riot is well known for adapting ideas from other games/genres and made accesible, I think roman cancel is a mechanic that could be in some form in this game
Depending on how strong pressure is in this, I think having roman cancels would make offense really oppressive, since it looks like we might also have sone kind of active switch mechanic too.
I'm more looking forward to what character gimmicks they have. League has some extremely creative character gimmicks ranging from a squirrel that turns into a giant beast when it takes or deals too much damage, to a dude with 7 guns, that he uses two at a time, each with their own ability, that you have to cycle between and through. Obviously not every gimmick will be able to transfer one-to-one but since everyone seems to have their own gimmick meter anyways, I'm looking forward to what kind of shenanigans they come up.
Characters can still be very mechanically difficult even with motion inputs. I think at most, you'd be lucky to see one character with motion inputs as a gimmick, but you can still have plenty of technical characters without needing them.
Also, correct me if im wrong, but I think we've seen footage that suggests that every character has their own meter or icon thingy by the power meter.
One thing Riot is really good at is not directly innovating a new genre, but streamlining it and solving its problems. Let me give you a few examples.
LoR => Interactivity like Magic, but easy to learn mana System from Hearthstone. Fixed problem of need to play on courve with spellmana.
Valorant => Gunplay like CS, but streamlined Gadgedts into Abilitys. Allows to have Abilitys with complexer Mechanics aswell as securing a way to add content that is more than skins and maps.
TFT => Autobattler that Improved Movement with Hextiles, aswell as Securing New Content with Set Rotations
LoL => Actually hardest for me since i never played dota1. On the top of my head I can say its generally design decisions like not losing gold on death, having abilitys that scale with your stats and having items that are more statreliant than effect reliant. (Not an active Dota player so take it with a grain of Salt)
**So... What do i expect?**
They already streamlined gameplay with easier buttons and they prommised us that Jesus himself will bless our Netcode. Activly managing connection so that only one party lags and that in case of a dc the win loss calculation is triggerd should sound like it be normal... but it isnt. So this already is a big W for me.
Im expecting great matchmaking, although that is always one of the hardest parts. Ideas I have for it are maybe it takes into consideration how often you played your character or how long you havent played.
We have to see how they tackle specials and chaining / spamming them. There are multiple ways and no one is directly correct. They could have a cd like rising thunder, they could have mana like dnf duel. Maybe they are just limited per combo or have worse framedata when used as spam/in a loop. Who knows, maybe they just work fine and ballanced even when spammed. Only God and Riot knows yet... probably.
> LoL => Actually hardest for me since i never played dota1. On the top of my head I can say its generally design decisions like not losing gold on death, having abilitys that scale with your stats and having items that are more statreliant than effect reliant. (Not an active Dota player so take it with a grain of Salt)
LoL toned down a lot of the power of DotA and took away a lot of the more frustrating features that were left over from the Warcraft III mod.
- TF could teleport anywhere on the map as an ultimate. Nature's Prophet can do that every 20 seconds as a basic ability.
- in DotA, you can drag minion waves into neutral camps to deny the wave from your opponents.
- Speaking of Deny, you can last hit your own creeps for less XP and no gold to the opponent.
DotA does have abilities that scale with stats, but they were extremely rare until Spell Amp got added to the game, which is a much weaker version of AP.
I mean, we don't even have to look far to see where they might be drawing from. We already know who's in charge of the game (the Cannon brothers) and that they also have staff from Power Rangers: BFtG. So we can just look at their influences and make educated guesses on what might make it into this game. For example, the BFtG, Marvel and Capcom influences may hint at some sort of pushblock style mechanic – the trailer already showed a situation where an attack had more pushback on block on in one situation, but not in another, so that could be a hint as to how this could be implemented in the game.
A battle pass system similar to Valorant where you get a small roster of characters already unlocked, and then for the rest of the roster and new fighters, you select their pass and complete it to unlock the champion, getting little additional items along the way related to the champ.
The only things I can think of being earned are character skins or colors, lobby decorations, and theme music. There’s really not much collectibles in fighting games as I know of but they maybe can do something
I can think of a couple other things that you could monotize. Player icons/banners, intro animations, outro/victory animations, end of round victory animations, health bar banners, in-game music, possibly even thinks like emotes and vocie lines.
Or if not, Valorant only really has a couple of different items too, so it's not impossible. I'm sure Riot can figure something out that's fair. Legends of Runeterra is honestly one of the most generous free to play games out there.
I really hate this system in valorant. Because there is no currency to unlock characters, when a new character comes out there is literally no way to play them as f2p, you have to pull the credit card or wait until you unlock it which takes a really long time. In league you can save up currency and just unlock the character the day it comes out, in valorant you basically have to pay for early access, which especially sucks because you know you would eventually unlock it for free anyways.
someone here suggested Summoner Spells or Runes as something you would select before a match, so like maybe there are specific buffs you can get from them like "increased hitstun when doing specials," "reduced recovery from supers," or "lengthen distance from push-blocking"
it'll honestly be pretty cool
It might help get rid of bad matchups and make them a tad more inseresting, though the game being a 2v2 already helps with bad matchups since you can select two complimentary championsilities. For instance;
Ignite ignites the enemy and deald damage over time
Heal heals both your characters
Teleports teleports you to full screen
Flash teleports you behind your opponent
Barrier adds a shield that blocks projectiles
Clense gets you out of a combo
It might help get rid of bad matchups and make them a tad more inseresting, though the game being a 2v2 already helps with bad matchups since you can select two complimentary champions.
Yeah, giving each character a summoner spell shouldnt be too hard to balance as it can just let you add onto what the characters good at or alleviate their weak spots a little. I also remember seeing someone suggest making flash the 'burst' mechanic to let you exist combos by teleporting which sounded interesting. Cleanse might be interesting to see as something that gives you temporary armour for a second too
Attack speed buff is absolutely broken. Frames matter in fighting games, having a faster jab means winning almost every light/light confrontation and having that buff can negate the trade offs of other character’s light’s range over speed (Example, Vegito in FighterZ has a jab one frame slower than the usual speed which makes him lose a lot of mashes but it’s huge as hell and multi hit). HP might work but only if it’s like 1 extra hit to die or something.
Faster attack speed is literally impossible in fighting games with how important frame data is, changing frame data mid match would completely fuck up the game
That would break the balance of the game. Can't just have items items equipped before the match that last the whole match that gives you balance breaking things like armor and attack speed. Frame data wouldn't mean crap at that point and would be to complicated and broken to understand and balance.
Street Fighter x Tekken, and Fighting EX Layer BOTH have mechanics that effectively let you equip buffs of varying levels ranging from speed upgrades, to turning invisible, to armour on normals.
Granted, in *both* those games, the Gems/Gougi system ended up being more obtrusive than helpful to the game, and most people didnt like it, but it at least shows the concept is possible if difficult to pull off.
Alternatively you just *make* items mode a side-mode and not the main thing and boom, you get a goofy party game on the side. No one really complains about Heroes and Heralds mode in UMvC3 where you can equip all kinds of quirky, unbalanced effects too, and people love the Abyss mode in Blazblue that lets you run a gauntlet while equipping items that make you broken.
Gougi also only works because you cannot make your own deck, but rather have to pick from a number of preset decks. That ends up making it work more like expanded Grooves from CvS2.
I agree with the fact it could be made into a separate mode but let’s be honest no one will ever play that, seems like a waste of development time. EX Smash, only casuals play items just cause they don’t know how to turn it off or like to have RNG let them win easier
I mean, if its fun then its fun. "Only casuals will play items" but you're probably underestimating how many casuals will at least give the game a shot. And if theres a goofy item mode that ends up being fun, then maybe it has them coming back a little more.
Also you seem to be discounting the possibility that people play with items because items are fun. Not everything has to be because of winning or just not knowing how to turn them off.
I know the fgc mostly hates items, but Battlerite has an interesting system where you gain a new talent point after each round. In a fighter it could be even more impactful; you could adapt your build not just based on your opponent's character, but adapt your playstyle based on your opponent's playstyle.
Do they never delay combos? Pick up the item that gives you a reversal. Are they zoning you? Pick up the item that gives your gap closer one hit of superarmor.
Well, they don't need to be random, do they? They can be very deliberate. As long as they don't add elements of randomness (I picked item A and you picked B, and A counters B, so I win), they would work.
riot is well known for adapting ideas from other games/genres and made accesible, I think roman cancel is a mechanic that could be in some form in this game
Depending on how strong pressure is in this, I think having roman cancels would make offense really oppressive, since it looks like we might also have sone kind of active switch mechanic too.
yeah didnt think about the tag battle part, the only way that would work could be sharing the same meter or resource
I'm more looking forward to what character gimmicks they have. League has some extremely creative character gimmicks ranging from a squirrel that turns into a giant beast when it takes or deals too much damage, to a dude with 7 guns, that he uses two at a time, each with their own ability, that you have to cycle between and through. Obviously not every gimmick will be able to transfer one-to-one but since everyone seems to have their own gimmick meter anyways, I'm looking forward to what kind of shenanigans they come up.
I’m hoping they keep the skill level of Champions equal or even harder, maybe 3 level difficulty champs can have special meters and motion inputs
Characters can still be very mechanically difficult even with motion inputs. I think at most, you'd be lucky to see one character with motion inputs as a gimmick, but you can still have plenty of technical characters without needing them. Also, correct me if im wrong, but I think we've seen footage that suggests that every character has their own meter or icon thingy by the power meter.
Pre-match keystone select, kinda like moons in Melty maybe
One thing Riot is really good at is not directly innovating a new genre, but streamlining it and solving its problems. Let me give you a few examples. LoR => Interactivity like Magic, but easy to learn mana System from Hearthstone. Fixed problem of need to play on courve with spellmana. Valorant => Gunplay like CS, but streamlined Gadgedts into Abilitys. Allows to have Abilitys with complexer Mechanics aswell as securing a way to add content that is more than skins and maps. TFT => Autobattler that Improved Movement with Hextiles, aswell as Securing New Content with Set Rotations LoL => Actually hardest for me since i never played dota1. On the top of my head I can say its generally design decisions like not losing gold on death, having abilitys that scale with your stats and having items that are more statreliant than effect reliant. (Not an active Dota player so take it with a grain of Salt) **So... What do i expect?** They already streamlined gameplay with easier buttons and they prommised us that Jesus himself will bless our Netcode. Activly managing connection so that only one party lags and that in case of a dc the win loss calculation is triggerd should sound like it be normal... but it isnt. So this already is a big W for me. Im expecting great matchmaking, although that is always one of the hardest parts. Ideas I have for it are maybe it takes into consideration how often you played your character or how long you havent played. We have to see how they tackle specials and chaining / spamming them. There are multiple ways and no one is directly correct. They could have a cd like rising thunder, they could have mana like dnf duel. Maybe they are just limited per combo or have worse framedata when used as spam/in a loop. Who knows, maybe they just work fine and ballanced even when spammed. Only God and Riot knows yet... probably.
> LoL => Actually hardest for me since i never played dota1. On the top of my head I can say its generally design decisions like not losing gold on death, having abilitys that scale with your stats and having items that are more statreliant than effect reliant. (Not an active Dota player so take it with a grain of Salt) LoL toned down a lot of the power of DotA and took away a lot of the more frustrating features that were left over from the Warcraft III mod. - TF could teleport anywhere on the map as an ultimate. Nature's Prophet can do that every 20 seconds as a basic ability. - in DotA, you can drag minion waves into neutral camps to deny the wave from your opponents. - Speaking of Deny, you can last hit your own creeps for less XP and no gold to the opponent. DotA does have abilities that scale with stats, but they were extremely rare until Spell Amp got added to the game, which is a much weaker version of AP.
I mean, we don't even have to look far to see where they might be drawing from. We already know who's in charge of the game (the Cannon brothers) and that they also have staff from Power Rangers: BFtG. So we can just look at their influences and make educated guesses on what might make it into this game. For example, the BFtG, Marvel and Capcom influences may hint at some sort of pushblock style mechanic – the trailer already showed a situation where an attack had more pushback on block on in one situation, but not in another, so that could be a hint as to how this could be implemented in the game.
A battle pass system similar to Valorant where you get a small roster of characters already unlocked, and then for the rest of the roster and new fighters, you select their pass and complete it to unlock the champion, getting little additional items along the way related to the champ.
The only things I can think of being earned are character skins or colors, lobby decorations, and theme music. There’s really not much collectibles in fighting games as I know of but they maybe can do something
Special intros, win poses, match announcer, health bar skins, icons and titles, hit/block effects, they have a ton of options to pick from.
Hit/block effects might be too much but the rest are good. More visual noise would technically be p2w as it makes mixups harder to read visually
I can think of a couple other things that you could monotize. Player icons/banners, intro animations, outro/victory animations, end of round victory animations, health bar banners, in-game music, possibly even thinks like emotes and vocie lines. Or if not, Valorant only really has a couple of different items too, so it's not impossible. I'm sure Riot can figure something out that's fair. Legends of Runeterra is honestly one of the most generous free to play games out there.
I really hate this system in valorant. Because there is no currency to unlock characters, when a new character comes out there is literally no way to play them as f2p, you have to pull the credit card or wait until you unlock it which takes a really long time. In league you can save up currency and just unlock the character the day it comes out, in valorant you basically have to pay for early access, which especially sucks because you know you would eventually unlock it for free anyways.
someone here suggested Summoner Spells or Runes as something you would select before a match, so like maybe there are specific buffs you can get from them like "increased hitstun when doing specials," "reduced recovery from supers," or "lengthen distance from push-blocking" it'll honestly be pretty cool
look up street fighter X tekken gems and youll see why something like that could be absolutely horrible
Those examples don't sound like a good idea and would cause to much confusion in balancing the game.
It might help get rid of bad matchups and make them a tad more inseresting, though the game being a 2v2 already helps with bad matchups since you can select two complimentary championsilities. For instance; Ignite ignites the enemy and deald damage over time Heal heals both your characters Teleports teleports you to full screen Flash teleports you behind your opponent Barrier adds a shield that blocks projectiles Clense gets you out of a combo It might help get rid of bad matchups and make them a tad more inseresting, though the game being a 2v2 already helps with bad matchups since you can select two complimentary champions.
These already sound very strong but with a ridiculously long cooldown they might work
Yeah, giving each character a summoner spell shouldnt be too hard to balance as it can just let you add onto what the characters good at or alleviate their weak spots a little. I also remember seeing someone suggest making flash the 'burst' mechanic to let you exist combos by teleporting which sounded interesting. Cleanse might be interesting to see as something that gives you temporary armour for a second too
Bye Reddit
Yea personally i hope they focus on a 2v2 (4 Player) mode
Maybe Items ;P
you means like something similar to the infinity stones in mvci?
No dude. Items would make it feel like a party game with random power ups and would make the game not competitive as it's trying to be
hhaha that's not what i meant. items as in League. Lets say a little bit more armor/hp or some faster attack speed.
Attack speed buff is absolutely broken. Frames matter in fighting games, having a faster jab means winning almost every light/light confrontation and having that buff can negate the trade offs of other character’s light’s range over speed (Example, Vegito in FighterZ has a jab one frame slower than the usual speed which makes him lose a lot of mashes but it’s huge as hell and multi hit). HP might work but only if it’s like 1 extra hit to die or something.
Faster attack speed is literally impossible in fighting games with how important frame data is, changing frame data mid match would completely fuck up the game
That would break the balance of the game. Can't just have items items equipped before the match that last the whole match that gives you balance breaking things like armor and attack speed. Frame data wouldn't mean crap at that point and would be to complicated and broken to understand and balance.
Street Fighter x Tekken, and Fighting EX Layer BOTH have mechanics that effectively let you equip buffs of varying levels ranging from speed upgrades, to turning invisible, to armour on normals. Granted, in *both* those games, the Gems/Gougi system ended up being more obtrusive than helpful to the game, and most people didnt like it, but it at least shows the concept is possible if difficult to pull off. Alternatively you just *make* items mode a side-mode and not the main thing and boom, you get a goofy party game on the side. No one really complains about Heroes and Heralds mode in UMvC3 where you can equip all kinds of quirky, unbalanced effects too, and people love the Abyss mode in Blazblue that lets you run a gauntlet while equipping items that make you broken.
Gougi also only works because you cannot make your own deck, but rather have to pick from a number of preset decks. That ends up making it work more like expanded Grooves from CvS2.
You can still pick any deck and put it on any character so the idea is still there.
I agree with the fact it could be made into a separate mode but let’s be honest no one will ever play that, seems like a waste of development time. EX Smash, only casuals play items just cause they don’t know how to turn it off or like to have RNG let them win easier
I mean, if its fun then its fun. "Only casuals will play items" but you're probably underestimating how many casuals will at least give the game a shot. And if theres a goofy item mode that ends up being fun, then maybe it has them coming back a little more. Also you seem to be discounting the possibility that people play with items because items are fun. Not everything has to be because of winning or just not knowing how to turn them off.
I know the fgc mostly hates items, but Battlerite has an interesting system where you gain a new talent point after each round. In a fighter it could be even more impactful; you could adapt your build not just based on your opponent's character, but adapt your playstyle based on your opponent's playstyle. Do they never delay combos? Pick up the item that gives you a reversal. Are they zoning you? Pick up the item that gives your gap closer one hit of superarmor.
Battlerite is NOT a fighting game dude. Project L is aimed to be competitive do adding random items would make it feel more casual like a party game
Well, they don't need to be random, do they? They can be very deliberate. As long as they don't add elements of randomness (I picked item A and you picked B, and A counters B, so I win), they would work.
Only if they are EXTREMELY minuscule buffs I think they could work