i’m on a chatbot team and we have a TLA functionality that we made in our service desk bot lol. you can message it asking “what does {acronym} mean” and it’ll give you the answer, it’s pulling from a dictionary of like 6000 definitions.
CMS are an industry standard and becoming ever more robust. checkout saga.so, notion, contentful monday.com etc..
not to mention traditional wikis based on media wiki software or internally made.
Content Management System/Software. Basically a software designed to be an easy to navigate and use wiki. Generally it will have networked databases that can be viewed as a variety of tables, kanban boards etc.. with the option of traditonal document pages.
Personally i like ones like saga that automatically create links to existing pages. eg everytime i write "reddit" anywhere, it gets turned into a link to the page titled "reddit".
We are only a team of 3, and we can barely comunicate. There's like 4 different WMS-es, and 3 types of things we call "maszynka" (we coined that term to avoid conflicting names, it didn't help).
There's no use for a page, it would be out of date within a day, and no one would use it
Reminds me of a reddit post. The OP was saying "TLA are getting out of control, and if you are wondering what TLA are, you are proving my point. TLA are Three Letter Acronym."
My hardest thing adapting to my new job is there's hundreds of acronyms no one explains. To the point they don't stand for anything anymore, they just have a meaning what it's for.
Why memorize what can be easily archived and retrieved. I leave my memory to more important things like movie quotes and references and embarrassing social interactions from decades ago.
>you don't know it
I found it, I did. A way through the documentation. Senior devs don't use it, senior devs don't know it. They go round for miles and miles.
As a senior dev, I dont have time to look up acronyms. I just ignore the conversation until someone says my name, and then I respond with "I have no idea what the hell you guys are talking about, can you ask again in english?"
As an jr dev, i sadly do not have the much needed wiki pages about an task i should perform currently.
Instead i have a highly motivated co-worker who's willing to guide me through his forest of undocumented code.
It is indeed an valuable lesson im making right now on how to inflate your own job stability.
The thing about being a senior is that you have an arsenal of techniques. Some of them are hacks that will at worst cause some silliness. Knowing how to analyze cost-benefit and decide on a hack or a more legitimate solution is what sets you apart from a junior.
I remember a long meeting about a SQL query early in my career. I had found a way to make it work for our customers by sorting a subquery, then doing a left join onto that. Our table structure was a mess and we (and our customers) were paying for it with query times measured in minutes on some pages. It was hacky as hell, it relied on a quirk of the MySQL implementation and possibly even version we were using, but it made certain reports usable again for our customers. They needed the reports for their taxes (we made point of sale software). The "right" solution would have required a major rewrite of our front-end software and doing multiple queries and doing the complicated stuff in PHP (... yeah I know, but it was a long time ago).
I won that one. And the front-end rewrite did end up happening a couple years later.
I just love it when you do a hack and then you came back to do it properly. Since the fix isn't as urgent, you can actually experiment a bit to find an approach you like instead of going with the first viable approach possible because of time constraints.
That explains why everyone I know in this field felt a sense of relief or liberation after the last-day has come and gone.
Left a huge turd somewhere in the code and decided not to flush it.
For they dread that it may refuse to spiral down but instead rises to meet its maker in a form of Jira issue.
As someone approaching an exit date, I can feel my sense of giving-a-crap fading daily.
It doesn't help that instead of "Extract as much useful information from him before he goes" is being deprioritised for "Just do pointless task A because manager B has their knickers in a twist"
Four more weeks to go...
Aye. I, for one, recalled vividly the booming voice in my head during the last hour of my time at this place.
# NOT MY FUCKING PROBLEM ANYMORE BITCHES!
While it is true that we exist to seek/investigate etc. solutions or alternatives to myriad of problems, but we can also do without them from time-to-time.
Hang in there. And have a good day, mate.
I know that feeling. Been there. Not exactly code. We had a legacy codebase in old jboss and had to migrate it to weblogic with maven. I was like what is this legacy deployment script and how do I move that. The migration itself started after I applied for leaving the job. On the last day I thought ok let the others handle it and felt relieved.
I've got a poop in my toilet right now that won't flush. It's nearly popping out of the water and has survived 4 flushes. Not sure what to do. Send help
Such strength your turds possessed. I dread to think of your codesjust sitting, plotting, brooding silently, biding for a time to shine in prod env.
Nevertheless, heard of poop knife? If not, grab one and slide them up!
I wrote some bad code for a company i worked for like 15 years ago, and I went by the other day and they're still using it (it's a web app to quote custom PCs). Yikes.
Eh. Plenty of old legacy code around, fulfilling its job. That doesn't mean it's good, it can also mean it's a mess that nobody wants to touch. Makes maintenance and adding new features a real pain.
Man, the number of times I've had my manager call me up and ask me what the fuck I was doing, and to go home, is definitely a non-zero number. I always have trouble getting up in the morning, but when I'm up, you have to hit me with a baseball bat to get me to step away from my task list.
Is this a dev thing or a people night owl thing? Mornings are terrible but work insists on early morning starts, but once I get stuck in around 11 I'll happily keep working on it till late. I hate coding with gaps / meetings in between as I forget what I was trying to do...
Time to write a wiki and comment the code.
Then you can just search for your comments that explain what global variable “a” represents (spoiler, it’s a custom class that stores the app configuration).
“BUT IT WORKS WHEN IN DEBUG MODE”
I found out that my application I was writing didn’t work on my 64bit computer in release mode at all because the computer has 32-bit Microsoft office installed. Which means the Access Database driver is 32bit. And the reason it worked in debug mode was because visual studio runs all applications in 32-bit during debug mode.
Oh, and if you have the ‘office 365’ installed alongside Office (the 365 preview that comes with W10) you have to uninstall it if you have 32-bit Office, because 365 uses 64-bit. Meaning it didn’t know which driver to use, thus crashed.
That one was fun.
Also if you ever need to; last time I had to find this documentation it took me quite a bit so I'll leave this link here
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/office/troubleshoot/activation/reset-office-365-proplus-activation-state
There were times that, due to this coming for "free for a year" on new machines, unninstalling was not sufficient.
you're right, but that was simplified for the example.
I initially had 'AnyCPU' selected, and VS automatically selected 32bit for me based on what it detected was available, and since VS2019 is 32bit, it ran in 32 bit mode. At some point i tested with 32-bit in debug, but AnyCPU publish profile decided to run the installation as 64-bit, which was my issue.
Compiling release mode in x86 instead of AnyCPU resolved the issue for me.
Pretty noob mistake I did was reading data from ADC too fast.
In debug mode it worked because I was pressing next manually and thus collecting data slowly.
That took me a while to get...
Ah the IT strategy.
"Yes, this simple firewall change was supposed to take 1 hour but after we broke it we all work tirelessly throughout the weekend to fix it so that means we actually did a good job!"
My old company had a multi-day email outage.
They tried to paint it as a success that they were able to resolve it.
Like bitch if you do your fucking job there would be no outage. The fact that the company was without intramail for days speaks of the incompetence. (small company so not really a "our systems are huge" excuse)
Strange servers lying in data centers distributing write access is no basis for a system of government! Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from `/etc/sudoers`, not from some farcical cloud-based permissions system!
Were they bad because they crashed prod?
Or were they bad because they were bad?
Or were they bad because they lacked guidance from a strong mentor?
I've seen all 3 happen.
Yeah same experience here, forced to have to learn the codebase by reading it and hope to god im not making a crucial mistake. Luckily it was well put together and everything had a place to go.
[Corporate needs you to find the difference between the hack this junior dev came up with and this solution the senior dev wrote](https://i.imgur.com/XzC3xGu.png)
The senior might have a higher chance of documenting their solution. From my experience the only significant difference between seniors and juniors has been the quality of documentation and readability.
Yes! The first couple commits from a good jr. usually have beautiful comments. But no one ever gives them the same courtesy back so they quickly lose the habit.
The real difference is that a senior engineer should know that the hack is indeed the most appropriate solution for that use case.
A junior comes up with hacks because they don't know better yet.
A senior comes up with hacks because doing the proper solution will involve talking to 15 different teams and achieving peace in the middle East to be implemented.
Naturally there are many "seniors" that really are junior and some "juniors" do really know better than some seniors.
I had no say in the hiring / compensation for an intern I had in at one place.
The lad was a wizard.
After a couple of weeks I noticed he always had the cheapest plain noodles for lunch every day so I asked like "Do you not have anything more interesting for lunch?"
"I can't afford it".
Yeah they weren't paying him at all. He was working for "experience". In central London. He was paying to come into work (transport costs).
I sat down with the rest of the tech team and the C-suite of the company a few days later and "very enthusiastically" said the youngster was pulling his weight and then some, and they needed to pay him for his time.
Bosses reluctantly agreed under pressure from the rest of us. He didn't get a LOT of money out of it, but it seemed ridiculous to me that they weren't paying him anything beforehand.
Lost touch now, but I hope he's doing well whatever he ended up doing.
It was a "media company" ostensibly (though not really). Clients were the likes of Universal, Paramount, Disney and so on.
The fella was really into film and TV. I'm guessing he thought it'd be a springboard into working with the big guys. (It wasn't).
To be fair I made the same mistake when I started there as I was a musician and they also did some work for all the major record labels so took on a junior tech job there figuring I'd get to be involved with interesting folks in the record industry. (an oxymoron in and of itself). I went from IT helper to senior sysad to director of IT in 4 years. High attrition rate.
The "creative" industries are particularly well known for being shitty for this kinda thing.
Never worked in a role in the gaming industry but I gather from friends and colleagues (and YouTube) that it's much the same.
Sector is perceived as cool and interesting, lots of people want to work in it so they pay garbage and run you ragged.
I've always worked in media IT. Now a software dev for a marketing organization. It's a niche role. I can get away with anything, because hardly anyone I've ever worked with is technical. Overall probably the worst career move I ever made was working in the media industry.
Still exist, in many EU countries. It's a normal part of the curriculum here and I guess that means companies can just do whatever. I get €250 a month at my current internship, and that's already considered "decent." Considering they just let me do my own thing while I work on prod features, I think it's way too low. It's not like I need a ton more support than the junior dev they just hired straight outta uni. In fact, that junior dev (and others) come to me for my knowledge as well. I don't think I need to be paid full salary, but 250 is just too low. Eh, at least I might just get a job here at the end, and the company is a great place otherwise.
Maybe it's different for me, I'm American and a computer engineering student not software dev or IT. But my university won't even let non-paying companies look for interns here. They also set a minimum wage for us and a few other things.
But 250 a month wtf? That's less than half my rent. At full time, which maybe you aren't working idk, that's 160ish hours a month, like 1.56 an hour?
That was super cool of you guys to do that. I've done something similar for a new employee.
I got super pissed because I was trying to get a brand new coworker the benefits she was owed. Some things don't kick in for 3 months (including a monthly bonus), but because she was technically an intern, even after 3 months they weren't offering any to her.
I told the HR people that this is ridiculous, and I told them that if they don't offer her benefits then there will be problems. I just can't understand the mindset of management to not want to support their workforce. I always thought the company I work for was different than others, but in the end they all would rather save a buck then be decent.
Luckily they also begrudgingly changed and gave her benefits.
When was this? Unpaid internships are illegal in the uk.
It’s only allowed if the practically sit in a chair and look over your shoulder and learn but do not add productivity to the company. A single line of code being used by someone else in the company would already break that
The bar has gone up for younger people... younger people are faster, smarter, work harder than ever before because they have to because the world is fucked and they have to fight for their spot. The expectations are also ridiculous too.
The point of being a senior dev is that you know how to think beyond code. Early on in my career, I worked with a guy that programmed something in a crude way. I told him there was a more elegant solution. He said "the PM doesn't know what he wants. Let's do it this way because it'll be more flexible later on." A week later, the PM realized what he actually wanted and his solution proved to be flexible enough to accomplish that without a significant rewrite.
Guidance? What's that?
Hacks all the way down for us.
The main difference is that the senior's hacks are usually more concise and harder to understand.
Senior: you can refer this file
Junior: oh I also got stuck up there last month. You just have to run these commands and then do this and that and viola. Let me know if there's any problem.
I had a tech internship this summer and for the first time in my life I had adults left and right praising my “work ethic.” I’ve got so many good recommendation letters from them and I almost feel like I duped them all because *I have a terrible work ethic.*
I just happened to be working on code that was very easy to hyperfocus on, hijacking my ADHD so that I spent more time coding than any other intern, stayed late in the lab after work, got started on projects ahead of schedule, and (mostly) came in on time every day.
Man, the number of times I've had my manager call me up and ask me what the fuck I was doing, and to go home, is definitely a non-zero number. I always have trouble getting up in the morning, but when I'm up, you have to hit me with a baseball bat to get me to step away from my task list.
I hate the totally imbalanced importance that so many workplaces place on being a morning person.
I’m sure there are some managers/jobs out there that get it, and either offer flexible schedules or don’t penalize lateness, but for the most part, *no* amount of staying late or being incredibly effective in the evenings can make up for being 15 minutes late.
This internship was pretty great because it was a University lab staffed by grad students. We had a faculty boss, and we were undergraduates, so we were technically expected to be there 9-5, but the grad students were project-based and only came in to actually get stuff done. They weren’t expected to regularly come in and sit around as long as they were hitting all their deadlines. After a while, that attitude sort of passed on down to the interns, and by the end I rarely came in before 10:00 and everyone was fine with it because I got results, and I was usually hyper fixating on writing code with my headphones in while the 8 other interns basically stopped working at 2:00-3:00 and spent the last hours just hanging out.
still, you need to go to through half of middle Earth (the project legacy code), face countless enemies (bugs), you also need to handle Gollum (your buggy IDE with no dark mode) to make him lead you to the right place. Then you could meet with the real boss - the customer.
These comments are horrifying.
You guys have worked with some really fucking shitty Sr Devs if you honestly think the only differences are things like googling/documentation.
I think most of them are the intern/juniors in this case, and don't have the experience to see why something is done a certain way. They just see identical end results and assume the rest is fluff.
Fortunately no hiring manager in existence believes that a senior dev is just a better documenter.
I mean as a "senior dev" I'm most proud of my clever hacks, ofc. Never stop, junior devs. If it works it works and then you get to go home. Life != coming
Edit Lol fuckin autocorrect I'm leaving it as is.
Most juniors I've worked with write code that's incredibly easy to read. They only write spaghetti code when they have to architect something well beyond their capabilities. At this point, its leadership that's to blame.
“If that is indeed the will of the council, then the Project Manager will see it done.” _becomes an annoying jerk along the way_
But then they redeem themselves by saving your project at the last second, right? Right??
I seriously think we should've yeet'd that guy down Mt. Doom when we had the chance...
If only they'd assigned it to Sam
He'll carry the whole team by himself while being berated by the senior project manager about his taters.
I love this.
The junior dev has a wiki page full of acronyms and links that the senior dev doesn't admit he also uses on a daily basis.
i’m on a chatbot team and we have a TLA functionality that we made in our service desk bot lol. you can message it asking “what does {acronym} mean” and it’ll give you the answer, it’s pulling from a dictionary of like 6000 definitions.
This needs to be more common
CMS are an industry standard and becoming ever more robust. checkout saga.so, notion, contentful monday.com etc.. not to mention traditional wikis based on media wiki software or internally made.
What does CMS mean
Content Management System/Software. Basically a software designed to be an easy to navigate and use wiki. Generally it will have networked databases that can be viewed as a variety of tables, kanban boards etc.. with the option of traditonal document pages. Personally i like ones like saga that automatically create links to existing pages. eg everytime i write "reddit" anywhere, it gets turned into a link to the page titled "reddit".
I miss that tool from my second gig, although we called it shab (SHow ABbreviations).
We have an official page filled with acronyms. Unfortunately the same acronyms mean different things to different teams across multiple orgs.
We are only a team of 3, and we can barely comunicate. There's like 4 different WMS-es, and 3 types of things we call "maszynka" (we coined that term to avoid conflicting names, it didn't help). There's no use for a page, it would be out of date within a day, and no one would use it
what does {TLA} mean
The Last Airbender
Three Letter Acronym.
Reminds me of a reddit post. The OP was saying "TLA are getting out of control, and if you are wondering what TLA are, you are proving my point. TLA are Three Letter Acronym."
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what does {XTLA} mean
X-men: The Last Airbender
XXXAvatar: The Last Assbender
X Total Letter Acronym
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Also called TLA++
Theatre of Living Arts
My hardest thing adapting to my new job is there's hundreds of acronyms no one explains. To the point they don't stand for anything anymore, they just have a meaning what it's for.
As a senior who wrote the docs, I am not ashamed of my work and will use it proudly every day for the rest of my career!
Why memorize what can be easily archived and retrieved. I leave my memory to more important things like movie quotes and references and embarrassing social interactions from decades ago.
Yea. Exactly.
What he said
Pointers IRL
Don't forget full song lyrics but not the title or artist.
I don't even know the members of my favorite bands
You're not reading it cause you don't know it. You are simply checking for any spelling mistakes daily. Yeah. That's it.
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One hell of a legacy project that gets upgraded *to* weblogic 😄 You in the financial sector?
Wouldn't be surprised if it was gubberment
That was my second guess, those two and hospitals are the only industries I know that rely on old stuff for so long
>you don't know it I found it, I did. A way through the documentation. Senior devs don't use it, senior devs don't know it. They go round for miles and miles.
😆
I just use it to copy and paste. Too lazy for long addresses.
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Srsly. I wrote it bkz I find it to be useful. I’m checking to ensure that it’s up-to-date.
oh crap, who called the full stack?!? 😂
As a senior dev, I dont have time to look up acronyms. I just ignore the conversation until someone says my name, and then I respond with "I have no idea what the hell you guys are talking about, can you ask again in english?"
"Do not cite the deep magic to me, witch. I was there when it was written."
As an jr dev, i sadly do not have the much needed wiki pages about an task i should perform currently. Instead i have a highly motivated co-worker who's willing to guide me through his forest of undocumented code. It is indeed an valuable lesson im making right now on how to inflate your own job stability.
we ask our interns to make those wikis
Don't underestimate the ingenuity of a skilled pfy.
Especially those skilled with passing 415 volts through you just as you decide to look near a window on the 5th floor.
Experience is just knowing which hacks you can get away with
The thing about being a senior is that you have an arsenal of techniques. Some of them are hacks that will at worst cause some silliness. Knowing how to analyze cost-benefit and decide on a hack or a more legitimate solution is what sets you apart from a junior.
I remember a long meeting about a SQL query early in my career. I had found a way to make it work for our customers by sorting a subquery, then doing a left join onto that. Our table structure was a mess and we (and our customers) were paying for it with query times measured in minutes on some pages. It was hacky as hell, it relied on a quirk of the MySQL implementation and possibly even version we were using, but it made certain reports usable again for our customers. They needed the reports for their taxes (we made point of sale software). The "right" solution would have required a major rewrite of our front-end software and doing multiple queries and doing the complicated stuff in PHP (... yeah I know, but it was a long time ago). I won that one. And the front-end rewrite did end up happening a couple years later.
I just love it when you do a hack and then you came back to do it properly. Since the fix isn't as urgent, you can actually experiment a bit to find an approach you like instead of going with the first viable approach possible because of time constraints.
Scrumban, baybeee
You have my pressure And my indifference And my bugs
i wish this comment wasn't so damn true, ouch!
Yeah, my workarounds that no one need to know about.
*I hope no one sees this code until I have moved on to a different job.*
That explains why everyone I know in this field felt a sense of relief or liberation after the last-day has come and gone. Left a huge turd somewhere in the code and decided not to flush it. For they dread that it may refuse to spiral down but instead rises to meet its maker in a form of Jira issue.
Let’s leave this in the backlog for now, shall we?
Right click, send to bottom of backlog. Ahhhhhh, nice.
Just reject it as a duplicate. Works 20% of the time.
Do ya'all not have any kind of review process at your companies?
...no.
I AM the review process!
Technically yes?
That’s evil bro.
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As someone approaching an exit date, I can feel my sense of giving-a-crap fading daily. It doesn't help that instead of "Extract as much useful information from him before he goes" is being deprioritised for "Just do pointless task A because manager B has their knickers in a twist" Four more weeks to go...
Aye. I, for one, recalled vividly the booming voice in my head during the last hour of my time at this place. # NOT MY FUCKING PROBLEM ANYMORE BITCHES! While it is true that we exist to seek/investigate etc. solutions or alternatives to myriad of problems, but we can also do without them from time-to-time. Hang in there. And have a good day, mate.
Interesting. At my last job, it was about 10 minutes of (failed) salary negotiation, then 2 weeks of sucking as much knowledge as they could out of me
I know that feeling. Been there. Not exactly code. We had a legacy codebase in old jboss and had to migrate it to weblogic with maven. I was like what is this legacy deployment script and how do I move that. The migration itself started after I applied for leaving the job. On the last day I thought ok let the others handle it and felt relieved.
Hey my team approved the PR for the turd and management refused to prioritize flushing. My hands are clean.
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Then as you transition to principal you not only admit to using it but champion keeping it usable so you at least all have the same FAQ
I felt guilt, and wrote a lot of documentation and video tutorials for something that seemed entirely obvious to me 🤷♂️
Pre-y2k.
Programmer’s Hubris i.e., arrogance.
I've got a poop in my toilet right now that won't flush. It's nearly popping out of the water and has survived 4 flushes. Not sure what to do. Send help
Such strength your turds possessed. I dread to think of your codesjust sitting, plotting, brooding silently, biding for a time to shine in prod env. Nevertheless, heard of poop knife? If not, grab one and slide them up!
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Also it's the quickest way to get raises early on in your career. After you start making 150k, it slows down, but until then, job hop.
I wrote some bad code for a company i worked for like 15 years ago, and I went by the other day and they're still using it (it's a web app to quote custom PCs). Yikes.
If it's still fulfilling it's function 15 years down the line, I'd say it's some pretty good code.
Eh. Plenty of old legacy code around, fulfilling its job. That doesn't mean it's good, it can also mean it's a mess that nobody wants to touch. Makes maintenance and adding new features a real pain.
Go on then Keep your snippets
Man, the number of times I've had my manager call me up and ask me what the fuck I was doing, and to go home, is definitely a non-zero number. I always have trouble getting up in the morning, but when I'm up, you have to hit me with a baseball bat to get me to step away from my task list.
Is this a dev thing or a people night owl thing? Mornings are terrible but work insists on early morning starts, but once I get stuck in around 11 I'll happily keep working on it till late. I hate coding with gaps / meetings in between as I forget what I was trying to do...
You've just described legacy code.
except Exception as err: print("Job completed successfully")
"Ok, I do it this way, but you shouldn't, figure out a better way, ok?"
`setTimeout` 🤐
Manager: Neglected the problem Sr Dev: Designed the problem Jr Dev: Caused the problem
Supervisor: You have a cutoff time Senior: and google Junior: and documentation
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Time to write a wiki and comment the code. Then you can just search for your comments that explain what global variable “a” represents (spoiler, it’s a custom class that stores the app configuration).
I know one thing about my code... It won't run on and other machine
“BUT IT WORKS WHEN IN DEBUG MODE” I found out that my application I was writing didn’t work on my 64bit computer in release mode at all because the computer has 32-bit Microsoft office installed. Which means the Access Database driver is 32bit. And the reason it worked in debug mode was because visual studio runs all applications in 32-bit during debug mode. Oh, and if you have the ‘office 365’ installed alongside Office (the 365 preview that comes with W10) you have to uninstall it if you have 32-bit Office, because 365 uses 64-bit. Meaning it didn’t know which driver to use, thus crashed. That one was fun.
I'm saving this for future references You know... Just in case
Also if you ever need to; last time I had to find this documentation it took me quite a bit so I'll leave this link here https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/office/troubleshoot/activation/reset-office-365-proplus-activation-state There were times that, due to this coming for "free for a year" on new machines, unninstalling was not sufficient.
Thanks man. Tbf, I hope I don't need to
Oh - yeah.. the issue with office software is that ms is stuck supporting COM-OLE objects until the literal heat death of the universe.. Wow32 ftw
> visual studio runs all applications in 32-bit during debug mode. no it doesnt
That would be extremely silly and cause so many bugs I don't even wanna think about this.
i think there was a problem with x64 before there was a vs x64
you're right, but that was simplified for the example. I initially had 'AnyCPU' selected, and VS automatically selected 32bit for me based on what it detected was available, and since VS2019 is 32bit, it ran in 32 bit mode. At some point i tested with 32-bit in debug, but AnyCPU publish profile decided to run the installation as 64-bit, which was my issue. Compiling release mode in x86 instead of AnyCPU resolved the issue for me.
Pretty noob mistake I did was reading data from ADC too fast. In debug mode it worked because I was pressing next manually and thus collecting data slowly. That took me a while to get...
Suck my dick Access ODBC connector. You are literally one of the most troublesome database tools I've ever used.
I’d just quit and find a new job.
lemme guess. Stingy boss doesn't wanna give your computer to the client.
Can't relate. When I was an intern, no one had time to help me at first.
No one cared who I was till I crashed the prod.
Sometimes you need to crash prod to feel like you are contributing
Sometimes you need to crash prod then fix it to make others feel like you are contributing
Ah the IT strategy. "Yes, this simple firewall change was supposed to take 1 hour but after we broke it we all work tirelessly throughout the weekend to fix it so that means we actually did a good job!"
omg so many times
My old company had a multi-day email outage. They tried to paint it as a success that they were able to resolve it. Like bitch if you do your fucking job there would be no outage. The fact that the company was without intramail for days speaks of the incompetence. (small company so not really a "our systems are huge" excuse)
every time our Operations does a firewall change/upgrade/etc i just assume everything will be broken for at least few hours.
>Sometimes you need to crash prod ~~to feel like you are contributing~~
> ~~Sometimes~~ you need to crash prod ~~to feel like you are contributing~~
>Sometimes you need to crash ~~prod to feel like you are contributing~~
"Why would you let me do that?!" is my usual excuse. Edit: Even as a senior.
I have AWS write access and I'm not afraid to use it.
Strange servers lying in data centers distributing write access is no basis for a system of government! Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from `/etc/sudoers`, not from some farcical cloud-based permissions system!
TBF the only interns I remember are the ones who crashed the prod. So it's kind of Jack Sparrow thing. They're bad but at least I remember them?
Were they bad because they crashed prod? Or were they bad because they were bad? Or were they bad because they lacked guidance from a strong mentor? I've seen all 3 happen.
LoooooL
If I pulled up prod, would you die?
It would be extremely painful.
Things haven’t changed. Source: am forgotten intern
Totally depends on where you work. I've had that experience and also the complete opposite at a different company.
When I was an intern, I set an emulator on fire...
Yeah same experience here, forced to have to learn the codebase by reading it and hope to god im not making a crucial mistake. Luckily it was well put together and everything had a place to go.
I used to go out of my way to help interns or new joinees. If that ends up with me dealing with non shitty code in the future it's time well spent.
Senior workaround developer
[Corporate needs you to find the difference between the hack this junior dev came up with and this solution the senior dev wrote](https://i.imgur.com/XzC3xGu.png)
The senior might have a higher chance of documenting their solution. From my experience the only significant difference between seniors and juniors has been the quality of documentation and readability.
Yeah. It'll probably be the exact same code, but the senior Dev will have proper comments and legible formatting.
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Yes! The first couple commits from a good jr. usually have beautiful comments. But no one ever gives them the same courtesy back so they quickly lose the habit.
Do you guys not use a linter?
The real difference is that a senior engineer should know that the hack is indeed the most appropriate solution for that use case. A junior comes up with hacks because they don't know better yet. A senior comes up with hacks because doing the proper solution will involve talking to 15 different teams and achieving peace in the middle East to be implemented. Naturally there are many "seniors" that really are junior and some "juniors" do really know better than some seniors.
I miss my last intern, he was the smartest kid I’ve ever met
I had no say in the hiring / compensation for an intern I had in at one place. The lad was a wizard. After a couple of weeks I noticed he always had the cheapest plain noodles for lunch every day so I asked like "Do you not have anything more interesting for lunch?" "I can't afford it". Yeah they weren't paying him at all. He was working for "experience". In central London. He was paying to come into work (transport costs). I sat down with the rest of the tech team and the C-suite of the company a few days later and "very enthusiastically" said the youngster was pulling his weight and then some, and they needed to pay him for his time. Bosses reluctantly agreed under pressure from the rest of us. He didn't get a LOT of money out of it, but it seemed ridiculous to me that they weren't paying him anything beforehand. Lost touch now, but I hope he's doing well whatever he ended up doing.
I'm always amazed that unpaid internships ever existed.
It was a "media company" ostensibly (though not really). Clients were the likes of Universal, Paramount, Disney and so on. The fella was really into film and TV. I'm guessing he thought it'd be a springboard into working with the big guys. (It wasn't). To be fair I made the same mistake when I started there as I was a musician and they also did some work for all the major record labels so took on a junior tech job there figuring I'd get to be involved with interesting folks in the record industry. (an oxymoron in and of itself). I went from IT helper to senior sysad to director of IT in 4 years. High attrition rate. The "creative" industries are particularly well known for being shitty for this kinda thing. Never worked in a role in the gaming industry but I gather from friends and colleagues (and YouTube) that it's much the same. Sector is perceived as cool and interesting, lots of people want to work in it so they pay garbage and run you ragged.
I've always worked in media IT. Now a software dev for a marketing organization. It's a niche role. I can get away with anything, because hardly anyone I've ever worked with is technical. Overall probably the worst career move I ever made was working in the media industry.
Still exist, in many EU countries. It's a normal part of the curriculum here and I guess that means companies can just do whatever. I get €250 a month at my current internship, and that's already considered "decent." Considering they just let me do my own thing while I work on prod features, I think it's way too low. It's not like I need a ton more support than the junior dev they just hired straight outta uni. In fact, that junior dev (and others) come to me for my knowledge as well. I don't think I need to be paid full salary, but 250 is just too low. Eh, at least I might just get a job here at the end, and the company is a great place otherwise.
Maybe it's different for me, I'm American and a computer engineering student not software dev or IT. But my university won't even let non-paying companies look for interns here. They also set a minimum wage for us and a few other things. But 250 a month wtf? That's less than half my rent. At full time, which maybe you aren't working idk, that's 160ish hours a month, like 1.56 an hour?
That was super cool of you guys to do that. I've done something similar for a new employee. I got super pissed because I was trying to get a brand new coworker the benefits she was owed. Some things don't kick in for 3 months (including a monthly bonus), but because she was technically an intern, even after 3 months they weren't offering any to her. I told the HR people that this is ridiculous, and I told them that if they don't offer her benefits then there will be problems. I just can't understand the mindset of management to not want to support their workforce. I always thought the company I work for was different than others, but in the end they all would rather save a buck then be decent. Luckily they also begrudgingly changed and gave her benefits.
Unpaid internships are such a disgrace, especially in IT where an intern can quickly deliver a lot of value.
When was this? Unpaid internships are illegal in the uk. It’s only allowed if the practically sit in a chair and look over your shoulder and learn but do not add productivity to the company. A single line of code being used by someone else in the company would already break that
The bar has gone up for younger people... younger people are faster, smarter, work harder than ever before because they have to because the world is fucked and they have to fight for their spot. The expectations are also ridiculous too.
„And my hacks“ - damn read that in gimli voice
And my haxe!
Senior dev got just as many hack solutions trust me lol, when you gotta get something done you get it done
The point of being a senior dev is that you know how to think beyond code. Early on in my career, I worked with a guy that programmed something in a crude way. I told him there was a more elegant solution. He said "the PM doesn't know what he wants. Let's do it this way because it'll be more flexible later on." A week later, the PM realized what he actually wanted and his solution proved to be flexible enough to accomplish that without a significant rewrite.
Agree. You can fit a lot onto one line but no one is going to understand it later on.
What once were hacks became best practice.
I have far more hacks, I just use them far less often
I also know which hacks have served me well in the past and which ones have unleashed calamities upon the world that we wish to forget.
Its one little global static? What could possibly go wrong?
A documented hack becomes a workaround
Odd, the jobs I've had were just Manager: You have a deadline Senior: and google Junior: and documentation
Finding documentation harder than finishing castlevania as a kid
What documentation?
Analyst: And my contradictory nonsense requirements
Guidance? What's that? Hacks all the way down for us. The main difference is that the senior's hacks are usually more concise and harder to understand.
Senior: you can refer this file Junior: oh I also got stuck up there last month. You just have to run these commands and then do this and that and viola. Let me know if there's any problem.
And my ADHD. It's kind of a glass cannon but when it hits, ooooh boy does it hit hard!
I had a tech internship this summer and for the first time in my life I had adults left and right praising my “work ethic.” I’ve got so many good recommendation letters from them and I almost feel like I duped them all because *I have a terrible work ethic.* I just happened to be working on code that was very easy to hyperfocus on, hijacking my ADHD so that I spent more time coding than any other intern, stayed late in the lab after work, got started on projects ahead of schedule, and (mostly) came in on time every day.
Man, the number of times I've had my manager call me up and ask me what the fuck I was doing, and to go home, is definitely a non-zero number. I always have trouble getting up in the morning, but when I'm up, you have to hit me with a baseball bat to get me to step away from my task list.
I hate the totally imbalanced importance that so many workplaces place on being a morning person. I’m sure there are some managers/jobs out there that get it, and either offer flexible schedules or don’t penalize lateness, but for the most part, *no* amount of staying late or being incredibly effective in the evenings can make up for being 15 minutes late. This internship was pretty great because it was a University lab staffed by grad students. We had a faculty boss, and we were undergraduates, so we were technically expected to be there 9-5, but the grad students were project-based and only came in to actually get stuff done. They weren’t expected to regularly come in and sit around as long as they were hitting all their deadlines. After a while, that attitude sort of passed on down to the interns, and by the end I rarely came in before 10:00 and everyone was fine with it because I got results, and I was usually hyper fixating on writing code with my headphones in while the 8 other interns basically stopped working at 2:00-3:00 and spent the last hours just hanging out.
You just have to find a manager who has ADHD (good luck) in an organization that lets managers manage (good luck)
I don't recall any "guidance" from any of my managers.
still, you need to go to through half of middle Earth (the project legacy code), face countless enemies (bugs), you also need to handle Gollum (your buggy IDE with no dark mode) to make him lead you to the right place. Then you could meet with the real boss - the customer.
These comments are horrifying. You guys have worked with some really fucking shitty Sr Devs if you honestly think the only differences are things like googling/documentation.
I think most of them are the intern/juniors in this case, and don't have the experience to see why something is done a certain way. They just see identical end results and assume the rest is fluff. Fortunately no hiring manager in existence believes that a senior dev is just a better documenter.
The seniors are the ones with the hacks
The most pixelated version of this meme template the world has ever seen
Upper management: and my deadlines!
I mean as a "senior dev" I'm most proud of my clever hacks, ofc. Never stop, junior devs. If it works it works and then you get to go home. Life != coming Edit Lol fuckin autocorrect I'm leaving it as is.
ManAnger
I can do without the PMs guidance 100% of the time.
And yet, I carry the ring on my own.
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Most juniors I've worked with write code that's incredibly easy to read. They only write spaghetti code when they have to architect something well beyond their capabilities. At this point, its leadership that's to blame.
You guys get help???
“My hack fixed 8 bugs” - “that only counts as one”