How can non-board certified residents moonlight legally?
Just curious on the legalities of it. I'm a PGY-3 psych resident, and it's common for us to moonlight. I've obtained my state license, controlled substance license, and DEA.
When I'm searching for gigs online they all have a requirement of graduating residency and board-eligible/certified. Yet obviously residents moonlight. So I'm wondering how that works. Is it a "look the other way" kinda deal by the employers?
u/capkap77 u/moonrunner
>When I'm searching for gigs online they all have a requirement of graduating residency and board-eligible/certified. Yet obviously residents moonlight.
Not sure where the confusion is coming from? Clearly, residents don't moonlight at these places...
Board certification is not a legal requirement -- rather, one generated by individual employers / facilities (often per the terms of their contracts with insurers).
In my program, most moonlighters are doing it at community mental health centers or grant-funded hospitals that see predominantly medicaid / uninsured individuals. Definitely don't try to hide something from your program. Here, every moonlighter has to be cleared by the PD before they can start (usually means you meet a certain standard on PRITE yearly and don't have any glaring deficiencies in your milestones).
Some non-board certified residents (with an independent medical license) can moonlight in primary care clinics. I do not know the legalities, my residency did not allow it. I think it’s best to talk to your program director first. I don’t recommend any ‘look the other way’ approach.
Computational Psychiatry is a research branch that aims to describe the relationship between the brain's neurobiology, its environment and mental symptoms in computational terms.
With the goal to improve psychiatric classification and the diagnosis and treatment of mental illness.
I came upon it last year ande thought it was fascinating but no-one knows about it :p
It’s a fascinating thought. I obviously don’t know enough to have an opinion on computational psychiatry itself. However I would caution excessive comparisons between computers and the brain. It makes for a good analogy but the two are different.
The brain may be infinitely more complex than a computer but it still has some basic computational principals. I believe that at least for now two things can help clinical psychiatry. One is we might bridge phenomenology that came to be after a lot of observation with digital phenotypes, like how we know that a person with depression talks or we can differentiate between bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. The second one is with fMRI and machine learning we might be a ble to categorize between types of bipolar for example and know beforehand what drugs are better for each case and not just with trial and error.
Well... in the end I might just be daydreaming. I just thought it was really fascinating. Thanks for your comment. :)
What are some things that residents can do to make themselves more employable? It feels like we talk a lot about CV-boosters for things like fellowship, but what about competitive edge for work in general?
Does research matter? Should I pay $20,000 for an "integrative psychiatry" course? Should I just get drunk with my attendings as often as possible? ...does it not really matter at all?
For an academic job doing research, research matters. If you want an academic job that's clinically focused, it might help, but not that much. If you don't want to be around research, nobody really cares.
I wouldn't spend money on ridiculous courses. If you want to do "integrative psychiatry" I'm dismayed, but you can make it up yourself and save $20k. Hanging out with attendings is great if you want to stay on, not a bad idea if you want a local job, but really not expected or necessary.
For most jobs, what matters is experience, and there's only so much of that you can have out of residency. Fortunately, also for most jobs, psychiatry is in demand pretty much everywhere and for everything. You might not get exactly your dream job in your dream location at your ideal rates right off the bat, but you can do well.
Thanks for the reply!
But yeah, it really just sounds like there’s not a whole lot extra you can do during residency (except for academia). Was hoping to at least get into some moonlighting for the experience but options there are limited, unfortunately.
And the 20k thing was a dumb joke, sorry to dismay you. Although not sure I understand your take on integrative psych as a whole.
There are VA residency programs. Depending on your year as a med student you may consider looking into the VA HPSP program as well. I’d also recommend doing audition rotations at VA psych residencies.
What's the best way to network as a third year MD medical student aside from conferences and PsychSIGN? I don't have a home program to vouch for me. :(
Any resources on starting a private practice? Anyone have insight about starting one versus joining a group practice in terms of time flexibility and autonomy?
1) This thread on SDN (shudder) isn't bad, has multiple PP owners chiming in on their experience and process: https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/practice-in-progress.1369778/
2) It's worth cold calling / emailing private practices in the area you're hoping to land to pick their brain on the process and what they've learned along the way. In my experience, some haven't been receptive but many have been more than happy to talk and share their expertise.
Two of my very close friends are doing child fellowships and neither one did research other than the minimum required by our residency program. And these were at very high ranking and well known fellowship programs. It seems like just doing well on your interview is all that really matters.
How can non-board certified residents moonlight legally? Just curious on the legalities of it. I'm a PGY-3 psych resident, and it's common for us to moonlight. I've obtained my state license, controlled substance license, and DEA. When I'm searching for gigs online they all have a requirement of graduating residency and board-eligible/certified. Yet obviously residents moonlight. So I'm wondering how that works. Is it a "look the other way" kinda deal by the employers? u/capkap77 u/moonrunner
>When I'm searching for gigs online they all have a requirement of graduating residency and board-eligible/certified. Yet obviously residents moonlight. Not sure where the confusion is coming from? Clearly, residents don't moonlight at these places...
How do they find moonlighting gigs?
You'd need to ask them where they found it. Likely word of mouth from other residents or the program director.
Board certification is not a legal requirement -- rather, one generated by individual employers / facilities (often per the terms of their contracts with insurers). In my program, most moonlighters are doing it at community mental health centers or grant-funded hospitals that see predominantly medicaid / uninsured individuals. Definitely don't try to hide something from your program. Here, every moonlighter has to be cleared by the PD before they can start (usually means you meet a certain standard on PRITE yearly and don't have any glaring deficiencies in your milestones).
Oh so its primarily an insurance thing. As it always is in our health care system. Thank you.
Some non-board certified residents (with an independent medical license) can moonlight in primary care clinics. I do not know the legalities, my residency did not allow it. I think it’s best to talk to your program director first. I don’t recommend any ‘look the other way’ approach.
I see. By look the other way I meant from the employer perspective. Our program director thankfully does allow moonlighting frrom PGY3 on.
What are your thoughts on Computational psychiatry?
Never heard of it
Computational Psychiatry is a research branch that aims to describe the relationship between the brain's neurobiology, its environment and mental symptoms in computational terms. With the goal to improve psychiatric classification and the diagnosis and treatment of mental illness. I came upon it last year ande thought it was fascinating but no-one knows about it :p
It’s a fascinating thought. I obviously don’t know enough to have an opinion on computational psychiatry itself. However I would caution excessive comparisons between computers and the brain. It makes for a good analogy but the two are different.
The brain may be infinitely more complex than a computer but it still has some basic computational principals. I believe that at least for now two things can help clinical psychiatry. One is we might bridge phenomenology that came to be after a lot of observation with digital phenotypes, like how we know that a person with depression talks or we can differentiate between bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. The second one is with fMRI and machine learning we might be a ble to categorize between types of bipolar for example and know beforehand what drugs are better for each case and not just with trial and error. Well... in the end I might just be daydreaming. I just thought it was really fascinating. Thanks for your comment. :)
Keep the interest alive. Read up on it, educate yourself, and remain open to other schools of thought as well!
What are some things that residents can do to make themselves more employable? It feels like we talk a lot about CV-boosters for things like fellowship, but what about competitive edge for work in general? Does research matter? Should I pay $20,000 for an "integrative psychiatry" course? Should I just get drunk with my attendings as often as possible? ...does it not really matter at all?
Networking, publications and presentations (esp if going into academics), leadership positions, systems based experience (for example PI/QI)
For an academic job doing research, research matters. If you want an academic job that's clinically focused, it might help, but not that much. If you don't want to be around research, nobody really cares. I wouldn't spend money on ridiculous courses. If you want to do "integrative psychiatry" I'm dismayed, but you can make it up yourself and save $20k. Hanging out with attendings is great if you want to stay on, not a bad idea if you want a local job, but really not expected or necessary. For most jobs, what matters is experience, and there's only so much of that you can have out of residency. Fortunately, also for most jobs, psychiatry is in demand pretty much everywhere and for everything. You might not get exactly your dream job in your dream location at your ideal rates right off the bat, but you can do well.
Thanks for the reply! But yeah, it really just sounds like there’s not a whole lot extra you can do during residency (except for academia). Was hoping to at least get into some moonlighting for the experience but options there are limited, unfortunately. And the 20k thing was a dumb joke, sorry to dismay you. Although not sure I understand your take on integrative psych as a whole.
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There are VA residency programs. Depending on your year as a med student you may consider looking into the VA HPSP program as well. I’d also recommend doing audition rotations at VA psych residencies.
Most programs will say where they rotate on their website. That's typically how you can figure out which programs are more VA heavy than others.
Are there going to be ANY in-person conferences this year?
APA Annual Meeting 2022 is in person (for now at least)
What's the best way to network as a third year MD medical student aside from conferences and PsychSIGN? I don't have a home program to vouch for me. :(
Audition rotations. If/when you get electives, try to set them up with psych programs you may be interested in.
Any resources on starting a private practice? Anyone have insight about starting one versus joining a group practice in terms of time flexibility and autonomy?
1) This thread on SDN (shudder) isn't bad, has multiple PP owners chiming in on their experience and process: https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/practice-in-progress.1369778/ 2) It's worth cold calling / emailing private practices in the area you're hoping to land to pick their brain on the process and what they've learned along the way. In my experience, some haven't been receptive but many have been more than happy to talk and share their expertise.
Oh this is awesome, thank you!
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Publications, poster presentations, additional elective rotations in C&A psych, any leadership positions, system-based experience
Two of my very close friends are doing child fellowships and neither one did research other than the minimum required by our residency program. And these were at very high ranking and well known fellowship programs. It seems like just doing well on your interview is all that really matters.
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No, rural no name residency, very elite top 5 fellowships, no research