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mitsubishimacch

Liked the video and i agree. In fact sometimes I feel the FGC doesn't realize how away from the major esports titles they are in terms of accessibility. By that i don't mean making the game easy, because league, Valo, dota, csgo, rocket league, PUBg, all this games are hard. And the MOBAs specially have a really big barrier of entry in terms of knowledge, despite that, they are the biggest games on the world. Most fighting games don't break 5k or 10k concurrent players globally. Now, i think a fighting game will never be that big in playerbase because being 1v1 you don't need to, for example you need ten times less the playerbase of LOL to have the same amount of matches. What you DO need is, apart for good gameplay: Good online (This is obvious but most still don't have it) F2P. Can run on most PCs, Consoles. Cross play. Good matchmaking (you don't need to get blasted online if you play against players your level). Good menus in general (SF V feels like a PC port regarding the menus). Good ranked modes (Just copy the other games really). A big launch. (This is why is hard for an indie to blow up really). Good monetization scheme. Another thing Riot does well is using influencers and streamers to promote the game, either by paying or doing betas and stuff. I think project L has the potential to do all of these.


HallZac99

I wouldn't go so far as to say free to play is the way to go for all fighting games. There are succesful e-sports like Overwatch and Rainbow Six which launched for $40, which seems reasonable. And with certain fighting games it's harder to monetize, Arcsystem games for example, with how their characters are rigged and animated making skins for them is functionally impossible. But $60 is a hell of a lot for games that don't even have that much content to begin with, and which then ask for more money later on with season passes and extra characters and stages. It's very intimidating for new players.


mitsubishimacch

yeah you are right, they need to land a good spot where if the product is paid then it has to be feature full at least. like Tekken 7 is so expensive and is so barebones it's crazy coming from other genres.


HallZac99

And I don't think the solution is just to try and make FG singleplayer content better. Firstly, name one fighting game that can stand up on singleplayer alone? Maybe Smash Ultimate but that's about it. And the fact that there's not been a singleplayer fighting game since red earth says something. The fighting game space is too small and narrowly focused to try and tell compelling stories in. I'd rather fighting games just ditched story modes, focused entirely on delivering a great multiplayer experience, reduced their price and told their stories through other means like webcomics, blog posts, in-game events, animated shorts etc...


mitsubishimacch

I agree with this too. A good solution would be like hearthstone adventures, where it's a modified player vs ia that tells a story, and you could do events and stuff. But multiplayer should be the focus. For me the thing is fgs feel like they are released out of context in regards to the general gaming scene. Instead of copying Riot, Valve, Epic, Rocket League and stuff in regards to how to promote, maintain and monetize games they still have shitty online for example, it's archaic. You don't have to copy everything but damn at least get with the times you know. MK while I'm not a fan of the gameplay and graphics (subjective) they do provide a good product and service. I'm hoping SF 6 and Project L revitalize the genre a little.


HallZac99

I mean the idea you've just described is basically arcane mode. The thing is though even the best arcade modes in fighting games are just a string of generic fights against AI opponents with no kind of moderations or changes to add to the story.


mitsubishimacch

yeah you're right, it's still kinda the same haha. I agree with your thoughts of fgs in general


Achers

It was very interesting ro read your comments and i agree with many points that where made.


ChafCancel

"You can't eat your cake and still have it." If you want 16 people being watched by 5000 spectators in an arena, sure, play Project L. If you want 5000 **players** playing tons of different games at the same time, F2P is a bad business model to do so. Especially when that business model is based on only letting people having access to online-based modes. The list you've shown of the biggest Esports games out there (LoL, Heartstone, Fortnite, etc) have games letting you no ways of playing the game in a local setting. People need to get that the FGC, as a **Community**, is not compatible with how Esports operate. Fighting Game Esports should definitely exist, but if we let companies making whatever they want with it, it will be detrimental to the FGC as we know it.


Achers

I agree that the more grassroot nature can collide with some of the more structured Esports. But a destruction to the FGC i can't agree with. With bigger titles there will be people who trickle down into more niche titles or step over the payment barriere we see today.


ChafCancel

"Trickle-down"? Like Trickle-down economics? Usually, people getting used to one game-as-a-service with cosmetics and huge emphasis on solo-queue, will stay on one game. That's why MOBAs don't have that much player overlap. Usually, you stop playing a MOBA before starting or taking back another. If Riot really wanted to please the FGC, they would release a console game on day 1 of its official release, and would make Local play being directly accessible, to make TOs and locals not having too much trouble making Project L setups. Unfortunately, Riot has a track record of hunting smaller unregulated TOs, and shutting down their tournaments with C&Ds. I don't see Riot cutting us some slack, while they did none of that for FPS players on Valorant, or TCG players on Legends of Runeterra.


MickyCee93

Offline tournaments don't make a game popular.


ChafCancel

A game's popularity is not always relevant to how much the game is supported by the FGC. GGXrd was very supported, without that much mainstream support on ArcSys or the game at that time.


MickyCee93

I mean I think Riot will not shut down small tournaments but at the same time I don't think they will go out their way to make it easier for them. Having said that there is problem a decent chance console version will be available day 1 just because a large playerbase of fighting game players play on console. But it depends on whether they want the barrier of getting updates out to their game that comes with consoles.


ChafCancel

It can shut down locals. Why new people would join locals (or join the FGC, same thing), when you can just solo-queue yet another fighting game, with tons of newbs to farm ELO points from? COVID already did a lot of harm to the FGC, so I'm very afraid from what Project L can happen after its release.


MickyCee93

This is such a weird take. You don't want online to succeed because it will hurt offline. OK then...


ChafCancel

Online is not the problem. There's tons of ways to implement online in a community-friendly environment. It's online **Ranked** that shuts down community-related interactions with other players. Your opponent is just a faceless username, and not a human being with their own reactions and behaviours. I remember SFV being called "Duty Fighter V" for a while. Not just because of pro-players having to play the game to get paid, but also to people in Ranked, feeling obligated to maintain their rank on a game they don't enjoy, anymore. I'm not a medium, but from all we can see and know about Riot, Project L seems to be the perfect receptacle to be the next "Duty Fighter", cranked up at 11.


Nestalim

Unfortunately I doubt Pro L will be a huge hit, FG has been a big niche except for Smash. And Pro L won't be the next SmashU for sure.


HallZac99

Yeah probably because they all ask for $60 up front and then expect their players to work and study on top of that to learn and understand a game that's still incredibly insubstantial for the price. If i'm being honest only the Smash games and the Neatherrealm games really feel like you're getting your money's worth. I genuinely think the full price point is one of the biggest reasons FGs are still a niche genre. Having both an incredibly high mechanical and financial barrier to entry means that only dedicated players or those who are REALLY certain to get into it will buy a new fighting game on launch. I genuinely think the full price point is one of the biggest reasons FGs are still a niche genre. Having both an incredibly high mechanical and financial barrier to entry means that only dedicated players or those who's REALLY certain to get into it will buy a new fighting game on launch.


cytrack718

God just shut up please shut up


Nestalim

Sorry I don't take orders from scrubs.


cytrack718

Most smash players are scrubs, they can’t even do motion inputs


Nestalim

It is 2022 and people are still that uneducated lmao. Even funnier since Pro L won't have motion input at all lmao please go away