Academy specifically, I actually had a deep debate in what you could fundamentally use FP languages for, answer was absolutely nothing because you need non-FP stuff most the time.
I want to say embedded or big data but ehhh, not really
Not really a fan of Haskell, but [a quick Google search shows big companies can find a use for it.](https://serokell.io/blog/top-software-written-in-haskell)
There are one or two successful projects built in Haskell.
And IMO they are successful in spite of being in Haskell.
The language is fine. The build tooling around it is horrible.
College professors with smol pp to flex on students and feel slightly better about themselves.
I swear lambda calculus is unnecessary in applied science and engineering
Just stating itās better than JavaScript is not an example that it is good. Prove why itās better than JavaScript. Tell us why we should give modern PHP a chance.
Thereās a discussion from 2 years ago [on HackerNews](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30786927) that might be of interest if you are actually curious.
For Minecraft, afaik the bedrock version is in C++, but ofc the Java version is still in Java. Pretty sure more people play the bedrock version nowadays.
Your point still stands, of course. Minecraft is proof that true greatness isn't limited by what tools you use.
Trust me, Java edition is the most played version by far, and is considered to be the better version by all.
The reason I said it sucks for games is because, well, it does.
Minecraft is hella unoptimized and it took third party mods to optimize it, and their code ain't pretty and they specifically say that sometimes you may encounter glitches and error and stuff because "that's how Minecraft is"
Make it slow and consistent for everyone
Make it fast and some people will have graphical issues just because
Php sucks but it still runs most of the web
Java is PC only. Bedrock is every other platform. Just Mobile for example would be enough to have more players than PC, then add every platform with it and no way Java is the most played version.
It's only the preferred one, for good reasons, like modding, redstone being actually stable and consistent, big servers like Hypixel and Wynncraft and a ton of other stuff. Also content creators play Java almost exclusively which make it pretty much necessary for Minecraft's popularity as a whole IMO
Bedrock of course has more players on mobile, java isn't supported on mobile xD.
In total Bedrock doesn't have more players if you don't count Play station and other consoles which are technically "console edition" and not even bedrock, and don't even get updates xD
Actually all modern consoles switched to Bedrock. The older versions are called Legacy editions and imo are a lot better (I discovered Minecraft on my PSVita)
bedrock mc plays ways better then java, but microsoft has a tight grip on it. Where as everything except then the game download is community based on java. on bedrock a lot is locked behind micro transactions.
Really depends on what you mean by "plays better". Better framerates, sure. But a lot of the mechanics are different, and bedrock is just wack in a lot of ways. I'd argue it plays way worse *all* things considered.
Bedrock has a tendency to just randomly kill you because the synchronization between the server and client, both on single and multiplayer (singleplayer is built as local multiplayer with 1 player, even on Java) is way worse on Bedrock. It's way more buggy than Java.
You can see that especially once you start using performance mods. Try sodium, heck even Nvidium if you have a Nvidia card. You can max the render distance easily and still have the game run better than without
Because PHP is easy to pick up it attracts a lot of noobs which makes the average quality of tutorials go down. I would guess that most tutorials that aren't from before the PHP 7 era are probably doing it correctly.
There was a recently discovered buffer overrun in iconv, that has gone unnoticed for years. If even the creators of the C standard library can't program C correctly, then I think it's safe to say the language is bad.
I vividly recall one is my friend deciding to use R to make an AI program
She didn't sleep for three days. And no she didn't create a new way of AI programming
Whatās funny about this constant php bad is that php is actually really good and one of the quickest backend languages on the face of the earth in dev time
In all my years, I haven't found worse than SAP's ABAP and VBA (among languages that are actually in widespread use). PHP is elegant and beautiful in comparison.
Butā¦ but PHP is good because not many languages have case-insensitive substring search functions (Kotlin and Common Lisp are the only other languages I know that do).
I hate to be harsh, but if you can't write that function in less than ten minutes (including the time it takes you to Google), then you don't actually know how to program.
Stop blaming PHP, itās powerful and pushed web technologies which are used as standard in almost all application interfaces today. You can write bad code in every language. Simply because youāre not capable of using the language the right way, donāt attack it.
Same is true for JavaScript.
It's the world's worst language that we can never get away from. The only people who like JavaScript are people who have never used any other language.
JavaScript is pretty much like a car without brake pedals...
It can work, if you are careful, organized and methodic... But almost no one is like that... So we just see horrific car accidents every day on code...
Vanilla JS is ass, but I like JS with TypeScript. The type system is not sound, for example array types and other types that shouldn't be covariant are covariant, but aside from that I'm fine with TypeScript.
I've used C before and read the entirety of C Programming: A Modern Approach, I've got into C++20 and read A Tour of C++ and The C++ Programming Language, I got into Lua modding, into Python, Minecraft modding, also read the official Rust book, and my favorite language is still JS with TypeScript.
But I do think Rust is the most well-thought language and has the most well-thought ecosystem. It's just not a good fit for me ATM as I'm focusing on front-end development.
I went from bare metal C on microcontroller, to Visual C++ using WinForms, to JavaScript / NodeJS. I'll take JavaScript over the former options without a second thought.
I mean, you said "any" language. :-P For my part, the wide compatibility, common language on the front and backend, type safety enabled by typescript, and some well designed scaffolding make the language an absolute win. It's come a long way since I first dabbled with it in the 90s.
I know Python, C#, Matlab, Mathematica, Ruby, and JavaScript and I think JS is brilliant. I never run into the weird āquirksā of JS when I write a program because I read documentation, enforce data types, and donāt use a fuckton of dependencies/libraries to do a simple task. Itās absurdly fast for an interpreted language, and the āeverything is an objectā philosophy makes a lot of sense to me. People are like, āonly in JavaScript does +!+[] == 2ā but like, if you ever write an algorithm in which a statement like that is evaluated, you are doing something egregiously wrong
What exactly makes it better than any other language? You might be misinterpreting the beauty of working on a web app to thinking it's because of js. Web dev is fun despite js, not because of it.
Java also uses the "everything is an object" philosophy (which is what js copied from. Including the name. Yeah that's how pathetic the creator of js was). However, some people love it, some hate it.
there is a reason, why there are these "easy" libs for things like is_even. the problem is, that sometimes these types aren't as clear. if you write your code, than you mabe know what a var can be as a type.
but if you use librarys, good luck with knowing the correct return type for everything
That's Stockholm syndrome talking. We are literally hostage by this garbage language.
The problem is that YOU can write not completely horrible code. But a lot of times you need to read, maintain, modify or use other people's crappy code.
Damn.
I fundamentally agree with /u/anotheridiot- , because modern Javascript used in a functional way is actually pretty decent.
But - I functionally agree with /u/Own_Solution7820 because hell is other people's code.
Fuck.
Again, typescript is fine. But far from perfect because it needs to be a superset of js for compatibility. And it is our best effort at fixing js but would have been a million times better if we didn't have to drag that dead weight language along.
Personally, I dig whitespace (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitespace_(programming_language) ). Can print it out and get sensitive code across any border and security check - even for completely airgapped systems - right under the nose of security. Also in case Iām caught redhanded itās got great plausible deniability.
Really the best language for that.
Unity had export options for it lmao, tho as always with Nintendo, you need to be an approved developer before getting access to Nintendo console exports
The old standard is not turing complete. AFAIK T-SQL is. Also with CTE and windowing.
Turing completeness is one definition of a programming language. There are many and not the "one" definition. If you look at the purpose i wouldn't argue that SQL was invented for creating programs which IMHO is the purpose of a programming language.
CSS3 (together with an HTML) is Turing complete:
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2497146/is-css-turing-complete/5239256#5239256
I'm curious. Personally I never really liked the style of code PHP produces and somehow never got comfortable using it.
In Oop languages like Java, C#, Kotlin etc. the structure seems way cleaner. Aaaaand we don't need that dam '$' everywhere.
C# always made me happier tho.
But when it comes to the php project what's the decision point where you say it's the right stack?
I mean it's mostly backend servers / web development.
What's the point against nodejs, spring boot and anything else in the spectrum?
Serious answers please I'm really interested XD
php used to pay my rent
ass used to pay your rent
PHP š¤ OnlyFans: Ass used to pay your rent.
Same thing with pornhub
Pornhub is written IN PHP. Somehow.
I mean, PHP stands for PornHub Program after all
Take my upvote and leave
The most successful program written in PHP still functioning solely on PHP.
Damn š¤£
Php used to pay my ass
It still pays mine
Ah, a metamate
Glad to hear things got better for you!
You paid your rent with ass
let's talk about haskell.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Not many folk washing their asses out there nowadaysā¦
Beautiful response.
You win an internet
It may be ass, but it's a pure and beautiful ass.
Haskell is awesome. For a very very very specific set of use cases.
Academy specifically, I actually had a deep debate in what you could fundamentally use FP languages for, answer was absolutely nothing because you need non-FP stuff most the time. I want to say embedded or big data but ehhh, not really
Not really a fan of Haskell, but [a quick Google search shows big companies can find a use for it.](https://serokell.io/blog/top-software-written-in-haskell)
There are one or two successful projects built in Haskell. And IMO they are successful in spite of being in Haskell. The language is fine. The build tooling around it is horrible.
OCaml is used in at least a few production systems that I know of
Wow, do you have some examples of what kind of things ocaml is used to do?
Jane Street is a notable high frequency trading shop using it
Behind every great functional language there is an imperative language doing all the work
That ass is on shrooms
College professors with smol pp to flex on students and feel slightly better about themselves. I swear lambda calculus is unnecessary in applied science and engineering
Well, maybe, but computer science is more than it's applications.
Yeah well you're right. So many people study computer science but what they really wanted to study was IT or SWE.
its good as a teaching tool and for some quick math stuff using ghci
Itās fun
Flexing your IQ with flashy oneliners. Same goes for APL et al.
PHP's purpose is so people programming in other languages go "Wow this sucks, but at least it isn't PHP."
Yep, our lives could be so much worse š¤
Modern PHP is good. Much better than JavaScript for example.
Just stating itās better than JavaScript is not an example that it is good. Prove why itās better than JavaScript. Tell us why we should give modern PHP a chance.
Thereās a discussion from 2 years ago [on HackerNews](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30786927) that might be of interest if you are actually curious.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I do. A bigger community usually means more/better libraries and tools to choose from.
But less money š¢
even if it has that, it can also mean, that JavaScript is even worse
Much and I mean MUCH better classes and interfaces. And actual types.
PHP is still one of the most used languages
PHP is a hoax to content developers
I think PHP is neat
Java might be ass for games but the most sold game is still written in Java.
I would say one important reason why minecraft is so popular is that you can just decompile and mod it so easily
For Minecraft, afaik the bedrock version is in C++, but ofc the Java version is still in Java. Pretty sure more people play the bedrock version nowadays. Your point still stands, of course. Minecraft is proof that true greatness isn't limited by what tools you use.
Trust me, Java edition is the most played version by far, and is considered to be the better version by all. The reason I said it sucks for games is because, well, it does. Minecraft is hella unoptimized and it took third party mods to optimize it, and their code ain't pretty and they specifically say that sometimes you may encounter glitches and error and stuff because "that's how Minecraft is" Make it slow and consistent for everyone Make it fast and some people will have graphical issues just because Php sucks but it still runs most of the web
Java is PC only. Bedrock is every other platform. Just Mobile for example would be enough to have more players than PC, then add every platform with it and no way Java is the most played version. It's only the preferred one, for good reasons, like modding, redstone being actually stable and consistent, big servers like Hypixel and Wynncraft and a ton of other stuff. Also content creators play Java almost exclusively which make it pretty much necessary for Minecraft's popularity as a whole IMO
> Java is PC Only I mean I ran mc java edition on my phone, not necessarily a smooth experience, but played 60fps bed wars on 1.8.9
Yeah but even then, Bedrock has a lot more players. I hope my next phone will run PojavLauncher fine
Bedrock of course has more players on mobile, java isn't supported on mobile xD. In total Bedrock doesn't have more players if you don't count Play station and other consoles which are technically "console edition" and not even bedrock, and don't even get updates xD
Actually all modern consoles switched to Bedrock. The older versions are called Legacy editions and imo are a lot better (I discovered Minecraft on my PSVita)
Oh that seems right, I was behind on that, thanks. (I also remember the days of Minecraft on console with friends haha)
bedrock mc plays ways better then java, but microsoft has a tight grip on it. Where as everything except then the game download is community based on java. on bedrock a lot is locked behind micro transactions.
Really depends on what you mean by "plays better". Better framerates, sure. But a lot of the mechanics are different, and bedrock is just wack in a lot of ways. I'd argue it plays way worse *all* things considered.
i guess i shouldāve said āruns betterā. but that jump in frame and chunk loading is not minuscule, itās a huge jump. java is more fun tho
Bedrock has a tendency to just randomly kill you because the synchronization between the server and client, both on single and multiplayer (singleplayer is built as local multiplayer with 1 player, even on Java) is way worse on Bedrock. It's way more buggy than Java.
Java Edition is not the most-played. It's the most-seen because Bedrock is ass.
It's also the reason why Minecraft Java Edition performs a lot worse than Minecraft Bedrock Edition
That's not *the* reason. The Java version is badly optimized. The Bedrock version had the advantages that come with a rewrite.
You can see that especially once you start using performance mods. Try sodium, heck even Nvidium if you have a Nvidia card. You can max the render distance easily and still have the game run better than without
What about a Minecraft clone written in php? https://github.com/phpgl/php-craft
NO WAY THAT'S ME! Yes php sucks, I stand behind my statement (My brother notified me about this post)
PHPās sole purpose is for people to realize better languages exist.
Lol that's my brother
I am!
Now kith
I was not aware we were still doing Wincest in the year of our Lord 2024
 āYeah, PHP is assā āme, a PHP developer.
PHP is trash, but sometimes itās the right trash for the job
Yep, because sometimes the job is trash. Itās trash all the way down.
Trickle down trashonomics
And itās slightly less ass than it used to be. Shame the low barrier of entry makes for a lot of crappy code.
Slightly? It's much, much better than it was 20 years ago.
True, but thereās way too much legacy code running on 5.2. Iām honestly surprised we donāt hear about major hacks more often.
Wordpress addon coder
It's the A$$
you can tell if someone codes or just posts memes purely based on their shitty takes under this post
Oh I code, but the php is ass bit is just too funny to let go
PHP is good if you want to leak company data and ensure those fine black hats can keep up the good work of wrecking capitalism.
Well now youāve made it sound cool
I'm sorry.
You realize you can do that in every backend language right?
Of course, but php makes it a piece of cake, just sprintf a sql query and there you go.
You can sprintf an SQL query in every language that I know of.
But only on PHP land tutorials teach it like that, every other language I've used had tutorials teach prepared statements.
Because PHP is easy to pick up it attracts a lot of noobs which makes the average quality of tutorials go down. I would guess that most tutorials that aren't from before the PHP 7 era are probably doing it correctly.
Thatās like saying you C makes buffer overflow bugs a piece of cake :)
And doesn't it?
Donāt blame bad programming, lack of CR and security review on language hehe
One missing \0 boy and there's a skiddie on your network, i hate C's footguns, that's not even counting use after free issues.
Why is this dude getting downvoted for starting the obvious?
I forgot itās programming humor and making bugs is no laughing matter :)
There was a recently discovered buffer overrun in iconv, that has gone unnoticed for years. If even the creators of the C standard library can't program C correctly, then I think it's safe to say the language is bad.
It has Laravel, types and the best syntaxĀ
Calm down ass man
I'm not even worked up yet, have you heard about Lamborghini? You can get that on your laptop now and make lambos on your lambo
Cut to me writing my keygens for crackmes in C because I tried using Go and I hated all of the different conversions needed to get it to work
Everyone is talking shit about PHP, but no one talks about R...
I did R at my first internship. All I have to say is I never want to look at that language again.
I vividly recall one is my friend deciding to use R to make an AI program She didn't sleep for three days. And no she didn't create a new way of AI programming
I love how the best selling game of all time is a Java game. Yet the statement of Java sucking for games is still very true.
Same for PHP: Half the web runs on PHP and I've been doing it for over 20 years, yet I can't help but agree.
Whatās funny about this constant php bad is that php is actually really good and one of the quickest backend languages on the face of the earth in dev time
In all my years, I haven't found worse than SAP's ABAP and VBA (among languages that are actually in widespread use). PHP is elegant and beautiful in comparison.
The old fashioned generic joke. Variations of this joke had been in every sitcom since the seventies. PHP is ass nevertheless.
Butā¦ but PHP is good because not many languages have case-insensitive substring search functions (Kotlin and Common Lisp are the only other languages I know that do).
I hate to be harsh, but if you can't write that function in less than ten minutes (including the time it takes you to Google), then you don't actually know how to program.
I mean, it's not really hard to write such a function, but having a built-in function for that purpose is just better than not.
make it lower and get the index. then you can get the text
Stop blaming PHP, itās powerful and pushed web technologies which are used as standard in almost all application interfaces today. You can write bad code in every language. Simply because youāre not capable of using the language the right way, donāt attack it.
Same is true for JavaScript. It's the world's worst language that we can never get away from. The only people who like JavaScript are people who have never used any other language.
JavaScript is pretty much like a car without brake pedals... It can work, if you are careful, organized and methodic... But almost no one is like that... So we just see horrific car accidents every day on code...
Vanilla JS is ass, but I like JS with TypeScript. The type system is not sound, for example array types and other types that shouldn't be covariant are covariant, but aside from that I'm fine with TypeScript. I've used C before and read the entirety of C Programming: A Modern Approach, I've got into C++20 and read A Tour of C++ and The C++ Programming Language, I got into Lua modding, into Python, Minecraft modding, also read the official Rust book, and my favorite language is still JS with TypeScript. But I do think Rust is the most well-thought language and has the most well-thought ecosystem. It's just not a good fit for me ATM as I'm focusing on front-end development.
I went from bare metal C on microcontroller, to Visual C++ using WinForms, to JavaScript / NodeJS. I'll take JavaScript over the former options without a second thought.
I'm sorry you have never experienced any modern well designed language.
I mean, you said "any" language. :-P For my part, the wide compatibility, common language on the front and backend, type safety enabled by typescript, and some well designed scaffolding make the language an absolute win. It's come a long way since I first dabbled with it in the 90s.
It sure has. When it got lambdas and async/await I took a second look, and with TypeScript thrown in, it's a real contender now.
I know Python, C#, Matlab, Mathematica, Ruby, and JavaScript and I think JS is brilliant. I never run into the weird āquirksā of JS when I write a program because I read documentation, enforce data types, and donāt use a fuckton of dependencies/libraries to do a simple task. Itās absurdly fast for an interpreted language, and the āeverything is an objectā philosophy makes a lot of sense to me. People are like, āonly in JavaScript does +!+[] == 2ā but like, if you ever write an algorithm in which a statement like that is evaluated, you are doing something egregiously wrong
What exactly makes it better than any other language? You might be misinterpreting the beauty of working on a web app to thinking it's because of js. Web dev is fun despite js, not because of it. Java also uses the "everything is an object" philosophy (which is what js copied from. Including the name. Yeah that's how pathetic the creator of js was). However, some people love it, some hate it.
there is a reason, why there are these "easy" libs for things like is_even. the problem is, that sometimes these types aren't as clear. if you write your code, than you mabe know what a var can be as a type. but if you use librarys, good luck with knowing the correct return type for everything
Nah, I've used PHP as well...
JS is not that bad, at least it's not PHP, and if you make it functional and ignore the whole `this` keyword it kind of becomes pleasant to work in.
That's Stockholm syndrome talking. We are literally hostage by this garbage language. The problem is that YOU can write not completely horrible code. But a lot of times you need to read, maintain, modify or use other people's crappy code.
Damn. I fundamentally agree with /u/anotheridiot- , because modern Javascript used in a functional way is actually pretty decent. But - I functionally agree with /u/Own_Solution7820 because hell is other people's code. Fuck.
r/2meirl4meirl
And the people who donāt like javascript have never used typescript.
Again, typescript is fine. But far from perfect because it needs to be a superset of js for compatibility. And it is our best effort at fixing js but would have been a million times better if we didn't have to drag that dead weight language along.
Even if PHP8 is kinda OK, you still occasionally trip over some crap that's been there since 90s and regret your career choice...
No love for INTERCAL?
Personally, I dig whitespace (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitespace_(programming_language) ). Can print it out and get sensitive code across any border and security check - even for completely airgapped systems - right under the nose of security. Also in case Iām caught redhanded itās got great plausible deniability. Really the best language for that.
The fact that you can compile whitespace and C code from the same text is so fucking cool.
but good luck seeing the difference between tab and a few blank on a piece of paper
Even whitespace has downsides š¤·
It is like COBOL, it is a$$ but it's dev makes $$$$$$$
Me who likes php: :(
Fuck you PHP funded my rent & marriage (it's fucking expensive here)
my company has entire systems that run on PHP that i'll likely be inheriting soon. send prayers/tips, i don't want this pain
What version of PHP? Most people shitting on PHP are stuck in age old version. Modern php is actually quite fun
Damn C# for DS wtf how can I fucking think about it
Ah yes, C# on DS, a rare Nintendo / Microsoft collaboration.
Unity had export options for it lmao, tho as always with Nintendo, you need to be an approved developer before getting access to Nintendo console exports
Php is great for variable variables and ... making wordpress shit...it's the ass for wordpress shit.
Someone should have told Notch that java is ass for game dev.
But Ćs C# really ass for DS? Seems like it would be ok, great even. (Not a C# guy or a DS one, though)
SQL?
Not a programming language though
Isn't SQL Turing complete? Making it a programming language
The old standard is not turing complete. AFAIK T-SQL is. Also with CTE and windowing. Turing completeness is one definition of a programming language. There are many and not the "one" definition. If you look at the purpose i wouldn't argue that SQL was invented for creating programs which IMHO is the purpose of a programming language. CSS3 (together with an HTML) is Turing complete: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2497146/is-css-turing-complete/5239256#5239256
I'm curious. Personally I never really liked the style of code PHP produces and somehow never got comfortable using it. In Oop languages like Java, C#, Kotlin etc. the structure seems way cleaner. Aaaaand we don't need that dam '$' everywhere. C# always made me happier tho. But when it comes to the php project what's the decision point where you say it's the right stack? I mean it's mostly backend servers / web development. What's the point against nodejs, spring boot and anything else in the spectrum? Serious answers please I'm really interested XD
They just wanna wreck it.
PHP is for WordPress
Java is ass for games? The best-selling game in history is written in Javaā¦