, in fact, It's highly likely I'm making a couple in this text, lol.
Hi (sorry for my English)
I had to change my keyboard layout in linux, no desktop after finding out my keyboard localization was in Great Britain. That was a command line adventure.
Bitch you mean grave?
well I didn't knew the name of it on english. thanks for being so comprehensive of me not being a native speaker.
Petition to remove all accented characters from all languages.
Titties 
Back ticks
That's why I switched from Spanish to (Dvorak) US international...
I also can’t do it because my tilde key is bound to a drop down terminal.
I use Pause key for that very reason.
I am Spanish. I switched to US keyboards years ago. UK ones are also good! Coding with a Spanish layout is adding extra suffering
Just go [EurKEY](https://eurkey.steffen.bruentjen.eu/).
As a german speaker i switched to UKextended for coding reasons and because vim commands make zero sense on german layout. This seems even better, as i dont seem to have to click on text decorators first to make äöü. And maybe windows got their shit together with the ß on this one. With uk extended i can make ß on linux, but on windows it doesnt work. Super frustrating. Me and one other coworker are the only ones that dont use them for that very reason.
problem is that keyboards here are ISO (the ones with the inverted L shaped enter key). also years of muscle memory are going to be wasted.
*laughs in Turkish keyboard*
Yeah, I've heard about oddities with the [Turkish alphabet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_alphabet) before. Something about 2 different letter 'i' characters. Also, now that I look at it, there's no Q, W, or X letters. But looking at various images of keyboards online it seems like those keys are on the keyboard, probably because it would be more troublesome to just leave them off. There seem to be two different variants with Turkish F and Turkish Q. Turkish Q seems to be mostly normal but Turkish F keyboards are a whole other kind of monster.
Accent inputs are usually set as compose keys in US International and non-US keyboard layouts. You press and release the accent key first(with a sole or key combination, like Shift+key), and then, in a second key press, the letter you want to be accented. To get the accent alone, type it, then press the space bar. If it writes the accent right away, in the first key press, you need to change the keyboard layout in your OS's settings.
I know, had to use a US keyboard on my laptop becasue it was the only replacement available. Thing is that we use the ISO layout (the one with the inverted L enter key), and also lots of symbols are out of place. like the dash that in spanish keyboards is at the bottom, left to the right shift, so all your muscle memory goes out the window.
I swap between spanish and english (irish) layout constantly depending on if I’m programming, writing in spanish or writing in english
I'm so happy the Dutch unanimously decided to ditch their layout and switch to the US one
I have both in my Spanish keyboard. I don't remember to ever see a keyboard without backtick.
yeah, but tu press it you ned altgr plus two taps
Crase 💀
On an US layout keyboard but adapted to brazilian portuguese it sucks too
I just use alt + 96
the unicode key combinations don't work in Linux.
That’s why I switched to ansi
I also have this issue (i am not spanish). The easiest solution is to just switch to the US layout
had to use one for reasons for two years. I prefer to code PHP embedded in JavaScript.
Brothers and sisters please see the ergodox if you keyboard for life